thank you for watching the katie phang show this morning. i'll be back next saturday and sunday at 7 am eastern. you can also catch original episodes of the show on the msnbc hub on peacock every thursday and friday. velshi starts right now. ck every >> >> good morning. it is, sunday july 24th. i am sam stein, sitting in for my good friend ali velshi. we begin this morning with a path forward for the case against donald trump. there are now a total of eight public hearings for the january six committee. over the course of those groundbreaking sessions congressional investigators have made the case that many now argue can and should be the basis of a criminal

investigation. they're a series of witness testimonies and visuals, the committee presents evidence that donald trump is not only aware of the violence taking place inside the capitol, but he was counting on it. he was encouraging it through social media posts, and refusing assistance from aids and family members to stop it because he was waiting to see if it would be successful in blocking the proper counting of electoral votes that would cement his loss. according to the testimony provided by the committee for multiple instances, after his incendiary speech at the so-called stop the steal rally on january six, after he told his followers to march to the capitol, donald trump tried to go to the capitol himself. he was only prevented from doing so by his own security detail, who refused to take him there. >> within 15 minutes of leaving the stage, donald trump knew that the capital was besieged in under attack. at 1:25 president trump went to

the dining room off the oval office. from 1:25 until 4:00, the president stayed in his dining room. just to give you a sense of where the dining room is situated in the west wing, let's take a look at this floor plan. the dining room was connected to the oval office by a short hallway. witnesses told us that on january 6th, president trump sat in his usual spot at the head of the table, facing a television hanging on the wall. we know from the employee that this tv was tunes to fox news all afternoon. and you can see fox news on the tv showing coverage of the joint session that was airing that day at 1:25. other witnesses confirmed that president trump was in the dining room with the tv on, for more than two and a half hours. there was no official records of president trump did while in the dining room. on the screen is the presidential call of from january 6th. as you can see, there is no

official record of president trump receiving or placing a call between 11:06 am in 6:54 pm. >> according to the committee, donald trump did not make a single phone call to military or law enforcement officials. supporters that he had sent to the capitol to have police officers. members of congress, enforcement officials and journalist, all fled from the riders. in some cases even dispatching messages to loved ones. he watched it unfold on fox news from the white house dining room. >> what explains president trump's behavior? why do they not take immediate action in the time of crisis? because president trump's plan for january six was to halt or delay congress's official proceeding to count the votes. the mob attacked the capitol quick, the mob attacking the capital quickly cause the evacuation of both the house and the senate. the counts ground to an

absolute halt. it was ultimately delayed for hours. the mob was accomplishing president trump's purpose. so of course he did not intervene. here is will be clear by the end of this hearing. president trump did not fail to act during the 187 minutes between leaving the ellipse in telling the mob to go home. he chose not to act. >> only once it became clear to him that riders were not succeeding the transfer of presidential powers, only then did trump ask his supporters to go home. he got in a bizarre video message that rationalized their attack on the capitol and assure them that both his love and his patronage. >> in the end, this is not as it may appear, a story of an action at a time of crisis. but instead it was a final action of donald trump's own plan to assert the will of the american people in four main in

power. >> on thursday, the january six committee made perhaps its strongest case yet for donald trump's personal responsibility for the violence that took place that today. but unearthing evidence and connecting the dots is as far as they can go. the million dollar question is, will the justice department take which is being served up to launch a criminal case of its own? the next guest is convinced that it will. hugo lowell is a congressional portrait at the guardian who has been following this closely. his latest piece argues that the committee has essentially set the stage for a criminal case against donald trump, arguing that the evidence laid by the committee shows that trump violated federal law that prohibits the obstruction an official proceeding, through both action and inaction. now is the amateur hugo lowell, congressional reporter for the guardian. and friend of the program. hugo, thank you for joining. us your latest pieces that the january six committee has got

the evidence, and laid out. federal prosecutors can use it as a framework for potential prosecution. i make the case for me. what do you think pushes it over the line from politically and morally damning evidence, to evidence of criminal activity that the deal and you can say yes, we left. >> it has always been clear that the most damning evidence of january six with respect to trump has been the obstruction of official proceedings. and that is through action and inaction. we know the action part. he's been sending around, did not want to calling optional guard. didn't want to call off the rioters in a tweet. but there is now a case through this committee that he also took concrete steps to make sure that the obstruction would take place, that it would be furthered. i think this is what is really interesting. he was calling senators, he was calling rudy giuliani. trying to get the senators to object to the electoral count. trying to get giuliani to help

him call the senators with the electoral count. we know that because of a voice mail came up after the capitol attacks, as far as it opened, still pushing this. even if we make the case that i did not think my tweets would have any effect on the crowd, well, the tweets only served to galvanize their further vote. they were not pulling them back. they want to push in the forward. so when you take above these things together, the thing you get is that he's really trying to push this conspiracy. >> is there any sign from the justice department that they believe what you are saying, that they think there is at least a reasonable evidence available for them to bring a case forward? or are they playing close to the chest? >> i think, you know, they are playing a really close to their chest. my work girl and has always been very cold about this. the justice department has not confirmed the existence of a criminal investigation.

that being, said two pieces of evidence that really show us that the justice morgan is looking very closely at the events of january six, as well as the fake electors scheme that they are already investigating, and the rally organizers that they already investigating with a grand jury. attorney garland said, earlier in the last month of the january 6th hearings, that he had asked the legal counsel at the justice department whether he was -- to open investigation into the former president. he was told he wasn't. and then more recently he said that a news conference, we are getting rather, philip actually. no prisoners above the law. nobody is above the law. we made that clear in the most recent -- significant. >> there is one pattern that has kind of popped up again and again and again, which is the absence of evidence. whether deliberately or not. serving the text messages, presidential call logs, daily giant diary from january six. even the photographer being unable to take voters of the president about today. you talk about that pattern of

evidence, the loss of peace. it presents, objectively, a shady picture. but it does not present a criminal one. that is a big question. if you are the doj and you are looking at, that would you do about this evidence loss? this factor into your decision-making? how so? >> -- shows evidence of a crime. but i think it's certainly points to in the direction. gives you the basis for opening a criminal investigation. over this 187 minutes of the capitol attack, we have no official white house voters. we have no more detailed records. of course, for some reason we have hours in the hours of details missing from that case. we have no injuries in the white house potential ban. the only way we can reconstruct any of that is to go back to somebody like rudy giuliani, looking at his call records, see that most are speaking to the president. and you are speaking to the

present at the most crucial times in the capitol attack. so i think when you see all of it is going on at the white house, and you also see that the secret service text messages are missing from this crucial days, and days after the capitol attack can back that up the message if they really want to, but they did not. >> all right. hugo lowell, i don't know when you are going to do next. go back to get bed or get your next scoop. probably the latter. congressional party for the guardian, thank you so much. joining me next is tim o'brien, -- executor at bloomberg, and author of the biography, trump nation, the art of being the donald. perhaps one of our foremost trump all adjusts. president trump has only become more urgent, arguing that the comments on january six very much for real his character. a lazy by the inter as he said, -- spends a lifetime making shady business deals. toss this on employees when his businesses failed.

tim, a pleasure to talk to you this morning. thank you so much. in your piece you write trump's conduct on the six is true to form, consistent with his character. you argue, quote, nobody should be surprised that, trump after losing his reelection bid, dry to burn things down rather than act as a responsible steward of the presidency and public interest. anybody familiar with trump's pensions for violence and revenge should prevent anybody from recognizing the celebratory of what he tried to engineer on january six. trump spent decades warming up for january six. all right. you do know trump better than most journalists. tell us what you know about trump from his history, from the man himself, that makes it on surprising that he would do this. that he would find himself in the middle of this attempted coup, basically. >> you, know sam, you can understand donald trump usually through two legends. -- and self preservation.

what he has denied either he will do anything he can to get his way. there is a long history of him lacking any kind of empathy, or sympathy, for people affected by either his band deal making as a businessman, or malfeasance as a public official. he ran his atlantic city casinos for a long, time horribly, without any regard for his impact on the employees and investors. residents of atlantic city. he spoke about racism and racial animosity during the central park five. that scandal. when you waited into this debate about whether the five young men of color had actually assaulted a white female jogger. as it turned out, evidence showed they had. and trump nonetheless decided to put himself in the middle of the -- to get attention for himself. at the expense of other people's well-being. and then nobody enters the presidency. there were myriad examples of

him refusing to exercise responsible powers in his office. even when he knew it was hurting other people. probably the most obvious example of that was the response to the covid-19 pandemic. when it landed, he denied existed. he cared more about his impact on the economy and the electoral process, then the public health of millions of americans. so it is a roll up to january 6th. it is to speak in november of 2020. i do not think anybody should admit they present is going to do everything he can do to essentially burn the house down. and on january six he did not care of police officers were endangered members of congress were endangered, people on the key lifts and ultimately democracy. >> one thing that i am struck by is that despite all of this, all of the biographical details that you are laying out, the contemporaneous evidence that

has been presented, trump defenders will say that there is no smoking gun. it is no harris say, no emails, no tax, no voice mail recording where he says, yes commit a violent act, commit a coup, storm the capital, off my vice president. that might just be because he's off the record, let me put that in there. but it might also because this is a pattern for trump or he constantly leaves a little wiggle room for himself so that he can deny any culpability for the situations. that's a great question, donald trump has this reptilian ability to survive anything. he's not a sophisticated man, he's ignorant of a lot of things. what he really focuses on is not leaving anything behind that would be damning about his own behavior. he famously didn't use email, i think that was one reason, when he was a businessman. he has avoided trying to create a public record behind him. this issue, as it pertains to prosecution, comes down to

whether or not merrick garland, the federal government, or anyone else looking at donald trump's criminal acts, that he knew he did, he had criminal intent, which is often a high hurdle for prosecutors, and that he committed a crime, that there were crimes, and that there were obvious laws that he broke. we have all of that, i think, at this stage. the january six narrative has shown that you can put together a very detailed account of what trump did and convince the american people that what he did was criminal. >> right, the other thing that's of characters that he's just not -- by any of this. he watches outtakes on the january 7th speech, he refuses to say the election was over. you know, now, we're talking about white? to know half years later? a year and a half year later, sorry, my math is terrible. trump is still repeating this idea, election was stolen, election was stolen, he's hinting at another run for president in 2024, i'll play

the sound clip. >> i ran twice, i won twice, and did much better the second time than they did the first, getting millions more votes in 2020 than we got in 2016. and likewise, getting more votes than any sitting president in the history of our country by far. and now, we may have to do it again. >> so, tim, very quickly, is this a cell phone prophesy? he can't admit fall, and then asked to run again for office to protect himself from whatever investigation whether state based orgy og de? >> yes, it is, i think the larger problem is that if he does run or doesn't run at all, trump isn't gonna be alive and well for us whether it's in the person of ron desantis, or ted

cruz. trump has shown that you can soak up white nationalism and conspiracy theories to convince people to chase these kinds of issues. other politicians have learned back from him. this isn't going away, we have a lot of work to do. >> thanks, tim o'brien, really appreciate you swing by ensuring or incite. still ahead on velshi, he may have a dean x to his name, but it doesn't always look that way. we'll get into what's going on with senator joe manchin by talking to a man who is one of his top advisors for nearly a decade. later, it's not just the president has testing positive for the highly contagious covid sub variant, cases are on the rise nationwide. next, a mysterious case of the secret service missing text messages. e of the e of the secret service messages if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand.

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secret service after the recent revelation that the agency deleted text messages from around the time of the capital insurrection. those text messages were erased as part of a pre planned device replacement program, despite the fact of the homeland security's inspector general requested that the records be kept as part of an inquiry into the insurrection. when this recently became public, the january six committee subpoenaed the secret service for the missing records, but the secret service says it's unlikely that the deleted messages will ever be recovered. well, now, a criminal probe has

been launched by the homeland security's office of the inspector general, which is reportedly known about the secret services missing phone records since february. this comes at a time when screening has intensified. following a blockbuster january 6th hearing in late june, it featured the explosive testimony from former white house aide, cassidy hutchinson. hutchinson testified about a dispute between former president donald trump and his secret service detail on the day the insurrection as trump reportedly ordered his security detail to take him to the capitol and they refused. for more on this, i am joined by the one, the only, carol lending, she's a pulitzer prize -winning investigative reporter from the washington post, focusing on white house and government accountability. she's also the author several bestselling books, including zero fail, the rise and fall of the secret service, and i alone can fix, it donald j trump's catastrophic final year. so many books, carol.

carol, you reported that the homeland security's inspector general has known about these deleted texans february. on top of that, you are in the washington post that they quote, also prepared in october 2021 to issue a public alert that the secret service and other department divisions were stonewalling on requests for records and text surrounding the attack on the capitol, but did not do so. all right, would you make of the timing of this? they've known about these latex for months, only now have they made it publicly known. is there a reason that this is all coming out now? is it just tied to the january six committee hearings? >> it's great to be with you this morning, sam. you're asking exactly the right questions. of course. first off, the inspector general is somebody, james qatari, who is a trump appointee and has been under criticism for years because he blocked investigations that would've been embarrassing to

the trump administration and to the president when he was running for reelection. most notably to me, he blocked two investigations that looked at how, that would have looked at how the secret service enabled donald trump's sort of political shenanigans. one, running covid rallies in creating superspreader's before we had a vaccine in 2020, in ways that violated safety protocols, security protocols, and endangered the american people that he was trying to have reelect him. also, this blocked an investigation into the secret services role in enabling donald trump's forceable hearing of lafayette square on june one, that horrible moment when tear gas and rubber bullets were released on these folks. so -- sorry, go ahead. >> i just kind of curious, this is a thing that i don't feel like we have any answers, does

the secret service men have a policy to regularly backup its records and data? isn't that under the law that they have to abide by? >> they absolutely do, sam. there is a policy which we've been re-reading and re-reading, it's very much a boiler plate for the federal government and the department of homeland security. the problem with this reset of the phones that happened in january 2021, it's extremely suspicious to everyone because, why wouldn't you take extra care, even if you had a swiss cheese policy, or an imperfect policy, why wouldn't you take extra care to preserve records of one of the moments you know is already under investigation by multiple congressional committees and the federal government? i mean, remember, the department of justice wasn't investigating donald trump on january 7th, but they were investigating all of the people who engaged in felonies and who

were storming the capital. so, if you knew that, why would you delete this stuff? i have to mention something, i'm not trying to be scary, but i think one of the problems is, a lot of the individuals who held the raids in this decision where trump supporters. they tried to pretend that they were objective civil servants, but they were trump supporters. i hope we'll have the story soon about exactly that. >> well, it kind of bleeds into this next question i wanted to ask, which is, from your current reporting, the past, however many days or weeks we've known about this issue, what is the mood right now inside the secret service? to the top ranks understand that they have what is, in essence, objectively, a credibility problem on their hands? >> well, gosh, you know, the directors on his way out, tony ornato, the fellow who the president installed, again, as his enabler inside the white

house while he was working at the secret service making him a political advisor, that persons on his way out. the leadership of the secret service is a big question mark. right now, there is a lot of jockeying for people who want to become the next director. unfortunately, i think they recognize the credibility problem, but as usual, the secret service is just trying to patch it up for the day rather than really make holistic changes and really focus on the noble agency they used to be in rebuilding the. >> all right, carol, shamelessly going for the perfect tense score once again. i'm sure you'll get it. thank you very much for joining me this morning, i really appreciate it. >> i love being with you, see you, sam. >> all right, president biden tested positive for covid-19 three days ago. looking likely that he contracted the highly contagious variant. he's far from the only one, cases on the rise across the nation. what you need to know about this and the next wave, coming up next.

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full day of isolation after testing positive for covid-19 on thursday. according to the president's physician, dr. kevin o'connor, it's likely that biden has contracted the highly contagious omicron sub variant, ba.5. his symptoms now include body aches, sore throat. says some of biden's other symptoms, like a runny nose, and a cough, have become, quote, less troublesome. according to world health organization, united states had the world highs number of new cases. considering how many cases go unreported due to at-home testing or people simply being undiagnosed. the cdc reports that the u.s. is averaging over 127,000 new cases per day, with over 165,000 new cases come in friday alone. 70% of which are the ba.5 sub

variant. joining me now is doctor which a block stock, msnbc medical contributor and founder and ceo of advancing health equity. doctor blackstock, thank you so much. the president is said to have ba.5, it's spreading like wildfire. it's come for 75% of all new cases. how protected from the sub variant or those of us who have been vaccinated and boosted? >> good morning, sam. thanks so much for having me. so, people should know that the current vaccines are directed towards the wild type virus, this is the original virus from the year 2000. well these vaccines are still protective against the variants, hospitalization, and death, they're not so much against infection. typically, what we're seeing is about four months after someone gets busted, they are more susceptible to infection. we saw that with president

biden, he got boosted back in march, and so he would get an infection now is more contagious variant, it's, you know, it's quite predictable. that's why we still need masking and other protective measures because the variant is still, one, contagious and able to evade community, both infection acquired and vaccination acquired. >> right now, the guidance as i have understood is that if you received a booster shot, you're told to get a second booster. if you're of higher risk category or if you're over 50 years old. that group has some protections. the rest of us, the under 50 crowd, should we, you know, go out and get a second booster shot? should we wait, i know we're not supposed to, but let's be honest, should be wind until the fall where modified vaccines comes out? >> right, right now we don't have any data that shows second booster for people under 50 would be particularly affective

at preventing hospitalization and death. you know, i do know some people, they've traveled, so, they wanted to get that second booster, and they have. i can't say that i necessarily recommend that. what we have planned is for this fall to have omicron specific boosters. that is what people under 50, if they're generally healthy, should be waiting for. otherwise, these vaccines are still operating quite quite well. if you're under 50, you should have that one booster, over 50 should be double boosted. the vaccines are performing quite well. people should be aware of that. >> i'm on my fourth booster shot, just to be clear. i'm not on my fourth booster shot. i want to go back to something you said earlier, which is mask up, right? early in the pandemic this was the obvious thing to do. if you're an indoor setting, especially surrounded by a lot of people, you wore a mask. right now, the federal government is not actually encouraging indoor masking as a policy.

i mean, it doesn't formally. even after the presidents diagnosis, the white house notably said they were not gonna change their protocols or their advice. do you think that's a missed opportunity? should we be telling people or requiring people to adopt indoor mask in certain settings? >> yes, sam, i'm grateful you brought that up. it's something that i have been ringing the alarm about for the whole pandemic. especially during surges, people need to mask up. if you're in an indoor setting, also now, with this more contagious variant. if you are outdoors in a crowded area, you still should get masked up. that's what i think these covid policies are covid protections and public health measures that were lifted over the last few months have had a really profound effect. they're one of the reasons why we're seeing an increase in cases. you have a more contagious variant and we're lifting mask protection. i think people need to understand that it may be that temporarily during surges, you may have to mask up indoors.

that messaging, as you pointed, out it's incredibly important and could save lives. >> do surgical masks, i mean, your assessment of them is that they're effective? just a plain surgical mask? >> no, so, right now this more contagious variant, people should have and 95, -- or kf94 mask's, those are the most protective. those are great masks at this time. surgical mask or cloth mask at this time is an adequate. >> all right, -- doctor, thank you so much. really appreciate it. on a quick programming note, make sure to stick around after velshi. doctor anthony fauci will be joining my good friend, jonathan capehart, msnbc's the sunday show. they'll talk about president biden's recent covid diagnosis, and give the latest on the pandemic as cases rise in the u.s.. watch the sunday show with jonathan kaye this morning at 10 am eastern. later in the afternoon, simone sanders will be joined by white house chief of staff ron klain

for a one-on-one interview. you can catch simone, both the person and the program, today -- at msnbc. still ahead, the velshi banned book club, have you heard about bend camp? if not, you're about to find out. right after the break we'll head to texas. different kinds of rioters are taking on book bans, and they're taking them on together. they're taking them on together (cool guy) $30...that's awesome. (dad) yeah, and it's from the most reliable 5g network in america. (woman) for $30 a line, i'm switching now! (mom) yeah, it's easy, you can keep (geek friend) we're already here! (vo) the network you want. the price you love. only from verizon. are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh waaaay longer

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from their shelves. nbc's sam buck has more from austin texas. >> summer might be a time some kids take a break from books. >> this past year, our schools removed but 11 books to her classroom libraries. >> not this summer, for a group of high school students in austin who see urgency in discussing this literature. >> you'll be very shocked how many of these books that we've read, that have become some of our favorites. >> literally taken out of their classrooms. >> if you had to say, what do you think is the commonality that connects all of the books that are banned? >> it's very much fear driven, being afraid and uncomfortable, having conversations with their children about the subjects in these books. >> this forum, sponsored by the austin public library and book people, the largest independent bookstore in texas, it's called banned camp, it is really struck a chord. >> our local community members reached out to us to see why we could do, what voice that we

had, in preventing this from happening in our local schools. >> the answer, the band section at the bookstore, drawing titles or move from schools across the country, including everything from an indigenous peoples history of the united states to novels like lawn boy, the journey of a biracial gay adult, flagged by some schools for being sexually explicit. >> with voices are being squashed? but voices are being elevated? >> when i look at the list of the books being challenged currently, it is a majority of bipoc voices, people of color, and queer voices. people who identify as lgbtq plus. >> the state of texas passed along 2021 that initially focus on reviewing any literary content having to do with race, expended to human sexuality. one of the supporters, matt krause, says the point is age-appropriate content for students and historical accuracy. >> i don't think anyone's english and talk about anything we've done wrong in the past, especially in terms of race, i

think we are saying having a stilted view or tainted view of those race relations, we don't want that in there. >> compiled a list of about 850 books sent to texas school districts as a guideline for review. more than half dealing with lgbtq topics, also race and sex education. >> how did you come up with 150 or so books that are on that list? >> yeah, i appreciate that question, we've been very consistent, ever since that come out with the nature of the investigative committee, we don't indulge the inner workings of how it came up with that. >> what percentage of those books, if you had ballpark, have you read yourself? >> not very many of those, again, you don't need to read them to know that they either have to deal with race or sexuality. >> they're trying to keep these kids locked in a box, like, i'm part korean, so i've had to deal with a lot of the different racial stuff that is in books like these. >> many students at this meeting belong to the leander

independent school district, they told nbc news that they -- predicting the texas law, bringing more than 100 stakeholders, including parents, educators, and students to the table. though not the students for the review of these books out of an abundance of caution for material that could be inappropriate. the district poll or paused 16 titles, five were actually reinstated. here's a look at some, including the handmaid's tale, removed from classrooms, but not libraries. they're written summaries of why, sex and racism featured prominently in those reports. >> do you consider it's happened in your school district to be censorship? >> entirely. it is people being afraid of different philosophies, different ideas, different, just, differences. >> there is people empower above us, i mean, the school board, state level, everywhere. they are taking away education material from us. it's something that some people don't exactly understand or comfortable with. they're taking it away for all

students. >> thanks to nbc's sam brock for that report. if you're loyal viewer, you know about the velshi banned book club. he may be wet, but he planned ahead, he'll host the next book meeting in our next hour. we'll hear from jacqueline woodson, author of brown girl dreaming. it's an autobiographical coming of age story with two distinct backdrops. segregated greenville south carolina and new york city. that's coming up on velshi. you certainly will not want to mess it. coming up as well, as a democrat, do they stand away in the democratic agenda? what's up with joe manchin? we'll get insight from one of the few people that might actually have an answer. senior adviser, jonathan kott. adviser get a dozen shrimp for only one dollar with any steak entrée. only at applebee's. ♪ ♪,

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because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose. with just over 100 days until the midterm elections, things are, well, not looking good for democrats. control the white house, the senate, the house since the 2020 election. it's got some big wins, it's undeniable they failed to deliver on major promises. much of that gets put on the shoulders of one senate democrat who has consistently pushed back on the party's ambitions. senator joe manchin has tanked major legislation and proposals that president biden and other democrats ran in 2020. it is for the people act,

manchin came out against this sweeping legislation that would protect voting rights for everyone across the nation, proposed more modest compromise instead. voting rights finally made it to the senate floor, blocked by republicans. democrats had the chance to -- manchin voted against it. he's opposed efforts to pass parental leave, he has scheduled an expanded child tax credit that lifted children and families out of poverty. just recently, manchin was the only democrat in the senate to vote against codifying the right of abortion to federal law, though he said he supports that very right. then there's the build back better act, it's all washington to talk about for the past year. president biden first unveiled the plan in march of 2021. today, july 2022, more than a year later, the legislation is still on ice. that's largely because manchin has whittled it down again and again and again. just this last week, manchin delivered another -- to the act, saying he would not

-- climb in tax provisions to the bill. what gives? could anything have been done differently to get his vote. joining me now to answer those questions is someone who has been described as the, quote, manchin whisper. i don't know if he wants that description, but he has it. jonathan kott served as a senior adviser for the senator from 2013 to 2022, he's also democratic strategist, a founder of majority makers. jonathan, just a straight question for you to start the day off, are you at all surprised by what you're seeing from your former boss? >> no, not at all. this is who he's been since the day i met him. he focused on what he thinks is best for west virginia, and what he thinks is best for the country. you can see -- he's also concerned about inflation, something he's been talking about, you know, for over a year. in fact, people are making fun of him when he was talking about it last year. i think he's been proven somewhat right on it. so, i think he takes the same approach that he did when i met

him in 2013, he looks to the bill, he says, does this help west virginia? wants to find a way to get it done, he also wants to find a way to get it done in a bipartisan way, he does think that's the best way to get solutions for the country. he just believes that to be true and he likes working that way. i think it's the former governor in him. so, no, i'm not surprised by it at all. >> to pick up on that point you made, will it be good for west virginia, you told the daily beast that in the first few weeks of working for joe manchin he told you, quote, buddy, if i can't go home explain, it i can't vote for it. so, democrats say, okay, aren't you voting against your constituents interests by not addressing climate change? by and mixing things like the child tax credit, which has lifted thousands of west virginians out of poverty? do west virginians actually have some fealty to the senate filibuster. i mean, if you talk about provincial interests, wouldn't the argument be made that in fact west virginia would be better off with some of these policies? >> i think he is not opposed to

the policies, he wants to do them in the right way, he wants to make sure we're paying for them over ten years. he doesn't want to do gimmicks, will have a short term one that's two years, we'll have one of four years, will pay for it through this credit for six years, he wants to get it done in the right way. he's very concerned about it. i think west virginians talked to him on a regular basis. he goes home, he's out in the public as much as he can be, he talks to them, [inaudible] he's hearing directly from them. i think he takes that and goes back to. i would point out he sits in robert byrd seats, but there's some allegiance to the filibuster, there's belief in, it believes that this actually good for the country. >> i don't want to bore people to filibuster conversation. i will say this, on the gimmick issue, you are right, then there's the consistency matter, he has signed off, according to reporting, another to your extension of aca, affordable care act subsidies, that is a

violation of the ten-year window that he wanted. do you think he's been completely consistent on these demands that you're articulating? >> i think he's been as consistent as he can, be there sometimes where you just can't do things the way he wants them to get done. he thinks that making sure that the premiums don't rise for west virginians as important. finding a way to do that in the most, you know, fiscally responsible way is what he's trying to do. i think that's why you're gonna see an extension of it. i'm sure he would like to do it in the ten-year window that he originally proposed, i just don't think the money is there for. he's tactical unreasonable out it. >> got you, look, putting aside whether you think he's consistent or not, it's working, right? this guy is deeply popular, in red state of west virginia, a poll taken, first quarter this year shows he has an approval rating of 57% from all voters in the state. okay? all voters, that's a red state.

over the last, year he's doubled his approving rating over republicans to 69%. obviously, he sees these numbers, i guess it's a two part question. one, do you think these numbers he internalizes them and uses them as a justification for his approach? to, those republican numbers, do you think that's an enticement for him to potentially switch parties and run as a republican down the road? >> no. one, i don't think he looks at polling numbers. i know he doesn't. or he doesn't he doesn't care. he goes through so many, talks to voters, that is the poll he takes every day. as far as switching parties, i know there have been story after story after story. every year somebody says he is a west virginia democrat, has been his entire life. i cannot see a world where he switches parties. if he was going to, we switch parties in 2018 when donald trump was president, just won

west virginia by 43 points. but he is not. he is not going to do that. >> we will pin this video and replay asked to show it to all our audience. jonathan, thank you so much for joining us, really appreciated. still ahead, and other -- we will have the banned book club soon enough. another hour of velshi is coming up next. hour of velshi i coming up next coming up next one up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains. any further questions? uh uh! one up the power of liquid with tide pods ultra oxi. we hit the bike trails every weekend shinges doesn't care. i grow all my own vegetables shingles doesn't care. we've still got the best moves you've ever seen

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