it's the "wall street journal," said the same thing after our hearing thursday night. i'm going to continue to be guided by making sure i do my duty and making sure the american people understand the truth. >> republican liz cheney had a lot to say over the weekend about former president trump and her work with the january 6th committee. meanwhile, more signs from mike pence that he's trying to breakaway from his former boss. the pair were on separate stages this weekend in arizona. plus, no sick days for president biden. he was staying busy at the white house while recovering from covid. we'll have the latest on his health. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, july 25th. i'm jonathan lemire. joe, mika, and willie all have the morning off, but fear not, we are in good hands. we have former aide to george w. bush white house and state department, elise jordan. we have eddie glaude jr.

richard haass. and nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. also with us, the founder of the conservative website, charlie. liz cheney, one of two republicans serving on the committee, went on fox news yesterday to defend the committee's work. here's how she responded to a question about why capitol police weren't better prepared for the attack. >> it's an entire focus of the investigation. you will see in our report. you'll likely see in upcoming hearings, so it is certainly something we're going to be focused on. but what we aren't going to do, brett, is blame the capitol police, blame those in law enforcement for donald trump's armed mob that he sent to the capitol. kevin mccarthy decided not to participate in the committee, that, somehow, the house of representatives cannot investigate the single worst

attack on the capitol since the war in 1812. >> cheney discussed the committee's interest in interviewing ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas. >> the committee is engaged with her counsel. we certainly hope that she will agree to come in voluntarily, but the committee is prepared to contemplate a subpoena if she does not. i hope it doesn't get to that. i hope she will come in voluntarily. we've certainly spoken with numbers of people who are similarly situated in terms of the discussions that she was having, that you've mentioned, so it is important for us to speak with her. as i said, i hope she will agree to do so voluntarily, but i'm sure we will contemplate a subpoena if she won't. >> ginni thomas sent several text messages to mark meadows, trump's former chief of staff, questioning the results of the 2020 election. she also exchanged emails with trump's lawyer, john eastman, who pushed an illegal plan to overturn the election.

and she sent emails to almost 30 lawmakers in arizona, calling on them to help overturn trump's loss in that state. last month, thomas responded to speculation that the committee would call her to testify, saying, quote, i can't wait to clear up misconceptions. i look forward to talking to them. her lawyer, though, has pushed back against voluntarily talking to the panel. asking lawmakers to give, quote, better justification for her testimony. meanwhile, cheney and other members of the committee commented on whether they plan to make a criminal referral to the justice department about former president trump. >> there is a massive difference between i'm going to prosecute the last administration for political vengeance and not prosecuting an administration that literally attempted a failed coup. that is a precedent i'm way more concerned about. >> i sure as hell hope they have a criminal investigation at this point into donald trump. i have no direct knowledge of

the status of their investigations, but what i'd say is i can tell the department of justice is watching our hearings closely. >> the committee has not decided yet whether or not we'll make criminal referrals. that's something we take very seriously. and i would also say the department of justice certainly is very focused, based on what we see publicly, on what is the largest criminal investigation in american history. >> members of the committee fanning out over the weekend on television, a couple days after they make the primetime case, elise, wrapping up at least this section of their hearings. give us your assessment. did they do that, and what would it mean if the department of justice did take this step? >> there was plenty of there there to these hearings. i follow this as closely as anyone watching this show, and i was surprised by some of the revelations and just reliving it in real time and remembering the fear of that day, of january 6th, of the capitol under siege,

was just so powerful. you can see where it's had slight impacts so far, perhaps deadening donald trump's appeal just a teensy little bit with his most active supporters. and so i do think it made a difference. i think this month of lag time is going to be an interesting window to see what happens with some of the primaries and donald trump and his decision to get into the race, whether he announces. but they need to pick it up again in september because there's still plenty of unanswered questions. >> richard, there are two audiences here. there were, of course, the merrick garland department of justice, but also, as elise said, republicans. polls say this has had a little bit of an impact. trump is still the favorite in 2024, let's not sugar coat that, but his popularity dipped some. do you think the other audience, department of justice, were listening? >> obviously, the committee had access to material they haven't had access to. it is why they requested all of the transcripts. i think it is a complicated set of calculations for them, about whether they want to take it to

that point, whether they're worried about a jury trial, whether he could -- you could ever find a jury that would convict him. i think it is a real question for the country, whether these hearings are better, jonathan, as what you might call a civics education to influence the country. most important might be independents, people who might vote in a general election, rather than republican primaries, whether that's the most important. or whether you think it's the legal aspect of this. i'm unpersuaded. not being a lawyer, it's easy for me to talk. but that the legal path is necessarily the might important, but it might be the political path where the hearings are most important. >> the committee says they'll have a hearing when they put out a preliminary report. in the intervening month, liz cheney is facing a primary in wyoming. she's, in ways, become the face of the committee, a republican, obviously opposing trump. she's down in the polls. what will it mean, what does it tell us if, between now and when we see the committee again,

she's defeated for her re-election bid? >> let us know the problem isn't simply donald trump. this is throughout the country, right? we have pockets of the country that actually agree with trumpism, and it's evidencing itself in our politics. richard said the politics are important, yes, but the rule of law is also important. if it turns out that there is an individual or an office, the presidency, that is above the rule of law, what happens downstream? i think the question around donald trump that i think the committee laid out very clearly, and even the question around ginni thomas, right, what do we do with these folks who believe that they stand outside of the sphere of the rule of law? how does that then play out among everyday, ordinary folk who, in some ways, bear the burden of the rule of law, in some ways? >> i'm just not sure we're there yet. again, normally -- again, not a lawyer -- but you build the case

up. you first look at other people around him. i just don't think the justice department is there yet. i don't think they need to be there yet, the question of whether to go ahead and go after the president personally. i think it is premature. let this play out. >> at the top of the show, you heard congressman cheney refer to the two editorials from rupert murdoch owned outlets against trump. one from the "new york post," the former president's favorite newspaper, and the other from the "wall street journal." the "journal" editorial, titled "the president who stood silent on january 6th," begins like this. no matter your views of the january 6th special committee, the facts it's laying out in hearings is sobering. the most horrifying to date came thursday in a hearing on president trump's conduct as the riots raged and he watched tv, sending out inflammatory tweets and refusing to send help. mr. trump took an oath to defend the constitution, and he had a duty as commander in chief to protect the capitol from a mob

attacking it in his name. he refused. he didn't call the military to send help. he didn't call mr. pence to check on the safety of his loyal vp. instead, he fed the mob's anger and let the riot play out. in the 18 months since, mr. trump has shown not an iota of regret. character is revealed in a crisis, and mr. pence passed his january 6th trial. mr. trump utterly failed his. meanwhile, the "new york post" went further with its editorial with this headline, "trump's silence on january 6th is damning." they write, in part, this, there has been much debate over whether trump's rally speech on january 6th, 2021, constituted incitement. that's somewhat of a red herring. what matters more, and has become crystal clear in recent days, is that trump didn't lift a finger to stop the violence that followed. and he was the only person who could stop what was happening.

he was the only one the crowd was listening to. it was incitement by silence. it concludes, his only focus was to find any means, damn the consequences, to block the peaceful transfer of power. there is no other explanation, just as there is no defense for his refusal to stop the violence. it's up to the justice department to decide if this is a crime. but as a matter of principle, as a matter of character, trump has proven himself unworthy to be this country's chief executive again. charlie sykes, i'm going to guess you don't disagree with much of that. i want to get your take on it. more than that, give us your analysis of the significance of where these editorials appeared, in two rupert murdoch owned outlets. he, of course, also owns fox news. they've been extraordinarily friendly to donald trump throughout much of his tenure, but there seems to be signs that may be changing. >> first of all, jonathan, i do

agree with those editorials. i think they are really very much on point. my one quibble is donald trump was not silent on january 6th. he was on the phone, and he was putting out tweets that were targeting vice president mike pence. it was worse than a dereliction of duty. but i guess most of us on the panel today are old enough to remember when newspaper editorials actually had some real clout or significance. or maybe they never did. but it is significant that rupert murdoch's publications would publish these editorials, but the reality is fox news is far more influential than the editorial pages of the "wall street journal" or the "new york post." i mean, this may be influential with the donor class, but as eddie mentioned about the wyoming primary, we need to understand what the mood is among the republican electorate. night after night after night, rupert murdoch's news network is broadcasting trumpist

propaganda. as long as that bull horn is employed to prop up trump, i don't think you're going to see an appreciable difference. but it certainly is interesting. i also thought, to make a note here, fox news had not reported on the editorials until liz cheney brought them up on fox news yesterday. once again, liz cheney, what a remarkable performance, pointing out that the boss of the folks, i mean, the owner of the company, in fact, has taken this particular position. but i wouldn't read too much into it in terms of the impact it is going to have, except we do have the drip, drip, drip of republicans thinking, you know, can we just move on from this freak show? >> yeah, it is also about backing a winner. we should recall that murdoch and a lot of news organizations were slow to support trump in 2015. they had a lot of criticisms about him, and only came aboard once it was clear he was the overwhelming favorite. we saw, vaughn, over the

weekend,ling rallies, both donald trump and mike pence in arizona. one was a lot bigger than the other. give us your assessment in terms of what you saw, and what does it mean right now about this split in the republican party? >> i think, you know, actually, extension of charlie's point, he's not silent a year and a half later. this rally came less than 24 hours after the final former hearing. you don't hear the former president denying he pressured former vice president to not certify the election. you didn't hear him denying he placed phone calls to members of congress to object to the results, or that he placed phone calls to local officials in arizona. there is no denial. one denial is he threw food. the other part of his speech, he was trying to undercut the reputations of cassidy hutchinson, of sarah matthews. he was putting more questions out into the ether. at that rally there, he was making himself the martyr here. this is a man who, yes, just an

hour and a half away from where former vice president mike pence was also campaigning, is setting himself up as a martyr for the republican party in power of the future. opposed to mike pence. this is the clearest choice path. we're talking about voters. ultimately, voters are going to be the ones to decide august 2nd in arizona. you have robson and lake, new faces to politics. one robson with mike pence, doug ducey. on the other hand, far-right arizona figures are standing next to lake. ultimately, it's the voters on august 2nd choosing the path there. last thing, it was a mike pence tweet, as he was leaving arizona and mike pence was flying in, he said, quote, if the republican party allows itself to become consumed by yesterday's grievances, we will lose. those are the two paths. >> yeah. that's what the republican party right now, elise, is grappling with. donald trump, even as his position as the favorite for '24, he refuses to talk about

'24. he's only talking about 2020. a lot of republicans fearful that he is going to jump in and declare his presidential candidacy before this year's midterms, which would be an unwelcome distraction, to say the least. >> talk about turbocharging the democratic electorate and really ensuring record turnout of democrats, if you have donald trump putting himself out there as a 2024 contender. specifically with arizona. i'm fascinated by the senate race there and how it is going to play out with so many wings of the republicans battling. you have the whack republicans, then you have, you know, more of the moderate, mccain republican wing. then you've got the progressives who are fighting with moderate democrats, too. how do you see that senate primary and eventual senate race playing out? >> it's interesting. unlike the governor's race, and the reason we're paying so much attention to it, is ducey felt

had a candidate in robson. many have been playing to donald trumpism, leaving another path for voters or even the more mainstream republicans we used to think of in that sense, they haven't had a path to go to. that's where, i think, a lot of the question is. it'll be trumpism versus mark kelly come november. >> with the litmus test of trump's support, whether or not you believe the 2020 election was up and up. from arizona to florida. top republicans flocked to the sunshine state over the weekend for two major conferences. friday, the state gop held its annual sunshine summit, headlined by florida governor and presumed 2024 presidential candidate ron desantis. unlike in past years, the event was largely closed off to the media. desantis only opening the conference center's doors to those who would give him positive coverage. the next day, former president trump headed to tampa, where the conservative student organization, turning point usa, was holding a summit of its own.

there, trump spoke for nearly 2 hours, railing against the january 6th committee and any other groups looking to hold him accountable for his actions. >> there's never been a politician treated -- there's really never been, probably in terms of a large-scale and in length of what is going on, it just never ends -- but there's never been a president treated like this. never been a politician. for the most part, there's never been a person treated like this. >> charlie sykes, i'm disappointed you didn't have an entrance like that for today's show, with smoke, sparkles, and sort of maybe fire. but setting that aside, we'll do better the next time. there it is. give us your take on just where things are about trump and how he continued backward looking but seemingly embraced by the vast majority of the party. >> well, yeah. i regret i don't get that kind of an introduction, as well. look, one of the big questions

is the republican party has a collective action problem. everybody seems to be looking at everybody else, like, you're going to do something about this, right? you're not going to let this happen again, right? you don't want to be the one who is going to throw yourself on the political hand grenade like liz cheney did. i mean, there's a lot of focus on whether, you know, ron desantis will run and whether he'd be able to take him on. there's some polls suggesting he might be competitive. but he is competitive in a one-to-one race. what if, in fact, we have a replay of 2015 and 2016, where you have all these candidates in the race? donald trump may not be as popular as he once was, but he could run the table with the kind of numbers he has. i think what you saw in florida and in arizona, though, is this continuum in the republican party, where donald trump is not just embracing magaism. think about the people he's associating with on the continuum, and it is a long continuum in conservative republican politics these days. donald trump is associated with the craziest possible, you know,

extremes out here. when you're talking about lake, when you're talking about wendy rogers, talking about going down to the tpusa, that he is depending fealty to the most extreme aspects of magaish. speaking to a group of young people for 2 hours and venting his grievances is a pretty good window of what republicans might face over the next two years. i think the question is, there's a lot of talk behind the scenes, among the donor class, among the elected officials, can we move on from donald trump? who is going to do it? i have to say that i think it is unlikely that mike pence is going to win the republican nomination. is ron desantis actually going to pull the trigger on all of this, knowing what a scorched earth campaign it will be? republicans have to ask themselves, does anybody think that donald trump would accept a defeat in republican primaries any more than he'd accept a defeat in a general election? what would that look like?

>> yeah, and that fealty to trump, that he is demanding, has led to some senate candidates, which many in the gop are becoming nervous that they may not grab the upper chamber like they thought perhaps a few months ago. charlie sykes, next time, we'll get you the smoke machine. vaughn hillyard, thank you, as well. ahead, adam kinzinger says when it comes to january 6th, there is evidence former president trump committed crimes. the congressman will be our guest. plus, less than 24 hours after signing a grain deal with ukraine, russia launches a new missile attack in odesa. we're going to talk with richard haass about the ongoing war and other headlines from around the globe. plus, an update on president biden's health after he tested positive for coronavirus last week. what the white house is saying about his condition. also ahead, we'll be joined by the chairwoman of the house oversight committee, congresswoman carolyn maloney. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

you're research shows that people remember watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. here's a pool party. look what i brought! liberty mutual! they customize your home insurance... so you only pay for what you need! ♪young people having a good time wi insurance.♪ ♪young people.♪ ♪good times.♪ ♪insurance!♪ only pay for what you need. ♪liberty liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection.

it's one pill, once a day, that's effective without topical steroids. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. plus, they felt fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. okay season 6! aw... this'll take forev—or not. do i just focus on when things don't work, and not appreciate when they do? [dog groans] so whatever is at work to pull all this off, it's working.

as are those earrings. ♪ ♪ even work works! i just booked this parking spot... this desk... and this conference room! i am filing status reports on an app that i made! i'm not even a coder! and it works!... i like your bag! [people cheer at concert] reime ticket upgrade! meaning....i get to meet my childhood idol. that works. i named my dog joey fatone. co2 levels-- if i may! all this technology is helping the world work, so you can focus on making the world work better! so i say...lets work! ...or i think that's what we're both saying. when your digital solutions work, the world works. that's why the world works with servicenow. hey! whats good your highness?! with xfinity internet, you get advanced security that helps protect you that home and on the go.ks with servicenow. you feel so safe, it's as if... i don't know... evander holyfield has your back. i wouldn't click on that. hey, thanks! we got a muffin for ed! all right! you don't need those calories.

can we at least split it? nope. advanced security that helps protect your devices in and out of the home. i mean, can i have a bite? only from xfinity. nah. unbeatable internet. made to do anything so you can do anything. at xfinity, we're constantly innovating. and we're working 24/7 to connect you to more of what you love. we're bringing you the nation's largest gig speed network. available to more homes than anyone else. and with xfi complete, get 10x faster upload speeds. tech upgrades for your changing wifi needs. and advanced security at home and on the go to block millions of threats. only from us... xfinity.

russian missiles hit the city of odesa hours after kyiv and moscow reached a deal to resume exporting grain from the ukrainian port city. regional officials say two cruise missiles hit the port on saturday, destroying a docked ukrainian ship and other military infrastructure. officials say two other missiles were shot down by ukraine's air defense. president zelenskyy denounced the attack and said it, quote, destroyed the possibility of a dialogue with russia. u.s. secretary of state antony blinken also condemned the strike, saying it cast serious doubt on moscow's credibility to

that agreement. meanwhile, new details are emerging about the harrowing conditions of hundreds of ukrainian fighters and civilians faced when they were trapped inside a steel factory inside the port city of mariupol for 80 days. this piece ran over the weekend in "the new york times." the plant was destroying a horror show. civilians and soldiers were short of food, weapons, and medicine to treat dozens of wounded troops. soldiers were dying from even minor wounds. inside the field hospital at the plant, the wounded soldiers looked pale and deathlike. crammed into a dark and dust-filled bunker, most lying on the concrete floor. night and day, russian ships and artillery units pounded the factory while jets fired rockets and bunker-busting munitions that began to degrade the bomb shelters. despair set in. people in the bunkers went weeks without seeing natural light or breathing clean air.

people became irritable and cruel. occasionally fighting, said a woman who sheltered there with her daughter. some became so desperate for an escape, they drank from the alcohol-infused hand sanitizer bottles installed during the pandemic. i encourage everyone to read the piece. it is gut-wrenching to say the least. richard haass, let's start with the rocket strike. it comes a short time after ukraine and russia seemed to strike a deal to allow more grain to come out of the country. ukraine, a bread basket of the world. real fears of a food shortage in africa and other places. yet, as we've seen so many times before, russia's word can't be trusted. >> it is not clear, jonathan, why the russians engaged in the diplomacy with the united nations and then they violated it. was the whole thing a tease, a show? was this a mistake?

someone who wasn't authorized to do it? was it a one-off? we don't know. i think the u.n. and turkey are beginning to try to resurrect this deal. it is important not just for ukraine but the world. we saw food riots in sri lanka, big parts of africa have food shortages. the combination of inflation and a lack of food is severe. we could have another arab spring in the middle east. the stakes here are enormous. you know, the bottom line is we don't quite understand why this deal unravelled, you know, within 24 hours of it being signed. what is the russian or putin agenda here? i think we'll find out the next couple days whether this can be revised. if so, good. if not, you know, we are where we were. one other big pieces of news over the weekend was the zelenskyy interview ""wall street journal." what he basically said was, we are not interested in a cease-fire. we are not interested in any situation that gives a pause so the russians can rebuild while they sit on our lands and rebuild militarily. i thought that was interesting.

it showed essentially that, you know, we're open to diplomacy, obviously, but not diplomacy that hurts us and helps the russians. >> on that point, you know, we, though we're at the end of july, before we know it, winter will be here. there is a sense from u.s. officials i speak to that there will be a pause, six weeks, two months, where there won't be much fighting because of the conditions. the fear is if the russians, whatever territory they have at that moment, they're probably going to be able to keep. the clock is ticking. >> sure. i think that's likely to happen anyhow. both sides are going to have trouble sustaining this level of intensity. i think you'll have this open-ended war going with russia. the intensity of the battle will begin to dial down. the other thing that's going to happen, though, as we get closer to the winter is the question of how the europeans react to gas cut-off. russia is going to do it. it was a bad development. the fall of the draghi government was a crack in western solidarity. alternatives to him are

right-wing, pro-russian forces. dangerous. questions in germany. putin has clearly decided time is his friend. he can use time to test the fabric of western solidarity, to grind ukraine down, to grind nato down, and i think we have to, again, reset our calendar, reset our clock for what will be a long war. putin has decided it will help him. >> richard, that's what i wanted to ask you about. are we just looking at a long-term insurgency in these contested areas? if president zelenskyy doesn't want to concede any territory, then vladimir putin doesn't show any signs of slowing down his assault, then is this just going to be an ongoing conflict without resolution, where the west is fueling and shipping in arms and also russia is able to reconstitute their forces, too? >> russians may have some trouble. it's not clear where they're going to get the help from. that's the one area where the sanctions might be making a difference. the short answer to your question is yes.

look, this war has been going on since 2014. this is not so much a new war but chapter two of an existing war. what you could have is a conventional war with military on military engagements. then, as you suggest, in some areas you could have more of an insurgency. ukraine doesn't send traditional military units but tries to undermine russian occupation in the way insurgents have done it from time in memorial. we are ultimately going to move toward that, with a classic war and guerrilla war simultaneously, possibly for years to come. >> no shortage of commitment from the united states to continue to send money and weapons that way. europe, that will be a greater question as the year goes on. >> also down the road in the united states. whether we have the -- this is big bucks. billions and billions of dollars. what will be interesting in both parties, we've already seen signs in the republican party, people saying, enough for ukraine. we have real problems here at home. we've done more than enough for them. we have to focus on ourselves.

i think a version of the old guns versus butter debate could open up in this country at some point. again, it is something vladimir putin is hoping to see. >> as a u.s. official put to me over the weekend, the money is not running out, but it is not unlimited either. coming up here on "morning joe," a republican governor is taking a stand against an extreme right-wing candidate who wants to become his successor. plus, the world health organization is bringing more attention to monmonkeypox. the new designation for the virus, and how worried we should be about it. plus, congresswoman chair carolyn maloney of new york joins us next on "morning joe." joins us next on "morning joe.

- common percy! - yeah let's go! on a trip. book with priceline. you save more, so you can “woooo” more. - wooo. - wooo. wooooo!!!!! woohooooo!!!! w-o-o-o-o-o... yeah, feel the savings. priceline. every trip is a big deal. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ "shake your thang" by salt n pepa there's a monster problem and our hero needs solutions. so she starts a miro to brainstorm. “shoot it?” suggests the scientists. so they shoot it. hmm...

back to the miro board. dave says “feed it?” and dave feeds it. just then our hero has a breakthrough. "shoot it, camera, shoot a movie!" and so our humble team saves the day by working together. on miro.

why is everyone talking about beets? they're nature's superfood secret. total beets from force factor help boost heart-healthy energy, support blood pressure, improve circulation, and increase nitric oxide. rush to walmart for great-tasting total beets from force factor, the #1 beets brand in america! 1992, planned parenthood

versus casey. i knew we needed more women in congress. i haven't quit fighting since. funding for rape kits. >> the first female chair. >> today, the dobbs decision overturned roe, but being at the forefront of women's rights taught me we can fight back and win if we don't quit. i approve this message because it also taught me -- you cannot send a man to do a woman's job. >> abortion rights are front and center in that exclusive first look at congresswoman carolyn maloney's ad ahead of the democratic primary august 23rd. she's running for re-election against her colleague, congressman jerry nadler, after their districts were redrawn into one. congresswoman maloney joins us now. she is the chair of the house committee on oversight and reform. congresswoman maloney, thanks so much for being here. let's have you start by talking about the ad. why did you feel like that is what you wanted to put out there

as a central point of discussion for this race against two people that new yorkers are used to both having in congress? >> first of all, thank you for showing the ad. i think it shows that i have the energy and drive to go to washington, be in washington, and fight for all women and all progressives during this time of roe. the republican majority has -- they used to chip away at our rights. they literally bulldozed them into the ground, and we need more women, democratic women in congress that will fight for legal, safe abortions, a clean environment, and into gun violence. it is a really challenging time with the supreme court, these decisions. we need people with experience in fight. i think actions speak louder than words, and my ad shows that. >> congresswoman maloney, you really are launching an attack of sorts on congressman nadler

by saying, you know, heralding your bona fide when it comes to abortion rights. do you think he's not been as strong an advocate as he should have been during his time in congress? >> i think women fight harder. when a woman is at the table, the agenda changes. change doesn't come easily, but it will come if you never give up. and women will never give up on the rights for women. >> congresswoman maloney, let me press you a bit on that. what do you actually mean by the claim that women fight harder? i mean, i'm asking the question in the context of a broader kind of criticism of the democratic party is not fighting hard enough in this particular environment. how will you distinguish yourself as someone who will fight aggressively in light of the forces that seem to be trying to undermine our

democracy in this moment. a, what do you mean by women fight harder? b, what is the nature of the fight that you understand that's in front of you, in front of all of us, in light of the forces trying to undermine the republic at this moment? >> well, i think that the fight for abortion rights, for our clean environment, and then for gun safety, i think that i've been rated repeatedly by outside organizations, govtrack and the committee for effective congresses, first, second, or third most effective member for getting things done. actually accomplishing things, not just talking but getting things done. and i have been in the fights in the street. just got arrested last week or week before last. also in the back room. i can tell you, in the back room, when the doors are closed and the cameras are off, the people who stand up and fight to the death for women's rights are women. we need more women. we're half the population.

we are underrepresented in congress. we need more democratic women there in the fight every single day. >> congresswoman maloney, let's switch gears here. obviously, the heat of the last week or so has been a fierce reminder of the impact of climate change across the globe. yet, one of your democratic senate colleagues, joe manchin, a week or so ago, stood in the way of the president's climate change agenda. what is your message to him, and what is your message, more so perhaps, to democrats who are staring at washington and see your party in charge of the white house, both houses of congress, and can't get something done on something so fundamental and dangerous? >> well, we did get it done in the house. the challenge is the senate. ultimately, we need to elect more democratic senators who will fight for climate change and lgbtq rights, for women's rights, and, basically, we need

to elect democrats who will vote for policies that will combat climate change. it's literally a life and death. this midterm election is coming up, and we should send more democrats to the house and the senate who will fight not only for the environment but also for gun safety laws, sensible gun safety laws and women's rights, equality, and safe, legal abortions. >> all right. congresswoman carolyn mamaloney thank you for joining us this morning. on climate change, richard, record temps across the u.s. this weekend, but europe really buckled under the heat they faced a few days ago. it's alleviated a little bit in some places. still punishing in spain, portugal, more in the south. talk to us a little about what you're seeing of climate change across the globe as a national security issue, but also just, frankly, as a human rights

issue. >> the bottom line, jonathan, is we're losing the fight against it. the world now is going to meet for the 27th time this november in egypt to talk about climate change. the problem is, we're talking about climate change while climate change is getting worse and worse. domestically here, we recently had a set of decisions. you talked about the legislation that didn't pass, the supreme court decision hobbling the epa. what is happening nationally and internationally is we're falling further behind, and i don't think politics will deliver answers. we have to hope technology gives us breakthroughs. we have to spend more money on adapting to the results of climate change. this is one of the most frightening things out here. here it is, we're in the third decade of this century. it is still possible, and even likely, before this century ends, this will be the defining

issue of the era. it'll create tens of millions of refugees. it'll affect the adequacy of food. it'll affect disease. it'll affect lifestyles. we are getting a hint, and it is not just the future. it's increasingly now. the inadequacy of the political response nationally and internationally, to me, is one of the most stunning features of the moment. >> there had been a sense, you know, obviously, president trump pulled out of the paris climate change treaty, and there is a sense the u.s. would get back on board, eddie, to be a leader on climate change once joe biden took office. as richard pointed out, it is members of his own party that sabotaged the effort, as well as the supreme court, which gutted what the epa can do. how does this change? how does the political will catch up to, as richard says, what will be, over the next decade, century, almost certainly the defining issue for our present and future? >> absolutely. we have to begin to identify the oversized roll of the fossil fuel industry in our politics.

we have to identify and criticize our own addiction to fossil fuels. i mean, just in "the new york times" today, the republic of congo is now going to auction off parts of its rain forest. $500 million is going to go by auctioning the rain forest, which sucks up the carbon and helps us live. until we unction the stakes, we're definitely in peril. >> there's lots of things we can do. we can use trade agreements to tax stuff made with coal going across the international lines. we can try to preserve the rain forest. nuclear power. why is there no serious debate in this country and around the world about expanding the use of nuclear power? it does not emit any greenhouse gases. the inconsistency here is marked. we have to live with fossil fuels for decades, but all fossil fuels are not equal. natural gas is not the same as coal. we're going to need a fossil fuel transition. there's so much that can be

done, and there's so much that isn't being done. this is really one of the, to me, almost baffling, frustrating issues out there. i think everyone says, it's up to the other guy. you have to do something. we're not doing it ourselves. even if we do it ourselves, it's not going to be enough. in the future, generations are going to look back on these years and say, what the hell were they thinking? how irresponsible were countries around the world. >> no more important conversation, and one we will keep having in the days ahead. coming up, one of our next guests is just back from ukraine. congresswoman mikie sherrill met with that country's president in kyiv, and she joins us straight ahead to talk about it. "morning joe" will be right back. itoh, i can tell business is going through the “woof”. but seriously we need a reliable way to help keep everyone connected from wherever we go. well at at&t we'll help you find "morning joe" will be right "morning joe" will be right back that sounds just paw-fect.

terrier-iffic i labra-dore you round of a-paws at&t 5g is fast, reliable and secure for your business. ♪♪ subway's drafting 12 new subs for the all-new subway series menu the new monster has juicy steak and crispy bacon. but what about the new boss? it looks so good it makes me hangry! settle down there, big guy the new subway series. what's your pick? medium latte, half-caff, no foam. quite the personalized order. i know what i like. i've been meaning to ask you, carl. does your firm offer personalized index investing? hmm? so i can remove a stock that doesn't align with my goals. i'm a broker, not a barista. what about managing gains and losses to be more tax efficient? not a wizard either. looks like schwab personalized indexing can. schwaaab! learn more about personalized indexing at schwab today. flowers are fighters.

schwaaab! that's why the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's is full of them. because flowers find a way to break through. just like we will. join the fight at alz.org/walk ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ ♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪ you're never responsible for unauthorized the joy of movement. purchases on your discover card. finding the perfect developer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found her. she's in prague, between the perfect cup of coffee and her museum of personal computers. and you can find her, and millions of other talented pros, right now on upwork.com

so we need something super distinctive... dad's work, meet daughter's playtime. thankfully, meta portal auto pans and zooms to keep you in frame. and the meeting on track. meta portal. the smart video calling device that makes work from home work for you. i recommend nature made vitamins because i trust their quality. they were the first to be verified by usp... ...an independent organization that sets strict quality and purity standards. nature made. the number one pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. snoring? because quality sleep is vital, the sleep number 360 smart bed can gently raise your partner's head to help. ah...that's better. the number one pharmacist recommended our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. save 40% on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed queen now only $1,499.

whoa. cooperstown. i always tried to live my life in a way that supports others,

to make a positive influence in the world. and if my story can remind you of anything, let it remind you that when you believe in someone, you can change their world. you can change their future. just like so many people who believed in me. to everyone that believed in me, from my family to coaches to teammates to friends, know i could not have done this without you. my hall of fame plaque represents each one of you, and i'm going to thank you guys for the rest of my life. thank you very much, and god bless you all. >> the national baseball hall of fame welcomed seven new members yesterday, including that guy, boston red sox great david ortiz. big papi sharing those parting words with some 35,000 baseball fans gathered in cooperstown,

upstate new york. ortiz on the strength of a 20-year career that included 541 home runs and three world series titles becomes the first career designated hitter to be inducted into his first year on the hall of fame ballot. david ortiz, the most popular person in my house, among my two children, way ahead of me, richard haass. can't be overstated what he did to boston. they had an -- red sox, 86 year championship drought. the comeback against your new york yankees in 2004, which ortiz led, changed that. but i'm giving you a chance to be classy. even bronx bomber fans, even though ortiz was undoubtedly a yankee tormenting throughout his career, a great ambassador for the game, clutch hitter, and well-deserving hall of famer. >> great yesterday watching him, even for a yankee fan. he brought joy to the game and class. unbelievable talent. i also have toed add, gill hodges, finally, brooklyn dodgers, getting into the hall of fame. one of the great first baseman

in major league history. it was a great day. minoso. it was an amazing day yesterday of real talent. >> great celebration of the sport. ortiz, certainly the smile lighting up the proceedings. richard, here's your turn to gloat. because while red sox fans kept an eye on papi in cooperstown, boy, the team currently playing, not so great. defensive struggles continued for the red sox. they got swept by the bluejays this weekend. they lost 8-4 yesterday. this was a three-game set, mind you, that started with a toronto victory friday by the final score of 28-5. you heard that right, 28-5. blue jays almost sent a record for the most runs in a game. the red sox slipped to fourth in the american league east, a half game ahead of the once lowly oracles. baltimore was held at bay by the

yankees. judge, that's a daily occurrence. that's not great, richard, from my perspective. you were classy about papi, so no you the gloat. >> judge will be the most expensive player for not signing him up. unbelievable season. ahead of mickey mantle's pace on home runs. yeah, i guess still in first. toronto is hanging in there. houston, my yankees have a problem, which is they can't beat houston. i worry about that. >> i agree on the astros. it should be noted, yankees had remarkably good health to this point in the season. they lost a couple arms in the bullpen. severino is out a while. astros are not going away. thank you for your insight on foreign policy and hardball, richard haass. are the january 6th hearings driving voters away from trump and the gop? what kind of impact the hearings might be having this november.

plus, a member of the select committee, congressman adam kinzinger will be our guest. "morning joe" right back. e our . e our . "morning joe" right back liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. [ sfx: submarine rising out of water ] minions are bitin' today. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ minions: the rise of gru, only in theaters. ♪♪ it's the all-new subway series menu. twelve irresistible new subs. the most epic sandwich roster ever created. ♪♪ it's subway's biggest refresh yet! we hit the bike trails every weekend

♪♪ shinges doesn't care. i grow all my own vegetables shingles doesn't care. we've still got the best moves you've ever seen good for you, but shingles doesn't care. because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. but, no matter how healthy you feel, your immune system declines as you age increasing your risk for getting shingles. so, what can protect you? shingrix protects. you can protect yourself from shingles with a vaccine proven to be over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your pharmacist or doctor about shingrix. shingles doesn't care. but you should.

bubbles bubbles so many bubbles! as an expedia member you earn points on your travels, and that's on top of your airline miles. so you can go and see... or taste or do absolutely nothing with all those bubbles. without ever wondering if you're getting the most out of your trip. because you are. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish]

she is fearless heart's on the line depend silhouette keeping leaks off her mind. comfortable in shapeware fabric she moves with ease. confident on nights like these. depend silhouette. the only thing stronger than us, is you.

if i have to choose between maintaining a seat in the house of representatives or protecting the constitutional republic and ensuring the american people know the truth about donald trump, i'm going to choose the constitution and the truth every single day. >> if you end up losing your job in congress because of your work on this committee, it will have been worth it to you? >> there's no question. i believe my work on this committee is the single most important thing i've ever done professionally. it is an unbelievable honor to represent the people of wyoming

in congress. i know all of us who are elected officials take an oath, that we swear under god to the constitution, and that oath has to mean something. that oath means that we cannot embrace and enable a president as dangerous as donald trump is. >> congresswoman liz cheney yesterday on her political career and whether her work on the january 6th select committee could mean losing her job. welcome back to "morning joe." it is 7:00 a.m. here on the east coast. it's also monday, july 25th. i'm jonathan lemire. elise jordan and eddie glaude jr. is still with us. joining us is "new york times" mara gay and "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. joe, mika, and willie have the day off. it's it refreshing to hear someone put country over party, hearing that from liz cheney?

>> at least one or two people, you know, we've seen throughout the january 6th committee. there are a few republicans who are willing to face reality and the hard facts of what we all saw on television unfold in front of our eyes at the u.s. capitol on january 6th. and that's why your news story, jeremy, is interesting. how plenty of right-wing media figures just aren't bothering to adjust to that reality. that these are the facts of what happened. can you talk a little bit about how they're still able to deny what we all saw happen in broad daylight? >> right. what they saw happen in broad daylight. in many cases, what the most die-hard trump loyalists thought was horrifying, and said so at the time. it took all but a few days before they started to realize that wasn't a politically sustainable point of view to be holding and they had to rewrite the history. the rewriting of the horrifying events of january 6th on the right has been one of the most

remarkable things that i've seen in my decade plus covering media. i mean, you have something that we witnessed. there is video evidence of it that is played night after night on television, that was the centerpiece of these hearings. and you still have donald trump apologists who are saying, don't believe your eyes. that's not really what happened. you have tucker carlson showing video of police officers at the capitol standing by passively because they're vastly outnumbered, being overrun by this mob. he says, look, the cops let these rioters in. there was no forced entry here. where is the crime? they were allowed into the capitol. which, you know, doesn't really take a genius to see in the next frame a guy with a riot shield, a proud boy, smashing his way through a capitol window and allowing these rioters to stream through and ransack the place. that's just one example of the many ways that the right has

taken a completely revisionist narrative. now, the question, i think, is how sustainable that is in the long term, if you have outlets like we saw over the weekend, "new york post," "wall street journal," rupert murdoch's publications, both basically saying donald trump is unfit for office. that was pretty striking. because that doesn't just happen by accident, right? the "new york post" and the "journal" both go after donald trump. >> we're going to talk about the editorials right now. there were, indeed, two from rupert murdoch owned outlets over the weekend, both taking on former president trump for his role in the january 6th attack on the capitol. the "wall street journal" piece was titled "the president who stood still on january 6th." begins this way. no matter your views of the january 6th special committee, the facts it is laying out in hearings are sobering. the most horrifying to date came thursday in a hearing on president trump's conduct, as

the riot raged and he sat watching tv, posting inflammatory tweets and refusing to send help. it continues, mr. trump took an oath to defend the constitution, and he had a duty as commander in chief to protect the capitol from a mob attacking it in his name. he refused. he didn't call the military to send help. he didn't call mr. pence to check on the safety of his loyal vp. instead, he fed the mob's anger and let the riot play out. in the 18 months since, mr. trump has shown not an iota of regret. character is revealed in a crisis, and mr. pence passed his january 6th trial. mr. trump utterly failed his. meanwhile, the "new york post," usually friendly to the former president, went even further with its editorial titled this "trump's silence on january 6th is damning." they write, there has been much debate over whether trump's

rally speech january 6th, 2021, constituted incitement. that's something of a red herring. what matters more and has become crystal clear in recent days is that trump didn't lift a finger to stop the violence that followed. he was the only person who could stop what was happening. he was the only one the crowd was listening to. it was incitement by silence. it concludes, his only focus was to find any means -- damn the consequences -- to block the peaceful transfer of power. there is no other explanation, just as there is no defense for his refusal to stop the violence. it's up to the justice department to decide if this is a crime. but as a matter of principle, as a matter of character, trump has proven himself unworthy to be this country's chief executive again. however, jeremy peters, as we started to discuss, you pumped the brakes on the notion of a reckoning on donald trump from the right-wing media. you write in part this, even as

the committee's vivid depiction of mr. trump's failure to intervene led two influential outlets on the right, the "new york post" and the "wall street journal" to denounce him over the weekend, many media personalities have continued to push a more sanitized narrative of january 6th, 2021. part of the right's message to trump supporters is, in effect, you may have initially recoiled in horror at what you thought happened at the capitol, but you were misled by the mainstream media. the dissonance can be perplexing. the same fox news hosts who were imploring the president's chief of staff to intercede with the president or risk destroying his legacy, as laura ingraham put it in a text to mark meadows on the 6th, now accuse the mainstream media of exaggerating the events at the capitol. jeremy, tell us more about your reporting here, and the two editorials, yeah, those are strong words, but sounds like no one is really listening? >> at this point, i don't think

any of us should be holding our breaths for some type of widespread defection in the republican party of loyal trump supporters. i just don't see that happening. i still believe it is his nomination to lose. i believe he is going to run again. that's what my reporting suggests. and he is the favorite. there's no doubt about it. i think, you know, the question is, what types of republicans start to peel away? you can see the trump voter, voted for him in 2016, 2020, but is so alarmed and uneasy at his continuous attacking of our democratic institutions and the constant lying, and really the self-pity, right? it's all about him. i think the more he makes it solely about him and not about what he is going to do to address the very real grievances and concerns many americans have, you know, i don't --

that's problematic. but we'll see. i mean, it's not like there are a whole lot of republicans right now who are rising up saying, i'm going to run against him. if they are, you know, 6%, 7% in the polls. >> one question i have for you is, who does the "new york post" and the "wall street journal," what kind of trump voters do those papers reach? how do you compare that to the enormous power of this, you know, newer far-right wing mega sphere? >> it's so much larger and so much more evolved than we saw when president trump ran the first time. it's gotten much more disciplined about shouting down any dissent. i mean, if you listen carefully, what a lot of the hosts on fox are saying and what a lot of these other pundits and

commentators and columnists, they're not necessarily defending trump the man as much as they are perpetuating this idea, that the entire judicial system, the entire federal government is rigged against the little guy. that's why they're able to -- one of my favorite stories over the last couple weeks is this older grandmother, 69 years old. she has cancer and was trespassing in the capitol. she's going to jail. she's been hailed by right-wing media as a hero. this poor, sick, elderly grandmother being railroaded by the biden justice system. that's type of almost propaganda you're dealing with here. it is why it is effective. there are kernels of truth that get exaggerated and exploited and blown out of proportion. they're effective at making people think that if they're inclined to believe it, the whole january 6th committee

investigation and the prosecutions are a sham. >> i mean, this is an interesting contrast with liz cheney saying, i'm willing to give up my career in defense of the constitution. then you talk about this particular media ecosystem and what they're trafficking, conspiracy theories. their deep suspicion of the deep state and the like. what you see in the difference, and i can't believe i'm actually saying this, is that liz cheney actually agrees with -- or is committed to the background conditions for democracy to work. so i can disagree with liz cheney because she agrees with the assumptions that allow us to disagree. these people, it seems to me, right, don't agree with the basic principles of democracy. so they are willing to undermine the conditions for any reasonable deliberation. then you combine that with the other story in the "new york times." >> look around the table here. >> you combine that with the

story of the republicans on the campaign trail, you know, talking about violence and civil war. you have conspiracy theories, deep state suspicions here. disagreeing with the background conditions. then folks are saying the stakes are that these are bitter enemies. violence is on the horizon. seems that, you know, what these folks you're talking about, this is a pale to a democracy. >> i used to work at the "wall street journal," and as a former employee, former reporter there, it was nice to see them strike one for democracy. >> you know this stuff doesn't just happen on accident, right? >> it doesn't just happen. it's a top-down organization. but i would say, to your point, eddie, i think the difference, right, is just this sense of grievance that we're seeing in that larger right-wring mega sphere. i think that was stoked by trump, obviously, over the past six years. this idea that the entire system is rigged, as you said, against the little guy. i think as we see american

democracy has expanded to include different people, including non-white americans, that, along with a changing economy and stressors on the middle class, have really combined to create this combustive environment. you're looking for some explanation of what you're seeing around you. i think, unfortunately, the right wing media has been all too quick to -- to blame non-white americans, to blame democratic institutions, and it's essentially -- you know, if we don't control it, then let's burn the whole thing down. that's what this is. this is about power. so there are some people in america who are more interested in having power than democracy. if they can't have power through the democracy, they'd rather not have the democracy. so there is a divide between those, like the "new york post," apparently, great to see the "wall street journal" saying, no, we still want the democracy.

and those who say, you know what, let's just -- as long as we're in control, it doesn't matter. the democratic institutions don't matter. democracy doesn't matter. forget it all. it's scary. >> it's fed into the erosion of trust in the institutions by the american public. a person central to trumpism, steve bannon, the trump ally and former white house strategist, has been convicted of contempt of congress. after a swift hearing that featured just two government witnesses, two fewer shirts than bannon was wearing at the time, the jury reached a unanimous verdict in less than 3 hours. it marks a legal victory for the house committee. bannon will be sentenced october 21st. according to federal law, he faces a minimum sentence of 30 days in jail. bannon has vowed to appeal. joining us now, senior national correspondent for bloomberg business week, josh green. he is the author of the book, "devil's bargain, steve bannon,

donald trump, and the storming of the presidency." since you wrote the book on steve bannon, you're the man for the moment. give us your reaction as to what you saw on friday, sure, but what do you expect to get from bannon next in reaction to this moment? >> well, i think, first of all, it is a huge comedown for steve bannon, who began this process in october when he was subpoenaed, saying it would be a misdemeanor from hell for the biden administration. he'd go medieval on his enemies. in the end, he didn't take the stand or mount a defense. he wound up, as we found out last week, with two guilty pleas and facing a jail sentence. more broadly, the prosecutors in the case really boiled it down to a single item, which i think is right. they said bannon shows allegiance to trump over come compliance with the law. one of the reasons i think the trial was so short and the jury deliberated such a short time is this was as clear-cut a case of

breaking the law as you could possibly have. you know, the facts lined up in a way that bannon is going to face the judge again in october and face anywhere from 30 days to 2 years in jail. >> to this point, he hasn't been shy about the idea after wanting to be a maga martyr. we know he's had, shall we say, an up and down relationship with donald trump. you follow him so closely. give us a sense right now where he is in the trump orbit. he has this trump podcast and is pushing the agenda. he play be looking at prison, but what role does he play as trump plots his comeback? >> the role he has played since being fired from the white house in 2017 is chief propagandist for maga. that was his ticket to climb back to relevance. be trump's loudest defender, you know, in the weeks after the election. his podcast was the sort of chief node of conspiracy theory,

denialism, misinformation, everything that sort of swept across the right after donald trump lost the election. obviously, we know from his public statements, from books that have been reported, from his own podcast, that he was central to the plotting around january 6th. that was why the committee was so interested in speaking to him in the first place. i think that role, though, the chief propagandist role, the guy who is, like, the most die-hard of die-hard trump supporters is part of what has landed him in hot water here. there were other trump supporters, mark meadows and dan scavino, subpoenaed by the committee and negotiated it and wound up avoiding a criminal contempt charge. bannon and peter navarro, another loyalist, were the only two that said we're absolutely not going to do this. as a result, they're charged with criminal contempt. >> josh, so as you know really well, one of the things that has happened since rush limbaugh died is there has been a vacuum in conservative radio.

bannon has really stepped in, i think, more than any other figure and filled part of that. not all of that, because i think limbaugh was kind of singular. but as we get closer to 2024, do you see bannon taking any official role in a trump campaign? >> great question. great point about the media, too. going to your conversation earlier about some of these murdoch papers breaking off and seeming to turn against trump, to me, that feels like history repeating itself. you go back to 2015 and '16 when trump first came out. there was a big struggle within conservative media. bannon was really the guy that was fighting against fox news and murdoch and what he called the establishment wing of the conservative media. trump won the war. fox news today looks more like breitbart news, you know, in 2015, in 2016.

i think his role going forward is going to be to try to propagate that as much as he possibly can. i fully expect that if trump runs, and i expect he will run, that you're going to see this same push from the far right, from media figures like steve bannon, to steam roll the right, as trump did in 2015 and '16. bannon's goal, and it's one of the reasons he's been steadfast about refusing to cooperate with the january 6th committee, is he wants to be the big guy, the chief propagandist, that that role. i think he is far more comfortable there than he would be taking a formal place on donald trump's campaign. we saw the brief, spectacular rise and fall of steve bannon as an actual employee of trump, when he made it to the white house and lasted six or seven months. >> prison or not, we certainly have not heard the last from steve bannon. senior national correspondent for bloomberg business week, josh green, thank you so much for being with us this morning. still ahead here on "morning

joe," for the second time in two years, the world health organization has declared a global health emergency. so what exactly is monkeypox, and how worried should you be? plus, with the midterm elections less than four months away, what kind of impact will the january 6th hearings have on voters? we'll have a look at the latest polling. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. . [power-drill noises] alright, limu, give me a socket wrench, pliers, and a phone open to libertymutual.com they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need... we'll be right back. and a blowtorch. [teddy bear squeaks] [doug sighs] limu, call a mechanic. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

we hit the bike trails every weekend only pay for what you need. shinges doesn't care. i grow all my own vegetables shingles doesn't care. we've still got the best moves you've ever seen good for you, but shingles doesn't care. because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. but, no matter how healthy you feel, your immune system declines as you age increasing your risk for getting shingles. so, what can protect you? shingrix protects. you can protect yourself from shingles with a vaccine proven to be over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your pharmacist or doctor about shingrix. shingles doesn't care. but you should.

80% of couples sleep too hot or too cold. because quality sleep is vital, the sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing, so you both stay cool. our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. save 40% on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed queen now only $1,499.

wanna help kids get their homework done? well, an internet connection's a good start. but kids also need computers. and sometimes the hardest thing about homework is finding a place to do it. so why not hook community centers up with wifi? for kids like us, and all the amazing things we're gonna learn. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities.

in order for small businesses to thrive, they need to be smart. efficient. agile. and that's never been more important than it is right now. so for a limited time, comcast business is introducing small business savings. call now to get powerful internet for just 39 dollars a month. with no contract. and a money back guarantee. all on the largest, fastest reliable network. from the company that powers more businesses than anyone else. call and start saving today. comcast business. powering possibilities. 7:23 in the morning. looking at new york city. it's hot. it's humid. it's terrible. a man accused of attempting to stab new york republican gubernatorial candidate lee zeldin at a campaign event is facing charges. jakubonis was charged with assaulting a member of congress

with a deadly weapon, a crime that carries a maximum sentence of ten years in prison. the 43-year-old allegedly walked on to a flat bed trailer, trying to stab zeldin with a key chain. he pulled him down on the trailer and said several times, "you're done." the suspect was initially charged with attempted assault in the second degree, then released. elsewhere, wes moore has won the democratic primary for governor of maryland. three days after voting con cluded, nbc news called the race. moore, a veteran of the afghanistan war, will now take on dan cox, the trump-endorsed candidate who won the republican nomination for governor. moore is projected to be the strong favorite in the november election against cox, whose extreme right-wing brand of

politics is considered a liability for the heavily democratic state that twice elected governor larry hogan. yesterday, hogan said he will not be supporting sox in the -- cox in the upcoming election. >> you're in the going to support him in november. are you going to vote for the democratic nominee wes moore? >> i have to make a decision between now and november. i'm certainly not supporting this guy. he is not qualified to be governor. >> at least we don't see that often. the sitting governor of one party refusing to endorse the candidate of the same party, elise. >> maybe there is something there. you have other republicans like charlie baker have done the same. i am wondering if this summer has been more impactful for donald trump's slump than we're really giving it credit. i think that you look at how he -- everyone was petrified to

talk out about him six months ago, and it is starting a little bit. governor hogan, i think it's a separate case. he's never had a problem speakingseeing the ripple effect of the january 6th hearings. i think actually starting to have some impact. >> hogan, a rumored 2024 presidential candidate. you mention the trump slump, and that's a perfect segue to this. we bring in now political strategist and pollster, frank luntz, and axios' josh crowsar. there is new polling on what elise brought up, the impact january 6th may be having on voters and how they view donald trump. >> we are starting to see trump drop below the critical 50% mark in terms of who republicans want to see as their nominee in 2024, and the constant, consistent rise of florida governor ron desantis. he is up into the mid 20s

nationwide. critically, because truly the national numbers don't matter, and we learned that in 2016, in 2008 with barack obama. what matters is new hampshire, south carolina, iowa for the republicans. ron desantis is rising in all the early states significantly, and there is even a survey that now has him ahead of donald trump in new hampshire. clearly, republicans still see trump as their most important political figure. his endorsement still matters, as we saw in the maryland governor's race. but when they're looking forward rather than looking back, more and more republicans are saying, enough. i don't want to focus on the past. i want to focus on the future. i don't want to focus on donald trump and an election that is now two years old. i want to focus on inflation, focus on crime, focus on ukraine. this is causing a significant problem for trump. i think it's the reason why he is more likely than not to

announce in 2022 rather than wait until 2023. one final point, if he does announce, he could actually cost the republicans the house as well as the senate. if the election is about the economy, republicans win both. if the election is about donald trump, republicans lose both. >> certainly there's alarm bells ringing in the gop about the possibility of losing the senate if trump were to jump in. that's the first i've heard the house may be at risk, as well. josh, first, congrats on the new gig at axios. secondly, you guys used the exact phrase, summer slump, to describe what is happening with donald trump. tell us more about it. >> jonathan, to make an entertainment comparison, it feels like we're in season six of "celebrity apprentice. there is still a lot of people tuning in, but there is a little fatigue. one republican strategist involved in the senate races gave me a good way of looking at

where the republican party is right now. among the pro-trump voters, along the lines of what frank said, about half the republican pro-trump voters are maga all the way. they are into the election conspiracy theories. they will hang on to every word. they will go to the rallies. that's about maybe 40% of the overall republican electorate. the other half is very pro-trump, might say they want him to run again for president. but they want to look at the future. they're concerned about the economy, as frank said. they're concerned about crime. maybe they have concerns about 2020, but they're much more feature focused. when you combine that half of the trump electorate with maybe the 20% of republicans who are basically anti-trump, that is the coalition that, you know, someone like ron desantis or anyone else, for that matter, is looking at as they try to prepare for 2024. >> elise, i believe season six ofapprentice" featured gary busse.

>> that's worth tuning in for any day. i want to go back to what frank said which i thought was provocative. if donald trump gets involved in the race, not only do republicans risk the senate but also the house. specifically, that statement in light of a recent poll that two of my favorite pollsters, john and tony just did, 68% from battleground districts. it seems tough to imagine districts being able to hold onto the house, even if donald trump gets into the race. >> yeah, elise. biden's numbers and the democratic party's numbers are so weak that republicans only need four net seats to take back the house majority. that's a much more doable task. i think the republican party may have lost a little ground over the last month, but they still are in pretty strong position to take back the house, based on the polling and reporting that

i've seen and done. but, you know, i think one important thing when it comes to the senate is trump has hand-picked a number of these big senate candidates in the must-win states for republicans. folks like dr. oz, herschel walker. in arizona, blake masters is the front runner in that state. candidates still matter, especially in these senate races that get national attention. we're seeing the democratic numbers looking pretty weak in these states, but democratic candidates running well ahead of that generic ballot because of the weaknesses of a lot of these republican challengers. i think it is less the environment collapsing more republicans. i think it is looking like a very good midterm election for republicans. but it is more that you have, especially on the senate side, a number of unusually weak senate candidates that could be jeopardizing the opportunities they have. >> hi, frank luntz, this is eddie glaude. i want to ask about your poll.

i'm struck by this language of looking to the future. i want to understand, what does it substantively single out between desantis and trump in this regard? we have trump as the political actor, the kind of, you know, p.t. barnum of republican politics in some ways, but we see desantis masterfully using the culture wars and the like. what do you mean that these folk want to look to the future when we talk about these particular candidates in this sense? >> they don't want to be focused on the 2020 election. they want to move on. they want to -- >> policy or just the election itself? >> it's the policy of the future versus the election of the past. it's a good question. they're struggling. inflation hit every american in every community in every corner of the country. doesn't matter whether you're working class or middle class, you are affected by it. high gas prices. high food prices. they're having trouble making

end's meet. 23% of americans literally have trouble every two weeks paying their bills because of inflation. we now have almost 40% that can't fill up their car with gas because they can't afford it, a complete tank. and they want to focus on day-to-day concerns. they're nervous in their neighborhoods. they're concerned about their schools. they're tired of politics. they want to focus on day-to-day quality of life issues. that's why they're getting agitated. they're getting upset. yes, i agree with the point, they still like donald trump. but they're tired of focusing on him, and they want the election, they want the concerns to be about themselves and about their future. not about donald trump's past. >> that, of course, grows that much more complicated were trump to join in and declare his candidacy in, say, september ahead of the midterms. political strategist and pollster, frank luntz. thank you. also, josh, we appreciate you

both being here. jerry peters, there has been an effect among some democrats over this primary season to actually support far-right republican candidates, thinking that they might be easier to beat come general election time. this might -- they've gotten a few of them now who are going to be on the ballot in november. is this going to be a case of be careful what you wish for? >> exactly what i was going to say. also, i mean, this is kind of a republican strategy. you know, they have tried this by propping up candidates on the progressive left for a long time who would have a hard time in a general election. i always say that when democrats try to act like republicans, it never works out well for them. i think they should probably come up with their own strategy rather than copying republicans. >> i think they should probably focus on turning out their base on the story they're telling the american people, about why it is

they're having trouble affording basic necessities and what they plan to do about it. and what they plan to do to support democracy, which a lot of voters also care about. how they're going to protect the vote and get us out of this pandemic. >> yeah, that seems to me to be the key issue. stop playing silly politics and save our democracy, it seems to me. >> jerry peters, thank you for joining us this morning. coming up, the world health organization takes drastic measures after 2,000 cases of monkeypox were found in the u.s. alone. what you need to know about the disease that's been declared a global health emergency. we'll be right back. a a global health emergency. ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. we'll be right back. ♪♪ welcome to allstate where anyone who bundles their home

and auto insurance saves. isn't that right phil? sorry, i'm a little busy. what in the world are you doing? i'm in the metaverse, bundling my home and auto insurance. why don't you just do that in the real world? um, because now i can bundle in space. watch this. save up to 25% when you bundle home and auto. call a local agent or 1-888-allstate for a quote today. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ "shake your thang" by salt n pepa snoring? because quality sleep is vital, the sleep number 360 smart bed

can gently raise your partner's head to help. ah...that's better. ♪♪ our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. save 40% on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed queen now only $1,499. ♪♪

is this where your grandparents cut a rug, with a jitterbug? or returned from war, dreaming of the possibilities ahead. ♪♪ where your dad waited for his dad to come home from the factory. is this where they gathered on their front steps, with fats domino on the breeze... ancestry can guide you to family discoveries in the 1950 census. see what you can uncover at ancestry. finding the perfect project manager isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found him. he's in adelaide between his daily lunch delivery and an 8:15 call with san francisco. and you can find him, and millions of other talented pros, right now on upwork.com when a truck hit my car, talented pros, right now the insurance company wasn't fair. on upwork.com i didid't t kn whahatmy c caswa, so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to k how much their accident case is worth.h barnes. t ouour juryry aorneneys hehelpou

the insurance company getenwasn't fair.ity y cablele. i didn't know what my case was worth, so i called the barnes firm. llll theararnes rmrm now the best result possible. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ ddca airport, one of the moe convenient airports.

easy to get to the city from there. the world health organization declared monkeypox an international concern. so far this year, more than 16,000 cases have been reported in at least 68 countries. the united states alone has seen more than 2,500 cases since may. at this point, monkeypox deaths have only occurred in part of africa, where a more dangerous version of the virus is spreading. scientists say monkeypox spreads through close physical contact. it can also spread through respiratory droplets and contaminated items like clothing or bedding. let's bring in dr. gupta, a pulmonologist and nbc news medical contributor. dr. gupgupta, good morning. monkeypox, scary headlines over the weekend from the world health organization. give it to us straight, how worried should we be about this? >> jonathan, good morning. thanks for having me.

you know, monkeypox is a serious condition for those who are infected. yet, the general public is not at the same risk of infection as, say, if they were exposed to covid-19. this is not a similar threat to the general public. let's be clear. the reason why it is transmission dynamics, monkeypox, in general, jonathan, for someone infected, is more likely to develop obvious symptoms. say a painful red rash across the body. they'll know they're infected. is it possible somebody might be asymptomatic, like in covid, causing explosive transmission? as i couldn't know, jonathan, we've talked about this. you can be exposed, infected with covid, not know it and spread it to somebody else. we think it is possible in monkeypox but probably a lot less likely. that's key. number two, if you're infected, you're likely to know it. number three, it requires really close contact. maybe intimate partner contact

even, to really see transmission occur successfully, which is why we're seeing monkeypox specifically in certain groups, like men who have sex with men. that is why this is a serious condition for those infected and at high risk for exposure, but not the general public nearly to the same degree as covid. >> put me down as relieved that asymptomatic monkeypox seems rare, but alarmed that it exists at all. give us a sense, though, as to how it can be prevented or treated. there's vaccines for smallpox, right, that can be used for this? were one to get monkeypox, what does one do? >> so that's the underlying problem. the administration is working to scale up testing. it's about 80,000 tests per week, jonathan. still some delays, anywhere from three to five day on the pcr test, which we're now very well familiar with. it's not as much testing as we need. they're working to scale that up. about 1, 1.5 million doses

approved by the emergency use authorization that have been given to a type of vaccine that was in our strategic national stockpile. we're trying to get more doses, about 1.5 million, by the fall. those who want it are at high risk of exposure. critically, you brought this up, treatment. t-pox is an oral formulation and iv for those who can't take oral. that is really hard to get. right now, we have not -- we don't have the necessary clinical trials to show it is effective, necessarily, in combating monkeypox. it is effective in combating smallpox. the cdc has designated t-pox for use in those positive for monkeypox under a very, very specific classification, compassionate use, making it really hard to get. you have to go through a lot of paperwork, large academic medical centers. it is difficult to get and causing a lot of frustration. >> dr. gupta, to follow up on

that, what is the biden administration going to do to help make this drug, t-pox, more readily available, if it is the one effective treatment? are they going to push the fda to have emergency authorization for use of this therapy? >> that's the tension here. even to go to that designation, beyond compassionate use, meaning we think this drug might work but we don't have the necessary data yet to feel confident we can give it emergency use, that's going to be the tension that the fda faces. do they go to that move right now? do they wait for initial clinical trial day to prove efficacy? i suspect they'll be pressed to move to an eua soon, likely in the next month or so, because that's where the demand is. especially as we go critically to the fall, when, perhaps, now we're seeing a lot more pediatric cases. relative to the share of i a adults, not as much, but parents

are concerned. will this happen more frequently in children? are we not detecting enough cases in the community? are we not testing enough to detect the burden? will we need more vaccines and potentially therapies for children? hopefully the answer to that is children are not going to be nearly as vulnerable to serious infection. right now, all of these treatments and vaccines are only available to those 18 and you were. these are the big questions. i suspect the fda will be under pressure to move to an eua soon. >> questions are going to be coming fast and furious at the biden administration as monkeypox seems to spread. the white house also saying, we should note, president biden's covid symptoms are improving significantly. the president's physician said his symptom now is a sore throat, and today will be biden's fifth full day of treatment with the antiviral drug paxlovid. he remains in isolation at the white house. dr. gupta, seems the white house is encouraged the president continues to feel better. i want you to weigh in, rather,

on where we are as a nation in this pandemic. it seems like cases are just surging right now, even though we know, you know, most of the testing is being done at home. hospitalizations are starting to rise. deaths nowhere near where they were, but it seems like, at least anecdotally, everyone ijo. it does feel like everybody not already exposed are now getting exposed and infected. as a country, where are we in we are at an important point here. cold and flu season, shockingly, is not that far off. the question here is are we ready? as you know, we don't have enough funding right now, the administration doesn't have the funding for scaling of vaccines for all the people who need it. the key point here, ba.5, one of the big differences between this variant and the prior variants is the vaccines, even against serious illness, are not as effective. they're still dramatically

effective at keeping it away from somebody like me, a pulmonologist, but the effectiveness four months out after getting, say, the booster, it goes down. that's a new development relative to, say, even prior variants of omicron, certainly the delta variant. it is important that we have enough funding for boosters for more people. critically, let's face it, 75% of the country is not up to date with their shot. a third of adults have not even gotten one shot, jonathan. therapeutic strategy is going to be key. making sure people are aware that they have a plan to access therapy if they need it. this is why i think physicians should consider, say, a standing order for paxlovid for their high-risk patients who might test positive come november/december. we need -- let me say this about telehealth. we're seeing telehealth rules which were progressive go back to the way they were pre-pandemic. it's a bad thing. 12 states allow out of state

clinicians to care for their residents within the boundaries of their state. we should have the same rules for medical licenses as we do for driver's licenses. you have a valid license, you can practice virtually, in-person, anywhere in the country. that makes medical care easier. telehealth care easier, especially when people need it the most. >> dr. vin gupta, you're full of bad news, but we appreciate you being here. i'm certain we'll speak to you again soon. thank you. up next on "morning joe," more fallout from the supreme court's ruling on abortion. we'll explain how lack of access to abortion increases the chances the mother could die during childbirth. we'll be joined by the directors of the new film which explores how the issue is worse among black women. w th join the fight at alz.org/walk

black women. pool floaties are like whooping cough. amusement parks are like whooping cough. even ice cream is like whooping cough, it's not just for kids. whooping cough is highly contagious for people of any age. and it can cause violent uncontrollable coughing fits. sometimes followed by vomiting and exhaustion. ask your doctor or pharmacist about whooping cough vaccination because whooping cough isn't just for kids.

♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪ ask your doctor or pharmacist about whooping cough vaccination you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card. i would say that to me an important aspect is too... meta portal with smart sound. helps reduce your background noise. bring that sense of calm, really... so you come through, loud and clear. meta portal. the smart video calling device that makes work from home work for you. okay season 6! aw... this'll take forev—or not. do i just focus on when things don't work, and not appreciate when they do? [dog groans] so whatever is at work to pull all this off, it's working. as are those earrings.

♪ ♪ even work works! i just booked this parking spot... this desk... and this conference room! i am filing status reports on an app that i made! i'm not even a coder! and it works!... i like your bag! [people cheer at concert] real-time ticket upgrade! meaning....i get to meet my childhood idol. that works. i named my dog joey fatone. co2 levels-- if i may! all this technology is helping the world work, so you can focus on making the world work better! so i say...lets work! ...or i think that's what we're both saying. when your digital solutions work, the world works. that's why the world works with servicenow. hey! whats good your highness?! with xfinity internet, you get advanced security that helps protect you that home and on the go.ks with servicenow. you feel so safe, it's as if... i don't know... evander holyfield has your back. i wouldn't click on that. hey, thanks! we got a muffin for ed! all right! you don't need those calories.

can we at least split it? nope. advanced security that helps protect your devices in and out of the home. i mean, can i have a bite? only from xfinity. nah. unbeatable internet. made to do anything so you can do anything. with xfinity internet, you get advanced security that helps protect you at home and on the go. you feel so safe, it's as if... i don't know... evander holyfield has your back. i wouldn't click on that. hey, thanks! we got a muffin for ed! all right! you don't need those calories. can we at least split it? nope. advanced security that helps protect your devices in and out of the home. i mean, can i have a bite? only from xfinity. nah. unbeatable internet. made to do anything so you can do anything. this momentum, it's like a wave. we're not letting the pain stop us.

we are holding people who have the most power accountable for how they use it. >> our maternal health community is really pushing for change on capitol hill, trying to bring about different legislation in order to make sure that women have the care that they're supposed to. >> i can't let amber be another statistic. i'm making people aware of what is going on in these systems. >> i planned on spending a lifetime with amber. i wanted to give her my life. this way i'm still going to. >> amber rose, we hear you, we see you. jamani gibson, we hear you, we see you. garrett johnson, we hear you, we see you. >> a new documentary is sounding the alarm on the maternal morbidity crisis facing black women. according to cdc, black women are three times more likely to die in pregnancy or childbirth

than white women here in united states. the film explores how racism played a role in the preven able deaths of shamani gibson. in 2019, her family held what they called an after shock. joining us now, the directors paula and tonya. thank you for being here. tonia, explain the meaning behind that title. >> yeah. good morning. "after shock" comes from the celebration of life of shamani gibson, that her mother and her partner, amari, had for her. as her mother often says, it's the ripple effect that happens after a death of a loved one from childbirth complications. that's the real tremor that's going on. >> tonya, tell us a little more

about why this message, this movie, this film is so important right now, in july 2022. >> yeah, it's interesting. you know, this has been an issue, the high rates of maternal mortality has been an issue for 25 years plus. but right now, it is especially urgent, given the supreme court's overturning of roe v. wade. i'm deeply concerned about the health and wellness of all women in this country, particularly those that are most vulnerable, black women. the overturning of roe makes it more dangerous. i think we'll see more women die from childbirth complications. more women will get delayed care. what we talk about is women, especially black women, are not seen and heard when they feel pain or going through issues. i think this kind of law that dobbs has put into place is going to exacerbate you.

>> could you please tell us what specifically americans should ask hospitals or maybe representatives who are making laws to do about this? what are a few measures that can be taken to prevent these deaths? >> yeah. i think, you know, doctors and providers need to center the birthing certain, seeing them, hearing them, listening to them is the number one thing that they can do in their care. and especially in terms of post partem care, we're the only country that does not have paid family leave or any post partem support for our birthing people and a third of the deaths happen post partem. so i would say take care of women after they leave the hospital. >> the film focuses on the story of 26-year-old amber rose lee, who was from brooklyn and had been complaining and had, before

pregnancy, was diagnosed with low platelet count, and she died four days after an emergency c-section in new york city, america. can you talk about what happened, what went wrong, and how did this 26-year-old woman in america die at childbirth this >> yeah, amber rose isaac's death was tragic. the same with shamani. the issue is that amber had symptoms, wasn't feeling well, she was tired. she felt like she needed to take family medical leave from her job. unfortunately, when she went to her doctor complaining of her symptoms, the doctor dismissed how she was feeling. when you look at the records, you can see that her platelet count was going down, which is a symptom of a condition that is easily treatable, most -- people

get this, but most women do not die from it. but in amber's case, she went looking for help and was not seen or heard. and by the time they got to this -- the emergency c-section, it was just too late to save her life. and this is a case that happens to too many women, given the black maternal mortality rate here in country. >> yeah. paula, if you are a black woman or really any person who is pregnant in the united states, listening to this right now, what do you do when you are coming up with a birth plan, so to speak, and thinking about how to keep yourself safe in pregnancy? here in new york, black women are eight to ten times more likely to die in childbirth, a wealthy city. so what do you do, call a friend who is an obgyn, is that the only way to keep yourself safe? what are the specific steps to make sure you're in good hands?

>> first and foremost, women to know, especially black women, that there is choice here. it's not -- birth is not a one size fits all. you have choice. you can choose a midwife, what hospital you birth in. and the great thing is many states are starting to cover dula care. but having an advocate in especially a hospital with you is really, really key. and you can pave your path with birth. for 85% of low-risk women, you don't have to birth in a hospital, there are birthing centers, we need more of them. but there are other ways that you can birth and get the support that you need. >> this important film now available on hulu. paula and tonya, thank you so much for being with us today. still ahead, after last week's bombshell hearings by the january 6th committee, what's

next? could the wife of a supreme court justice soon be making an appearance in front of the committee? congressman adam kinzinger is back with that. adam kinzinger i back with that

welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, july 25th, it is 8:00. we begin this hour with some news made yesterday by congresswoman liz cheney, the vice chair of the january 6th select committee, about the committee's interest in interviewing ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas. >> the committee is engaged with her counsel. we certainly hope that she will agree to come in voluntarily, but the committee is fully prepared to contemplate a subpoena if she does not. i hope it doesn't get to that. i hope she will come in voluntarily. we have spoken with numbers of

people who are similarly situated in terms of the discussions that she was having, that you mentioned. so it's very important for us to speak with her, and as i said, i hope she will agree to do so voluntarily. but i'm sure we will contemplate a subpoena. >> she sent several emails to mark meadows and exchanged e-mails with john eastman, who pushed an illegal plan to overturn the election. and emails to 30 lawmakers in arizona, calling on them to help overturn trump's loss in that battleground state. last month, thomas responded to speculation the committee would call her to testify, saying, i can't wait to clear up misconceptions. i look forward to talking to them. but her lawyer has pushed back against voluntary talking to the panel, asking lawmakers to give a better justification for her testimony. joining us now, a member of the

select committee, congressman adam kinzinger. thank you for being here. let's start there with ginni thomas, what is the committee doing to compel her to testify? >> right now, we always go through this process where we have negotiations with counsel or we far prefer somebody to come in voluntarily. you know, it's always better for the conversation. we never want anything to start off on kind of a confrontation or hostile position. but she had made it clear, as you mentioned in the opening there, that she was eager to come talk to us. and now doesn't seem so eager. this started out a year ago when we began to see evidence of her involvement as intriguing, in terms of who she talked to, but her role as only grown as you mentioned. so if we need to, we will subpoena her and get the information. we're not out to get anybody. we're out to get information and get that information to the american people.

>> how much time will you give her to voluntarily come in? at what point do you decide it's time for a subpoena? >> we have counsel that work for us, they're professionals. they know when they're being strung along or it's legitimate negotiations, and they've done a good job knowing when it's time to move on a subpoena. we understand that we need this information as soon as we can. we understand that we've been at this investigation for about a year now. and we're getting more and more information in. when that time is right, we'll do it. again, we hope it's voluntary. she made it clear through the media she was eager to do that. >> so beyond ginni thomas, who else are you hoping to speak to here in the weeks ahead? the committee seems to be taking a pause for august, but talk of another hearing in september. give us your wish list. >> well, i mean, from what we can talk about publicly, what's out there publicly, we still

need some information from the secret service. we have this question of what happened to these text messages, maybe nefarious, maybe not. we want answers to that. we heard through anonymous sources in the media that the secret service agents, when cassidy hutchinson talked about the heated argument in the limo, the president's beast, that they were eager to talk to us. we haven't been able to talk to them either. we have our doors wide open. they just have to do it under oath. that, on top of -- we just have a lot of people coming forward with pieces of the puzzle, maybe cassidy hutchinson or sarah matthews inspired them. so we're going to work on beginning to write our report but keep this investigation wide open and getting more and more information. >> congressman, just to follow up on what you said about the secret service agents in the

vehicle and you're referring to the former deputy chief of staff and their testimony. you could easily subpoena them. you said last week you believe it was a hard no they weren't cooperating. yet the secret service head said they were fully cooperating and released a statement. how do you resolve that discrepancy? >> look, there's a lot of details when it comes to how do we compel testimony from the secret service. obviously, secret service has a very unique job. but particularly through anonymous sources the secret service is saying they'll come in and push back against cassidy hutchinson, and then we put forward witnesses that actually corroborate what she said. by the way, cassidy was just talking about somewhat she had heard in the first place. we said look, come on in and testify. they haven't as of yet. i can't square of the box of some people saying we're cooperating and we're not. we welcome them in, but they

have to do it under oath. because we don't take information through anonymous sources. >> both secret service agents have testified under oath in video testimony already. do you think that the speculation on your part is helpful that they, you know, unless you can share with us what the deliberations actually are, is this kind of speculation helpful just because there is so much disinformation out there about what's really happening? >> no, i agree with you on that. i think there is a ton of disinformation. but the problem here, is and this is kind of donald trump and his company's m.o., they will take a very credible witness and find a piece of the story they think they can discredit. in this case with cassidy, she said she heard something that happened, and they had tried to discredit her through that. in fact, used anonymous sources quoting, you know, so to speak, these secret service members, and now we're pushing back, and there's no answer to that.

i think that is important when you try to impeach the credibility of a witness, not to mention the vast amount of misinformation going around on the internet, include thing idea of ray epps being an fbi informant and everything else. so yes, on the one hand, you don't want to feed disinformation. on the other hand, you have to sometimes look and say here is information that is being useed to widely discredit things and you have to push back on that. >> congressman, i want to pan out for a quick second. the committee has done an amazing job in terms of showing the american public the through line, narrating the moving parts of what happened january 6th. what would it mean for american democracy if donald trump is not prosecuted by the doj? >> look, my opinion, i can't do the doj's job, as a not-lawyer. there's all kinds of threshold

questions. but we never want to get to a position in a country where we prosecute last administrations because that's what failed democracies do. but if a failed coup, and an obvious coup attempt, and a president that didn't just choose not to act but willfully watched to see where the mob would go for three hours on january 6th, if he is not held accountable through law, i fear that that is a far worse precedent than anything else. i think it's essential for doj to at least run all the way up, all the information they can, make the determination if they can and should indict. but i've got to tell you, if we just wash this under the rug and say for the sake of the country, let's put this aside, there's going to be somebody else, whether it's donald trump in 2024 or somebody else somewhere down the line that recognizes that as the floor of their behavior and pushes even more. and we can't survive that. >> congressman, one of the more compelling figures we heard from

on thursday was white house counsel pat cipollone, who is -- was able to evoke some executive pr privilege, give us the latest on how the committee aims to work around some of that claim to get even more from such an important figure in this probe. >> we have a very long interview with him, eight hours. i think what's been out there publicly is just a fraction of that. there's stuff that corroborates maybe parts of other hearings we have already had. and so if we need to talk to them again, we'll ask. but we had a very thorough investigation, and now, you know, we continue to want to hear from other people that may know more. but i think what's obvious here is i think we have put a lot of pieces together with a lot of evidence. our job in congress is to come forward with recommendations to show the american people the truth. particularly as a republican, i want to tell other republicans you've been abused to and lied to by your leaders that know the

truth but they would rather abuse you to stay in power. that's what is important. it's now up to doj to full in all those pieces. the fact that we have brought so much information forward that they didn't know, i am curious what were they doing for the last year and a half? but now that it does appear that there is some movement, you know, good. we'll see what happens. >> you mentioned that democracy itself would be in jeopardy were trump not to be potentially prosecuted. it seems like most members of your party are still standing with him. the poll numbers are dipped just a little and we have seen a few voices like mike pence say they're going to run for president. but the vast majority of the gop still seems willing to follow donald trump. what is your take on the state of the republican party, that could be the case in spite everything the hearings have laid out? >> the state of the party is a

disaster. look, there are -- there are anecdotal -- i have people that tell me, hey, my dad was addicted to fox news, never thought anything wrong with donald trump. now he hates him. i hear anecdotal things like that. there are movements that are occurring. i think in the medium and the long-term, donald trump will be persona nongrata in this country because of this. but it takes leaders. i always thought when you got elected to congress, this is my naivety as a kid, that you come out here to lead. but leadership is rare in this job, and people are more interested in maintaining the title. look, you have republicans that only trust republican leaders. and when there's only two republican leaders that are currently elected that are telling you the truth, it's easy to demonize us. we're not the ones lying to us, fellow republican voters, it's

the people too scared to tell you the truth. all i can do is say truth and i'll do that any day of the week. >> we appreciate your candor. member of the january 6th select committee, republican congressman adam kinzinger, thank you very much for being with us today. >> you bet. take care. so pretty big day tomorrow, a blockbuster, soon to be best seller is going to hit the market. you traced the origins of the big lie, as you very appropriately titled your book. tell us a little bit about that, how did the big lie start at the very beginning of even donald trump's candidacy, and fester to bring us to this colonel moment? >> tables have turned here i see. i should note my big is out tomorrow, but available for preorder now. but the big lie long predates the 2020 election and the events of january 6th. the story -- my book, i tell the

story of its origin. it traces how the big lie evolved. it began in many ways at a sleepy rally in columbus, ohio, in august of 2016. it was a noon rally. i was there as a campaign reporter for the associated press. that was the first time where trump said he did not believe the general election that fall would be conducted fairly. he had earlier in iowa complained that the gop and ted cruz might be rigging the game, but that was very different. this was about the very tenants, the most sacred tenant of this democracy not being conducted fairly. we all watched or covered hundreds of trump rallies that he would throw things out to see if they stick, and this one did. he repeated it on tv and in rallies ever since. we know that the first general election debate with hillary clinton, he said he would not

honor the results of the election and said again that he was not sure it was going to be conducted fairly. and these were seeds that were planted. though he won the election the next month, these were seeds that took hold and eventually blossomed, you know, going into and led to what we saw in 2020. >> the book is a page turner. first of all, congratulations. anyone who wants to understand the complexity of this current moment, the intricate nature of the lie, the architecture, who are the folks that push it. i think they need to read the book. i know they should read the book. there is this moment with roger stone in the very beginning, because you have the lie, this moment where he's testing stuff. but then there is the way in which the lie becomes the big lie. what is he doing? >> there's an overlooked moment, roger stone, who was trump's first political adviser, who was at that point not formally on

the campaign but very much in trump's ear. he gives an interview soon after trump says this in ohio, to breitbart news, steve bannon's breitbart news, which he says that trump needs to get out there and say, if i haven't won, that means it was rigged. look at the polls. he used florida as an example, i'm winning, and if election night it said the results are that i lost, don't acknowledge that. just say that you have won. and if need be, there will be violence to back that up. so that was more than four years ahead of what we saw on january 6th. but the template was already being created. and we saw that trump, even after winning that election, let's remember he launched a voter fraud commission, the power of the white house, to look into what he said must have been widespread fake ballots across the country, because he lost the popular vote that. commission kind of went without

produing much evidence. but it was a sign that he was going to use the power of the presidency to bolster his own election standing. >> and whatever happened to that commission in 2017, back in the day, just ancient history. we might learn about that tomorrow maybe. >> yes. this is, indeed, the big lie week here on "morning joe," i'm happy to say. thanks to you guys for that. we'll talk more about the book tomorrow. still ahead on "morning joe" today, incitement by silence. we'll read from a scathing new editorial that says donald trump is unworthy of re-election. and what's most striking, it comes from one of the ex-president's favorite newspapers. what it could mean for his could be candidacy straight ahead on "morning joe." be we've still got the best moves you've ever seen good for you, but shingles doesn't care.

because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. "morning joe." shingrix protects. you can protect yourself from shingles with a vaccine proven to be over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your pharmacist or doctor about shingrix. shingles doesn't care. but you should.

your mission: stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis and... take. it. on. with rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. it can stop irreversible joint damage. and rinvoq can leave skin clear or almost clear in psa. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease

risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. ask your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. rinvoq. make it your mission. learn how abbvie could help you save on rinvoq. bubbles bubbles so many bubbles! as an expedia member you earn points on your travels, and that's on top of your airline miles. so you can go and see... or taste or do absolutely nothing with all those bubbles. without ever wondering if you're getting the most out of your trip. because you are.

it's not just me that is saying that donald trump is up fit for office, it's other

entities owned by rupert murdoch, it's "the new york post," "the wall street journal" said the same thing after our hearing thursday night. so i'm going to continue to be guided by making sure i do my duty, and making sure that the american people understand the truth. >> you heard congresswoman cheney refer to the two editorials from rupert murdoch owned news outlets against donald trump. one from "the new york post," and the other from "the wall street journal." the editorial titled "the president who stood silent on january 6th" begins like this -- january 6th" begin s like this --

>> meanwhile, "the new york post" went even further with its editorial with this headline. they write in part this --

>> charlie sykes, i'm going to guess you don't disagree with much of that. i want to get your take on it. but more than that, give us your analysis of the significance of where these editorials appeared, and two, rupert murdoch owned outlets, he also owns fox news. they have been extraordinarily friendly to donald trump

throughout most of his tenure. there seems to be signs that's changes. >> i do agree with those editorials, and they are very much on point. my one quibble would be that donald trump was not silent on january 6th. he was on the phone, and he was putting out tweets that were targeting vice president mike pence. it was worse than a der election of duty. but i guess most of us on the panel were old enough to remember when newspaper editorials had some clout or nance, or maybe they never did. but it is significant that rupert murdoch's publications would publish these editorials. but the reality is, fox news is far more influen shall than "the new york post." as eddie mentioned about the wyoming primary, we need to understand the mood among the republican reelectorate. night after night, murdoch's

cable show is propping up trump, and i don't think you'll see an appreciable difference. just to make a note here, fox news had not reported on those editorials until liz cheney brought them up on fox news yesterday. so once again, liz cheney rather remarkable performance pointing out that the boss of the folks, the owner of the company, in fact has taken this particular position. but i wouldn't read too much into it in terms of the impact that it's going to have, except that we do have the drip, drip, drip of republicans thinking, you know, can we just move on from this freak show? coming up, late last year, joe biden got a firsthand look at the future, touring gm's new factory zero electric car plant in michigan. he even test drove one of gm's new electric hummers which goes

zero to 60 in three seconds, something the president put to the test. we'll talk to gm's president about the push to go green, straight ahead on "morning joe." . i'm trending so hard that “hashtag common sense” can't keep up. this is going to get tens and tens of views. ♪ straight ahead on "morning joe., you could be left to pay for this... yourself. get allstate and be better protected from mayhem for a whole lot less.

a monster was attacking but the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose. so we need something super distinctive... dad's work, meet daughter's playtime.

thankfully, meta portal auto pans and zooms to keep you in frame. and the meeting on track. meta portal. the smart video calling device that makes work from home work for you. ♪♪ my relationship with my credit cards wasn't good. i got into debt in college and, no matter how much i paid, it followed me everywhere. between the high interest, the fees... i felt trapped. debt, debt, debt. so i broke up with my credit card debt and consolidated it into a low-rate personal loan from sofi. i finally feel like a grown-up. break up with bad credit card debt. get a personal loan with no fees, low fixed rates, and borrow up to $100k. go to sofi.com to view your rate. sofi. get your money right. ♪♪ flowers are fighters. sofi. get your money right. that's why the alzheimer's association

walk to end alzheimer's is full of them. because flowers find a way to break through. just like we will. join the fight at alz.org/walk seen this ad? it's not paid for by california tribes. it's paid for by the out of state gambling corporations that wrote prop 27. it doesn't tell you 90% of the profits go to the out of state corporations. a tiny share goes to the homeless, and even less to tribes. and a big loophole says, costs to promote betting reduce money for the tribes, so they get less. hidden agendas. fine print. loopholes. prop 27. they didn't write it for the tribes or the homeless. they wrote it for themselves.

welcome back. we want to take some time now to remember the prolific life and career of mika's mother, emily brzezinski. she passed away on friday, five years after her husband. while the two were known around the nation's capital, mika's mom was far more comfortable on the family farm. "morning joe" produced this profile a few years back and thought it would be a fitting tribute today. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> emily was certainly not like any other of the other moms i knew, not even close. do you remember us being very embarrassed by you? >> all the time you were embarrassed by me. i think it was very difficult for children to grow up with an artist mother. i mean, they really did -- like mark wanted me in high heels. otherwise i'm not a mother. >> how do you differentiate between playing the role of a wife and a mother, and an artist? and is there a difference or a priority? when it comes to the identity of you as a person? >> well, for me, i do what's in front of me, what is most important. i prioritize, and usually everything works out just fine. >> really? really? did we ever compete with your desire to do your art?

>> no, no. >> what about dad? >> that's a different problem. [ laughter ] >> that problem was managing the role of a white house wife, since my father served as national security adviser under president carter. while he always didn't make it easy, he knew he married an artist, who would then become a wife and a mother. but who would they have leave her trees behind. >> it's always been in her. it's always wanted to come out, but she has a lot of other things to do. children, a kind of preoccupying husband. >> really? >> but she persisted and she's been very creative. >> he helps me, too. for me, he is the common man. i said what is getting across in this vision? and he tells me very honestly what he thinks. sometimes i don't like to hear it, but he tells it to me. that's what i appreciate. >> my mom may be her own toughest critic. >> i can't say that i'm proud of my work, but i like some of it

more than others. and i like for example, this is a very appealing figure. >> emily is so passionate about her work, she spends most of her time across that bridge from her kitschen in mclain, virginia, climbing down those steep steps into the studio that's been her world for the past 40 years. >> i was working in large size before i built the studio. then i realized this could no longer go on. it was just too awkward for me to work on these big pieces. >> what drives you to spend that kind of time in the studio? >> first of all, what drives me is a dream, an idea. but the second thing is, i just love to be in my studio. and i love all the sawdust and the smells that come from the wood. it's something which is really very pleasurable.

this is a very instinctive process. i don't think too much when i'm cutting. i just go at it. whatever shape presents itself, i just do what is needed. not much rational thought goes into it. it's exhilarating. yes, actually, when i get going, and the work is going well, the work is exhilarating and i enjoy it. it leaves me feeling, i guess the word would be a little high. >> while she may consider herself a wife and mother, it is the artist that brings her to life. >> all the lines, all the striations, and the deep cuts were done at the last minute in a very kind of emotional effort. i'm very happy with this sculpture. >> i have to tell you that i -- all my life, i can't say in the beginning, i got this. i can't say when she was climbing trees on my school

property i fully understood the scope of this. but as i have become a wife and mother myself, and i saw how she defied -- quite frankly, she defied gravity to be able to find her way to thrive, i can't be more impressed with any other person on the face of this earth than my mother, emily brzezinski. [ applause ] >> thank you. >> emily brzezinski was 90 years old. emily brzezinski was 90 yes old. ♪♪

voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ i would say that to me an important aspect is too... meta portal with smart sound. helps reduce your background noise. bring that sense of calm, really... so you come through, loud and clear. meta portal. the smart video calling device that makes work from home work for you. 80% of couples sleep too hot or too cold. because quality sleep is vital, the sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing, so you both stay cool. our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. save 40% on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed queen now only $1,499.

my little family is me, aria, and jade. just the three of us girls. i never thought twice about feeding her kibble. but about two years ago, i realized she was overweight. she was always out of breath. that's when i decided to introduce the farmer's dog to her diet. it's just so fresh that she literally gets bubbles in her mouth. now she's a lot more active she's able to join us on our adventures. and we're all able to do things as a family. ♪♪ get started at longlivedogs.com flowers are fighters. that's why the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's is full of them. because flowers find a way to break through. just like we will. join the fight at alz.org/walk

["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish]

russian missiles hit the city of odesa just hours after kyiv and moscow reached a deal to resume exporting grain from the ukrainian port city. regional officials say two cruise missiles hit the port saturday, destroying a docked ukrainian ship and other infrastructure. two other missiles were shot

down by ukraine's air defense. president zelenskyy denounced the attack and said that it "destroyed the possibility of a dialogue with russia." u.s. secretary of state antony blinken condemned the strike, saying it casts serious doubt on moscow's credibility to that agreement. meanwhile, new details are emerging about the harrowing conditions of hundreds of ukrainian fighters and civilians faced when they were trapped inside a steel factory in the port city of mariupol for 80 days. this was an extraordinary piece that ran in "the new york times." it writes -- n "the new york times. it writes --

>> despair set in. people in the bunkers went weeks out seeing light or breathing clean air. people became cruel, occasionally fighting. some became so desperate for an escape, they began to drink from the bottles of alcohol-infused hand sanitizer installed during the covid pandemic. and i encourage everyone to read this piece. it is gut wrenching. richard, this missile strike comes just a short time after the governments of russia and ukraine seem to strike a deal to allow more grain to come out of the country. ukraine one of the breadbaskets of the world. real fears of a food shortage in africa and other places. and yet, as we have seen so many times before, russia's word can't be trusted.

>> it's not clear why the russians engaged in the diplomacy with the united nations and turkey, and within 24 hours the russians have violated it. so what's going on? was this -- was the whole thing a tease or a show? was this a mistake? someone wasn't author'sed to do it? was it a one off? we don't know, and the u.n. and turkey, are they going to resurrect this deal? it's important for ukraine and the world. big parts of africa have food shortages. the lack of food stuffs is severe. we could have another arab spring in the middle east. so the stakes here are enormous. the bottom line is we don't quite understand why this deal unraveled within 24 hours of being signed. what is the russian or putin agenda? we'll find out in the next couple of days whether this can be revived. if so, good. if not, we are where we were. one other big piece of news was

the zelenskyy interview with "the wall street journal." what he basically said was, we are not interested in a cease-fire. we are not interested in any situation that gives a pause so the russians can rebuild why they sit on our lands and rebuild militarily. i thought that was interesting. it showed we're open to diplomacy, obviously, but not diplomacy that helps the russia and hurts us. >> on that point, though we're at the end of july, before we know it, winter will be here. and there's a sense that u.s. officials say there will be this pause for six weeks, two months, whatever it might be, there there won't be much fighting because of the conditions. whatever territory the russians have at that moment, they'll be able to keep. so the clock is ticking. >> that's likely to happen anyhow. both sides are going to have trouble sustain thing level of intensity. so you'll have this open ended war going into russia, but the intensity of the battle will begin to dial down. the other thing that will happen

as we get closer to the winter is how the europeans react to gas cutouts. there was a bad development there. the fall of the government was a real crack in western solidarity. the alternatives to him are right-wing, pro russian forces. so really dangerous. questions in germany. putin has decided that time is his friend, that he can use time to test the fabric of western solidarity, to grind ukraine down, to grind nato down. and i think we have to, again, reset our calendar, reset our clock for what will be a long war. putin has decided it will help him. >> richard, that's what i wanted to ask you about, are we just looking at a long-term insurgency in these contested areas? if president zelenskyy doesn't want to concede territory, and vladamir putin doesn't show any signs of slowing down his assault, then is this just going to be an ongoing conflict without resolution where the

west is fueling and shipping in arms and also russia is able to reconstitute their forces, too? >> the russians may have some trouble. it's not clear where they will get the help from. that's the one area sanctions might be making a difference. but yes, this war has been going on since 2014. this is not so much a new war but chapter two of an existing war. you can have a conventional war with military on military engagements, but in some areas you can have more of an insurgency, where ukraine tries to undermine russian occupation in the way that insurgents have done throughout history. so a classic war and a guerrilla war simultaneously quite possibly for years to come. >> and right now, no shortage of commitment from the united states to send money and weapons, but europe, that will be a greater question. >> and also done the road in the

united states. this is big bucks. billions and billions of dollars. what will be interesting in both parties, we have seen signs of it in the republican party, whether you have people saying enough of ukraine, we have real problems here at home. we have done more than enough for them. we have to focus on ourselves. a version of the old guns versus butter debate could open up in this country. it's something that vladamir putin is hoping for. >> as a u.s. official put to me over the weekend, the money is not running out, but it's not unlimited either. coming up, a live interview with one of the president's topped a vitzers. we'll talk about those falling gas prices and the big question surrounding the possible threat of a recession. "morning joe" is coming right back. recession "morning joe" is coming right "morning joe" is coming right back

finding the perfect developer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found her. she's in prague, between the perfect cup of coffee and her museum of personal computers. and you can find her, and millions of other talented pros, right now on upwork.com snoring? because quality sleep is vital, the sleep number 360 smart bed can gently raise your partner's head to help. ah...that's better. talented pros, right now our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. save 40% on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed queen now only $1,499.

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ "shake your thang" by salt n pepa moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash.

but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day, that's effective without topical steroids. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. plus, they felt fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. [zoom call] ...pivot... work bye. vacation hi! book with priceline. 'cause when you save more, you can “no way!” more. no wayyyy. no waaayyy!

no way! [phone ringing] hm. no way! no way! priceline. every trip is a big deal. alright, limu, give me a socket wrench, pliers, and a phone open to libertymutual.com they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need... and a blowtorch. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ it has been five years since

a bombshell report rattled los angeles and kicked off one of the city's biggest scandals. it started with this l.a. times report about a drug overdose in one of the city's hotels which seemed to be connected to usc medical school dean at the time. that former dean, dr. car man, was often seen with celebrities and hollywood executives outside of the school but it was soon discovered that he also rubbed elbows with criminals while using and supplying drugs like meth to several young people. including the one who overdosed. that report soon led to a series of exposes for los angeles times becoming the first of several usc scandals uncovered and it is all part of a brand-new book entitled kwd bad city," and join us now is the book's author paul pringle. he specialized in government, corporate and labor corruption.

congrats on the book and thanks for joining us. this has captivated southern california for a long time but not well-known for the rest of the country. give us a brief synopsis of who this dean was and what happened with this roefr dose and what it led to. >> he was the dean if the medical school of southern california and a very powerful and influential person in los angeles. given the fact that usc is such a major institution in l.a. and i got a tip back in 2016 about this overdose and that led me to this, and later my colleagues, to this very long investigation where we uncovered one after another and had trouble in our own news rule getting this published and i wrote a book because that is the only way to bring everything out that happened here. and how these major institutions in l.a., which are charged with protecting people did just the

opposite. families were nearly destroyed. hundreds of young women were sexually exploited allegedly. so that is what really is at the center of the book. >> so paul, you just alluded to it, the challenges getting it published in the los angeles times. explain what you mean by those road blocks? >> well, initially and later my colleagues who joined me in this story, we encountered cover-ups, the police department was responsible for the overdose and usc completely she me out. and then we have a lot of story getting the story published. there was delays in the story coming out. it was watered down at the last moment and that is something that my reporter colleagues and i had to fight to make sure this story got out. >> your book talks about the usc medical dean carman pulifito.

>> yes. >> and his issues with meth. and i remembered this story from the press because it was a particularly horrifying death of a baby in question, from a mother who was breast feeding and was shown to have methamphetamine in her breast milk and the dean ended up being the provider of the methamphetamine. is that one of the stories that you talk about in this book? >> yes. he denies that, being a provider of the methamphetamine. there was an investigation by the sheriff's department and in the end he wasn't charged. but this is part of a larger story of this dean who was providing drugs to a circle of young people, very young, vulnerable people and in the initial case he almost destroyed this very typical american family whose parents did

everything they can to extricate they're daughter and later their son from the circle. and everywhere they turned, they were not given help. the police, later on district attorney's office, at one point the fbi, and then finally found through a very great whistleblower, they found the l.a. times, or we found them. and that is when they finally got some justice. were finally able to get their daughter and their son out of the clutches of this dean. >> hi, this is eddie glaude. i'm sorry. >> well that is one thing that i hope the book -- people take away from the book, that just how important investigative journalism is to their communities, for people who are denied justice everywhere else, if we're often the last resort to get some of that justice and that is what happened in this case. >> thank you so much for the book. what is it about usc, i teach in a university setting and there

is a sense in which usc seems to be a particular kind of place, at least in the way you describe it in the book. talk a little bit about the distinctive nature of this institution in los angeles. >> yeah, it has had an incredible run of scandals. of course, it was disproportionately involved in the varsity blues scandal, the bribes for admission scandal. and i think it is started off as a private institution. it is not subject to the same kind of disclosure of laws that public universities are. and it operated at -- and again i'm talking about the administration. not the folks in the classrooms and the laboratories. this is all many about people that supported the business and not an institution of higher learning and that sent them down the wrong path. and again it was just one scandal after another and the largest is in certainly modern

in american academia. >> the book is "bad sit, peril and power in the city of angels." paul pringle, thank you and good luck with the book. we're approaching the top of the hour. the fourth of "morning joe" on this monday. i'm jonathan lemire. elise jordan is still with us as is professor at princeton university eddie glaude jr. joe, mika and willie all have the morning off. we have a lot to get to this hour as we come up on 9:00 a.m., including former president trump and his vice president scaring off in arizona over the weekend. a potential preview of what could be a 2024 showdown. we'll have the latest for you. also ahead, president biden is on the mend following last week's covid-19 diagnosis. we're going to have a live report from the white house. the very latest on his condition. plus a russian missile attacked on a ukraine port one day after

the u.n. brokered an agreement to alleviate a mounting global food crisis. we'll go live to odessa and speak with mikie sherrill fresh off her visit to kyiv and a pleating with president zelenskyy. and a all electric future. a automaker is embarking on the most ambitious shift in over a hundred years. president of general motors will be here to explain. but we begin with the latest from the january 6 select committee you having the want to interview ginny thomas, wife of clarence thomas. she sent messages to mark meadows questioning the results of the 2020 election. she also exchanged emails with trump's lawyer john eastman who pushed an illegal plot to overturn the election. it comes as liz cheney, one the only two republicans serving on the committee went on fox news yesterday to defend its work. she exposed the network audience

to former president trump's role in the capitol riot even noting a key editorial from the right-wing new york post which shares the same owner as fox slamming trump as unworthy to become president again. cheney also pushed back on a talking point that some republicans have been using to shift the focus on the law enforcement response to the riot. questioning house minority leader kevin mccarthy and placing the blame squarely on trump's role that day. >> it is an entire focus of the investigation, will you see in our report, you will likely see in upcoming hearings and so it is certainly something that we're very focused on. but what we aren't going to do, brett, is blame the capitol police, blame those in law enforcement for donald trump's armed mob that he sent to the capitol. kevin mccarthy decided not to participate in the committee that somehow the house of representatives cannot investigate the single worse