the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. thanks, my friend. much appreciated. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. have you ever heard of a man named gerald l.k. smith? if you haven't, you are forgiven. he is no longer a famous figure. but in his day, he was a famous-ish guy. a preacher and political figure. at one point, he ran for senate in michigan, as a republican. in 1944, he ran for president against fdr. he ran on the ticket of the america first party, which he had founded. he did not get far with that presidential bid or the michigan senate bid as a republican either. if he is remembered for anything today it is probably for this, this is a statue that he erected in arkansas in 1960s, christ of the ozarks, it was the subject of a suspiciously huge

fundraising operation, he died in 1976 but that statue still stands in arkansas today. but he is about to have another moment in the public eye. because what he really wanted to be remembered for, even more than that statue, was a nationwide movement that he tried to build. a movement that he named. and that he led. and that he promoted tirelessly. and that he wanted to outlive him. >> the motive behind the term christian nationalist is easy to define and simple to interpret. we believe that the destiny of america in relationship to its governing authority must be kept in the hands of our own people. we must never be governed by anyone. we must keep control of our own money and our own blood. in other words, we must remain

true to the declaration of independence. that is nationalism. we believe that the spiritual symbol of our statesmanship is the cross, which indeed is the symbol of christianity. we believe that the inspiring dynamic out of which america grew is christianity. we believe that there would be no real america sum as we love and for which we are willing to die if there had been no christianity. this, when a christian is a nationalist, he becomes necessarily a christian nationalist. >> a christian nationalist. that was gerald l.k. smith speaking in the 1950s. a sort of pseudo printer and a political figure on the american right. he was the spokesman and the founder for this movement that he called christian nationalism. and if that is ringing a bell for you at all, if it feels, despite the, you know, annoying music bed with that speech and

the guy's weird speaking style, and all that, if that language theme feels like it rhymes a little bit, with today's news, you are right about that. >> first of all, we really need to recognize the people they represent, okay, they're voters, not the lobbyist donor, not the corporate pacs, not those people, that's not who the republican party should represent, we need to be the party of nationalism and i'm a christian and i say it proudly, a christian nationalist. >> we should be christian nationalists. we are seeing that, that phrase, and that sort of branding from the trumpiest members of congress, republican congressman marjorie taylor greene and all over the place in headlines now in the way the trumpiest part of the republican party is kind of branding itself these day, christian nationalism on the rise in republican campaign, christian nationalism is reshaping the republican party.

the reason this christian nationalism thing is an awkward fit, the reason it is maybe not going to be an easy path for today's republican party, or at least it shouldn't be an easy path for today's republican party to bring this back, is because they're not inventing this phrase for the first time. and we're not looking at history, we know what it meant the last time. christian nationalism is not a new concept. it is not a new american right wing political concept. the reason this ought to be awkward to try to bring it back because the last time as a country we tried that on, with guys gerald l.k. smith leading the way, they were not shy in saying exactly what they meant by it. i will play you a little more gerald l.k. smith, i apologize in advance for the annoying music coming back but also specifically for the content of what you're about to hear him say. >> subversive force, exploiting

sentimental knitwit, our reading into the constitution a code of conduct which threatens to mongrelize our race, destroy our racial self respect, and enslave the white man. fight mongrelization and all attempts being made to force the inter mixture of the black and white races. preserve america as a christian nation, being conscious of the fact that there is a highly organized campaign to subs pute the jewish tradition for the christian tradition. the most powerful jewish organization in america is the anti-defamation league, which has launched a campaign to remove from all public schools any song book which contains a christmas carol or any other hymn that has the name of jesus. >> they're coming for the kids. coming for the public schools. they've infiltrated the public schools with their anti-christian -- christian nationalist. gerald l.k. smith, the leader of the christian nationalist

movement speaking in the 1950s. he was the leader of that movement in this country in the world war ii era around the time he was running for president. he was also a leader of that movement in the post world war ii era. i have to tell you what i just played you, that is kind of the mild stuff from him. the stuff about the jews taking over the world and how americans need to be christian nationalist because only that can stop the worldwide jewish conspiracy, not to mention all of the race mixing, that sound i just play is the milder version of what gerald l.k. smith was famous for. he was a virulent, violent, racist and anti-semitic and that was the core of his movement, christian nationalism and you would think it would be hard for christian nationalists to raises a their new banner today. you would think it would be a hard thing. they don't have any qualms. particularly from the trumpiest members of congress and

particularly from the republican nominee from pennsylvania, doug mastriano a case study for months now and republicans trying to pull off their gerald l.k. smith to make the republican party the christian nationalist party that he always wanted and spent all of those decades to create. a paid consultant for the mastriano campaign, the republican nominee for pennsylvania, the republican party has chosen him to be the candidate for governor, it is making headlines today, thanks to the watchdog group media matters starting to document this guy's own pronouncements on the threat of the jews. and on the christian nationalist movement, as represented by candidates like his guy, republican doug mastriano. >> so no, we don't want people who are atheists, we don't want people who are jewish, this is an explicitly christian movement

because this is an explicitly christian country. now we're not saying that, you know, we're going to deport all these people or whatever, you're free to stay here, right, you're not going to be forced to convert or anything like this, but you're going to enjoy the fruits of living in a christian society under christian laws. >> the consultant on the campaign for republican nominee for governor of pennsylvania doug mastriano clarifying, clarifying that it's not the plan to forcibly deport the jews, just to be clear, that's not the plan for now, but jews are not wanted, jews are not part of the movement that this new republican governor in pennsylvania represents. so jews, atheists, people of other faith, they won't be forcibly converted or deported, now, that's not the plan for now, it's just that this is not for them in this country.

doug mastriano is the republican candidate for pennsylvania governor. the democratic candidate for pennsylvania governor is josh shapiro, currently the attorney general and he will be our guest in a few minutes tonight and we will get his response to that and more. it's been a busy news day. actually a busy few days. since the last january 6th hearing prime time on thursday night, set off a bunch of proverbial bombshells, particularly on the right and in the republican politics. today, one of the members of the january 6th investigation, posted online some additional footage from depositions and witness statements about president trump's statement to the country on january 7th, which was the day after the attack by trump supporters on the u.s. capitol. we heard a little bit about this so far from the january 6th investigation. we know from testimony previously by the investigation that part of the reason that

trump agreed to make a statement on january 7th, part of the reason he decided to make a somewhat conciliatory statement about the attack that happened the day after is because he had been advised that if he didn't do something like that, he might be thrown out of office immediately, the cabinet and the vice president really did seem ready to force him out of office, using the 25th amendment of the constitution by which they could declare him unfit and force him out. there's been testimony from the investigation thus far that trump agreed reluctantly to give a speech on january 7th basically to fend off that possibility. he agreed to give a speech saying sort of, in enough of a way that maybe the violent riot the capitol building wasn't a totally awesome thing. i charactered his feelings about it, because we sort of earned the right to isn't that correct about it. none of the insights of the january 7th speech, the

investigation among other things released outtakes from his january 7th speech. showing him messing up, having a hard time reading some words, and being frustrated with the speech content, but specifically, showing him complaining about the parts of the speech that had been written for him that he did not want to say, and that he was going to refuse to say. >> when you're ready. >> i would like to begin by addressing the heinous attack yesterday and to those who broke the law, you will pay. you do not represent our movement. you do not represent our country. and if you broke the law, can't say that. i'm not, i already said you will pay. the demonstrators who infiltrated the capitol have defied the seat of dstiny.

defiled, right? i can't see it very well. let's go. this election is now over. congress has certified the results. i don't want to say the election is over. i just want to say congress has certified the results and not say the election is over, okay? >> go through the paragraph before. okay? >> don't want to say the election is over. i don't want to say the election is over. those outtakes, some of what we got from the january 6th investigators, last week, now today, there is no hearing today, there is no hearing scheduled for a few weeks from the january 6th investigation, but nevertheless today, they released this. >> i'm not sure when those conversations began because they

could have started early the next morning but i believe they started that evening, on the evening of the 6th. >> to give a statement on the 7th, and obviously move forward on transition. >> i spoke to miller about trying to put together some draft remarks for jan 7th that we would presenting to the president and we thought it was important to further call for de-escalation. >> from what i understood at the time and from the reports were coming in, there was a large concern of the 25th amendment potentially being invoked and there were concerns about what would happen in the senate if it was, if the 25th was invoked. so the primary reason that i had heard, other than, you know, we need to get a stronger message out there and condemn this. otherwise there will be a secondary reason, and that was

big about what might happen in the final 15 days of your presidency if we don't do this. there is always talk about the 25th amendment. you need to get this covered. >> do you recognize what this is? >> it looks like a copy of a draft of the remarks for that day. >> and as you can see throughout the document, there are lines crossed out there, are some words added in, do you recognize the handwriting? >> it looks like my father's handwriting. >> it looks like my father's handwriting says ivanka trump and luckily for us he writes in gigantic letters in sharpie for all of us to read and we can see easily what president trump insisted he will not say, what he changed in the speech that was written for him to be delivered on january 7th, the day after the u.s. capitol

attack, the draft that he was given starts, good afternoon. he cut that out. okay. then it says i would like to begin today by addressing, and he cuts the word today out of that. okay. fine. the draft then says he should say that he is outraged and sickened by the violence. he keeps the outraged, he drops and sickened. okay. he's just outraged. not sickened. basically still afloat here at this point of the speech until this next paragraph when we start to sink the draft says, quote, i am directing the department of justice to ensure all lawbreakers are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. we must send a clear message, not with mercy, but with justice, legal consequences must be swift and firm. he cuts all of that. he will not say he's directing the justice department to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law because of course he didn't do that, and he sure doesn't want to say that he's doing that. and here's the next bit that he cut. the draft, written for him, for

his speech, on january 7th says to those who engaged in acts of violence and destruction, quote, i want to be very clear, you do not represent me, you do not represent our movement, and if you broke the law, quote, you belong in jail. he cuts that out. he won't say that the people who broke the law on january 6th attacking the capitol belong in jail and he won't even say that they don't represent him and they don't represent his movement and you can see that all crossed out, with this big sharpie and you can see his big all cap sharpie handwriting where he swapped in his own language there. he did say, instead of you belong in jay, he said you will pay -- in jail, he said you will pay. you will pay. you will pay. by which presumably he meant you will pay for tickets into my next round of for profit trump rallies where i will praise you. >> january 6th has become the democrat party's excuse to justify an unprecedented assault

on american civil rights and liberties, persecution of political prisoners. another thing i would do if somebody asked me, if i run and if i win, we will treat those people from january 6th fairly. we will treat them fairly. and if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons. because they are being treated so unfairly. >> so right after the attack on the u.s. capitol by his supporters, there is this draft speech written by him to give the next day and he only gives it to try to avert himself being forcibly removed from office by the cabinet invoking the 25th amendment. in that speech, the draft of that speech says due represent me, you don't represent our movement, you will go to jail and you will pay and by the time is he talking about it at his rallies, not only is no one supposed to be paying, but we're

all getting pardons if he gets to be president again. what happens when there are no consequences for trying to orchestrate this type of attack in the country. the january 6th investigation is now expected to be more public-facing, is not expected more public-facing hearings for weeks now and that said, no one expected more material released to the public and that may be an indication we may not have to wait for hearings weeks from now to continue to tell the public what they know. meanwhile the other elements in this investigation and potential for accountability proceed, and some interesting ways. today, abc news was first to report that a very senior person in the trump white house, the vice president's chief of staff, a man named mark short, had newly given testimony, not to the january 6th investigation in congress, we already knew he had talked to them, we've seen clips of his testimony to them in earlier public hearings, but the

abc news scoop today was that mark short just gave sworn testimony to a federal grand jury, which means that mark short is the first trump white house official that we know that has been subpoenaed and has given testimony to a federal grand jury. a federal grand jury working with the u.s. federal prosecutors from the justice department, on potential indictments related to january 6th. we don't know exactly what that means. we don't know what vice president pence's chief of staff testified to the grand jury about. we don't even know which of what are reportedly several grand juries working on this, he might have testified to, but it is a rare sign of life, a rare sort of proof of life moment from the u.s. department of justice, in terms of whether they're doing anything, whether anybody other than just the writers themselves might face -- rioters themselves might face any criminal charges related to this effort to overthrow the government by force to keep trump in power. well, in georgia today, there was a setback for the georgia

state prosecutor who is using a special grand jury there to investigate the attempts to overthrow the potential election results in that state, a setback for this prosecutor but a very specific one and i feel like a lot of the news coverage today was sort of overwritten in terms of its implications for this investigation. the district attorney of fulton county georgia has been told today by the judge overseeing the grand jury in that case that she is free to proceed with investigations with potential prosecutions of all of the fake trump electors from the state of georgia, all of whom have received target letters from willis, telling them they might be indicted in the scandal, the judge has thus far cleared her to proceed with all of those investigations and potential prosecutions, except for one of the fake electors. one of the fake electors is a republican candidate for lieutenant governor in georgia right now. and this district attorney willis apparently held a fundraiser for one of the democratic candidates running in the democratic primary to try to beat his opponent in the general

election. because of that, the judge said today, in georgia, that some other prosecutor, some other d.a., can pursue that investigation of that one guy. and can pursue that possible prosecution of that one guy but not fulton county district attorney willis because there is too much of a conflict of interest. just for that one potential. that is a setback for willis's investigation in georgia but a specific one that only applies to that one subject of her investigation, and it really doesn't appear to impact the rest of her case. but you know, bigger picture here, just as it seems like the investigations and potential prosecutions for what happened on january 6th are stretching on and on and on and on and on, and i think a considerable section of the public is being impatient to see people at the top are going to pay any price for what they did or just the low level

people who physically ran into the capitol that that day, just as that is stretching on and on and on, on the other side of particular the effort to overthrow the last election and re-install trump in power, that is not in the distant past at this point, it is literally ongoing. the week before last, the leader of the wisconsin state assembly told reporters that trump had called him and told him two weeks ago that he needed to decertify the results of wisconsin's presidential election from 2020 now. which seemed insane that trump was still making calls like that as recently as two weeks ago. but then over the weekend, look at this. we learned that in wisconsin, the republican who is the leader of the elections committee in that state assembly, she agrees with trump. she wants to do it. she thinks they should be decertify and now wisconsin republicans are trying to figure

out i guess if they can call some sort of special legislative session to try to undo the 2020 election results, two years down the road. they want to do that now. because trump is still pressuring them to do it. and so some of them at least want to. it's not over for them. a lot of impatience in the rest of the country as to whether or not people who tried to orchestrate this will ever pay for it. the coup orchestration efforts meanwhile persist. i mentioned at the top of the show we will have josh shapiro, the democratic nominee for governor in pennsylvania. running against a republican christian nationalist allah gerald l.k. smith and don't ask what that means for jewish people in pennsylvania. doug mastriano, he himself was at the u.s. capitol on january 6th. he himself has been subpoenaed by the january 6th

investigation. but at home in pennsylvania right now, the fight continues. there are three republican-led counties right now that are still refusing to certify the election results from the pennsylvania primaries more than a month ago. they said they're not going to count some of the votes that they disapprove of. they're not sending in certified vote totals. now, that's happening right now. that's ongoing. and we study the past, we study the recent past, in part because we have a justice interest in accountability for past wrongs. so the people who do bad stuff, don't get away with it and keep doing it, and perceive their impunity as a green light to do worse. that's why we don't let ourselves get distracted just by the latest shiny object. we stay focused on that stuff, big bad stuff, that requires accountability. we also study the more distant

past, right, to learn from what previous generations have confronted before us. christian nationalism is not a new idea in the american right. we know exactly where it went very quickly the last time they thought it out. it seems like it is going there this time, too. in this story though, in this age, in this particular story about account act for the forcible attempt to overthrow the u.s. government, it kind of feels like the past won't leave us alone. it won't leave us alone. the distant past, it won't leave us alone, the more recent past, this thing that we keep trying to move past as a country, it won't stop. we've got more to come. we'll be right back. stay with us. e got more to come choices. happiness. away. ♪ ♪ i'm jonathan lawson we'll be right back. we'll be right back. stay with usnsurance

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october 27, 2018, tree of life synagogue shooting in pennsylvania, 11 people murder bid a gunman who stormed into their synagogue during services, on that day, on that saturday morning, 2018, right before he walked into the synagogue and shot and killed those 11 people, the very last thing that shooter did was write a post on a specific social media site. a site called gab. what he posted was a extreme scream against jewish people, months and months and months and anti-semitic rants to gab.

jews are the children of satan and it might have raised red flags on a normal website but it is par for the course for gab, for those who are kicked off other social media sites, white supremacists, holocaust deniers, all of the best people. in the aftermath of the tree of life massacre as everybody's attention turned to this online cesspool, gab's founder, knew that it was the highest traffic ever, it turns out the massacre was great for gab. that guy, the founder of gab is a real peach. after ten african americans were killed in a buffalo supermarket earlier this year, he endorsed the shooter's online grievances about black people and jews supposedly replacing white americans, the founder of gab said the solution was for white people to have more white babies. the gab.com guy promotes the

most violent anti-semitic attacks and conspiracy theories that joo jews are engaged in white genocide and a ka ball of jews secretly control the government and media and different opinions whether the holocaust happened or not. because of that, a whole lot of people in the state of pennsylvania learned that that same guy, that guy, is being paid by the republican nominee for governor of pennsylvania. dog mastriano paid $5,000 to gab for campaign consulting fees. what kind of campaign consulting is this guy doing for pennsylvania's republican nominee for governor? i'm going to guess it is not minority outreach but who knows. the gab guy says it was for doug mastriano for governor ads on gab but we know that doug mastriano got a few other things, he goes at endorsement from gab's founder during the republican party. i'm sure that helped him win over the coveted anti-semite

demographic and interviewed doug mastriano in which praise was exchanged, thank god for what you've done. doug mastriano got himself thousands of followers on gab, because according to a report by the huffington post, gab set tup so every single new user at gab.com automatically follows doug mastriano. given the clientele of gab.com, that means when he posts for campaign for governor on the site, he gets tons and tons of comments that are specifically anti-semitic attacks for his opponent for governor josh shapiro who happens to be jewish. doug mastriano has not commented on any of this, we have reached out to him for comment, and thanks to the liberal watchdog group media matters, we know the

gab guy, the doug mastriano campaign consultant, is he happy to talk about all of this. >> this is our guy. and this is pennsylvania's guy. and he's going to turn this state around, for the glory of god. this isn't a big ten. this is a christian movement. full stop. so, no we don't want people who are atheists, we don't want people who are jewish. >> campaign consultant to the republican nominee for governorer of the great state of pennsylvania. in '22. in 2022. this year. in our lifetimes. . joining us now is the democratic nominee for governor of pennsylvania, attorney general josh shapiro, mr. attorney general, thank you for taking time tonight, i'm sorry to be speaking to you under this circumstances but i appreciate your willingness to do it. >> thank you, richle. appreciate being on here. >> let me ask your response to this series of revelations about your republican opponent. he has formed not just a sort of

political alliance but what appears to be a financial relationship, and an ongoing politically strategic relationship with gab.com, and includes through today when the guys continue to assert that there is no role for jews in the political culture of america. >> i mean rachel, this is who doug mastriano is. he is so dangerous. he is so extreme. he is so beyond the pale that he would go and ask for followers, pay for followers, pay for supporters of his campaign, recruit volunteers, on the site that was used by the tree of life killer, the deadliest attack on the jewish people in the united states history, which occurred in pittsburgh, pennsylvania, just a couple of years ago. this site, this gab site, is a haven for white supremacy. and yet, this is where doug

mastriano believes he needs to go for support, for recruits to his campaign. rachel, we cannot allow this to become normal, just normal political practice. this is not normal. it's not normal that mastriano is on that site, and it's not normal that he trades in this direct blatant anti-semitism and racism that fills the pages of gab. this is not normal. and i think it's indicative of the approach he would take to being governor here in pennsylvania. the kind of chaos and division that he would bring if ever given the chance to lead this commonwealth. >> what i was talking about, when i was talking about these developments in the news in the previous segment and in this introduction here, i kept finding myself stumbling over the word nominee. because a lot of people can run for things, you know, a lot of people are candidates for anything, you get all sorts of wheat and chaff in large campaign fields, but this is the republican nominee for governor,

this is who the republican party has chosen to run against you, to become governor of the state. is it possible that the republican party didn't know what they were getting into with him? is this a form of radicalism and extremism from mr. mastriano that was not evident before they chose him to be their nominee? >> well, folks knew exactly who he was, when they picked him. we received over 40%, in a field of nine or ten candidates. this is the modern day base of the republican party. now, the good news is, many republicans are breaking from him. we had just the other day, nine republican leaders in the state join our campaign. there will be many more to come. folks who certainly don't agree with me on every issue, but they know that what mastriano is doing is a threat to our democracy. it's beyond the pale. it's not normal. and it should not be acceptable in our politics today.

democrats, republicans, independents here in pennsylvania are stepping up and saying that is simply too far. we don't want the kind of chaos it would bring to our politics here in pennsylvania. so on the one hand, i think it is deeply trouble some that the base of the republican party chose him overwhelmingly to be their nominee. on the other hand, what's been clear since he received the nomination is that just the shear number of republicans and independents who have said that's too much, we're not willing to go that far, we're not willing to accept that, we see the flashing red light out there, that doug mastriano is, and we refuse to look away, we refuse to ignore it, we will stand up to it, that's what's encouraging about where we are in our politics today. >> pennsylvania attorney general, democratic nominee for governor of pennsylvania, josh shapiro, i appreciate it, it is painful for me to talk about this stuff knowing what it means in your state, with the danger that it stirs up and the

personal attack that is behind it, and thank you for being on. appreciate it. >> thank you, rachel. much more ahead tonight. stay with us. you, rachel. much. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have $100,000 or more of life insurance, you may qualify to. stay with usct.com to find out if your policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance.

when russia started its war in ukraine, the first big city it managed to control is the southern port city called kherson, despite fierce ukrainian resistance in the north and around the ukrainian capital of kyiv, russian troops were able to capture kherson in the south just a week into the

war. well, now it's five months into the war. and aided by some new high-powered american weaponry, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is promising a counter-offensive to re-take kherson to kick russian trips out of that whole region and ukrainian steps are advancing step by step and liberated 44 towns in the kherson region so far, do doing so in part thanks to a new weapon they just start using, a weapon called himars, high mobility artillery rocket systems. himars are long range precision guarded artillery launchers made in the united states, they have been provided to the ukrainian military by the united states government, and basically the way they work is, it's pretty understandable even for those of us in a civilian context, this is a launcher that is mounted on a standard u.s. military truck, it takes just a four-man crew to operate, but this thing can fire

new nicians with a range of about 50 -- munitions with a range of 50 miles, the way they are equipped, and importantly, as soon as it has fired its shot, the truck can take off. so the launcher won't be vulnerable to the return fire. within two minutes of a himars firing its shot, this truck-mounted launcher can be speeding away from the firing location at 60 miles an hour so they can fire at long range in a very precise guided way, and then they can get away without having the weapon taken off the battlefield by return fire. now the "washington post" reported this weekend, the himars have been so effective that the russian defense ministry has ordered commanders to prioritize them for targeting. the u.s. has sent a dozen of these himars to ukraine. the administration has just said it will be sending four more for a total of 16, and the british and the british may be sending a

handful more but ukraine says these weapons are game changing for them and they need a lot more. the ukrainian minister of defense says quote for an effective counter offensive he said we need at least 100, that would be a game changer. it's clear the u.s. provided weapons on the ground in ukraine, that they are already, it is clear that the u.s.-provided weapons already on the ground in ukraine are doing the work they were intended to do. ukraine was able to take out a russian ship on the black sea. they were eventually able to recapture snake island with a u.s.-made harpoon missile, using these himars systems, ukraine was able to destroy an important russian command center for aerial operations that they say has drastically resulted in, drastically reduced russian artillery fire from over the horizon. a congressional delegation that visited ukraine this weekend also got to see how those weapons are being used. among them is democratic congressman alisa slotkin a special connection with ukraine

as her state michigan has a large ukrainian population and it is where soldiers were trained to use the himars system, and that was a point of the visit, by giving a challenge coin. she is just back from kyiv. she joins us next: challenge coin she is just back from kyiv she joins us next:

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pocks including a senior post at the pentagon. but now she's a congresswoman and a member of the armed services and homeland security committees, congresswoman slotkin of michigan is just back from ukraine, in ukraine she met with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy and his senior aides, topic one of their conversations were american advanced rocket systems that the ukrainians say could change the game enough to enable them to win the war against russia. these are rocket systems that have a direct connection to representative slotkin's home state of michigan. thank you so much for joining us. i appreciate you making the time. >> thanks for having me. >> so you've got an impressive defense and intelligence background and i'm sure this stuff is easy for you to follow, easy for to you grass number terms of the jargon and everything, but can you explain to our audience why it is that the ukrainian government, president zelenskyy, are so interested in this one u.s. weapon system that they have just started to obtain and that

does have a connection to your home state of michigan. >> yes, i mean i think it's basically, it basically gives them the ability for precision fires in a way that they just didn't have before. you talked about the range. 50 miles. i think what has been interesting is that the russians have backed up that range, right? those 50 miles. it's pushed them back in a way that i think has been different. and it just brings them a new capability that is longer range, more precise and then those himars as you said, they can shoot and scoot and get out of where they, were and they are very accurate and it is just bringing in new capability to them, that they haven't had before and they're using to good effect. >> do you believe that the u.s. is capable of shipping them a lot more? i don't know much about these weapons in terms of what the procurement process is like, from what i'm able to read and open source, it seems like $5 million a pop and seems like open source estimates that maybe

the u.s. has a few hundred of them in our arsenal, but they've been around for decks, decades, since the '90s, not a brand new highly recognized precision and do you think we're capable of giving them as many more as they want. >> not as many more as they want and when you're talking about hundreds upon hundreds, the planners at the pentagon have to make sure we don't cut into the bone of u.s. defenses and the pentagon has to make decisions all the time, on what can we give them from our inventory, do other partner nations have similar systems that they can give them, and i did this counter-isis campaign, it is often figuring out what kind of risk you can take, and i think there is a question on the table about whether we give them a longer-range rocket that goes on the same himar system, it is called an attack em, and 190 miles instead of 50, an that's something that the ukrainians asked us for, president

zelenskyy asked us for, and i it is something that i know the administration is having conversations about. i'm certainly in support of that. but it's not any one system that is going to make a counter-offensive work, particularly in a place like, you know, southern ukraine. it's got to be a whole lot of things that come together. and it's a complicated thing to go and take back territory when the russians have, you know, really tried to dig themselves in down south. >> congressman slotkin, who just returned from ukraine, including meeting with president zelenskyy, thanks for help can us understand this. i feel like americans do really care about this war, and being able to understand the decisions that the american government can make about what we can do and what we can't is a really important part of staying engaged with reality here. thanks for helping us understand. >> thanks. we'll be right back. stay with us. thanks for helping us understand.

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that's going to do it for us tonight. thanks for being here us with. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. on january 6th, we relied on law enforcement to save our democracy. we saw what happened. the capitol police, the dc metropolitan police, other law enforcement agencies, were attacked and assaulted before our very eyes, speared, sprayed, stomped on, brutalized, and lives were lost. for three hours, the getted former president of the -- the defeated former president of the united states watched it all happen. >> president biden gives rare and direct comments con telling former president trump. we'll --