i'm lindsey reiser in for another busy hour. this morning we begin with the biden administration tackling two major issues on the world stage. this morning president biden held a high-stakes call with china's leader xi jinping. it was their first phone call in four months and they were expected to discuss ukraine. looming over the call, new sparks with nancy pelosi with a trip to taiwan. we're also following critical developments concerning the detainment of americans in russia. the biden administration has proposed exchanging imprisoned arms dealer viktor bout for the release of americans brittney griner and paul whelan. but the kremlin spokesman says there has been no agreement on a deal so far. joining us right now to discuss these issues, nbc news washington correspondent and moderator of washington week on

pbs, rick stengel, an msnbc political analyst and gordon chang, "newsweek" columnist. yammish, what do we know about this call between president biden and president xi jinping? >> we know the president for a long time has called china the u.s.'s main competitor and said there is this really tug of war between democracy and autocracy this is really a high-stakes call and also a call president biden is welcoming because he has said diplomacy is the thing america should be known for. he's said over and over again that america is back. there's a lot going on there. we should also note that hanging over this call is the potential trip between house speaker nancy pelosi and taiwan. there's a lot of criticism coming from china, based on

reporting, that says she should not take this trip and it could set off a sort of crisis. others are saying, if she cancels that trip, the u.s. would look week, including to nations like japan. there's a lot going on the domestic front and the national call. and the global enterprise is watching today. >> yamiche outlined the tight rope with speaker nancy pelosi. it's not confirmed, but if he she doesn't go at this point, she could look weak. if she goes, there could be real consequences with china. how do they resolve this delicate balancing act? >> it's a bit of an unforced error in the sense that nobody is particularly demanding the speaker of the house visit taiwan. obviously, our relationship with taiwan isn't what it used to be. we don't promise to defend them the way we once upon a time did.

and now we have set ourselves up in this situation, do we look weak if we stand down, do we look tough if we go there? it's a pretty silly thing, but if i can just make one editorial comment. the most important thing that happened in recent days with u.s./china policy was the passage of the $280 billion semiconductor act, which passed, be i believe, in the senate yesterday. that is -- that nullifies basically so much of the competition we have with china because china is trying to dominate this industry, which is very, very important to our national security. >> certainly. we know semiconductors, there's been a shortage and affects everything, cars, new and used cars. that's why one of the reasons prices have been so high. gordon, i want to get back here to this trip and the real world consequences the u.s. might face if speaker pelosi goes through

with this trip. why is her visit raising so many concerns? >> well, people think this is speaker pelosi triggering a crisis. we've got to remember that as we speak, china is trying to take away a shore from the philippines in the south china sea, trying to wrest away the senkaku islands, it has its troops in indian-controlled territory. and xi jinping has so many problems at home. i don't think this is about speaker pelosi, i don't think it's about the united states. it's about china being aggressive right now and we have to understand that sometimes things in the world don't really revolve around us. we have to understand that in china they have the incentives to lash out. >> and we know that the call just ended. we're getting word here. so, gordon, how seriously should the u.s. take china's warnings and threats? >> we should always take those warnings and threats seriously. and i think that this time, this

isn't just mere bluster. i do believe there's an ominous tone here. in part relates to china's view of the united states. they have for decades believe we have been in terminal decline. they have watched the problems in afghanistan and ukraine and they think they can bully the united states. this is perception of american weakness in the minds of the chinese. i'm not saying they're correct but that's what they think. and what they think right now is very dangerous. >> does that seem like a long call to you if it started, i believe, around 8:30 this morning and ended around 10:50? >> no. we've had very long calls between the two presidents. remember, secretary of state blinken spent more than five hours with chinese foreign minister this month and last month jake sullivan, the national security adviser, spent almost five hours with china's

top diplomat. these conversations have gone on very, very long. remember, half of the conversation is translation so you should divide it by two. >> good to keep in mind. thanks. yamiche, let's turn to russia's detainment of brittney griner and paul whelan, the u.s. paerm proposing an exchange with a russian arms dealer. how important is it for the biden administration to get a win out of this situation, especially as the president is facing low approval on a lot of issues ahead of the midterms? >> well, the white house is facing so many challenges. when i talk to officials, they see brittney griner is a priority for them as is a number of americans that remain detained in russia. the issue here is while brittney griner is a world famous basketball star who the u.s. says is unfairly detained, who should be coming home, there are a lot of families who are also having family members who are unfairly detained in russia and other countries saying, why aren't we getting the same attention? they're walking another tight rope focusing on brittney griner

and making this potential offer. i think it's very interesting to note that this is something that has gotten more and more attention as the time has gone on. our colleague, andrea mitchell, has been all over this story. it gets the point that attention and family members speaking out, her wife did a high profile interview with cnn's abby phillips that got the ball rolling and this trial going on. it will be interesting when and if brittney griner comes home because she'll have a lot of healing to be doing. the white house says this is on a long list of to-do, a long list of challenges they would like a win out of. it's just wrestling back someone who is now traumatized and who has been unfairly detained back to her home country. it's more than a win when it comes to white house officials. it's just the right thing to do. >> why did secretary blinken come out and make the discussions of an offer so public? i mean, russia's peskov said earlier today this kind of information isn't usually played out through the media.

i talked to jason from "the washington post" last hour, he said to him it's an indication that maybe things weren't going so well. that's your take? >> that was on the table weeks ago to facilitate the week. >> are we listening -- sorry. >> sorry about that, rick. that's to you. >> yeah. no, i agree with yamiche that the pressure in the press and among the families, i think, has caused the state department to react. i mean, you know, they read the newspapers, too. but that kind of press pressure and family pressure is a double-edged sword because it does get you to the front of the line but it also makes negotiations more difficult. it has given russia more leverage. even the russians said these things normally take place behind the scenes. they even prefer to do it behind the scenes. once it becomes public and on the lead of every television show, the pressure goes up and

the u.s. probably has to give more. i agree with yamiche it's the right thing to do but it's a harder thing to do. >> thank you all for your time. still to come, economic slowdown. why the new gdp data out this morning is raising fears of a recession. jared bernstein from the white house council of economic advisers joins us next. plus, the deal that caught just about everybody by surprise. how senators joe manchin and chuck schumer got to that big spending agreement. what it does and what it means for democrats' chances in the midterms. crats' chances in the midterms when you have technology that's easier to control... that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling]

new this morning, the government says economic growth was down for the second straight quarter, falling by an estimated 0.9% between april and june. the news comes as it is labor department reported 256,000 americans filed first-time claims for unemployment last week, and one day after the

federal reserve raised its benchmark interest rate by three-quarters of a percent, all in an effort to bring down prices. it's the fed's fourth rate hike this year. with us to talk about it is insider columnist linette lopez. thank you for being with us this morning. we spoke of fed chairman jerome powell say during his press conference that the economy is not in a recession right now but the paths to avoiding one are narrower than they were a few months ago. where do you see things going in the next few months? >> it's really impossible to tell. the economy is slowing because we are trying to get the economy to slow down. it should not be a surprise to anyone that hiking interest rates on purpose to cool things down is resulting in a lower gdp growth or, rather, a contraction. the question is not whether the economy is slowing, the question is, are we slowing it so much that it gets to recession levels

of pain. and we just don't know yet. we're seeing that corporations are announcing their earnings. we know they're feeling some pain, but they're still showing healthy profits. again, this picture is americay. we know some of the causes of this pain are receding. gas prices are going down. we know there are negotiations between russians and ukrainians to allow food out of ukraine, so that should help food prices. we know the white house is moving. there's a lot happening and there's so much happening that it's really hard for economists to figure out what direction it's all going to go in. how quickly and when we should really stop. that's why the fed says we're data dependent. we don't know how it's going to end up next quarter or during her next meeting. this is in my decades long

covering the economy, the most confusing time i've ever seen. >> oh, good. >> i'm just being honest. >> we're going to bring it up here because you wrote a column called a summer of hell. you talk to an expert trader who said -- this trader said they didn't even know what they were going to do because there were so many variables which is really scary for people who have their retirements invested in the market. you said the markets have turned into an advanced adult swim. unless you are a seasoned practitioner, i suggest you avoid looking at your 401(k) next next year. this summer the market is melting and investors big and small are going to get burned before it's over. definitely not a light, happy read but, again, honest. you predicted this, basically, in may. you said this was going to happen. >> yeah. well, one thing that markets

never like is uncertainty. that always sends volatility going up and if the professionals don't know, then i don't know. all we can do is keep track of the data. the data is showing us a few different things. it's showing us that what the fed is doing is working. we have that going for us. we just don't know necessarily when we're going to put the brakes on it. i think when it comes to stocks and investments, we do have a healthy economy. there's demand here. americans still want to buy things even though consumer confidence is low. so, i wouldn't consider this -- i'm not scared the way i was in 2008. i think that we just have a very strange moment here. where the economy is moving from one where everyone's staying at home and buying things to finally going out and doing things. and we don't have all the things to do that we had before.

i live in new york city. our restaurants, the clubs, all the things we used to do is understaffed. you see what's going on in airports right now. this is a very significant change in the economy from covid. we need to take this into account. it's not going to happen overnight. >> so good to talk to you, thank you. joining us is jared bernstein, member of the economic council of advisers. how does the white house view today's gdp report? >> well, i thought it was very interesting listening to ms. lopez take us through all the headwinds and tailwinds of the current economy and i thought she was spot on. we are transitioning clearly from a pace of breakneck growth in 2021. when this president got here, he oversaw shots in arms and checks in pockets that set us up for a job market recovery that more than replaced all the private sector jobs that were lost.

1.2 million jobs gained in the last quarter, around the same amount in the first quarter. a very strong job market tracking 3.6% unemployment. but we also know that there are real headwinds facing consumers, facing household budgets. there the most pronounced part of the budget is unacceptably high inflation. we're glad to see a bit of relief at the pump. that's important. if you look at consumer spending and jobs, you do see the underlying strength ms. lopez was referring to. >> i'm sorry. it looks like you're in a battle over audio here maybe with a lawn mower, but when we talk here -- >> i'm used to it. >> -- about what we're seeing and the data that linette was talking about and the fact that we're seeing what the fed is trying to do here, are you happy with the result here of the slowing as a result of these rate hikes? >> one of the things we're very

careful to do at the white house, and i think it's a critical difference between us and our predecessor is we stay out of the fed's knitting in any granular way. we're not going to comment on monetary policy meeting to meeting. the president obviously has tremendous faith and support in his slate of folks he nominated who are then confirmed to the fed board. chair powell at the top of the list. and one of the things the president has talked about is how their pivot to more aggressive rate hikes is completely appropriate when they are the first and foremost fighters of inflation in this economy. one of the areas where you see those rate hikes happen most quickly is in the housing market. that's evidenced in today's gdp report. that market needed to cool. so, the fed's medicine is the correct medicine for that market. and that cooling was expected and part of a transition from breakneck growth to morsteady and stable growth.

>> the jared, i want to talk to you about what some folks are saying. while the economy is technically not in a recession, a lot of polling shows americans already feel it is. i was at a used car dealership yesterday. people who are buying cars lamented to me, people who are working there lamented to me. let's listen be to a car buyer and what she's feeling right now. >> everything is high. it's too high. food, cars, everything. the economy right now is really messed up. we have to do what we have to do to survive. i hope we get back to the way it was real soon. >> what do you say to her and other people having a tough time right now? >> completely understand where she's coming from. when the president talks about inflation being unacceptably high, it's someone like that that he has very much in the core of his statement. he grew up in a family where if the price of gas ticked up a nickel, it was a kitchen table discussion. what that means is we have to do

all we can to help that person. let me talk about that for a second. i see you have a picture of cars up there. there is legislation we have learned in the last couple of days is coming back to life. of course, i'm talking about the inflation reduction act that senator schumer and manchin were talking about yesterday. the president released a very positive statement. he's always kept hope alive when it comes to that act. within that act is a very deep and important subsidies to offset the cost of buying new and used electric vehicles. but that's down -- you know, that's months away. right now the decline of gasoline at the pump, it's been a decline of about 74, 75 cents since its peak in mid-june. that is not -- that's not victory lap material yet. that's still an elevated price at the pump but it takes some

breathing room from folks like the woman you just talked to, that also is in part a result of measures this president has taken to increase the global supply of oil. so, that's in the mix as well. we have to do a lot more but she's right. that's the biggest pressure point we face. >> jared bernstein, thanks for your time. >> my pleasure. we have new details in the january 6th investigation. what the committee could learn today from former trump chief of staff nick mulvaney, who's sitting for an interview today. s sitting for an interview today

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new astepro allergy. now available without a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid free spray. while other allergy sprays take hours astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can... astepro and go. welcome back. comedian jon stewart is holding a news conference in washington, d.c., calling on congress to pass the pact act, that would expand military benefits, but the senate failed to pass a procedural vote on the measure yesterday. just into nbc news, our capitol hill team is reporting former acting trump chief of staff mick mil mulvaney is meeting with the january 6th committee today for a virtual

taped deposition. nbc's ali vitali and devlin, kyle cheney politico reporter and lisa ruben, legal analyst for the rachel maddow show. >> mick mulvaney has spent time in the white house. he was the former acting chief of staff prior to mark meadows. he stayed close with trump world after he left that role, but by and large, after the insurrection, he was critical of the former president. so, of course, they're going to want to ask him about the mack

macinations of trump world. i think the larger thing here, too, lindsey, this is supposed to be a pause period from a public perspective for the january 6th committee. what we're seeing now, though, is those words that congresswoman liz cheney left us with at the end of the last hearing saying subpoenas are going out, the dam is breaking of people wanting to come forward and talk to the committee, that actually seems like it could be true, especially as we see more reports that mick mulvaney, a former senior member of the president's orbit is coming forward and doing a deposition with the committee today. it all speaks to the fact that even as things are publicly quiet, which is to say no hearings for the next few weeks, the committee is actively gathering information and it's why they're leaving the door open to several sets of hearings come september. our reporting is that we could see at least two, one of those is likely to be the final report that the committee is going to issue, but the thing it behooves them to leave the door open.

once they issue their final report, they have 30 days to wind down the committee's actions. also, they are actively getting information in real time. we watched them putting that information into hearings that had already been planned as they got it. for example, that pat cipollone video deposition that they incorporated into all these other hearings. i'm sure as we see more people come forward, they'll be incorporating that as well when they come back in september or as they've been doing over the last couple of weeks on twitter, teasing out pieces of depositions we haven't seen before, but tell a story we still need to hear. >> in terms of your reporting on the doj, help me understand this. just because the department is investigating the former president's actions, we have to be clear cut that that does not mean they've opened a criminal investigation, right? >> well, there is a criminal investigation of what people did around the false elector scheme. that exists. the distinction i would make

here, at a bear minimum if you're going to falsify the false elector scheme, have you to know what trump's lawyers and other advocates were told to do by trump. so, obviously, that makes sense. what were their instructions, what were their marching orders? prosecutors need to know that at a bear minimum because they need to understand what those lawyers and advocates were told to do and how they interact with each other. >> you noted on the maddow blog, we should be watching one group in particular. former white house counsel's office lawyers. can you explain why? >> yeah. last week the day after the last of the hearings, we saw marc short leave the federal courthouse in d.c. it's the same day that steve bannon was convicted on two counts of contempt of congress. eagle eye observers saw marc short leave the courthouse and

at his side was his lawyer. he was a person who was a dogged defender of president trump. here he is now with marc short. and we know that marc short, former pence chief of staff along with his colleague greg jacobs, have no short of criticism for the former president and for mark meadows and their refusal to accept that having pence do what trump asked him to do would have been a violation of federal law. marc short and greg jacob were in the room when trump lawyer john eastman acknowledged in front of trump and them that to have vice president pence overturn the election would have been a violation of federal law. so, it's important to see that as trump aides break with him, that group of lawyers, their break is particularly momentous, i think. >> kyle, the doj's federal

inquiries is one of the probes edging closer to the former president. you note a lot of investigations are under way. grand jury investigation by a local prosecutor in fulton county, a civil inquiry by the new york attorney general. what dangers do those investigations pose to the former president? >> sure. well, the fulton county investigation in particular has been surging forward and, you know, there's been subpoenas issued for some of the very people we just talked about. john eastman, rudy giuliani, mitchell, other attorneys in the president's orbit trying to facilitate what he was trying to do, which is to stay in power. for a long time while the doj probe was clearly under way, and devlin's reporting showed us, as much as we're learning about what was happening, this probe was under way probably for months before now. and i think what we saw more publicly was happening in fulton county, which was this tightening ring around the president's inner circle. and that probe in some ways may

be more of a threat to trump directly because it involved his direct phone call to the secretary of state there to try to ask him to find enough votes for him to flip the results. i think that one, in particular, is one to watch. as we watch people cycling in and out of the grand jury there. >> senators on both sides of the aisle are weighing in on the precedent of prosecuting a former president. let's listen be to some of them. >> i would say a former president should not be above the law. >> a historical precedent would be set by this type of prosecution. >> news flash. it will be controversial. >> we'll see. you know, how much the law becomes a political tool. it's a dangerous thing to do. i'll withhold judgment until i see what they can do. >> what else are you hearing about how politics could be at play here behind the scenes? >> so, i think, look, this is obviously a political -- a politically explosive investigation, and there are

political significant consequences to whatever the justice department does. i think the challenge for the doj is that they're trying to show that they are depoliticizing the place. they are getting less political. at the same time, their most important work is this highly politically charged case. those two things are always going to be in tension. that pressure is always going to be on the justice department, whether there are house hearings or not, although the clearings increase that pressure. i think the challenge for the prosecutors andmerrick garland, how do you make the point you're doing this well and aggressively, knowing you also can't really talk about your investigation. that's a tricky balance to strike. you know, you see him in recent interviews trying to strike that balance. >> devlin barrett, lisa ruben and kyle cheney. still to come, it was a surprise for many senators, joe manchin and chuck schumer, they announced a big spending deal

weeks after talks fell apart. what the bill covers and how the agreement came together. plus, can a third party succeed in the u.s.? going to talk to one of the founders of the new third-party movement about their plan. ut th.

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"shoot it, camera, shoot a movie!" and so our humble team saves the day by working together. on miro. next hour, president biden is expected to deliver remarks about a surprising deal between senator joe manchin and chuck schumer. it's aimed at lowering health care costs and also includes a climate change investment and taxes on the wealthy. a major departure. democrats can't afford to lose any votes. how can they get this passed and what are the stakes here if they fail? >> well, look, the stakes are that this is going to be another moment where what used to be build back better and just the reconciliation package fails. at this point what i'm hearing from senators is optimism around

this. the whole caucus huddled this morning. there was a lot of positive energy behind the climate provisions as well as the taxing -- the tax reforms that include things like that minimum corporate tax rate as well as closing the carried interest loophole. i just spoke with senator manchin who does not see this as a reversal, although he's one of the two players here and someone who repeatedly at various points through this was both the momentum builder and the guy throwing cold water on these negotiations. largely this was a discussion between schumer and manchin both. i do think you mentioned the fact they need all 50 democrats on board for this because the way reconciliation works, it's a simple majority process. yes, there's the politics of that. specifically the open-ended question of if kirstin cinema is on board. you need all 50 senators in this building to vote. there have been a few senators out with covid. the expectation is some of 24e78 will be back. the latest person is senator

dick durbin. if you count five days on a calendar and thankfully is feeling okay, according to his tweet, he should be back by the middle of next week. it means they can't afford any unexpected things that take senators out of the game. >> you have new reporting that senate democrats are ramping up pressure on the va to provide abortion services. the va cares for 300,000 female veterans of child-bearing age. what does this mean? >> reporter: this is part in parcel to the democratic strategy of trying to do everything they can, in addition to the reconciliation and climate provisions, separately still keeping a focus on reproductive rights in the aftermath of that dobbs decision from the supreme court, which took away the right to abortion protections and effectively left the united states with a patchwork of states, some that have access tore child-bearing people and others don't. this asks the veteran affairs department to provide access to

abortion funds for people who might have to travel to seek that care as well as to use their facilities to provide that abortion care. the thing is that va says they cannot necessarily take that step but the senators, of course, in this letter are arguing that they can. it's yet another example of what we're seeing from the senate. they can't pass codificati on. n because they lack the votes. they can leverage full power and try to codify or protect this right as the states work through it. >> thank you. joining me now is democratic congressman mike quigley from illinois. congressman, thanks for being with us here. senator manchin has been a key holdout on a lot of aspects of the president's agenda. ali reports he's been quick to not characterize this as a sudden turn-around but what do you make of the recent events? >> look, i live by the adage, it's never too late to do the

right thing. i, frankly, don't care how he describes it. if he's a yes vote, that's all that matters now. look, we don't get too many hallelujah moments around here. we may be on the cusp of one of those, pass be chips legislation to make our manufacturing stronger and more independent. and this legislation, which would put us on a path to reducing emissions by 40% by 2030, reducing prescription cost, health care costs, i'll take it. mr. manchin can describe it any way he wants. >> how would this bill change the economic situation for the average american? >> i think it reduces out-of-pocket costs especially for americans on fixed income, prescription costs because it allows medicare to finally negotiate on those costs. it also continues those

subsidies under obamacare, caps medicare recipients at $2,000. that helps a great deal. the subsidies towards energy, that's one of main costs americans have, especially those on fixed incomes, it's going to reduce the cost they have, particularly when they don't have any alternatives. >> what's your level of confidence democrats can get this passed by the august recess? >> i'm a cub fan. i'm wildly optimistic. i always have been. we're going to get this done because this is no alternative. there's an urgency of now. and i think that optimism that you all just described is real. and i think that sense of now, that sense of urgency is going to prevail. >> we have a lot of topics we want to get to -- you were just in ukraine over the weekend. what did you learn about how this conflict is change willing? >> look, i learned our military aid has evolved as the war has evolved.

that should be the case. we began by funding an insurgency with javelins and moves to howitzers and himars. that's changed the course of this war. we met with president zelenskyy, we talked about longer range, again, changing the scope of this. and this can't be fighting to a tie. there's -- there's an urgency that we need to act very soon because as the weather changes, the war slows. a slow battle of attrition favors russia. so we need to act now. >> real quickly, congressman, we only need 30 seconds left with you. you've been outspoken on the recent monkeypox outbreak. what more does the federal government need to do? >> i think we need to declare a public health emergency, facilitate funding and our response. particularly this is an issue very close and hitting hard in my district.

and i think the biden administration's talk about a $7 billion aid package. i think they need to send it to us right away. >> congressman mike quigley, thanks for your time. >> thank you. coming up, if voters have the option of voting for someone besides a democrat or republican, would they take it? history says not usually but my next guest says things have changed. former congressman david jolly is here on why he's working to form a third party. his plan, ahead. his plan, ahead. ♪♪ subway's drafting 12 new subs for the all-new subway series menu the new monster has juicy steak and crispy bacon. but what about the new boss? it looks so good it makes me hangry! settle down there, big guy the new subway series. what's your pick? super emma just about sleeps in her cape. but when we realized she was battling sensitive skin, we switched to tide hygenic clean free. it's gentle on her skin and out-cleans our old free detergent. tide hygenic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin. new astepro allergy. tide hygenic clean free. now available without a prescription.

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the bar in the handle removes unseen dirt and debris ahead of the blades, for effortless shaving in one efficient stroke. we told you earlier that john stewart was blasting senate republicans for flipping their vote on a bill that would help military veterans. last month the senate passed the pact act. it would expand benefits. yesterday, 25 republicans who initially supported it backed out. we want to play for you some of the expletive-laden rant that john stewart just said. he says, republicans spit on veterans. >> america's heroes, who fought in our wars, outside sweating

their [ bleep ] off, with oxygen battling all kinds of ailments while these [ bleep ] sit in the air conditioning walled off from any of it. they don't have to hear it. they don't have to see it. they don't have to understand that these are human beings. do you get it yet? >> dozens of former republican and democratic officials are joining together to form a new third party in the hopes of reaching americans they say are disinchanted by the two-party system. the forward party hopes to gain ballot access in at least 30 states by the end of next year. joining me now is one of the leaders, david jolly, chair of the serve america movement, which is one of the three groups

merged into the forward party. he is an msnbc political analyst. he co-wrote an op-ed explaining this. help me understand here. we got a lot of parties. we have disenchanted former republicans and even people who left the democratic party, like andrew yang, who said they wanted something different. what do you stand for? >> thank you for the introduction. i did lead one of the legacy organizations that merged into forward. i do not have an official role with forward. let me present to you what has been done through that merger that is new on the political stage and history has never witnessed, which is the emergence of a coalition of left, right and middle. ideologically diverse political actors, voters, state leaders, community leaders who have realized, we can build a big enough tent that celebrates independent thought and ideological diversity. there's not a political party today that celebrates thought.

this is different. it suggests we can coalesce around shared values of moving the country forward, of solving the nation's most pressing problems without requiring a top down dogma. it's a beautiful celebration of independent thought, which is why i was happy to lead our organization into the merger. >> what exactly does it mean? are we going to see a presidential candidate in 2024 from this third party? >> thank you for asking that. let me answer that question head on. this is not an effort to run a presidential candidate in 2024 or chase a shiny object. this is an effort to build a viable, credible, durable, sustainable national political party. what that means is setting up essentially 50 state parties and aggregating them under the national coalition that will be forward. what we hope to do is what we have been able to do is elect a mayor or run candidates for township supervisor or congress

or senate. who knows what 2024 presents? if at that moment it meets the forward party halfway, i'm sure they will reach out and grab it. that's not the intent of the forward party today. >> you, yourself, have said in the past, an effort like this would be electorally doomed. you were talking about something more center right. you are talking about something that spans the whole ideological spectrum. how can this work? do you see a party that appeals to moderates actually getting more done in congress? >> thank you for bringing that up. a wrote a column about a year ago when an effort was launched to build a center right party. i said, the lessons of history teach us that to demand americans coalesce around a specific ideology will fail. what has been engineered at the forward party is something big enough to bring progressives, moderates and conservatives together. if we agree as americans, which

i believe we do, in economic opportunity, personal liberty, defense of democracy, then let's exercise innovative, optimistic, independent thought and realize that the major parties and minor parties, all of them are starting at a point of saying, we must subscribe to a specific ideology. i think that's looking backwards, not forward. it's why i was happy to move our organization into this effort. it's a game changer in modern political thought. 40% of americans today reject any party, major or minor. it's wrong to assume they're all moderate. they're not. it's a beautifully diverse coalition. forward tried to accommodate all of those americans. >> we will leave it there. david jolly, thanks so much. that wraps it up for me. andrea mitchell picks up with more news next. more news next

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["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] ♪♪ good day, everyone. this is "andrea mitchell reports" in washington. the president is expected to speak this hour about the economy after fears of a recession were amplified today by an unexpectedly negative gdp report showing the u.s. economy shrank by nearly a full percent during that three-month period. attributed to inflation. only yesterday, the federal reserve raised rates again to try to combat persistent inflation. today on capitol hill, all eyes are on arizona senator sinema after manchin's agr