post, quote, the prosecutors have asked hours of detailed questions about meetings trump lead in december, 2020, and january 2021. his pressure campaign on pence to overturn the election, and on the instructions, trump gave his lawyers and advisers about fake electors. this does not mean that the justice department has opened a criminal case against donald trump. but, it is an indication that they are gathering information about his conduct. meanwhile, the january six committee may have wrapped up its blockbusters public hearings for the summer. its own investigation of capitalist insurrection is far from over. the committee has continued to meet with witnesses in recent days. including, with former trump administration officials. on thursday, mick mulvaney who once served as donald trump's acting chief of staff, sat down with an interview with the committee. the associated press has also confirmed that former treasury secretary, stephen mnuchin, was recently interviewed by the

committee and other former cabinet members. they are in negotiations to do the same. yet, there are some things that neither the justice department nor the january six committee may ever find out. the washington post reported this week that even more testimony and text messages sent and received by federal employees around the time of the insurrection were deleted. they may be gone forever. this latest news involves the phone records of former acting homeland security secretary, chad wulf, and his acting deputy secretary ken cuccinelli. the situation closely resembles the recent revelations of the secret service may have also deleted and failed to preserve text messages that may be relevant to the january six investigation. including, from the phones of agents who were signed to donald trump on the day of the insurrection. for more on this, i am joined now by his betsy who is a national correspondent for politico. she is also an msnbc contributor. so, betsy, let's start with

these deleted text messages from the phones of secret service agents and homeland security agents. last night the washington post published an update to the situation. this is with the secret service. quote, the department of homeland security's chief watchdog scrapped their best to get of teams effort to collect agency phones to try recovered to lead a secret service texas here. according to four people with knowledge of the decision, and internal records reviews by the national post, the washington post, what do you think of this? our alarm bells ringing for you as well on this? >> it is, at the bare minimum, very embarrassing for the department of homeland security. this is a department that was stood up in the wake of 9/11, and since then, has worked to establish itself as the go-to piece of the federal government. for cybersecurity. and for all cyber issues. the fact that so many really important dhs officials have remembered secret service, is a component of dhs. suddenly, you have a major

cyber problem. the messages are not being curtailed and stored. it is just looking and is terrible for this agency. dhs and its component parts have long been plagued by management problems, morale problems, internal tension, struggles to handle the missions that they are supposed to be responsible for us. this particular episode only heightens, i think, the level of external scrutiny on the department, and that they will be getting as it really grapples with, literally, basic cyber issues. in fact, it was reported yesterday that the secret service is considering to styling eye messages for secret service agents. because, they are worried about being able to retain written messages that these personnel are sending. even the most benign possible explanation for why all of this has happened, it's deeply

embarrassing for the department. >> that's a, you have a new story out this morning about joshua finley, and the rnc's current national director for election integrity. the justice department is interested in the role he played in the fake elector skiing. who is he, and how is he connected to the plot to overturn the results of the 2020 election? >> friendlies name is mentioned in that lace surrey justice department grand jury subpoenas. it's sent them out as part of its investigation into the fake electors planned. at the time, the plan was being played out, and finley was on the legal team, the internal legal team, of the trump campaign. prior to the scheme rolling out the way that it did, he merged the summer before, helping handle delegates for the 2020 republican national convention. in that capacity, he developed a very large rolodex, as well as detailed knowledge of the way delegates work, or conventions work.

and, of the way, ultimately, the electoral college processed and people involved would play out. when he was on the trump campaign's legal team, he was somebody who was viewed by people involved, or connected to the alternate electoral scheme, as relevant. at least by one of those people, i can tell you. i reviewed an email that one of the actual alternate electors sent directing a event to be in touch with joshua finley and another person, as part of their preparations for the ultimate elector project, unfolding. of course, the fact that finley same has shown up, along with many others, and has been accused of wrongdoing, does not mean he has been accused of doing crime or anything like that. it doesn't mean the justice department is interested in communications that he had with witnesses, and after biden was inaugurated, family went on to become the national director of the republican national

committee's election integrity project. it is what they called the project that is seeking to recruit countless volunteers around the country to engage in poll watching, and try to catch democrats in the act of committing voter fraud. it is a big project the rnc is spending a lot of money on. finlay is the national director of that project. at the very least, it is certainly notable that he is someone who is drawing interest from the justice department. >> politicos betsy, i thank you very much for that. here with me now is the republican congress with adam kinzinger of illinois. he is a member of the house select committee investigating the january six in destitution. he is also a lieutenant colonel in the international guard, and the founder of the country first caucus. adam, it is such a real pleasure to see you, my friend. welcome. we got this report this week that mick mulvaney and steve

mnuchin have recently sat down for interviews with the january six committee, and other trump officials are negotiating to do the same. so, was the law to require that you pursue with these former trump officials? and what have you learned from them? or what do you hope to learn from them? >> yes, i mean, a lot of that i cannot go into, unfortunately. i wish. look, we are continuing the investigations. that is what i can say. we have our set of hearings. it was very important for laying in front of the american people. a lot of the story, i realize later, they have never heard. a lot of the times when you're in the middle of an investigation there is stuff that we knew that we kind of look around and say, look, maybe not everyone knew this. what we are doing now is completing some of those, i guess, some of those tees. we are looking at other areas of interest. obviously, we have an interest in the 25th amendment being close to invoked. in my hearings, frankly, last thursday, we put out a letter

by secretary scalia. eugene scalia mentioned talking about the president meeting to meet with the cabinet. i think that was, kind of, a wave of threats for them. there is a lot more to go. >> so, it is interesting, adams, because you have now seen the sort of, floodgate open for a lot of folks to come forward and want to speak to the committees. it has been about a year since the committee started its investigation, and a lot of those officials you meet recently met with our negotiating to meet with this. were any of them previously reluctant to sit for an interview? could you attribute their, how should we say, recent willingness to cooperate with the committee as a sign that the committee is opening up some cans that they want to make sure they have under control? or at least some say in? >> i think it is a good way to put it. i think it is that.

i think it is now the committee is actually being taken seriously. for the last, whatever, nine or ten months, it was really developing the investigations. it did not really have much of a public face. you, know it was written off by a lot of people. now, obviously, it has made a difference. this is obviously quite important. i think we do have people now that say they want to put their side. and look, without going to any more details, there are people that have given us answers, that maybe, are not square now. as we have had more people that came in and talked to us. we will want to revisit with some of those folks and see if their memory clears up a little bit. you think about someone like cassidy hutchinson, by the way, and i have to tell you, michael, you know the republican caucus, as well as i do. texas city hutchinson, she's 25 or 26 years old. sarah matthews is about the same age. caroline edwards, the capitol police officer, they have more courage combined than, probably, every republican man of the u.s. house of representatives and senate. i think the story that is going to be written about this

committee is the courage of the young staffers. particularly young woman, but young staffers to come forward and tell the truth. it will be the basic equivalent of the whistleblower's for nixon. >> i could not agree with you more on that. it is amazing to see these young women stand on the half of their country, as opposed to what the elected officials on the republican caucus are doing. we have also gotten word that donald trump is the subject of the doj's ongoing investigation. so, what do you think about that, and the doj? well there, or should there be moving forward with this criminal investigation of the foreign president at this point? i think we have to understand is a country that no matter what happens there is gonna be pushed back. there isn't our, fold it's not the doj's fault, it's one person's fault, donald trump. he put the country in a position that we have to make a decision, are we gonna prosecutor or not? we being the department of justice. i think this, look, we never

won again in a position where the new administration prosecutes the last administration, ever. because that is a banana republic. but, it is very different when there is an attempted coup. and i think that if we say, basically, look. bygones be bygones, the queue didn't succeed, and as long as a cued us insists he didn't get away with a. i mean, i can guarantee you someone who's gonna try this again, and maybe even trump runs again. this has to be pursued. yes it is gonna be a bit unsaid before the country but i think the biggest thing that would be unsteady the country is saying, the president is above the law and covering up justice, and obstructing justice is actually the way to go to be safe we have to do. this >> this is gotten also very personal for you, adam. your work with the committee has made to a target of threats from trump loyalists and his supporters. the maga crazy crowd. and trying to in flak influence the investigation, but you stood said. he ecosystem of those messages

on twitter earlier this month. let's take a listen to some of the messages that you've received recently. >> we're in a protest in front of your house this weekend. you will know who the family is and we're gonna get. you >> of the more lord god almighty come upon you, your, health your family, your home, your livelihood. and i pray if it be gods will that you suffer. >> these are vile threats to you and your family, man. i mean these people. i just cannot imagine what motivates you at this point to stay true to the cause, and to move forward despite receiving this ignorant, vile, stupid responses from people in

support of donald trump. how do you do it? how do you make this work every day for you? >> some of it, my friend, as anger. honestly. some of it is, you are gonna make that threat and think that i'm gonna back down? you may somehow think that donald trump is the symbol of manliness, that's fine, whatever if you believe that. but i've got to tell, you if you think you can intimidate me, you can. when i hear that women. i mean by the way, that woman talking about the lord god, she truly believes she truly believes that jesus christ, the guy i follow, wants her to pray against me and my family for telling the truth. she truly believes that. she's not being misled even by political leaders. her pastor stealing her. so religious leaders are feeling their flock in large numbers. that keeps me motivated to. look, i'm just gonna tell the truth because i know this. my kid, that by the way, even since we put that out we have had dozens of threats against him. he is six months old, michael.

people have threatened to kill him. i mean, the depth of evil. i look at that and say, not only is that cannot get intimidate me, i know that somebody is gonna be proud to be a kinznger because his dad will have stood for something right. and i know that these people will be ashamed of what they've said. it is just pure evil, that's all it. as >> well hissed at hasted for something right, and is doing right on behalf of the country. we thank, you republican representative adam kinzinger of illinois. it is a real pleasure, thank you for so much my friend. >> thank. you >> going overseas, in the ongoing effort to get american basketball star, brittney griner, out of a russian prison. secretary of state anthony blinken said he had a quote, frank and direct conversation with his russian counterpart sergei lavrov yesterday. lincoln says that they have discussed several topics with regarding the warn ukraine including the release of gardner and paul whelan, another american being detained in russia. nbc news has learned that the u.s. government proposed swapping griner in wayland for victor boo.

a notorious russian arms dealer imprisoned in the united states. whom russia has been trying to get released for years now. nbc news has also learned that russia responded to that offer by demanding the release of a convicted murder in prison in germany. u.s. officials say this apparent counter proposal shows the russians are quote, not serious. after the break, something deadly serious. the situation in ukraine, especially as it relates to children. especially as it relates t children children with technology that can scale across all your clouds... it's easier to do more innovative things. [whistling] okay everyone,

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on capitol hill this week after democratic senators, get this, agreed on something. i know. not just anything, though. senate majority leader chuck schumer and buzzkill joe manchin came to an agreement on a scale that, yet still impressive, i'll turn it up to the build back better bill. this new version dubbed, the inflation reduction act of 2022. but, it's the collective amazement over the fact that it happened, or that the democrats were actually able to play the game of politics and outfox mitch mcconnell? this is what happens. a few weeks ago democrats tried to resurrect the build back better bill. to know one surprise joe manchin declared that he would not support the version of the bill which would raise taxes and address the climate crisis.

he has been blocking just about every piece of this crucial democratic agenda since it was introduced over a year ago. congress has also been trying to pass the cheap spell which would boost u.s. protection of semiconductor chips to compete with china. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell threatens to kill the chip bill if democrats went ahead with their sweeping reconciliation bill. it was widely believed that the reconciliation bill was once, again, dead in the water guess who was this, joe manchin. it passed with republican support this week. what mcconnell did not know is that the reconciliation bill still had a bit more oxygen left in it. manchin and schumer were actually talking in secret. arguably, the best kept secret on capitol hill this year. trust me, folks, the hill talks. so, just hours after the senate voted in favor of chips,

manchin and schumer announced that the reconciliation bill had been pulled from the water and resuscitated. got him. or did they? was this a case of strategic politics? was this one big happy accident on the democrats part? that we may never know. but, either way, they did it. they defeated big bad daddy mitch mcconnell. congratulations democrats, you did politics! what took you so long?

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the bar in the handle removes unseen dirt and debris ahead of the blades, for effortless shaving in one efficient stroke. the house has passed was deflation that would ban assault weapons for the first time since 2004. it is likely doomed, of course, in the senate. democrats are not giving at. yesterday's vote follows a hard charging hearing in the house oversight committee. gun manufacturers were called on by committee chair, carolyn maloney, to take responsibility for, as she put it, profiting

off of the blood of innocent americans killed in mass shootings. maloney unveiled a report that shows five major gunmakers made one billion dollars from semiautomatic weapons over the last two years. sales skyrocketed last year. she had a rather stunning exchange two ceos on guns, she called to testify. take a look. >> i want to give you the opportunity, now, to show responsibility. will you expect personal responsibility for your company's role in this tragedy? and will you apologize to the families of uvalde? >> these acts are committed by murderers. the murderers are responsible. >> reclaiming my time. mr., how about you? will you apologize to the victims here today and victims around our country, and their families in sutherland springs, boulder, and other cities who are harmed by your products? >> as i grieve, like all americans at these tragic

incidences, again, to blame the fire arm, the particular firearm and use here that we are talking about, the rifle. >> thank you. >> to playing the fire as and the adamant objects. >> joining me now is the aforementioned democratic congresswoman, carol maloney of new york. she is also chair of the house oversight committee. congresswoman, thank you so much for being here. did this go as you expected? what did you expect? these gun ceos, had to say, after these questions? >> i expected them to accept some responsibility for their actions, which they refused to do. after uvalde, buffalo, and all these mass shootings across the country, the support for assault weapon bans has grown to over 70%. people are demanding action. we passed the bill last night. thank goodness it is out of the house and in the senate. but, i expected them to accept some responsibility. in our country, most industries

track their products. they work to make them safer. they have reports on what is safe and what is not saying. they have failed to do anything. i expected them to at. if they will not act, congress will have to make them at. we are working on legislation to require them to take responsibility, and report on their products. when there is death being caused, and ways to make it safer. >> that means, to, what do you see happening next in these hearings? you say you intend to subpoena slip and lesson for not showing up to the hearing. is there more where that came from, if you will? it is going out and making sure that these manufacturers are coming from congress to testify to what they are doing and how they are impacting communities with their weapons? >> also, at the hearing, there were families. families that have lost loved ones. they spoke in a tape to them. they asked them to take

responsibility. they asked congress to act. congress acted in the house and we need them to act. there will be future hearings and they are under discussion now. we did not reveal the hearings until we announce them. we are listening to the american people. they are demanding that we make our country safer. that means working on gun safety, and responsibility, and steps to protect and help our people. we have 45,000 people shot in our country in 2020, the last time the caps records on it. it is out of control. the mass shootings that we have are really only in our country. they are not in other countries. so, we need to take steps to make our country safer for our citizens. >> to your point, congresswoman, about how citizens are responding to this. we are seeing laws pop up across the country that allow citizens to sue gunmakers. like in california and in

connecticut where families in sandy hook settled with remington in a suit, they. or is it possible to make that legal strategy applicable nationwide so that it is no longer, quote, a local problems? and more citizens have the at the lady to sue gun manufacturers? >> yes, we have a bill before congress, now, that we are considering. in that direction. i, literally, put in legislation on it to. about holding gun companies liable for their actions, or allowing them to be not stagnant. we are moving forward in many areas of our country, not fast enough with the amount of bloodshed as a loss of life been suffering in our country. i would say the high cost to gun violence in our country, it has to be addressed. we are working on it. and we are working on the production act. well, on the assault weapons wentian your house colleagues just passed, it is unlikely now

that it has gone to the senate to pass in the senate because republicans have made it very clear they are done on guns. they are not doing anything else with guns. so, moving forward how do you see breaking that republican law, jim. is there any way to actually get something like this signed into law? >> well, the person you have to do is to hold him responsible with the vote. let the american people see how the senators vote on banning assault weapons, which they are demanding. and it should then go out into an election. and i believe the american people will vote for people who are for gun safety, for banning these weapons of war. these are not weapons to defend people, they are weapons of war to slaughter people. in one of our hearings, a doctor testified that five of his patients had been shot in uvalde and the destruction of them was so great that he could not even identify them. he could only identify them

from their dna. so these are not normal weapons. these are machine guns, these are battlefield guns. they do not belong in our schools, or in our places of worship, in our communities at all, and we need to ban them. there should be a vote in the senate, and the american people should hold him responsible to voting booth. >> all right, democratic representative karen maloney of new york. thank you so much for being with us. coming up, among the many lasting impacts of russia's devastating war in ukraine is the effect it is having on children. both inside the country and abroad. after the break, i will talk to someone who has been on the frontlines working with these were stricken children. were stricken children. with technology that can scale across all your clouds... the war in ukraine has now gone it's easier to do more innovative things. [whistling]

on five months and a week and it continues to fuel one of the worst refugee crises europe has seen in recent memory. millions of ukrainians have been forced to flee their homes

to escape the violence inflicted by russia, and many of those refugees are children. according to unicef, roughly two thirds of ukraine's children have been displaced, either inside the country or abroad. nearby countries like poland, slovakia, romania, and hungry, or receiving the bulk of those refugees. my next guess how spent weeks in ukraine and poland since the war began in february, and has seen firsthand how the violence is impacting ukrainian children and families. joining me now, over the phone from poland, is doctor irwin red liner msnbc political health analyst and cofounder of the ukraine children access project. he was in ukraine just a few days ago. doctor red lender, you've seen the displacement of close and personal and have spent time with children in hospitals there. paint that picture for us. what are the children facing right now? >> yeah, michael, so this is a

completely horrendous situation. the largest forced migration of people since world war ii. so basically, what's happened is, we had a devastating series of nonstop attacks by russia on the eastern and southern ukraine. that has forced millions of people to leave. some people are leaving to go to the very western areas of ukraine, around lviv, where we have been. and others are leaving the country entirely. but about two thirds of ukraine's children are now displaced. the children ukraine and the ones in the children's hospitals had in which i had an opportunity to visit when i was here before, had just horrible injuries. they have traumatic amputations of both legs, these are children who watched both of their parents been killed in front of them. it is a nightmare. but the thing that i'm worried

about as well, long term, is that many of these children do not have a guarantee of being able to get to school once the schools reopened on september 1st. there is only about, let's, say 20% of so of the children in ukraine. that is a half million kids. only about 20% of them have enrolled in school so far. i don't know what is going to happen to the rest of them. and almost all of them, michael, are facing just phenomenal amounts of psychological trauma. there is a major problem and these time bombs of lack of school and severe psychological trauma that i am very worried about. >> doctor, you just started the new nonprofit organization, ukraine children's access project. how can viewers at home help the cost that you are undertaking at the moment? >> yeah. taken out by, they can go to our website which will be ukraine, chp.

ukraine's eap dot o r g. and we are working directly with officials here in ukraine and in poland. and we know that the money that people help us with her go directly to the services that children need. so that would be a really big help, michael. all right, dr. irwin redlener, thank you for bringing us this story. really appreciate it. up next, it is time to pour another cup of coffee envelope that easy chair because this week's meeting of the velshi banned book club's call to order. this week, we are going to break down a highly controversial american classic written by one of america's best known authors. ali makes an appearance, after the break. makes an appearance, after the break. the break. with technology that can scale across all your clouds... it's easier to do more innovative things. [whistling]

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and off, but the velshi banned book club is still going down with a special saturday edition. before he left for vacation, ali spoke with matthew seabold, the scholar and resident at the center remark tween studies to discuss today's featured book. a seminole classic, the adventures of huckleberry vin. ali and matthew will dig into the literature, and the controversy surrounding the book, which was originally published in 1884. so get out your copy, is because today's meeting of the velshi banned book club is officially underway. >> it is not hyperbolic to say that the vast majority of americans do not have seen the

adventures of how gobert even listed as a sign reading. have, and as it is colloquially known, is more ubiquitous than leaving to kill a mockingbird or a beloved as the controversy surrounding it. classrooms from new jersey to alabama have debated the merits of a book that, honestly explores and satirizes the antebellum american south, but utilizes a brutal and deeply offensive slur to do so. now the velshi banned book club is going to do the same thing. if you haven't read the adventures of a gambler even, since honors english in tenth grade, i'm going to refresh your memory. the tick the ticket allergic character huckleberry fan is grappling to adapt to new life with a new guardian, the traditional conservative widow douglas, as well as some new found wealth. one day, huxley plebe use of and alcoholic father returns for his son, and his son's money. one had cannot take his father 's maltreatment on the longer, he has a plan to escape, retreating to an island also inhabited by jim, and enslaved men on the run. the two ultimately stick together, despite facing a

number of a moral characters, and surprising obstacles. and like many works of literature, the immediate plot comes secondary to the story. it is really telling. the adventures of huckleberry finish the tale of two runways, hawk escaping a deeply abusive father, and jim escaping horrific enslavement. both characters are looking for emancipation from the prevailing morality of their time. at its core, hudson asks the question, what is freedom? ultimately, the book concludes with freedom. jim is literally unshackled, and husk rejects the racist societal norms of his community. he learns from johnson yielding moral fortitude. house internal struggle between his conscience and his acceptance of slavery as taught by adults, society, and even religion, is keenly representative of the nations struggle with race at that time. in many ways, it brings true even now. how finn has faced equal parts

celebration and ardent calls for a ban since its publication 137 years ago. many condemn the novels language, especially its use of the n-word. the seller appear some 200 times from cover to cover. it is jarring, to say the very least, to read that word again and again and again. the naacp launched its first completing its novel in the 1950s, citing the books use of the n-word. they argued that the novel contained quote, racial slurs, and belittling racial designations. later in the 1990s, the pennsylvania branch of the organization doubled down, arguing that quote, tax dollars should not be used to perpetuate a stereotype that has psychologically damaging effects on the self-esteem of african american children. and quote. one of you, one velshi banned book club member, echo the sentiment writing in part, it is a terrible imposition on black schoolchildren to be told that they should be grateful to read how finn as though only

the white perspective on black lives's of any significance. and quote. two of the most ardent supporters of mark twain, and effect, finn are two authors you've likely heard of. ernest hemingway, and the former velshi banned book club feature, tony morrison. hemingway famously wrote, all modern american literature comes from one book by mark twain called huckleberry vin. american writing comes from that. and there was nothing before, there has been nothing as good since. tony morrison, has repeatedly come to the defensive tween as a black woman author. perhaps her application means even more. in 1993, morrison wrote, mark twain talked about racial ideology in the most powerful, eloquent, and instructed way i have ever read. right after the break, we are gonna continue to discuss the controversial big crucial huckleberry fan with matt seabold, scholar in residence at the center for mark twain studies. s. s. ss all your clouds...

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so for a limited time, comcast business is introducing small business savings. call now to get powerful internet for just 39 dollars a month. with no contract. and a money back guarantee. all on the largest, fastest reliable network. from the company that powers more businesses than anyone else. call and start saving today. join me now is matt, cibola comcast business. powering possibilities. scholar in residence and associate professor at a -- college and the host of the american piano podcast. matthew, good to see you. thank you for being with. that's >> thanks for having. me >> admittedly have not picked up a copy of the adventures of huckleberry finn years. this is a very old-looking version, but it is not, it is not my own copy it is a newly-purchased version. i was immediately struck by how different it reads as a non tilt than when i read it in

school. the overarching back to the edge in the book it's much more evident than when i read it now, which begs the question, does it make sense for high school students to read this book? >> i think that is an excellent question. as with most things, i feel like it is a kind of question that should be left to particular schools, particular teachers who know the most about their students, their classrooms, what they are ready to teach, and whether students are ready to handle. i think, undoubtedly, and we can you know get into the details of this, but i will simply say they was in effort in the mid 20th century to, jonathan radicals at hyper canada station. she get adventures of huckleberry thin specifically into classrooms at the high school level, at the college level, and even at the junior high-level. there was something about this work that politicians, and public figures were very eager

to use sort of force upon american students. and there are a lot of reasons for that. but i think that one of the reasons why we have problems with the book now, it's because it is sometimes, for what sometimes, forced fed to students. maybe students who are ready for it. >> here's something interesting, though. you mentioned that it should be seen as being through the lens of being about post racial america. absolutely not, there's about racist and racial america. so let's discuss a language here. it goes without saying that the n-word is deeply offensive to us. it is uncomfortable to see it in print so many times. conversely, many people log mark twain for using the language of the time period, and being arguably authentic in the voices. what is your take? >> so, i think far too often we lean simply on the sort of product of his time's defense. the tween was merely reproducing common usages at the 19th century border south

citizens. and that, this is where i think we go wrong. that he could not perceive the stigma that the n-word would accumulate in the centuries following the devils publication. i don't think that's true. i think between absolutely understood that the n-word wasn't dehumanizing epithet. that it was a charm of derision. i think that is evident in how it is deployed in huckleberry finn. a critic david sloan has explored how twain uses it to signal any racism of otherwise kind to people that howick and jimmied along the way. and i think more importantly hugs own use of the word fluctuates as he moves back and forth between embracing the white supremacy that is all around him and embracing jim as as one to friend whose humanity and even nobility is evident in their daily interactions. and if you look at those indications closely you will notice that oftentimes he uses it when he is struggling with

the idea of jim as property. when he is struggling with his own sort of moral compass, and the possibility that he is losing touch with a broader society. he will fluctuate that in two using the and word over and over again. but then when he is thinking about the things that jim has done for him, and i think they have gone through together, he doesn't usually use the word. he uses other terms, more humanizing terms. he uses trump's own name. and so i absolutely think tween is using the term very intentionally, and he is using it in a way that is not just representative of what would have been common parlance of the time. but also, recognizing that that word has power. and that it is dehumanizing, and it is divisive. >> there's a marine arguably most important part in the book is in chapter 31 100 and says, quote, all right then, i'll go

to hell. he had been would rather go to hell at that point than portray jim. which speaks to something at the morality of the time, to what you are just saying. have been in heck spare of you has no place for someone who could actually sympathize with an enslaved. man >> yeah, that is absolutely right. it is a sublime scene. one of the secrets of tweens access is how, despite reputedly being a satirist, he knows how to produce sensation, and sentiment. and chapter 31 is epidemic. it is a perfectly executed sentimental climax. it marshals all the action which proceeds it to make readers root for how to last feet. to defy the letter of the law. and more importantly, but he believes to be godzilla. the scene gives me do flips every time. but it is not the end of the novel. and i am going to lay a lot of this blame on ernest hemingway, who you quoted at the beginning. he famously calls huckleberry from the origin of american literature. but he also says, in that very

same passage that you have to stop reading at chapter 31. and far too many people take his advice. they ignore the fact that accepted funny is not the end. it is a precursor to a tragic finale. yes, this young man overcomes at least temporarily his prejudice, and that is a beautiful thing. but anti racism is not simply a matter of winning the hearts and minds of individuals. anti racism requires changing laws, institutions, systems, power structures. mark twain's philosophy of human nature is that individuals are products of their environments. their associations, their material conditions. how kevin is at the very bottom rung of society. he is just one or two stratum's above enslavement himself. what can he do about anything? he has this great epiphany, and there is no denying that in that moment, he is committed to making good trouble. but, bringing about a society he wishes, rather than the one

he has, but he just gets pulled over by tom sawyer and the phelps is almost immediately. it doesn't even take a judge or a deacon or a senator. his will to power is crushed by a slightly better off and the lessons orphan. huckleberry finn is not a hero. there are no here is. he says he's ready to go to hell, the two chapters later, he's resigned to being tom sawyer sidekick again. while he tortures jim for entertainment. and i am sorry, but that is mark twain's america. that is between solder missouri, and mississippi in 1881. that is what you heard douglas saying item it's patient day. 1 million dead soldiers, and a decade of halfhearted reconstruction. and the huckleberry huggins were like, i'm sorry black people, you are on your own. have adam, tom. >> it is good reason to read this book again, that's evil's is going residents at the center for mark twain studies. there is more, by the way, where this came from. i'm gonna continue the conversation with matt.

you'll be able to stream our extended discussion exclusively on peacock. >> that does it for me. thanks for watching this morning. ali will be back next weekend. you can watch velshi every saturday and sunday from eight to 10 am eastern. and make sure to join us tomorrow morning on msnbc as msnbc marks 100 days to the midterm elections with two special shows. the morning joe team kicks things off at 8 am eastern, and at 9 am, jonathan capehart offices on special take on what is at stake in november. you won't want to miss it. okay, now stay right where you are because the cross connection with tiffany cross begins right now. begins right now good morning everyone, and welcome to the cross connection. i'm of course tiffany cross, and we've a lot to discuss this

morning. from donald trump's legal woes, to the proposed prisoner swap to potentially bring britney griner and paul whelan back home. but we have to begin with the midterm elections, now just 101 days away. get this, in the latest gallup poll, at least half of americans are more enthusiastic about voting in the upcoming midterms than in previous elections. but what exactly does this tell us about young voters? many of them are fed up, but it doesn't mean they are sitting this out this november. let's take a look back at the 2020 election where young voters had a record turnout. now, according to tufts university, half of the young voters hit the polls in 2020. and this november, that number could increase as young voters are fired up by political issues, like of course, the supreme court's latest ruling on abortion. a lot is at stake this fall. yet, in a new poll, more than half of api voters say they have never been contacted by any political party. and this is despite being the fastest growing demographic in this country.