good afternoon everyone i'm lindsey reiser in for yasmin vossoughian. right now rescuers rescue efforts are going on across kentucky to find those who our chat by the devastating funding that has a wild entire towns in the eastern part of the state. doesn't already confirmed dead including children. hundreds have been left homeless. and more than 1000 people have been rescued. we are live on the ground at the very latest. celebration and concerns, the biden administration starting to see the domestic agenda they campaigned on turn into a reality. but could the summer winds forced a loss when it comes to equality for all? we will explain. >> and from the stock market to your pocketbook, new data shows the economy is slowing down. many people say it feels like we are in a recession. but an economic expert will join me to explain what a

recession is, and why we're not quite there yet. plus, how much longer will prices rise as supermarkets and how much more interest you pay and credit cards, cards, homes? all of that and more coming up. we are gonna begin this afternoon though with this devastating floods in eastern kentucky. governor abbott shear confirming on twitter, and at a press conference a short time ago that at least 25 people have died so far. and is warning that that number will only go up. we shear also confirmed that four children have died as a result of these floods. down from the original total of six. the federal government is pledged its support, but beshear is warning that certain rescue efforts could take weeks. nbc's maggie baskin joins us now from jackson kentucky. maggie, it has been called the worst flooding the state have ever seen. how are people dealing with this? >> lindsey, the short answer is, anyway they can frankly. they are in survival mode from what we have seen at this point. people are just driving around trying to survey the damage, get back to their homes if they can, and stock up on supplies

that are available because a lot of places are closed because running water, and electricity are still out across large swaths of the state. we just gonna give you an idea of like the conversations that are happening today. we were at walmart earlier, just a couple of hours ago. one of the few stories that are still open. and we overheard as we're living groceries into a car, someone talking to a friend, describing a situation where he said my parents live next to my wife and i, and he said the water swept my parents home away. and he said, we could hear them yelling. and he just found out that his dad survived, and is in the hospital. but he said we can't find my mom. so that's what we're going to go do right now. we just bought a bunch of water, and we're going to go try to find my mom. those are the stories that we are hearing here on the ground. and as you said, dire updates coming from the governor. 25 dead including four children now, that is the updated count. and they are still out conducting search and rescue efforts around the clock. trying to find hopefully more survivors than fatalities. that is obviously the most sort

of urgent loss and whatever one is worried about the most right now. but at the same time, also loss of property is still being calculated. damage to property, as well. we heard about one couple yesterday who covered on the second floor of their home as the first floor flooded. listen to part of what they described about as the floodwaters were approaching on thursday. >> i've never seen a come of that fast here. i've been living here in this area since 2009. and so, we are kind of accustomed to dealing with water coming up. but never in my life have i seen it come of that fast. >> that woman there by the way, the wife of that couple added that their house is okay, although there's heavy damage. but she said her father's house was largely swept away. it has severe damage. he, though, is okay. so those are the situations that are the variety that we are seeing on the ground here. it is just utterly devastating,

lindsey. >> i can hear them yelling. that will stick with me. that is very hard to hear, maggie. i want to hear what the situation is, and how people are feeling, especially with more rain expected. >> so scared of it, frankly. i mean the governor is asking everybody to make a safety plan. in his words yesterday he said, we don't want to round two. and we have more showers expected as soon as tomorrow, and the potential for more rain continuing for multiple days. it is not expected to be torrential rain, but scientists and meteorologist are saying, it wouldn't take much. based on how saturated this area obviously is. so people are very scared of that right now, but also just kind of living moment to moment. again, in that survival mode. dealing with what they have to deal with in the immediate, lindsey. >> the vast, but thank you. and we hope your crew stay safe as well. we appreciate. it it in washington, democrats are making some major legislative moves just a few months ahead of the

all-important midterms. after passing bipartisan legislation to help u.s. companies produce computer chips, senate majority leader chuck schumer announced a deal with senator manchin on a wide ranging bill to combat inflation. and that includes significant mid tours on tax reform, climate change, and health care. let's get right to our nbc news team covering all this moving parts for us. ali raphael from capitol hill, more bear from the white house, second her is joining us from canton beach california. ali, i want to start with you. on top of all of this, the house also passed a bill to ban assault style weapons. but we know that that is not going to go anywhere in the senate. so, talk to us about what democrats are messaging this alums? >> yeah, lindsey. while this had a surprisingly narrow margin of victory, right. you had five democrats voting against this bill, two republicans voting for it, and one of those republicans is congressman chris jacobs who represents part of buffalo new york. a city still reeling from that

racially motivated mass shooting we saw a couple months ago. listen to his reaction, after this bill passed last night. >> i just don't believe every civilian should have access to that. so we will see where this goes. hopefully begins the dialogue towards something. i'm not being unrealistic that this is going to pass the senate doesn't seem inclined at this point in time to do it. >> and, jacob said to us that he really wasn't surprised that he was one of only two republicans who voted for this, because he knows that this bill is dead on arrival in the senate. that is because we saw that bipartisan group of senators make a conscious decision to not put an assault weapons ban in the auto stork gun legislation we saw passed back in june. republicans have signaled that that is as far as they are willing to budge on this. and so, while this was a historic deal that was passed yesterday, lindsey, this is largely symbolic. this is really democrats trying to really draw a contrast and make clear how difficult, how

different they are in their stance on gun control compared to republicans, lindsey. >> molly, let's also talk about this mansion schumer deal. will democrats be able to get their whole caucus, including senator sinema on board? >> so there's definitely a sense of cautious optimism here on capitol hill because they wanna get this done before the senate leaves for that august recess or says on the end of next week. and we are still a few things possibly getting in their way. the first of which is this rising number of covid cases, here on capitol hill. the latest of which is senator dick durbin testing positive earlier this week. the earliest he could possibly come in for a vote is wednesday. remember, schumer needs all the democratic summiteer's not only physically present for this vote, because the senate doesn't have proxy voting like the house does, he needs them all to support this bill because he knows that he can't rely on any gop votes for this. so that gives schumer some wiggle room, that wednesday

date, to get another vote block possibly smoothed out. and that is really where arizona moderate senator kirsten sinema stands on all of this. and remember, she has posed past parts of, hatch versions of this bill. specifically that closed interest loophole. we haven't heard from her publicly since this bill was announced. and it is really not clear where she stands on this. my colleague, malika talley, actually asked senator joe manchin who came up with this deal with senate majority chuck schumer weather could be possibly willing to drop that from this bill if it came down to whether not that can be included in this to get sinema support. take a listen to what he said. >> i'm not prepared to lose. no, i have worked. like and saying i'm not prepared. but we have a deal that is fair with everybody. is a given take proposition. and that being said, u.s. have given. take >> last we heard from sinema's team, she is still reviewing that's 700-page bill.

who we do expect to hear a lot more from senator joe manchin who is expected to speak on all of the five major sunday shows, tomorrow lindsay. >> so more, we have been here before where congress is inching ever closer to passing some of the white house's big agenda items only to have the rug pulled out from underneath them. so are they cautiously optimistic at this point? >> possibly cautiously optimistic. but from president joe biden himself, he is celebrating that inflation reduction act in particular, giving remarks on thursday after the deal was announced. because for him, he puts it as a historic deal that will help restore fairness to american families, as he puts it. and is at the scene for, you just this week alone it has been so tumultuous when it comes to the economy. we have seen inflation rates spiking, rising up the next couple of months. it's not a record high at 9.1%. just this week, the federal reserve raising interest rates yet again. all while the gdp showed the

economy shrinking for the second quarter in a row. so it is all signs pointing towards a recession with the exception of the jobs growth in unemployment rate right now which the white house is getting quick to highlight to make sure that they are saying that we are not heading towards a recession. obviously experts have been pointing otherwise. and so the fact that this legislation is titled inflation reduction act, sending a message that the white house is very happy about talking about reducing energy costs for american families. like i said, restoring fairness when it comes to corporate tax rates. and as well as reducing health care costs. so all things that they are saying, the press secretary crean john pair noting in yesterday's press briefing, will hopefully immediately help american families after all of these bumps we've seen an inflation. people really struggling to make ends meet. and so, as you heard from ali, where the white house is watching to see whether or not this could be brought up for a vote next week, all the while the president we've just

learned, we'll be traveling to michigan on tuesday to give remarks about that semiconductor chips act to talk about the importance of american manufacturing. and economic national security, and how that all playing together. now, it is important to note. tuesday in michigan is a primary day. and so it is not, it should be noted that this is definitely, these legislative agenda victories are gonna be huge for the biden and for democrats leading up to the midterms. lindsey. you have new reporting. the democrats finally feel they have a robust agenda to run on. how are they communicating that to voters? >> that is right, lindsey. there is a sudden rush of up to messam among democrats. some of them are talking as if they hit a buzzer beater in the fourth quarter of a game. joe manchin, unexpectedly coming through with an assist. why is this important? why is the steel important? it is in swing districts like this one where the democrat, katie porter, is fighting for her political life. the single biggest issue here from voters is inflation and rising prices, particularly on

gas. a lot of people remember spending time driving to and from work, especially from groceries. for the first time this would give democrats some ammunition to communicate to voters that they are doing something about inflation, something big about inflation. trying to reduce the pocketbook sprint strains that people have. specifically, a major provision that would empower medicare to negotiate drug prices. that is the centerpiece which is wildly popular. about 80% support among the general public. it will lower cost, particularly for older americans, on medicare. there is also aca funding for another three years that would keep premiums down. it is a major hike that would've come, and many democrats were spooked a bit. that there is climate change. 369 billion dollars for clean energy. that is a major motivator for democrats to try and get young voters out. also, in coastal california, several swing districts like this one, environmental action is popular, not just with young voters but moderate and independent voters who see the impacts of climate change. that is what democrats have right now. if this bill passes they have

the argument to communicate to voters. what republicans are doing in places like this are hammering the fact of inflation and rising costs, hammering fears of another recession, and saying it is time for change, throw the democrats out, and for the federal government for the first time in a while feels like they can fight back. >> if anyone wants to talk about being in huntington beach, that aside, is there a possibility democrats made a misstep by announcing this before they could pass there other legislation that they wanted? for example, senator collins suggested that this deal could actually harm marriage equality talks. >> i think time will tell on that, one lindsey. if democrats have to choose between reconciliation and the other bill i think it's pretty clear they would choose this bill. it is so central to their agenda. on the fact of same-sex marriage, it remains to be seen whether republicans are going to provide the votes. they did not have ten votes in store, not even in the beginning. ultimately, i guarantee in

places like i am right now, to normal voters, procedural vote for vengeance, does not translate -- this bill does not pass republicans will defend that to their voters, or say this is why we did not want to pass. maybe people pay the price. one thing that republicans don't want to talk about here, where am, in swing districts like orange county, it's cultural issues. remember, this area has republican dna coursing through its veins. they support low taxes. they support the republican party of ronald reagan and bob dole, and george w. bush. they do not support the republican party of donald trump. they have drifted away from that version of the gop over the last six or seven years. that is why katie porter is a congresswoman representing this area. democrats are also trying to play up these cultural issues. not only same-sex marriage but also abortion. that can be a big issue here, particularly for younger voters, and particularly for women as well as gun violence prevention. that is where things are right now. it is unlikely, however, that the cultural issues will swap. the economic issues, but the -- for the democratic party being the incumbent party are so fierce that they are looking

for every advantage they can get. if republicans block the same sex marriage bill it probably won't end up well for them, politically, in areas like this, lindsey. >> thank you all for starting us off. we are going to talk more about the economy, consumer confidence, and what it means for you after the break. ron in sauna, and also ahead, declaring a state disaster emergency over monkeypox in new york. one quarter of all u.s. cases are there right now. how the move will poster efforts to fight off the virus. plus, one person claims to 1.3 billion dollar mega millions jackpot. a previous lotto winner joins me on the highs and lows striking it rich. >> when you are the leader in disaster cleanup and restoration how do you make like whatever happened happened. let it rain. let it rain.

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week, feeling new concerns over whether we are headed to a recession. consumer confidence dropping this month to one and a half year lows, sliding for the

furred straight month since may. also, a key measure of the economic outing of the gdp is shrinking at an annual rate of 0.90% in the second quarter. the second straight to climb. although we may not be officially calling at the r-word, the latest poll showing 65% of americans believe that we are in a recession. joining me right now is cnbc's ron, consumer rates are up, mortgage rates are down. what do all these numbers mean? >> lindsey, we are not really in a recession. this is a technical uconn one-on-one textbook definition of a recession. a lot of folks go by two quarters of successive declines in gdp. not to get too far in the weeds, this is a measurement of inflation, of just the gp dp. the economy, in dollar terms, grow 7.8% in the second quarter. employment, as you pointed out, continues to rise. we are seeing some increase in joblessness. we are seeing a downturn and housing because of the fed raising interest rates. what is normally characteristic

in a recession is people losing their jobs en masse. the unemployment rate going up by half a percentage point in business closures, and other things we typically associate with a downturn, it is not happening right now and that is not to say they are coming in the future, it is just not happening at the moment. enso what is this label of a recession matter? >> well, it doesn't it doesn't. i mean, most often when you get two quarters of decline that are back to back, the future does look a little less bright than if this didn't happen. but it really depends now, going forward, and whether or not the federal reserve stops raising interest rates at some juncture. whether inflation starts to come down, and fall below the wage increases that we have seen for american workers so that their purchasing power goes back up. so we are trying to thread a needle here. the feds are trying to create what they call a soft landing, where the economy slows, but doesn't slip into a real recession. but at the same time, brings inflation down and gives consumers more purchasing power at the same time.

>> i'm going to ask you to look at your crystal ball in a second, but the league just jobs report will come out in next week. so it's usually used it as an excuse to call is not a recession. you just talked about. that when we need to see in this report? >> well we've been averaging over three and 1000 jobs grown per month. and that is not consistent with the recession. we have seen jobless claims, the weekly jobless claims statistics take up to about an eight month high. but they are not yet at recession levels. so you see positive jobs growth, in a again in excess of 2000 3000 jobs added, and we are still not there. a big chunk by the way of the decline in gdp in the second quarter came from a reduction in government spending. and so, we know that the federal government is paying back and it's spending. we know the deficit is falling by 1.7 trillion dollars this year. so, that stimulus is gone while the feds raising rates. and so there's a lot of quirky numbers within the gdp figures that we are going to have to work through. they might even be revised upward when we see something

other than just the initial report that came out on thursday. >> so here's the crystal ball moment. at one point does the fed stop raising rates? >> they are committed, at the moment, to fighting inflation until falls back towards their target of 2%. we are currently hovering at around 9%. which by the way, i should clarify, it is not a record. in 1981, in 1980, we saw double digit inflation. we saw the 1947, 1948. this is very high by historic standards. the fed would probably like to get inflation closer to 4% this year, down to 3% or less by next year. my guess is they are going to stop when short-term rates hit about three, three and a half percent, which is a full percentage point away from where we are right now. >> so that said, if they are going to keep raising rates until they get to that 2% threshold, is that going to take a year, two years? >> you know, it is hard to tell. there are these other factors over which the fed has no control. the war in ukraine driving up energy and food prices, china,

still working through it's zero covid policy and having rolling lockdowns that are preventing things getting to our shores. those shortages drive up prices, and we are still short people, which is keeping wages growing at and above normal rate. and so, until and unless we solve all those other problems, it will be hard for the fed by itself to get inflation back to the desired level. >> okay, robinson, i think so. much i want to bring in scott cohn now, who is in santa clara california. so scott, you are at a mall speaking with shoppers. their dollar is not stretching as far. how is this mixed economic data impacting what they are able to spend, and their moods? >> lindsey, this is we should be clear, not at all scientific. we are at one mall, and we are talking to people who have come out to shop. so by definition, they are not pulling back as much as some people. but, it is important to note, there are people out there shopping. it is actually pretty busy here. that said, those that we are

talking to say that yeah, they are here, but right now it is definitely different. >> it has made me realize that i have to really limit on what i shop every weekend. so, yeah. there is a big difference from what it was two years ago and when i've been doing now. there's a lot more online shopping than i do these days. like the amazon, and other websites. but definitely i have restricted myself from shopping a lot. in then when i used to be. doing >> here is something a little bit more scientific. all eons life, the big insurance company, they surveyed about 1000 adults and there's definitely some economic anxiety out there. 82% of the respondents say they are worried about inflation, 71 say their income is not keeping up with expenses, and two thirds said that a major recession is imminent. important to note though, the survey was done in june. a lot has changed, and there's a lot more economic data to

come in addition to all of the crosscurrents that we've seen this past week. lindsey. >> all right, scott cohen, appreciate you. guys thank you. coming up, the fight for britney griner and paul whelan's release. the prisoner exchange counter offer russia is making, that u.s. officials are balking at. and, the kremlin is also treating lane with ukraine over an attack that killed dozens of ukrainian prisoners of war. we are live in kyiv, with the latest. latest when you have technology that's easier to control... that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling]

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have arisen in the u.s. efforts to bring britney griner and paul whelan home. nbc news confirms that russia did respond to the offer from the u.s. to exchange russian arms dealer victor from griner and will end. but they also demanded the release of russian natural, vadim krasikov. he is in prison in germany. the communications coordinator, john kirby, fired back saying

holding to wrongfully detained americans hostage for an assassin that's and a third country is not a serious counter off or. it's not even a counter offer in good faith. joining us right now is nbc news foreign correspondent molly hunter, in london. molly, tell us about vadim krasikov and why russian wants him included in the steel. >> lindsey, that is exactly right. as you mentioned, vadim is a russian national. he's a formal colonel in the domestic spy agency. this is a man who, not only has a lot of institutional and experienced knowledge, he is incredibly valuable to the russians. he was convicted of murder in germany last year. the reason for john kirby's response, the reason u.s. officials are telling our anesthesia sequel eastern russia, this is not serious, is because it was not only communicated through back channels, but it was not made public through the u.s. like the u.s. made their public offer a victor boot. also, he is not being held that the u.s.. he is held by germany, in the third country. the u.s. does not have custody of this man.

that russia has asked to be included. >> and want to play for you what white house secretary said about this negotiation yesterday, before the news of this counter offer from russia was confirmed. >> are you concerned this could all fall apart? >> here is the thing. you know, we have made clear, the president has made clear, this is a priority for him. it, in getting brittney and paul home, he wants to see them come home. he has also made clear that when it comes to u.s. nationals who are being wrongfully held, or held hostage, they need to come home. he is going to do everything that he can to make that happen. >> so, does it appear that we are closer to a deal happening? is it not looking so good? >> i think we are hearing a lot more about it. you just heard at the press secretary say, this is a priority for the president of the united states. we saw the highest level discussions between says criteria state, blinken, and

his russian counterpart, sergei, happen on friday. is that good news? maybe, those discussions are happening very much at high-levels. it does not necessarily mean that we are closer to a deal. the public, parted, the u.s. has made their offers public. that is very forthright. those discussions are happening at high levels. no indication that britney is necessarily coming home, anytime soon. >> molly hunter, thank you. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is calling for war crime investigations into a deadly attack on prisoners of war in eastern ukraine. the russian ministry of defense say at least 50 ukrainian p.o.w.'s were killed in at least 75 others were injured in the shelling attack. both sides are trading blame here. russia says ukraine used a u.s. missile system. they did it with hitting the prison in russian control territory. the ukrainian military says that russia destroyed the facility to cover up alleged torture and executions of ukrainians there. nbc news has not been able to verify these claims from either

side. then we see news correspondent, morgan chesky, joins us now live from kyiv. morgan, the ukrainian government here once the united nations and red cross to get to that present so they can investigate what happened. where do those efforts stand? >> lindsey, it is going to be a much easier said than done. where this war camp is located is in the occupied territory in the donetsk region. it is currently held by russian forces. we do know that investigators are trying to figure out a way to get to that area. as of right now, we have not heard any confirmation that they have been able to arrive, and see firsthand the damage that was done. outside, the video evidence when you see it, it is absolutely getting. russia, on their part, has pledged to investigate its themselves. this prisoner of war camp, or what is left behind a bit. following the strike and explosion. the concern here by ukraine, and its western allies, is that russia had access to it, and

could contaminate the investigation, if they get their first, going forward in this attack that leads at least 50 ukrainian soldiers done. 75 others are wounded. you have to see this evidence, lindsey, and realize that these are soldiers who were sleeping when this explosion went off. some of their relatives were here in kyiv today. they are protesting, calling for russia to be officially called a state sponsor of terrorism. following this heinous act. lindsey? >> we are also going to want to ask you about the critical grain shipments out of ukraine. they have been stalled for the last five months. we know ships are starting to be loaded up. when will they be heading out to sea? >> that is a very good question. we were in odessa yesterday. president zelenskyy paid a surprise visit, standing alongside someone ambassadors. they said that these ships are ready to go, essentially, and that the port is reopening. there was a sense of excitement in the air. the big question, lindsey, the ask is, when will they actually be venturing out into the black

sea, to in stumble, where they can be inspected before the millions of pounds of grain can be taken, two nations in desperate mean? most of them are in africa, summer in the middle east. we do know that there have been concerns over minds in the black sea. russia, of course, signing an agreement a week ago that they would pledge safe passage, however, the very next day they made a strike on the port city of odessa. so, despite the excitement that we saw yesterday, and what was, kind of, a press conference situation with leader standing in front of the ships, the ships, as of right now, or still in harbor, along with the grain. as every day goes by, with the green sitting inside, there is a risk of its rotting. potentially, not helping any of those people, in those nations in dire need. lindsey? >> morgan, i know that you got to ukraine this week. give us a sense of life there in kyiv, and what your takeaways are for the week. >> i think the contrast is

striking, lindsey. you have the war that began on february 4th. this invasion by russia. in various points over that time you are seeing the city of kyiv bend, but not break. at some points it has been described as a ghost town. whenever i arrived, a week ago, it was anything but. you could see young people out and about. people who are living in a country stricken by war have to come to terms with the fact that life goes on, either way. i will say, on the front lines of which we have not been able to gain access to, ourselves, out of concern for our own safety, it is a far different scene. you are looking at communities that have been heavily shelled. they are unrecognizable to the towns that they were just a few months ago. that is going to be the biggest concern going forward. how do these areas rebuild following this act of aggression? and this war that has no ending in sight. >> morgan chesky, live for us in kyiv. thank you morgan. up next, the first monkeypox

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breaking news we want to bring to. president biden has tested positive for covid getting. for more, let's go to the white house. mora, what do we know? >> lindsey, we just, received another letter from the

president's physician, dr. kevin o'connor. we are used to receiving these letters in the week while president biden was isolating and recovering from covid. i want to read you some of the letter. he wrote, as described last week, acknowledging the potential for so-called rebound covid positivity, observed a small group of people infected with. that -- once he was removed from covid isolation, the doctor goes into details saying that he tested negative on tuesday evening. wednesday morning, thursday morning, and friday morning as well. he just tested positive again late saturday morning, by antigen testing. and so, he'd done specifies that this doesn't fact represent rebound positivity. it is so close in timeline from when the president originally tested positive. the doctor also know the president has experienced no reemergence of symptoms. he continues to feel quite well. they will not be re-initiating any treatment, at this time. they are going to be continuing to closely observe the

president. finally, they said, given his positive antigen test the president will reinitiate strict isolation procedures. as we wait to hear more specifics on any details about the presidents condition from the white house, it is important to note that while he isn't strict isolation it means that he will not be traveling. most likely, to wilmington, as we expected to see him do this weekend. he had also previously announced, today, traveled to michigan to celebrate the spell we were talking about earlier this hour. and so, the president will remain here, at the white house residence. continuing to isolate. it is important to note that we saw the president interacting with many people this week. he gave remarks, and was celebrating the inflation reduction act. he was not wearing a mask and interacting with other members of his staff without wearing a mask, as well. we are looking to figure out what that could mean in terms of any potential spread. especially considering that the doctor did note that he does not have any reemergence of symptoms. but, this is obviously something we are closely monitoring as the president now

starts again, his isolation here at the white house. >> i know this is brand-new, and you are asking these questions. is he isolating, mora? >> that is what we have been told. via this letter. they specifically said because of this positive test he will re-initiate strict isolation procedures. he went on, the doctor went on, to say that he, the president, specifically conscientious to present the executives, secret service, and other staff whose duties may require socially distance proximity to him. we do know, the president initially isolated in the last ten days. they had reduced the staff presence in the white house residence. we are asking those questions to get more details on what that looks like. as of what we know now, because of this letter from the president's doctor, he is reinstating that strict isolation process here at the white house. >> i'm going to bring an msnbc medical contributor doctor patel. doctor, at first when i heard this i thought, okay, maybe it is a faulty test. we just heard from where we

have a negative test tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday. this is a rebound case. talk to us about this. >> lindsay, according to the data submitted from pfizer, it's not anywhere from one to 3%. given all the real world evidence, and what we are seeing, and when i have seen in my own patient population, it feels a lot higher. rent incidents rebound illnesses top-of-the-line in terms of people paying attention. but it means is, they have to restart the clock. we treat this as an infection. it is not necessarily just going back to work as usual. as more mentioned, he is isolating. you can be infectious before symptoms start. so, people exposed in the last 48 to 72 hours, no doubt, or going to be followed closely. finally, here is some good news. we have not seen hospitalizations or deaths from people who have been high risk, taken this, have rebound illness, and then recovered eventually. it certainly puts a kink into, not just the presidents schedule, everyone's schedule.

it prolongs isolation. it keeps you wearing a mask for longer, even if you don't have symptoms. >> doctor patel, the administration talks about how we have these things like paxlovid now, in the vaccines. now we have the president testing positive, not once, but twice in a rebound case. we have dr. fauci who, according to cnbc, had covid, and took paxlovid. about three days later they tested again and tested positive. some of those symptoms rebounded. so, what does this mean for how the average american should digest this news? >> this is what i tell the average american, including members of my own family who are trying to navigate. this number one, you should set precautions. once you have finished taking paxlovid, and you text positive like the president did, i would continue not only to her mask, but be pretty conscious of who you are around for several days. and then, have, obviously, people test when they see sometimes again. presidents are an exception.

they have testing protocols. i would definitely encourage people to do with the president did and try to test several days after they have finished the paxlovid or had a negative antigen test. that means to me test on hand. practically speaking, you also need to talk to a doctor. we do not have the ability to extend the five-day course of paxlovid. if you are really high risk, there are other options available. >> let's talk about how rare these rebound cases are, and why, maybe, someone who is watching, would need to worry about it, or would not meet where is much. is it maybe affecting just a president who is among a more vulnerable population, given his age? does that make someone more vulnerable to a raid on case? >> you know, it has not necessarily tracked out where rebound cases are limited to certain populations. certainly, it is higher. we do think that it is higher than the one to 3% reported out of the clinical trials. given lindsey how many cases there are of covid, each day, and how many prescriptions for

paxlovid there are, which are in record numbers over the last two months, and have been written. even a three to 5% chance of this, a three to 5% chance number of cases, is a lot of cases. the average person listening should think, if i get covid, you have to assess whether or not you need to take paxlovid, if it is mount sometimes, and you are relatively healthy, and you have been vaccinated, or boosted, et cetera, you might not take it. it might not be appropriate for you. if you are high-risk, we'd encourage people to take. it also, think about the testing even when you finish the paxlovid and test negative, initially. i'm still a fan, it is not a cdc recommendation, but i'm still afraid of people testing to get out of isolation, like the president did. but, continue that testing several days later. in that interim period, lindsay, literally, do not be, kind of, putting yourself in a position where you worry about infecting others. be conscious of that. once again, i want to stress, this does help prevent hospitalizations and death. it is a milestone that we are

shifting to talking about an oral treatment. i could describe it at a retail pharmacy. it is also a reminder that this virus is incredibly strong. there are a lot of theories about why the paxlovid causes this rebound, including maybe needing a longer course, or if we took the paxlovid too early and the symptoms or illness. all of that has not really been shaken out by the science, today. >> i say we have mora. i want more to stick with us. i have another question for her. doctor patel, when we talk about paxlovid, do you worry that americans might hear this news and hear these rare, rebound cases with paxlovid, and think, i'm not even going to bother asking about that the next time a test positive? >> absolutely. this is why want to stress, even amongst people who have the rebound, we have protected them from entering hospitals, having severe illness, death. we will soon, hopefully, gets info about long covid. it is incredibly important to not undermine the benefit of the treatment, from this. it is not zero, but from this

risk of rebound. i know that it is hard for patients, when they have already isolated, to test negative, and then test positive, and re-start the clock again. that could be incredibly frustrating. you are out of the hospital. and you are alive. i want to stress that. >> doctor, you have to bear with me. i do not have a medical degree. what should we think one we have somebody who has tested positive for covid, and was symptomatic, took paxlovid, then tested negative for several days, and is now testing positive again but asymptomatic. do we think this could be a faulty test? do we think this is a full blown other case of covid, and now it is an asymptomatic case? >> the data would tell us much more, lindsey, to the latter. this is something you treated like a positive with real. you treat this like covid. so, starting the clock again on isolation. going back to any context you had over the last several day,

and asking them to test as close contacts. all of that, it is exactly what we would do, even if you are not so dramatic. we have data that shows that people who experienced this rebound illness, even without symptoms, have the ability to infect others. it is serious. it is still something that i think we are learning more about. who knows, and the year, lindsey, we might say six months or so. we might say, we really needed seven days, or ten days. you know that dr. fauci did take ten days. that is actually not how we are allowed to prescribe it, but it opens the door to these questions. i'm sure the president's doctor will consider some of them. >> mora, this is the difficult part for the politicians, right? as doctor patel says, we are constantly learning more and aggregating more data about, not only the virus, but how to treat it, and how to keep people out of the hospital. but yet, the average person might look at this news and say, we do not have a handle on this. politically, how does the white house balance this? >> it is an interesting question. lindsey, because, just earlier this week we saw president

biden come out of isolation. after being here at the white house residence, and isolating for five days, and then testing negative, before coming out and giving remarks. he was talking about the importance of having vaccines. having boosters, and having paxlovid treatment options. that was a celebration for the president, as doctor patel just detailed. the fact that he did not have to go to the hospital. he was able to stay at home, isolate, and work while battling the virus. a much more minor case, then he noted, that his predecessor. he, president biden, the white house, very much emphasizing that this is a learning opportunity for americans, and is going to have to be a constant adjustment to what is now normal. and now, as i'm looking at the calendar and trying to do some quick math here, as doctor patel said she might recommend continue isolating through ten days, today is important, it would be his tenth day. of isolation if he had continue doing that.

we do know that he was not planning on traveling out of state until tomorrow, to go to wilmington. that is important to note. it is interesting that on his tenth day he tested positive, again. and so, it is going to be a constant learning experience, obviously. another thing the white house highlighted this week was pushing forward towards those omicron specific boosters. the vaccines that can both tackled the v a four and ba.5 variant. we know the president most likely have the ba.5 variant. we know tentacle the original coronavirus strain. those are going to be, but we have learned this week, ideally ready by september, for people who are getting that more specific booster. that could be more helpful in the future, as well. obviously, like you said, it is a case by case basis for a lot of people. as i mentioned with the white house, clearly, a learning opportunity. >> we know the white house doctor did say that the president had that ba.5. i want to pull up a tweet from the president.

he just tweeted, moments ago, folks, today i posted positive for covid, again. this happens with a small minority of folks. i have no symptoms but i am going to isolate for the safety of everyone around me. i am still at work and we'll be back on the road soon. doctor patel, let's say you are the white house doctor. whether your doctor's orders? >> he is doing exactly what i would recommend. isolation, monitoring symptoms closely, you could develop symptoms talking, discussing whether or not there should be any additional treatments that we could think about offering. at this time, at least, five days of isolation, and obviously, he will continue testing throughout, as well as going to contacts and recommending that they wear masks, and they test, as well. finally, i wanted to emphasize this. i think it is a teaching moment because the majority of these rebound cases to have a mild illness. i think this is something we can all learn. again, hopefully emphasize. like staying out of trouble,

and staying out of death. hospitalization is the goal that we focus on with these treatments. >> mora mentioned the new boosters that are expected to roll out in the fall. they should be specific toward the omicron va five variant. doctor patel, is your hope that people well sees that covid is still very much present, and go and get those boosters? >> i do, i think that is exactly why the government's work very closely, and clearly with the manufacturer to speed up that timeline. look what is happening in september. we are coming into not only school season opening, but so many of the experience we have had with surges during colder weather. we could experience, and we are in one now, we could have a resting period like we have had between surges, previously. we could see another surge. that booster could make all the difference in how that surge in the future, the fall, ends up with just, hospitalizations, or clear numbers of cases. i am very optimistic. i will say this, we are

constantly one step behind the virus. notice, we are doing the variant that we have now, and not an ability to forecast the future. most likely, it will be some other variant that causes a surge in the fall. >> doctor patel and the white house, and mora. thank you so much. we will continue to follow this breaking news on president biden's positive diagnosis. a rebound case of coronavirus, ahead, in our next hour. our apologies to timothy schultz, lottery winner. unfortunately we did not get to talk to you about the mega billion. we will. juicy rotisserie-style chicken. you should've been #1. this isn't about the sandwich, is it chuck? it's not. the new subway series. what's your pick?

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i'm lindsay in for fat's men. if you are just joining, us welcome. we begin with breaking news this hour. the right house confirming just a short time ago that president biden has tested positive, again, for covid. we are live at the white house was much more, in just a moment. also, this hour, texting on government phones. the story behind the secret service and trump officials communicating through the january 6th riots. it is only going deeper. new reporting is telling us about the process together that crucial information. and, yes >> we pursue justice without fear or favor. we intend to hold everyone, anyone, who was criminally responsible for the events surrounding january 6th.