click a picture there with a phone and you can find your way to msnbc.com. "mavericks" tbs announced this is the final season of samantha bee's great show "full frontal." you can reach out directly. it's a half hour interview. it's election night. "the reidout" with joy reid starts right now. ♪♪ tonight on "the reidout" -- >> anybody who was involved in that corrupt, shady, shoddy election of 2020, lock them up. >> it is primary night in five states highlighting live like that one from kari lake and other candidates who are trying to get their hands on key offices overseeing voting. make no mistake. democracy itself is on the ballot.

also on the ballot today, reproductive rights in kansas. a referendum there would strip women of their rights to choose unless enough people vote no. and we all know speaker nancy pelosi is a bad ass. she arrived in taiwan today even though china is furious about the trip. plus, trevor reed the former marine who spent three years behind bars in russia and is now speaking out for the release of brittney griner and paul whelan. he joins me right here tonight. we begin with a huge night of primaries in some key battleground states. voters in five states are casting their ballots setting up critical showdowns for this november, and the stakes could not be higher. the choices voters make could very well determine whether or not this country remains a democracy, and that claim is not made hyperbolically. we saw how our democracy was pushed to the brink in 2020 with the twice-impeached former president pushing the lie that the election he lost was rigged. of course it wasn't, and how he

unleashed a violent mob on the capitol in a hail mary attempt to remain in power after systematically going state by state to pressure lawmakers to bend to his will and change the election outcomes. now, to the natalie for the country, there were enough elected leaders in those states unwilling to bend the knee to trump, including a handful of republicans, but in the next presidential election we might not be so lucky. that is because a group of malaga fanatics spouting the big lie and willing to overturn their open state's election results are making a run for the very positions that kept our country intact. in fact, many have already won the republican party nominations to run for governor and secretary of state across the country with more on the way, including tonight. arizona which has a full slate of trump-endorsed election deniers in position to see some wins when the polls close, including the leading republican candidate for governor kari lake who has gone all in on the big lie, even calling for the

imprisonment of arizona's top election official for her hand liming of the 2020 race and for the jailing of journalists over what she calls or what she claims are election lies. now lake is taking a page out of trump's playbook claiming each before election day that there's fraud in the voting without providing any proof because, of course. >> what fraud is there, kari? what fraud is there? . >> this is seerous. >> this is about arizona voters participating in this election. >> the last person on planet earth that i would tell you, you and ms dnc. >> you know about a crime. >> i'm not telling you. >> the there's nothing new. there's state rep mark finchum vying for arizona secretary of state. this is a person who once identified himself as a member of the oath keepers and was present outside the capitol on january 6th. to this day he is still pushing

the state legislature to overturn the state certification of the 2020 presidential election, and he was credited by january 6th rally organizer allie alexander as the single force behind the stop the steal movement in arizona. this is the person who wants to be put in charge of overseeing the state's election. of course, these a few examples of the extreme candidates who already are or likely will be on the ballot in november and who could actually find themselves in positions of power in 2024. joining me now is national political correspondent steve kornacki at the big board and alex wagner, host of the upcoming "alex wagner tonight" which premiers two weeks from this very night on august 16th right here on msnbc. i want to start with you, steve. give us the state of play as we know it right now. >> arizona, it will be late tonight b.11:00 eastern when we start getting numbers there just

by the way things work in arizona. it will probably be within the first 10, 15 minutes of those polls closing that we get more than half the vote statewide. you get all one big batch there in arizona so we won't know anything until late, but when we start to get some numbers we might know a lot quick and what are we seeing here in arizona? we mentioned this is the senate race here. this is for the republican nomination to take on mark kelly, the democrat seeking re-election in november. blake masters has led in the polls and blake masters is running with donald trump's endorsement so then again that gets to the question of will the complete trump state of republican primary candidates in arizona get through? blake masters is trump's candidate for the united states senate. as you mentioned, kari lake is trump's candidate for the republican nomination for governor. she, too, has led in the polling, tlool was a final emerson poll in the last 72 hours that did suggest that maybe a closer race here so perhaps a bit of suspense at the end of this race here.

kari lake, the trump-backed candidate for governor and also mark finchem, secretary of state. the possibility is that of all the swing states, if the trump-alined, trump-backed candidates win their primaries tonight in arizona, arizona will be fielding a slate of republican candidates that is more in tune with trump on the 2020 question than any other republican party in any other swing state in the country, and i think that raises an important question for november. again, it has to do with mark kelly, the incumbent democrat seeking re-election. democrats need kelly to win to hold on to the united states senate, to really have a chance to hold on to the united states senate. this is a crucial race for democrats to win. remember, it was a biden state in 2020, arizona, but the margin was .03 of one point and given where biden stands in the polls right now, given how mid-term elections play out. they usually favor the opposition party, work against

the white house party, kelly on paper is a extremely vulnerable incumbent. the question is if the republicans nominate this trump-aligned slate top to bottom in arizona, does that give the swing voters who might otherwise turn on an incumbent like kelly in a year like 2022, does that give them pause and does that keep them from voting for republicans, and does that give kelly a chance in arizona, a better chance in arizona, and does that give democrats a better chance of hanging on to the united states senate? so it will be really interesting to watch these republican primaries play out in arizona tonight to see if that full trump slate is indeed successful. >> really quickly, steve, just for a quick follow-up. you know, donald trump is -- has been selecting candidates in these republican primaries who i think most objective observers would say are probably the weaker choice for republicans in placeses like georgia and pennsylvania, et cetera.

in the state ofs ass a, is there a sense of how trumpy the electorate is, because in some of these other swing states, the -- the chances of the democrat prevailing are actually being increased by donald trump's picks becoming the nominees. >> yeah. like i said, arizona, the margin was .3 of one point for joe biden in 2020. so, yeah, it was a blue state in 2020, yes, biden was able to carry it, but .3 of one -- about 9,500 votes. it was upped 10,000 votes, so it was comparable i would say in terms of just how close it was to georgia, so you're now looking at a huge sort of surplus of republican votes, you know, where it's not a deeply, deeply, you know, red state here, so this is a state, you know, that went democratic by a whisker in 2020. republicans certainly under a normal, as i say, normal mid-term conditions, sort of a again rick republican candidate, i think might even be favored in

arizona, but there is a question by biden's victory of can you push that electorate too far? and i think that we might be set up to have that test in november. >> steve kornacki, the best. really appreciate you. steve will be at the big board throughout the evening with results from today's primaries. we'll keep an eye out on that. >> this is a state like arizona, this was a barry goldwater statement that's how republican the state was. this the was a john mccain state, two republican senators pretty much my whole life tirnl and i'm not that old but i'm not that the young, and now it has two democratic senators, not one, but two. this is a state that swung from all the way from the goldwater republican all the way to being a blue state right now in terms of its representation in the united states senate so what do you make of this idea that the republicans are still taking the knee and essentially nominating people who are so far on the trump wing that they could actually make it bluer. >> i think that the term is

shand frayed, joy, which is democratic delight, right? but at the same time i think we -- it's important to step back and look at this in the context of america. we're a two-party system and if one of those parties is hopefully broken and populated by people -- i'm not even kid when i say this. people running for the governorship in michigan who are former stars of vampire web tv series and played characters eaten by zombies. tudor dixon is the first up i'm speaking of in michigan for the republican party, that's a problem for democracy. if you have a two-party system and one party doesn't work, that makes it very hard to get the business done, and when you look at the landscape of some of these people, the qualifications that they are promoting should be disqualifications. kari lake, the woman that you're talking about in arizona. that is woman who for 22 years is a broadcaster at the local fox news affiliate. i will say that again, the fox

news affiliate. she's seen as kind of a middle of the road broadcaster. sometimes she donates to campaigns like obama and in 2018 and 2019 and 2020 it all turns and she becomes a qanon xeer sift. last year she disavows the fourth estate and walks away from the newsroom and turns what could have been a liability among republican voters which is to say her work as a journalist into an asset by virtue of the condemnation. it's a testament to the anti-democratic norms of the gop that you captain get to the top of the ticket if you're a journalist unless you disavow the fourth estate and i will get -- i won't get into the all the other candidate but, i mean, we're talking about people who never would have had careers in politics are now the frirns for the republican party in important and key races in key states. now, that could be good news for democrats, but is it good news for democracy? >> to that very point. i used to work at a fox affiliate.

the fox affiliates are not fox news. yes, she was a pretty norm core journalist. as a matter of fact, let me play a little bit of it. you teed it up for me. she wasn't in a vampire thing but here is kari lake interviewing president obama in 2016. that's not that long ago. >> good to be here. thank you so much for having us. >> thanks for having me. >> you want to talk about your supreme court nominee and a lot of people support the senate republicans saying they should hold off this and that it's a smart thing to do. how do you convince them otherwise? >> well, who i would say to the people of arizona is our democracy only works when people play by the rules. >> thank you so much for your time. we appreciate it. >> great to see you. >> to what extent, alex, is some of this theater? you've gone out and you've interviewed real 3%ers and real oath keepers? someone like kari lake appears to do a theatrical pose that she thinks will get her into office. how much of this is theater, and

how much is real do you think among some of these republican candidates? >> kari lake said as recently as last week that she's already seen some stealing going on in this election, and if that's not theater, what is that? tudor dixon, a tv personality on "america's voice news "kwhot was starring in zombie and vampire films and wants to replace inclusion and diversity counsellors with armed guards in school. i mean, are these serious candidates, and that makes chris kobach in kansas who game up with a goose egg looking for election fraud. he was ordered to go to remedial law classes because his grasp of the law was so faint that. guy now wants to be the attorney general of the state of kansas. i mean. >> yeah. >> yes, to answer your question i think a lot of this is

theater, but it's theater that's convincing a certain section of the american public and it makes one wonder how, how, how has this poison coursed so effectively through the grand ole party? >> yes, indeed. rusty bauers, we heard his torment during the january 6th committee hearings. initially said he would still vote for donald trump. he's now changed his mind and told jonathan carl that he wouldn't but even after all that was discussed in the hearings he said he'd still vote for them. there's one in maryland who is now the nominee in governor. a state like maryland could go in this direction. you're now in arizona, want to get your comment. arizona officials were warned from the "new york times." kell ward, the chairwoman of the arizona, the one who kicked rusty bauer out and said he's persona non grata and kelly town accepted, the state senator were said to investigation pressed concerns to trump's lawyers in 2020 about participating into a plan to sign on to the fake elector scheme.

they feared the actions could be seep as trees op. they knew it was illegal. so you have people who in their rational mind are understanding things that will get them into legal problem but are still doing it. i can't ups that motivation. >> like when in high school and somebody said let jump off the roof into the swimming pool and others say couldn't we break our next? you know that attitude. it's juvenile and people actually don't think seriously about the cons kwepsz roar willing to risk it all. the notion of civil service it is a fallacy within the public party. it seems like nothing more than a naked grasp for power. >> yeah. >> and their comfort with that should be disturbing to everybody. >> absolutely. >> this is so much fun. i could do this for an hour but, unfortunately, i cannot. i have to go. i have to do a commercial break. alex wagner, i'm so excited about your show and two weeks from this very night august 16th

we'll be a watching you on the premiere of "alex wagner tonight" at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. girlfriend, i'm so excited to have you back. >> thank you, thank you. i'm so excited to be back. >> thanks you. have a great evening. and while you're waiting for tonight's results, do not miss my piece on msnbc president come on why the 2022 mid terms might be the most important election of our lifetime. that's not hyperbly. up next on "the reidout," the first test of abortion rights at the polls since the end of roe. we'll be right back. e the end oe we'll be right back.

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there was a doctor by the name of george tiller in wichita, kansas. he provided abortions there for more than three decades. one of the few doctors in the nation who performed abortions late in pregnancy for women with serious health conditions and those carrying fetuses with severe or lethal anomalies. those who opposed abortions, including sleptence extremists, fixated on this doctor, protesting outside his house, his church and his clinic. in 1986 that clinic wag bombed. anti-abortion violence is a current domestic terrorism threat that began in the early 1970s. we're talking vandalism, arson, bombing, along with threats of harassment and intimidation targeting doctors like dr. tiller. in 1993 an abortion opponent shot him in both arms. tiller survived, but in 2009 tiller was shot dead during worship services at his church in wichita where he was serving as an usher.

ten years after that horrific assassination, the cap sass supreme court ruled that the state constitution protects the right to an abortion, and in this very state fraught with the history of anti-abortion extremism and terrorism voters today are deciding whether to remove that protection providing the first electoral test in america since the fall of roe. the result of that referendum are expected in just a few hours. joining me now is nbc news correspondent dasha burns and mini tamaraju, president of narall. thanks for both being here. i know you have been talking with canvasses, and i want to play a little bit of sound of that before i hit you with a question. here it is. >> this particular vote is bothersome to me because of the way that the church has been used to sway people and mislead people, and i don't want the church to be used in that manner. i think all of my parishioners deserve to make the choices that are best for them which means i'm ultimately a pro-choice

person. >> laura fill since a reverend, a pastor, and to her point iners it of the -- "kansas city star reports" that the ballot question, $10 million, the fund raising has been about $10 million as this vote nears and the susan b. anthony pro-life organization, a lot of money coming from the chamber of commerce. what reseeing on the ground and when are you hearing from women as you talk with them? >> well, joy, we've been talking to canvassers and we've been talking to voters and to providers, and you played some of that video of dr. tiller. we've actually visit that had clinic where he used to work, and i'll tell you the fear, the anxiety is very much real for abortion providers in this state about what comes next and about those types of threats. a lot of providers don't want to work in kansas because of the history that you just mentioned there, and right now kansas

really is the epicenter of the battle on abortion rights in the nation, and in just a couple of hours here opponents of the amendment will be gathered in this room to watch and to wait to learn the fate of abortion rights in this state. joy, the stakes could not be higher, because since the fall of roe many of these surrounding states have enacted all-out bans or significantly restricted abortions, so kansas has had women coming from missouri, from texas, from arkansas, oklahoma, seeking care here. the phones have about ringing non-stop at clinics, mostly from women outside of the state seeking this procedure here, so people are very much aware of that. and this amendment, to be clear about what it does. there's been confusion about the wording and when a yes vote means and what a no vote means. this amendment would strip the protection for abortion rights from the kansas state constitution. it would then put the power to

make those decisions in the hands of the republican super majority in the state legislature here which would then open the door to possible restrictions and potentially as many abortion rights advocates fear a ban on abortion, and i'm telling you this has been the conversation in the state. it's impossible to avoid signs, rallies, even concerts held here. people are aware that the nation is watching because what happens here, joy, not just how kansans vote but how many voting right, is going to be a major bellwether for the mid terms in november and i'll tell you just anecdotally today we were at a polling location in gardner, kansas, the last time in 2018 in the primary they had about 300 voters show up. they have already doubled that as of a couple hours ago, so the engagement is real. what happens tonight though still -- still to be seen, joy. >> and i should note -- thank you for that information. i should note that the catholic church, the susan b. anthony

catholic church has spent their 2.5 million. a lot of church funding going into this, and to that point about the confusion. there's been a misinformation campaign that's been taking place in this state. misleading kansas abortion texts have been linked to a republican-align firmch the messages were sent using numbers leased by alliance form, a nevada-based firm, and crafted by a pac led by former congress many tim huelskam. it says voting yes will give women a choice. the truth it it's vote no. voting know is what -- it's a congusing wording which is done a lot of times to trick people into voting for the opposite of what they want. what do you make of the fact that this republican firm led by a former republican congressman from kansas is literally lying to people sending out text

messages to try to trick them into voting to throw their rights away? >> i think they are tear five-day. i think we have to -- the surge of catholic church money in the state, they are looking at the same numbers we're looking at. this is unprecedented enthusiasm for a republican primary, really frankly a republican primary ballot in a mid-term year. they put this initiative on ballot expecting very little interest and very little turnout in kansas, and now we're seeing a surge of enthusiasm. on the ground, you can't escape it, and we're seeing republican women coming out and voting no much like the woman you just interviewed, the minister. you know, we've got volunteers on the ground right now knocking doors, and they are telling us stories about republican households are going -- are furious that this is on the ballot, furious that it's being snuck under this ballot initiative in an august primary ballot, so i think what you're seeing sippedcation of how

incredibly close this is in a situation where it frankly shouldn't have been close, right? kansas is by all means, by all analysis a moderate state, but i think we're going to see a big repudiation tonight. i also want to mention we're seeing volunteers from other states. you mentioned patients coming from other states. we're seeing volunteers from places like arkansas coming into kansas to tell their stories at the gears how bad abortion bans are in their states. >> and can i just show this map because here's the issue, and dasha did answer this. and i have another question for you. this is the state of play. the states where essentially are state property. all the red states you're seeing has the most restrictive abortions meaning if you live in one of the states this is how far you have to go to get to a free state where there's less restrictions like florida or nebraska or where you -- or where it's a fully free state, places like colorado or look how far you have to go, so that's one of the other issues, right,

is that if this then becomes another essentially unfree state, it becomes a state property state. women will then have to jump states and have to go further and further away, right? >> exactly this. map is critical townsing why kansas is so important to access an abortion for people throughout the midwest and the south. i'm from texas where obviously access has been decimated, and you saw oklahoma quickly follow. kansas is really not just a political ballot ground right now because of the ballot initiative, but a fight for access and that's why we're seeing volume tears and coming from neighbor is states like texas, like oklahoma, like arkansas into kansas to talk to voters this weekend. >> let me play attorney general merrick garland. today he did announce that the department of justice is going to file a lawsuit challenging idaho's abortion law arguing it violates federal law which requires medical providers to offer emergency care that can

include abortion. take a look. >> it does not matter what state subject to mtala comes in. if a patient comes into an emergency room with a medical emergency, jeopardizing the patient's life or health, the hospital must provide the treatment necessary to stabilize that patient. this includes abortion. >> dasha, i'm wondering when you speak with women, not just kansans but voters, are people expressing concerns that a ban on abortion in the state of abortion could mean that people with ectopic pregnancies with health concerns could lose their lives, or are you hearing concerns about a national ban because that has been talked about fairly openly. >> i'm hearing all of those concerns across the board. from republican women, from people of all religious backgrounds. this is not as red or blue or

black or white an issue as it's often painted, especially in washington. there is a lot of concern, even from fairly conservative women, that a ban could encompass no exceptions for rape or incest or for the life of the mother. the ectopic pregnancy, a lot of people have store likes like that and i'm that concern across the board and people have been watching the surrounding stays go dark and will worry more and more will owe car. most women want control over their open bodies. they don't republican men making bills to slip in. still ahead, speaker nancy defies chinese threats to lead a congressional delegation to taiwan. some are calling it courageous

and others say it's reckless. we'll get into that and more next. s reckless we'll get into that and more next

most women want control over next. most women want control over next

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vote yes on 27. fresh off the big announcement that a united states drone strike killed al qaeda's leader ayman al zawahri over the weekend, there was another major development on the foreign policy front today as house speaker nancy pelosi arrived in taiwan, defying warnings from china which claims the self-governed island is its territory. taiwan's tallest building was

lit up to welcome the speaker, but china immediately condemned the visit. moments after she landed, chinese state-run media report that had china's military would conduct military training exercises and drills in areas surrounding taiwan later this week. and the chinese ministry of foreign affairs called the speaker's visit a serious violation of the up-china principle threatening, quote, those who play will fire will perish byterm the speaker, a longtime critic of china, is the highest ranking american official to visit taiwan in 25 years. shortly after touching down "the washington post" published a op-ed by speaker please explaining her decision to visit the island. she wrote we cannot stand by as the chinese communist party proceeds to threaten taiwan. joining me is the host of the deep state radio podcast. it's always great to sigh. i want to show you a video. that is video of speaker pelosi's 1991 trip to tiananmen square which was tweeted out by

her in 2019, and it shows her and two other lawmakers unfurling a banner. she's a longtime critic of the chinese government, but you have been critical of this trip. explain, why because it does feel that it's a representation of standing up for democracy. >> well, i think it is a representation of that, and i think the speaker has a long track record of standing up for human rights in china, 0 years as you note, and she deserves a lot of credit for that, and, of course, i don't think the united states should be intimidated by the threats or the over-the-top rhetoric of the chinese. the question is why do this trip right now? there are a number of issues that are extremely sensitive involving the chinese that the administration is trying to handle. for example, the administration is trying to work with the chinese behind the scenes to keep them from providing weapons

to the russians in ukraine. the administration is putting pressure on china and a number of areas with regard to human rights. the administration has in fact really doubled down on security in the region having the first summit of the quad which involves japan and india and australia, creating an agreement between the australians, the uk and the u.s., creating an economic agreement in the region, and the administration suggested that speaker pelosi not go right now, so i don't think it's a question of is she doing the wrong thing or sending the wrong message? she's sending a good message. the question is whether she achieves anything and the united states benefits from her doing the trip right now, and i think there's a lot of risk to do it. >> well, let me just note that the nsc spokesman john kirby

respects the decision of the speaker to travel to taiwan. you did mention ukraine. i did want to talk about this. china being taiwan gives you russia v. ukraine vibes in the accepts that you have a big powerful nuclear power that covets a country or a land that wants to be independent of it and in the case of ukraine is independent of it. it's its own country. in the case of taiwan, is there a real threat that china would do what russia is doing to ukraine to taiwan? >> i think there's a threat that china would do it. not right away, not in the next couple of years perhaps, but i think the threat has grown, that at some point next three, four, five years, the chinese might move in and try to reclaim control over taiwan. having said that i think the big question is how the u.s. and how the u.s.' allies will respond to that, and i think the response might we will look like you. i think the analogy is a good

one because i think the united states is committed and has since the beginning of the one-china policy and the idea of defending taiwan, providing weapons to taiwan and helping to ensure that they can defend themselves without actually getting us into a superpower confrontation with the chinese. the chinese, by the way, are worried about this in another way. they are worried we're going to start providing new kinds of weapons to the taiwanese that will make them more secure, and i think that's one of the big issues we're going to have to deal with in the months ahead. >> yeah. i want to switch over and talk about afghanistan. since i've got you here, i'll take my full advantage of having you here. there's been a lot of drama on the republican side, people from the war hawks, people who have never seen a war they didn't like. tweeting mad that we left afghanistan, that we took troops out of afghanistan. i know you and i in the past agreed it was a good idea after

20 years. it was a good time. you've had people on the other side like adam kinzinger who served in the military said, no, it's a good thing we were able to take out zawahri without having a bunch of troops on the ground. where do you fall along that line, because there is -- the argument to me that zawahri's death somehow -- somehow proves that we shouldn't is left afghanistan because there's still al qaeda there, i don't see that they were left. >> well, they didn't. the haqqani network didn't leave. they were the ones who were hosting zawahri, but i think that this attack and getting zawahri is actually a vindication of the baden administration's policy. a year ago president biden said we are going to end this 20-year war. we're going withdraw our troops, but we've got the capability, using intelligence, use over-the-horizon weapons technologies and use the full

set of resources we've got to identify terror leaders and to eliminate them when we need to do it, and, you know, not only did they do that in this case fullfully. they did without any civilian casualties. it was a remarkable precision strike. it was a remarkable triumph on the part of the u.s. intelligence community, but as somebody in the administration pointed out to me today, it also means that osama bin laden and zawahri both were taken out by discreet strikes and not by massive land wars, and, you know, $3 trillion into the 20-year wars. thousands of u.s. dead and hundreds of thousands of dead elsewhere in the region. i think maybe one of the messages we should take away from this is this is what we should have been doing all along. >> amen. the land wars should be over at

least by the united states. always appreciate a chance to talk with you. coming up next the latest on american detainees. brittney griner and paul wheel ape, former u.s. marine trevor reed who was recently released from a russian prison as part of a prisoner swap joins me. don't go anywhere. back in a sec. s me don't go anywhere. back in a sec.

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called in an expert who testified that the state's examination of her vape cartridges was illegal. griner will return to court on thursday for closing arguments the one of her lawyers told reuters the trial should be over, quote, very soon. it all comes as ongoing talks between the white house and the kremlin continue on a potential prisoner swap. last week the u.s. or was to release viktor bout who is serving a 16-year sentence on espionage charges and the russians said they want the release of another russian national, a convicted murder though the administration dismissed that counteroffer as, quote, bad faith. one person who has been actively calling on the government to negotiate this swap for month is trevor reed who knows a thing or two about being a russian hostage. he was held prisoner by the kremlin for three years before being freed this past office. joining me now is former marine trevor reed. thanks so much for doing it.

i've been looking forward with talking to you. i want to get to one of the things that you said. you said this. this was a quote from you. there is no justice in russia. brittany and paul will not receive justice in russia. they will not receive a fair trial. they will not receive a fair investigation. they will not receive a fair investigation. you know that from experience when you make of the fact that this trial is ongoing? arguments being made in their proceedings a visit is a real trial? >> yeah, so that's all of facade. russia tries very hard to have the appearance of having a legitimate legal system while also extremely hard to make sure that there is absolutely no reality of that legal system actually working. everything that happens in side of the courtroom inside russia is largely just theater. it doesn't matter what kind of

evidence you have, it doesn't matter what laws or procedures the government has violated, they are not going to materialize into any type of actual justice. >> and obviously the kremlin saw you as having a marine as a hostage is to them a pretty big deal. now they have a w b wnba star. what kind of conditions where you held? and what kind of conditions would you seen the britney griner is being held in? >> across the board in russia, conditions are obviously terrible especially for americans, you're kind of caught off guard by those types of conditions. i was in certain cells, certain prisons where the cell looked like something you would see out of a movie about a prison in the middle ages. so if you've ever seen the movie brave heart, there's a

scene in there where he is in a dungeon in the middle ages in england and i lived in a cell that looked exactly like that. it's pretty shocking for anyone from the west for a modern civilized country to see and to especially be forced to live in those conditions. >> and i know that you became very ill and your situation was precarious until you are negotiated out by the biden administration with your family really pushing him to do that. you have to listen to this, i don't normally do this, i apologize to my audience as well. the former president of the united states talking about brittney griner. >> she knew you don't go in there loaded up with drugs, and she admitted. i assumed she admitted it without too much force because it is what it is. and it certainly doesn't seem like a very good trade, does it? he is an absolute, one of the worst in the world and he is

going to be given his freedom because a potentially spoiled person goes into russia loaded up with drugs. >> it's up to the president to get you out, it's gonna take a president like you said to get brittney griner and paul whelan out. in your view, what might it do to britney griner situation to have the former president attacker like that? >> you know, i am obviously not qualified to really answer that but i'm no expert, but my opinion on that is that the steele is not just a swap for brittney griner and victor booth. this also involves paul whelan twos, a combat veteran. he's been in prison for three and a half years and he is sitting there in prison with charges that are completely fabricated. he is innocent and i think that

should also be considered whenever you are talking about these types of deals. >> and we know that there is a third american their, his name is mark fogel, is been a russian president more than a year, is 61 years old, a teacher who lived and worked in russia for more than a decade. when you were there, was it ever communicated to you that your jailers saw you as a bargaining chip of some kind or did they communicate with you at all? >> i did have communication with guards and prison officials there. usually that was involving disciplinary action. i was resisting there actively the governments laws, i was refusing to work. so i was constantly involved in conversations with the prison administration there, but those

were not involving larger geopolitical issues. they were more concerned with trying to force me into work and i told him that that was not going to happen. >> yes indeed, well that is that marine training. trevor reed, thank you very much appreciate your time. we will be right back. we will be right back. you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card.

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kansas, the referendum on the ballot regarding reproduction rights. steve kornacki will be at the big board throughout the night to break down the results in kansas as well as primary results in missouri, arizona, michigan and washington state. do not go anywhere, you do not want to miss. assistants tonight's read out. good evening from new york, i'm charles filling in for chris says. polls of just closed in missouri, michigan and parts of kansas. voters are still casting ballots in arizona washington state. it's a big night especially on the republican side. we'll get to steve bernanke and the just a moment here the big races that we are watching tonight. in missouri it's eric greitens forces eric schmidt, for the republican nomination in the u.s. senate. greitens is the former governor who resigned in disgrace and