and the investigation into rudy giuliani. whether he'll face charges over his comments about ukraine. plus why a judge's comments, and sandy hook victims in court today. we've got it all covered here in washington. i want to bring in kelly o'donnell, our senior white house correspondent, and our senior political editor. kelly, let me start with you. get to the bottom line for us. what was this executive order that the president signed as it relates to abortion access? >> reporter: the truth is it is limited at this point. the president's power in the executive are limited because congress really needs to make big changes. what can the president do? in this, he is asking his own executive branch department, health and human services, to try to set up rule over the next 30 days to use medicaid, which is a joint state and federal program to help those women in

states where abortion is not legal because of the overturning of roe v. wade, and to see if they can travel to states where those services are legal, and to have an ability to transfer the kinds of benefits that include transportation in certain circumstances, and the medical care to allow those women to have access to abortion. to look at how could that be done under the law. so this is really the president signing an order that directs hhs to set up a program to do that. so with the stroke of the pen that the president did in just the last half-hour or so, there isn't a new power that is immediately granted. but it sets in motion. also, tells of medical provider to be reminded that they are bound by federal law in certain cases, not state law, when there are instances to make certain there's no discrimination against patients. so it could be life of the mother in certain instances, ways that they can set up rules where even in a dire case, they

actually would convene providers to remind them of what are the rules because when there is a conflict of state and federal, federal law prevails. so these are very bureaucratic type things. what practical impact they will have remains to be seen. but it is an example of how the white house is trying to use what leverage of authority it does have, and at the same time to use these moments, signing ceremonies, talking about these kinds of provisions, to say congress, please take action. and at the same time, using what happened in kansas to say, there is is a basis for this and a red state like kansas, to say to congress, there is a reason for congress to enact protections nationally now that the supreme court has acted, overturning what had been a constitutional right. >> yeah. it feel like democrats are seeking to, hoping to capture that momentum coming out of the kansas vote. to capitalize on that if they

can. thank you. let me turn to you and a couple of things. there is a new poll showing democrats doing better on a ballot. 50% saying they want a democratic controlled ballot. it is already a real sign voters are mobilizing, given that was the first time abortion was on the ballot post roe. i want to play for you what chuck schumer said about that this afternoon. watch. >> a strong pro-choice turnout we saw in kansas will continue well into the fall. and republicans who side with these extremist maga policies that attack women's rights do so at their own political risk. >> from what you're seeing, is the majority leader getting ahead of himself or does he have a point? >> what i do think is that abortion seem to be an issue that is galvanized democrats.

particularly in kansas and a lot of the polling we've seen after roe v. wade was overturned. and kansas was the first one we had. and we saw the results in a ruby red state. i think where it becomes more complicated for democrats and some of the caution we need to have three months from now when you do have the election, the mid-term, it won't be a simple referendum on abortion rights. it will be also, do you think the economy is heading in the right direction? what about president biden's job approval rating? what about gas prices? inflation and all those other messages that voters will have to weigh along with their own type of, am i a democrat or republican? those are more complicated questions in some ways than last night's simple referendum on yes or no on this constitutional amendment. >> one thing that you and i have talked about. ud 450,000 republicans voting in the gubernatorial primary last night. that's a lot more people than the number who voted basically

yes on the amendment. in other words, who voted against keeping the abortion access that is in kansas in place. do you see this as a potential warning sign to republicans across the country that their constituency should not be defined by anti-abortion values? >> yes, it is really consistent, as well as attitudes about, the supreme court overturn roe v. wade. most polls show 60 to 65% of americans said they disagreed with the supreme court's decision on that. so when we end up seeing numbers like we did on the back of envelope math about, 15 to 20% of republicans or people who participated in the republican primaries last night ended up voting for the side supporting abortion rights on that toogsal amendment. that to me is very consistent with a lot of polling that abortion isn't the 50/50 issue that you and i often see when we see democrat versus republican. biden versus trump.

it is more the 60/40, 65/35 issue. when we're just talking about abortion in general, that democrats and the side supporting abortion rights seem to have the advantage there. >> the other piece of this, too, is that yes, this was an august tuesday in the summer. turnout was huge as you talked about, comparatively, nearly double what it was in the 2018 primaries. that that, come november, it will not just be abortion on the ballot. it will be the economy and inflation and are gas prices, as they've continued to drop, will they keep dropping? will they lower? a lot of factors in play. >> absolutely. we won't have this simple referendum on abortion rights, do you support it, or do you support more restrictions in curtailing them? what i will say, hallie, going back to the first question you asked me about enthusiasm.

i think that is significant. in mid-term elections, usually the side that controls the white house and ends up controlling capitol hill, if you have unified control over washington, you often end up having a drop-off in enthusiasm. your side has gotten complacent. the opposition is the one. and all the polling i've seen into the biden presidency so far, the republicans have been the ones thug. if we see what happened in kansas last night, and in other polls where democrats are closing that enthusiasm gap, that does matter for november and might be the biggest thing and the biggest sign we end up seeing from last night, applying into what happens three months from now. >> thank you. good to see you as always. in about 90 minutes, the senate is set to vote to ratify sweden and finland's application to join nato. it would need two-thirds of people to vote yes. then they will turn to the tax, health care, reconciliation

package. senator sinema letting a spokesperson do the talking. watch. >> are you not going to say where you are until after? >> no comment. she'll be reviewing the text and she'll have to see. >> i want to bring in capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. while it is not at the top of the agenda for folks watching the politics going on, it is still critically important to allies. >> yes. critically important and it is next on the to do list as the senate tries to tick down the list of items that they think they need to accomplish before they go on this august recess. perhaps most politically important, now that they've gotten the pact act passed porting veterans, they're going to turn their attention to reconciliation. in the meantime we expect them to vote on the admission of these countries into nato.

we expect it to be a bipartisan vote. it does require two-thirds of the senate. so we've got to see 67 plus here. and look, we're looking into the two countries that would join the existing nato alliance here. two amendments that i'll appointment your attention to. one from senator rand paul that makes clear that any collective defense agreement that nato operates under doesn't super sede congress's role. and then from dan sullivan of alaska saying every member of nato should commit to the 2% goal of gdp spending. that's especially something we saw president trump during his tenure continue to try to push with nato allies as he was traveling internationally. so it makes sense that republicans would be reminding of that once again. but nevertheless, this is something we expect bipartisan backing on. it will pick up on in a few hours. >> so what their list of things is as they try to check them off before recess. obviously this big health care and climate spending bill is on

the list. we saw the spokesperson there. they've indicated they're waiting on the parliamentarian before saying anything else. what's the time line? is that going to get done on a weekend vote? >> this is my favorite questions to ask aides and senators. >> this is a little bit selfish because we'll probably be here if they decide to go over the weekend. they'll be willing to spend the weekend if that's what it takes to get this done before the senate goes on its august recess next week. the waiting game is two-pronged. sinema is laying out this metric of waiting for the parliamentarian. she is one prong of the waiting game. democrats don't know at this point how she will vote despite that she's talked to senator joe manchin about this. he says there are things in this bill that she should let thing like the medicare and drug provision that allows for

negotiating for pharmaceutical drug pricing. by the other thing is the parliamentarian will work at its own pace. they have the information they need. they've had this bill text for several days and they're working through it. his assessment was they are still on track to do this for the latter portion of the week. i think at this point, just the open question is, does the latter portion of the week mean friday? or does it mean into the weekend past friday? >> ali vitali. hold off on dinner plans, thank you. coming up, new developments in the long running investigation into whether rudy giuliani broke federal lobbying laws. why our sources are saying he probably won't face charges. we'll explain. plus, a big night for candidates backed by former president trump and arizona's primary. and candidates who have gotten on board with his election fraud lies. we'll check in on one contest still too close to call. plus the stunning moment in that defamation trial against

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all in one place. you're ready. comcast business. powering possibilities. ™ new details coming in now about an investigation into rudy giuliani with sources telling nbc news, it seems unlikely he will face federal charges for his dealings in ukraine. the former mayor, former attorney for former president trump has been under investigation by manhattan federal prosecutors for nearly two years. tom winters is scooping this story for us at nbc news. why not? why isn't giuliani likely to be charged? >> well, a couple different things. first off, the investigation as to whether or not he committed some sort of violation as it pertained to the ousting of the former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, as well as some of efforts that have have described that is an effort to dig up dirt on hunter wind.

biden with individuals tied to ukraine, a couple different hurdles. one, it is a little bit of a hey bar if you don't have a person on the other side that you are specifically doing work for. so when you look at this, giuliani, if he was to violate federal law, to be charged here, the people that he was working for would have had to have been people that were directly tied to the ukrainian government, or were there in some sort of official capacity that had hired giuliani. i don't know if that type of evidence is strong enough for prosecutors to bring forward charges. a couple reasons we're reporting this today. first, is that giuliani has had his personal electronic devices, and they took a whole bunch of them from his office and his homes in the course of the search warrant in april of 2021, hallie. those were all returned to giuliani. in addition to that, in february, he met with u.s. attorneys -- excuse me, the the assistant united states

attorneys, the prosecutors that bring the cases, as well as fbi agents, sat with them for approximately four hours. the trend has been toward not charging him. although the investigation has not concluded. it has not been officially closed. and giuliani said quoting the great yogi berra to our colleagues, it's not over until it's over. his guidance if he was the attorney for somebody else would be, look, this is a good step. it doesn't mean anything official yet. but certainly, the trend is to no charges. we should know, as far as any other investigations involving giuliani. we know about the one in georgia having to pertain to the 2020 election. any sort of federal investigations out of january 6th. this does not impact those at all. this will not impact any potential charging decisions down the line if there is criminality that is found as it pertains to those efforts by

giuliani. this is specific into the investigation into new york and the possible violation. that's what this is centered on. >> thank you for that reporting. coming up, the big call we're still waiting on out of arizona. with the wins for trump means the general in the fall. we're live in phoenix and with steve kornacki coming up after the break. the break. new puppy. thankfully, we also have new tide ultra-oxi with odor eliminators. between stains and odors, it can handle double trouble. for the #1 stain fighter and odor remover, it's got to be tide.

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ to a different investigation in the president's orbit. nbc news confirming that pat cipollone, white house counsel in the trump administration has been subpoenaed by the federal grand jury. talk to the significance of this moment. he's already talked to the january 6th select committee. now he's being subpoenaed to talk to the feds and the doj investigation. why does that matter? >> it matters because as you know, as we saw from the january 6th hearings, he is a crucial witness. he was present around donald trump on the day, during the assault on the capitol january 6th. he was in conversations with trump. he was in the oval office. he was also present for crucial

meetings as donald trump and people around him were seeking and planning to try to overturn the election. the false elector scheme or trump's efforts to co-opt the the justice department to get them to say there was fraud when there wasn't fraud. here's the big crucial thing, hallie. cipollone was able to refuse to answer certain questions before the january 6th committee, citing executive privilege and attorney-client privilege. mostly they believe he will not successes succeed in that before a grand jury. there's case law that says a federal criminal investigation overcomes privileges. he may require them to go to court to litigate so it may take some time. but it is very likely that he will have to answer questions about exactly what he heard from president trump on that day and other days. and what he thought his state of mind was. and that is crucial going forward. to primary night now, post primary morning or afternoon,

we're still waiting for results to come in in arizona. waiting for an official call in the arizona race for governor. we could get it any moment. the big question, will it help clinch the nomination for kari lake. you had former president trump, you have to think he's pleased with the results because he backed blake. he cast out on the legitimate amount could be in charge of them as he won the gop primary for arizona. he faces a general as well. this is what we can expect next. steve kornacki who has posted to the big board. we haven't made the call on the race for governor.

i think kari lake just appeared in phoenix. bring us up to speed. >> reporter: she just ended about five minutes ago. nbc has called it for lake. we expect her lead to grow here. the remaining ballots are those ballots that were mailed to folks but then they came in hand-delivered in the last 48 hours to their polling location. and we have seen that especially these kari lake republican voters were those who were, had the utmost concern about the ability of their ballots to make it safely to be counted. anyway. about what kari lake said here, it's important to note. we're talking about a general election campaign just 95 days away here. and there is some concern among republicans here about whether she would be able to bring over not only democrats and independents but we're talking about republicans like the

mccain family. i just asked her that she compared to a dysfunctional family. she said that john mccain reached on from the grave to hold on to the republican party. she said about mike pence that they once thought he was a good guy. so she used this, used, explained her republican opponents in ways that were beyond just political rivalries but actual perceived enemies, and i think that is going to be the challenge for her here ahead. >> we have a little bit of that interaction and i want to play it for folks right now. >> i want to bring the republican party together. i mentioned that earlier. we're one big happy sometimes, sometimes dysfunctional family but we can come together. i'm from a big family. so i understand that you don't always get along on every issue. i want to bring people together. and i think we have a great moment here where we can actually bring democrats into the fold. they're waking up to the lies of the democrat party. >> important to note, as you

have, as you well know, that she is an election denier. how much is she looking ahead to a potential general match-up? >> well, number one, kate hobbs is the current secretary of state who she has calling for the jailing of in the past because of the 2020 election. they're not offering any specific allegations of actual wrongdoing. she was asked about that a few moments ago and she did not walk back that statement that she has made in the past about jailing her democratic opponent here. it feel like a flash back to 2016 in tone. kari lake does not want the outcome that donald trump had here in 2020. we are used to a very combative kari lake in her interactions. not only with members of the press but her perceived political rivals, including those in the republican party. what we just heard here. a change in presentation here. and the big question is, can she

win over some of these suburban voters here in maricopa county to take on and win this governor's seat in november? >> running entirely on red bullet fumes, i'm sure, live for us from phoenix. for the week you've been there and longer, thank you. steve, let me turn to you. there's another piece of the story. we know that mere meijer has lost his race. how are the upcoming races, the ones that are still outstanding and there are two of them now and the upcoming ones on that front? >> we have the outcome here. peter meijer. he loses in western michigan, so meijer will end up being a pro impeachment republican defeated in a republican primary. also last night, in washington state. remember, primaries are different in washington state.

they have what they call the top two primary democrats, republicans, they all run on the same ballot. the top two finishers advance to the general election in november. you have the democrat finishing in first here in the third district. here is jamie herrera butler voted to impeach donald trump. incumbent congresswoman. and notice, there are a lot of votes to come. she has about a 5,000 vote cushion over joe kent. they do it slowly in washington. it may take some time. there is a chance that jamie herrera butteler will get this second spot and will advance to the general election. also, in the fourth district. dan newhouse voted to impeach donald trump. right now, democrats in first, republicans in second, and lauren colt about, 4,000 votes behind newhouse in third place. so newhouse and herrera butler actually do both have chances right now to advance from this

primary into the general election. it remains to be seen. takes a bit of time. we'll put the full score board on the screen for you. these are the ten republican who's voted to impeach trump. you noticed a bunch of them decided not even to run for re-election. in some cases, they could read the political writing on the wall. tom rice lost the primary in south carolina. peter meijer won last night. we have liz cheney to come in two weeks in wyoming. you have these two pending in washington. so far, david valadao in california survived his primary. interesting, he survived and if herrera butteler survives, they all ran in a different kind of primary. >> i was going to ask you. i feel like that's where the story line goes. >> anybody who shows up gets the same ballot.

so one of the things that can happen in those top two primaries is that maybe some democrats went out and just, they wanted to vote for one of these republicans. it is possible they could pick up some votes they wouldn't pick up in a normal primary that way. also word noting in the valadao, trump didn't get involved there. trump stayed out of that one and that probably helped valadao as well. we've seen the polling in wyoming. it is not a top two primary. it is a traditional primary. and cheney has been trailing against her challenger so it could be the situation, the only ones who survive are from the top two primaries. >> just a couple weeks away then. thank you. good to see you as always. up next, the new threats from china over house speaker nancy pelosi's high profile visit to taiwan. we talk about how else the u.s. could respond. plus, senate democrats with a very narrow path to pass the big climate and tax deal they want

to get done. can they get kyrsten sinema on board? alex padilla is here to talk about all of it. there he is, live, just ahead. t. . neighborhoods "open". businesses "open". fields "open". who doesn't love "open"? offices. homes. stages. possibilities. your world. open. and you can help keep it that way. ♪♪ the unknown is not empty. it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry. but one thing can calm uncertainty. an answer. uncovered through exploration, teamwork, and innovation. an answer that leads to even more answers.

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here's a look at some of the other top stories we're following right now. the suspect in that mass shooting in highland park, pleading not guilty in court today. he's accused of murdering seven people and hurting dozens more at a fourth of july parade near chicago. the next hearing is set for november. today's survival stories are coming out of kentucky as victims describe walking through waist-deep water, waiting on their roof tops to be rescued. thousands of people still do not have water and electricity. that's the next new crisis. this is deadly, too. at least 37 people have died because of this flooding. also this afternoon, the supreme court announcing when they will hear arguments in two land mark cases. oral arguments involving unc and harvard now set for late october. the court will decide if colleges can factor race and

ethnicity into which students are admitted. overseas house speaker nancy pelosi has officially come and officially gone from taiwan but her controversial stop is still creating a domino effect in the region. the house speaker is now in south korea with china launching military drills in the area, including ones planned within taiwan's territory tomorrow. this comes after weeks of warning from beijing against the visit. i want the bring in senator senator from california, alex padilla. senator, thank you for being back on the show. appreciate it. >> good to see you again. >> so let me start with what we just teed up here with house speaker nancy pelosi. you sit on the homeland security committee. do you believe the benefits of the speaker's trip outweigh potentially new threats from china? >> i believe this. it is not up to china to dictate where the speaker of the house of representatives can travel. that goes for anywhere in the world. and whether it is in taiwan or

anywhere else. standing up for democracy is always the right thing to do. >> have you told the speaker that you support her in that move? >> she doesn't need to ask me. i don't need to tell her. she knows. >> of course. californians, let me ask but a different interaction. that's one with senator kyrsten sinema who as you know is the critical linchpin here to getting done what you want to see get done, on clim reconciliation, et cetera. what is the latest on the conversations with her. is she asking about things like that tax provision that she has indicated she's previously opposed? >> there's so much good until the proposal that will get done over the next several days. you're not asking me about senator sinema. if i've gotten to know her at all, i know this much. she reads the language of the bill and will crunch the

numbers. so she hasn't asked me about specific tax elements or seeking amendments or what not. i think there's so much good in this that affects not just the cost of health care for the families of california and across the country, reducing the cost of prescription drugs. when we talk about the climate provisions, we see the mckinney fire in northern california, the largest already this year. and wildfire season is just getting started. arizona is in a similar situation. extreme heat, shortage of water, those things. so a lot for me to like about the bill, a lotter to senator sinema to like about it. >> given the amount of good that is in this bill, would you be okay, then, if for example thing she has previously opposed end up coming out of the bill? they're not make or break. specifically the tax provision. would you be okay with getting on board with something that a little different than it looks right now? >> we'll see. i don't want to deal with

hypotheticals. if we just look at the big categories here. can we take significant action to bring down the cost of health care? not just prescription drugs but the access to health care including the subsidies, that would be a huge win. not just for us but for working families across the country. in the process, making an historic investment in addressing climate change. it is not just wildfires in california and elsewhere in the west. we look at the flooding happening in kentucky. this is less than a year from when they had the devastating tornadoes in kentucky, outside of, quote, unquote, tornado season. extreme weather events are happening. if weather patterns are changing, it is because our climate is changing and we have to do something about it. >> let me ask you about a lot of the wheel in motion as it relates to access to abortion. you have the president's executive order. you have the ability to protect doctors. you have senator tim kaine that would codify under roe.

but your colleague, senator richard blumenthal. we caught up with him. he said he won't support that bill. listen. i think giving that power to politicians in robes is as bad as giving to it state legislatures because they've indicated they will cut back and eliminate those rights. >> are you at all concerned that the work that you and your colleagues and the president are doing is moot as long as there is a supreme court and legislatures that want to do away with it? >> democrats have been fighting since before the decision by the supreme court to protect a woman's right to an abortion. if that's their choice, and the rights abortion, it shouldn't be a state by state right. it should be codified into federal law. we tried that. republicans blocked it. we tried the make it clear that women have the right to make it across state lines to get the care they need.

republicans have blocked that. we've tried to codify the right to contraception. republicans have blocked that. republicans have continued to obstruct for health care providers in states where abortion is legal. and so we're continuing the fight here in congress. but i am absolutely encouraged by the voters of kansas who turned out in record numbers yesterday to uphold the right in the state of kansas. i think it is a strong message that everybody should lead as we approach the november elections. >> before i let you go, in the limited time we have left. a quick lightning round. one as it relates to the party at large. the other is something important to you in california. two top house democrats, jerry nadler and carol maloney have been forced into a face-off because of the redistricting. there were some interesting responses last night when it came to president biden and 2024. i want the play a piece of it. >> should president biden run again in 2024? >> too early to safety it

doesn't serve the purpose of the democratic party to deal with them until after the mid-terms. >> miss maloney? >> i don't believe he's running for re-election. >> maybe you can give a clear answer here. should the party be on the ticket in 2024? >> like i've heard president biden say, it is his intention to run. if he runs, i will support him absolutely. i also believe 2024 is 2024. we have mid-term elections. . so at stake. abortion care. we have to stay focused and be ready. >> i can't let somebody from california go without asking for your reflections on the loss of a legend, vin skully, who died overnight, we learned. somebody super important to people in that state. not just dodger fans but people who love baseball. >> thank you for asking. you know i'm a baseball fan. i grew all that dodger fan. as a kid growing up in los angeles in the 80s, dodger fan, listening to vin skully, his smooth voice, his story telling.

he was a legend. and will be absolutely missed. not just for dodger fans, baseball fans and the sports world beyond. >> thank you for being with us. coming up, harassed just for doing their jobs. how election workers have faced more threats. the courtroom twist that feels just like it straight out of law and order. what lawyers have revealed, next. rs have revealed, next ♪ but i like it, i love it, ♪ ♪ i want some more of it ♪ ♪ i try so hard, i can't rise above it ♪ ♪ i don't know what it is 'bout that little ♪ get a dozen shrimp for only one dollar with any steak entrée. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪things are getting clearer♪ ♪i feel free to bare my skin♪ ♪yeah, that's all me♪ ♪nothing and me go hand in hand♪

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even if they're mild don't wait, get tested quickly. if you test positive and are at high risk for severe disease, act fast ask if an oral treatment is right for you. covid-19 moves fast and now you can too. to the courtroom drama today with years in the making. alex jones back on the stand for cross-examination in his defamation trial where a jury will decide how much the info wars host has to pay for lying that the deadliest elementary school shooting was a hoax. obviously sandy hook was not a hoax. listen to what went down. watch. >> your attorneys messed up an entire digital copy of your entire cell phone with every text message you've sent for the

past two years. as of two days ago, it fell free and clear into my possession and that is how i know you lied to me. >> mr. jones, in discovery, you were asked, do you have sandy hook text messages on your phone and you said no. correct? you said that under oath, mr. jones, didn't you? >> i was mistaken. you have the text messages right there. >> you know what perjury is? >> nbc's benecol ins is following this one. >> his lawyers accidentally sent sandy hook lawyers who sat on it for ten days and revealed it in this dramatically important moment. >> right before closing arguments and that's when they revealed it and they let him lie for a few days, basically and that's what happened here. alex jones has been not handing things over to the discovery process. you have to hand over thing that

have to do with the case if they ask for them, in this case it would be texts and emails and stuff like that, but as a massive mistake and it is unclear how this happened, alex jones' lawyers sent over every email and every text since for years to the sandy hook family's lawyers and making him go back and say this was a lie and it wasn't rue and you said this under oath and this is not true. there is a very important implication right off the bat. his financials. no one has ever known what infowars makes. he said $150,000. turns out some days they make $800,000 which extrapolated over a year is $300 million. it's an enormous business. he said he would be broke if the settlement was over $2 million. that is definitely not true and definitely not the case. that's one of the implications and what does this mean for the january 6th committee who can probably subpoena these right now and they have the ability to

look through what alex jones was texting for years around the same time january 6th happened and if there was any direct communication for the white house and troyer, who is his other guy and they don't have a full cache like this. it is very interesting. >> this is part of an arc, too, of alex jones not telling the truth and it's what the trial is based on. this isn't a trial to determine whether alex jones lied and it's about the punishment. it's about how much money he has to pay and that's why the financials are so important. let me play the exchange between jones and the judge. watch. >> do you understand what i have said? yes or no. do you understand what i have said? >> yes. i believe what i said was true. >> you believe everything you say is true, but it isn't. your beliefs do not make something true. that is -- that is what we are doing here. just because you claim to think something is true does not make it true.

>> she just straight-up scolding him for lying, right? when he is under oath. before that she was reminding him. it's absurd that i have to tell you again to tell the truth, but the thing that i keep coming back to and that i think is important here is these families who lost -- this family who lost their kid at sandy hook and who have been not just gutted by grief, but by the nightmare in some ways that their life has become because of the conspiracy theories that jones has spread about them. >> one of those moms said he's a human being. alex has been coughing throughout the entire trial strategically and she went over and handed him a bottle of water and he went up to shake her hand and by the end of this interaction he was telling them that -- her that she was being manipulated by her lawyers and this is very rich coming from alex jones, using fake videos to manipulate her, and it became a

screaming match with no barrier between this person who has been lying about these people, these families for years, for a decade has been saying that what they went through wasn't real. either their kids were crisis actors or they themselves were crisis actors or were part of the fbi or all of these incredibly ridiculous things and trying to capitalize on their grief and apparently, this guy has more money than we thought and a woman who wanted to make amends, offer him a basic thing, like a bottle of water, and even he couldn't let that go and think about that when you think about what alex jones is in the future. >> bencollins staying on top of that. >> today on capitol hill you have justice department officials testifying on the senate committee on how many more threats there has been on election workers across the country with the doj announcing this week that its tank force has opened 100 criminal cases.

>> the threats to the election community remain a national public safety issue requiring a national response regardless of politics. the trauma experienced in this community is profound and unprecedented. >> i want to bring in jessica hughesman, editorial director of a nonpartisan vote on elections and a friend of the show. talk to us about this hearing. you've been watching this and at some points it got kind of emotional and i want to play one elect security adviser who talked about the personal info released by one of her former colleagues. >> docsing is a problem and across the election community. i apologize, senator, for getting emotional -- thank you. it -- it was unnerving, as you can tell, when my election director's information was put

out. that's part of why i joined is to provide state and local election officials with resources that they don't have. >> jessica, what should we know about the last few hours on the capitol -- at the capitol? >> you know, i think what's most striking is that that testimony was juxtaposed with the republican witnesses who literally said that these threats were not a big problem and that we should focus on other things. so it's especially upsetting, i think, to hear someone like kim wyman get as emotional as she did and candidly that's not the first time i have seen her cry over this. she cried with me less than two weeks ago in wisconsin at an elections conference about the same issue. so it was -- it was frustrating to watch these witnesses trade back and forth with incredibly

harrowing personal stories and immediate insistence by either the republican witnesses or even senator ted cruz saying that their problems weren't important. >> talk more about that, ted cruz at the hearing deflecting at one point talking about violence and anti-abortion senators. you have senator mike lee saying the task force is taking resources away from other crimes and the leader, de facto of the republican party president trump, doing well in their primaries in arizona. talk about the real-life impact of this that what you are seeing. >> you know, it's so fascinating because i think that what we need to recognize is that it's not that these republicans who are making a big deal about vandalism at anti-abortion centers are making a big deal out of today and it's not that they don't know harder and more intrafrjment problems than this. they heard ruby freeman testify

about the january 6th commission. there have been half a dozen hearings this year alone on the threats to election officials. it's not that they don't know what's happening and it's just that they don't care and i think that that is a frustrating thing for election officials who have had to flee their homes, who have had to spend thousands of dollars of taxpayer money to hire private security for these events and for their own homes and it's frustrating for them to hear that really, their problems don't matter to their elected officials because that's literally what they said today and they recognize that they're happening. they just don't think it's a problem. >> jessica huseman, i'm glad for staying on top of them. thanks to all of you as always for watching this hour of msnbc reports. find us on nbcnews now for show number two on the streaming channel. see you there. for now, "deadline: white house" picks up after the break. : whit" picks up after the break you get a smile on your plate.

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hi there, everyone. it's 4:00, i'm michael steele in for nicole wallace. for the first time since roe versus wade was struck down by the supreme court, voters got a chance to weigh in on abortion rights and by stunning, nearly 17-point margin kansas residents rejected a measure that could have led to abortion rights being