hi there, everyone. it's 4:00, i'm michael steele in for nicole wallace. for the first time since roe versus wade was struck down by the supreme court, voters got a chance to weigh in on abortion rights and by stunning, nearly 17-point margin kansas residents rejected a measure that could have led to abortion rights being eliminated from the state

constitution. politico reports this on the fallout of the referendum, quote, turnout soared in canas despite advisory and little else to draw democrats to the polls yet in a state where trump beat president joe biden by 15 percentage points in 2020, the amendment was failing badly in a brushback to republican legislators who are preparing to move legislation's stricting abortion, and if the politics of roe proved fruitful for republicans in kansas, it will be even more treacherous for the gop and swing more moderate swaths of the country and here's how abortion rights advocates pulled it off according to "the new york times," quote, registered republicans far outnumber democrats in kansas and they made explicit appeals to unaffiliated voters and center right voters. in interviews last week in johnson county, texas, a number of voters said they were registered republicans and opposed the amendment, a dynamic that certainly played out across

the state given the margin. the result which came as a big surprise to everyone has energized democrats and here's what president biden said today on executive order on abortion access. >> the decisive victory, voters made it clear that politicians should not interfere with the fundamental rights of women and the voters of kansas sent a powerful signal that this fall the american people would vote to preserve, protect the right and refuse to let them be ripped away by politicians. >> joining our coverage ashley parker, washington post senior national political correspondent and an msnbc political analyst and with us axios political reporter and also an msnbc contributor and former congresswoman and friend donna edwards, democrat from the great state of maryland. alexy, let's begin with you. nbc news was in the room last night as the no camp was celebrating. here's just some of what people were saying.

>> i am really proud that our state came through and decisively won. i am very happy for me. i'm very happy for my daughters and my family. >> i am very proud of our fellow kansans that stepped up and voted and made their voices known that this was unacceptable and we needed to maintain our freedom of choice in kansas because they were asking us to strip the rights, the privacy rights of 51% of our population. >> what's the message that kansans sent to the rest of the country tonight? >> don't mess with us. seriously, there's more of us than there are of them that are trying to attack our reproductive rights and freedom. >> euphoria. relief. excitement. i can imagine a lot of democrats and pro-choice folks are celebrating today. >> in conversations that i've had with democrats and pro-choice activists, they

certainly are celebrating and you all have seen the state, democrats across the country including gubernatorial candidates are mobilizing and trying to build on the momentum that they're seeing from the euphoria that you played in those clips after the victory in kansas. i'm thinking of places like georgia, brian kemp cut a new ad talking about ashgsz borgz and we're seeing democrats in pennsylvania and michigan go after their republican opponent on this issue and democrats are saying, look, not only is it easier to draw a contrast with republicans now that we have these nominees in place and now we have something tangible, they say in kansas to really remind democratic base voters in particular. this is how you can help make a difference even when the supreme court is overturning roe versus wade. >> so help us understand a little bit about how the no camp actually pulled this off. we're talking kansans. this is a red state and it was during a republican primary in the middle of summer.

what happened here? >> my reporting in the past has grown that groups like the aclu nationally and their chapter in kansas had been organizing pumping money into educating voters across the state in kansas and other places about this exact ballot measure and educating people, michael on the fact that their state constitution is really responsible for your ability to have access to an abortion or not because of what the supreme court has done and so they spent hours and they've been knocking on doors and educating people and a big thing about this that even anti-abortion leaders will admit is they said democrats did a good job of messaging on this issue and not so much focusing are you pro-choice or for abortion or rather are you for constitutional freedoms? do you want to make a change to the state constitutional and that language is more appealing to moderates as seen in the

numbers we've seen yesterday. >> i've known you for a long time and i've come to know your voice on this issue, but i want to get your reaction to what happened last night in kansas? >> i think one of the things that's really clear is that the abortion issue while we thought it was theory that it could be animating for voters, last night's results in kansas proved that to be true and so i think the question is how democrats really can seize on this who are democrats who are overwhelmingly pro-choice can seize on this victory in kansas and turn that into electoral victories for candidates, and i think it's -- i think it's incredibly inspiring. voters were saying we want to protect constitutional rights and we're not about taking away those constitutional rights, and i think this is very instructive for democrats going forward and

we always knew that the polls showed that voters, republicans, democrats and independents strongly support abortion rights and last night proved that theory to be absolutely true. >> so, ashley, meanwhile on earth, too. what's the reaction from republicans from within the state and across the country? any signs that they're going to be looking to try this again? >> well, look, even when you looked at the republicans in kansas or the vote yes camp, the people who wanted this amendment that would essentially take away constitutional protections for abortion, even their language sort of recognized the basic political reality in the polls which is that the majority of the country and it's not just democrats, believes in some sort of access to abortion. people draw the lines in different places, but things like exceptions for rape, incest

and the health of the mother have broad support. so when they were trying to get people to vote yes, they were saying, look, this would actually ban abortion and this would take the constitutional protections out of the state constitution and kick it to the legislature which to be fair, in effect, would ban abortionses and big point is that republicans going into what they tried to do in kansas under stood that this is not the easiest thing for them to message. it's not about messaging. it's about how voters, men and especially women feel in the supreme court decision and this amendment is out of lockstep with mainstream america and not just democrats and not just the progressive left wing. >> so, ashley, all indications are still very much in play that democrats will be facing a very tough midterm environment and there's no doubt about that. do you feel like they got a shot

in the arm from yesterday's vote in kansas? >> absolutely. every democrat and white house official and republicans, as well and i've spoken to today and late last night, there's no two ways about it. this verdict in kansas is good news for the democrats. there was a question about just as donna mentioned how galvanizing would the issue of abortion be? it doesn't always rate as a top issue on polls, just how much would that supreme court decision help galvanize voters in november. i think one question that we don't yet know the answer to and they have a shot in the arm because this issue outperformed biden in kansas and it underperformed trump. as good as kansans were showing up in many cases specifically to vote on an abortion amendment. when you have a candidate, that is a candidate that has an issue

on abortion, but they also have a position on inflation and on the size and scope of government, on the second amendment, and so i do think it will be interesting to see just how much this translates to actual candidates where roe and abortion rights that is part of the platform, but not necessarily the entire platform. >> so, alexy, steve kornacki of the big board fame has some remarkable stats on how abortion rights supporters pulled it off. the numbers of no voters is almost 90,000 more than the number of democrats and independent voters in the primary which means that nearly 20% of no voters were, guess who? republicans. so we're looking at a bipartisan coalition of voters who came together who came out against this measure, aren't we? >> yeah. that's exactly right and it goes out to what the congresswoman and ashley were saying that it cuts across lines and socioeconomic status and abortion is something that affects everyone and you've had one yourself and it's very tangible, unlike some other

issues that people might care about and be talking about and the other thing that i was mentioning is that a lot of the branding and messaging from democrats and pro-abortion folks on this constitutional amendment was more focused on whether or not you as a voter in kansas wanted to see changes to your state constitution. think, people knew it was for abortion protections or getting rid of them, but they also know that that language is something that will appeal to republicans as we've seen in addition to democrats. >> donna, i want to play for you some remarks from kansas democratic congresswoman cherise davis who was with us on "morning joe" this morning on how democrats and pro-choice campaigners got their act together. >> when the dobbs decision came down, i think we saw this across the country and i saw it in the kansas third and i saw it and i heard from people, people were scared and had tons of anxiety

for them, for their kids, for their grandkids and i think rightfully so. i hope that people can see that getting engaged and making sure that you're making your voice heard, people are knocking on doors and making phone calls. there was so much energy and i've heard the word excitement used as it relates to our win last night, but it wasn't just that. it was relief. >> so was there something to be said here about defeating an anti-abortion measure in kansas of all places that those in the activist effort here have sort of blunted that momentum of the pro-life movement everywhere. is this just isolated to kansas? >> first of all, i don't think it's isolated, but i think that congresswoman davis' district is instructive. she represents a swing district in the suburbs of kansas city,

and i think that her description of the motivation and energy that voters have around this issue is absolutely true. i think this bodes well against the conventional wisdom about how democrats are going to fare in november because i do believe that candidates will have the ability to translate this into that same fear that voters are feeling all over the place which is that their constitutional rights have been stripped and that they have to do something active to protect them and so i'm looking forward to seeing how candidates across the board are going to turn an issue vote into an electoral vote for their candidacies come the fall, and i know that it's competing with a lot of other issues, but democrats actually have some momentum on things like guns and inflation with reconciliation

bill and abortion rights, and so i would say they're having a really good summer. >> so i actually want to pick up on this momentum and the efforts by some that want to blunt momentum. pacs sent out misleading text messages ahead of the vote. a text meant that approving that measure could allow the republican-controlled legislature to outlaw abortion would safeguard choice if the amendment fails. constitutional protections would remain in place, buttressing the current law that allows abortion in the first 22 weeks of pregnancy and it seems like supporters of the amendment used every trick in the book and yet somehow they still lost on this one. >> yeah. that's exactly right. i mean, it was not a winning argument for them as the congresswoman and alexy and i mentioned on the merit when you're trying to get someone to vote in a way they don't feel

comfortable voting by lying to them or sending them a misleading message and it means that you don't believe that on the merit you can persuade voters. again, you also saw in one of these groups who were trying to persuade voters to vote yes. they were claiming that it didn't actually take away women's rights to abortion and reproductive care which would have technically been true and that's basically what this amendment did and that's what voters in kansas understood and that's why they showed up in the numbers that they did and another number that speaks to this moment and it will be interesting to see if they can turn it into an electoral issue instead of just an issue vote, but it is originally going in, was there a sense that for this amendment, for the no camp to win, blue, urban, dense areas would have to outperform in turnout which they did. turnout was significantly higher, but it wasn't that the

red and rural parts of kansas voted yes, and the blue parts voted no and the blue parts just overwhelmed it. there were a lot of people in really red, western, rural kansas who also oifred as a republican, and maybe voted for former president trump and voted for biden in 2024 if he runs and might not vote for a democratic candidate in the midterms and turned out to vote down this amendment and let's speak to the momentum on the sides of abortion rights, activists and believers. >> yeah. donna, picking up on ashley's point because there is a lot of energy out there in that regard. so here's the rub. you and i have been in these battles and those big political battles and you go out and do the messaging and do the work. what does it say if you have to trick your voters into voting for your side, right? what does that say about not just the probability of your

success, but the basic message you're putting out to voters. >> it really says that you don't believe in your argument and you're arguing against the tide. i mean, we know that in kansas, for example, that there are rural women and men who also support abortion rights. we're talking about something that was enshrined in their state constitution. it wasn't just a statute that was passed. it was enshrined in their constitution and again, voters do not like having the idea -- the idea of having constitutional rights taken away from them, stripped away from them, and so i think the opposition side really was just not convinced of their own argument and as a result, they couldn't convince voters of that argument either. >> so, donna, just a final question to you on this. as we step back and look at kansas in the rearview mirror, did the campaigners there just

write the post-book for democrats. should they protect or expand abortion rights? what's your thought there? >> i think the short-term goal has to be elect pro-choice democrats, people that you know -- people who you know will protect your constitutional rights and i think it's a strong argument that democrats have going forward to make an appeal both to centrists, but also to independent voters, to those swing republican voters and keep in mind, they're not going to need to win these districts and states by 18% and they can win with 5% and 2% in some of these races and that may be the difference maker on abortion rights and so i think it's a good time for democrats to be thinking strategically about lou to convey the argument. >> alexy parker, donna edwards,

thank all of you very, very much. i appreciate it. we've had some sad breaking news to bring to you, just in the last few minutes kevin mccarthy announcing the death of congresswoman jackie walor ski congresswoman of indiana. leader mccarthy writing, quote, dean, jackie's husband was just informed by the eckhart county sheriff's office that jackie was killed in a car accident this afternoon. she has returned home to be with her lord and savior jesus christ. please keep her family in your thoughts and prayers. we will have no further comment at this time. our condolences, of course, are with her family. when we come back being more on the primary races yesterday. more on multiple states from the trump-backed election defires from arizona and michigan setting the stage for the congress, and a look if democrats can fend off this

extreme maga republicans. plus, the justice department ramping up its investigation into january 6th and the ex-president's conduct around that day. pat cipollone, trump's white house counsel subpoenaed by a grand jury. what he knows and how his shield of executive privilege may not protect him any longer. new reporting on how the rnc is teaming up with stop the steal advocates at polling locations. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after this. don't go anywhere. house" continues after this don't go anywhere. ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. ♪ ♪ the unknown is not empty.

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in arizona, trump-endorsed blake masters won a primary fight for the gop senate nomination as for trump's pick mark fincham, an election denier who has publicly acknowledged his affiliation oath keepers. kari lake maintains a narrow lead in a race too close to call. lake who questions 2020's results has declared herself the winner, while rusty bowers, the speaker of the arizona house who gained attention for testifying against mr. trump lost his bid for the state senate last night. in michigan, freshman congressman peter meijer whose first vote in office was to impeach the ex-president was defeated by former trump administration official john gibbs and trump's last-minute choice for michigan commentator tudor dixon who has echoed his

false claims of election fraud easily won her primary. joining us now, jeff timer of the michigan republican party and co-founder of the republicans and independents for biden. jeff, welcome. >> great to see you. >> great to see you, man. adrian fuentes who oversaw the election in 2020 was so alarmed last night and said this to the post, this could be the last time we have free and fair elections. just how bad was last night for democrats? >> well, i mean, it was -- there's mixed signals for democrats. one, the -- what we saw in kansas and what we've seen in poll after poll since roe was overturned was a shift in enthusiasm in momentum for the democrats, that you talk a bit about in the last segment and i think that matters, but the risk

of pro-democracy americans and the risk for pro-democracy americans is significant in states like pennsylvania, in michigan, in wisconsin and in arizona where these trump-endorsed candidates who doubled down on the big lie say they wouldn't certify the 2020 election, some would go so far as to decertify the 2020 election, and they indicate they won't certify the 2024 election. they're very extreme on issues like abortion where they -- in the case of the nominee in michigan don't support abortion even in the case of rape and incest or saving the life of the mother and that's extreme and that's a real shift that shows you how the needle has moved and how the abnormal has become normalized in these years under donald trump. >> so, let's pick up on that, how the normal has become abnormal under trump because one of the features of that is to

lie, is to say something that is not factually confirmed or correct and we saw that with the arizona's kari lake in her bid last night. she just came out and flat-out said i won. she declared the victory. is that something that we should see playing out as we head into the fall particularly if some of these races are close? this was in a republican primary. this was not a general election. >> sure. well, the aggrieved loser it must be because of the fraud was rigged against me and the genie is out of the bottle now and it is not used against republicans and weaponized against democrats and it is going to be used by republicans in primaries, but i think we have to expect what we've seen after the 2020 election, what we're seeing from kari lake last night and today. we have to expect that that's going to become more of the norm as we head into the 2022

election and certainly in the 2024 election. what the risk here is is that these election deniers, these people are intentionally running with the premeditated motive to throw a wrench in the gears of democracy, be it in 2022 or 2024 with the sole purpose of putting their thumb on the scale regardless of how their state votes. they want to put their thumb on the scale for whoever their nominee is for president. if we have to rely on who is counting the votes to determine who wins the election, democracy will be in real trouble. i think that's a big piece of what we have to look and pay attention to is how these election ballots are accounted. real quick before i let you get out of here. the dccc spent $425,000 calling peter majors' john gibbs conservative and trumpy and just play to his good side among

those hard core republicans. there's blowback on that. we now see from those types of races. what's your thought on the dccc or any party sort of playing at that level in these campaigns? >> well, i think that's -- that merits some consideration and debate, and i think we will have to wait until after december to see the soundness of the strategy, but i think it's important to point out that peter meijer was going to lose that election from the moment he cast the impeachment vote. that die was cast. i don't think the dccc had any effect on the outcome of that race. they're getting a lot of attention because of the unorthodox interference of the race, but i think he would have lost regardless of what the dccc did. jeff timer, thank you so much. i appreciate you stopping by. attorney general merrick garland inching another step closer to donald trump. the ex-president's former white house counsel subpoenaed by the doj. that story is next. doj. that story is next per

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>> this is probably bad for former president trump. i mean, if he goes in front of the grand jury it shows that this is more than, you know, what did john eastman do, the attorney that basically came up with that crazy scheme to overturn the election and it probably has a deep interest in what the president did. we'll see where this goes, but there's no doubt that this investigation has developed further than where we thought it was a few months ago.

>> january 6th committee member republican adam kinzinger is how potentially bad things could be for the ex-president now that the justice department has subpoenaed his former white house counsel pat cipollone. cipollone is now the highest ranking january 6th-era white house official called to tough in the federal grand jury's criminal investigation into that day. it's a significant step in what has become the doj's focus to the ex-president's conduct. and we already have a pretty good idea of what he could tell them. last month the january 6th committee shared some of their interview with cipollone who repeatedly tried to stop some of trump's most extreme efforts to overturn the elections. cipollone testified that he vehemently pushed back on terrible ideas with serious legal risks like seizing voting machines and that he and other trump officials believed there was no sufficient evidence of fraud. joining us now "new york times"

congressional reporter luke brudwater and msnbc former u.s. attorney joyce vance. luke, walk us through your reporting and what this says about where the doj investigation is leading at this moment. >> i think what we're seeing is that the doj started out early on in this investigation on the day of january 6th going after the rioters and they charged more than 800 of them at a time. what happened in that next year and a half was that the house committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol sort of got ahead of doj and they started going deep into the investigation, into the trump white house and they started laying out lots of evidence about the fake electors' scheme and other plans for donald trump to stay in power and they provided, in my view, a road map for where doj can go next as they work up from the rioters up the food chain

and higher ranking officials and the trump administration and this was major news that the top two lawyers in the trump white house, pat cipollone and pat philbin has received subpoenas from the justice department to testify and we know that the justice department is asking questions about donald trump himself. so again, we're seeing a buildup of the case and i think they're looking very specifically at the former president. >> so, joyce, we've been here before. we've heard it before, right? but should trump really be worried right now? >> so the point you're raising, i think is one we have to be willing to contemplate which is that not all criminal investigations result in charges being filed. that can either be because there's insufficient evidence or for a variety of other legal reasons. you know, if you're donald trump, the eternal optimist who believes that you're teflon coated then maybe you're not

worried yet, but he absolutely should be because the value of bringing in people like the former white house counsel signifies that doj has gotten serious about this investigation and no matter where they were in 2021, here in 2022, they want to know about conversations that the former president had with his white house counsel who may be uniquely situated to talk about the former president's views perhaps on whether or not he accepted the notion that he had lost the election and very important lie, how he responded when he was confronted with the fact that his schemes to remain in power were increasingly approaching illegal territory up to and including what he did on january 6th. >> so, luke, speaking of conversations, here's some of cipollone's testimony the january 6th committee shared about the unhinged december 18th oval office meeting. >> we were pushing back and we

were asking one simple question, as a general matter, where is the evidence? so -- >> what response did you get when you asked? >> a variety of responses based on a revelation including, you know, i can't believe you would say something -- what do you mean where is the evidence? you should know. things like that or, you know -- a general disregard for the importance of actually backing up what they were saying with facts. >> luke, what other information could cipollone tell the doj at this point? >> well, pat cipollone was in on some of the most significant meetings during donald trump's push to overturn the election. he was there when their there were proposals to seize voting machines. he was there when there were discussions about meddling in the justice department. he was there when there was a

discussion about sending a provably false letter to georgia officials saying that the justice department had found fraud in their elections and asking for it to be overturned. and of course, he was there on january 6th. we heard testimony from cassidy hutchinson and others during the january 6th hearings that he was going in and out of the oval office during discussions about whether mr. trump could try to call off the mob and that he had felt that not enough was being done to call off the mob and he thought more needed to be done. so there's any number of avenues they could ask him about, and we don't know exactly what questions they will ask mr. cipollone or who they're looking at potentially for criminal charges and it could be lower ranking officials or it could be mr. trump himself, but we do know that this investigation is escalating and is getting more serious. >> so, joyce, with cipollone coming more and more in focus, adam kinzinger said he just

hopes pat cipollone tells the truth and that there's no reason to protect criminal behavior with executive privilege. how do you expect this to play itself out? >> doj is in solid legal footing, but that doesn't mean necessarily that it will be instantaneous because while there's d.c. circuit case law that suggests that government employees have an obligation to come forward and share information about criminality, there are legal twists and turns to that argument and including whether or not the supreme court will want to consider the issue itself or whether it will lead the circuit court of appeals in place. so i don't think we're at the point yet where we can load up on popcorn or get ready to listen to pat cipollone testify or at least hear reporting about what he said. i don't think, though, that it's in a future that's too far distant. >> although i could use some popcorn. luke and joyce are sticking around. when we come back, yet another

part of the federal government seems to have also wiped its phones clean, and any messages relevant to january 6th. coincidence or cover-up? there are new calls to try and figure that out. >> tech: cracked windshield? trust safelite. we'll replace your glass and recalibrate your vehicle's camera, so automatic emergency braking and lane departure warning work properly. don't wait--schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ (woman vo) sailing a great river

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bubbles so many bubbles! as an expedia member you earn points on your travels, and that's on top of your airline miles. so you can go and see... or taste or do absolutely nothing with all those bubbles. without ever wondering if you're getting the most out of your trip. because you are. a monster was attacking but the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose. now as the department of defense more text messages sent and received by trump officials around january 6th have been deleted. a purge so outrageous that it

would also be surprising if it wasn't now such a pattern. first, it was the secret service, second, top officials at homeland security. today, "the washington post" reports that the pentagon deleted messages from the senior trump defense department and army officials according to new court records. those officials were in charge of mobilizing the national guard to respond to the capitol attack including then-acting defense secretary chris miller and then army secretary ryan mccarthy. in a court filing from march posted on the website of the watchdog group american oversight, defense department lawyers said government phones are turned in and wiped when an employee leaves the department and the text messages were not preserved, therefore, could not be searched. we are back with luke and joyce. so, joyce, "the washington post" reports that the deletions were standard process and nobody was

trying to hide or conceal anything. that would be a false narrative. what do you think? is this really just standard policy or does this smell a little bit more like a cover-up? >> you know, it's possible that both of those can be true that there are standard policies about record retentions that perhaps they became more of a cover for taking action than they were following standard practice. the problem right now is that we don't know the truth. there is a lot of smoke. it is essential that we come to understand the truth both for the integrity of the investigation, but so people have confidence in their government. i have this need to prevail upon common sense. if you're in the top leadership of any of these agencies and right now the department of defense, you're coming to the end of an administration. you've lived through january

6th. do you, in your exercise of your good wisdom as a public servant, do you say maybe we need to take extra steps to make sure all of these records from this very impactful day are preserved or do you say? no, let's go ahead and destroy everything. we wouldn't want it to come to light. this seems like a very easy answer to me for anyone in leadership of even a small office in government even as a former united states attorney in birmingham, alabama. i know the answer is when something momentous like this has happened you preserve the records because the government is responsible to its citizens for the truth. >> yeah, luke. joyce is making the point that clearly is wrangling a number of members in the political community on the hill and senate judiciary chair dick durbin has asked the attorney general to take over the dhs i.g. and

american oversight asked him to look into the dod texts. so what is the doj's role here and will we hear an update from the january 6th committee about any or all of this? >> well, i know the january 6th committee is very concerned with these missing text messages both from the homeland security department and also from the department of defense, and you're right, just today senator durbin, the number two democrat in the senate has called for the inspector general of the defense department to launch an investigation into the wiping of these phones. i heard from the inspector general's offers in response and they're waiting to hear today from senator durbin and about lou they're going to proceed. this is standard procedure. when an official left government we wiped it and gave it to

somebody else and senator durbin is asking, was that bad faith? was it confidence or was it bad policies and something needs to be addressed here because knowing that january 6th was this momentous day, knowing that these records would be sought by congress, by outside groups, by journalists and others, the defense department should have taken steps, in his view, to preserve these text messages and make sure that none of them were deleted when this wiping occurred and so now we have several branches of government that have missing text messages and missing records from the trump administration and i know there will be efforts to try to recover them, but some may be lost forever and we may never know exactly what was being said during january 6th. >> luke, let me follow up with you on that. you have leon panetta saying on msnbc it's very clearly a conspiracy.

what does the january 6th committee make of this and how do they put this into context for what happened? >> well, publicly, they say they're in a fact-finding mode. they are trying to get to the bottom of what happened, but if you talk to some of the members and members and staff members privately, they will indicate they think there's something fishy going on here. and i believe a couple of those said that publicly as well. there shouldn't be all these missing texts. there's something wrong going on. and then you're seeing the accusations from the chairs of the oversight committee about the inspector general's own oversight of the secret service where they knew about these missing texts for months. they seemed to do nothing about it. they were extremely tardy or lax in their investigation and they department notify congress until half a year after they learned about the missing texts. so there are a the lot of questions to be asked here. and we do know some of the

inspector general employes are being called in to testify about why these texts went missing and why there wasn't more scrutiny from that agecy. >> thank you both for spending time with us this afternoon. up next, a wild day in court for alex jones, caught lying in his trial with sandy hook families. we'll show you that, right after this. k families we'll show you that, right after this those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uhh... here, i'll take that! yay!!! ensure max protein, with 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar enter powered by protein challenge for a chance to win big! ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology

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it has been an extraordinary few days in the defamation trial of alex jones. he was being sued for $151 million by the participants of parents of the sandy hook shooting for claiming it was a hoax was on the stand today and admitted what we all knew all along that sandy hook was real, 100% real, as jones put it today. jones' legal troubles got a whole lot worse when attorneys for the sandy hook parents revealed that jones' lawyers accidentally sent them the contents of his phone by mistake. with texts and e-mails that contradict what jones said on the stand. watch. >> your attorneys messed up and sent me an entire digital copy of your entire cell phone with every text message you have sent for the past two years, ask as of two days ago, it free and

clear into my possession and that's how i know you lied to me. in discovery, you were asked, do you have sandy hook text messages on your phone? you said no. correct? you said that under oath. >> if i was mistaken, i was mistake. you have the messages right there. >> you know what perjury is right? >> all that happened just a day after the judge admonished jones on tuesday for making false statements while under oath. >> you're already under oath to tell the truth. you have already violated that oath twice today in just those two examples it seems absurd to instruct you again that you must tell the truth while you testify, yet here i am. you must tell the truth while you testify. this is not your show. >> yes, i believe what i said

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it's not lost on me i hold the seat that gerald ford held. he committed a cay jous act when he parted richard nixon, but it

ended his political career going forward. obviously, i don't want to follow in the footsteps in the next election, but want to make sure we have leaders in office who are focusing on the fact that we're a nation of laws, not men. and we're putting interests of the country first, rather than their own political careers. it's 5:00 in new york. i'm michael steele in for nicole wallace immediately following his vote to um peach donald trump, congressman peter meyer knew that vote could cost him his future in politics. he even said he might be committing political suicide, he voted to impeach any way because he believed it was the right thing to do. now that grim prediction has come to pass. last night he lost the gop primary race for his house seat to john gibbs, a former administration official who has

repeated the ex-president's lies about a stolen election. as "the new york times" ♪s, there was plenty of drama. he was not only battling the trump-backed gibbs, but the congressional campaign committee, which spent more than $400,000 on advertising meant to lift gibbs in hopes he could be more easily defeated. the democrat in november. last night we also saw trump-backed candidates in another battleground state of arizona take what is looking to be a clean sweep of their primaries. katie hobbs, the democrat running for governor in arizona, discussed the big take away of last night with our friends on "morning joe." >> trump is working to insert himself into all of these elections so that he can install leaders over the rules to change the rules and to oversee certification in future elections so they could potentially overturn the wealth of voters if they don't like the

outcome. >> yet the biggest winner was not a person, but the right to choose. voters in kansas overwhelmingly voted down an effort to get rid of the abortion protections. the vote came down to 60% of voters wanting to keep those protections in the state's constitution. keep in mind, former president trump won kansas by nearly 15 points in 2020. joining us is jonathan lemire. also with us is bbc studio u.s. special correspondent katty cay. matt is back with us. and cornell bullcher, president of brilliant corners research. they are all msnbc contributors and all friends. we're all ready to rock and roll. we'll get to the stonishing win

for abortion rights in a second. first, i want to start with jonathan. ee of the big lie, taking a look at trump's grip on the republican party. what do you make of what we saw coming out of arizona last night? >> that donald trump's grip is still pretty tight. thank you for the kind words. there's been some speculation in recent months that trump was maybe his stature had fallen in the gop. to be fair, his poll numbers have dipped some in response to the january 6th hearings, but he's by far the most powerful force in the party. and the big lie had a big night. those who support his fraudulent claims that the election was conducted unfairly and rigged against him did very well yesterday. in michigan and arizona, he had a number of posts. rusty bowers, who we saw testify for the committee, he didn't just lose, he dplot clobbered. his hand-picked choices for

secretary of state won. senate, won. and he is someone who is certainly in a key battleground state. his influence looms large. democrats will say maybe this isn't a bad thing that republicans have now nominated those who are more to the extreme right of their party. serve on the fringe, maybe they will be easier to beat come november. a that's a risk. these candidates, arizona is a toss-up state. depending what the political environment looks like, they would have a shot to win. if they do win, that's a dangerous thing. these are election deniers. some want to go back and decertify the 2020 election. and at minimum, they would be entrusted to certify the one in 2024 and who could have any faith they would do so properly. >> so jonathan kind of lays out in broad strokes what happened and how this is playing out across the country. give us a sense of what the republicans are doing here and

what the exact of what they are doing here by pushing this big lie. you have these candidates, just a clear sweep of trump-backed candidates winning, all pressing this big lie as a center piece of their campaigns. and the reality is while that's happening, you also have a series of public hearings by the january 6th select committee that's showing in the starkest terms possible that the president is culpable for this insurrection, and yet they keep pushing this narrative. what is going on here? why do they think this is working or is it? >> it's a complicated question. and i think it's not often done. i think donald trump is a vehicle for the big lie. but if you look at recent polling as recent as last month, you had upwards of 70% of

republicans who didn't joe biden was legitimately elected president. you'll remember going back to 2008, a guy by barack obama was elected president. a majority of republicans didn't see him as a legitimate president. this is about something else. donald trump is certainly a vehicle for this, but this is about the changes in america. this is about something bigger and happening with the majority of americans that quite frankly don't look like sort of this traditional america. and so regardless of this donald trump or the next, this ideal that the voters on the left are not legitimate americans are to me the predicate of this and donald trump is certainly a vehicle for this. but i also think when you look at the majority of americans across the country, it does not

position republicans well as a big majority party, because clearly a majority of americans do not see -- a majority of americans voted for barack obama twice. and the president won a resounding majority as well. this is not where the majority of americans are. going into this election cycle, if this is a focal point where democrats can hammer republicans on the big lie, as well as hammer them to the ties of a corrupt president, i think it does not bode well for what should be quite frankly a good election for republicans and is looking less like a republican wave today than four or five months ago. >> i think a lot of folks that i have been talking tos especially see this as republicans yet again eating their young. when you talk about peter meyer's loss last night. he was the only freshman who

voted to impeach donald trump and now he's going to be out of office. what does this signal? do republicans see this as a way to hold their stakes in a swing state like michigan, or are they going to be on the losing end of the november elections because they are putting forth these kinds of candidates that aren't going to win those swing voters? >> i don't think there's a lot of strategic thinking going on in the republican party about any of this. i think what's happened is because of donald trump, the series of other factors, republicans leaders have lost control of the republican base. the republican base is now in charge. as cornell just said, there's a poll out today that says 69% of republicans don't think joe biden was a legitimately elected. that's solidified over time. so i think the frat is in charge of the campus right now.

and the republican leaders know this is a problem. mitch mcconnell knows this is a problem. because as these republicans get nominated, who are weak for the general election, but are strong in the republican primary, and that just happened in michigan in a that house seat. the democrat today has a much higher likelihood of of winning that seat than she would have if peter meyer was in the place. the same is true in arizona. and i think this has been coming to touch on what was just said. this has been coming for awhile. st what's happening now, republicans more, more, more are diving down into this deep well where the republican base is and disconnecting themselves and leaving where the general election is in this. i think that's why i wrote an article three months ago saying my eye on this saying there's a decoupling between joe biden's job approval and the generic ballot. if you looked at joe biden's job approval and predict republicans would be up 7 points on generic

ballot, they aren't. over the course of the last three months, the numbers have improved week to week for the democrats. it's a combination of number of things. the big lie, which has taken over the republican party. so that's part of it. tied to the january 6th commission. it's roe v. wade, which we're going to talk about. which is highly unpopular with the supreme court did. and guns. it's a fundamental freedom and democracy campaign that democrats can run. right now, as i learned yesterday, i learned in the stuff i did in new hampshire, voters are concerned about inflation, but deeper down in them, which is where voters vote from in their guts hearts, they are concerned about our democracy and what this big lie has done to our democracy. >> let's unpack a little bit what we just heard about the impact of all of this.

and take stock of those ten house republicans who voted for impeachment. you have meyer, who joins tom rice in losing the primaries. you have butler and newhouse who are still in tight races, but look like they may hold their party's nomination. dan advanced to the general election in his california race. meanwhile, you have 4 out of the 10 chose to retire rather than run for reelection. then there's liz cheney. her primary is coming up in two weeks. so what do you think happens in wyoming on august 16th? and do you -- how much do you make of what happened to these ten republicans as an impact on what may happen to liz? >> i spent some time in wyoming in june and interviewed people who both supported and didn't

support liz cheney. the consensus there is that, yes, liz cheney will lose, but perhaps not as big a margin as some of the polls suggest. that's probably because democrats can vote in that primary. and i talked to the democrat who is are planning to hold their noses and vote for liz cheney. it's not that they agree on anything. she has a very conservative track record when it comes to her voting record. democrats, it's not willingly they are voting for her. but they are voting for her because she actually does uphold democratic values that they support and they can't count on her opponent, who is trump endorsed. they want to support liz cheney. so i think it seems likely she will lose, but perhaps by a smaller margin than some of the die hard anti-cheney people thinking. i did interview one couple who had the only people i interviewed in the east of the state who had an absolutely huge liz cheney sign in their yard. they had to discuss their own

personal security before they put that sign up. very conservative couple. very religious couple. couldn't have found a more conservative couple, but in the end, they supported liz cheney because she upheld democratic values. look the at the cost to them personally of doing so. they were anxious. they talked about what it might mean for their security, whether they were going to be personally, physically attacked. this is america in 2022. you have to discuss your security before you put up a yard sign. i thought that was really telling of the poitics. but as you suggest, more largely of those republicans who dared to oppose donald trump, least in the primary stage, we're only in the primary stage, as we have been pointing out, it's been tough to hold that position and get republican support. there isn't room at a primary

level for republicans who counted donald trump. >> i want sto switch your attention to what happened in kansas. the remarkable turnout of kansas voters rejecting the amendment that would have stripped abortion protections from the state's constitutions. what do you make of what happened there? what was that energy that had so many voters in a very red state do what they did? >> we have seen the polls when the supreme court decided to overturn roe v. wade that showed this was not where the american public is. that they do not want a constitutional right to an abortion taken away. since the supreme court acted on that in june, we have heard horror stories around the country of young girls who were raped who had to cross state lines because they can no longer get an abortion in their state. women who had a miscarriage and couldn't get a dnc.

so i think the consequences of what the supreme court did have shocked americans even beyond those polls that showed that a majority of americans didn't want the supreme court to do what it did. the mess from kansas was a conservative state to the supreme court you are out of step with the majority of the american public. and i think the message to other republican candidates who are running on a platform of supporting what the supreme court did, on an anti-abortion platform is be careful. this could come back to bite you. i'm thinking of somebody like doug mast ya know in pennsylvania. that's a good sign for the democratic candidate there. he's running to say he will protect pennsylvanians' rights to an abortion.

if we look at kansas as a role model, i imagine the sha camp would be happy with what they saw. >> it was on the mind of chuck schumer today. let's take a listen to what he said on the senate floor. >> last night in the american heartland, the people of kansas sent an unmistakable message to extremists, back off women's fundamental rights. and kansas was just the start. if it's going to happen in kansas, it's going to happen in a whole lot of states. the strong pro choice turnout we saw last night in kansas will continue well into the fall, and republicans who side with these extremist maga policies that attack women's rights do so at their own political risk. >> so cornell, do you agree with schumer there, or are the democrats just kind of doing a little bit of overreach making more of kansas that maybe just

unique to kansas opposed to what we may see nationally. >> michael, you and myself and matt, we're the political campaign hacks here. and we see -- >> you know where i'm going with my question. >> democrats would be out of their minds if they did not make abortion a central argument referendum in this midterm. it's a couple problems. look at the registration that took place in kansas after roe v. wade was overturned. women surged in their registration. and quite frankly, i'm sorry, we don't is a lot of other things that mobilize them. it's not going to be about inflation for these young

voters. democrats will be foolish if they did not make this a referendum on abortion because it does energize and change the dynamics of this. i'm less worried about overreach than democrats not using this. to the point earlier, it's not just the governor's races, but if you look at the battleground congressional races, almost every republican challenger and republican incouple bebt is on the record for supporting the overturn of roe v. wade. and some are going further to talk about contraception. and pound republicans on where they are far out of place with the majority of americans and the majority of women that have awakened because of the overturn. >> let's pick up on cornell's point about the registration.

50% of americans say they prefer versus 43% preferring republicans being in charge. now what's important here that's a 7-point advantage for democrats, which is up from june preponderance. we saw the overturning of roe v. wid, but what do you think is behind this surge? is it sustainable in the fall? how do you read what the polls are starting to tell us. >> so a great question. this is what i think. i took a good look at the poll. that same pollster had republicans up in may by 4 points. now democrats are up by. that's 11-point swing over the course of two months, which usually only happens when you're in the mid-of a major scandal. that's the only thing that happens. as i said before, it's not only

roe, it's january 6th and it's guns. but roe is driving this. you look deeper in the poll and what's motivating, what's happening is democrats now lead republicans on motivation. for all of this year, republicans had the lead on who was most motivated. democrats now lead on the most motivated. registration levels across the country, texas, michigan, pennsylvania, arizona, have all risen starkly over the course of the last 60 days when we have seen this. i agree totally with cornell. it's a gift in a political. it's awful what the supreme court did. but it's a political gift to the democrats and the other thing i want to mention about the poll i find fascinating going to an earlier point is that joe biden's approval rating didn't change between may and july. so his approval rating was just as bad in may. it didn't improve in july.

so it has nothing to do, and this is what i think the democrats need to be smart on, while voters have decoupled, what they are going to vote in congress from joe biden, democrats need to decouple their message pg. they don't need to worry about hawking great things that joe biden has done to try to make joe biden appear better and all of that. they should let that go and just basically say, we're the ones that are going to protect your freedoms. we're the ones that are going to protect your democracy. do not turn over, don't give the keys to these crazy people. that should be the fundamental message they should run on. >> matthew used the word of the day, decoupled, because that's why i believe the democrats have a chance to hold the house in november. i put it on tape. it's out there. you guys are going to blow me up. >> i agree with you. >> thank you. the voters are telling us something that all the smart

pollsters aren't paying attention to. thank you all. when we return, how the rnc is hooking up with the big steal to train election workers in key battleground states. and what could be a precursor to overturning the 2024 election. plus the growing threat of violence against election officials. the senate judiciary committee today tackling how to protect democracy frontline workers. and after days of protesting, expanded health care for veterans exposed to toxic burn pits has passed the senate and is awaiting president biden's signature. deadline white house continueses after a quick break. don't go anywhere. k. don't go anywhere. sometimes i'm a homebody. can never have too many pillows. sometimes i'm all business. wooo! i'm a momma 24/7.

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and right here too. comcast business. powering possibilities. a chilly new report in politico has uncovered an operation spear headed by the republican national committee to have poll workers trained by supporters of donald trump's big lie including the efforts to overturn the 2020 election went so far she's currently under subpoena in a criminal investigation into trump's efforts to steal the 2020 election. from the report, quote, the republican national committee has been relying on a stable of the party's most prolific spreadsers of false stolen-election theories to a sweeping kpegty operation to recruit and coach thousands of poll workers in eight the battleground states, according to new recordings of organizing summits. on the tapes the rnc national director josh finnly repeatedly

characterized the role as supporting in-state coalitions delivering staff, organization and muscle in key states to the person they identify as the quarterback of the effort to create a permanent workforce. conservative elections attorney cleta mitchell, who was a central figure in donald trump's legal strategy to overturn the 2020 election. adding that, quote, publicly, the rnc has insisted its goal is to ensure there are enough trained poll workers to protect the electoral process and ensure partisan parody at polling centers. the recordings indicated that the rnc is relying heavily on people who have spread false or unproven claims of irregularities and conspiracies. joining our conversation the author of that piece, washington reporter, and matt and cornell are also back with us. heidi, let's begin with you. take us through your incredible

reporting and the dangers that our country is now facing. >> thank you. i have been chroniclely these summits n which the rnc is trying to recruit and coach poll workers. they consider it, according to this now batch of recordings, which is a number of summits that took place over last spring, we learned a number of very important things about this operation. number one, it is the rnc's number one goal going into the next election. number two, they are relying on cleta mitchell, who was a pivotal figure in trying to overturn the last election. and number three, we have her speaking pretty openly about what some of the real goals are of this operation. she didn't talk about for instance, which is something we have been told was the major concern going into these operations. she spoke more openly about the need to conquer this growing coalition of young people, people of color and unmarried women. let me unpack it more and tell you why that's important.

number one, the rnc has really tried to distance itself, as you know, from the big lie and from the conspiraies that said that the president trump had the election stolen from him. you'll never hear the rnc drrkt openly say that, but here you have them behind the scenes, according to josh finally, talking about how cleta is the best elections attorney out there. they are not going to tell her what to do. they are part of the coalition. they are going to be the muscle and deliver her the people for this operation. secondly, again, on that fraud issue, that is the premise that we have been told all along was the reason why the rnc needs to do this. there was fraud in the last election. yet she goes on really extensively in this april summit talking about how the democrats want to build a new american majority by praying on what she

calls the most vulnerable, which are students, elderly people, which are minorities, people who maybe coming to the government for assistance, and when i reached out to her, her explanation for this was she said that there was an executive order by president biden to try to have agencies help people to register to vote when they want to. that's to using federal taxpayer dollars to pressure people to vote for democrats. i looked over that executive order. there's nothing in it that directs federal resources to democratic groups that pressure people to vote for democrats. it's simply helping people exercise their right to register and to vote without any kind of partisan attachments to it. >> here's more from heidi's very insightful reporting. republicans have said the aim of the election spegty effort is to ensure there are well-trained

poll workers during the next election. the recordings also feature mitchell speaking openly about the need to challenge efforts by nonprofit groups aligned with democrats to create a new american majority of young voters, people of color and unmarried women. it's placed a as a great target of opportunity and we have to make sure that doesn't happen. referring to democratic efforts to register voters from traditionally underrepresented voting blocs. so it's out there. black and white. talk to us about the effort to stop voters from participating. voters that republicans have deemed they don't like, they don't want to see registered. they don't want to see in this process. >> great reporting, heidi. it is shocking. but let's not disconnect this from the conversation we were having earlier about biden and

obama not being legitimate. and their coalition not being legitimate. that's within this continuum. why do we need muscle at polls? you're not supposed to be doing election nearing at polls. this wreaks jim crowism. this reeks of intimidation tactics. ask i'm going to go on a limb here. i have a pretty good idea of where this muscle is going to be showing up at the polls. it's going to be in places where democrats are. it's going to be places where minority voters are. these sort of intimidation tactics we have seen an ugly history in this country and quite frankly, it's dangerous. it is absolutely dangerous. if you think you're going to show up in these polling places where young people and people of color participate and intimidate them in 2022, this is not 1962

anymore. this is not going to happen. what you're playing with is violence. what you're playing with is absolute fire. and last point on this. once upon a time, when you were chairman of the rnc, i remember there being a conversation about republicans try to reach out to minorities. how about opposed to trying to stop from voting and intimidating him, how about we try to get some policy solutions and ideals to actually try to bring them into the republican party. >> i gave that speech at the naacp at the national convention. i made that point. and i also want to clarify. we understand exactly what the nub of the reporting goes to. a poll worker is someone that's paid by the county or state that has direct access to ballots. poll watchers are the political piece. what the rnc is doing is taking traditionally poll watchers, folks in the room to make sure

ballots go in the right box and training them so they can actually access the ballots. have touch of those ballots. that's where this problem really becomes ugly. matthew, to you, you have been in new hampshire reporting on how the big lie has taken hold there. what are election officials doing to respond? what can they do if the poll workers who should be poll watchers, but are poll workers here become part of that problem? >> so in most states, the secretary of state is rational. even as republicans as we learned in georgia, in new hampshire the secretary of state is a republican who has already held six meetings to try to dismiss the lies and the conspiracy theories with voters there. new hampshire has always held safe, secure elections, but the lie has taken hold in new hampshire. so he has to do full well, is

going out of her way. and i think the other thing is there was a testimony before the senate judiciary committee where secretary of state came up all of this not only trying to keep people from voting because i think for some reason republicans at some point decided they can't win popular votes. they can't win if everybody votes. their goal is to keep certain people from voting. it's pretty clear that's what their goal is in the course of this because they think they have come to the conclusion of that. is that there's a straight line between the big lie, these conspiracy theories and this intimidation to violence. and what was testified today by secretaies of state and election workers is the threat of violence is real. it's making harder to recruit people to work at the polls. it's making harder for the people that stand up for integrity and do this. and it's the big lie that led

directly to the violence at the capitol. so this is not just some theoretical political argument. all of the stuff they are doing from lyin conspiracy theories to voter intimidation leads directly to this rising tide of violence affecting our election workers. when you can't conduct an election, you don't have a democracy anymore. >> they call it voter integrity. >> can just clarify something? all these individuals also have to go through training by the local election clerks. they are also getting this outside coaching from the rnc as well as a host of other groups, including one i listened to on sunday night that people should call 911 if they had problems. there's a lot of potential there for chaos. but the rnc makes clear these individuals also are to go through this other trabing. they are just coaching them on the side on how to contest votes. >> that is a problem because they are paid state workers. those are paid individuals.

and the parties have typically and traditionally stayed away from that. poll watchers, those are your folks. poll workers, you recommend them and they are scrutinized by the board. now the rnc is saying in addition to what they are tell ing you, we want you to know and be able to do this. thank you all very much. really appreciate it. ahead for us, matt just referenced it. how congress is looking to protect election workers as threats against them increase. back with that, after a quick break. r a quick break. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business...

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today on capitol hill senators are hearing testimony about the wave of threats against election workers that spawned in the wake of former president's big lie. we're following his 2020 election loss. the department of justice set up a task force to track threats reviewing over 1,000 messages and federal prosecutors have already charged five people with more charges expected. according to the doj, 58% of the total of potential criminal threats were from states that partook in recounts and audit such as arizona, georgia, colorado, pennsylvania, and michigan. one of the witnesses today at the hearing was a friend of the show, secretary of state jocelyn benson, who told the committee about the threats she's faced in her state.

>> one night in december 2020, i was about to put my son to bed when dozens of individuals descended upon our home. growing in numbers over the course of an hour, they stood outside my front door waking my neighbors, shouting obscenities and graphic threats and into bull horns. to this day, these images of that evening still haunt me. not long ago, my son standing in our driveway picked up a stick, turned to me and said, don't worry, mom, if the bad guys come again, i'll get them with this. he's 6 years old. >> joining us now is colorado secretary of state and the chair of the democratic association of secretaries of state. welcome, madame secretary. i know you have been the subject of some of these threats in your state of colorado. what's your reaction to all of this, in particular your

experience being threatened? >> thanks for having me on. i think you can hear from secretary benson's voice the extreme amount of stress and emotion behind these threats. predominantly women, younger democrats have been on the receiving end of thousands of threats since the 2020 election. in my case, i received messages such as what's the size of your neck, i'm going to hang you from a tree. i'm going to get the rope to hang you. over and over and over and over. the threats to be very clear, they are against secretary benson, they are against me, they are against katie hobbs, but they are against us as secretaries of state. these threats are used as part of the attack on democracy to try to intimidate us. but we will not stop. we will not stop. it reaffirms our work to protect democracy going into 2022 and the 2024 presidential election.

>> so the doj said in their report that these threats came mainly from states that were battleground states that had audit or recounts stemming from the baseless claims of a stolen election. so in georgia, an alleged oath keeper who was charged with seditious conspiracy in georgia had a death list, according to authorities, that included the name of an election official and their family. what's your reaction to hearing about this? and having had similar experiences, what's the reaction among your community of secretary of states, election officials to deal with these kinds of threats. >> it has brought secretaries of state very close to one another because we have gone through this experience that most of us couldn't imagine in the united states just a couple years ago. but my major reaction to the fact that election deniers,

people trying to destroy democracy have kill lists, death lists, is that state and local government needs to take this very seriously. at this point, the doj elections task force on election crimes has prosecuted five or six threats against election officials, one including threats against myself, but we need to see prosecutions. we also have to see state government take this seriously. that's why this last legislative session, i ran a bill making it a crime to retaliate against election workers. i also had to run a piece of legislation so that i could get normalized state patrol coverage myself. >> secretaries like yourself are going to be in an interesting space this time next year. certainly, going into the next election cycle. if some of the folks on the ballot who are election deniers running for secretaries of states and other election

officials win, how do you process that? the doj has said they intend to charge more people in regards to threats. but what else can congress do, and how do you deal with someone who is holding an official office but they are not out there with the bull horn, but they are still a threat to democracy. >> we have to strengthen laws. so for example, in colorado i passed the first law to make it a felony where there's an insideer threat. when an election official tries to destroy from within. we have to strength state laws. we have to strengthen federal laws. we have to see prosecutions. but frankly, we have to beat them at the ballot box. there are election deniers running for secretary of state across this nation. what we can expect from them is to suppress the vote, further destabilize elections and lie to decrease confidence in the electoral process. they are a risk to american democracy and americans are

going to have a heavy task come here in a couple of 98 days i think we're out from election day to save american democracy. that's what it's at stake in the elections. and i am so optimistic americans are going to save the future of our country. >> colorado secretary of state, thank you for spending some time with us this afternoon. really appreciate it. when we return, a big victory for america's veterans in their fight against senators who tried to block expanding their health care. we'll get into that, right after this. we'll get into that, right after this

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i will say this. i'm not sure i've ever seen this situation. where people who have already given so much had to fight so hard to get so little. and i hope we learned a lesson. >> that was comedian and activist jon stewart yesterday after the bill he raised so much awareness for finally passed the senate. the pact act, the $280 billion package that will provide healthcare to veterans exposed to toxic burn pits will now head to president biden's desk.

that vote coming days after unrelenting pressure from stewart and more than 60 veterans groups who shamed republicans for days on end on the capitol steps after they pulled their support of the initial bill. the white house says president biden will sign the bill into law on monday. let's bring in paul, president of the righteous media, host of independent americans podcast and founder of iraq and afghanistan veterans of america. paul, welcome. you were part of this fight. you were in it. what are you feeling today now that this bill was passed and the effort is over? >> victory and relief. this has been decades in the making and today we got good news out of washington. you don't usually get much good news out of washington, but today, the good guys and gals one. the bad guys and obstructionists

and jerks lost. they say hope is the oxygen of democracy. this should give everyone hope. this was bipartisan. it was inspiring. tons of people deserve credit. this is why some of the people want jon stewart to run for president. this is the opposite of what we saw in january 6th. it was really authentic. it was pure. it was legal. and this really should give folks some hope and optimism about what is possible if we unite and we focus. it was not without obstruction. there were 11 senators who voted no and we want to make them famous and make sure they never say again that they stand with the troops. this is a good day for america had a good day for democracy. >> certainly, the president was very excited about this. president biden called this bill a lifeline to families who had lost a loved one from toxic exposure. explained to us how important

this bill is for veterans and their families. i don't think a lot of people really appreciate what those veterans went through and what they were exposed to. help us understand better. >> there are veterans right now who have cancer who were exposed to toxins either after 9/11 and places like iraq and afghanistan war in vietnam. they are right now fighting cancer. they are right now on ventilators and oxygen tanks. they woke up to hear that help is on the way. reinforcements are coming. the va, to their credit, had a website up within hours. there is a feeling in the community that we will get the support we need for relief for families like mine. if one day, i get sick, my kids won't have to figure out how to take care of me. there will be government healthcare provided in response to my service. a tremendous feeling of relief and optimism. i also think focusing and recognizing that we've lost many of our friends. this is for -- this is for

steve robinson and so many other activists whose names america will never know. this is for our friends who have died. those who are sick. and those who will unfortunately get sick in the days to come. >> paul rieckhoff. thank you. don't miss his podcast, independent americans. his latest guest is senator john chester, chair of the veterans committee. a quick break for us. we will be right back after this. this. or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. i grew up an athlete, i rode horses... i really do take care of myself. i try to stay in shape. that's really important, especially as you age.

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confirmation of the first black four-star general in the marines, lieutenant general michael langley has been a marine for 37 years. tours of duty in japan, afghanistan, and somalia. he is now set to oversee 6000 marines as the new head of u.s. africa command. he will attain his new rank at a ceremony in washington this weekend. thank you for being with us this wednesday. the beat, with ari melber. starts right now. hey! >> hey, michael, we know each other. i know you know my name. that happens to me too. on the screen, we have something that on any other newsday, we would get into. but it's too busy. i can't get into it. good to see you. >> that's why i did the name thing. i got something for you. just keep it clean, jellybean. later. >> i'll see