and dug in here heels. they wanted to make sure that the line of communication was open between washington and beijing. it is a delicate moment for the administration as they work on the china policy. there are a dozen questions in the air when they may roll back some tariffs or if they won't. what you have is china today with live military drills. you have them putting out flags to airline carriers that there are danger zones to fly over. and you have some sanctions from china to taiwan. i think the administration was trying to deal with this a lot of back and forth. >> thank you very much for being with us today. and thank you for getting up way too early with us on this

thursday morning. morning joe starts right now. it was just released that the pentagon deleted all messages from the january 6th. then they hear hillary clinton, well, well, well. we look at the missing january 6th text messages. the questions all over washington this morning with multiple government agencies now involved. has a massive coverup been exposed. and former dhs secretary, jay johnson is standing by. a federal grand jury asked former aide what it means for donald trump. and poland say that democrats continue to make gains as the

republicans fly with them wanting to control congress. fallout from kansas and arizona. a lot more than that. we have and overall look of trump's record in the primary races, which is very strong. c pack kicks off today with a controversial guest. we'll get to that. >> let's start with the number two democrat in the senate now calling on the department of defense so open an internal investigation from key officials. he asked the inspector general to launch a probe into at the time deleted communications of several officials that were task deploying the national guard during the capitol attack. they say this could jeopardize the effort to learn the full

truth of january 6th. they say we must get to the bottom of it. that is from dick durman. the defense and army second were wiped in the aftermath of the insurrection. the pentagon claims it was a standard operation procedure for the party. but that comes weeks revealed that secret service had their messages from january 6th erased despite orders from congress to preserved the communications. former cia director leon panetta was asked about the texts being wiped from the government phones. this is what he had to say to andrea mitchell. >> this is a major concern that

officials out of the trump administration were taking steps that make sure that potential evidence involved in the january 6th would not be there. i think the department of defense has to investigate. there is no question this was done in a manner that bureaucracy was doing what bureaucracies do. it was very important evidence what the players were doing at the pentagon and the secret service and elsewhere were staying and doing on january 6th, all of which is really relevant to the investigation as to what happened. >> you're saying this is a coverup? >> i don't think there is any question when you go from agency to agency and find out

that key messages have been deleted, something is going on here that resembles a conspiracy. the host of way too early and the best selling author of the big lie, jonathan ma leer. mr. secretary, let me begin with you and let me see if you degree with leon panetta. they say that the policy was the departing employees that the phones were wiped clean. but when you go through the secret service and the department of defense and officials at this level of those organizations in and around a critical day, does it pass the smell test for you

that this was just bureaucratic? >> it does smell. it is problematic. before i was secretary of homeland security, i was general counsel of the department of defense when leon panetta was secretary of defense. i can safely say that if i had been secretary of homeland security in january of 2021 and some chief information officer came to me with a plan to wipe clean the texts or e-mails of our personnel on their phones as they were leaving office, i'd say, no, you don't. there is the federal records act. that requires that we maintain things that are generated in the course of the government business. there is the freedom of information act, which we such text are subject to requests from the public. so i don't have a good explanation for why this information was wiped just as

the trump administration was leaving office. i do want to say this, however, about the secret service, because i was their oversight for three years and a protecter of the secret service. for as long as i know the secret service, they are good at the big stuff, including protesting 160 people of the general assembly, including the pope in 2016. but the things that keep showing up in the "washington post" stories, they have never been good at. january 2021 was a moment for the secret service of high anxiety. the nation was on high alert in the midst of a presidential election and an outgoing president that was unhinged. i'm not surprised that the people that protect us did not

get the data exactly right. i think there needs to be an inspector general investigation in my judge. >> that is my next question, mr. secretary. what is the trail to figure out what happened here. is it possible they are vapor and the text just randomly disappeared. might there have been a directive to wipe the phones off january 6th that could be tracked down? >> i think that is possible. again, when you are dealing with lying agents task to protect the president and the family of the president, there may be a title there. but if there was a senior directive to wipe clean things around january 6th, that a different matter. and we need an ig that we can

trust to do a comprehensive investigation of this. >> congratulations, the big lie, number 4 on the "new york times" best seller list. the trump big lie. congratulations. >> thank you. i appreciate that. mr. secretary, returning to the matter at hand, so what should have happened here? let's set aside the agents with the questions about what may have happened. every time i talked about this story with someone, the question is there not a backup or a cloud. are she's not saved somewhere? >> when you're dealing with political employees to walk out the door, you are given a

document that i'm preserving all my communications, e-mails, texts. i'm not taking anything with me. sign here. it is something along those lines, like a standard practice like when you leave a law firm like mine. so i don't have a good explanation why that didn't happen, why people exiting the doors were not required to certify that they were not wiping clean things that may be pieces of evidence that might be subject to the federal records act. there has a rising tide of the awareness as the technology has evolved. texts are becoming much more prominent by way of government communications. but we're clearly at a point and we were at a point in january of 2021 when a very basic commence move for people that were government services, you have to preserve things

that are subject to the federal records act without a doubt, especially if there is an investigation around january 6th. >> there is not a cloud for the federal government? >> very often there is. you know things are backed up. every time i get a new iphone, for example, somebody comes in and takes my iphone away from me, preserves it all to make sure that it is goes to my next phone, most notably my 15-year- old itune collection and photographs and everything else. you would think that the answer to that is yes. i think it deserves a comprehensive explanation. >> it just defies logic. i want to ask you a legal question about the next story that we're reporting. a development in the justice's probe of the january sixth attack on the capitol.

a federal grand jury subpoenaed former counsel patrick -- as part of the investigation. this is a larger look at efforts to overturn the 2020 election. so what more can you tell us about what this means overall and what they can offer? >> sure. it is is not just him that received a subpoena recently. the public not heard from pat tillman. but these are the top two lawyers in the trump white house. and they have access to all sorts of information of interest to the federal prosecutors, including efforts of a report and the electors

and the efforts to seize the voting machines. because of the senate's fake letter to georgia saying there was wide fraud in the election, when there was no such fraud found, we don't know precisely that they want to ask them about. but we know they have access the inner most workers of the trump white house as the former president was trying to overturn at the time election. so i think this is a signal that the justice department investigation is escalating and getting much more serious. >> and he is a central figure. he was there in the white house. we heard that from kathy hutchinson in her testimony in front of the grand jury. you're reporting that two arizona republican officials that helped to try to overturn the 2020 election were worried

that their actions could appear, quote, treasonnist. they were both expressed concern to mr. trump's lawyers in december 2020 about participating to a plan claiming that president trump won arizona even though president biden won that state. to other members of the legal team, they worried about concernses of casting votes of alternate slate of electors because there was no pending legal challenge that could split the election. ward and towson are concerned it could appear treasonnist if treasonnist. the word treasonnist was bolded in the e-mail. according to the reporting, the

use of the word underscored how well aware that some of mr. trump's allies were risking to keep him in office but worried about being seen as betraying their country. the people that were participating in this new that mr. trump had lost and two, that they were doing something illegal. >> we were able to review some of the eternal e-mails from the donald trump campaign. the word is not surprised. but it underscores just how aware some of the people involved in this scheme were about how it was not going well outside. for them to say that the

members that were signing on to the slates could be seen as treason was stunning to me, that they would put that in writing that they were that aware of what they were doing and outside it could norm it could be. they admitted that the plan was data collectors. they knew it was not alternative strategy in which there were legitimate questions of fraud and maybe the election was in doubt. they knew exactly what they were doing. and the people signed on to the electors and put forward the legal arguments and signed the false documents in congress. and so i would think as the justice department is moving forward with the investigation that the house committee is moving forward, it will be documented every piece of evidence that shows that the trump campaign knew what they

were doing was wrong and they were not just disagreeing over the law. >> they were doing it for one person. thank you very much for your reporting. jay johnson, i want to ask you something. you have so many different probes and investigations and hearings going on that all seem to be swirling around donald trump, swirling around him and hitting people around him, and opening up huge questions about what they were doing and why they were doing it and why they were hiding text messages and why they were pushing fake electors and why they were calling for mike pence to be hanged and it goes all the way down to the insurrection itself and insurrectionist being charged and put in jail up to 7 years, and yet it still doesn't feel like any of this is

touching the man that inspired it all. am i correct? legally? >> legally, it seems to me, everything i know publicly and most notably on the january 6th hearings that donald trump personally is well within what an aggressive federal prosecutor would be willing to take on in in terms of a prosecution. if is the a conspiracy or violation of the insurrection act. january 6th, the definition of an insurrection. and the insurrection statute punishes those that incite the insurrection and those that give aid and comfort thereto. there are various theories of fraud swirling around, fraud on those that contributed to overturn the election when everyone knew it was a fake

effort. so i think at this point, he's within the realm of potential liability here and the department of justice a bit is scrambling a bit after the january 6th hearings were such high profile and choreographed effectively. this story is not done yet. and i suspect that evidence will get closer and closer to donald trump as things progress. and if some reason he is not indicted, i think this department of justice will have to have a good explanation as to why that is the case. >> still ahead on morning joe, the republican primary race for arizona governor is still too close to call. but that is not stopping wade that she won. she is saying election fraud

but has yet to supply any proof. a speaker's comment were called clear nazi. gas problems have fallen for the fifth day in a row. the transportation secretary will be here to weigh in on that, if they will go down more. >> congresswoman watson is here and sponsored the healthcare bill that is headed to the president's desk. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. u're watch. we'll be right back. republicans in congress call them "entitlements." a "ponzi scheme." the women and men i served with in combat, we earned our benefits. just like people earned their social security and medicare benefits. but republicans in congress have a plan to end so-called "entitlements" in just five years. social security, medicare, even veterans benefits. go online and read the republican plan for yourself.

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one senator casting a vote against ratification so people will talk about him. all 30 nato countries are required to ratify finland and sweden's applications before they can become members. it will head to the president's desk and then it will go to the secretary's desk. we've a lot to talk about this

morning. let's start with the nato ratification of sweden and finland. how does this change our potential security interest moving forward, especially given the war in ukraine? >> i think it is a major rebuke against putin and countries would not hang together and would not push back on him and it boomeranged. this does not do putin anymore favors to have no nato allies on the borders. but i think it is something that many of us have hoped for a long time. and putin made it possible. it is great. >> we have so much to ask you about. we want to ask you something about that we were talking about, the report of all the deleted task messages from the department of defense. we heard it from the secret

service and the department of homeland security. you understand when it is like to give up your phone at the end of a tenure. do you believe this is possible just bureaucracy? that the employees had their phones taken away and the text messages going on or do you believe something else is going on? >> i don't think myself or anyone else really knows. i was required to hand over my government phone, like everyone else. i don't know what the thinking was. there are tech people just doing their jobs. if there was a request into a poll. and we have a problem. and the leadership folks should be asked to come in and speak to the issues.

i would love to talk to the former secretary of defense and say what was the guidance that you gave as the senior most person in the pentagon. but it doesn't smell good. that is for sure. >> and this is not routine transition given everything that happened around the transition of january 6th into the 20th. i want to ask you about the pact act. you were part of the veteran health care package that was held up for some time by the republicans in the senate. you were giving a voice in the last year and jon stewart came in and helped get this done. were you surprised the way some republicans switched the votes and did, in fact, stand in the way, number one? and number two, lost in this process conversation what does the bill actually does? what will it provide for the veterans that need it so badly? >> what it does is take the

agent orange of the 9/11 generation, the burn pit that everyone lived near a combat zone. and all of our veterans that served in places like afghanistan, iraq, somalia, syria, they lived near the burn pits. surprise, surprise. our veterans are showing up with weird cancers that is unusual. and they say if you served near a burn pit, we have an assumption that you were exposed to carcinogens. you should not have to fight for that when you walked into a va. we think 3.5 million veterans will qualify for va care now.

it was outrageous that the 25 republican senators were cowards and switched the votes. they had been voting for it i was in the senate chamber when they passed it the first time. and for parole reasons, just to stick it to the democrats, they switched the vote on the exact same bill. i don't usually get off by this kind of stuff. but this one gets me. it was a stunt. they felt embarrassed enough to bring it back the next week. >> in afghanistan, the taliban leaders are said to be holding discussions to respond to the u.s. drone strike that killed al qaeda leader ayman al- zawahiri. they say that high level meetings have been going on for two days now. so the leader said they are deciding whether to react the attack and if they do, how to go about it.

they did not confirm if al qaeda leader ayman al-zawahiri was in the house when the missile struck. he was killed over the weekend in a cia drone strike while standing on the balcony at his downtown apartment. he assumed leadership of al qaeda when the u.s. killed osama bin laden a decade ago. it is a win on one front. but also is may have left this relationship, or lack thereof, with the taliban. what do you suggest that the administration move forward as we wait for a response? >> number two of al-qaeda that helped pull off the 9/11 attack and so much else in the last 20

years. he was enjoying himself in a nice neighborhood in kabul. you cannot tell me that they did not know that and they were not aware that he was enjoying the nicer life. so. i don't care what they say. they have been trying to tell the world that they are a credible government and they deserve access to money. and they should control the food aid that the world is providing them. and i think it shows they don't deserve that respect and don't be treated like a normal government. taking out one man does not take out al qaeda. but i think it send an important signal to everyone in the world, if you attack us on american soil. it may take a minute, but we're coming after you. and it showed something that i was sceptical off. that we can actually full offer these over the horizon strikes

in afghanistan even though we don't have a presence there. no one likes how we left afghanistan. no one is proud of those videos that we watched. a lot of us on the armed services committee are wondering can we pull off these strikes without a heavy military presence on the ground? but i think we showed we can do and can do it with great precision. >> more than a decade later and al qaeda's number two is brought to justice by the united states government what is your reaction to that? what does it mean? >> one of the things that impresses me the most is the precision of our weaponry has evolved and improved just over the last ten years since i was general counsel of doj.

to take him out on his balcony, kill him and leave the building erect without another person killed, even though his family was probably sleeping a few feet away, is remarkable. and the message that comes from us to all terrorist leaders, it may take 20 days, 20 years, you can run, but you cannot hide from us. we'll find you sooner or later. thisthis shows our skills of our team and capabilities. >> new polling shows momentum for democrats ahead of november's mid-term elections. and the latest pole, 50% of adults said they prefer the

democrat candidate compared to the 43% for the republican. these come as president biden's number remain under water. in the latest poll, just 38% of respondents said they approve of biden's job performance. what do you think is going on here when you get that generic ballot number? let's bring to your state of michigan where you are running for re-election this fall. curious to your take broadly. you had some pushing into the general election in the fall. >> we just had our primary this week. i think it restores faith, i think for a lot of people to say that the average person, certainly in michigan and in the country, just wants our government to function. they don't want extreme on either side and don't want people denied the election and living in the past and to have

practical real live views in the world. for many people they're looking at their choices. i think there is a lot of stress coming out of covid and a lot of concern about the price of gas and inflation and all of those things, people don't want extreme people running their government. i think that is important. i think with the reversal on row, there was just a lot of people that i think thought, in this country, we get more and more and more rights over time. it may take us time and may be two steps forward and one step back, but the trajectory is right. when they saw us go backwards, it was a shock to the system. these things are not automatically there. i think michigan is a snap back state. we have a 1930 law that bans abortion outright. that will change the topic. i've had more republican women come up to me in the past three week than in the proceeding four years just talking about

the concern that they would never choose to have an abortion, but they don't walk in other women's shoes. >> congresswoman, i have a question and putting you on the spot a little bit. i was very taken by a debate, part of a debate between members of congress running for re-election. they were asked pretty simple questions. and given the discussion that you had about roe v. wade and women's rights. president biden speaks eloquent about this issue and a number of other issues that you would think that the democratic party would be proud of his accomplishment and on the world stage, given the potential world war that he has kept at bay. i'm saying that sort of advocating. do you think president biden should be running for re- election? is that even a question in your

mind? >> look. it is a question that people are debating. i have no special insight what the president is deciding with his family and advisers. >> i was not asking if you know what their families are deciding. i was just surprised that two people of his party could not answer the question. >> if he want to run again, run again. i don't think that is a hard debate. in general, i think there is a lot of us that want to see new voices rise in the party. that is not just the presidency. that is the house and the senate, all over the place when it comes to the party. that is not a secret.

we need more voices, more diverse voices. so there is a lot of us feel strongly about that. if a sitting president decides to run again, the party supports it. >> thank you very much. coming up, a concerning sign for the state of the republican party. a major conservative conference embraces a hard line nationalist. we have more of his upcoming speech in dallas and why is he the speaker. and more demands on democrat kirsten cinema as they work to pass a major bill on climate and taxes. pass a majorn climate and taxes. . just like we will. join the fight at alz.org/walk

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flags at the white house

and the u.s. capitol in memory of congresswoman jackie walorki. she was killed in a car accident in indiana along with her two staffers, zachary pots and emma thompson. the driver and occupant of the other vehicle also died. she served in congress since 2013 and the top republican on the house ethic committee. kevin mccarthy released a statement, saying this news is absolutely devastating. she was a dear friend and em bodiment of integrity. >> president biden released a statement, jill and i are shocked and saddened by the death of jackie.

and we send our deepest condolence to her husband dean and the people of indiana and the secretary district who is one of their own. >> her name may not be familiar to every one of our viewers, but the outpouring of shock, it shows what an impact she had on washington. a terribly sad news. in a show of force, china has begun drills in retaliation for nancy pilosi's visit to thailand. long range precision strikes are being contacted in taiwan's airspace. taiwan officials said that the exercises views light the united nations rules and amount

to a blockade of the sea and airspace. nancy pilosi left taiwan yesterday after committing to iron clad u.s. support for the nation is in south korea today as part of other high profile asia tour. american basketball star brittney griner is expected to be in court today for the closing arguments in her trial in russia. her sentence could be up to ten years in prison. the united states officials said that griner and another official are being held illegal in the country, paul we'll paul wheelland are being held. they said they cannot consider a prisoner swap till the trial is

finished. the transportation department are looking at stricter rules for airlines when making changes. and we'll look at the potential impact on air travel. the big mistake made by the legal team representing conspiracy theorist alex jones. this is a big one. we'll explain to you. morning joe will be right back. . morning joe will be right back.

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reporter: alex jones had a stunning admission during the contentions. he finally conceded that the sandy hook school shooting did happen. after years of insisting on his infowars show that the massacre was a hoax. hispanic how can you believe any of it? >> it is 100% real. the media still ran with lies. >> reporter: the parents of jesse lewis, one of the kids that of the masker, are seeking $150 million in damages. >> we want to restore his honor, and the legacy of my son. it was tarnished by mr. jones. >> reporter: he blasted his father on his show. he is being manipulated by very bad people. i will say it because i to be honest, he is slow. mack in court, he faced jesse's mother. >> jesse was real, and i am a

real mom. >> reporter: they testified that their pain was real. the conspiracy theorist has been a difficult witness. >> you must tell the truth while you testify. this is not your show. do you understand what i have said? do you understand what i have said? >> yes. you believe everything you say is true, but it hasn't. your beliefs do not make something true. that is what we are doing here.>> reporter: admonished for the judge for lying on the stand. >> you are already under oath to tell the truth, you have already violated that oath, twice today.>> reporter: he was caught in another lie by the plaintiff's attorney. >> your attorneys messed up. they sent an entire digital copy of your entire cell phone, with every text message you have sent for the last 2 years. >> reporter: there are text messages about sandy hook that jones failed to share, as ordered by the court.

to make that is how i know you lied to me, when you said you did not have text messages about sandy hook. did you know that? in discovery, do you have sandy hook text messages on your phone, and you said no, correct? you said that under oath. the neck i was mistaken. >> reporter: the jury will determine, what, if anything, jones must pay. coming up, in the 2020 election, donald trump lost wisconsin by about 20,000 votes. apparently, he is still upset about it. we will look at his new effort to unseat the top republican that refused to decertify wisconsin's election results. on the heels of the aborting rights, democrats are voicing optimism about the out november midterms. what the party leaders are saying about kansas as a

bellwether? morning joe is coming right back. back. another busy day? of course it is. you're a cio in 2022. but you're covered. with security that protects your company everywhere, on-premise... in the cloud... and right here too. comcast business. powering possibilities. republicans in congress call them "entitlements." a "ponzi scheme." the women and men i served with in combat, we earned our benefits. just like people earned their social security and medicare benefits. but republicans in congress have a plan to end so-called "entitlements" in just five years. social security, medicare, even veterans benefits. go online and read the republican plan for yourself. joe biden is fighting to protect social security, medicare and veterans benefits. call joe biden and tell him to keep fighting for our benefits.

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it is just before the top of the hour. it is almost 7:00 on the east coast. we have a live look at new york city. it is thursday, august 4. deleted government text messages from around the time of january 6, during the insurrection, looking more and more like a massive cover-up. what are the latest efforts to get to the bottom at at least three government agencies? the latest in the fight for abortion rights after a huge victory in kansas. the republican primary race for arizona governor is

undecided. he has been alienated by much of europe, why are conservatives, or so-called conservatives in the u.s. embracing the far right prime minister of hungary? we have a conference kicking off in dallas . jonathan is with us. we have our msnbc contributor, and our bbc correspondent. we also have charlie sykes joining us now. tuesday's elections are still not in the books. >> we are still talking about arizona and the race for the nomination of governor remains too close to call. that is well over 24 hours after the polls closed. it did not stop carrie lake from declaring victory

yesterday. they pressed rubber claims of voter fraud and why she is claiming victory before official results have been announced. >> why essays press conference premature? >> what you mean, premature? >> nothing has been finalized right now. >> we know the outcome is. we won. to make use of the election was messed up. why should voters trust that you won fair and square? >> we have a lot of evidence of irregularities and problems, we will address those. spinnaker will not release it to the fake news. >> i don't want to release the two of brunch of people that don't believe there was fraud when there was clearly fraud. they declined to expand on the claims of voter fraud. they said the campaign is

moving on. she built yourself into a box. she says there will be brought in the election, she was paving the way, in case she lost. now it appears she has won, she is still saying the election was messed up. but she believes she won, which calls into question her own election. the secretary of state said the same thing after he won more clearly. he said there were irregularities in the election. spinnaker did the past donald trump's big lie, it is something that is a metastasizing cancer on democracy. the candidates are routinely going to question the legitimacy of elections, including elections down ballot. i thought it was interesting that the media asked her, okay, how do you know you won if you say the election, if it was right, where there was fraud? i think, when you see the number of election denies that

her when he across the country, this will be the new abnormal. you will see more and more candidates just throw out, completely baseless charges about the election. you know, over time, that will have a corrosive effect on the public's confidence in elections. strap in. everything we have experienced over the last several years is going to continue. and it may get worse with people like kari lake in the spotlight. >> this is a preview of coming attractions. this will deliver the fall landscape. my question to you is not a question, i like you to tell us what you think and feel about the following. you can feel and hear the foundations of the electoral system, the basic way of running the government, free elections, you can hear the bolts and screws popping loose with like this.

they are announcing victory before the votes have been counted, implying fake news and rigged elections. the cpac convention is beginning in dallas. one of the roots of this? when did this really begin in your mind? did it begin with newt gingrich turning everybody against each other? did it begin with donald trump? it cannot have just begun with donald trump. when did this begin? why is it growing so rapidly within one segment of your former party? >> i'm glad you mentioned cpac. that has been the star wars of the conservative movement. it is extraordinary when they have self proclaimed people like one of featured speakers it makes no secret of his authoritarian tendencies, not to mention the over racism. you asked a great question. where did this come from?

the politics of paranoia and conspiracy theories are not new. until relatively recently, they were confined to the fringes of the right. i have described them as a recessive gene that we always assume, okay, you have the crazy uncle that has allowed at the end of the bar with a crazy uncle at thanksgiving. they would never dominate the party. while the mouth breathers from the right that were exiled back in the 1960s are back. they have become the establishment. that is what has been happening here. you have the fringes and the extremists from the far edges of the fever swamp that are near the establishment of the republican party. it is extraordinary. when you think about what conservatives used to say about american exceptionalism, and how they wrap themselves in the flag. who is the rock star as the pack?

it is the hungarian strongman, who has risen to prominence because he is anti-immigrant, anti-tran14, among others. this is a preview of the coming attractions. it is not just for november, but for the next several years. >> let's talk about cpac. these conservatives are gathering in dallas for the annual cpac convention. there is an argument, they really stand for conservative's balls. however, donald trump will address the event on saturday. that should tell you something. other high-profile speakers include steve bannon, sarah palin, and sean hannity. at the far right hungarian prime minister as well. that will be one week after his racist remarks i countries

where european and non- europeans mix are no longer nations. he has been alienated by much of the european union. last week, he met with trump. as the bbc put it, he will be among friends in texas this weekend. here was what was written in a column in the washington post. >> a hero that trump right shows his true colors, whites only. he writes in part, thank you, for showing us where the american right is heading. the hungarian strongman, that derailed his countries democracy has been a darling of the maga crowd. he has been invited as a speaker in texas, alongside the who's who of republican senators, governors, members of congress as well as former president donald trump himself.

he made things awkward for his american friends a few days ago, during an address picking a voice of the belief, underlying his nationalism. he opposes the mixing of races. that was too much even for one of his longtime advisers that resigned and lambasted the prime minister for a speech or the of [ indiscernible ]. she suggested, advocating the openly racist policy that is unacceptable, even for the western european extreme right. not for the american right. cpac's organizer confirmed on wednesday that viktor orban is scheduled to address the group next week. it was good of viktor orban to spell that out. now we know what the white nationalist in viktor orban, and the american families at

aipac have in mind, when the rage against immigration, and the great replacement. they want to take us back to the dark ages. let's say a bit about viktor orban, and why this is beyond a despicable choice for a speaker at cpac, in a long line of despicable choices of people that claim to be conservatives, but quite frankly stand for the republican right. as we go to the midterms, republicans can be proud of racism, and viktor orban going to cpac. perhaps backing a bill of rights, to use joe's words, and so on, and so on. i don't know where this is going, but i find it quite frightening. it does not appear to be dying. viktor orban 72 has been shunned by most of europe. he is seen as too far to the

right for europe. it seems he can find a home here in america, particularly at cpac. you can come to america and find yourself among friends. he is not only somebody who espoused views that have been described as nazi. one supporter of policies that she could no longer stay with him because his views were in line with hitler's views about race, specifically about the idea that races should not mix. that is the man speaking at cpac. he has also done something else in hungary. it is important for americans to understand this, he has dismantled democracy at home. maybe that is the appeal. he has systematically, during his tenure, rigged elections.

he has change the constitution to make it very difficult for his political opponents to run in elections. any rigged the media as well. he put his own cronies in top positions in the media, to make it even harder for his lyrical opponents to get their views heard. he created a state that is really hard to define as democratic anymore, inside the european union. he used his powers to change hungary. this is the person that has been invited to speak at cpac. the chairman of cpac was asked about whether this was a good idea to have somebody with autocratic tended he's like this to weaken america at a political organization, he said, well if they have concerns about him, they can raise them. raise concerns about somebody like viktor orban. that seems a very mild rebuke for somebody who has done as much as he has done to make his country autocratic. >> mild indeed. we don't to wait for dallas. donald trump has met with

viktor orban. they met in new jersey this week. we have pictures right here of a rather warm handshake. let's also recall, one of the other most influential voices in the current republican party is tucker carlson. he hosted a series of shows in hungary, wrapping his arms around what viktor orban is saying. how dangerous is this for what the gop stands for, and that these views are being filtered to your everyday republicans, whether through the former president, or perhaps through the number one voice on fox news? >> it is clarifying, about what the right stands for. it is extraordinarily dangerous. they are not pretending here. you don't to work hard to connect the dots to see the fascination with viktor orban. he is a featured speaker at cpac . there has been a romance

between him and the fox news host, broadcasting to millions of americans. also, donald trump has gone out of his way to embrace viktor orban. he endorsed him when he was running for reelection. the former president endorses a foreign, authoritarian leader. what you are seeing is this over embrace of post- liberalism. we talk a lot about democracy. what we are talking about is the liberal constitutional order. that is exactly what viktor orban is attacking in hungary. we look at what he represents internationally. this is a post constitutional, post liberal constitutional order. i don't think it's any secret why donald trump is fascinated with viktor orban. he has a thing for strongmen like vladimir putin, kim, or others. he has a fascination with people that will run rush over

democratic norms. to your question, when you see somebody like viktor orban given the kind of platforms that he has, these attitudes are being normalized to millions of americans that think, okay, maybe liberal constitutional democracy is not the best way. maybe we should seize the levers of power to inflict pain on people we don't like like immigrants and minorities. this is what viktor orban does represent. it is an extra ordinary moment. donald trump, once again, is telling us who he is, what he admires, and the type of model he might follow if he ever gets back into power. the headline and the bbc captures it well. it says viktor orban, alone in europe, but among friends in texas, where he will be this

morning. we are learning about the power of former president trump's endorsement during the midterm election season. despite several high-profile losses earlier this year, several candidates he backed won their primaries this week in michigan and arizona. 11 of the 12 endorsed candidates have won primaries for secretary of state, congress, u.s., and state senate in arizona. all have embraced his false claims of election fraud. the handful of primaries left. 188 trump backed candidates have won primaries since he left office. two have dropped out or were disqualified. two races have yet to be called. 26 are waiting for their primaries. trump takes a forceful new step in his battle against wisconsin. the state assembly speaker, just as for the primary there. the former president announced his endorsement of the republican leaders lesser known primary opponent.

divorce refused to overturn wisconsin's election results. that was a state that president biden won narrowly. trump contacted him as recently as last month, pressing him to decertify wisconsin's 2020 election results. when was the last time you spoke with former president trump's? >> last week. >> reporter: was a conversation like? >> it is very consistent. he makes his case, which i respect. he would like us to do something different in wisconsin. i said it it is not allowed by the constitution. he has a different opinion. >> his challenger is an underfunded, far right republican come that would try to claw back the 10 college votes from 2020. with that is something that is not possible, legally. he is opposed to all abortions under any circumstances. he said he would make

contraception illegal in wisconsin. this is your state of wisconsin. break down what is going on here. we are looking to the extremes to which the republican party is going to please donald trump. he is getting behind candidates because they will go along with his election lies. they say there should never be an abortion of any kind, ever, and contraception should be banned, in this case. >> i am known robin boss for years. if only he had been warned about this. oh wait, he was. this is how republicans have stumbled. boss is right, there is no way to decertify the election. he has gone along with some of the the nihilism of the election. he appointed were created a bogus and costly investigation that found no fraud, whatsoever. now he is finding out, the

trump basis turning on him. it is interesting what donald trump is doing in wisconsin. none of the other issues that you mentioned about abortion matter to donald trump. all he is concerned about is revenge. he is coming to wisconsin to campaign for his endorsed candidate for governor. i do have to say, it is really dividing republicans, and leaving a lot of bruises here. you have the former president, parachuting into wisconsin, and he will spend a lot of his time attacking other republicans. he will push the big lie. this is a year in which republicans have the wind at their back. they have been very, very competent about the winning of the governorship. trump has come in, and he has dropped this little neutron bomb into the middle of the republican party. it is a very, negative campaign, and approximately five between donald trump on one side, mike pence, and scott walker on the other side who is

supporting kleefisch. he is the most powerful, legislative republican in the state. this would be a real indication of the extent of the craze of the republican politics in wisconsin. it would put a big? over how this will play in a swing state. >> thank you so much for being on this morning. still ahead on morning joe, as democrats try to get the reconciliation package across the finish line, senator qanon five is proposing some changes. senator cory booker will be our guest for the latest on where the negotiations stand. the transportation secretary, pete buttigieg, will join us as they celebrate 50

straight days of falling gas prices. we will ask what is going on with air travel. up next, listen at the first hearing yesterday on a bill aimed at reforming the electoral count act. the 135-year-old law that trump supporters tried to exploit in their efforts to overturn the election they lost. one of the experts that testifies will join us. they said the badly drafted monies to be rewritten immediately. we are back in just a moment. make a sound decision. call 1-800 miracle now, and book your free hearing evaluation.

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does not clarify that the vice president is prohibited. it clarifies that the vice president, whoever he or she may be is prohibited from interfering with electoral votes. we were there on january 6. that happened. that was for real. that was not a visit from friends from back home. we haven't duty and responsibility to ensure it never happens again. senator joe manchin are urging the quick passage of the bipartisan electoral count reform act. this would update the 19th century law that former president donald trump tried to exploit, in an attempt to overturn the 2020 election. the republican and democratic senators testified yesterday, before the senate rules and administration committee said they desperately need to close the loopholes in the 1887 statute. joining us now, the former white house counsel to president obama, bob bauer,

currently a professor at nyu school of law. he recently testified on the electoral college reform act. also with us, harvard law school professor and former assistant attorney general, jack goldsmith. the other cofounders of lockers and leader of the presidential reform act. you testified, yesterday. you talk about how this reform is an urgent situation. can you explain why? >> as you said in your intro, this statute is 135 years old. it has been a loaded weapon, lying on the desk. it is poorly worded and subject to vast interpretation. it is dangerous. the time has come to reform it. now that these dangers are clearly exposed. there is a path forward here. bipartisan group produced a [

indiscernible ]. it was extraordinary. we are looking at how much widespread bipartisan support it has received. it fundamental design is right on target. in many respects, it accomplishes two things. the first is, it prevents the majorities in the congress or the states from seeking to overturn the outcome of lawful elections that reflect the popular vote. secondly, it clarifies congress's role in the january 6 session. the vice president's role is purely as a minister. there is clearly a path forward with much bipartisan support. >> it seems that maybe they should have been done a long time ago. how does this shore up the elections? how did trump try to exploit the existing situation and statutes? >> there were two essential ways, two essential laws and

flaws revealed in the original law. they were tried to be exploited in the 2020 election. there were many efforts. the two were to get the vice president to try to count votes, deciding which votes should be counted, and make substantive decisions on which electors to count. the second was, there was an effort to send several different slates from the states, other than slates of electors, other than the ones that were chosen pursuant to the boat. the bill would directly address both of those issues. if bob said the main core of the bill, seems simple and obvious, the main core of the bill is to make sure that the boat that took place on election day, by the voters, is the one that gets respected in the presidential count. does it by eliminating, through various processes, the idea that you kids send more than one slate. it makes clear what slate is

the right slate. it also makes clear that the vice president's role is ministerial. they don't have broader responsibilities >> obviously, the urgency of this effort has intensified, not just because of january 6, but because of some of the candidates we have seen elected a couple days ago, in places like arizona, michigan, or pennsylvania, who have said openly that they believe that the 2020 election was rigged, and they have been in a position of power, they would have flipped the results. my question is, what type of support are you singing congress? it's hard to imagine somebody opposing this, except as so many republicans support what donald trump tried to do in 2020. >> neer is a remarkable show of democratic and republican support. i think there is a recognition that this statute, while it is

one piece of protecting elections, it is critical. it is within the power of congress to do something about it, and do something about it before the next presidential election cycle. at most, what we have heard our suggestions for clarifications and technical corrections. the fundamental design, that we are describing here, and jack reviewed, is a design that has a remarkable amount of support. it was underscoring the democrat and republican, nonpartisan support that this design has drawn. >> professor, listening to this conversation this morning, and reading about the reform, and thinking about this as it has been just us for weeks or months, actually, it is amazing that we have not had a crisis before this. i'm thinking about 1960, or the year 2000, both contested elections. they were uncontested, and the winner became president of the united states. what you think about the reform act today, in congress, when

you have elected officials, elected officials who only reluctantly concede that joe biden was elected president of the united states? >> criswell, to the history of the point of the act, it could have gone off the rails at any point in the past. the problems in the past became much more obvious in 2020. as for people that take various views about the validity of the last election, this law is aimed to ensure, as i said earlier, that despite people's attitudes in congress, or the state about what should have happened with the boat, it takes extraordinary steps to make sure that the actual vote, that was made in the states is reflected in the presidential

electors a vote for the president, reflected by what the people chose. the effort to deny that are snapped. this is what the bill attempts to do. it is achieved remarkably well. i will do a dangerous thing, and share some of donald trump's thinking. he has argued that the very fact that congress is trying to address this law and change this law is proof that that vice president mike pence had the authority to change the results, or overturn the certification process. what is your response to that argument? >> setting aside the question of whether donald trump possesses the training, the credentials, or is made a good- faith effort to understand the law, setting that all aside, i can only say he is in the minority, and extreme minority. the better part of the views,

by far, across the entire spectrum of legal scholarship, those that are familiar with the statute, is that is completely wrong. of course, when congress turns around and looks at a statue like this, and attempts to make adjustments to absolutely clarify what its intent was, that does not mean that its intent was different before the clarifications were made. i would have to say, he is alone in that view, certainly alone among anyone who has any knowledge of the statute, its history, or have them part of the interpretation on all side of the lyrical spectrum. >> just to be clear, this bill, if it is passed, means somebody like mark fincham, who was chosen as the republican nominee in arizona, says he wants to change the way the voting is held, and the way votes are counted, he has also said he does not think that a democrat could ever win in arizona. somebody like that would not be able to interfere with the outcome of arizona's result, is that right?>> that is correct.

the boat that takes place on election day, pursuant to state law, the constitution gives the states the authority to determine how the electors are appointed. this bill would ensure that the boat that took place on election day would be the one that is reflected in the electors, the slate of electors and a slate of ascertainment that the congress. it is what it is designed to do. it is designed precisely to not allow executive officials in the state to depart from the state laws to reach a result other than the ones at the voters chose for whatever political reasons. one of the core aims of the bill is to ensure that does not happen. >> bob, i am curious, before you go, watching all of this and tapping into your legal minds, the hearings, the doj inquiries, the actions or inaction by the department of justice so far, it is leading

to a lot of accountability for the insurrectionist, and those around president trump. do you see any exposure, or accountability coming in the legal realm for the men that many believe led the charge on january 6? >> i have no insight into how the investigation is progressing. it is substantial resources committed. there have been reports suggesting that the inquiries have turned to the former president himself, and his inner circle. i think we can expect that there will be a thorough review. there is no reason to doubt that would be the case. the outcome is one i am not in a position to forecast it would be a mistake to assume that the wide-ranging investigation, consistent with the press reports will overlook anybody, from the top to the bottom that had any hand in the event of january 6. thank you for these inside

leaders. bob bauer and jack goldsmith, thank you for being on this money. we want to bring tom rogers into the conversation. he is the editor at large at newsweek and a contributor. he is a member of keep our republic, an organization dedicated to preserving democracy. on monday, we talked about your piece, entitled the worst supreme court decision is yet to come, and why it has the potential of giving the final say on election disputes to state legislatures. you argued the case would prevent a path for state legislatures to overturn the popular vote. the next time, if the independent state legislature doctrine is upheld by the supreme court, it would be legal to do so. despite these results that we have seen out of the primaries so far, you see way for

democrats to keep all of this from happening. can you explain that? >> sure, thank you for having me. despite the reform efforts that we just discussed, the supreme court case, which would give the state legislatures, ultimate power to decide what presidential elections, how they are structured, and the final say on electors being sent to the electoral college from each state. they could easily got much of the reform efforts if this did pass. it is hugely problematic. just like kansas hasn't given democrats a lot of hope, given the turnout on abortion, there is real hope here on the state legislature runt, despite the fact that democrats have lost 1000 state legislative seats over the last 10 years across the country. a group called forward majority has done some phenomenal

analytic work. when it comes down to three key swing states, they are fully controlled by republicans at the state legislature level, arizona, michigan, and pennsylvania. there is a real basis to think that those three state legislatures can be flipped. the hope is this, across those three states, a total, a total of 12 state legislative seats sit between republican control and undoing republican control. that is a two seat majority in each chamber in arizona and a two seat, or six seat in each chamber in michigan. during the last election, the state legislature raises, overall, came down to a tiny number of votes. in arizona, the difference between democratic and republican control was 3000 votes. in michigan, it was 8600 votes. they have identified, 25 to 40,

even with the gerrymandering going on since the last election, these are ultimately able to be flipped. with the narrow margins, they could turn these three key swing states from republican control to no control. why is this so crucial? it is so crucial because, when you add those three swing to the 20 states that republicans do not have control over the state legislature, you get to a total of 270 electoral votes, the magic number you need for a president to be elected through the electoral college. that is critical. even more critical of the fact that the state legislature elections, that will take place in three months, and two of these three states, the state legislators elected this november will still be in power, in session in december 2024 when the electoral college

issues are in front of those state legislatures for the next presidential election. autumn line? we don't have to just sit here and wait for the supreme court to make another decision to undo the popular will. there is real ability to flip the state legislatures. more reason to activate. thank you very much for coming on this morning. we will get an update from kentucky. safety crews are continued to search for people swept away by floodwaters. president biden takes action to protect women to leave their states for abortion. tuesday's vote to protect the right to the procedure and kansas came as a surprise to some. we go to the signs. we will be right back. back. flowers are fighters.

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government officials in ukraine are accusing russia of abducting thousands of ukrainian children since its invasion of the country. our nbc correspondent shows us the urgent effort to get those children back. with the latest on ukraine's counteroffensive against russia. remake ukraine says it is holding its ground in the east. that is thanks to us-made guided missiles. we look at the weapons impact. it is vital in slowing russia's advance. >> you have seen the front lines, how would you describe the fighting there right now? >> is as of the russian military is able to advance, it is only a few hundred meters per day.>> reporter: in washington, new sanctions targeting the russian elites, including the reported girlfriend of russian president vladimir putin. the former olympic gold medalist. meanwhile, ukraine is launching a mission to rescue the word gender victims. of 5000 children are missing

somewhere in russian occupied territories. >> children were deported, and taken forcefully from the territory of ukraine.>> reporter: they said 11-year-old sasha was one of them. separated from his family at a mariupol hospital. he was reunited with his grandmother. they said his mother is still missing.>> reporter: where do you find them, and what utilities children? >> with god's will, maybe the war will end and she will come back to her children. coming up next, senator cory booker says he has a plan to make the supreme court less political to end lifetime appointments for justices. whether the senator said term limits would lower the temperature all around. the new jersey democrat joins us to explain, just ahead. with the state in history,

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it is 10 minutes before the hour. the floodwaters have taken 37 lives in kentucky. for those that did survive, they are left with almost nothing. sometimes, searching for loved ones is all they have.>> reporter: in kentucky, this grocery store has nothing to sell. >> it is just devastation. it is total devastation. >> reporter: deadly floods go to the supermarket. >> we can see where the water came up. look at this shelf. everything else is mud. >> we have to understand, our customers were our family.

the people that work here are our family. we know each other. we know each other's pains. >> reporter: this neighbor, natosha, lost everything. >> i have no belongings. i have no home. i have nothing.>> reporter: one week after this horrific natural disaster began, residents are still lining up for basic supplies. neighbors are helping each other pickup the muddy, shattered pieces. >> all we can do is rebuild and get back what we lost.>> reporter: many law something they can replace. among the 37 killed, gabriel, his wife said the 30-year-old was heading home from the overnight shift when the flood swept with the father of five. other families are still looking for closure. he is my everything.>> reporter: tracy has not heard from her dad since the flood reduces house to concrete blocks. she's waiting to see if her dna

matches a victim. you make i would give anything to get my dad a hug, you know. if they could find him, that would be wonderful.>> reporter: grave, compassion, and perseverance. it is rising from the brutal force of nature. we will be following up. president biden signed a new executive order yesterday, aimed at protecting access to reproductive health care services, and to make it easier to travel to obtain an abortion. at the signing, the president and the vice president praised the voters for overwhelmingly upholding abortion rights in kansas. >> it was a decisive vote, and a decisive victory. voters made it clear that politician should not interfere with the fundamental rights of women. the voters in kansas sent a powerful signal that this fall, the american people will vote to preserve and protect the rights, and refused to let them

be ripped away by politicians. my administration has their back. remake the people of kansas spoke yesterday. they spoke loud and clear. they said, this is not a partisan issue. the women of america should not be the subject of partisan debate, or perspective. the people of kansas spoke. they said, this is a matter of defense of basic principles of liberty and freedom in america. they spoke loudly. they say they trust women to make decisions about their own lives and their bodies. and they said, the government should not be mandating those decisions for the women of america. so, today, we are prepared to do the work that is necessary.

we have a couple of things. first of all, president biden speaks very eloquently about a woman's right to an abortion and taking that right, and doing what he's be done. he tries to really activate voters on that front. this is a space where vice president molly harris can step into very comfortable. what are your thoughts on all of this? >> it is interesting to hear her out front talking about this. we are talking about women's issues to women. she is the ideal person to be doing that. sometimes, when kamala harris speaks in public, on the prompter, she could sound deaf, she did not sound stiff. this is something she feels strongly about. what happened in kansas is a reflection of a kickback from the overreach of the supreme court. you have a conservative state saying, not everybody may agree with you on choice or not

choice. they don't want the supreme court to go as far as it did. it will be so interesting to see how this ripples out in states like pennsylvania. abortion will be key in the midterm elections in november. this has to have been a good day for democrats in pennsylvania, fighting to protect abortion rights. it's to make you think. kansas did tell us what is to come. thank you so much. we will speak with democratic senators bob menendez add cory booker on their efforts to pass a bill that is chock-full of president biden's big agenda items before the summer recess. we are looking where things stand with the one democratic senator that remains on the fence? gas prices continue to fall, but remain a dollar above where they were last year. the transportation secretary will be here. we have more on the far right leader, with ties to vladimir putin, and the anti-

immigration abuse, racist abuse, who is set to speak at the largest collection of conservatives today. morning joe is back in a moment. a moment. ♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪

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kansas was just the start. if it can happen in kansas, it will happen in a lot of other states. the strong pro-choice turnout we saw in kansas will continue well into the fall. republicans, that side with these extremist maga policies, tacking women's rights , do so at their own political risk. it is the top of the third hour of morning joe. senator chuck schumer says the abortion rights win in kansas this week is a good sign for democrats going into the fall

midterms. welcome back to morning joe. it is thursday, august 4. jonathan and michael are here along with willie and me. we start with republicans gathering in texas for the annual conservative political action conference, referred to as cpac. what a controversial guest they have. we have more. >> reporter: in texas today, the world's biggest lineup of conservatives will descend on cpac, featuring republican lawmakers like ted cruz and lauren hubbard. we have media personalities like sean hannity, and the man that dominates the party, former president donald trump. he will deliver the keynote address on saturday. i guess a backdrop of key cast and his group of the gop, multiple candidates that he backed him and that embraced his election fraud lies are doing well, including former tv host comic kari lake, in a race

too close to call, with the narrow lead in the arizona governor primary. she is set to appear at cpac, after claiming, without evidence, before election day that the primary was rigged until the votes came in, showing her in the lead. mcdermott bring the republican party together. we are one big happy, sometimes dysfunctional family. >> reporter: another trump allies that just because is the hungarian far right leader, viktor orban. he met with mr. trump on tuesday. he attracted the following amongst u.s. and conservative for his anti-immigrant rhetoric. during a recent speech and or romania, he says he does not want hungary to be a mixed race country, railing against migrants from outside europe. all that came as democrats are celebrating, and hoping to capitalize on momentum in the midterms around access to abortion, after a stunner of a win for abortion rights advocates in kansas. voters chose to protect abortion access.

president biden signs an executive order for those seeking an abortion to travel between states. he applauded the kansas vote, and what it could mean for november. >> we are asking people to go to the ballot box and vote for the right to choose. we will bring in the columnist at the conservative website. we have amanda carpenter. we have a lot to dig through. let's begin with cpac and viktor orban, the hungarian president. you know that event pretty well. i guess the question a lot of republicans have, people have been republicans for a long time, how did the party of ronald reagan become a party that worships a guy like viktor orban. we know why donald trump does, because he aspires to be that kind of authoritarian. how did this group fall in line with that, and feature him as a speaker?>> reporter: when i went to cpac, as a young conservative in washington, i

remember the stage welcoming leaders from ukraine that were pushing back against russian aggression. those were the types of people that were celebrated. i really think things changed under trump. under trump, there is a fascination, and a respect or obsession with strongmen on the international stage. i think it has a lot to do with conservatives losing the arguments when it comes to things like race, identity, and immigration here at home. they are looking for support abroad to bolster their positions. it is not just viktor orban. tucker carlson is a huge maga influencer. he has gone abroad to lend him credibility. you see this with what trump did with vladimir putin throughout his administration. he's from the conclusions of the intelligence committee to standby vladimir putin say, you know what, i will hear him out,

i will settle up next to him. you see this over the weekend, sidling up to the saudi royal family. this is something that is happening in the conservative movement. they want to spur this international liberal order that the united states has traditionally stood for, and seek out alliances with these strongmen. >> viktor orban is alone in europe taking the side of russia against ukraine. we did mention that kari lake will be speaking at cpac. that race is too close to call from her point of view here at msnbc. she is leading to become the republican nominee. she called into question, for weeks, the results of the election, which it appears she may win. that puts her in a precarious situation. what you read into the results we saw? donald trump, without question, it had a good night in arizona. his candidates nearly ran the table. people say the 2020 election was rigged.

he will are in positions of power that could have influenced to do something about a vote in 2024. you look in michigan where his candidates won as well. what should we read from what we saw on tuesday? >> what ties together with cpac, places like cpac is where the candidates like kari lake get their power. they know, if they have a close relationship with the grassroots, that trump cultivated, who will not leave his side, that are largely united over the big election lie, but things like covid-19, they can get the republican primary with that base, ultimately, the republican establishment will rally behind them. you notice that kari lake was saying, you know what, i will be the unity candidate. you saw that happen in michigan. peter meyer was one of the 10 house republicans have voted for impeachment. he was defeated by a trump endorsed maga candidate. we have all of these talks about whether it was good or

bad. i was very disappointed to see peter attend a unity event with that candidate, essentially saying, now is the time to come together. as long as they maga candidates know that republicans, no matter what, will come together on these lies in the end, and it will never be a dealbreaker, they will continue to do it and win. there are no consequences for it. >> a lot of the big lie candidates stand to run in the general election in november. there is a sense that the stomach will just come home. that was not the only storyline on tuesday. the other one is the decision, that it abortion decision in kansas. it was overwhelmingly routed to keep abortion legal in that state. what lessons should republican straw between now and november?

>> i think republicans, i was one that has always been skeptical of the promises from democratic activists in, watch the turnout, i always had the assumption that the democrats would take the most extreme position of adopting abortion everywhere, on demand. actually, because the court went for the full repeal of roe v. wade, not the 15 weeks and after that justice roberts whatever he preferred. now republicans have become the extremist party on abortion. it is not just about, that procedure. when you see women talk about how the laws are being handed down in places like texas, where women can be stocked, investigated, and doctors can be prosecuted in question for whatever care they provide, it opened some eyes. i do caution one take away from

kansas. this was a rare event, where the referendum was isolated to the abortion issue alone. it was not tied to a candidate. if you can isolated to a single issue, it is a powerful turnout factor for democrats. that may be different, once it is a choice on the ballot between two individuals. if democrats can keep it as a single issue, and not tied to a particular personality or politician, it can be very powerful. the director of polling and politics joins us now. while some may have been surprised by the kansas vote, john, you point to a number of indicators, that foreshadowed the result. a cnn poll back in may, asked if the u.s. supreme court clearly overturned the roe v. wade decision, how would you feel? 61% of democrats and 40% of

women said angry. another 21% said dissatisfied. in june, monolith asked, how much would it bother voters if abortion was banned nationwide? the majority responded, a lot, including 65% of women. more than 60% of all voters under 50. one chart shows that after the decision of dobbs, there was a spike of voter registration in kansas. many were from newly minted democrats. in late july, cbs news poll indicated that 67% of women under 50 describe the gop as extreme, with 52% of women over 50 that said the same. lastly, pulling from the day before the kansas vote showed 54% of registered voters and 60% of women support congress codifying roe v. wade. how can we apply these indicators to other elections or the midterms?

is this just a one-time, one area thing? i feel like, for republican women, that might be uncomfortable in january 6, but will not really look at it, they might be uncomfortable with other issues that some may doubt, even racism. they may look the other way. this applies to them. >> i do think so. obviously, we did show, we cannot say that we haven't been warned. we were certainly warned. when we think about polling, we were not pulling on what people thought of the increase of gas prices, and how that made him feel, or the cost of eggs. these are important issues. what we were measuring was what women think, specifically what women think about government stripping away a fundamental right, that their parents, and in some cases their grandparents had for 50 years.

a woman and a child's right to control their body. it is a fundamentally different question than how people feel about the economy, or foreign policy. the gravity of this question, do not appreciate those statistics, that were in public polling. we did not focus on. we were focused on elections that may or may not happen 2 years from now. it is disrespectful to women, not understanding what was being stripped away. we really need to look beyond those headlines and see the passion that is existing. >> amanda, and then john, if you could both answer this, is this something we should be tracking amongst republican women? is this an issue that could have them vote democrat in the next election, our vote differently than they ever have before? mech i am not sure. i'm very curious to see how the democratic activists message the issue to voters in kansas.

this is such a republican state. from what i have seen, it has not been the hard-line, my body, my choice sort of rhetoric. what i find very persuasive is republican women, there are a lot of republican women that consider themselves pro-life. i am one of them. we do realize that terrible, awful things happen during the course of a pregnancy, where the life is not possible. it would be terrible, it would be a double tragedy, to potentially lose two lives instead of one. i think if we can have these real conversations about how traumatic, and hard pregnancy can be, especially for people that dearly wanted those children, yes, i think it is a great conversation to have. if it turns into a conversation about how this is a throwaway decision, that is easily made, that disrespects women, and turns republican women off.

>> i do think that inflation is a key driver for republican women. when you look at national polling, it is a top issue for 25% of all voters. 70% say other issues are dogging that decision. the issues are abortion, healthcare, guns, and climate. what that means is, it is a much more complex decision in november then a lot of people consider. it is not about what democrats do, i don't know what the republican messing messaging is around inflation as well. the degree to which democrats can widen the aperture on these issues, and show progress on economic plans. i think there is a significant opportunity to win some of the independent vote. he may shift a lot of republican women, but i don't know. i think that is an option.

>> thank you very much. he is the author of the book, fight, how dense he is channeling. passion to save america? amanda carpenter, thank you as well for coming on the show this morning. joining us now, democratic senator, cory booker of new jersey. senator, it is pretty heavy on the show this morning. spirit we have a lot of new jersey on today's show. senator menendez will be on a little later. i went to ask about the reconciliation bill that seems to be hinging on senator trent 25 of arizona. all eyes are on her. she raised concerns about the interest loophole. are you confident, speaking to your colleagues and leadership, that you will get the vote and the bill will move through with reconciliation? you may guess, i am very confident. this bill is being hailed by unexpected quarters. we have secretaries of treasury

from both parties of both presidents that came out that this will reduce inflation. it will reduce the medical costs and prescription drug costs, and energy costs. it will rise to meet the existential threat of the future, which is costing the economy trillions of dollars like climate change. we are seeing this from economists across the political spectrum. they are endorsing this bill. it gives a lot of momentum with democrats in general, and the moderate and conservative democrats in particular. >> as we talked about what happened in kansas around abortion, the overwhelming vote, did set off some alarm bells amongst the republican saying abortion will be an issue that democrats can run on and we need to be careful on during midterms. if you put that piece of data into the equation, you and with it, if you get this reconciliation through, if you put in the trillion-dollar up a structure package, it starts to look like you have some nice things to run on.

yet, inflation is the number one issue on people's minds. how are you feeling about the fall for your party, as you try to hold onto the senate x >> there is a lot to talk about from what present biden and congress has done. we have invested in every structure, creating millions of jobs. we have bipartisan bills to deal with a gun crisis. is one of the 10 democrats that met with 10 republicans across the aisle for the first time in decades. we have a bipartisan bill to deal with signs and ship manufacturing. this is a national security issue. we are seeing bill after bill, meeting the urgencies of the moment. now, here we are at the precipice of getting the bill done that will drive down costs for americans. we have energy costs, prescription costs, medical costs. yes, we are in a crisis that the globe is facing. all countries are seeing 9%

inflation or more. we are meeting the global crisis of the pandemic and the economy. democrats are doing things. republicans, unfortunately, are shifting hard to the right. they are going after abortion care, and creating a dystopian reality, where a survivor of , can be sued by their to collect a bounty if they get an abortion. we have people heralding the day when we challenge contraception care, gay marriage, and more. this is not who we are as a country. we want pragmatic policies and bipartisan bills. i do think, folks are beginning to see the extremists are winning in the republican party. we are driving toward things to meet the challenges of our day. >> the pending legislation includes what you just talked about. this is reducing prescription drug care costs. what drugs? what reduction, specifically?

>> remember, democrats republicans have talked for years, but not done it, the very common sense thing of a free market ideal. let the biggest buyer of prescription drugs, medicare medicaid, negotiate prices. that alone, gives us tremendous leverage to drive down prescription drug costs across the board. when we look at the pain points of the american people, this is one of the greatest pain points that is described, is how expensive prescription drugs are. i was in newark, new jersey. a woman set of prescription drug costs were $600 per month. her co-pay was over $100 per month. these stories are crippling people. this will enable the government, entering the free market to drive down prices across the board. obviously, we are looking at some of the worst offenders, like insulin costs in the u.s. we are making sure we are getting those down, and trying

to limit out-of-pocket prescription drug costs overall. and want to ask you about some legislation that you are behind here, cosponsoring the supreme court tenure establishment and retirement modernization act. this would be 18 year terms for justices under this new legislation. what prompted this? i do expect it is the roe v. wade decision. it has been in the work for a few years. >> we have talked about this a lot. the senators of join together to say, there are calls that fall on partisan lines to reform the supreme court. here is an idea that has come from conservatives for a long time. why do we have this institution, where the motivation is for people to pay into their 80s or 90s, and hold on as long as they can, hoping they'll get a president of a certain party to have the incentive to have people in the spring court, without

considering perverse motivations. let's create 18 year terms, and stagger them, so every president that is elected, by the people in a democratic fashion, has a thick every other year. if you make an eight-year presidency, you'll get four supreme court justices. that is more democratic and fair. they can restore a lot of trust, and respect and reverence for this important branch of government. >> know republicans are saying, of course what term limits now, because the democrats got the decisions they didn't like. do you suspect you will get republican supports for this legislation? >> this is supported by 60% of the american public, right and left. these are decisions, not just that i don't like, but that are fundamentally rolling back the rights of americans, whether it is citizens united, that has

allowed ungodly amounts of money to come into the system, diluting america's voice, or the stripping of the rights of privacy, or the potential stripping of the right to marry who you want, and the rolling back of voting rights. these are big issues. that is a motivating factor. my job is to always find a way to bring people together to get things done. this is an idea that has been more partisan. this is an idea that the majority of americans support. it has come from conservative circles, and it can restore the court. the pendulum in this place swings back and forth. let's find solutions that will not only help deal with real problems, but to preserve the end integrity over time. this is one of those ideas. >> democratic senator and al set a tight end and north

regional university, take you so much, we appreciate it. >> i am grateful to you, all the best. della head on morning joe, we have on the democrats reconciliation bill. senator bob menendez has said he would like to see some changes made. he joins us at the top of the next hour of morning joe. we will speak with the transportation secretary, pete buttigieg, on falling gas prices, and a proposal to help air travelers. later, we will explain why there are major changes coming to hbo streaming's service, as the parent company chooses to walk away from a $90 million film called irredeemable. up next, former cia director is calling it a cover- up, as the leading democrats are calling for an investigation into missing text messages surrounding the january 6 insurrection.

the former secretary of homeland security, j johnson, will give us his thoughts. you are watching morning joe. we will be right back. back. a " the women and men i served with in combat, we earned our benefits. just like people earned their social security and medicare benefits. but republicans in congress have a plan to end so-called "entitlements" in just five years. social security, medicare, even veterans benefits. go online and read the republican plan for yourself. joe biden is fighting to protect social security, medicare and veterans benefits. call joe biden and tell him to keep fighting for our benefits.

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let's start with the number two democrat calling on the department of defense to open an investigation into missing text messages from key officials around january 6. dick durbin of illinois asked the inspector general to launch a probe into the deleted medications of several trump appointed officials that were tasked with pulling the national guard during the attack on january 6. the disappearance of the critical

information could jeopardize efforts to learn the full truth about january 6. i don't know whether the failure to preserve the critical government text messages is the result of bad faith, stunning incompetence, or outdated policies, we must get to the bottom of it. on tuesday, court records revealed the cell phones of top former defense officials, including the defense and army secretaries were wiped in the aftermath of the insurrection. the pentagon claims this is standard operating procedure for departing employees. that news comes just weeks after it was revealed that the secret service and department of homeland security officials had their messages from january 6 erased. it is the job of congress to preserve those communications. the cia director was asked yesterday about the text messages being wiped from government phones. here is what he had to say to andrea mitchell.

>> this is another major concern, that obviously, officials out of the trump administration were taking steps to make sure that potential evidence along january 6 would not be there. i really do think the justice department has to investigate the loss of this kind of critical evidence. there is no question that this was not bureaucracy doing what bureaucracies do. this was a deliberate effort to make sure that very important evidence, regarding the players of the secret service, and elsewhere, we look at what they were saying and doing a january 6. all of which is very relevant to the investigation as to what happened. >> you are saying this is a

cover-up?:i don't think there is any question, when you go from agency to agency, and find out that key messages have been deleted, something is going on here, that resembles a conspiracy. >> mr. secretary, let me begin with you, and i will see if you agree with leon. we did hear from other folks saying, there is a chance that the policy of departing employees with these text messages were white, and their phones were cleaned. when you go through the secret service, the department of homeland security, and now the department of defense, and officials at this level of those organizations, in and around a critical day, and an investigation surrounding them, does this past the smell test that this was something bureaucratic? >> i will answer it this way, the seniormost levels of those

departments, i would have to say, it does smell. it is automatic. before i was secretary of homeland security, i was the general counsel of the department of defense, when leon panetta was the secretary of defense. i can say, if i had been secretary of homeland security in january 2021, and some chief information officer and came to me with a plan to wipe clean the text or emails of our personnel on the earphones, as they were leaving office, i would say, no you don't. we have the federal records act, which requires that we maintain things that are generated in the course of government business. there is the freedom of information act, which means that such text messages are subject to requests from the public. i don't have a good explanation for why this information was

wiped, as a trump administration was leaving office. i do want to say this, however, about the secret service. i was the air oversight for 3 years, i was a techie of the secret service. for as long as i've known the secret service, the big stuff, like protecting hundred and 70 world leaders at a un general assembly, including the pope in 2015, the back office stuff, the unforced errors that continuously show up in the washington post stories, they have never been good at that. january 2021 was a moment of high anxiety. the nation was on high alert during the presidential transition, and an outgoing president was unhinged. i am not surprised that in that context, the line agents of the secret service that protect us did not get the data migration

exactly right. the higher level folks, i think that is a different story. there needs to be in inspector general investigation. house speaker nancy pelosi is not the only high-profile member of congress visiting taiwan. the chairman, senator bob menendez was there. he says the u.s. needs a new strategy when it comes to china, before it is too late. we have that conversation, straight ahead. straight ahead. shingles doesn't care. we've still got the best moves you've ever seen good for you, but shingles doesn't care. because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. but, no matter how healthy you feel, your immune system declines as you age increasing your risk for getting shingles. so, what can protect you? shingrix protects. you can protect yourself from shingles with a vaccine proven to be over 90% effective. shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone

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the development and the justice department's probe of the january 6 attack. nbc news confirmed, a federal grand jury subpoenaed former white house counsel, pat cipollone, as part of the investigation. this is part of the larger look into efforts to overturn the

2020 election. joining us now, the new york times congressional reporter, covering the story. what more can you tell us about what this means overall, and what pat cipollone, and others can offer? >> it is not just pat cipollone that got a subpoena. they have not yet heard from pat cipollone. [ indiscernible ] these are the top two lawyers in the trump white house. they had access to all sorts of information that is of interest, including efforts to put forward fatal afterwards -- fake electors. they sent letters to georgia, alleging there was widespread fraud, when there was no fraud bound. we don't exactly know what the

justice department want to asked the gentleman about. we know they did ask about the innermost workings of the trump white house, as the former president was trying to overturn the election. this is a signal that the justice department investigation is getting much more serious. >> obviously, pat cipollone is a central figure. he was here in the white house. we did hear that first from cassidy hutchinson during her testimony. now, pat cipollone will go before the grand jury. you are also reporting for the times that two arizona republican officials that helped plan to overturn the 2020 election were worried that their actions could appear treasonous. the chairwoman of the arizona republican party, kelly ward, and kelly townsend were both said to express concern to translators in december 2020 about participating in a plan

and [ audio is cutting in and out ]. according to emails reviewed by the times. the campaign lawyer wrote in a 2020 email to other members of the legal team, that ward and townsend, raised concerns about casting votes as part of the electors, because there was no pending legal challenge that could flip the results of arizona's election. the lawyer went on to write, ward and tauzin are concerned it could appear treasonous for the arizona electors to vote on monday, if there is no pending court proceeding that could eventually lead to the electors being ratified as a legitimate ones. the word treasonous was bolded in the email. according to luke's reporting, the use of the word underscored shows how aware they were that they were undertaking truly extra ordinary steps to keep him in office. so much so, they risked being seen as betraying their country.

of worse, they were betraying their country. this goes to something that we have seen with a select many testimony as well, the people that participated in this and [ audio is cutting in and out ] they were probably doing something illegal. and [ audio is cutting in and out ]. i don't know what the right word is. it really underscores just how aware some of the people involved were, how it was well outside of legal norms and standards. for them to write, that those that worse signing onto these slates believe it could be seen as treasonous, that is a sign. they put it in writing. they were that aware what they

were doing, and how outside of the law it could be. among the other emails, referenced in these articles, is one in which the plan was fake electors. they knew it was not legitimate. it was not some alternative strategy with legitimate questions of fraud, they knew exactly what they were doing. and yet, these people signed on. they put forward the legal arguments. they sent the soft documents to congress and then try to pressure folks go along with it. as a justice department moves forward with the investigation, it will be documenting every piece of evidence that shows that the trump campaign knew what they were doing was wrong, and it was not just a disagreement over the law. >> thank you for your reporting. is bill ahead, this was leading the news months ago.

americans nationwide are suffering sticker shock, as they empty their pockets to fill up their tanks. >> a $250 to fill up. >> gas prices have fallen for seven consecutive weeks. we will speak with the u.s. secretary of transportation, pete buttigieg, when morning joe comes back. for too long, big pharma has been squeezing americans for every penny, and inflation has only added to the pain. but congress has a historic opportunity to deliver relief,

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welcome back to morning joe. in an overwhelming, bipartisan moment, the senate passed a resolution, ratifying finland and sweden's application to join nato. the measure was approved in a 95 to 1 vote, with one senator casting the only vote against ratification, doing it so people talk about him. the opposition was reviewed in an op-ed that he wrote,

whatever. all 30 nato countries are required to ratify finland and sweden's applications for the two nations can become members. the resolution now goes to the president desk. from there, goes to the elissa michigan, a member of armed services homeland security and veterans' affairs committees. she's also a former cia analyst, so we've got a lot to talk with her about this morning. we'll start with the nato ratification and sweden and finland. how does this change our potential security interests moving forward especially given the war in ukraine? >> well, i mean, i think it is an amazing rebuke of vladimir putin that thought he could invade ukraine and nato wouldn't be strong enough to stay together to hang together to push back on him and instead it boomeranged on him and we have two new countries who have joined us. those countries are important. it is the high north. russia is very involved in the

high north. so is it doesn't do more favors for having nato allies against its borders. i think it is a thick that many, many of us have hoped for a long time and to expand nato and vladimir putin made it possible. it is so great. >> and i want to ask you about something we were talking about in the last segment when ch is the reports of the deleted text messages from the department of dfs and we heard them from homeland security and you worked in the cia and you understand what it is like to give up the phone at the end of a tenure. do you believe it is possible this is just bureaucracy, employees have their phones taken away and text messages disappear or do you believe there is something more nefarious going on. >> i don't know that i or anyone else from the outside could know. i was in the pentagon at 2017 and had to hand over my official government phone like everybody else.

and i just don't know what the thinking was in that transitional period when folks were having their phone wiped. of course, there is tech people who are probably just doing their job. but particularly if there has been requests, if there had been letters for those text messages, if there had been a request to hold everything you had, and then these departments or agencies went ahead and do this then we have a problem and those leadership folks should be asked to come in and speak to those issues. would you love to talk to the former or acting secretary of defense at that time and say what exactly was the guidance you gave as the senior most person at the pentagon. i don't know from the outside. but it doesn't smell good, that is for sure. >> congresswoman elissa slotkin, thank you. coming up, democrats are almost, almost on the same page when it comes to reconciliation. could all 50 senators get it together. we'll go live to capitol hill straight ahead on "morning joe."

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beautiful shot of san francisco as the sun is just about to come up this morning. today is the 51st straight day the average gas price in the united states has dropped. now at $4.14 per gallon. a month ago it was just over $4.80. joining us now is u.s. secretary of transportation pete buttigieg. very good to have you with us this morning, mr. secretary. where are these gas prices headed and is there anything that the administration could do to get them to this time last year which is still another dollar or so. >> that is right. we're seeing it going under $4

in more and more places and we win to see it continue to go down past that. do you think a lot of the settles in oil prices is -- has been influenced by the leadership that the president showed earlier this summer, releasing those barrels from the strategic oil reserve, engaging other countries to get them to the do the same, making the use of ethanol into the summer but we know there is a lot of different factors that drive things like global oil markets. it is funny there are some folks out there who want you to think it was completely up to the president what the gas prices were when they were going up. and silent now that they have been going back down every single day for 50 days. bottom line, we need to continue pursuing the measurer that under the control of policymakers and the best thing we could do for the long-term is make sure americas have more options through greater fuel efficiency

and greater access to vehicles that don't require gasoline at all so americans don't have to worry about what is happening in some middle eastern capital or a foreign war zone. >> that is for sure. the other obvious issue probably playing a role here with gas prices is inflation. talk about the inflation reduction act. what is the possibility that this will come to be a reality and how will it help? >> well this is great news for so many americans. it does a number of things that are all of which, i think most people think of as common sense. making sure that medicaid is empowered to lower prescription drug costs and making sure we have a fairer tax codes. those companies posting unbelievable profits, i think chevron was at $11 billion just last quarter alone, exxon about $17 billion last quarter alone. they also paid 2%, 3% in taxes last year.

dramatically less than a schoolteacher or a firefighter. one of the things that the inflation reduction act would do is set up a fairer tax code could wr there is at least 15% if you're a billion dollars company. i'm excited about the electric vehicle provisions. because what this will do is reduce the price through tax credits of an electric vehicle. and if you see that lower sticker price and you could afford an ev, you're saving money for every day that you own it. even at lower gas prices, there is still a gas savings for people who are able to fill up on electricity instead of gas. and they ten to require lower maintenance, too. as a matter of fact, this is a big opportunity for some of the politicians who have been criticizing evs for being too expensive, to take a vote for or against making them cheaper. there are also provisions that will help with domestic sourcing of battery components and the supply chain for electric vehicles. so some of the politicians out there saying, ev