actually translate into votes. and what is also interesting, and something to keep an eye on, is there have been some gop candidates like doug mastriano running for governor in pennsylvania and south dakota governor kristi noem who hasn't ruled out a presidential run and both have previously been quite outspoken about restricting access to abortion. but are now sort of changing their aggressive tune and even being let vocal about it. but the bottom line, mika, is that this issue is not going away and kansas made the illustration of what is to come in other states come november. >> all right. "morning joe" reporter daniela pierre bravo. read her report at know your valley.com. it is now the fourth hour of "morning joe." 9:00 a.m. in the east and 6:00 a.m. out west. and we have a lot to get to. including the latest of the fate of brit ye griner as they may be

ready to discuss a prisoner swap. former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul and the executive director of the wnba players association will join us to break down the latest. also ahead, democrats reach an agreement on their economic package helping president biden make good on a major campaign promise. we'll have the latest from the white house. >> that is because, and willie, my gosh, our economy later job numbers have just come out. you talk about a resilient economy, man. it keeps rolling. >> this is an incredible jobs number. the july jobs report is in and much stronger than expected. the u.s. economydded 528,000 jobs last month. with the unemployment rate ticking down to 3.5%. that jobs number notably higher than what we've seen in recent months. economists are expecting gains to slow this month and in months to come. let's go right to nbc news

senior business analyst stephanie ruhle. by my count, this is about twice as many jobs as most analysts expected to be added in july. >> it sure is. for every analyst out there, this is a reminder that covid changes everything. the way we analyze things, the we we predict thingsch this is a huge number. at this point, for private sector jobs, we're above pre-pandemic levels. wages keep going up. and yes, inflation is eating into wages. but if you're trying to make the argument it is all doom and gloom out there and we're on a fast track to a recession, you can't. and when the fed is going to be looking at this, you can expect the one thing they will look to do is probably continue to raise rates. because the balancing act had to play where their trying to slow down the economy, but not tip us into recession, it doesn't look like they're tipping us into anything if so many employers are out there still hiring in such a big way.

>> you said something important that is worth underlining which is now all of the jobs lost in the early days of the pandemic, and there were many of them, have been recovered officially coming off this number. but as we -- you were speaking, stef, we had the wall street numbers up next to you. the dow is down a couple of hundred points. i guess because now the markets are expecting the fed to in fact raise the rates again to slow this down. >> absolutely. and so that has to be forward looking. what is jay powell going to do. inch rates higher and it becomes more expensive to borrow. not just for you and me but for businesses, for businesses looking to grow. for how they finance themselves, so from the market perspective, they're looking ahead to jay powell's next move. but for every day americans, whether you're looking at gas prices, which are now -- which have now gone down for the 51st day in a row, or people out there seeking employment, this is a very good picture. >> yeah, and stef, we've actually again, as willie had

said, we've added more jobs than we lost in the early days of the pandemic. unemployment rate, 3.5%. that is down to pre-pandemic lows. so here is a question. like, what is fuelling this economy? you know, we all hear people saying, oh, you, can't find workers here, you can't find workers there, because of the covid relief package. no, that dried up a long time ago. and as big as the covid relief package was at the beginning of the biden administration, it is not strong enough to fuel this economy. so what is driving this economy? >> listen, joe, for anyone saying people are still living off of all their covid relief, come on. those stimulus checks cleared a long, long time ago. one thing we hear from employees across the country, it is the low wage jobs they can't fill. if the government really wanted to address that, the number one place they could do that would be immigration reform, the

likelihood that that is going to get done is very slim. but you're also seeing a lot of jobs created, remember, around infrastructure. remember the huge infrastructure package that passed. that is creating jobs across the country. we saw during covid a huge explosion in entrepreneurship in new businesses out there. and because so many people could work from home, joe, there is a lot more creativity around jobs that we could do. >> i want to underline something that you said, because when you talk about immigration, when you talk about immigration reform, suddenly everybody goes to both -- they're respective sides and the battle begins. but, and we have a crisis at the southern border, illegal immigration and we have a crisis at the southern border. all of that acknowledged and put to the side, every economist i talk to, whether they're a republican or a democratic economist, if they're a serious economist, they say we've lowered immigration levels.

if you want to take care of the vacancies in, well, whether it is restaurants or a mechanic that mika's family has been going to for 50 years or whatever it is, they can't find employees right now and so much of that has to do with the fact that we've tightened immigration rules so much over the past five years, that it is -- it's tightening up the job market which is lowering the unemployment rate but as you say, making it really hard for small business owners. >> absolutely. because remember the bigger businesses out there, the bigger retailers for example, even the bigger restaurant chains, they could offer more to employees in those lower wage jobs. but a second ago you just mentioned general store. the general store down the street from where i live, right, it is august, they are booming during august.

they closed two weeks ago because they cannot find workers. in previous years, they would be able to take advantage of the visa program and get, you know, younger workers from other countries to come, stay for six months, fill these jobs. they're unable to do that. and that is what is hurting all of these employers. so you said it, while we're explaining, other networks about the crisis at the border and illegal immigration, we addressed in a collaborate way, we could fill a lot of those jobs. >> and again, that is so important. increasing legal immigration, you get the six month visas. it would make a huge difference. but there are, again, it is not amazon suffering because of this. it is not general motors or tesla. it is the family restaurant, it is the entrepreneur who is just starting out, it's the general store owner. they can't get enough workers

right now. and it's causing a real crisis for them. >> so stef, if you could stick around. we want to turn now to the latest on the democrat's reconciliation bill as kyrsten sinema has agreed to back the package clearing the way for a vote this weekend. her decision comes after days of fellow democrats lobbying on the deal. lobbying her on the deal. in a statement last night, the moderate senator said she would come on board after the carried interest rate tax provision was removed and the bill imposed a 15% minimum tax on large corporations after some companies paid little to no taxes after the 2017 tax cup. a new excise tax was added and lawmakers agreed to add funding to combat droughts. the bill also calls for $400 billion in tax reform revenue. nearly $370 billion in energy

security and climate change investments, $300 billion in deficit reduction. nearly $290 billion in drug pricing reform revenue. and $65 billion in affordable care act subsidies. let's bring in congressional reporter for axios, alena treen, with more on how this deal got done. alena, what more could you tell us? she came around, that is great. is this good to go? >> well not quite yet, mika. but this is really the biggest hurdle for democrats getting this done. senator sinema was really not showing her hand on where she was and in the announcement of the deal last night, i know chuck schumer and a lot of democrats really relieved that they could do this and get this passed before they go home for their august recess. the things that are still up in the air now is the ruling from the sent parliamentarian. so she's going through this bill and through all of the provisions to see if they align

with the bird rule which is essentially just a rule that is necessary for any sort of budget reconciliation package. so some things could be changed depending on what she decides and we should know what is happening there in the next few days. they're also going through what we call a vote-a-rama. a lot of senators will have a chance over the weekend to offer an unlimititied amount of amendments. this is something from republican senators who are trying to minimize as much of this bill as possible. so, there could still be some changes and there are people as well on the left, people like bernie sanders who said that sure, he'll vote for this pack beijing but he doesn't think it goes far enough and wants to make some changes as well. but by enlarge, what we're seeing now and having sinema on board with the key crucial different components really shows that they're going to succeed here and it caps off, i have to say, an incredible week

for president biden. this deal is huge. after 18 months of them trying to get in done, originally it was the build back better and now it is the inflation reduct act. it comes off today's incredible job reports that beat by far a lot of analysts' expectations. you have the killed of the al qaeda chief al zawahiri and we saw the pact act and chips act passed and topping off a month or so where the democrats didn't think they would have any legislation wins to go home. so big success for biden here. >> extraordinary week by my measure. stef, that is the political look at this package, this reconciliation package. let's look at it from an economic angle. they're making the case this will reduce inflation and republicans say you don't reduce it by taxing and spending which this bill does some of it but it does bring the deficit down. what does that stand out to you when you look at what is inside of the package. >> overall, this thing is a

great big win. the fact that we're finally going to get that corporate minimum tax, that is huge. the fact that we're taking action around stock buybacks huge and lowering drug prices, impacting what we're spending around droughts, this is going to be major or economy. however, and i have to say this, despite this being very good news for democrats and the countries, you know, this idea that we didn't know -- kyrsten sinema, she wasn't showing her hand. she was. we knew exactly where her hand was. in the pocket of private equity giants. i have to make this point. the fact that the carried interest loophole is -- has been removed from this, that they're not closing it, it such a stain on this huge achievement for democrats. because keeping that loophole in our tax code is truly a giveaway for the richest of the rich and the fact that kyrsten sinema was so insistent on doing it is really a bad look, because it serves absolutely no one in the state of arizona and besides

people across the country, celebrating who need help working families, who need help, they'll be thrilled to see this passed, the only people who are celebrating carried interest last night were private equity billionaires on mega yachts in the mediterranean. it is crazy. and you could talk to people on both sides of the aisle who say i can't believe this happened again. >> it is insane, stef. the system has rigged for them. warren buffett has been saying it for at least a decade. >> yeah. >> that this allows some of the richest people in america who make money by pushing paper, or wiring numbers, they will pay a lower income tax rate then their clerical workers, secretaries, other people. it is really outrageous. stephanie ruhle, thank you so much. we'll be watching you talk about this a lot tonight in the 11th hour. and you could see that

weeknights at 11:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. thanks so much for being with us. i'm curious about the politics of this bill. you look at the numbers, we've been showing them all morning, most of the main items here are extraordinarily successful. do we think there is going to be any -- any break in the republican ranks or will all 50 republican senators vote against this package? >> i'd say about 99% sure with the small 1 percentage but i think i should say 100% that no republican senators would vote for this. they've been in lockstep against this bill. as they keep using it as an excuse to keep talking about ip flation and the economy. but they privately they know this is a huge success for democrats. and so i don't expect any senate republicans to vote for this and similarly in the house. no house republicans really expected to vote for this either. they see this as a democratic only bill. they're trying to say it doesn't

reduce inflation, even though it shows that it is not going to be adding money to the deficit. so they're going to use this to message against them even though it is really a huge success for democrats. >> alena treen, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. willie. let's bring in nbc news correspondent peter alexander. what is the white house saying today about the pros pecks for the deal. nothing is done yet. but chuck schumer believes he has the 50 votes. >> reporter: well you're exactly right. the white house feeling good right now as alena just indicated with this soon to be significant achievement passed. assuming the parliamentarian is okay with everything here. the white house, we heard from the president late yesterday evening after kyrsten sinema spoke out saying this is another critical step. he said he was calling on the senate to pass it in his words as soon as possible. but notably, they say this is primarily as is in its own name about reducing inflation.

it is going to help people save those cost of living, the dollars their spending, saving money on prescription drug and health premiums but it also includes the largest investment ever in combatting climate change and of course in reducing the deficit. but really, willie, this is a punctuation mark for this president. this is been his number one priority from the very beginning. it is shrunken down from the beginning but they've been working on it for 18 months and it means when white house officials think americans will start to calcify in their opinions in which way they are leaning in the month of august, they have a lot to run on going forward. the infrastructure deal was bipartisan. chips, that's the semiconductors having more of the production of them here in the united states, the president was likely to be signing that next week. gun restrictions, they passed as well. to say nothing of the supreme court justice that the president got the pact act as we talked

about for veterans. and now this, the white house is feeling very good in spite of a lot of the political head winds that we focus on that historically high inflation. those gas prices that are high but are now starting to come down. and of course, the president's bad approval ratings, willie. >> it is worth pointing out, everything you laid out was done on a bipartisan basis for all of the complaints about congress. there is some stuff going done here. peter stay with us. we want to get reporting on the white house to bring brittney griner home after she was sentenced yesterday to nine years. there is talk of a potential prisoner swap. we'll also speak with michael mcfaul and the executive director of the women's national basketball players association. that is all when we come right back on "morning joe."

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we've all seen the sentencing conviction of brittney griner to nine years in principle and that further compounds thein just to her and her wrongful detention. it puts our concern on the russian legal system and the russian government use of wrongful detentions to advance its own agenda using individuals as political pawns. the same goes for paul whelan. we put forward as you know a substantial proposal that russia should engage with us on. and what foreign minister lavrov said this morning and said publicly is that they are prepared to engage through channels we've established to do just that. and we'll be pursuing that. >> that was secretary of state antoine blinken addressing a

international summit in cambodia, confirming the u.s. and russia are ready to discuss a prisoner exchange to free wnba star brittney griner and another detained american paul whelan. whelan was arrested in russia in 2018 on charges of spying. that he and his family absolutely deny. he was convicted and sentenced to 16 years in prison back in 2020. let's bring back nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander. peter, what are you hearing from the white house on efforts to bring brittney griner home? >> reporter: you know, mika, what was most striking to me is the real pressure that the white house has been facing and as a reaction to that, the president's comments on this, his statement that was released yesterday, literally came out within five minutes of the announcement that the russian court had find brittney griner guilty and the sentence would be nine years, an extraordinarily

long sentence for what was a minor crime. 99% of these crimes as they are in russia are convicted. it is not a real court system the way that we view it. it was another reminder that russia has wrongfully detained griner. he called on her to be released immediately. so the back and forth obviously from the u.s. that we know has been to have being and paul whelan, that former u.s. marine come home in exchange for a convicted arms trafficker, a man by the name of victor bout who was on the back end of a 25-year sentence. but the russians have said that they want to add another individual to that. they want to have a convicted murderer right now, a spy who was convicted of murder and being held in germany. and we heard from john kirby, one of the national security officials here telling me that this was in bad faith. he said it is not a serious counter offer. he said in effect this was an effort to try to muddy up the waters in this effort.

the good news, perhaps, here is that sergey lavrov, the foreign minister for russia said yesterday that they were open to begin the engagement process now that the legal proceedings have concluded. the conversations i've had with national security officials, they are not optimistic that this is going to happen overnight. but they are certainly pushing hard to try to make it happen. as you heard again from tony blinken, who has been very much at the top of this effort here, they believe this ome compounds the awful experience she's had there. the u.s. believes she never should have been detained in the first place. >> in a moment we'll bring in michael mcfaul. but first we have the executive director of the women's national basketball players association, terry jacks. thanks for being with us this morning. we expected this. i think you expected a long prison sentence to be handed down to brittney griner. but what do you make of the flashes now of negotiations to bring her home, maybe at a steep

price to release some actual criminals from american jails to bring her home. but are you hopeful that brittney griner will be released? >> of course i'm hopeful. i'm always hopeful. and let me start off by saying thank you for having me on the show this morning. the more that we talk about that, about this case, the more that we raise awareness and all of that is important. of course, we knew this day was coming from the moment we heard the charges, the 99% conviction rate, and the possible sentence from that moment, we knew what was likely to happen. and going into yesterday, we had 167 days at that point to prepare. as much as we knew that the day was coming, and that had to come so that we could continue to see forward movement, as much as we knew that and tried to prepare, we were not prepared for this. certainly not prepared for this.

hearing the updates that there are continued conversations about getting a deal done and getting b.g. home, absolutely that makes us hopeful. that is what our expectation is. and so we're just waiting. whether or not it will be overnight, a rapid release, i don't know. but, again, that is our expectation. britney has endured so much. too much. and i've been saying that i choose my words carefully and so i listen very intently to this administration. and their words are, you know, are pretty precise. she and paul whelan, let's not forget paul whel an, they are wrongfully detained. this needs to end. this needs to end. >> and we should say, terry, the reason this stayed front and center is in large part of because of efforts offa an the women's basketball community as

well. keeping the pressure on. as you've been talking, we've been showing some images of brittney griner, standing in a cage in a courtroom. she was eloquent speaking through the bars of that cage yesterday. and make a plea. what do you know about how she's holding up just on a human level. it was six months since she was arrested at that airport. i know you've been in contact with her wife. how is britney doing? >> well, what we've heard all along is that she's doing about as well as could be expected. and we know what that is code for. that this is tough. that this is a struggle. and yes, we saw her yesterday and every time i see images of b.g., i lean in and try to read her face and i listen to her words. i heard a voice that was quivering, that was shaking and yet she was as poised as could be, as composed as could be. she was strong. she spoke from the heart. and with so much emotion.

and with so much truth. and yet it did not seem that this court heard that or, you know, felt the need to provide the ness compassion and mercy that we were all looking for and hoping for. but here is where we are. we press on. her legal team will do what it needs to do so finish out this process. to bring forth an appeal and the diplomats, secretary blinken, and this president, they know we're counting on them and thank you for recognizing the efforts of the women of the w. i have the privilege of being in this job six years and every season it has been a test. it has been a test for my members and they meet that test. and this one will be no different. every year you see w players standing up to right socialin justice. they stand up and champion the rights of others. and now this one is so close to

home. it is one of their own. and so you could imagine the strength that they are drawing from. and just the allies and the organizations and the networks that have rallied around us. they are amazing. i have a privilege to serve in this position. they are amazing so thank you for recognizing them. and i just want to speak it and put it out there in the universe, that b.g. may feel our embrace for her. just hold on b.g. >> absolutely. the executive director of the women's national basketball players association, terry jackson, so well put. thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you. all right. le's bring in now former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul and the director of the institute of studies at stanford and an international affairs analyst. so, mr. ambassador, obviously the russians know that this is politically important for joe

biden to be seen aggressively trying to get brittney griner home and by extension now paul whelan. at the same time, their cost they demand in return is high and it appears that it just keeps getting higher. what is your recommendation to the white house on these negotiations? >> i think they should do the deal. mr. putin has wanted victor bout back for literally decades now. even when i was ambassador eight years ago, they were asking to get him back. remember, look at his -- wikipedia page and you'll see that he's an intelligence officer, a very close to them. putin remembers a kgb officer. they want to get their comrade back. my only plea would be add one more american to it. mark vogle was indicted and he got a 14 year sentence for the same crime alleged crime that brittney griner did.

get them all back. >> well, and perhaps they get the third american back for the second russian that we now hear the russians may be adding to the mix, right? >> yeah, that is -- victor bout is a really bad guy. crassicoff is his name. he's a assassin. he killed an innocent chechen in berlin in 2019. that feels to me to be a bridge too far. i don't actually think the russians are serious about it. this is a classic russian tactic. right at the end of the deal, add something extraordinary. they did that with us on an arms controlled deal, the new start treaty for instance. victor bout, for trade, one criminal, for three innocent americans, i think that is a really good deal. >> we'll see if the kremlin

agrees. let's talk about the war in russia. or the war in ukraine right now. we've seen intelligence reports coming out of britain that russia may be facing a bit of exhaustion, whether you look at the weapons, whether you look at the troops. what is your latest, what are you hearing on the ground in your calls and your reporting? >> so i would say a couple of things. i think exhaustion is there. think i sanctions are beginning to work. it is going to take many more months. you don't measure sanctions impacted in weeks and months but often times years. and it is having an impact. and so you see two things on the battlefield. one, putin is focused on taking donbas. that is where all of his energy is. and two, the ukrainians are focus on taking a city called kherson in the southch that is one of the first cities that she

seized an the ukrainian strategy is launch this counter offensive now to take back territory they've lost this year for fear that maybe after putin takes donbas, they're worried that the west will support him on that. and right now all of the emphasize is on the south and putin's emphasis is in the east. >> peter alexander, we want to turn back to you for a moment. there is a development this morning. with another country. the white house summoned china's ambassador to condemn beijing's escalating actions against taiwan and reiterate the u.s. does not want a crisis in the region. this comes after house speaker nancy pelosi's visit to the island nation that heightened the tensions this week so to say the least. what happened here. >> well it happened yesterday as we understand it from folks at the national security council for the white house. that they summoned to the white house the ambassador from china.

not just to reiterate they don't want to be a crisis but to condemn these provocative actions by china in the last several days, the live fire tests taking place in the areas, waters that surround taiwan right now. the u.s. has repeatedly said this is their desire to try to de-escalate the situation and they want to avoid any miscommunication when temper as peer to flare, certainly on the chinese side. nick burns had been summoned and called in over there on the other end of the world after nance's visit as well. there is some other news on this front. right now there is a carrier strike group, an aircraft carrier strike group the ronald reagan that had been deployed to the south china sea and they've extended time period that it will stay there. but they have delayed an icbm, a missile test that they were

going to be focused on in the near future as an effort to try to de-escalate the situation right now. but it does really underscore the complexities and the complication of this recent trip by nancy pelosi. she went there. and the white house publicly stood by her saying as house speaker she has a right to do whatever she wants. privately they were concerned that the timing of this, that it lacks a strategy, not that it was right or wrong but only complicate issues right now and it is clear as evidenced by what we've witnessed in china they want to make sure that is communicated to the chinese not to go any further. >> peter alexander covering a lot of ground for us this morning from the white house. thank you so much. ambassador mcfaul, interested to hear your perspective as a former ambassador yourself on what all of this diplomatic back and forth means. obviously china giving the appearance of taking great aoffense to speaker pelosi's visit and saying we're going cut

off our talks and negotiations with the united states about defense and climate change, about the economy. so what is china up to exactly here? >> i think it is a big over reaction frankly. it is seems like immature foreign policy. they're hurting their own interests by the way and the interests of global community by cutting off ties on all -- with us, conversations with us on all kinds of global issues. it feels like an overreaction to me. i hope it is temporary. there has been no change in u.s. policy. i think people need to understand that there has been absolutely no change in our policy towards taiwan. and i think the biden administration is trying to say everybody just calm down, let's get back to the old status quo. >> all right. former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul. thank you very much for being on this morning. and up next, the markets have just opened after a monster jobs report. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin will

be here to break down the number and why the markets might not like it. andrew also wanted to talk about this headline, quote, visa and mastercard suspend payments for ad purchases on porn hub amid controversy. he will have to explain to us what is going on here. next on "morning joe."

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a clearchoice day changes every day. schedule a free consultation. joining now us, the co-anchor of squawk box, andrew ross sorkin. let's talk about the jobs report, 528,000 jobs added to the economy in the month of july. the unemployment rate at 3.5%. lowest in about half a century. are you surprised the numbers were this big? >> i think everyone was surprised that the numbers were this big. but what i think it really sends the signal about is this is not your father's recession. we've been talking for past several weeks on this program about are we in a recession. we had those back-to-back gdp numbers that seemed to demonstrate we're in a recession. there seems to be a debate about the sem antics. and the white house said this is not a recession, look at the jobs numbers. now from a political perspective, you could look at the job numbers and say, wow, that is a very, very strong

economy. you're looking at now unemployment in this country down to 3.5%. having said that, if you go from the white house to the federal reserve building in washington, there is a different perspective. which is, is this economy running too hot again. so all of a sudden you see the stock market today fall on this news. kind of perverse. you think if things were better, the economy would -- the marks would go up. well they're going down because the view now is that if the federal reserve was going to take its -- its foot off the neck of the economy before because things were at sort of neutralized, now they might have to put that foot back on the economy if you will, on the neck of the economy, to slow things down once again and that is what is making the stock market nervous this morning. >> so, andrew, help me out, help me understand the extraordinary resilience of this economy. i mean, i am -- i remain a conservative who plans for the

worst, hopes for the best. and mika will tell you, always thinks that the next recession is just around the corner and i keep seeing signs that suggest we might be moving that way. but all i see is -- is one strong jobs number after another. and now unemployment numbers at pre-pandemic lows. what is fuelling -- because it is not -- i know politics on right may say, oh, this stimulus plan was too big. we've all seen stimulus plans, they didn't get that much bang for their buck. in fuelling this economy. something else is going on. the u.s. economy way too large to be that impacted by a stimulus plan. what is going on? >> i think there is a supply and demand issue, which with we're coming out pandemic and i don't think we've ever experienced anything like this. -n terms of what that did to the supply chain and how it changed

the perceptions of what it means to be in a strong or weak economy. and as a result, here we are. and you're starting to see in a very good way inflation may, may be starting to ease. by the way. >> elon musk saying last night at the tesla annual meeting there that he believes inflation is coming down. but commodity costs that had risen so many are starting to come down and that is because you're starting to see some of the supply get better. as the supply gets better that could boost the economy in a good way and may mean there are more demand for jobs on the other end. so again, i think you have to throw out some of the economic tex books of your because i hate to say we're in a new paradigm. but it is very different than what we've seen in historical recessions. >> so now let's get to the story about visa and mastercard. what is going on there? >> so, i would argue to you this the most important business

story of the week, month and we'll see whether it is of the year. visa and mastercard have been accused of effectively not child pornography themselves, but enabling child pornography and sex trafficking on sites like porn hub and other sites like that on the internet. a judge had a ruling and a decision late last week about this, that effectively implicated mastercard and visa. now mastercard and visa historically have taken the position that they are the equivalent of the greyhound bus, the train tracks and they don't get involved in looking at which merchants their in business with and what those merchants do. this decision both by the judge and then their reaction to it this week, which is to say we're actually going to stop doing business with these folks in a very, very meaningful way.

i think opens up a sort of a new conversation about the role that financial services firms are going to be taking in regard to merchants to illegal behavior, to i don't want to say immore behavior but i think it will change the dynamic of that conversation and you're going to start to see another political debate over how banks and financial services firms are involved in these very controversial topics in our country. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. and up next, a remarkable story about compassion. writer david french will join us with his powerful new piece about a moment of grace in a season of pain. "morning joe" will be right back. flowers are fighters. that's why the alzheimer's association

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a new piece in "the atlantic" attempts to cut through all of the anger and pain amid the nation's current political divide, with a true tale of grace and compassion. contributing writer david french writes about his wife, nancy, a survivor of child sexual abuse, who recently spoke at a christian college. he describes the stunning moment when a man in the audience asked her a question that appeared to be an attack. french writes, quote, i had a hard time hearing what he said, but he sounded oddly aggressive. nancy then leaned into the microphone and spoke directly to the questioner. sorry, did you just ask me if i love or merely tolerate the vacation bible schoolteacher who molested me as a kid? yes, he responded, that's exactly what he had asked.

nancy left the stage and burst into tears in the bathroom, where some other women from the audience joined her to try to comfort her. nancy then decided to return to the stage, and the same man took the mic again. french writes, quote, he paused for a moment, and then he revealed he was a victim of abuse and he was struggling with how to read scripture that admonished christians. nancy responded beautifully. she didn't just forgive him, she honored him. and she turned to the crowd and told them that they weren't just hurting people in this room, they were hurting people across the church, victims of abuse at every level of christian ministry. a moment that had first seemed profane and tainted by malice

and cruelty turned sacred, enriched by love and compassion. >> let's bring in david french right now. david, i read this story. it was so deeply moving and it was such a contrast to what we hear on cable news, talk shows and podcasts, the sort of christian nationalism that redefines jesus' ministry, guns and gays and personal insults, and instead love, grace and mercy. what a moving moment. tell us why you wrote the piece. >> i wrote the piece, i was sitting right there in the audience when i saw it happen and the irony is the entire subject of nancy's talk, my wife's talk, was loving your enemies, where she told a story about how there's this woman online who had trolled me relentlessly for years, but in

the middle of the early stage of the pandemic had indicated that she was in distress, that she was having trouble getting food. and she tweeted that out, and nancy reached out to her and worked with some other folks to get her all the food she needed, and since that time that person who had attacked me so much online has become a friend. and so she was telling that story and it was a touching, feel-good story, everyone loved it, and then that question came. that's why it seemed so shocking. there seemed to be such aggression behind it. she was particularly actually nervous about that speech because the last time she visit add christian college someone had come up to her and confronted her and got in her face very directly. so it hit her really hard. but she had the courage to go back on the stage after she was so taken aback by the question that she couldn't continue. she had the courage to go back on the stage and then consent to the microphone going back to the very person who, we thought, had

directly attacked her before, and it turned out that this wasn't a malicious person, it was a person dealing with profound pain in his own life. and what i found online is that a lot of things that present as sort of malice or anger are often really evidence of pain and brokenness. and it's sometimes hard to tell the difference, to be honest, because we know there are malicious people, but there are an awful lot of people who are suffering, and it's sometimes hard to tell the difference. >> i will say through the years i've moved a decade ago from being disturbed and upset by trolls to feeling really sorry for them, feeling sympathy for them. and, again, i want to touch on why your wife was talking about loving your enemies for people that watch these phonies, these

televangelists. the tenet of christianity is loving your neighbors and jesus saying, forgive your enemies. if you only love those who love you, how are you any better than everybody else? love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you. again, i think that's a message that most people don't understand, one of the central tenets of jesus' teaching. i remember when nancy pelosi said she prays for donald trump, he said, no, you don't, i don't believe that. anybody that's read the new testament, the sermon on the mount, knows that's what do. >> that's exactly right and that's why she was invited to speak. it was the leaders of this college saying, we want to teach these christian young people about this value of loving your enemies and blessing those who persecute you, because there's a battle on for the hearts of young christians between

scripture and then this new right political culture that says punch back twice as hard, that is elevating vindictiveness. so the leaders of this christian college were, to their credit, saying, no, no, this is the way. and then an incident happens in the speech that demonstrates all of that in real time right in front of everyone. and i had to write about it, because it was one of the most powerful things that i've ever seen, and all credit goes to nancy because she was the one who responded. i'm just the person who wrote down what happened. >> david, it's such a great piece and it affirms, for me as i read it, and i think this is true and i'm curious what you think, which is that most people are good. it sounds like a simple thing to say. but we live in this world online and sometimes in certain corners of the media where it's always

attack mode and how mean can you be, and there's perceived strength in being a jerk. but when you actually scratch the surface just a little bit, get one step past that tweet, you find that we have so much in common. many people who behave that way are just wounded and need a little reaching out. >> yeah, that's exactly right. and i don't want to say that everybody is like that online. we all know there are some people who are malicious, but we presume, we presume when we see something we don't like or encounter somebody who says something in a way that hurts us or grates on us, we presume malice. that's what i'm saying we cannot do. we cannot make that presumption. there are good reasons to give people a second chance, to freely offer forgiveness when we're hurt, and i think that that's the message that i wanted to convey in the piece, was that we can't make those presumptions of evil, we can't make those presumptions of malice. an awful lot of people, they don't know how to present

themselves online, for example, or maybe they're struggling in such a way and they don't really know how to ask the tough questions. and we can't presume that people who don't talk for a living know specifically how to express what they think and feel and believe in the best possible way. so that defaults toward grace, i think, and it's absolutely urgent in this place and time. especially for those of us who spend a lot of time on line, it's easy for us to get hardened and angry and i think that's the wrong course. >> david french -- >> what a wonderful way to end the week. >> -- it's wonderful, thank you so much. and your piece is online for "the atlantic." mika, i know willie, along with me and our entire audience, deeply moved by your words about your mom. thank you so much for sharing those with us. >> thank you. yeah, i'm filled with gratitude. so thank you very much. that does it for us this morning and this week.

jose diaz ba lard picks up did coverage right now. >> i'm live from las vegas at the national association of black and hispanic journalist convention. we begin this morning with breaking news, a brand new much better than expected jobs report, showing the economy added over half a million jobs in july, 528,000. the u.s. labor secretary marty walsh, will join us to discuss the state of the economy. on capitol hill, a bill that could have major implications across the country as democrats have cleared a path for sweeping legislation now that senator kyrsten sinema has agreed to the deal. california center alex padilla will discuss where this goes next. china sanctions nancy pelosi over her visit to taiwan.