nominated actress and activists. watch the culture is latina, tomorrow at 10 pm eastern on msnbc and streaming on peacock. thanks for watching the katie fang show, i'll be watching tomorrow morning, don't forget to follow us on social media, twitter, instagram, facebook and tiktok. ali velshi is on the latest installment of multi across america. america. good morning to you, it is saturday august six. i'm ali velshi back on the road with a special edition of velshi our cross, america post for all of mama. this week and i mean tuscaloosa, alabama, a state that has been without safe and legal abortion care since the supreme overturned roe v. wade 43 days ago. state officials to move quickly the ban abortion. within hours of the supreme court's ruling. alabama and post a total abortion ban, not only makes

exceptions for the life and health of the woman. and even that i have learned is a highly subjective matter. hundreds of appointments across the state were canceled immediately. now this man the new status quo here ever since. alabama's laws been called the most restrictive abortion ban in the nation. and makes providing abortions a class a felony, punishable by up to 99 years in prison. on top of that, providing having access that care could also be a crime and it's not clear where she might go to obtain reproductive health care, and women who are pregnant here worry that any miscarriage can make them a criminal suspect. and a week since roe, fell all of alabama's neighboring states have been acting their old man making virtually inaccessible across the entire south east region of the united states. people in alabama will likely have to travel hundreds of

miles across multiple states in some cases, to get a safe and legal abortion. i have come here, to speak with the medical professionals, advocates and others who have been most affected by alabama's years-long hostility towards abortion. i will share with you my conversations with them later on in the show. they are very interesting. what is happening here is emblematic of the radical change in reproductive health care that is continuing to unfold across this nation. the situation is so confusing in some states, no law is changing by the day. on monday morning, earlier this week, abortion was illegal in the state of michigan. a court order issued at noon, the same day, a lot for local county prosecutors to start and forcing the states pre roe abortion ban at their discretion. this is a 1930s law. before the day was done, another judge issued another order that blocked the law from taking effect entirely. and a lot abortion providers to

presume their work. this all happened on monday in michigan. a similar but more drawn out situation has been unfolding over the past six-week in louisiana. about 2000 west of here. clinics were forced to stop providing abortions again, after a court order allowed the states trigger bound to go on to effect for the third time since late june. state courts have blocked the law twice before. their challenges are continuing says possible that abortion clinics will be allowed to operate in louisiana again. illegal back and forth this caused a lot of uncertainty, making it a nightmare for health care providers. as well as those seeking abortion but what is going on, and any given minute or hour of the day. meanwhile, even more states are taking action throughout the law abortion. just last, night indiana became the first day to passed a post-roe abortion ban. indiana's new law allows for-limited exceptions for cases of rape, incest, lethal fetal abnormalities and medical emergencies. those exceptions were

hard-fought and both chambers of the state legislators and resulted in many hours of debate over the past few weeks. even among the states republican members. nevertheless, the governor eric hopefully cited into law minutes after it was passed last night. it is expected to go into effect on september the 15th. the outlook for reproductive rights in america is bleak. there is no quick remedy for the situation that could undo what the supreme court has done. there is one glimmer of hope this week, on tuesday, abortion rights supporters earned a major and unexpected victory in the state of kansas. of voters overwhelming and chose to protect abortion rights when they returned to their republican proposed to the states constitution and according to the secretary of state of kansas, this year's primary easily had a higher turnouts and at the other primary in the state's history. which reaffirms that abortion rights remain popular among the general population.

and that americans are galvanized by the issue, ahead of midterms this -- joining me now is 90, northam the president and ceo of the center of reproductive rights. several years ago, her organization brought a lawsuit that eventually led to the kansas state supreme court ruling. at the kansas state constitution granted protections for abortion rights. nancy, get the ceo thank you for being with us. you and i have not toxins tuesday night. i want to get your take on it because i was speaking with people on the no side of that. that referendum, that the people wanted to preserve abortion rights in kansas. and even they were surprised by the scope of that victory. >> it is huge news would happen in kansas on tuesday. it is so important to take this and, that when their voters themselves in a conservative state, think about the question of what they want. they said we want our rights continue to be protected in our

constitution. and as you pointed, out we won this case in kansas because a supreme court said in kansas that because of its constitutional protection for actual rights includes personal autonomy. lively autonomy and thus the rights -- and to end the pregnancy and so this is what kansas came up so strongly to say is no we don't want our rights taken away. and to see that against indiana did last night, it's just unacceptable and when people want to make these decisions for themselves. and your politicians playing politics with their lives is just shameful. >> nancy, everything i learned about abortion, you know you probably forgot a lot about it. and there's a value going around the country because and i showed up in alabama yesterday, one thing i learned is that unlike kansas where the, law thanks a lot of work you

have done it has been protected. the referendum was about a write being taken away. that's not the case in alabama. the population of alabama early voting population here is speaking hostile to wards abortion rights. that it becomes harder for the folks here to see our would happen in kansas could work for them. there is a valid question that will be on the election in michigan in november. it might give michigan constitutional protections for abortion rights. in places like alabama, in the southeast of the united states, it looks like a very long journey. ks like a very lon journe y. well i think that's right, i am so glad we'll have providers and people in health care on later this afternoon today to talk about in your show. just with that situation is because yes, it's true that it's really tough and i say like alabama. all of a sudden, people are able to hear what is actually happening with the completely banning abortion.

which is not the case before the supreme court overturned roe v. wade and alabama became a place where you cannot get access to services. that wasn't true right, before the june decision. i think all of this will continue to change the dynamic, and it's ultimately we do need to have nationwide protection. through action for congress with women's health protection act. making sure that everyone has the same rate, every single state. >> nancy, one of the takeaways from the conversation with the folks there, and i will continue the conversations today. was that they, said the one thing they don't want people to do who have been supporting abortion rights with their work and their resources. the money and political support is to give up on some of these states like alabama. where it seems so hopeless and the laws and seems so draconian and people say and maybe i

should just direct my money or my resources to a place where those threats exist. and it will not be the case with alabama or mississippi or places like that. and we need testify just like somebody else does. >> well i think that's, right i think in every state in the united states, there has to be really deep work at the state level, to make sure that again the stories of the impacts of the circling forward, the hard work of lifting up and building support for abortion rights. the reality is -- it's the same question. people want to make these decisions for themselves. it's a health care decision, it's a private decision, it's a life decision. and so yes no state should be a man in and every state should be strong advocacy. because it's just a disaster for people and have to either

travel, and turn to other means. >> or keep up with the hour to, our day today changes. and this is remarkably difficult for people who find themselves pregnant. and hadn't done all of this reading in on it because it did not think they needed to. now they are surprised by this constantly changing laws. nancy, thanks for the work you do and nancy is the president and ceo of the center for reproductive rights. still ahead democrats are inching closer to a legislative win. a sweeping bill that addresses the charred vector of key issues. climate, health care and taxes. standing by him joined by senator bob casey, also the situation could get very serious very quickly. between the world's two largest superpowers, the united states and china. and plus, imagine the day the united states supreme court and your own state government decided together, to make your job as a health care provider a class a felony.

that's what's happening all across red state america. when roe fell about the life and death consequences of that decision, ran especially deep in the south. my conversation was six alabama residents whose lives and livelihood are on the line and post for all obama is coming up. they want to prosecute someone, they have to find someone that they can prosecute in order to make sure that this is effective. >> of our conversations and new york in california, they're like a war surely will not be prosecuted. you know that's a crazy law thing, i'm like okay we are in alabama. you are too optimistic. you are too optimistic hi, my name is cherrie. i'm 76 and i live on the oregon coast. my husband, sam, we've been married 53 years. we love to walk on the beach. i have two daughters and then two granddaughters. i noticed that memories were not there like they were when i was much younger. since taking prevagen, my memory has gotten better

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closer to celebrating a major's legislative win as a premier to vote on a sweeping economic bill that will address climate health care and access.

following negotiations, and a law on hold -- and and that's been a long time coming this is that aeration of the build back better vote and the democrats couldn't be their last, year just another version of it. here is what's in it, on health care the bill allows medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices, starting in 2023 which will lower costs for beneficiaries. wildly, medicare has been unable to do this simple things that other nations have been able to do to keep prescription drug costs lower. it also comes out of pocket prescription cost at $2,000 per year. on the climate, the bills that this had three engine and 69 billion dollars to increase energy security and fight climate change. the fans up the ramp up production of clean energy technologies, such as donor powerless and winter binds. the bill creates incentives for americans to buy energy efficient appliances,

especially for lower income households and disadvantaged communities. and includes nine billion dollars towards retrofitting homes to make them more energy efficient. it also gives americans up to $4,000 in tax credits. if they buy used electric vehicles or plug in hybrids. on the economy, -- and industries including manufacturing and renewable energies, it's expected to generate $912,000 per year over the next decade -- >> not the same bill that we are talking about last year, what's really in. it in order to secure senator sinema's approval, party leaders dropped tax provisions, including one that wouldn't close the carry interest half level. --

>> let's talk about this bill, game-changer for the nation oh is so monumental, given that we are talking for so many months about the more expensive predecessor, a build back better built? >> and i think if you start with the climate change, those alone, are a game-changer because of this legislation. we will be able to reduce -- by 40%, by 2030. we have goals on 2030 and push back against it. and then 2050, but to have that kind of production and emissions, in such a short timeframe, will be a really substantial for the american people. so that is one with then a prescription drug position as

you mentioned, it has at least two things. and a dozen number of things and first of, all empowers and medicare and lower the prices. it caps medicare benefits out of pocket at $2,000 a year. so these are initiatives that people have been working on for years. we will be able to do this in one built. when you look at it overall, it lower costs for families when it comes to energy and prescription drugs. then it also reduces the threat of climate change while reducing the deficit all in one bill. no republicans have launched a series of attacks on the bill claiming that it is going to raise taxes for the middle class. tell me about those allegations and what the explanation is for them? >> well, everybody knows those allegations are false because republicans are worried about two things. they are worried that the american people who have been cut out of these deals because

powerful it engines to usually get their way, they know that the big companies, whether they're big drug companies, or major corporations, are not going to get away this time. republicans are worried about that because they are their big donors. the second thing that they are worried about i think is the contract. when they have their majority they ran through a tax bill, they have to ramp up the debt because they wanted to give permanent tax relief to big companies and give away the sort of rich people. that's what they do with their majority. with our majority we are lowering pressure description drug costs, pushing back a clementine, there's a rescue plan we hope to get our schools open and give families a huge benefit with the child tax credit. that's what we do with our majority they do something different. >> you know, a lot of americans are gonna hear the stuff in they're gonna think about where they will benefit, maybe retrofitting their home, maybe buying a used car. the cost of car has gone up so

the idea that there is a credit for buying used tvs or hybrid vehicles, but the prescription drug thing maybe the single biggest thing in here that people are going to feel. this has been a ridiculous situation we have had in the united states where canada can you negotiate the price of its drugs, the uk can negotiate a private strikes, but medicare has not been able. to >> your right people of infighting themselves for years. we're finally gonna have a breakthrough on that. it will start in 2023 where we will start with the ten high cost drugs that will be the subject of negotiation. that number will go to 20 a few years later. so this is a huge breakthrough. i will give you an example. just in pennsylvania, ali, in pennsylvania more than 73,000 medicare beneficiaries in more than $2,000 a year, out of pocket. just imagine. that many people in one state paying more than $2,000. so it is a great break but i also mentioned the affordable

care act subsidy. that will be -- and that is great for people who gain the value of having insurance but would be able to, will be knocked off of the insurance that they have. >> senator, let's talk. i hear reaching about abortion in alabama. this is a complicated issue for the foes of abortion rights in this country, they fall into a couple of categories. some people who because of their faith or their history or beliefs, don't like the idea of abortion. and some who are bad faith actors, and i don't really know what motivates them. you have come out and in support of federal portion rights protections, but that is something that you evolved into. can you tell me a little bit about the? >> well, ali, when you look at the results in kansas i think it shows where most americans are. kind of across the board. which is, we have reached a point in the debate on this issue about whether or not you want to be in favor of policy

that bans abortion, and in a lot of streets it will be almost a complete ban, or whether you don't do that. and i think that is kind of the question that so many americans are faced with. and as the legislature, that is the kind of question that i was faced with. do you want to support a fall policy where most abortions, because of the decision then also because of republicans they are not satisfied with just a supreme court decision. they want to go further. they are official position known for legislation would impose a nationwide band. so doesn't matter what state you live in, they want to impose that ban on the whole country. i think most americans are the overwhelming percentage of americans in pennsylvania don't want to ban on abortion like they are contemplating. so i think that is what is not only -- for me but is the question of most americans pace. >> senator, good to see you.

thank you for joining us this morning. democratic senator bob casey of pennsylvania. all right, coming up, the rich get richer with a little help from arizona senator kirsten sinema. but first, doctors and staff on what used to be abortion clinics in the south are still trying to help patients with the abortion bans are as vague as they are onerous. when we come back, you're gonna hear stories directly from post roe alabama, where i can almost guarantee things are worse than you realize. guarantee things are worse tha you realize. but i'm afraid oversight i'm going to see somebody just like i have been seeing in the two years and so been here, who needs my help and i'm gonna help them. and then the state is going to decide that i have committed a crime for helping them. e for helping them e for helping them we switched to tide hygenic clean free. it's gentle on her skin and out-cleans our old free detergent. tide hygenic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin. (fisher investments) it's easy to think that all money managers tide hygenic clean free. are pretty much the same,

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off in the middle of the seat. abortionists disintegrated in an instant and the damage multiplying. alabama swiftly banned abortions with u.s. actions, right after the court decision. critics have been forced to turn away hundreds of patients, and anyone who performs an abortion faces up to 99 years in person. that is unfathomable on a town, but i have been speaking with abortion providers, and advocates here in alabama, and they tell me the situation is much much worse than jail time. the consequences are cool and deliberate. i sat down with a group of abortion providers, doctors, activists, and a local lawmaker, all of whom are directly affected by this blue states abortion ban and are fighting to protect reproduction rights. >> we still have patients calling our clinic, which has been shut down for six weeks now wanting to know where they can go. and we have to tell them, these are the states can go to but we can't give like a specific

referral to a provider. >> let's talk about cases where someone is unnecessarily seeking an abortion but, women have medical issues during pregnancy. and you are worried that women who might be having miscarriages arbery that they are going to fall into this legal system somehow. how does that play out? >> i see the alabama legislature and other state legislatures going towards the criminalization of michelin carriage in general. because if you can't prove that you didn't take matt oppressed when one of the abortion drugs, then there is no way to prove your innocence because there's no testa can tell anyone of you together not. so every miscarriage is going to be investigated. >> but we are talking about across a felony. this isn't a parking ticket. those could permanently alter someone's life. and i think one of the common

misconceptions about human life protection acts in alabama is that it only applies to doctors and providers. it actually applies to anybody. so if you give your daughter an abortion inducing drug or substance, not even a drug, but a substance that could potentially complicated pregnancy and ultimately and pregnancy, you could be charged with a class a felony. it also criminalizes the intent. when you start getting into intent, that really lowers the standard on what sort of conversations lead to a particular outcome. it also increases the likelihood that you could be caught up in an otherwise normal conversation with someone about what their options are, and ultimately end up being investigated and arrested. just by a show of hands, who here feels the effect of this chill that we are talking about? okay, pretty clear. >> every time that i hear

abortion ban, i hear a ban on your bodily sovereignty. for example, i cannot for somebody to have a c-section because their baby is in trouble. i have actually had to watch during the labor process, a baby die in labor, because the patient did not want a c-section. i cannot force her to have a surgery that she does not consent to. that is not my call. and yet we have people in official state government positions, making those calls for people they have never met. have no interaction with and also have no training to make those calls about abortion's health care. you can believe the earth's, flat does not make it so. and so what we see now is on a government level, state by state, also the supreme court.

has decided that access to health care is not important. i'm not the maternal mortality rate on the rise is fine. it's not fine. >> they don't think it's an important, they know who will be most affected and they are not concerned. they are not concerned of black and brown people, queer and trans folks because those are the folks who want to widen the gap between the haves and have-nots. it's not that they don't care. it's health care. >> a nationwide ban is the ultimate goal, why would you have these laws that are saying that you can't even get a referral. okay abortion is legal and valid them up but you can't even talk to a patient and tell them what's state to go to or their can pass in missouri or south carolina where they police things in place where you know no information can be given. you can't even drive anybody to an abortion clinic. so i do think they're passing these laws in the states?

because their main goal is a nationwide, a nationwide ban on abortion. >> we don't believe birth control will be accessible or available or legal and alabama far too much longer because there's too much control right now. too much control in the legislature to overturn it. birth control is extraordinarily impossible to get in alabama for the most part. the only place that you can get it if you are low income in uninsured is from a county health department. it is a two, three, four months with an order to get and see somebody for it. >> let me be clear about this. if you do not have health insurance or other coverage and it would like, a woman who would like to be on birth control, and the state of alabama you could wait 3 to 4 months to get an appointment? >> exactly, that's how we ended up so many people at our clinic. >> you have to wake up i like atm to call the clinic. it's not like an easy call make

an appointment, that's not the case. you like about a certain, time of about five minute window of waiting on the phone, if you got through on that day to make here down and make the appointment. it's not accessible. >> we have legislation introduced i would've given employees the ability to determine if you had access to birth control. we argued about that in legislature about whether or not an employer could tell you that you can get birth control or not. >> when people said that was coming here because it's the first, we do these discussions across the country but it's the first one post-roe. and a number of people, said why alabama? i was my question into this conversation, becoming abundantly the clear, why alabama? >> and it's been, tough re-present of help services has been shut down. so we are close and not able to do anything except answer those calls. when you know you can help and you can't, just right through. you it is hard especially when you are talking to somebody

who's worried about their child. or to have a teenager on the phone. or something like that or somebody has been assaulted. and has been tough to have those calls. >> the assault thing is a good point that it's also like, you should not have to be assaulted right to have reproductive agents for you and maybe i don't want to have a kid, maybe i don't want my third kid. maybe i don't have the finances, maybe i just don't want to parent right? we've had a lot of people come from domestic violence and say, i will not be able to leave the situation with the pregnancy. and have turned people like that, away as alabama the services are so stigmatized. they cannot really reach out without the fear of the hr think oh, you need help, that means you should take your child. >> the way the law is set up for the way things are an alabama, they are doubly concerned there. concern about the pregnancy and i'm concerned about the fact that the government may come in and separate the family. >> right, when we first got

started it was that you try some of these programs before i really educate myself on the topic? they were like i don't want them to come and remove my child from a home, i just need food. and it's a really sad realization to think that that phone call when you reach out for help means that you might have your child removed. especially in a pregnancy that you don't really have the option to keep or terminate. >> and if you look at what our government has said that they are investing in right now in the state when it comes to this whole post-roe landscape, the two things that they said they are investing in is trying to train more families to be foster care parents and making sure that there are more adoption agencies that are out there. they have no intention of making sure that people can parent the children that they would be giving birth to. they want to give them away. >> exactly, code for life we will split up family still which is like america's mo right but i think people don't really, they hear that and it doesn't sound so bad. it's a kid's knee, like know that it's cold for they will intentionally separate families, pull kids out of homes.

>> that's america's mo, that is in our dna right now? >> separating families, supporting black families, yes. >> we have this chemical indictment laws on the books, that they target and profile patients, pregnant patients and patients in the hospitals. were you know a patient comes in, got a suspicion that they don't look like they are just right, let me go ahead and drug test them. a lot of hospitals don't even do pregnancy, they don't do the drug test confirmation. they might have a false positive but the ball is already gotten rolled nda, char is getting involved and angled on now, actually confirmation days came back. it was a false positive, well you know we've already made the call. so the ball is already rolling, but that means he know once they get in involved, and the system and it was a false positive. >> pre roe, we are already dying in childbirth, we could already not get abortions, this

is gonna change the trajectory of a lot of folks's lives, especially black folks are people that are in school. i think the most, the highest percentage is like 20 to 29. it was with the school years i can change your whole trajectory of somebody's life to have to get out of school, and this is a state with 7:25 minimum wage. and i say that's also going to tell, you what he should've gone to school and on a degree. i had a child that i didn't want in a state that told me i needed to have one. so think a lot of wet goes on in alabama's by design, and it really makes people feel stigmatized. it makes people feel as if they failed themselves right. and a state that really is designed that way for you not to succeed. >> it's almost like an alabama, we do as much as possible to sanitize our communities of people who don't think like certain folks, look like them, don't act like them or vote like them. so we try to make life so hard here, but you don't want to

live here. >> much more where that came from in the next hour, you will hear our discussion on the long fight ahead to try and restore abortion rights in alabama. right after the break, a tax loophole so agree just not even billionaire investors who benefited from it are opposed to it. pushing square founder, bill akron tweeted quote the carried interest loophole is a stain on the tax code. it does not help small businesses, pension funds, other investors and hedge funds or private equity and everyone in the industry knows it. it is an embarrassment and it should end now. a lot of details on that next. n that next. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day, that's effective without topical steroids. many taking rinvoq

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and taxes. that's comes for all of us but taxes, not necessarily. i'm talking about something called carried interest which you neither carry nor is it interest. it's a euphemistic -- that allowed hedge fund managers and private equity executives who earn their income off of money itself to pay tax rates, much lower than those of people who are in wages. which is most people. carried interest exist in the united states for more than 50 years as an incentive for long term investing. they want to add some noble goals but it's become a tool to save investment managers from paying the same rate of taxes as the rest of us. under carried interest, money made off of cline investments are taxed at just 20% for chopped earners. comparatively, the top of the individual income tax bracket, or wage earners is 37%. nearly double if you are tournament dollars in wages, your tax rate would be 37%. if you earned it managing money, it's 20%. to be clear, if you make money with the money, instead of with wage labor, you are rewarded

with a significantly lower tax rate. it is so evidently a scam that our past presidents have campaign on eliminating it. democrats barack obama and joe biden, even republican donald trump, and there have been many efforts over the years to close the loophole including a failed one this week that would not have been eliminated carried interest entirely. but tightened it. let's step in the right direction. it was a step too far for supporters of this egregiously exploited, rich peoples tax break. democratic senator, of arizona refused to support the inflation reduction act until anything that would hurt people from benefiting from carried interest was removed from it. and now an exchange for support for the bill, it is gone. to come as no surprise, according to open secret santa is a lucky recipient of major of behemoths, carlyle group of global management and k k are. also seen sizeable checks from other wall street into two shuns including goldman sachs and jp morgan. the office has not responded to

requests for comment from numerous news outlets about these donations, her position on the socks will pull. we have invited her to appear on the show to talk about it, and that invitation stance. perhaps if like most americans, you are not a millionaire, it is easy to see the inherent injustice in our government making it possible for those who got so much to take even more. but as it turns, out it's even clear to many billionaires. the most famous investor of them all, warren buffett is an outspoken critic of carried interest. over a decade ago 2011, buffett wrote an op-ed for the new york times. it's so breakthrough, today writing in part quote, while most americans struggle to make ends, me we mega rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labours, but are allowed to classify our income as carried interest. thereby getting a bargain, 15% tax. often and it is op-ed by arguing that the he and his billionaire friends have been coddled by congress for a long enough.

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a self governing democracy which china has long claimed belongs to them, and has vowed to forcefully annex. the problem is that china's claim assorted recognized by the united states and other countries. under a policy dating back to the 1970s, the u.s. acknowledges china towns one nation which includes taiwan, so long as china doesn't use force and taiwan. however, under the taiwan relations act of 1979, the u.s. also maintain separate economic in diplomatic relations with taiwan and even maintains a quasi-embassy there. the u.s. doesn't have a defense treaty with taiwan, however, america has offered certain assurances and pledges to taiwan, including arm sales dating back to the reagan administration and formalized by congress in 2016. nancy pelosi is the highest ranking american official to visit taiwan in 25 years. something that china says, it is a direct attack on its sovereignty. in an extreme escalation of its

already provocative behavior in the region in recent days, china has increased military exercises, including lodging five missiles into japanese waters, two of which flew over taiwanese air space shortly before those missiles were fired. the chinese foreign ministry said it also didn't recognized japan's economic rights to those waters. it seems china is not everyone right now. china also says it is dumping all dialogue and cooperation with the united states on issues including that climate, drugs, and military relations. the biden administration says that the chinese actions are quote, irresponsible unintentionally provocative, and are meant to intimidate not only the u.s. but americans regional allies, as well. some extra content for, context for china's extremely rocket actions. later this year, china's ruling communist party will convene its major congress gathering where president xi jinping is set to get his third five year term as party leader. there's a lot to unpack here, and join me to do that is admiral james -- the former commander of nato,

and the nbc's chief ad analyst, and the author of 2030, for a novel the next world war which explores a potential war with china. admiral, thank you for being here. i don't think i did justice to the history and the story of what is going on in china. but the bottom line is, china on an almost daily basis for the last few years has been flying into chinese airspace, their ships have been crossing the lines into taiwan these waters. there is something going on there. how does nancy pelosi's visit to taiwan change the dynamic of what is happening between china tight one? >> well the good news, ali, is i don't think it is gonna suddenly and permanently escalate tensions here. we are looking at probably another 72 hours of the kind of operation you are showing on the screen right now. which is to say a kind of

quasi-blockade of taiwan. there are dozens and dozens of chinese warships in those zones, and they are doing live fire exercises. so missiles, minds, all of that is being practiced, and therefore no ships want to go into those waters around taiwan. so that is the bad news. the good news is, i think after the weekend you will see this sort of move back to normal. but certainly the speaker's visit has gotten the attention of xi jinping, and as you pointed out, he wants to appear strong for this part of congress that is coming up. but at the same time, he is not interested in a full blown shooting war with the united states. he is not even interested in some kind of a minor incident. and i will close with this, ali, what i worry about here is miscalculation. at sea, or in the air.

because remember, applying those jobs are not very mature seasoned diplomats. of flying those jets are dusen maverick, and if american jets come in contact with chinese jets, we potentially have a problem >> and we can't say anything bad about goose or maverick on the show but, this is a point that guys like u.s. admirals make, and that is that in these situations, the dangers on the ground. somebody is in somebody's water, somebody is taught at it about it. somebody is not on the phone with somebody else. how bad can that get? because joe biden has said, more than presidents have said recently about the aid that the u.s. will provide to taiwan if china does get aggressive with that country. so, what could happen? >> you mentioned my book, 2034. it starts with a relatively small incident in the south china sea and escalates rapidly with cyber long-range weapons,

eventually tactical nuclear weapons. it gets ugly very quickly. so that is a possibility and any scenario. i think what is more likely as both nations would kind of step back from the precipice here a bit. let's hope so. i'll tell you, you've got a list of where china has backed away from climate, and drugs, and all engagements. the one that worries me the most is them backing away from military conversations, because that is how you would de-escalate a situation. let's hope both sides can take a step back here. >> admiral, is there something that you take away from the fact that, how closely has kind of been watching the situation with russia and ukraine? because obviously that is not the most successful version of a country going into it territory that they claim to be their own, and trying to under the stealth of darkness get it back. just kind of think about that with taiwan? did they sit there and say,

ukraine didn't work out so well with russia, maybe we shouldn't store the pot with taiwan right now. >> i think that is the lesson that president xi is taking away from the russian flailing in ukraine. he is asking himself three questions, one, are my generals as bad as those russian generals appear to be who have over promised and under delivered spectacularly thus far? number two, she is asking himself, i wonder if those taiwanese would fight like hell to waive the ukrainians are. i think so, i've been to taiwan, i've met with madame side the president. they are tough minded people. and number three, he is asking himself, my economy is really big. probably too big to sanction in its entirety, but could i be sanctions sector by sector? and with that hurt me? he is watching how the west is holding together. those are three questions that i think are having a chilling effect on the idea of china actually attacking taiwan,

fortunately. >> and of course, conversely our economy and our trade is much more tied in with china than it ever was with russia. so that complicates the global economic view of it as well. admirable, i'm grounded glad to talk about. it admiral james -- is a former supreme allied commander at nato. is nbc news chief international security and diplomacy analyst. straight ahead, president biden's big week in the major piece of democratic legislation likely to hit his desk. another hour of velshi, live from tuscaloosa alabama, starts right now. tuscaloosa alabama, start right now. good morning, it is saturday at augusta. six i am ali that she lived in tuscaloosa alabama for the special edition of velshi across america. post-roe alabama. it was my privilege to sit down with a group of alabamians who've been working the frontlines of the police battle here in the south, since the fall of roe v. wade. and