our economy and our trade is much more tied in with china than it ever was with russia. so that complicates the global economic view of it as well. admirable, i'm grounded glad to talk about. it admiral james -- is a former supreme allied commander at nato. is nbc news chief international security and diplomacy analyst. straight ahead, president biden's big week in the major piece of democratic legislation likely to hit his desk. another hour of velshi, live from tuscaloosa alabama, starts right now. tuscaloosa alabama, start right now. good morning, it is saturday at augusta. six i am ali that she lived in tuscaloosa alabama for the special edition of velshi across america. post-roe alabama. it was my privilege to sit down with a group of alabamians who've been working the frontlines of the police battle here in the south, since the fall of roe v. wade. and the end of abortion rights.

for millions of americans who live here. we heard last hour with these folks and their patients and their fellow citizens are up against. threats, harassments, a potential jail time. not to mention the lives and livelihoods at stake, and the risk of dying in force childbirth. later this hour, we will hear why, and how they are pushing ahead. continuing the fight in a place that looks as hopeless as anywhere in america, for abortion rights. they do not use the same tactics and strategies, and you will probably be surprised by some of what they are planning. you will definitely learn some things because i did. so i hope you will stick around for that conversation, but we begin this hour 800 miles away from where i stand. a big week in washington d.c.. mostly good. but some bad. three people are dead from a lightning strike directly across the street from the white house in lafayette park. another person remains in critical condition. that national disaster occurred just hours after the biden administration declared monkeypox a national health emergency. just the fifth time that

declaration has been made since 2001. the white house says it is ramping up its efforts to combat the disease, although that comes in the face of widespread criticism over the administration's handling of the outbreak, and especially the extraordinary vaccine shortage. something the administration should not be criticized for right now, however, is the economy. especially with yesterday's extraordinary jobs numbers. more than half 1 million net new jobs were added in july, meaning now all the jobs that were lost to the covid-19 pandemic are back. numerically. the same number of jobs that were lost in the entire pandemic, have been recovered. which has many people asking, what's your session? i'm going to dive into that, later in the show with one of the world's foremost economists, mohammed el-erian. plus, president biden is set to get a major piece of democratic legislation delivered to his desk to sign. the senate is now set to vote on the inflation reduction act, which among other things, provides new funds to fight climate change, which is pretty

prescription drug costs and other health care benefits, and it removes some tax loopholes. after a surprise announcement, the democratic senator joe manchin have been in talks with senate majority leader chuck sure where on this compromise bill, it's being held up not by republicans who almost certainly going to vote against it entirely, but by arizona democrat kirsten sinema who fought tooth and nail against eliminating something called the carried interest loophole. which essentially is a way for very rich people who make money using money like hedge fund managers, to pay absurdly low income tax rates. joining me now, is the founding co-chair of the ali v. club, nbc news is capitol hill correspondent, ali vitale. she is the author of the upcoming book electable. why america hasn't put a woman in the white house yet. good evening my friend, al ev. good morning. i am in alabama, it is the same it is also morning. here >> it's all the. same >> tickets at the inner workings of this legislation. this is legislation by the way, the weight of a top about for a long time and then it went

away. and it has reemerge to something entirely different. so it isn't, it would is not in, and when we expect it to happen? >> yeah, ali, over the course of our ev club conversations, we have actually talked about a few diversions of this bill. because it is the same that was build back better when that fell apart at the end of last year, then it became something entirely different. and now, we see where it lands. it is something the focus is on health care, shoring up some obama subs disease, also knowing the cost of prescription drug prices, and then it pivots to the economy putting more than 350 billion dollars into energy security and climate change investments. some of the biggest investments that we have seen from the government ever in that space. and certainly something that progressives have been clamoring for four years. but then there is also that big number in the middle of your screen there, 300 billion in deficit reduction. it is something that we are hearing a lot about from democrats, especially because of that economic landscape that you are talking about. democrats are in the position right now, heading into the

midterms, we republicans are trying to make this reflection in a referendum on the economy. looking at inflation numbers, trying to cite different pieces of the economic recession, that as you were mentioning, many economists say isn't actually happening. democrats now, potentially passing this bill, will be able to rebut that by saying, look, we literally passed the inflation reduction act. and it is something that hundreds of a calm in his, as well as former treasury secretary for both the public and democratic administrations, have said we'll do that and will help in this current economic moment. and so, it makes sense why the senate is working a rear saturday sunday here, because they want to get this done as he was possible. it looks like they have the numbers. really, ali, the only thing they're waiting on at this point is the senate parliamentarians to give her okay on all the different pieces of legislation, so that they can actually get final bill text. but we are going to see them start this process this afternoon. it is gonna be like, the long, many hours of debate. then something called a vote-a-rama which is effectively unlimited

amendments that republicans are gonna try to insert some politically problematic votes. but yeah, we are in for a long weekend here. but it is likely going to end with democratic success on the. >> we will stay close to you, ali. good to see you my friend, thanks for joining. us >> you too. >> and here with me now, in tuscaloosa, is a former democratic senator from alabama, doug jones. he's a former u.s. attorney for alabama, he is the author bending towards justice, the birmingham church bombing that change the course of civil rights. and i'm going to talk to him about that in a little bit. first of all, good to see you my friend. >> good to see. you >> question everyone, is how you wear a jacket on a summer morning in tuscaloosa. >> gotta get dressed up for folks to visit in alabama, that is just what we do here in the south no matter how damn audit. is >> i appreciated. i miss you when i was last in burlington last year, so i am really got to talk to you know you. here this bill was a surprise to everybody that it was getting done. and you know, normally when you look at ability compares to the

build back better bill, it's smaller, there's lots of criticism about. it it's a pretty impressive. bill >> it's a hell of an impressive bill. this is something, i give credit to senator manchin and senator schumer. they kept this quiet, they work through these problems, they needed to be an issue, they need it have to talk to senator sinema. but what they did is two things. one, they kept this quiet and they got the chips bill done. senator mcconnell had said that he was going to hold that bill, which is a national security interest bill, by the. way was going to hold that hostage and faces reconciliation forward. well, they got that ships bill done. whenever the house, it passed into law. and they announced this bill. and it is a really important bill, and it is important not only for the country, it is important for this administration to let people know the democrats are getting things done right now. and in the areas of climate, health care, reducing inflation, it is a big deal. >> everybody who has a particular area wants, but it is more than a. little >> democracy is not what everybody wants, democracy is something about truth, it is

about coming together to find common ground, and moving our country forward. and that is exactly what this bill does. it is just a shame that it is not going to get any republicans, they should be behind. this it is a step forward for the entire. country >> so if you weeks ago people would have said, biden's popularity numbers are low, democrats are gonna get trounced in the election. and by the, way it's all about the economy and that is terrible nobody's gonna vote for democrats. so much has happened in the last couple of weeks. real legislation getting done, very strong economic numbers, and then i always tell people, if you look at all the economic numbers you want to include in the stock market, but jobs are where the rubber hits the road for. people this kansas vote. it feels like there is a different energy in the air. >> there is no question. i have been telling democrats across the country for a couple of months now, and i am tired of listening to all the debris down or sear. i'm tired of listening people tell us that we're gonna get trounced. we have things to be proud of, even before the summer. the infrastructure bill, the

american rescue plan that has brought us to where we are at of covid right now. and this reminds me a little bit of the 2020 primaries. people counted joe biden out early on. they said he should drop, out he's too old. the whole nine yards. well, as the summer went through, he does what he does best and that is work with the members of congress, work with the other side of the aisle getting both bipartisan bills. and when he can't get that bipartisan bill, he worked within the democratic caucus to get this inflation reduction act. and then you've got kansas, and then that vote really is giving some people encouragement. it is kind of, ali, some people tell me the other day it was almost like in 2017 with my election. we heard so many times across this country, that election in alabama, into december 2017 gave people hope. this kansas vote gives people hope. and it is encouraging people to get out there, they've got energy, they're organizing. and i think that going into this midterm that we have got more winters are back now that

we got to faces headwinds. >> let me ask you about that, because i thought you about that at that time. we are in alabama, alabama is not a liberal state. there is no way that you can parse. that so there is work to be done, and kendis prove that with the right argument that there is work to be done, particularly with moderates and conservatives who are working in good faith. if there is a component of the republican party today that you can talk to, but there is a component that you can. and that is something you have lived in that space. so tell us a little bit more about what democrats continue in this time, they don't want to do it, but to engage moderates in the republicans. >> i think that the kansas faux was a vote for rights. and it was a vote to keep the status quo. you compare that with what's happened with the gerrymandered legislature. kansas was about for the people. indiana was the vote of his gerrymandered legislature. and there is a big difference there. people in alabama are conservative, for sure. but they also believe in individual freedom. and they believe in individual

liberties. and we were happy with roe v. wade. people would say that, but those who are unhappy, where they're part of that group that were so far that you're never gonna get to them, or they were just exploding people for political gain. and that is what we have seen happening. i believe that as we go forward, you are gonna see folks, folks like this we've got out here right now who have committed in the early saturday morning, and they are gonna be talking and they're gonna be going where people are. because people in this country, they want to have their rights. they want to have their freedoms, they understand this, but we have got to go where people are. and understand that there is a religious component to this. people need to meet with that. and i said all along, this is a health care issue. it is a moral issue, and we can find common ground. the biggest issue that i think we are going to face right now and i heard some folks talking about it earlier, issues of contraception of those things. if we can do more together, right and left, to lower the number of women, and families

by the way, who have to make these tough decisions we are going to make considerable progress. >> i was shocked to find out how difficult it is for people without insurance, women without insurance to get contraception in the city. >> it is very very difficult. but i'm gonna tell you this, i think that our opportunities right now are -- because when you got a supreme court decision, and you've got a back stop, so it's easy to let politicians demagogue issues to death. and run is far to the right as they can, knowing that there is a backstop there that is not gonna happen. well this is kind of like that dog caught the car. now they have to figure out what's to do. and people are going to start demanding. once they see, when some people taliban some of these other very red states see exactly the impact that these legislations, these gerrymandered radical right legislators are gonna do you, they're gonna start demanding change and they're gonna demand is the local level. it's gonna make some changes, and we're gonna see a lot of changes in the future. this is not gonna be overnight, but it is coming.

>> now, that is a good setup for the conversation we're gonna be having with the panel that i met with. because they are also saying, joked about. you do make a reference by the way, i don't know if b.j. can get their shot but, to the folks who've gathered to welcome us here in tuscaloosa this morning. i don't know if we've got, do we have a picture of these great folks who come out to keep us company on a saturday morning? there we go. >> thank you for welcoming us to your beautiful and warm town. senator i want you to stick around for a second because you have a very deep and rich history and civil rights and there is a matter that occurred this week that i want to discuss with you after the break. but we'll be right back. you are watching a special edition of velshi, across america. we'll be right back. shi,cr aos america. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. we believe there's an innovator in all of us. that's why we build technology that helps everyone come to the table and do more incredible things. ♪ ♪

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and on the go to block millions of threats. only from us... xfinity. back with me now the former united states senator, doug jones of alabama. senator, i want you to stick around for this because you actually prosecuted the birmingham, the church bombing a case decades after it happened. you have some sense on how things that don't go right the first time around, can go right again. that something -- and the killing of breonna taylor in which the federal government stepped in this week with civil rights charges. now we don't normally see that in the audience is not used to the idea that that happens. going back to the civil rights movement, that is been a key role of the federal government. even here in alabama. >> no question, you can only go

back to the three civil rights workers that were killed here in philadelphia and mississippi. the people that were charged in state court got acquitted. and the federal government had not stepped in for a civil rights inflation. people forget i think that there is a lot of pressure sometimes for local law enforcement within those communities and the public officials there and that's understandable because you want to support your local law enforcement and sometimes the federal government's role is to have that more independent objective you plus resources that i think could be brought to. about it was incredibly significant because with the federal government and the kentucky case was able to do, or show a cover-up. a serious cover-up of what happened and get to the bottom of the facts. one thing that folks, when the federal government comes in, people pay tension. whether it is witnesses have potential targets. people pay tension and i know that these federal standards and combine's are tough. and now that can go to person for a long time. i was really pleased that the

department of justice stepped in, though there were quietly by the way he noticed and people are giving doj a hard time for not being more public with the investigation seized a. they did it quietly and it came out of the blue, it was the right thing. >> what is your evaluation? you said people are getting critical of the department of justice for not being expensive as it might be. i think a lot of that has to do with january six, what they wanted them to do given the january six investigation in congress. what is your sense of? it would have the department of justice a quick because some people after four years of the trump administration want this department of justice to move with haste. to punish people who did things that hurt the democracy. >> i think they're moving but the fact of the matter, is to do an investigation properly, you cannot move with haste. it has to be done right, what is going on right now with the department of justice involving january 6th but before during, and after is probably the most consequential case that the

government has ever done. department of justice. it has got to be done right, there is no room for error and something like this. it is a major investigation, major decision and a lot of people forget that the evidence that they are seeing on january 6th is not evidence that the doj can use in a trial. you can't take those under oath statements and depositions and plop them down in a courtroom with somebody on trial. there is a confrontational clause of the constitution that gives defended the right to cross examine. that evidence is incredibly important and it locks people in. but the doj has built all, matt be able to handle and be comfortable and what those witnesses stage strong in the january six committee. well they stay strong with a withering cross examination. there is a lot that goes into it but i really believe that what we've seen the last couple of months, the last few weeks is a confirmation of how fast and expensive this investigation with doj is and how they are moving.

>> we saw on the trump administration, the department of justice look like it was doing the bidding up of president. merit garland, i don't know how well you know him, seems to want to none of that state. he does not want to look like he's doing joe biden or the democrat's business. he does not want to make mistakes. where is the line that he walks to seem assertive and feel like things are going on and yet not fall into that trap of being the democrat attorney general of biden's attorney general? >> unfortunately, it's a difficult line to see sometimes for the public. because her hamstring, the grand jury secrecy rules. you are hamstrung by investigative secrecy that you don't want to tip people off, you don't want to give people a road map of where you are going and what you are doing. i think that apartment is doing an outstanding job of walking the fine line. merrick garland came into office with the statements of the united states. i will stand at the parliament of justice, this is not gonna be doing my bidding. merrick garland came in with

that charge, and that is his nature anyway. it is been a judge for many years, that is his nature anyway. it is very deliberate and it is based on the law, the rule of law in the evidence that he gets. and then they've done a really good job but the line shifts a little bit. because there is some public demand. i'm hoping now that folks who let the department do their job, there is nothing that the media can do. there is nothing that i can do, nothing these folks can do to hurry that up. and they really don't want it. they want it done right rather than just quickly. >> senator, thank you for driving us to see this morning. i know it is not entirely close to your, home but your home state. i appreciate the warm welcome. good to see you my friend. >> come back down to tuscaloosa for a football game sometime. >> i saw do, that senator doug jones. former senator and former u.s. attorney and the author of bending towards justice. the birmingham church bombing that change the course of civil rights. and somebody who is very popular amongst the folks who have come out to visit us this

morning in tuscaloosa. one of the many things that is hard to fully understand about the fall of roe and the cruel abortion bans that followed is the doctors who could face what amounts to life in prison for performing now illegal abortions. they are being deliberately kept in the dark about what's an illegal abortion even in this. more by conversation with six alabama deep in post roe territories on the way. >> your state does have some exceptions i believe for the health of the mother, for abortion. >> you, tommy you are the doctor. >> we don't have an answer. i would tell you several things but i understand that my interpretation of medicine is not a place-able to the law. the law. neighborhoods "open". businesses "open". fields "open". who doesn't love "open"? offices. homes. stages. possibilities.

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bans and a level of state control over pregnant bodies is bound only by the imagination of the anti-abortion movement, that dreamed of the state. and did not waste time turning the states where they are in power, into an early scene from the handmaid's tale. but the fight to protect reproductive rights is not over even in places like alabama where it looks frankly quite bleak. as we get set on with a group of alabamians who are determined to fight on despite being up against impossible looking odds in a state where anti-abortion forces are in complete control. >> when somebody writes you off and they stopped sending resources, and that is when you suffer more loss. i don't want anybody to look at the situation and say because there is no abortion in alabama anymore, there is no point and doing anything there at all. because you sacrifice so many people when you do that. or the fact that you know, alabama criminalizes folks with

transgender children seeking care. i don't want anybody to look at us and write a soft, so those family suffer. if we have lost something, i need to reinvest in alabama so that we can fight it. double down, it's not the opportunity to quit, the opportunity to fight harder. to send more resources and to help us even more because, we have made it very clear. especially in alabama phenomenons here, it's headed your way. >> robin, you made this point that you are spending your resources at your clinic doing whatever you can do at this point. it's quite possible you resources will entirely dry up. and that is the problem right? that of people think there is no hope, why would i send my money? >> yes that still makes me emotional. thank you. we have made commitments and this moment after row that we are going to do the most good that we can for the most people that we can until we cannot

anymore. we don't know what the future will look like, maybe abortion will come back. i really hope so. there is also just likely a possibility that birth control disappear. and we will not hoard any resources and we will make sure that every health care need is met. we will do it on a sliding scale, we will do it for free, we'll do prenatal care. you're going to keep going and i will sit and raise as much money as possible to keep it going. and the side effects of it is that we are going to be a place where people can come to if they do decide that they are gonna try and terminate their own pregnancy. they are afraid to go to a hospital. we are going to be a place where people can come to if they are experiencing a miscarriage and are pleading. they are forced to go to the hospital or even worse, they got to the hospital and they sit in the emergency room for hours and just lead because we have already seen that happen multiple times. we will be there for those

people for as long as we can because obviously, there is nobody left for them. >> i think if any of the alabama and legislators, if the attorney general wanted to come and see what i do and see what i face, see the people that they govern, that they are passing laws about and the real life situations, they might have a different song to sing. there are problem is they don't understand and they are passing laws, having no understanding of what is the reality of passing those laws. would you board a plane, whose pilot did not have a license? would you get on that plane? i would be insane, wouldn't it? what we have our unlicensed people without medical training, without medical licenses, telling those with training and with licenses how to fly the plane? i think there's a significant gap of understanding with all

of this means. and it's not a hard gap to fill. you just have to lift them to us, we will tell you what is happening. which he term am? the people who are not necessarily bad faith actors, but they are not where you are on those? >> if i were reaching out to people who think that abortion is something that should be illegal, something that is a moral, when i would tell them is that every person at some point is going to need an abortion, or know somebody who's going to need abortion. there is no such thing as a safe pregnancy. every pregnancy has the potential at some point in there to end up in a complication that could put that person who is carrying that pregnancy, put their life in jeopardy. so abortion can never be completely gone. but we can work together on goals that will make sure that there is less abortion, and if nothing else it's become clear since this has begun, it is that the same people who are introducing these bands, that are making things so restricted, are not doing anything to try to stop people from needing abortions in the first place.

they are not investing in people who want to parrot, they're not doing anything to make sure that there is ample birth control available for people in the first place. we work on those issues together, because even if they don't believe in abortion, i believe that they firmly believe that every person should only have children but they are prepared for, and to be fully supported when they do have the children or make sure that everybody has a good life. >> johnny's, are you okay with that argument? like are you okay with saying that okay if that is your goal, then there should be abortions. you're not working towards that goal with the loss that you have in alabama, because you have illustrated that you have high maternal death rates here, you've got high poverty rates. you're not helping anybody be apparent, and you are not helping with contraception. >> i'm dave on the pessimistic side. i don't hear, it's a death threat for black women. they are not anywhere championing us getting better health care services better

hospitals, they're not anywhere challenging the hr and stigmatize services that affect black services. i don't want to hear. >> so you don't think that is a fruitful road to go down? >> oh absolutely. do i want to have a conversation with people who disagree? no. because this is a death threat. so we have to organize in a way that it's very indicative people will die from this, and so i don't have time for the conversation with people that are opposed. that work is very important, i admire people that are taking that route. and also, i am not talking to anti-'s about how we get there because, they are deliberately up to. 's they know. >> what do you do it now? what does this fight look like to you? >> we are going to fight like hell, that is what we're going to do. we are going to fight with every breath of our bodies because, when you take those calls at a clinic. and you know that you could help the patient on the other end of the phone, and we can't

provide that care anymore, it goes all the way through your soul. and it could be your daughter, it could be your granddaughter that won't have access to this care. so we are in the fight, we all are, and we are gonna do what we can to make sure that this does not stay law forever. we >> my many many heartfelt thanks to that group. we are almost smarter for that conversation. right after the show, i'm headed to the west alabama women center, which is determined to keep its doors open despite not being able to provide or advise patients on abortion. i am going to bring you that report, when velshi across america continues from tuscaloosa tomorrow, at 8 am eastern. coming up next, some good news on somebody who's on wall street. the good news, blowout hiring numbers and wage growth for the month of july. the bad news, the economy

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you get a smile on your plate. only from ihop. download the app and join the rewards program today. lots of parts to an economy, ray? there's gdp, and their stock markets. but really some of the main indicators of a healthy economy already strong jobs market and study wage growth. and that is exactly what we saw in this week stellar jobs report. on friday, the u.s. bureau of labor statistics of the american companies added more than 528,000 jobs in july. that is more than double the jobs that were predicted for it last month. and just like, that the u.s. is now recovered all of the jobs, numerically that were lost in the early days of the pandemic. but there is more. the labor department also revealed that wages are on the.

rise last month the average hourly earnings raised more than 5%. that is a good news, the bad news is that the economy did technically contract. it got smaller in july. check the last two quarters in a row. so we are still seeing inflation about 9%. so even if your wages are up five and change, your costs are up 9%. so if this is a sweater looming recession looks like these? days joining me now to make sense of all of this is muhammad o'leary, and he is the chief economic and financial services. he is the deputy director the international monetary fund, former ceo of -- and he is the bestselling author. mohammed, you are the guy that i need to talk to her because this doesn't feel like a recession when jobs are being created, but unemployment is the lowest that it has been since before the recession when there are more people employed than ever before. when wages are going out. but you do see a few clouds, a few clouds around the inside the civil lining, let me see that when we put it that way. >> so first, we are not in a

recession. we had another very strong jobs report. it is not just this jobs report, if you look at the three month average, ali, we are creating more than 40,000 jobs a month. that is an incredibly high number. wages are going up, unemployment is thrown, labor force participation could be doing better. but overall, the most important part of the economy is doing well. what are those clouds? it has to do with completion. the federal reserve, unfortunately, has a lot of elation to get entrenched into the system. we all feel it. and what inflation does, it destroys demand. the more prices go up the last people spend, the less people spend, the less companies invest and you risk a recession. so the problem is not the economy, the problem is not the way to the policies, the problems that the federal reserve has allowed inflation to get out of control. to get out of control. so now we have a situation where we are seeing more people

getting jobs and wages going up. that will still create the man because people have money to spend. because this could be federal reserve more space now to try and fix the problem that there were a late fixing? to the increase interest rates more and as a potentially dangerous to the economy if they do so? >> yes, that is the problem. how they started early, like some of us who are urging them to do, they would have been able to have the brakes. and allow it is called a soft landing. we do see inflation without harming economic growth unduly. now that they were so late, they will have to continue slamming on the brakes. and when you slam on the brakes, you risk accidents. so, yes they will continue raising interest rates, why yesterday's report alleges that they are significantly behind and they need to catch up.

and they also need to restore the credibility. central banks, need the credibility to influence to all behave in a way that is consistent with financial stability. so they have a lot of work to do to catch up. i want to ask you about the unemployment stuff, normally when we talk about unemployment, people look at the number end of percentage. 3.5%, and i tend the denominator ships every month, -- the number of jobs created and that was a big deal, 528,000 new jobs. almost all private sectors, we are not creating government jobs at the moment. but you look beyond, that you look at the labor force participation rate, and that gives you pause, tell me why? >> yes a labor force participation is how many people are in the labor market. why is that important? because it drives, growth address productivity. and what we've seen for the last two months is a steady decline in labor force participation.

that is not good for the economy. and now the are three potential reasons for that, when we have not done enough on childcare and that impacts labor force participation. , to the impact of perhaps long covid and three is that waiters have been lagging inflation significantly and people simply have not been coming into the labor market that attractive. it is important that we deal with these issues, because in order for the economy to remain vibrant, we need the supply side, that just not passively before's participation but slope much. incidents do with everything that we've been talking about for a couple of years. we need that to be much more vibrant. what is being done by the administration is going to help, it is a shame that the childcare issues that not go for congress. i would've also helped a lot.

>> mohammed, thank you for your analysis. we needed this week because there's a lot of stuff on both sides of the ledger that are coming up. we appreciate your time, mohammed is the chief akabas -- right after the, break we have fewer than 100 days until the midterms and row already seeing it's of what's to come. a ballot of two options, a democrat or an election denier. this is velshi. n denier this is velshi this is velshi ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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primaries last, week they'll be more next week. the voter in from last, week arizona's nominees for governor of the democratic secretary of state katie hobbs and the republican big lie superspreader, kerry lake. this is a new level of crazy even for arizona. even after the entire cyber ninjas fraudit ordeal following the 2020 presidential election. carrie like shows zero strength spewing conspiracy theories lace lies about voter fraud. she has appeared in the fence with qanon linked activists and a nazi sympathizer but she campaigned with our filled former presidents, complete endorsement. i don't have to reminded the office of the governor hold significant responsibility. imagine if the person responsible for the initial conduct of all executive and ministerial officers, that's a tough and governor -- and of deters was and an election denier and was willing to compromise the integrity of the election system. you don't have to imagine that,

in arizona is not an outlier by the way. pennsylvania and michigan are at risk of having a big lie governor as well. dog mask free on oh and two dixon, both who promoted the big lie in the past and continue to. midterms are 94 days away, if the republican primaries have taught us anything, is that pro trump election deniers got a major boost while other candidates to distance himself from trump lost in some cases. it makes you wonder, is the republican party truly maga or bust? let us find out because right after the break, i will be joined by jennifer reuben, opinion writer for the washington post and michael steele -- and maryland's former lieutenant governor, stay with us. nor, stay with us but it is now time for us to work even harder, searching for meaningful experiences and new adventures for you to embark upon. they say when you reach the top, there's only one way to go.

we say, that way is onwards. viking. exploring the world in comfort. all right, let's talk about the

direction of the public republican party with jennifer reuben, msnbc political analyst and author of, resistance how women save democracy from donald trump. and michael steele formal former trail which chairman and honorary member of team. guilty michael, thank you. i was often africa doing my thing because you are sitting in and helping to the show. so i am grateful to you, and i'm grateful to both of you for being here. jennifer reuben's. make some sense of what happened this last week. because there were moments, there are glimmers of hope for parts of the republican party and some conservative some republicans in this country, and then there were some

disastrous stuff that went on. with maga election deniers, winning very very solemnly. what do you make of what happened? >> i think by and large donald trump still has an iron grip on the republican party. that the number of election deniers as well as the number of republicans who voted for impeachment tour defeated, tells me that the republican party is very much in the maga camp. as you outlined we have a very dangerous situation because secretaries of state attorneys general governors are the people who review elections, run elections, certify elections, and if those people are thoroughly corrupt and essentially have decided a democrat will never win this state again, that our democracy collapses and our presidential election system collapses. so these are going to be very serious races. and as you said, the electorate is going to have a choice between democrats two rather

moderate democrats, i would, add whitmer and wished in michigan for example, josh shapiro in pennsylvania. or to go down this road of maga republicans. and i will say one thing, in a very interesting interview yesterday, liz cheney said, i don't think you should vote for any election denier. i am going to be looking to see if she actually goes out and campaigns, and makes a fourth full pitch to republicans not to elect these people. >> what do you think, mike. >> i think jennifer has nailed it. the reality of it in, there is a lot of evidence now that sort of confirms that trump's hold on the party has gone beyond trump himself. to the extent that you have been maga world, people are now sort of wanting to dance with desantis and starting to say, oh you know, i like trump's

policies whatever the holders are. and i like what he has done for the country, yes that is turned out. well but i think we should probably look around and sees a little bit of this, he's a little bit too much. that that tells me that maggot has become an entity into itself which to jennifer's point, it's like you get an infection that is isolated and then it spreads. and then it gets to the point where the doctors go, damn the fifth consumed your entire body. and now we have to resort to drastic measures, which is what liz cheney is referring to where you are going to see republicans like myself, and liz, and others, who will say without any hesitation to not vote for anyone who is telling you that the 2020 election was a lie. donald trump is still the duly elected president of his country. because that, my friends, on the other side of that you won't like it at all.

>> so, let me give you credit example. i know you've chanted on this, michael, so i want to ask you jennifer. peter meijer, in michigan republican voted to impeach donald trump. he is a republican, he is not a liberal republican, he's a republican. but he did the right thing by trump. democrats spent a lot of money getting its opponent elected, an election denier, because they forget the opponent would be easier to defeat in the general election then peter meijer was. and that worked. the opponent one, peter meijer lost his primary. why do you think that? that is some strategic voting that could work for democrats, or could go really wrong, could get another election denier elected to congress. >> yeah i think it is a very dangerous tactic. and i would absolutely condemn, if they were doing that in a gubernatorial, a secretary of state, or a attorney general spot, for the reasons we just

talked about. you can't put election deniers in charge of elections, and you can't risk that one of these people who you say will never when. i think we went down the road with trump on that one, will somehow be defeated the general election. as far as the congressional seats go, again, you have to be really careful that you are not adding to that body of crazy in the house of representatives. and we are going to see whether this back fighters on democrats and some of these people actually get in. now i will say this. every republican who has it is currently running with the exception of liz cheney, it is going to line up and vote for kevin mccarthy for speaker. and i think that then makes them kind of fair game. if you are going to ultimately go down that road, then you are not somebody who democrats want around for very much longer. it's nice that he voted for impeachment, that's great. but until these people for square the party itself, until they say i am not going to put

a person like kevin mccarthy, who is completely loyal to donald trump, in a position of authority, i think that is very. game and i don't think republicans should be voting for, quote, good republicans of those republicans are going to turn around and empower the maga forces. >> and michael steele, i heard from my fantastic team who loves working with you that you might have a different opinion on this. you think it is fair game if democrats think they can get somebody in who they can defeat, maybe they should try. >> yeah, i mean look, i am a former county state and national chairman. that is what i do. we have strategies, we employ them. and this is something that has been employed in the passed by both democrats and republicans. and i put it to this way, people sit back and they don't seem to have a problem with negative ads in a general election. against an opponent. but now we are concerned about

a party putting a positive hands? about your opponent in the primary? so, you know, i hear what people are saying. yes there is a risk with every strategy you do in politics. there's absolutely a risk with that. but i can tell you, we have some success with this in 2010. i had some success with it here in prince george's county in the state of maryland. so sometimes it works out that is all lined up for you, and it's just one more effort that parties have in their available to them to try to get to a position where you have the best competitive advantage going into a general election. so i just find it a little bit funny that people are slamming the dems for running positive ads about these maga republicans. yeah, they are gonna turn around in november and say don't for that crazy. of course they are. but that is just part of the nature of trying to put the best players in front of you that you're gonna go up

against. that you're gonna go u against. well i appreciate both of, you it is great to have both of you. thank you for joining us this, morning jennifer and, robbyn washington post opinion writer and mike are -- former rnc chairman and host of the michael steele podcast. both great friends of the show, that does it for, me thank you for watching for this special addition from velshi -- i am here tomorrow as well. i am going to an abortion clinic, cannot provide abortions anymore right after the show. i will bring you that tomorrow. velshi across america, post-roe alabama starts at 8 am eastern, the cross connection with tiffany cross begins right now. tiffany cross begins right now all, right good morning everyone. welcome to the cross connection, i'm of course stephen across. siena democrats are puttin