we're closing this hour with an update from last week's show. house oversight committee chairman carolyn maloney spoke about her intention to -- at the dawn ceo refused to provide her panel about the companies profits and marketing strategies. here is with the chairwoman pulled ayman. >> we requested got the events that he fell to get us. he refused. he also refused to testify. every time we change the day to testify, he said he would not testify. we want to hear his explanations also. these could manufacturers have business practices that are

dangerous, explosive and reckless. they particularly, aggressively market tactics to young people, to extremist, and they also financed them completely for them with no money down. >> chairwoman maloney kept her promise. this week, the committee subpoenaed smith and weston, demanding the documents for their sales of ar style weapons and internal communications regarding last week shooting. they want -- the smith and western rifle was used. they are also pressuring the company to check and monitor injuries, deaths and crimes associated with their ar-15 rifles. we will bring you more on the story, if and when it's smith and western response to the subpoena. and, coming up on the second hour of ayman, arizona

secretary of state katie hobbs, the democratic nominee for governor, she is here. we will discuss the race for bitterness and the senate reconciliation bill. i think that we're down. plus, the gop is growing -- right on the spy at cpac. later, new revelations about the justice department's january six investigation. i am sense dine in for ayman mohyeldin, let's get it started. it has been almost two years since the 2020 election, but the details surrounding donald trump's plot to overthrow those results keep pouring in. and new jersey, trump's coup coconspirators, that is a mouthful, knew how damaging their behaviors were to democracy. this week, new york times, found previously undisclosed emails, showed to republicans

-- and kelly townsend, the state senator, both expressed concerns to trump's lawyers about his the elector scheme. he told lawyers that he feared their actions could be seen as, quote, treasonous. but in the end, they went along with it. kelly ward ultimately joined the effort, signed a fake elector document, although kelly townsend did not serve as a fake elector, she continued to push trump's election lies. also this week, we finally got a look into the findings of a justice department task force, but to get the to examine the avalanche of threats election workers faced in 2020. to review more than 1000 reported threats against election workers. the doj says it has opened more than 100 federal criminal investigations. joining a senate judiciary hearing this week, the senior election security advisor for cyber infrastructure agency, she became emotional about

being in election worker in america. >> doxxing is a problem, and is across the election community. i apologize, senator, for getting emotional -- thank you. it was unnerving, as you can tell, when my information was put out. that is part of why i joined, to be honest, is to provide sane and local election officials with two sources that they don't have. >> this goes much further than doxxing. just last week, a massachusetts man was arrested by the fbi for threatening to detonate a bomb in arizona secretary of state katie hobbs, quote, personal space. if she did not resign. secretary hobbs, who joined us in a moment set and response, quote, this harassment won't be tolerated and can be normalized. and normalization is a very real fear because election

deniers across the country are winning their primary races, setting up a scary scenario for november. as ayman has pointed out on the show for months, the midterms are not just a contest between blue and red, democrat and republican, they are actually a race between those who will uphold democracy and those who won't. joining us now is arizona state secretary katie hobbs, the democratic nominee for governor, thank you for joining us very much. secretary, i want to get your reaction to the senate hearing. you mentioned last week that your office received a bump it. how often is that happening? how rare is it? talk about what trauma you and your fellow election officials have encountered since 2020? >> think so much for having me. just to clarify, the bumper was about 18 months ago, so what we just learned of the rest of the person that made that.

it is incredibly unfortunate that we are in a time in our politics and government that these kind of threats and harassment are completely normalized. part of what we expect on the job every day. this is not the only thought that my office has received. my biggest concern is for my stuff, the people that work in my office, who did not run for office, it did not sign up for this. they are civil servants doing their job and making sure that arizonans can vote and participate in our elections. it is really concerning. it has been taxing on our staff. we have experienced turnover, local election offices have experienced turnover. i know that is happening across the country. >> has your staff been directly targeted in any of these threats? >> my election director was also doxxed along with myself back in 2020. that's the only direct targeting that i am aware of. >> the larger context here is that these are just a ground

swell of threats to election workers. so a survey found that less than half election workers receiving hertz had reported them to enforcement. they are going unreported. and not only that, 20% reported threats to federal agencies. what do you think is behind the under reporting? would you like to see the federal government do to get in there early on to help protect officials, so that they don't get there in the first place? >> let me first say that this is part of the ongoing attacks on our democracy, part of the attack here is to continue to sow chaos in our systems. the disruption caused by losing season election workers is undeniable, and we are seeing some of that play out in this election season. these election deniers, who are normalizing this kind of threat, our up and down the ballot in arizona. they won primaries in huge

numbers. so, this election is a race between people who are defending our democracy, versus election deniers. it is a choice between insanity and chaos. the consequences of losing in november or too high. so, i need folks to join me at katie hobbs that org. we cannot normalize this, as this is what happens when you lose an election in america. >> he did not name a name, but one of the people i presume you are talking about is the person who is running to take her job, mark finchem, a prominent election denier in the state. he is a state legislator. he won the republican primary for secretary of state. you're familiar with the powers that come to the office that you occupy. i guess it is easier for people to understand the threat, if you can outline with the nightmare scenario would look like for them, if you were to

get elected and take over secretary of state, come 2024? what does that mercenary look like? >> look, we have a whole slate of election deniers running for the top state offices. if these folks were all their elections and be able to act in concert to change the rules, to overturn the will of the voters, to refuse to certify the 2024 election or put their own slate of electors in, and we would rely on the attorney general, under normal circumstances, to be a legal backstop or the governor to say, no, we had to certify. that will not be the case, if we lose those checks and balances. all of these races are critical. the governor, unfortunately, holds a veto pen that can stop some of this bad legislation that we are seeing that would change the rules. these races are all critical, and the consequences of losing are just too hard to think about.

>> let's shift to your race for the governorship. you will be running against kari lake, it appears. she was declared the republican nominee. she has called for you to be arrested for your role and the 2020 election. i assume you are not supported to the authorities, anytime soon. but she has also provided evidence that you have not broken laws. my question for you is twofold. one is, where do you make of her sentence? two is, as you go about this campaign, how much of your focus will be spent on what we are talking about, which is democracy versus people who do not care about it? and how much do you feel needs to be spent on issues that may be resonating more with voters? it could be something as easy as inflation or reproductive rights. >> there is no one that want to move on more from the 2020 election more than i do.

i spoke to a lot of arizonans that's feel that way. they are worried about rising prices, they want someone who will take action to fix our schools, i guess our water crisis and protect reproductive health care. these are things on top of minds of voters that i spent the last several months and will continue over the next two months talking to about how we bring leaders together to solve these urgent problems. and the contrast between me and caroline cannot be more clear. i hit the run running on the solutions can't wait tour. she is at a gathering of a most far-right people in america, pandering to them, instead of talking to arizona voters about how to fix these problems. >> before we go, i want to switch a little focus to domestic politics here and legislation being considered in the capital. i want to ask you about arizona senator, kristen sinema. she did come to an agreement with senate democrats this week

on this pretty robust and massive package on climate and health care and tax increases, but she did so by demanding the removal of the so-called closing of the carry interest loophole, from the reconciliation package. i understand the governor and secretary are different positions. but you do serve the same constituents, do you support the removal of the carry interest loophole? >> look, what i can say is that i spent eight years in the legislator. i know that legislation is a game of compromise, and i am someone who has a charge record of getting legislation passed in a republican nominated like slater. it is all about compromise. this legislation are all over all esper important to address rising prices, to address the critical issues we are facing with common change. it is important legislation, historic legislation, and i am glad to see it get over the finish line. >> did not quite here and

answer their, do you support closing the carry interest loophole? >> i support getting the job done, and that with the steele is doing. >> but no position on the carried interest loophole at all? >> i do not have a person on the, no. >> for enough, i had to try. arizona secretary of state katie hobbs, thank you for joining us, i appreciate it. ahead, more on the breaking developments of the senate democrat reconciliation bill. but first, richard louis is here with headlines. hey richard, how is it going? >> hey sam, good to hear from you. stories we are watching this are, president biden texted a negative for covid on saturday, but he will remain in isolation pending a second negative test. biden tested positive for a rebound case of covid on july 30th. his personal physician say that he has continued to feel very well since then. ten people, including two children, are dead after a fire whipped through a home in northeastern pennsylvania on friday. officials say that the victims were related to a volunteer firefighter, who responded to that scene of the place.

the cause is under investigation. and u.s. marine corps lieutenant -- michael langley was promoted to four star general on saturday. he is the first black man to earn that distinction in the military branches 246 year history. more ayman which sam stein is right after the break. right after the break. neighborhoods "open". businesses "open". fields "open". who doesn't love "open"? offices. homes. stages. possibilities. your world. open. and you can help keep it that way. ♪♪ i would say that to me an important aspect is too... meta portal with smart sound. helps reduce your background noise. bring that sense of calm, really... so you come through, loud and clear. meta portal. the smart video calling device

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you're a cio in 2022. so what's on the agenda? threat briefings, it meetings, and lots of coffee. but with fully integrated security solutions all in one place. you're ready. comcast business. powering possibilities. ™ back now to our continuing breaking coverage of the senate vote on the inflation production act. tonight senate democrats cleared their first procedural vote with vice president kamala harris breaking the tie on a motion to proceed. the legislation would reform parts of the tax code, tackle climate change and make changes to health policies. joining me now is my sunday night panel political consultant contributor to the boston globe and host of screen share on peacock, tara setmayer, lincoln project senior adviser and former gop communications director, and president and ceo

of ford latino and an msnbc contributor. thank you all for joining me, i appreciate it. maria, let's start with you, i want to get your reaction to this tweet from joe manchin quote, my republican friends have made it clear they're completely unwilling to support this bill under any condition. none of their amendments would change that. for this reason, all vote to protect the integrity of the i.r.a. regardless of the substance of their fake amendments. putting aside the acronym i.r.a., what are your thoughts about that manchin turn about? should liberals now be incredibly grateful that he is in fact within the party tent? >> you know, i think one of the things that we are seeing with joe manchin is he is completely astonished about what happened on january six, and how much the january six committee has been able to demonstrate the complicity of his colleagues on

the republican side who are trying to undermine our democracy. i think it is that opening that has allowed schumer to come to the table with joe manchin and say wait a second, we need to legislate for the american people and demonstrate that the system of government actually works. i still think that joe manchin is on the conservative, modern barrett side of the party but that's okay, what he is bringing to the table is very much with the american people are seeing live unfold when it comes to january six, it has never sat well with him and now that we have receipts it's one of the reasons why he is saying let's continue to make sure that we have a functioning government. >> tara, i want to turn to you because you are seeped in republican politics, obviously, what i was thinking as i've watched this is in big legislative moments in past administration there was a very energized republican opposition to that, you just don't see that right now with what we are calling the ira, although we

have to come up with another name for it. i want to get your sense, what is your sense about how the politics of this play and are you surprised that there isn't more of a grassroots opposition to this bill, or is it just the part of them coming together last minute? >> well, there are few things going on here, it is true that usually mitch mcconnell is not one to do this, he is a master of political -- when it comes to the senate. oftentimes even though he is a minority leader now, he has overshadowed and outsmarted shook schumer. but not this time. because the senate parliamentarian was able to basically give democrats what they need to do to advance the majority of this bill, which means because it is under reconciliation rules, they only need 50 plus one. as opposed to other legislations in the senate where you usually need 60 votes in order to stop a filibuster, this time around, the republicans really have no

recourse at this point to stop the bill, which is why democrats were so hell-bent on making sure they got this through reconciliation and that they had manchin and sinema on board, because they couldn't afford to lose a vote. yeah, the republicans are little subdued because any tricks that they usually use or amendments that they would put in to try to delay it, all of that is over with now because the parliamentarian has ruled, so now they can move forward which is what is happening right now, and this is a big win for democrats and for president biden as far as their agenda, which is something that republicans obviously don't want going into a midterm election, where the political environment is favorable to them. >> they clearly don't want it, yes, that is true. let's get to that point, what -- where does this rank, and the other question related to it, does it have an effect on the midterms or is that cake baked because of inflation and gas prices? >> yes, that is a great question.

i think it is a significant win for the biden administration, for the democratic party, especially being less than 100 days from midterms. i think the question that i would have being a former republican strategist is whether or not democrats have the wherewithal to be able to market this in a way to energize their base even further and get them to turn out the numbers they need. particularly in swing districts when you're looking at some of those congressional races where the results are going to be very tight. i think from a republican perspective, if i was mcconnell or advising the nrcc or the gop i would focus on that, i would keep messaging about the economy, i would keep talking about gas prices, i will keep talking about inflation, i don't think it is necessary that's where most voters are, even many democratic voters and swing voters are concerned about those things. why make an uproar about something that may not have a significant impact on the midterm elections? that is the thought process that i have.

again, for democrats for not to be able to figure out two messages to the american people to say this is going to make a difference in your life, but i think the question is, sam, which republicans would probably hit back on is how soon will that difference come? are we talking about something that maybe two, 34 quarters away? which is months away going into the new year? i don't think that is a solid baurle message to say i'm okay about this, if i'm an independent voter i will vote democrat. i don't think it is enough to move the needle, maybe i'm wrong, but i don't think that i am. >> i don't know if you're wrong. and marie teresa, this is for you, one component of this bill is to extend obama care subsidies that were set to expire. so if you are a beneficiary of that, you don't actually see anything tangible, you just don't see something bad happening to, the medicare drug pricing component will likely not take effect in a significant way before the elections, but maria teresa, this is also something that democrats have campaigned, not

just for years, for decades on, and maybe there is a psychological shift that comes with passing something that the party has long called for and has never been able to do. >> i have to say that the democrats have often failed in their branding, the build back together, no one really understood what that meant, this is literally, sam, inflation reduction act, you can't get clearer about the implication of what to the bill is. >> you like the brand name? >> not the acronym, let's be clear, but the inflation production act, i have to say, whoever came up with that that is actually genius because for once they are clear about what the democrats are trying to do. and then when you try to dig into the meat and potatoes of it, for young people is going to be 375 billion dollars to address climate change, that is a huge deal for a generation of young people who have basically said i don't think i'm going to vote this election. when it comes to prescription

medicare drug pricing, you have something for the older people, and then you have talking about inflationary pressures, you have something for independents. i have to say that they have stumbled so many times but on this bill they have the messaging right and they have the issues that people need to come out to the midterms is true. i know that sure michael was talking about gas prices, they keep coming down, if in the middle of august we have low prices, what's the democrats are facing going into the fall is all the right thing. i think would happen unfortunately with mitch mcconnell, is that he was wig last for the first time in a long time, schumer outsmarted him, i don't think he knows what to do and the fact that he has mentioned next to him is a huge deal, because he speaks to independent and moderate republicans who may recognize that what is happening within the republican camp is not right, and by not right meaning it is not politics as usual, and maybe i need thick a second look at what is happening with the party and what is happening with the country. so, yeah we can do from the nuances, but the fact that they

have the messaging right on this, i think it is a good thing. we actually see systems of government work. >> the first praise for the irate i have heard. tara, i want to pick up on that, we've had i'd say like 14 to 16 months of pretty bad news for biden, the vibes have been a bit off, i would say, but then suddenly, this week, it's like boom, you have the killing of the head of al-qaeda, you have pelosi going to taiwan, you have the kansas rejection of these abortion restrictions, you have gas prices falling, you have the chips bill, you have the toxic burn legislation bill, you have the jobs number, over half 1 million jobs in july. this is a major narrative correct or that is happening in quick succession. does this actually create the type of political momentum heading into the fall, and if you are advising the white house to use a run on this and

drop, you know, anything about trump and democracy because you actually have achievements that you can use. >> well, yes and no, it depends. this obviously gives them substantive legislative accomplishments to run on which is important. you see poll after poll, the american people, on both sides of the aisle, just want congress to do something. they feel as though there's gridlock, nothing is getting done, that is frustrating to voters. when you see a number of legislative accomplishments like the ones we have seen over the last week, that is a great indicator to the voter that look, see, we are capable of getting something done, so keep us in office. this is what we can do for you, republicans were outsmarted on this and i agree with marie teresa about this, the inflation production act is a great name, and i think they took a page out of the republican book, the ability to easily message something, because it is difficult to prove a negative. whether it reduces inflation or

not, even though manchin and others have some backup from economists that this was supposed to, most people don't pay attention to those kinds of details, what they hear inflation production act, and democrats need to make ads and run on the fact that look at what we are doing. we passed this, it is the inflation production act. republicans can scream from the roof top that no it won't, it doesn't matter, most people don't hear that. this is a very good lesson for democrats to learn and they can capitalize on it, so going into the midterms, yes absolutely run on your accomplishments, i don't think they should ignore, especially of donald trump announces that he's going to run. they should not ignore with the republicans are doing, and what an existential threat republicans pose particularly to democracy, voting rights, the institution of our elections these are some very serious dangerous people who are running on the republican side in november and democrats should not shy away from defining who they are and they're extremism.

they should not shy away from that because that is the reality of it in voters need to know and face it head on and make a choice. my panel is clearly insane about the inflation production act re-branding. nevertheless, i will ask them to stick around. up next though, the right embraces authoritarianism as hungarian prime minister viktor orban speaks at cpac. at cpac i just didn't feel well. but then i found clearchoice. [ forde ] replacing marcia's teeth with dental implants at clearchoice was going to afford her that permanent solution. [ marcia ] clearchoice dental implants gave me the ability to take on the world. i feel so much better, and i think that that is the key. (fisher investments) in this market, you'll find fisher investments the ability to take on the world. is different than other money managers. (other money manager) different how? aren't we all just looking for the hottest stocks?

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that is the conservative political action conference. they defended his invitation to speak at the gathering and dallas. he did not dial it down either on thursday speech. he attacked george soros, undocumented immigrants, sin sex marriage and the transgender community. meanwhile, donald trump who literally embraced or ban this week, he just finished speaking at cpac. let's bring back our senate panel who may or may not be intoxicated. shermichael, what does it say about the conservative movement right now that orban was given the chance to deliver a keynote at cpac? >> sam, i used to go to cpac, oh god, it must have been years now. as he stated, it was a normal thing that if you were and upcoming shatter just at the rnc, it was normal to go and

work, see friends and get on the next congressional senatorial presidential races if that were your aspirations. it is changed drastically. i think about when michael still was still chair of the rnc, with the focus was at a time. we had policy debates discussing economics and the difference between capital gains tax between our democratic friends. we had conversations about immigration, about whether or not we should have strict legislation on immigration or something that falls in the middle. it's one of those common policy issues. now, we're talking about whether or not people should be able to marry each other if they are white or black. we're talking about not having a country that is no longer diverse. these things, i had to say, sam, you know this very well, these are not new discussions in our country, by the way. we have thoroughly dealt with some of these things, what, 50 years ago. my grandparents are still alive. the fact that republican party

are bringing up things from our past that i think most americans would want to move on from and heal from, if you will, shows how far beyond the pill the party's. i am a conservative. i know a lot of conservative people, sam. i don't think most of them, most, would believe in or hold those types of ideals we saw represented at cpac. the concern is that these ideas are becoming mainstream within the party. the concern is that even the wreck scotts of the world, goodness sake, if you remember him from a few years ago, are now showing up and tacitly embracing some of these ideas. that is the part, sam, that concerns me the most. not the fringe elements, there will always be instruments out there. it's when extremism becomes normalized, and even normal, same people, at least people we called sane years ago, begin to embrace these things. that is when i think we should begin to start to concern ourselves about whether or not the republican party is a

healthy party. of this republic, of this experiment. i'm not certain that it is. >> tara, you are a former republican, is this a case of the tail wag the dog? it's the majority of it represented by senior cpac with viktor orban up there? or is it the case that lawmakers feel like they have to cater to that crew, because they are the most boisterous and fervent of the activists in base? >> this is the republican party, this is the mainstream republican party, unfortunately. i know a lot of my republican friends are holdouts, hoping that one day, and the bush era republican party will return. that is dead and gone. this is not the conservative political action committee or the coup convention. this has gone mainstream, thanks to donald trump, thanks to the cowardice of the mainstream republicans that we used to know, like shermichael

and i used to look up to and respect. those folks have acquiesced to the crazy, and this is what you've gotten. if you look at the lineup of the d.c. packer mentions, these are people who are rejects, that never would have been allowed to step foot in any type of republican mainstream event. even cpac's icon to, just like shermichael, i am older than him. i have been going to cpac for a long time i have not step foot at a cpac since donald trump came on the scene, not because there are crazy, but they are unsafe for people like us to speak out about the fact that they are no longer at hearing to the constitution, speaking the truth about the lies and corruption and emirati of donald trump. we were actually unsafe doing that. the fact that anyone who considers themselves mainstream show up on the same stage as someone like the viktor orban or like steve bannon and the

other list of the generals at cpac and who were heralded, given standing or patience, those are everything you need to know about the current status of the republican party. i don't hear any mention republicans shirking as they are, speaking out against any of it. where are they? they are not going to, because they are cowards. that is why the republican party is on the road to destruction, and why book shermichael and i are no longer part of it. >> maria teresa, the defense from cpac and others involved in the planning of it said, look, viktor orban is about it, does not mean we agree with him, but he should be allowed to come here and be heard. i did not believe the suffers, but it is true, apparently, that they banned big bird and burn and ernie from attending cpac for the crime of promoting vaccines. i don't know if that is tongue-in-cheek, but there is a ban, it's their intent form. i guess my question though,

there is actually real world harm to giving a platform, right? when you feature someone like that, and they get a standing ovation for saying we don't want immigrants, that is a single to republican lawmakers, presumably that is where the verb of the party is. can you speak a little bit too deplatforming of that type of mindset within republican politics? and what it means for the political system a large? >> matt schlapp is a coward. for him to say that by performing this individual, the head of a country, and he would be a significant, equal voice, is demonstrative that he does not have the courage to say that we want him on the platform, because he exposes the republican values of today. i could not agree more with the panel senate, because this is not only dangerous, the words that he is talking about actually has real life consequences. we know from southern poverty

law center, that every single time donald trump would dissent and have a rally at lower level, crimes against immigrants and african americans would shoot up. it was almost correlated. for him to give a platform like this and not try to take responsibility for his own conference of who he gives it to, is not only nonsense but negligence. it is providing a platform that will harm people. one thing that orban actually disagree with, and consequently, i argue it, is that hungary allows people to have abortions. let's have that conversation. no, it's true, sam. you cannot have hypocrisy and only choose which part of that you want. you are a platform. so, what we see from cpac is clear and dangerous. i do hope that we come to a place where the republican party comes back to it senses and perhaps breaks off into a third party because a democracy regards to party needs ideas. we need to be in that space where, we talk about policy, not whether or not an attempted

coup was actually an attempted coup. we need people to play by the same rules. what matt slap is there were no this actually onboarding extremism that may have a direct result undermining our democracy. >> some tough words, but i appreciate it. very enough, fair enough. we have to take a break, guys. come down, maria teresa. -- have you seen an inflection point and the justice department's january six investigation? n? i don't hydrate like everyone else. because i'm not everyone else. they drink what they're told to drink. i drink what helps me rehydrate and recover: pedialyte® sport. because it works... and so do i. ♪♪ hydration beyond the hype. ♪♪

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i am cpap man. that is not a toy! or skip the in-laws. sell and buy your house with confidence with opendoor. move when you're ready. that's it. indeed. when life's doors open, we'll handle the house. justice department is now reportedly in direct talks with donald trump's legal team, regarding their january six criminal investigation. talks are around whether trump would be able to show conversations he had while president from federal investigators. also this week, the doj suit

former trump aide peter navarro to produce him to emails from a personal counsel of the used to conduct official will ask business. a federal grand jury investigating january six has subpoenaed pad cipollone, the former white house counsel. he's now the highest ranking triple to show, who worked in the final days of administration, that has been called to testify. my saturday panel is back with me. shermichael, usa today is reporting that the talks between trump's legal team and the doj center around whether trump would be able to block access to conversations with his former top aides. is this a fair use of executive privilege, or a simple if not clumsy attempt to block witnesses from testifying here? >> sam, i think it could be a combination of the two. i think we want to be careful with setting a precedent that a president did not have the right to call for --

if he has conversations with his aides or attorneys, keep those conversations private. i don't think we'd necessarily want to open that pandora's box. with that said, however, considering what they are looking into, i don't think it's a far stretch to say, hey, we need to look at what those conversations were and make movement about what time, what was discussed. i think that is fair. looking at this, i am taking attorney general is really in a tough position here, because he is the asked himself, and there was a brilliant new york times piece that came out two months ago talking about this, whether or not he will go ahead and move forward, potentially bringing charges against the former president, despite what that may mean for the country, politically. the country is already divided. tribalism is at an all-time high. would that potentially cause massive violence in the street? i don't know. at the same time, however, i think a lot of americans are going to ask, is the president above the law? do not have a country where because of your status or your

wealth you, cannot be prosecuted for potential crimes? that is certainly not the standard set that we certainly want to have in this country. i would not want to be merrick garland's situation right now. i think it is tough, one way or the other. somebody is not gonna be happier, but at the end of the day, we had to be a country about laws, about the rule of law, the moment we describe that, are we even a civilized society anymore at all? >> yeah, tara, pick up on that. obviously, merrick garland is in a bind, but this is the job, right? this is what you sign up for. you have to make these calls. ultimately, is the question not -- is the question here that the threat for potential civil unrest means that you have to suspend the idea that you believe criminal law was done -- if he does believe criminal wrongdoing was done, does he not have an obligation to do it? >> 100%.

merrick garland did what he sign up for when except the job as attorney general. do your damn job. it looks as though he's finally starting to do that. i think a lot of people have been frustrated by the pace at which the doj has operated here. it has been a glacial pace, but maryland has a reputation of being a standup guy, being very methodical and keeping leaks at bay. he has been doing this for a very long time, and understands how to do complicated, high-level investigations. we are finally starting to see some movement here. the idea that -- considering that if he invites a former president, it's never been done before, what does that do for the country? all of that conversation is to go out the window. we have never been in a situation like this, with a president that has acted with such dereliction of duty, with so many avenues a potential illegality. you've never seen anything like this. two shermichael point, if he gets away with this, and they

take into consideration well, politically -- what does that tell the american people? how do you possibly say that we are a constitutional republic and we abide by rule of law, and you let donald trump get away with this again. we already saw him get away with it under mueller. they cannot, in my opinion, they have to move forward with indicted donald trump, otherwise, i think you lose -- people will lose faith in the institutions. they already teetering. they are already on the knife's edge. i hope that merrick garland does the right thing here and pursues that. it looks like the inner circle is closing in. it is closing in on donald trump and, ultimately, i hope they get there. >> all right, shermichael singleton, tara setmayer, thank you so much. what a great group of panelists you guys were. really appreciate it. up next, a political belize plan backfired, big-time. backfired, big-time , so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready?

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years that fighting democrats on cultural wars will help them score political points, maybe even win elections. but sometimes, like john candy's car and uncle buck, those tactics can backfire, which is what happened in the case of democratic state senator, mallory mcmorrow of michigan. she became a viral sensation that they're condemning a republican colleague who falsely claimed her as a child groomer and a fund raising

email. according to politicals allen ran, that republican netted just $235, but thousand, 235 in the days after her attack email went out. mallory mcmorrow, on the other hand, raised more than $1 million in the wake of that attack. for more than 11,000 donors in all 50 states. in an interview with the new york times, morrow said that her aim with all the cash is to help flip the michigan state senate, which republicans have control since 1984. no, thank you for making time for us. i am back tomorrow night at nine eastern on msnbc. i will be speaking with congresswoman judy chu to discuss the reconciliation deal and how it is connecting with the ai pa voters. i am sam stein in for ayman mohyeldin, have a good night.

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menendez. this hour, the president and and his party on a roll.