republicans are even more likely to want to move to red states. so this is the great sort that you and i have talked about, the idealogical, geographical sorting of america. it's just becoming more intense. why this matters is it just keeps america divided. it makes it even more difficult for america to move out of these divisions when they are becoming so concentrated. interestingly enough, jonathan, this axios/ipsos polling showed the democrats are very concerned when they're moving about lgbtq protections, about abortion access, about racial equality. republicans in this poll, more interested in lower taxes. jonathan, between the lines, everyone is more likely to move for economic reasons or personal reasons for their families. >> mike allen, i am still reeling from those images you showed us. you brought the goods today.

we appreciate it. stick around. we'll talk to you again in a few minutes on "morning joe." thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. to do something with 50 votes is rough. to do small things with 50 votes is rough. to pass such a major piece of legislation with only 50 votes, republican minority, a caucus running from bernie sanders to joe manchin, wow. >> senate majority leader chuck schumer after the senate passed a sweeping climate health care and tax bill, putting democrats on the verge of another major win ahead of the midterms. republicans also scored a win for big pharma. we'll explain. donald trump's republican party gathered in dallas for cpac this weekend, where the big

lie was on full display. along with an incredibly ridiculous guest -- and this is not the one i'm talking about. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, august 8th. with joe and me, we have correspondent for bbc news katty kay. jonathan lemire is recovering from the reporting he just did on toilets. but here's the big news this morning. senate democrats have done it. after more than a year of negotiations and dead ends, democrats have passed a reconciliation package that includes a bulk of their priorities. >> the ayes are 50. nays are 50. the senate being equally divided, the vice president votes in the affirmative, and the bill as amended is passed. [ applause ] >> no republicans voted in favor of the final bill. it passed with a tie-breaking

vote from vice president kamala harris. the bill went through some last-minute changes during an overnight vote-a-rama. that process allows senators to suggest amendments to the bill before a final tally. seven democrats, including kyrsten sinema of arizona, voted in favor of a last-minute tax change introduced by republican senator john thoone. the final draft would invest more than $300 billion in the climate reform, the largest in american history. the bill allows medicare to negotiate drug prices for the first time. cutting prescription drug prices for americans 65 and older. it also adds a 15% minimum tax on large corporations. the inflation reduction act will

now head to the house. leadership there has announced lawmakers will return from the august recess on friday to vote on the bill. senate republicans were able to keep one key item out of the inflation reduction act. they voted to block a cap on insulin costs for millions of patients across the country. so they kept to their brand, let's just say. democrats tried to limit those costs at $35 for private insurers. only seven republicans joined all democrats to try and keep the cap in place. many of the 43 republicans who blocked it had a different take on this in the past, including senator joni ernst just two years ago. >> the skyrocketing costs of prescription drugs has become a matter of life and death for so many. we've heard the heartbreaking stories of individuals needing

insulin. as a result, they lost their lives. iowans have been very clear with me where they stand on this issue. >> so she cared until she didn't. that's another republican branding thing. just flip against something. the bill does include that cap for people 65 and older on medicare. joe, i just want to start with how big a win this is. the name of the bill, the inflation reduction act, everything seems to be lining up in a way that has really brought this together for democrats, hopefully, ultimately, in a way that americans can understand. that they have been working on their agenda, and they got it done. >> yeah. it's been incredible. look at the work they did -- first, with joni ernst and the other republicans that voted to

allow big pharma to keep gouging diabetes -- my son, type i diabetes. i can afford it. unfortunately, so many americans have to make really tough choices on insulin. a lot of iowans got screwed by joni ernst and americans by republicans. it's grotesque. it's absolutely grotesque. hypocrites and liars for backing down on that. but you look at what they did, mika. "the new york times" talked about how it capped a remarkably successful six-week stretch, including the approval of an industrial policy bill that bolstered american competitiveness with china. the largest expansion of veterans benefits in more than two decades. this bill achieved the democrats' longstanding goal of slashing prescription drug costs, allowing medicare for the first time to negotiate the

prices of medicine directly, and capping how much americans pay out of pocket for these drugs. $400 billion for climate and energy programs. i mean, it will allow the u.s. -- think about this -- all together to cut greenhouse gas emissions, greenhouse gas emissions by about 40% below 2005 levels at the end of the decade. look at joe biden. i know we're going to talk about this, but look at the democrats. a 50/50 split senate. you look at joe biden. suddenly, you have this huge climate change plan, this huge plan to lower drug costs, to help medicare recipients. the head of the senate is talking about increasing costs for medicare and social security and taxing poor and middle class

americans. you have this, an economic rescue plan that's led to the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years. you've got a massive, bipartisan infrastructure plan that was passed. you've got the first significant gun safety legislation passed in over a decade. the electoral act to prevent future january 6th. the china competitiveness bill. $280 billion to make sure we can have a stronger semiconductor manufacturing base in america, so we're not dependent on china. confirmation of the first black woman to the u.s. supreme court. and then this package, mika, which is landmark. >> yeah. >> there is no doubt, you look at what happened in the ten years before joe bidenstepped into the white house. the last six years of obama's

administration and trump's time in the white house, joe biden has done more than them, not combined. two, three, four, five, six, seven times. this has been an extraordinarily successful two years, legislatively. any way you cut it, even republicans have to admit this privately, and they are. it's been a hell of a run. >> it has. i want to develop on that point and then back up and look at how this all happened, especially with this package, which is landmark, as you said, joe. first of all, you're right, for joe biden, think about it, pull out 20,000 feet. world stage, preventing a nuclear war. preventing world war iii. check. covid, he survived it, two bouts of it, never went to the hospital. covid is under control, and this president, unlike the former president who always talks about his strength, who had to be shipped off quickly to the hospital and pumped with all sorts of crazy drugs.

check. this is all global. this president checked it off, and there is more. then you move to domestic and look at this huge accomplish accomplishment. i just have to question members of congress on the democratic side who are jus like flies to the fly strip to the latest polls of today. i think, why are you being so transactional? don't you have a mind that can pull out 20,000 feet and look at what this president has accomplished? because these poll numbers, if you look at history and you look at how americans feel when they see accomplishments piling up, they tend to see what a president has accomplished. they see it in their pocketbook. by the way, gas prices plummeting. i mean, it is all moving in joe biden's direction. he's got his aviators on, and he's just getting it done. while even people in his own party are questioning whether or

not he ought to run for president. i'm not advocating here, i'm just looking at the facts. i'm looking at a republican party that is a bunch of lunatics who are taking away women's rights and have one crazy notion after another, just crazy, out of their minds, and no points on the board. let's bring in co-founder of "axios," mike allen. co-founder of punch bowl news. how did the democrats get this over the line? >> once joe manchin was aboard, that was the big moment. of course, there was kyrsten sinema in as. but manchin was the key. manchin had stopped the build back better act in december. he was worried about cost. he was difficult throughout the spring and into the summer. worried about inflation rising. worried about deficits. but once -- and then this fell

apart again, then schumer, to his credit, you know, said, we're going ahead with a narrower bill. it'll do medicare, prescription drugs. we'll go ahead with a narrow bill. once he got to that, manchin took that personally and said, no, i still want a deal. behind the scenes, the white house had reached out to him a little bit. they talked to him a little bit, but it was really chuck schumer. schumer deserves enormous credit here. he kept the lines of communication open with manchin, and then once he had manchin, he was able to focus on sinema and address her concerns about taxation. schumer deserves an enormous amount of credit here. you have to give chuck schumer a lot of props for working his members. that's what he does. he may not be the greatest floor leader in history, but he's damn good with his members. >> yeah. hey, mike allen, tell me, what's

happened over the past couple weeks? can you put it into perspective? i go back to reagan's early days in the early part of his administration, passing a lot of bills. when is the last time we have seen so much legislation get through, especially in this very, very partisan washington, d.c. environment? >> that's right, joe. we could debate whether biden was trying to be more like lbj or fdr, but they both had such better congressional majorities than he did. so this was a real henry ending, who switched before the midterms. someone pointed out this inflation reduction act was the opposite of build back better. build back better had so much buildup. we covered all of the ins and outs of it, then it had this

apocalyptic collapse. whereas, this appeared out of nowhere one evening. a press release out of manchin's office, quickly endorsed by schumer, then moved sumer quickly in a way that almost nothing does on capitol hill. the bottom line, people in the white house say this is no lucky break. this is the president putting out an economic theory. you heard him say in the state of the union, bottom-up, middle-out, not top-down. this is a vindication of slow patience, eye on the prize. >> wow. >> i mean, you know what, mike allen brings up lbj. katty kay, not a coincidence, lbj also a creature of the senate, something joe biden has been criticized for. but you look at this landmark legislation, then you stack on top of that ttruman-esque efforts. the historic expansion of nato. what he has been doing with

ukraine. walking the finest of lines, preventing world war iii, while taking the lead around the world in defending freedom in ukraine and central and eastern europe. suddenly, you're like, well, maybe senators do know how to do this job. >> yeah. i mean, joe biden is certainly spearheading the efforts in europe. he has motivated european partners. he was there right at the beginning, as the russians were invading, sharing u.s. intelligence in an unprecedented way with european allies, in order to get them on board, in order to get skeptical europeans who didn't believe there was going to be an invasion, if there was going to be an invasion, it'd be small, he pushed that. you have to think back to previous presidents and wonder whether they would have done as much as joe biden has done, both in terms of the spending. america's spending compared to european spending has been by multiple factors in terms of military hardware and support for ukraine. he has really driven this

effort, and he's used his years on the foreign relations committee, of course, as a foreign policy expert. remember, joe biden really was a creature of the foreign policy establishment in russia for -- in washington for decades. he's used that when it comes to ukraine. on this, in a sense, what he's done in the last few weeks is let chuck schumer take the lead. this creature of the senate has also known when it was more useful for him to step back from the senate and let chuck schumer take the lead. it's chuck schumer who deserves much of the credit on the democratic side for what was signed into law this weekend. >> all right. mike allen, thanks very much. john bresnahan, thank you, as well, for giving us the latest on how this happened over the weekend. then there is this, there was more news over the weekend. election deniers and conspiracy theorists took center stage at

cpac in dallas over the weekend. from marjorie taylor greene to the my pillow guy to candidates who won recent primaries after supporting the big lie, the event was in full propaganda mode. featuring donald trump as rambo. ew. a mock january 6th rioter crying inside a jail cell. the room was packed with right-wing buzzwords and violent rhetoric. >> in the senate every day, i represent 30 million texans. my job, it's like the old roman coliseum. you slam on a breast plate and grab a battle ax and fight the barbarians. and as they say in the military world, it is a target rich environment. >> we are at war. we're at a political and idealogical war. you can say anything else you

want about it, but we're at war. think about after high noon on the 20th of january 2021. when an illegitimate imposter took over 1600 pennsylvania avenue and took over an administration. >> and donald trump was the headliner saturday evening at cpac. the former president used his speech to spread lies about the 2020 election. and false claims of rampant voter fraud. he also took on the inflation reduction act, specifically targeting democrats senators joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. ♪ i love this land ♪ >> i said this was going to happen. joe manchin is devastating west virginia. kyrsten sinema agreed to allow this massive tax increase just yesterday to go forward, only provided that wall streeters are allowed to keep their current

carried interest provision. it's a hell of a provision. >> the annual political conference is attended by conservative activists and elected officials from across the u.s. and beyond. joe, i just have no words. i have no words. ted cruz's language in the age of mass shootings. >> i have a few words. >> take it away. >> i have a few words for what we just heard. it is a fat, bloated, 1977 era style elvis routine. playing hits from the past, halfhearted, half-assed, and the audience is just there going through the motions. look at that. it's just pathetic. it's sad. here's a guy who, after he passed the grossest tax cut package ever for the richest

billionaires and multi-national corporations in the world, he flew down to mar-a-lago that night and said to his billionaire friends sitting around his table, "i just made all of you a lot richer today." i think most working class americans, most middle class americans are really glad that some of -- that the very pieces of legislation he helped pass, the tax bill he helped pass, the provisions that allowed the biggest multinational corporations in the world to pay zero in taxes, those bills got stripped. as far as steve bannon goes, yeah, we are at war. we are at war politically with guys like steve bannon. freedom loving americans, americans who believe in the constitution, steve bannon is a guy who said his hero was vladimir putin. said before he even got into the trump white house he wanted to tear everything down. he wanted to tear the state

down. he wanted to destroy the state. he said that before donald trump was sworn into office. well, that's exactly what he tried to do. please, take that picture down. can you take that down for me? >> do people know he doesn't look like that? >> take that down. >> i don't know. >> the thing is, again, you know, katty kay, all of these clowns, they're all under investigation. not those three people sitting on the stage, but donald trump, steve bannon. i mean, how many times has steve bannon been indicted? i'm going to need to get a calculator just to keep up with it. trump, he's got so many investigations going on. he's going to end up getting indicted. this is -- i guess the biggest shock is that this is who cpac is now embracing. once a place where ronald reagan went, now a place where former, current, and future indicted,

anti-democratic thugs go. >> yeah, and orban showing up from hungary was the icing on the cake. indicted, absolutely. donald trump, investigated. steve bannon indicted, as you say. it doesn't, though, joe, in states like arizona, seem to mean that donald trump and his message is any less popular with the conservative wing of the republican party. one of the things when i was traveling around the country that struck me as interesting is that, you know, the big question, i think, heading into 2022, but heading into 2024, as well, is, is the genie out of the trump bottle, if you like? even if donald trump were not to win, to what extent is trumpism, whatever that means -- and i'm never entirely sure if you can define trumpism in terms of actual conservative policy or policy at all, for that matter -- is trumpism still alive and well?

the degree to which conservative republicans who love donald trump define their entire political agenda right now on the notion that the last election was stolen is really striking. it's not about policies. it's not about conservatisms. it's simply about the idea they were robbed. this sense of grievance that donald trump perpetuated. that he was wrongfully denied a seat in the presidency in 2020 has spread like wildfire and replaced everything else. you hear it when donald trump speaks. you hear it when he speaks at cpac. that is it. that's his message at the moment. his message was the election was stolen. i don't know. i mean, you are always the one who said that american elections are about looking forwards. they are about conveying a sense of optimism. when donald trump spoke in washington, we didn't hear that. when donald trump speaks at cpac, we don't hear that. it's just about the past, and i

was robbed. that's pretty much it. >> on a related note, michigan's attorney general is requesting a special prosecutor being involved in a case surrounding her republican, trump-backed opponent who is at the center of a voting systems breach investigation. "politico" reports that a month's long probe by the state police led to matthew diperno, accused of tampering and seizing voting machines in several counties. joining us now, washington correspondent heidi prprzybyla. what do we know? >> imagine you're the attorney general conducting a criminal investigation, and the evidence trail leads to your competitor. that is what we have here. we obtained documents last night alleging that the gop nominee for attorney general orchestrated an illegal campaign

to obtain and tamper with voting machines throughout michigan. specifically, it is alleged he was present, at least among the evidence, in an oakland county hotel room, during which those tabulators were tampered with. that he is a, quote, prime instigator of this scheme, mika. also, the machines showed up later in a lawsuit that he used, one of the lawsuits trying to cast doubt on the credibility of the election. these tabulators showed up in an exhibit, in a subpoena, in his lawsuit. amazingly, last night, mika, i also went onto his law firm's website and saw tabulators with red duck tape over them being messed with during a one america news special exclusive. it is unclear whether those are the same tabulators. but to wrap this all up, mika, this is the man that donald trump wants to become the next top law enforcement official in michigan. michigan, again, was a main theater for some of the most

bitter fights over the last election. within that, matt diperno could be a stage manager. he launched this lawsuit in the county, which was used all across the country in lawsuits. it even showed up in a draft executive order that donald trump was working on to seize voting machines. that executive order never actually came out, but diperno was there, as well, on the state department on january 6th, mika. >> heidi, thank you for your reporting this morning. ahead on "morning joe," a republican lawmaker warns her party about the possible consequences of taking extreme positions on abortion. it comes as a red state passes a near total ban on the procedure. the first since roe was overturned. also ahead, there are fears of a nuclear catastrophe in ukraine following attacks near a critical power plant.

retired four-star navy admiral james stavridis joins us with analysis. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." which side are you on? americans who believe liberty and justice are for all, or traitors inciting violence against our country

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and a fresh batch of wireframes. and you can find her, and millions of other talented pros, right now on upwork.com 31 past the hour. china is expanding its show of force after house speaker nancy pelosi visited the self-governing island of taiwan. china announced several days of live fire drills following pelosi's visit. that saw the regional power fire ballistic missiles into waters near taiwan, the first time since the 1996 taiwan strait crisis. the drills, which were originally due to end yesterday,

are the largest china has ever held in the taiwan strait. we'll be following that. turning now to the war in ukraine, where russian forces over the weekend allegedly targeted europe's largest nuclear power plant, raising fears of radiation leaks. ukraine and russia traded accusations over the shelling. ukrainian officials say russian rockets on saturday hit the power plant in zaporizhzhia in the southeast, damaging three radiation sensors and injuring a person. officials say the attack risked a nuclear disaster. and a catastrophic leak was, quote, miraculously avoided. for days now, experts have warned that intense fighting around the plant poses a grave threat. russian forces have controlled that plant since march, using it as a base to launch artillery attacks on nearby ukrainian-controlled towns. moscow, however, denies carrying out the attack and blamed

ukraine. joe, this is moscow just getting as close as they can to something that, you know, could be catastrophic, could be -- could change the world. >> it's more of the same. they're reckless. they're irresponsible. they're war criminals. it's just -- i mean, war criminals are going to act like war criminals. this is just one more example of it. let's bring in right now former nato supreme allied commander, retired four-star admiral james stavridis. also chief international -- he does so many things. i can't even name them all. admiral, let me ask you first about taiwan and china. tensions continue to rise there. what's your latest take on all of the drills that china is conducting around taiwan? >> i think we were all hoping that this would kind of come to

an end, the exercises, the drills, the live fire elements of it, after the conclusion of the sunday deadline china had given itself to finish it. the bad news, joe, is within the matter of a few hours ago, they've announced an extension. they're not continuing the missiles, the naval gunfire. they're shifting to undersea warfare. if you're a merchant captain and, you know, i'm a former sea captain, you're a merchant with no defenses, you really don't want to go through anywhere near something like that, in case a torpedo comes your way. unfortunately, it appears this is going to go on for a few more days. at the end of this process, however, iss tensions are going to ease. china will have made its point. xi does not want an exchange of ordinance, if you will, with the

united states. he's got big fishnother couple d tensions to go down, joe. >> i'm curious, what have you learned from this? just looking at the chinese, looking how they've responded, what have you learned from china, and what is your current take on the possibilities of china moving on taiwan, especially given just how badly the russian invasion of ukraine has gone? >> it is correct to say that we have learned a lot about what it might look like if china decided to attack. it'll probably start with some kind of a blockade. it'll start with long-range missile attacks. they've shown us that. now, they're showing the anti-submarine warfare and the anti-surface ship warfare. frankly, we're getting a good look at what their ideas might be. joe, despite a lot of analysis that says a war is eminent, i don't think so. i think if you're president xi, you're watching ukraine and asking yourself, number one, are

my generals as bad as those russian generals appear to be? all trained in the same systems. number two, you're asking, i wonder if those taiwanese will fight the way the ukrainians are. most observers think they will. number three, you're asking yourself, you know, the west has hung together here pretty well, arming the ukrainians, creaing sanctions. would that unity be germain if i attack taiwan? bottom line, i think in china, in beijing, president xi is less enthusiastic, shall we say, about a military option here, having watched ukraine. >> admiral, let's talk a little bit more about ukraine and, specifically, about this nuclear plant in zaporizhzhia. both sides seem to be blaming the others for shelling near the plant. how concerned are you that this could, as zelenskyy is saying, amount to some kind of a nuclear disaster? are we in a very precarious situation at the moment? >> unfortunately, we are.

there's roughly 200 containers of spent nuclear fuel. if an explosion occurred directly on those -- and these are not in buildings, even as hardened as the nuclear power plant itself. you could have a release of nuclear material. think chernobyl. that's pretty bad, obviously. certainly, putin is using this to frighten the europeans. he's also wanting to continue to control the area around the nuclear power plant, to use it as a base, because he thinks the ukrainians will not attack it. then, thirdly, he's thinking to himself, i can knock down the ukrainian infrastructure. ukraine has five nuclear power stations. 15 nuclear power plants. they get a lot of their heating, a lot of their energy comes from nuclear. putin would like to take that

away. controlling that plant looks very tasty to him. i think he is going to continue to use this, and as joe said a moment ago, this is war crimes 101. it's attacking critical infrastructure in a way that could risk, frankly, large portions of eastern europe. >> all right. retired four-star navy admiral, james stavridis, thank you so much for being on this morning. we'll be following and monitoring the very latest in ukraine, specifically around the nuclear power plant. coming up, one of the most criticized actions of the trump administration was the separation of migrant children from their families at the border. now, an extensive investigation is bringing more of that policy to light. what led to it? how did they talk about this? we'll talk to the reporter behind this investigation next on "morning joe." also ahead, a conversation on extremism in the republican

party. one of our next guests says it didn't start with donald trump and it won't end with him either. "morning joe" is back in just a moment. ing something about it. the inflation reduction act will reduce costs for millions of families. it lowers the cost of drugs and ramps up production of american-made clean energy. that means lower energy bills for families, jobs for our communities, and the boldest plan to take on climate change we've ever seen. the inflation reduction act will “bring relief to millions of people” congress: let's pass it. >> tech: cracked windshield? trust safelite. we'll replace your glass and recalibrate your vehicle's camera, so automatic emergency braking and lane departure warning work properly. don't wait--schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ so we need something super distinctive... dad's work, meet daughter's playtime. thankfully, meta portal auto pans and zooms

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i will never understand how some of the people behind this, who stood up for this, who spoke for this, especially at the department of homeland security, can get up and go to work every day and look in the mirror, knowing this has happened and there is no effort being made to fix it, not one. >> well, and how many supporters of donald trump, who claimed to have certain value systems, how they have allowed children to be ripped from their mothers' arms, be locked away, and have this part of the trump administration's policy, actively separating children from their mothers. >> more than three years ago on

this show, we talked about the trump administration's family separation policy and how many people were complicit in traumatizing countless children who tried to cross the border. this morning, we're learning a lot more. a brand-new 18-month investigation by the "atlantic" titled "we need to take away children." the piece shows how separating children from their parents wasn't an unintended side effect of the plan, it was the plan. again, we need to take away children. there they are. key officials from the trump years, anticipated the worst that could happen and ignored it when it did. how the policy could make a comeback if the people behind it return to power. joining us now, the author of the piece, staff writer at the "atlantic," caitlin dickerson. thank you for coming on and for

this reporting. i'd like to start there, with what did you find out about -- and we know where donald trump and steven miller and folks in the inner circle stood on this. we can go over it, but what'd you find out about different cabinet secretaries and people lower to mid-level jobs, did they say anything to try and stop this? was anybody flagging this policy as cruel? >> no one in the trump administration's bureaucracy was surprised that the president and that people like miller were pushing for very harsh enforcement policies. family separation being probably the pinnacle of that. what i was interested in reporting this story is how it came to be. knowing you can't have a policy like this that impacts thousands of families with just a couple of political supporters. you need the members of the

bureaucracy, and you also need the top political appointees of the administration, many of whom, you know, say they don't personally espouse these harsh views on enforcement. what happened was that they didn't stand up and they didn't push back and they didn't listen to red flags that were being raised from people who worked below them, from the subject matter experts who sit in apolitical roles, many of whom have served under multiple administrations. they make up the vast majority of our executive branch, right? it's not just political appointees. it is mostly these apolitical subject matter experts. when these folks raise red flags and said, you know, not only is this policy unethical, it is unfeasible, not practically possible for us to do this without losing track of parents and children, those warnings were ignored because of the immense pressure that these political appointees faced from their bosses.

>> so was the strategy to traumatize? was that verbalized, as we quoted coming into this? secondly, i was very critical of people like the head of dhs. did they make a concerted effort to try and stop this? did anybody speak out? >> so tom homan, serving as the head of i.c.e. but was, throughout his adult life, anne immigration enforcement officer , he came up with an idea to separate families as a deterrent. the goal, in a sense, was to traumatized, but in law enforcement, there's the idea you introduce harsh consequences against one person so you discourage 10 more or 100 more from doing the same thing. so the focus actually wasn't really on the thousands of families that were separated. they were seen as, you know, unfortunate but necessary casualties, people who had to suffer in order to secure the

border. it's a culmination of this strategy known as prevention by deterrence, which has really dominated the immigration enforcement apparatus since 9/11. as border crosses increased, so, do, did these consequences, that leaders in law enforcement came up with. but the problem is that there's not a whole lot of evidence that these efforts actually work, nor are they, of course, worth it when you're talking about taking thousands of children away from their parents, some of whom are still separated today. >> great reporting you've got here, including the details about how some i.c.e. officials and even people in the dhs were disappointed when families got reunited too quickly. they felt that undermined the whole deterrence program. that in and of itself is remarkable. that you had people there in the dhs, when they saw some families were being reunited, disappointed, not pleased the kids were getting back with

their parents. talk a little bit about the sort of different attitudes within the trump administration, or, rather, some of the duplicity from some people in the trump administration. it seems from your reporting almost as if people like stephen miller, who really believed in this program, was slightly misleading other members of the administration, kirstjen nielsen being one at dhs, or at least not giving them all of the information or all of the accurate information in order to get this policy through and implemented. is that right? >> that's right. it wasn't just stephen miller, it was people like tom homan, who i mentioned, who was the head of i.c.e., kevin mcaleenan. in conversations with kirstjen nielsen, who was the dhs secretary, who is the highest ranking law enforcement official who is responsible for this and signed off on it, there is no getting around it. but what i learned, which is important, is she wasn't given good information. she was told that processes were

in place that would allow for the swift reunification of children and parents within a few days after prosecutions of parents took place. which, as you pointed out, was this argument that came up. when the public finally came to understand that thousands of families had been separated after many months of being completely misled about it, the administration changed course and started to say, well, prosecution was the goal, not separation. that wasn't the case. kirstjen nielsen was given bad information. part of that is what led to her signing this off. >> wow. staff writer at the "atlantic," caitlin dickerson, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. still ahead, the latest from capitol hill following a huge win for democrats and for president biden's domestic agenda. senator chris murphy joins us to talk about the sweeping climate and economic package now headed to the house. the inflation reduction act.

plus, we're joined by indiana state representative rita fleming, as her state becomes the first since the overturning of roe to pass a near total ban on abortion. "morning joe" will be right back. welcome to allstate where anyone who bundles their home and auto insurance saves. isn't that right phil? sorry, i'm a little busy. what in the world are you doing? i'm in the metaverse, bundling my home and auto insurance. why don't you just do that in the real world? um, because now i can bundle in space. watch this. save up to 25% when you bundle home and auto. call a local agent or 1-888-allstate for a quote today.

live look at the white house. beautiful day as the sun comes up over washington. president biden and the first lady are scheduled to travel to kentucky today, where they are expected to join governor andy bashir to view damage from the storms and meet families impacted by the devastating floods there. the national weather service says flooding in the area remains a threat, warning of more thunderstorms through thursday. at least 37 people have died

since last month's months, which dropped more than 10 inches of rain in 48 hours. since then, biden has expanded federal disaster assistance to the state, ensuring the federal government will cover the cost of debris removal and other emergency measures. this will be the president's first trip since he tested positive for covid 15 days ago. the teacher shortage in america has reached crisis levels, and school officials across the country are scrambling to ensure that as students begin to return to classrooms, someone will be there to educate them. state and district level reports detail staffing gaps that stretch to the thousands and continue to remain open as summer rapidly comes to a close. experts attribute the crisis to pandemic-related exhaustion, low pay, and the escalating

educational culture war that has, in some states, restricted what teachers can say in the classroom. joe, this is such a frustrating situation. i read one story about a teacher leaving his job to go work at a big box store because he got paid better. >> well, and that's the thing. we can talk about culture wars. we can talk about all of these issues. we can talk about how teachers haven't been treated well in the classrooms. that's been the case for a very long time. but we have a teacher shortage. we have a pilot shortage. we have a worker shortage. companies that you've been working with, mika, mom and pop outfits you and your family have been working with for 50 years had to shut down this summer. workers just, you know -- >> aren't showing up. >> they're in different places. if there is a problem, and there is a real problem. we talked about it this weekend. america's air system is broken. it's absolutely -- everybody we

know can't get to where they're trying to go to on planes. you know what? the corporation -- the huge, massive corporations, the airlines that we taxpayers bailed out and gave them billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars just so they could fire -- or send their pilots on their way and save money, they need to be forced to rehire pilots with those tax dollars and give them a hike in pay. guess what? we won't have a pilot shortage. it's the same thing with teachers. raise teachers' pay. >> yeah. >> pay them a good wage. more than just a living wage. pay them a good wage, and, guess what? they won't be leaving to go work for hamburger joints because they're getting paid more there. pay your teachers as if they hold future of america in their hands, because they do. >> correct. >> because they're teaching tomorrow's leaders.

>> for sure. joe, on the airline situation, which we'll be covering extensively throughout the morning today, we did have transportation secretary pete buttigieg on the show about a week ago. he said that things were getting better. the airlines are meeting -- >> no, they're not. >> no, they're not. that's what i was going to say. >> i was -- i was dumbfounded, mika. maybe you can explain it. i wasn't on the show that day. i was dumbfounded that he said things were getting better, when literally everybody we know who has tried to -- >> every single flight. >> -- get somewhere in a commercial flight over the past month haven't -- they've either been delayed or the pilots haven't shown up or there is an air traffic problem. >> it doesn't work. >> it's insane. our system is the worst. our air system is the worst it's been in my lifetime. >> yeah. >> for pete buttigieg to say that everything is okay, that's a serious problem, pete. hey, pete, if you think it is getting better, you need to try

to fly every day. you need to get on the commercial flight every day, pete, mr. secretary, and i promise you, by the end of the week, heads will roll in the transportation department. you will be talking to the head of delta and american and united and telling them what they need to do to get this system fixed. i mean, the next time the airliners come for a bailout, we should tell them to drop dead. because they screwed americans. >> all right. >> they have screwed passengers trying to get home to see their families, trying to get their kids home in time for school. it's a nightmare out there. >> it is at an emergency proportion, for sure. i think the message has been sent. we'll be talking about this more. coming up, senate democrats finally pass a major bill to address key pieces of president biden's agenda. we'll break down what's in the historic inflation reduction act. also ahead, a look at the

growing divide between america's political parties. we'll talk to a pulitzer prize winner who says it comes down to education. tomorrow on "morning joe," house speaker nancy pelosi is our guest. we have a lot to talk with her about. "morning joe" is back in one minute. ♪♪

a beautiful day in washington, d.c., as the sun comes up over the potomac. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, august 8th. happy birthday, kate. president biden -- >> i think as we look at washington, d.c., mika -- and,

by the way, yes, happy birthday, dear. happy birthday, kate. as we look at washington, d.c., this is the view you see as you're flying into washington national. i'm dead serious. pete buttigieg, i don't know where he is, but whatever he is doing, nothing is as important as him getting on commercial airlines. he needs to book the flights himself, then he needs to get on a commercial airline and needs to fly it every single day for at least a week. and he needs to take notes. maybe he doesn't tell them his real name. maybe he books it under another name. he needs to go and see. go through tsa. he needs to look at the chaos in the airports. he needs to see the families desperate to get home to take care of their children or desperate to get home to take care of their aging parents. the parents desperate to get home, to get their kids ready

for college. he needs to see how they sit there day after day. does pete buttigieg know most people now have to buy two or three tickets because they know the first flight is going to cancel? >> if they can. >> pete, do you know that? do you know the first flight now, americans are assuming that we're flying around in a third world country and that the first flight is not going to take off. because there aren't enough pilots. there are not enough flight attendants. >> or will be redirected. >> yeah, or you'll be redirected. you won't be able to land in your city. do you know that, pete? you need to explain to americans, pete, what the hell is going on out there. the skies aren't friendly, my friend. they're not even close to friendly. they are a nightmare. and i say that, mika and i say that as two people who decided early on, we are going to sit tight this summer because we knew it was going to be this bad. some people can't do that.

some people are traveling around. their jobs, livelihoods depend on this, pete, and it is a living hell out there. as transportation secretary, you've got to do more than just cut ribbons and show up and talk about the money that's being spent by washington. i'm glad it is. our infrastructure sucks. i'm glad we had a bipartisan infrastructure bill, but you need to get on airplanes, commercial airplanes, every single day, and see how bad it is out there for working americans. it's a nightmare. >> okay. you that you got that off your chest. president biden and democrats -- >> hold on, mika. do you agree with me or not? >> i do. i do. i think you make a really good point. i think you've driven it into the ground, but having said that, everybody that i know in my life, friends, family, we had a death in the family this summer, it is hard to get anywhere. you can't get anywhere. you can't even get off the ground. if you do, you end up getting

redirected with no explanation. if you go to an airport, you don't even book a flight. if you went to an airport, you would see thousands of people on their phones trying to figure out how to get where they were going because there was a problem. that's not improvement. that's not even close. and the problem is multifaceted. it is not just the airlines. it's airports. it's labor. it is a huge after effect of covid, the labor shortage, inflation, supply and demand, and it is a huge problem still today. it is a huge problem. >> and let -- >> so -- >> let's just put it on the table. it's about greedy airlines that got bailed out. they get billions of dollars from taxpayers. billions of dollars. what did they do? they didn't give their employees more money. they started paying people off to get them to quit so they could get those billions of

dollars and make even more money. so now, covid lifts, people are traveling again, and they don't have the pilots because they got their billions in bailouts and decided to use it to be even more greedy. so they're screwing their customers every single day. it's americans who are paying for it. it is really outrageous. >> we'll be continuing to follow this. we actually will have a live report coming up on "morning joe" on exactly what the state of the situation is across the country for air travel. our top story this morning is president biden's big win. thedemocrats, as well, set to add up another big win. unemployment is up, the leader of al qaeda is dead, and the fight against climate change is very much alive. katty kay is still with us. joining the conversation, we have professor of history at tulane university, walter

isaacson. and the host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton joins us this morning. so after more than a year of stops and starts, democrats have passed a reconciliation package that includes a bulk of their priorities, on climate, health care, and taxes. it passed with no republican support and a tie-breaking vote from vice president kamala harris. the final draft of the bill, the inflation reduction act, would invest more than $300 billion in climate reform. the largest in american history. the bill allows medicare to negotiate drug prices for the first time, cutting prescription drug prices for americans 65 and older. it also adds a new 15% minimum tax on large corporation. the inflation reduction act now heads to the house, where

lawmakers will return from the august recess on friday to vote on the bill. joe, break it down for us. number one, this success for president biden, what it means, and for democrats moving forward to the midterms. >> it is nothing short of extraordinary in a town right now that, if you're a republican, you have a lot of people in your base saying that joe biden wasn't even elected president. they're conspiracy theorists, freaks, insurrectionists, weirdos. the fact that we've seen as much passed over the past several years as we have -- and i must say, also, kyrsten sinema, i guess she calls herself a democrat. the fact she was working for some of the richest people on wall street over the weekend, just fighting like hell against them having to pay their fair share, it shows you what a difficult job joe biden and chuck schumer and nancy pelosi have had, trying to cobble together 50 votes for this

landmark reconciliation package. it is landmark because, you know, joe biden was able to do, with the help of chuck schumer, the senate, nancy pelosi in the house, able to do what republicans claimed they wanted to do forever. that is to actually make medicare compete. make drug companies negotiate with medicare. it is a socialist scheme. it is a socialist scheme that republicans are for. they're socialists when it comes to big pharma and competition, when it comes to making big pharma compete on medicare pricing. joe biden broke through that, along with chuck schumer, nancy pelosi, good for them. then you add that with the historic climate change bill. we're going to cut greenhouse emissions by 40% because of this bill. 40% in the next decade over what it was in 2005. i promise you, republicans in washington don't get that. most republicans i talk to around the rest of the country,

they understand climate change is a growing crisis. they're waking up to the fact because their children are wide awake in america. they understand just how bad it is. you look at the other things that were passed here. you add that, rev, on top of an infrastructure bill, bipartisan infrastructure bill that passed on top of the president's success in ukraine. it has been an extraordinary success in ukraine, a bipartisan success in ukraine, just like the bipartisan infrastructure bill, just like the bipartisan chips act. we're actually competing against china now moreeffectively. there were a lot of republicans that were for china and didn't want us to be able to compete more effectively against china. but he passed that. you look at the bipartisan gun law. most significant in 10, 20 unbe. i was in florida. gas prices below $4 in parts of florida. it just keeps dropping.

and the jobs numbers, they're just insane. i mean, they're pre-pandemic low. we now have more people in the workforce today than we had before covid, rev. add all of it up, it is a hell of a month. >> he -- >> he hasn't done all this in a month, but add up what has been done in a month and the last year and a half, nobody expected that in a divided city like washington, d.c., that he'd be able to do more than barack obama and donald trump combined, legislatively, in obama's last six years and trump's four years. >> no doubt about it, he's had a great stretch, and particularly in a midterm year. and i think that he's left the opposition to only be able to come with these bizarre kind of conspiracy theories because they can't argue against the record. each of the areas that you named capped off by this bill gives

them great standing, probably a unique historic standing in terms of a president sitting in office in the majority party during midterm elections. the question is whether he can have this content rise above the noise, which is what is going to drive a lot of the opposition base, the far right maga party, because it is no longer the republican party. now, they have those in the house that are going to raise legitimate questions. i know on the policing side, they want to see some safeguards there in terms of training and some accountability. i think it will pass the house, and he will have had a string from killing one of the al qaeda leaders to what is going on with gas prices to almost doubling the expected number of jobs created last month that economists predicted. i think biden is on a roll, as we would say in sports. >> you know, walter, you look at

the republicans' response. my god, they're against capping -- they're against letting medicare negotiate. they're against capping insulin cost at $35, when big pharma is price gouging people like my son, who is type i diabetes. i can pay for it. they can't. republicans against 10-year-olds who have been raped by being able to end that pregnancy. they're -- you know, they're against -- you look at texas. they're trying to stop mothers from being protected on operating tables when they're about to die. it's crazy. then you add all of the things they were against in this bill, and i'm focusing in on that $35 cap on insulin. i've seen it. i can afford it, obviously. no concern for me. but because people know my son

is a diabetes, they come up and talk to me. they talk about how crushing it is that big pharma is price gouging them. insulin is the same as it's always been. the price is just skyrocketed because big pharma knows they can get away with it. it is price gouging. republicans support that. they're against climate and energy investment. they're against a minimum tax on corporations. they want the biggest multinational corporations to keep paying zero dollars. they're against deficit reduction, of course. the deficit went up more in trump's term than anybody else's. so, again, it seems that the republicans have just become a parody of what liberals have always accused them of being. >> yeah, i think what you've seen, too, is that chuck schumer outmaneuvered the republicans in the senate and forced them to go on the record the way you said. it's part of something larger and more historic in american politics, which is, it used to

be that you could find these bills and you would find republicans and democrats trying to work together. when you were in the house, you remember, most of those bills had two names on top of it. one was democratic, one was republican. the fact that the republicans are against anything that the democrats could propose in a reconciliation bill like this is bad. on the other hand, we've seen the glimmers of hope with the chips act, the gun reform, and the other things. with the house probably going republican -- i mean, who knows now -- it'll be interesting because joe biden's strength is an ability to bring people together. it'll be interesting to see if in the second part of his first term, he's able to do things that actually bring republicans aboard. >> well, that's another point in terms of joe biden's sort of points on the board, his accomplishments since he became president. i mean, what democrats who seem to have a hard time answering

the question, should he run again, might want to think about is that he beat donald trump. he did all the things we listed today. and he did that during what we could call one of the most divisive moments in modern history. where we are debating the truth with some republicans, and republicans who are being elected now to offices up and down the ballot. it is something to be recognized that will ultimately add up for the american people, the inflation reduction act. now, candidates that push the big lie, the ones i was just discussing, are winning republican primaries across the country. people basically mounting their whole campaign on a lie. more and more, the republican party is being run by extremists who advocate dismantling the system to meet their ends.

but when did this really all begin? was it with trump? author dana mibank argues it wasn't donald trump or the january 6th insurrection. he argues the move to the extreme right can be traced back decades. joining us now, columnist for the "washington post," dana milbank, author of destructionists: the 25-year crackup of the republican party." thank you for being on. >> thank you. >> it wasn't trump that got us here. many would argue it was an atmosphere that allowed trump to take advantage of the situation. can you describe where this all began? >> well, look, it'll be, to some extent, arbitrary, but i take it back to 1994, newt gingrich's revolution. you were talking about republicans standing against

everything, just sort of throwing sand in the gears of whatever is happening. that's when it really began, the idea is to scream and yell and oppose. that's when the era of shutdowns began the end of the budgeting. actually in the book, i talk to, way back then in 1998, a young congressman by the name of joe scarborough. he'd gotten involved with the coup against newt. at one point he said, we have to make a choice. are we going to govern effectively or go into the minority? i choose to govern. i think that's exactly what joe scarborough was talking about a moment ago, is his fellow republicans left him at that point and decided not to govern. they didn't necessarily go into the minority. they did for a period of time. more than that, they realized how they could continue to return to power without representing a majority of the people. but i think that was the beginning of the serious dysfunction we see today.

it got worse in various iterations in the years since then. >> dana, what was fascinating to me, at least when i was there, there were people who believed in balancing the budget. what shocked me is when i went back five years ago, the guys that were fighting and politically willing to die for balanced budgets, for budget surplus -- i mean, when i left, we had $155 billion in budget surplus. then you go through the bush years, record deficits, record debt. you go through the trump years, record deficits, record debt. i mean, my god, there was always a hard sigh to the rhetoric, but some things actually got done. i mean, as far as, there were at least some people who believed in what they claim to believe. now, there's not even that. look at liz cheney. it is not about ideology. it is about being in cult. >> right. look at liz cheney and look a

dick cheney, now considered rhinos in the republican party, as would ronald reagan, as would mitt romney and john mccain. you know, newt gingrich came to power with an entirely different way of thinking about governing. he wanted to talk about the opponents as corrupt. he wanted to talk about them as cheaters, anti-patriotic, as anti-american. republicans of that era, coming out of reagan, were for limited, small government. a transition began at that point, where it went from being for limited government to anti-government. you saw a lot of common cause being made with the militias. you heard this on conservative talk radio, sort of edging the white nationalists in the party. what we see in a much larger extent right now. i would say it began with that republican revolution. we saw it, i think, a little bit after the 9/11 attacks, when the

politicization of the iraq war, the lying about the intelligence in iraq. then we certainly saw it with the tea party and the birther movement. so trump against that backdrop was just really -- i mean, look, he was a pro-choice, for health care for all, he was all about tolerance and anti-racism. at one point, he was campaigning against pat buchanan. he just saw where the republican party was going, and he decided, i want to be the drum major. i'm going to adopt the basket of issues to get out in front of this parade. >> walter isaacson, i know you have the next question for dana, but i wonder if the biden presidency has been at all stabilizing to this. a lot of people wondered, would he be a transitional figure? would he be able to do more? what do you think biden has done so far beyond beaten trumpism, or trump himself? has he been able to push back at trumpism, which really seems alive and well? >> yeah, i do think that he's

uniquely qualified to be a stabilizing person. in our media landscape, the way everybody gets demonized, it is particularly hard for him to do so. i would hope he'd say, i'm now going to focus on trying to show government can work, that we can have a stabilized system. but i want to turn, if i may, to a question to dana. i was reading his book last night. congratulations. it is actually towel-snapping funny, too. one of the characters i found particularly interesting was mitch mcconnell. you really do a lot on him. i once read his memoir, you know, years ago, five or six, seven, eight years ago i read it. it was about him standing up to the crazy wing of the republican party. he writes about how people in his own party had come there just to take positions and make stands, rather than to govern.

what happened? what was this pirouette that happened to him? >> i'm not sure it's as much of a pirouette as a gradual transition for him. look, he came in and was running the senate re-election campaigns in the late 1990s. it was essentially saying, you know, putting out ads saying the democrats are going to bring us into a nuclear war. you have to give us money to stop it. i don't think there was an angelic period of mitch mcconnell. i do think since the tea party and emerging into trump, he recognized, hey, if i want to remain the republican leader and not get passed by the likes of rand paul from his home state, he's got to do things differently. so, look, i think, certainly, mitch mcconnell is not idealogically the most nefarious actor by a long shot, but i would argue that he, more than any other single person, enabled the presidency of donald trump.

because he said to the republican establishment, the chamber of commerce, the country club republicans, it's okay. you can donate money. you know, he brought the republican establishment on board. of course, it's been hijacked. he's popular inside of his caucus, but he is woefully unpopular outside of his caucus. you've seen this over and over again, this sort of deal with the devil that establishment republicans made. now we're seeing in places like arizona last week, for example, there is no establishment. the crazies have actually become the establishment. >> dana, let me pick up right on that point. because i think in the -- and congratulations on the book. >> thanks. >> i think what gives me cause to pause is that the far right extremists that started maybe before gingrich but became

mainstream in the gingrich era seemingly has taken over the party. it's geared toward destroying rather than how they want to govern. i remember being in the room in south africa after the first election in '94, and mandela was lecturing people there, saying, "we now have to prove we can govern." they're not about governing. they're about stopping whoever is gorching. >> governing. >> right. >> on the left, there's been the same fight but they've not overtaken the party. what is the difference? the far, far left that is destructive has not become the main part of the party, even though you have a party from joe biden to bernie sanders, but on the right, it seems like the crazies are in charge? >> yeah. it certainly does. reverend, look, i think we've been building toward this point for a while. there are various technical reasons democrats are more likely to have open primaries and they haven't been consumed to the same extent. i think the biggest picture is republicans are turning against

democracy because democracy has turned against republicans. i think they've lost the popular vote in the last seven of eight elections. so, basically, the best play is to depress the vote, keep people from going to the polls. that's why you had the aforementioned mitch mcconnell saying we need to make barack obama a one-term president. saying, we build up a litany of failures. we beat him here, beat him there. then people get unhappy and upset with the government, and hopefully it goes to their party, in the republicans' view. that's why i call the book "the destructionists." it is not destroying by accident. it is doing it for a deliberate reason, and that is to sow a lack of faith in the government. believe me, if you lack at the gallup poll on trust in american institutions, they've succeeded admirably well in destroying a trust in a range of institutions. dislike of government has worked

to the republican advantage, as they have been continuing to appeal to what is a minority of the electorate. >> dana, i wonder, though, if what you're talking about is actually -- the destructionists, what they're doing now is destroying their own party. read the "wall street journal" editorial page, not a progressive rag, and what are they talking about? they're talking about how donald trump and trumpism cost republicans the house in '18. cost republicans the senate in '18. cost republicans the white house in '20. and they say just may cost them the senate in '22 and the white house again in '24. >> yeah. >> americans look at -- what's the matter with kansas? not a whole lot right now. are we starting the see the payback for 25 years of deconstruction? >> yeah, i mean, it's all well and good for the "wall street journal" editorial page to say

that after also being enablers of trump for that period of time. i think what you're seeing, joe, and what is underlying a lot of this is this transition to a minority white nation, which will happen in 2045, somewhere around then. so this is sort of the backlash that is occurring against that. i think that's where most of the republican actions right now can be seen in that context. a backlash against the growing multicultural america. >> all right. "the destructionists: the 25-year crack-up of the republican party." dana milbank, congratulations on the book, and thank you for being on this morning. >> thank you. ahead on "morning joe," we'll have much more on the inflation reduction act. senator chris murphy will be here on that, and as well as democrats need to get done when they return from break. plus, we'll dive in specifically on the climate

provisions included in the bill with the ceo of the largest residential solar power company in the country, who called it the most impactful climate legislation of our lifetimes. but up next, as we've been discussing, our nation is clearly divided. one of our next guests argues that one of the causes, and possible solutions, is higher education. will bunch will join us when "morning joe" returns. finding the perfect designer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found her. she's in austin between a fresh bowl of matcha and a fresh batch of wireframes. and you can find her, and millions of other talented pros, right now on upwork.com

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conversation from the last segment. a new book highlighting the bitter and growing divide between the democratic party that's increasingly home to people with college degrees, and the republican party, dominated by mostly non-college educated white americans. after the ivory tower falls, how college broke the american dream and blew up our politics, and how to fix it, by will bunch, dives into this key question. if college is causing our political divide, can higher education be part of the solution? joining us now is the author of that book, national opinion columnist for the "philadelphia inquirer," pulitzer prize-winning journalist, will bunch. it's really great to have you on the show this morning. can you kind of -- >> thanks, mika. >> -- dig deep on this pretty

clear statement about college educated versus non-educated and how it has impacted our poll politics or shown a division and explain it to the viewers? >> sure. one of the fascinating political developments of the last ten years or so is every election cycle, the big fault line now is educational attainment. every election you see more and more that the democrats are the party of people with college degrees, and the republicans are more and more becoming the party of the working class, without college degrees. primarily the white working class. we're seeing more and more migration of latino working class voters and other non-white groups to the republican party. if college attainment is the fault line, there has to be something about higher education that's driving that. i think that's driving it

largely is starting around the 1970s, we gave up on the idea that college is a public good, that we're responsible for it, and our tax dollars will help keep it open for everybody. instead, it became privatized, right at the time tuition started to rise and at the time employers really demanded a diploma for most job categories. that's done a couple thing. one, it's created this huge college debt bomb that is now $1.75 trillion and counting. which is really, you know, a sword hanging over our young people who are putting off marriage, putting off buying a home, living in their parents' basement in too many cases because they can't afford this debt. but i think what's really driving the division is, you know, you have to remember 63%

of americans do not have a college degree. when we declare that america is this meritocracy, that, you know, you go as far as you can based on your own personal gumption and merit, and if you don't have a degree, you probably won't do well in the job market or in life, that must be a personal failing on your part. which i don't think that's really true, but i think it is -- that attitude is a breeding ground for resentment. you know, the republicans have become the party of grievance and resentment politics. >> yeah, you know -- >> and -- yeah. >> i was just going to say, katty kay has a question for you. katty, think of this scam we call ameritocracy. in high school, i never talked about what college i'd go to. showed up, took the s.a.t., and things worked out okay for me.

but today, you have parents, you have families that, you know, their kids are 7 years old and they're putting them in s.a.t. camps. there is a battle. i was shocked when i first must'vmoved to new york city, the battle to get into pre-k schools. every bit as intense as to get into colleges. this meritocracy system is rigged, first of all. secondly, will is right, tuitions have exploded to such a degree that our education system is creating two americas. there's no other way around it. this is no meritocracy. this is educationally and in every other way, culturally, the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, and the people on the inside getting taken care of with s.a.t. tutors, et cetera, et cetera. let's be blunt, all the people we know, none of the people that i knew when i was 18.

>> yeah. i mean, it's got completely out of control. it's got completely out of whack, certainly with other countries around the world. the fact you send a child to university here in the united states and end up with a bill that is something like $70,000 a year. in many european countries, university is free. in the uk where they do now charge, it is about $12,000 a year. on top of that $70,000, as you say, joe, you've got all of the whole industry, which is, you know, completely rigged against people who don't have the income and can't afford to pay for s.a.t. prep courses, people that will help you write your common app essay, people that will help you with the college essay process, causing more money and stacks the cards time and time against people that just don't have the money to pay for all of that extra support. so, yeah, no wonder people are

starting to look at university and think, is it worth it? will, one of the things that strikes me on the political divisions, as i was interviewing somebody recently, i was struck by this in arizona. a conserative guy who calls himself america's sheriff. he was talk about how he is discouraging his children from going to university because he is skeptical they may come back liberals. i mean, he's got to the stage now where he doesn't aspire for his kids to go to college. he doesn't want them to go to college because they will come back not good conservatives. >> absolutely. you know, this summer, people on the right published books with titles like "a college scam" or "don't go to college." i mean, this is the new mindset they're trying to push on the right, and it's not just isolated people like this voter you talked to in arizona. a poll just came out this summer about american's fate in higher

education and universities, and it's dropped by 14 points in the last two years, which is remarkable. a lot of that drop is coming from conservatives. you know, not all of it. i mean, liberals aren't happy. $75,000 tuition. but conservatives are the big driver of this. and you're seeing this in other way. you know, you're really seeing for the first time, college enrollment dropped by about 9% since the start of the pandemic. people thought it would bounce back once the pandemic was over. instead, people are really questioning whether a college degree is worth it, whether people can take a certificate course or a couple certificate courses in something like i.t. and not have to go through the four-year degree.

>> you and i are old enough, you could go to college for free. u.c. berkeley, one of the best school systems in world, you'd go there for free. when i went to the university of alabama, i remember writing a $500 check per semester. university of florida law school, i think it was$1,000 a semester. it's just changed so radically since then. they have priced middle class americans out of the market of schooling. by the way, i went to southern state schools. the cost for southern state schools have skyrocketed. the cost for every college, it seems, has skyrocketed. i mean, it's just -- i'm sorry, i hate to keep going back to the word -- it's a scam. >> if you look at the great arab-american innovation, so many went through the state colleges, were able to afford it, and then, somehow, created this great revolution that we've had in innovation.

now, that's not affordable. i want to go to will with a question, which is, michael sendel writes about the tyranny of merit. you show how it causes resentment. you focus on kenyon college, a small town in ohio. tell me about that, how the tyranny of merit has created resentment in a small ohio town. >> yeah, i spent some time out there knox county, ohio, which is a fascinating place. you know, the overall county voted about 70% to 75% for donald trump. when you go to the little quaint village where kenyon is located, population 3,000, it voted 89% for joe biden in 2020. so you have this remarkable divide. i looked at the way it played out. there was a lack of understanding. you know, people down in the valley, the working class and

white collar people don't interact with others on the bus. they worry about what is being taught about things like race and gender. on the campus side, you know, black and brown students of kenyon feel they're regionally profiled by the sheriff's department. we live in silos. much of america, you know, people, college educated people and working class people don't interact much. i wanted to go to knox county because it's a rare case where you have this mixture in the county. it really shows what joe was saying, that there's two americas right now. >> will, let me ask this, i look at your book and am amazed by this perspective because i find it to be true. i look at it from being a activist and the first battle that was won was brown versus

board of education in the 20th century, dealing with segregation, and it was about access to education. when you look at how people now are feeling resentment for people that are well educated, and even though i grew up in a home where neither of my parents went to college, i went to college, didn't get the degree, but i went. now you have the reverse, where people are resenting people that go. how do we deal with it? is it about democratizing high education, where it is affordable? because many people now just can't deal with student debt, can't deal with the tuitions, can't deal with being prepared in these groups that prepare people for s.a.t.s, or do we try to find some mid-ground? in fact, those that do go to historically black colleges, hbcus, we have a sitting vice president who graduated from howard that might look different than those that graduated from harvard. how do we deal with those two tensions? >> i think the bottom line is

you have to think about whether college is going to be a public good, you know,nanced by all of whether we're going to continue down the path that started during the reagan years of privatization. the burden is all on the individual. you know, we allowed this to happen with really not much debate about, you know, tuition and the public's responsibility. in pennsylvania, taxpayers used to pay for 75% of public university. now, it's only 25%. these kids and their families have to make up the rest of the tuition. so we need to start that debate about how do we make college a public good in america again. we almost got there with the g.i. bill and low tuition in the 1950s and '60s, and we let it slip away. we have to figure out how to get it back. >> the new book is "after the ivory tower falls." will bunch, thank you so much. really fascinating and important

conversation. thank you. coming up, we already know some of the stories of former president trump battling his generals, including when he suggested having members of the military shoot protesters in the leg. it turns out, it actually gets much, much worse. up next, indiana becomes the first state to ban abortion since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. we'll explain how the new law could have consequences that go far beyond health care. "morning joe" is coming right back. cket wrench, pliers, and a phone open to libertymutual.com they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need... and a blowtorch. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ meet ron. that man is always on. and he's on it with jardiance for type 2 diabetes.

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not be wearing that sweater in qatar right now because it is 847 degrees there. one of the reasons why the premier league started early this year, because you can't really have a world cup in a place where they don't even place football in the middle of the summer because, as i mentioned before, it's 842 degrees there. i'll tell ya what, man, it is also kind of hot at old trafford right now. football always known as a beautiful game, but it was downright ugly for united this weekend. take us through it. >> oh, the premier league is back, joe. that unique heros journey. man in shorts with neck tattoos and swollen calf muscles. big shot of the weekend at old trafford. buccaneers' glazer family.

ten hag restoring optimism, and it didn't go well. they like luke skywalker said, the torpedo on the death star. there's ten hag looking like an edward munch painting. united put to a sword before halftime. you're watching football's equivalent to the sacking of rome. first win at manchester. manchester united are a sporting gray gardens under new owners. let's look at liverpool. >> roger, before we get to liverpool, hold up, guys, for a second. what's wrong? what's wrong with united? >> manchester united? >> yeah, they've been through one coach after another coach after another. you know, since sir alex left, what's wrong with the club?

>> i will say, america owns now a sport they don't care, almost half the premier league teams. there are premier league sports investorsrosper. manchester united are owned by the glazers, the tampa bay buccaneers. they're operating out of the board room in tampa bay. the gap between their knowledge and where it needs to be is seismic. before the games, this is what fans do now in the commercial era, they storm the mega store, the club shop, and shut it down, to stop them from raising more money. they won them out very badly. that's what were seeing. if we see the rest of the action, you'll see one american-owned team after another, some prospering, some not. it is that learning curve that's all-important. two teams here. you've got joe's liverpool, owned by the boston red sox, fenway sports group. they went to fulham, owned by jaguars. liverpool fell behind twice.

the serbian round of rebound, and look at this. liverpool king, nunez. >> nice start. >> defending title hopeful, manchester city, they are -- this is like machines versus men. they are owned by abu dhabi, and they face pornographer owned west ham. this is like shaquille o'neil. described as a meat shield, this man. he obliterates defenders. english defenders look like english people when they saw the viking ship pull up in 8th century a.d. massive movement. 20-year-old ericsson from new jersey. a goal for leeds. it was called an own goal, but i'm claiming it for the usa. jesse marsh, first american to manage a team at the beginning

of the season in the premier league. didn't just win, he had to end with a fight. arguing with his counterpart. lip readers who watch the show can tell me he is saying, "i won, so we all have to now call it soccer." >> exactly. not a ted lasso fight, but leeds winning for the first time -- an opener for the first time since they've been back up. so it does look, though, with city, the rich keep getting richer. for man city, big wheels keep on turning. >> yeah, the english sports, very unlike america. here, you have the salary cap. you have the draft. you have essentially socialism for rich guys baked into the american sport system. in europe, money wins. ultimately, the sad thing is, from the first week, we all know we're just cheering for spreadsheets. my god, it is fantastic. come on, xl spreadsheets.

>> okay. >> roger bennet, thanks. >> thank you so much. still ahead, after 22 hours of debate, the senate finally passed the inflation reduction act.urphy will join us on that and what democrats still need to do. also over the weekend, indiana became the first state to pass a near total ban on abortion. since the supreme court's ruling on roe, a member of the indiana house and a practicing ob-gyn joins us on just how dangerous this bill is. plus, a new book on the trump administration reveals that the former president wanted his military leaders to be more like hitler's generals. and pledge total loyalty to him. a shocking look at the battles between trump and his military leadership, when "morning joe" returns.

i just always thought, “dog food is dog food” i didn't really piece together that dogs eat food. as soon as we brought the farmer's dog in, her skin was better, she was more active. if i can invest in her health and be proactive, i think it's worth it. visit betterforthem.com vo: as families struggle with inflation... congress and president biden are doing something about it. the inflation reduction act will reduce costs for millions of families. it lowers the cost of drugs and ramps up production of american-made clean energy. that means lower energy bills for families, jobs for our communities, and the boldest plan to take on climate change we've ever seen. the inflation reduction act will “bring relief to millions of people” congress: let's pass it.

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at last, we've arrived, and we are elated. every member of my caucus is elated about what happened because we've really changed the world, in a way that you rarely get an opportunity to do that. with the inflation reduction act, this senate democratic majority has achieved what countless others have come to washington promising to do but ultimately failed to deliver. i am really confident that the inflation reduction act will endure as one of the defining feats of the 21st century. >> chuck schumer and the democrats of the united states senate proving once again that you don't want to see how your hamburger is processed.

just hand me the burger once it is all done. >> with all the fixings. >> they have been processing this ground meat now for a year and a half in public in the ugliest of ways, but i would guess that this democratic party and the democratic president would say, "all's well that ends well." it is. you know, we just don't really say it that much anymore when you come to legislation, certainly not over the past decade, it is a remarkable legislaive achievement, when you put this together with landmark gun legislation that was passed. landmark bipartisan infrastructure legislation that was passed. landmark legislation on several other things. i mean, joe biden, chuck schumer, and nancy pelosi, they're on quite a winning streak. >> nancy pelosi will be on the show tomorrow. but what you just saw at the top of the third hour of "morning

joe," chuck schumer talking about the landmark spending bill passed by the senate this weekend. that is now headed to the house. it passed with all democrats, no republicans, and a tie-breaking vote from vice president kamala harris. inflation reduction act will invest more than $300 billion in climate reform, cut prescription drug prices for americans 65 and older, and add a 15% minimum tax on large corporations. the house is expected to return from recess early on friday to take up the measure. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, august 8th. kate's birthday. katty kay is still with us and joined -- >> happy birthday, kate. >> we have best-selling author jonathan lemire. correspondent for the "new york times," peter baker is with us this hour, as well. let's start there. peter, senate republicans were able to keep -- >> oh -- >> go ahead, joe.

>> i wanted to say, before we get to the insulin thing, peter baker, let's talk about what's been accomplished here. because we've had people, you know, biden wanted to be an fdr-like figure. people talking about whether he might be more of an lbj-like figure, getting legislation passed. but i look back, i mean, the success of this, you've got to look back. when you're comparing it to other presidents, you can look at lbj. you can look at ronald reagan. you can look at bill clinton. bill clinton might be one of the best example of a guy, even with a republican congress i was a part of that fought him at every turn, balanced budget, four years in a row, welfare reform, tax reform. you could go down the list. 20 million new jobs, a strong

economy. he's also a guy who, of course, i'm living proof of this, a guy who got hammered in his first midterm. but the list of accomplishments for joe biden and this democratic congress in a really divided climate just seem to keep growing. >> yeah, i think for -- look, for much of biden's presidency, they look like the bad news bears who couldn't figure out how to get things done the last two weeks. they looked like the yankees, like they know how to hit the ball. they've gotten their act together on major priorities which they've been promising without success until now. this has been a really good two weeks for president biden, not just in legislation but also the drone strike that killed the world's most wanted terrorist. at least some economic indicators going in the right direction. gas prices and the jobs report. all these things are a heady moment for this white house. people in there are feeling

really good about this. they know this could be a transitory thing. they don't know if it'll be a turning point for a presidency, as we've seen in some of the other presidencies you mentioned, joe, or a transitory moment where things looked good but they continue to struggle to translate that into popular support. for the president, the best thing is testing negative for covid. now he can get out there again and start making the case for his presidency. try to convince the public what we've seen legislatively and otherwise the last two weeks will make a difference in their lives and should make a difference in the polling booth, if the democrats have they ware. >> jonathan, we've talked so often about how frustrated the white house has been, how frustrated the president has been that things weren't getting done. the last couple weeks, pretty extraordinary. you have historic climate change bill that's passing.

a historic bill on reducing the cost of pharmaceuticals, of drugs for middle americans, for americans or medicare. you look at the china competition bill that republicans actually were thinking about trying to kill because they got angry. you look at the historic v.a. health bill. you look at, again, that republicans were fighting until they fightly ca lyfinally caved. the historic gun safety bill, nothing like that the past 10, 20 years. of course, the head of al qaeda being killed, someone the united states has been trying to bring to justice for over 20 years. it's hard to believe all of this happened over the past couple of weeks. most of this has happened over the past couple of weeks. >> when president biden took office, his staff embraced comparisons to fdr and lbj, there was always the one flashing warning red flight.

both lbj and fdr started their presidencies with huge margins in congress. this president did not. the democrats had advantage of the house, a handful of seats but, of course, it was a 50/50 senate. the white house has been stymied time and again, at times by members of his own party. on build back better, on voting rights and other priorities. they seemingly couldn't get it done. now, it is a breathtaking reversal and remarkable run of success here, most while the president has been in covid isolation. the white house aides quick to point out he has been working the phones. over the weekend, called more than a dozen democratic senators to try to push this thing across the finish line. and they did. the vote-a-rama, the overnight slog of the process on the hill, but it ended in cheers by the democrats. it caps off a remarkable run here from this president. now, his aides are very quick to point out on my phone and all

over twitter how much the president has gotten done in this first year and a half or so in office. it does rank up there with any modern president, the number of legislation done. it comes, of course, with his partners in the house, pelosi, and in the senate, schumer, and republicans with a lot of self-inflicted wounds. democrats feel a politically damaging one. oppositions to things like the burn pits to help disabled and sick veterans. briefly taking a stand, seemingly on the side of china by opposing the chips bill. >> amazing. >> now this over the weekend about the price of insulin. three strikes against them, democrats feel. >> speaking of, joining us now, democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut. really good to have you on the show. what do you think the most impactful part of the inflation reduction act will be? and what are the changes move movemoving forward? >> people's lives are going to

get better. we have millions of seniors many this country who are choosing not to take the medications that are prescribed by their doctor because they can't afford it. this bill puts a$2,000 out of pocket cap for seniors. we have a planet that is warming at a rate we can't sustain. we have kids around this country who wonder, are the adults going to take this seriously before it is too late? storms, droughts, wildfires we can't control. we now have a structure in place for renewable energy, so electricity producers are going to start building solar capacity, wind capacity, instead of more oil, fire, and gas-powered plants. we have broken the back of the special interests that used to control washington. there's no more powerful industries in washington than the gun industry and the oil industry, the drug industry. for 30 years, you know, they stopped all of this from happening. clean energy legislation, cap on drug costs, a gun bill.

i'm not saying we got it all done. there's a lot more work to do. but all of a sudden, you see the possibility of what can happen if you put these sort of speciao what is best for people. a productive summer. the bottom line is people's lives are going to get better. >> senator, can you talk a little bit about how we got here on the climate change bill? this is something that people in the u.s. have been trying to do since the 1990s. it's failed time and time again. consecutive presidents haven't managed to do it. clearly, it's a hot summer. we've seen the fires, the record-breaking temperatures, so, in a sense, it's hard to deny the evidence. republicans made some missteps on this, but i'm interested in the thinking around the carrots and sticks that took place in the bill. there seems to be a different way of thinking about how we can enact legislation that will change the climate, that is not a tax on carbon but is more of a

carrot. >> well, let's go back about ten years ago when we were looking at a bill that was carrots and sticks, the cap and trade bill. that was a different time. since then, renewable energy has become more competitive. it is close to price competitive with fossil fuels. so at this moment, late in the game, we were able to make this transformation with incentive ace loan. so these incentives really are going to make renewable energy and electric vehicles cost come competitive with the old technology. you are right, there's no way to avoid the catastrophe right now. every day you turn on your tv and see the consequences of climate change. so i think we are just in a moment right now where we have had enough technological development, that we just needed the incentives. of course, the back end, great news to all this, is not just we're going to clean up the climate but that we're going to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. some country was going to have all the renewable energy and wind turbine jobs. now, we have a shot to create

them in the united states. one estimate says 9 million jobs in and around renewable energy are going to be created in this country in the next ten year. that's awesome news. >> senator, hi, it's peter baker. just wanted to ask you, what do you think this means at this point for the arc of the biden presidency? he's been struggling for many months with low poll numbers, with tough economic news mixed with some good economic news. what do you think the spade of legislation in the last couple weeks, along with other, you know, progress that he's made, does for his position with the public, does for the overall story of where his presidency is going at this point? >> i think there are a couple things going on here. first of all, americans elected joe biden to have a steady hand on the wheel. they also wanted somebody that could reach out and work with republicans. you talked about the missteps for republicans, but it is also extraordinary how many of these pieces of legislation did end up passing with bipartisan support.

whether it be the guns bill or the veterans bill. that's, in part, why people elected joe biden. there is a reminder of why you invested in somebody who could reach out to republicans. at the same time, i actually think this election is going to be much more so about the radical direction of the republican party than it might be about these accomplishments. these accomplishments will help. if you see what is motivating voters right now, it is choice. it's the idea that the government is going to be in charge of their body if republicans stay in charge of washington. this radical direction on democracy, the republican party coming to the defense of the rioter on january 6th. so i think we have to go out and talk about everything that's good in this bill, but i think a lot of voters now are motivated just as much by the direction they've seen the republican party take. >> senator, good morning. it's jonathan lemire. on that theme of republicans opposing things that have such broad, popular support, talking about the chips act and, over the weekend, so many voting

against the ability to cap insulin prices, tell us your ability to that and where that goes from here. can that be something revisited either this fall or after january 1? >> i think there is going to be enormous backlash against republicans for blocking this price cap on insulin. 7 million americans are on insulin, for folks watching in that group. you know how unaffordable it's become. what we're trying to do here is just put a $35 cap on insulin. not just for folks on medicare, but for everybody in this country. we got close to passing it last night. a few republicans joined us but not enough to overcome the 60-vote barrier. i think this will be similar to what republicans did on the veterans bill. they opposed the veterans bill. there was just an outpouring of opposition. they realized that they just couldn't sustain explaining why they were voting against veterans' benefits and came back to the table to try to get something done. i think the same thing may be able to happen here. i just don't think folks are going to understand why

republicans won't stand up against the drug industry. >> it's really crazy. against -- i mean, listen, if i were running, i would just show the headlines. it's because it is crazy. against vets. far china. against being competitive against china, for china. against 10-year-old girls being able to -- having to flee their states. actually wanting them to flee their states. and for forcing them to have their rrapist's baby. against safeguards to stop moms from dying on operating tables in the state of texas. against diabetics who can't afford to pay for the price gouging from big pharma. i mean, it just keeps mounting up. i was going to ask you the question, how big of a win is this for the democratic party, but i feel compelled, after

hearing jonathan lemire's question, to ask, how big of a loss is this for republicans who keep going against issues that the overwhelming majority of americans support? for instance, 90% of americans supporting universal background checks. >> yeah, i think that's really the most important point here. sometimes, when democrats come into the white house, they, you know, have a temptation to do things that are really important but maybe not universally popular. what the biden administration and this congress decided to do is put legislation on the floor of the senate that is crazy popular, whether it be changes in our gun laws, helping veterans, lowering the cost of drugs, even the increase on taxes for corporations, hugely popular amongst republicans and democrats. republicans have this reflective reaction to be against everything that biden and the democrats are for. it's not good for democracy, but it is not good for them. what we've done is put things on the floor of the senate that everybody out there likes, that

is going to help tons of people, republicans and democrats. as i said, this election, i think, will be motivated by what we've done but also this deep discomfort that republicans seem to be a little lost in terms of what they're actually for. for clear about what they're against, and it is popular stuff. >> yup, yup, it is click bait. senator chris murphy, thank you so much. really appreciate your being on this morning. peter baker, before you go, you've got new reporting out this morning in the "new yorker" entitled, "inside the war between trump and his generals." it details his efforts to redirect military officials and plans in order to suit his own needs and desires. tell us what you found. >> yeah, so this is the excerpt from the book my wife, susan glasser, and i have written.

trump in the white house. we look at the president's relationship with his generals and how he viewed them. he viewed them as people who should be loyal to him in a personal way, which then went against the grain for the professionalized military, which doesn't see their role as being political actors. they don't want to be politicized. you had this war for four years, long before january 6th, between a commander in chief and the generals who thought that he was a danger to the country. at one point, he was so frustrated the generals weren't loyal enough to him, he asked them why they weren't like the german generals in world war ii, which astonished john kelly, a retired four-star general and then his chief of staff. he said, you know, they tried to kill hitler, right? he had other generals stand up to him. >> [ laughter ]. >> you can't make this up. >> stop it. >> he wanted to have the military parade down the streets of washington. another general said, that's what dictators do. finally, of course, you had mark

milley, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, then and now, who was so outraged by the things that president trump was trying to do with the military, that he even wrote out a resignation letter. we published it for the first time in this excerpt. he didn't give it, but it was a resignation letter that was just -- he said, "i believe you're doing great and irreparable harm to my country." he said president trump didn't understand the values that americans fought and died for in world war ii. he compared him to the totalitarians in the world from the past. he put the letter in the drawer and decided to stay instead. he said, i'll fight him from the inside. he decided to stay. consistent with his obligations to follow the commands of a commander in chief, but he'd try to prevent the politicization of the military. they want to court marshall me, so be it. >> thank god he stayed. peter, first of all, it's crazy.

>> it's like -- >> the part where they had to explain, "well, you know the german generals did try to kill hitler." it's all very frightening. why can't you be like the german generals? which ones, the ones in world war ii is horrifying, shows that, well, when i call him a fascist, maybe i'm on to something. but, also, let's talk about general milley for a second. your book, fascinating about why donald trump selected milley as chairman of the joint chiefs. it was -- it seems like it was in reaction to the fact that he was despised by general mattis. >> four-star general, defense secretary. mattis was another candidate. trump rejected him because it

was mattis' choice. he thought mark milley would be like his general, big, robust, a loud speaker, rude maybe, blunt to the point of being rude. trump took a liking to him. also liked him because he was somebody mattis didn't like. it was all about his personal pique at mattis. milley was the guy who stood up to trump, saying, "no, the military is not your personal political instrument." i think that turned out to be, obviously, a misjudgment from trump's point of view. >> peter baybaker, thank you ve much, i think. really appreciate your reporting, as disturbing as it is. >> the book sounds incredible, mika. it really does. >> it really does. >> thank you so much for being with us. >> "the divider." >> you had some serious concerns about the fact that trump might try to stage a coup. in fact, we had a friendly bet about whether he would leave

office on january 20th or not. >> we did. >> we were talking about that and debating that privately for a year, whether he would use the military and create a coup. >> yeah. >> i will tell you, i felt much more comfortable in the days after june 1st, 2020, when general milley stepped forward and started acting like the men and women in uniform that i had seen up close while in congress. you know, the fact you had the most powerful military man in america, a general standing before all of the troops virtually, and delivering a message by video saying, "i must stop. i really screwed up. i shouldn't have walked with the president. i shouldn't have been anywhere near him on june 1st. i am sorry." to me, that showed the strength

of a leader who said, "we cannot be political." that's not what the united states military is about. he stepped up at that moment, and that's when i really did feel like, regardless of what happened moving forward, if there was a coup attempt, the united states military wouldn't be a part of it. now, of course, as we investigate january 6th, the question is, who inside the pentagon decided to destroy all the correspondence from that day? the next question, who inside the secret service decided to destroy all the correspondence from that day and the day before? those are important questions that need to be answered. make no mistake of it, those secret service men that were inside the beast on january 6th when donald trump, the president of the united states, was grabbing at the wheel, screaming at him and saying, "take me up to the capitol," they said, "no,

sir, you're not going up to the capitol." same with general milley, saying, "no, that's not what this democracy is about. it's not what the military is about." the center on that day held, and we should stop for a second as we listen to what peter said and look at the news. >> yes. >> there is a lot of bad news out there, but there are federal judges to generals to admirals to people inside the secret service, people inside of the doj, trump lawyers that, inside of the white house who, you know, sprinted from the mall with mud all over their pants, sprinted over from the mall, basically stopping donald trump from destroying the department of justice. a lot of people we can line up, we can disagree with everything they did during most of the trump administration, but standing up and pushing back to an out-of-control -- i'll say it

right here again -- a fascist president of the united states. >> yeah. >> and doing it at a time that was most valuable for this country for them to do it. >> and that moment in the beast when he was acting like a little baby, and they just said no. it's off the hook, though, it came to that. listen, time for business before the bell. let's bring in cnbc's senior market correspondent, dom chu. wall street must be watching what's happening on capitol hill. what do you know? >> wall street is. the reaction to the kind of passage of this inflation reduction act is already being seen in the marketplace right now ahead of the opening bell. what you are going to kind of expect to see throughout the course of the day is whether traders and investors feel this is going to be a longer-term solution to some of the clean energy and infrastructure problems we've had over the course of the last several years

and arguably decades. some of the stocks in the green in the pre-market trade are solar energy names you might expect. also electric vehicle makers. even large utility companies that produce clean energy, whether from solar or wind. that'll be key. with this $430 billion package, we know the bulk of that, the $300 billion worth of that is going to be geared toward tackling climate change. that's going to be something to watch for sure. as to whether or not it reduces inflation, that's a big debate, mika, joe, because some economists feel as though this is one of those situations where it's an investment. if you make the investment down, do you pay less down the line? that's going to be something folks debate. by the way, only history tells whether it works out that way. >> cnbc's dominic chu, thank you so much. still ahead on "morning joe," we have talked a lot about the economic impact of the newly passed inflation reduction act, but the ceo of one of the

largest solar power companies in the country will explain why this could be a game-changer in the fight against climate change. also up next, election deniers and conspiracy theorists takes center stage at cpac. if that's what they're highlighting, you won't believe what is going on on the sidelines. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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election deniers and conspiracy theorists took center stage at cpac in dallas over the weekend. from marjorie taylor greene to the my pillow guy to candidates who won recent primaries after supporting the big lie.

event was in full propaganda mode. featuring donald trump as rambo. ew. a mock january 6th rioter crying inside a jail cell. the room was packed with right-wing buzzwords and violent rhetoric. >> in the senate every day, i represent 30 million texans. my job, it's like the old roman coliseum. you slam on a breast plate and grab a battle ax and fight the barbarians. and as they say in the military world, it is a target rich environment. >> we are at war. we're at a political and idealogical war. you can say anything else you want about it, but we're at war. think about after high noon on the 20th of january 2021.

when an illegitimate imposter took over 1600 pennsylvania avenue and took over an administration. >> and donald trump was the headliner saturday evening at cpac. the former president used his speech to spread lies about the 2020 election. and false claims of rampant voter fraud. he also took on the inflation reduction act, specifically targeting democrats senators joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. ♪ i love this land ♪ >> i said this was going to happen. joe manchin is devastating west virginia. kyrsten sinema agreed to allow this massive tax increase just yesterday to go forward, only provided that wall streeters are allowed to keep their current carried interest provision. it's a hell of a provision. >> the annual political conference is attended by conservative activists and elected officials from across

the u.s. and beyond. joe, i just have no words. i have no words. ted cruz's language in the age of mass shootings. >> i have a few words. >> take it away. >> i have a few words for what we just heard. it is a fat, bloated, 1977 era style elvis routine. playing hits from the past, halfhearted, half-assed, and the audience is just there going through the motions. look at that. it's just pathetic. it's sad. here's a guy who, after he passed the grossest tax cut package ever for the richest billionaires and multinational corporations in the world, he flew down to mar-a-lago that night and said to his billionaire friends sitting around his table, "i just made

all of you a lot richer today." i think most working class americans, most middle class americans are really glad that some of -- that the very pieces of legislation he helped pass, the tax bill he helped pass, the provisions that allowed the biggest multinational corporations in the world to pay zero in taxes, those bills got stripped. as far as steve bannon goes, yeah, we are at war. we are at war politically with guys like steve bannon. freedom loving americans, americans who believe in the constitution, steve bannon is a guy who said his hero was vladimir putin. said before he even got into the trump white house he wanted to tear everything down. he wanted to tear the state down. he wanted to destroy the state. he said that before donald trump was sworn into office. well, that's exactly what he tried to do. coming up, a weekend of

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on upwork.com republicans in congress call them "entitlements." a "ponzi scheme." the women and men i served with in combat, we earned our benefits. just like people earned their social security and medicare benefits. but republicans in congress have a plan to end so-called "entitlements" in just five years. social security, medicare, even veterans benefits. go online and read the republican plan for yourself. joe biden is fighting to protect social security, medicare and veterans benefits. call joe biden and tell him to keep fighting for our benefits.

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joining us now with reporting on this investigation, washington correspondent heidi przybyla. >> imagine the investigation trail leads to your competitor. we obtained documents alleging the gop nominee for attorney general orchestrated an illegal campaign to obtain and tamper with a series of voting machines throughout michigan, specifically it's alleged that he was present, at least among the evidence, in an oakland county hotel room, during which those tabulators were tampered with. he is a, quote, prime instigator of this, mika. also, the machine showed up in a lawsuit he used to try to cast doubt on the credibility of the election. the tabulators showed up in an exhibit, in a subpoena in his

lawsuit. i saw red duck tape on his website being messed with during an exclusive. unclear if it's the same tabulators. to wrap this up, this is the man donald trump wants to become the next top law enforcement official in michigan. michigan, again, was a main theater for some of the most bitter fights over the last election. within that, matt deperno could be seen as a stage manager. he launched this lawsuit in the county which was used all across the country in lawsuits. it even showed up in a draft executive order that donald trump was working on to seize voting machines. that executive order never actually came out, but deperno was there, as well, on the state department on january 6th, mika. >> heidi, thank you for your reporting this morning. coming up, one of our next

guests profiled trump's former campaign chair, paul manafort. remember him? they talked about everything, from vladimir putin, ukraine, january 6th, and whether or not he has changed since his stint in jail. that's ahead on "morning joe." we'll be right back. the unknown is not empty. it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry. but one thing can calm uncertainty. an answer. uncovered through exploration, teamwork, and innovation. an answer that leads to even more answers. mayo clinic. you know where to go. like any family, the auburns all have... individual priorities.

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these out-of-state corporations don't care about california. but we do. stand with us. china is expanding its show of force after house speaker nancy pelosi visited the self-governing island of taiwan. china announced several days of live fire drills following pelosi's visit that saw the regional power fire bllistic missiles into waters near taiwan, the first time since the 1996 taiwan strait crisis.

the drills, which were originally due to end yesterday, are the largest china has ever held in the taiwan strait. we'll be following that. turning now to the war in ukraine, where russian forces over the weekend allegedly targeted europe's largest nuclear power plant, raising fears of radiation leaks. ukraine and russia traded accusations over the shelling. ukrainian officials say russian rockets on saturday hit the power plant in zaporizhzhia in the southeast, damaging three radiation sensors and injuring a person. officials say the attack risked a nuclear disaster. and a catastrophic leak was, quote, miraculously avoided. for days now, experts have warned that intense fighting around the plant poses a grave threat. russian forces have controlled that plant since march, using it as a base to launch artillery attacks on nearby ukrainian-controlled towns. moscow, however, denies carrying out the attack and blamed

ukraine. joe, this is moscow just getting as close as they can to something that, you know, could be catastrophic, could be -- could change the world. >> it's more of the same. they're reckless. they're irresponsible. they're war criminals. it is just, war criminals are going to act like war criminals and this is one more example of it. let' bring in right now former nato soup ream allied commander james stavridis and also chief international -- he does so much things. i can't even name them all. admiral, let me ask you first about taiwan and china. tensions continue to rise there, what is your latest take on all of the drills that china is conducting around taiwan? >> i think we were all hoping that this would kind of come to an end. the exercises, the drills, the

live fire elements of it, after the conclusion of the sunday deadline, china had gib itself to finish it. but the bad news, joe, is within a matter of a few hours ago they've announced an extension. now they're not continuing the missiles, the naval gunfire, they're shifting to under sea warfare. but if you're a merchant captain and eye a former sea captain, you're a merchant with no defenses, you really don't want to go through anywhere near something like that, in case a torpedo comes your way. so unfortunately, it appears this is going to go on for a few more days. at the end of this process, however, iss attentions are going to ease. china will have made its point. xi does not want an exchange of ordinance if you will with the united states. he's got big political fish to fry this fall.

so, look for another couple of days and tensions to go down, joe. >> i'm curious, what have you learned from this, just look ago the chinese and how they've responded, what are you learned from china and what is your current take on the possibilities of china moving on taiwan, especially given just how badly the russian invasion of ukraine is gone? >> it is correct to say that we have learned a lot about what it might look like if china decided to attack. it will probably start with some kind of a blockade, it will start with long range missile attacks, they've shown us that. now they're showing us the anti-submarine warfare and the anti-surface ship warfare so we're looking at what their ideas might be. joe, i would say, despite a lot of analysis that said a war is imminent, i don't think so. i think if you're president xi, you're watching ukraine and asking yourself are my generals

as bad as those russian generals appear to be, all trained in the same systems. number two, you're asking, i wonder if those taiwanese will fight the way the ukrainians are. most observers think they will. and number three, you're asking yourself, west has hung together here pretty well arming the ukrainians, creating sanctions, what could kind of unity be jermaine if i attack taiwan. so bottom line, in china, in beijing, president xi is lessen -- less enthusiastic. >> coming up, on the heels of the senate passing the climb taxt and reconciliation bill, the inflation reduction act. "morning joe" is coming right back. she is fearless

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after years of trying, after years of americans calling for action, particularly our young people, congress will pass the largest clean energy package ever. we will cut emissions by 40% by 2030. helping us avert the worst consequences of a warming planet. that is a huge goal. and we're going to meet it. >> senate democrats accomplished a huge goal yesterday with congress taking its biggest step ever to fight the climate crisis. we told you about the senate passing the inflation reduction act. including more than $300 billion in clean energy and climate reform. it is the largest federal investment in clean energy in u.s. history. including $60 billion in renewable energy infrastructure, like solar panels, and wind

turbines, along with tax credits for things like electric vehicles, and energy efficient homes. democrats say the goal is to cut emissions by 40% by the end of the decade. the momentum on capitol hill comes after years of inaction from congress. and now climate experts are now experiencing an odd sensation after the budget deal. optimism, that is a good point, like it has been a long time, joe, since everyone has felt anything remotely optimistic about washington. >> yeah. and there are so many things for americans to be excited about. the fact that, again, on medicare, we've been trying -- >> yeah. >> -- congress has claimed they've been trying for years to get big pharmaceutical companies to have to negotiate with medicare.

that finally happened with republicans fighting it every step of the way. you look at the fact that a lot of corporations, some of the biggest multi-national corporations on the planet paid 0% in taxes. a 15% minimum tax rate on corporations is a step in the right direction. that the overwhelming majority of americans support a $300 billion deficit reduction part of this, that joe manchin and the senator from west virginia demanded, is desperately needed. after four years of the biggest deficits in history brought to you by donald trump. and finally, katty kay, an the climate change aspect, on the climate change part of it, maybe ten years ago, 15 years ago, this was still seen as an issue that divided republicans and democrats, it is still certainly in congress. but i just don't hear it from republicans any more.

i don't hear the science denying when it comes to climate change from most republicans. they understand the planet is getting hotter, the weather changes are getting more extreme, and that action desperately needs to be taken. and this is a really big step forward. i'm not using to saying that about anything congress does. but in this case, cutting carbon emissions by 40% over what they were just in 2005. that is a dramatic, dramatic change. >> yeah. and this is the biggest climate bill certainly that the united states has ever passed and possibly that anyone has ever passed. it is huge. it doesn't go all the way to getting america to net zero by 2050 but it is a very important first step in that direction. and what is really changed here, you're right, is the climate deniers in the republican party as recently as five years ago have just disappeared. the evidence is overwhelming. not just the scientistic data of

what is happening to our planet, but we could all see it, right. everybody is seeing in this action. and you have american corporations and republican-led cities and republican-led states taking action on this, too. so you've got the traditionally more right of center part of america fully on board with climate change and the need to address it. and that is partly as senator murphy was saying earlier on the program, why we've managed to get to something that america has failed to do for 30 years because people could see that the climate is changing. >> well it is the very top of the fourth hour of "morning joe." and we have a lot to get to this hour. including indiana becomes first state the nation to approve abortion restrictions since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. we'll have reaction in the near total ban, including one indiana maker who is also an obstetrician. and ao