coast, 6:00 a.m. out west. it is the top of the fourth hour of "morning joe." the last hour of the week and what a week it has been. john heilemann is still with us. >> it is been absolutely crazy. and we're going to get to an awful lot this hour. we're going to get an awful lot this morning and i think we're going to start -- and i don't know maybe as we look at new york city, maybe we start by me putting my mic on. >> that would help. >> maybe that is how we start the hour. i don't know. i don't know. >> you got it. >> is everything -- >> you look good. it's okay. >> all right. we can go. john heilman. you're still here, thank god. thank god. >> i'm here. i'm here and i have my mcon and everything, joe. >> that is fantastic. with your time life plate behind you. i love it. and so john, it is very interesting and you brought this up last hour for people that are just waking up on the west

coast, we've talked about how there is a new realization, it seems, over the past 24 hours, that far from being the perfect launch for donald trump's 2024 campaign, that this warrant, this search actually may turn out to be far worse than any of trump's allies suspected in the early part of the week. you brought up an example, i would lover for you to bring it up again for our friends on the west coast just getting up. but if you look at "new york times" and "the washington post," and in both of those places, you have people close to donald trump telling republicans, you might want to step back a little bit, this is about to get really bad. >> well, i think a couple of things happened yesterday, joe. number one, the fever pitch of the anti-law enforcement rhetoric that we saw both from i will say importantly both from

elected republicans, and from the right-wing fever swamp in the media over the course of these few days since the search of mar-a-lago, reached a pitch that was, i think, was out of control. and you know how out of control was it that merrick garland, the most reticent player in the world about wanting to go out and say things in public. he made the decision yesterday to go out and take a step to ask the court in florida to unseal the warrant. but then he added, a three part addendum and the biggest part what defending law enforcement in a somewhat angry tone for merrick garland. and i think two things happened. one thing that happened, was the situation in cincinnati yesterday at the miami field office which made some people close to trump realize that

we're -- we're playing with fire and lawmaker would backfire if that situation got out of control and that guy turned out to be what some say he is, a maga faithful insurrectionist type with insurrection sympathy motivated by this rhetoric and people started to focus on, okay, what really did the fbi come after the -- the doj come after donald trump for. and on the basis of the reporting, "the new york times" and "the washington post," it is some of the most secure highly classified secrets that the united states government has that relate to nuclear weapons. i mean, look, i don't know, up is down, down is up. we live in a crazy world. a lot of things have happened over the course of the last six years that none of us could believe could happen. we thought in a rational world, this would be the end of donald trump. but i go to say, there is not a lot of capitol hill republicans who could live with the world if it is true that donald trump,

broke the law by taking classified material out of the white house, defied a subpoena when he was asked to return it and then it turns out to be that those documents are highest security level, you had eric trump on tv saying my dad likes to keep scrap books, he keeps newspaper clippings. if he's holing on to the most sensitive secrets that the country has, i don't know how kevin mccarthys and steve scalises are going to be able to -- it is a kind of moment almost, you remember at the beginning of the ukraine war you had republicans who kind of raced out there and were almost on trump's side and then realized, wait, we can't be -- we can't be for russia here. we have to be with ukraine. i feel like that is another moment that could be coming here, where some of the republicans are going to go, we can't defend -- if this all turns out to be true. we can't defend the president. >> let's see if it does. >> we'll see, we'll see.

let's talk about the bombshell from "the washington post," sources telling them that classified documents were among the items fbi agents were looking for during their search of former president trump's mar-a-lago home on monday. the sources did not offer additional details of what type of information the agents were seeking including whether it involved weapons belonging to the u.s. or some other nation, nor did they say if any such documents were recovered as part of the search this week. one of trump's aattorneys reacted to that report last night. >> is it your understanding that there were not documents related to our nuclear capabilities or nuclear issues that had national security implications in the president's possession when the agents showed up at mar-a-lago? >> that is correct. i don't believe they were. and if they thought -- >> well do you know for a fact?

have you spoken to the president about it. >> i have not spoken to the president about what nuclear material may or may not have been in there. i do not believe there were any in there. >> it is hard to believe. >> but if you look at the lower third, it is the third or fourth time we've rub the clip, the lower third. >> what is a lower third. tell ow -- our viewers. >> that garland launders raid details through media. again, suggesting like money laundering, suggesting he's doing something illegal. and calling it a raid when it wasn't a raid and they understand it. and a laundering it through the media. this is what donald trump did starting on monday. this is what donald trump did when he had all of the information that he needed and he could have released it. he saw, as we've learned from trump's own lawyer, he saw the raid. melania saw the raid.

trump saw it through the security cameras at mar-a-lago. the lawyers said he had a better view of the inspection of the search than the lawyer did. and he's calling it a raid. he knows it is not a raid. he also knew that they couldn't have planted evidence because he watched it the entire time. but he had the information. he had the documents he could have released that day. and instead, mika, he's been spreading hateful lies about law enforcement officers trying to whip people in a frenzy to try to turn people against law enforcement officers, to turn people against the fbi. all while hoping it will help him politically. and what people are waking up, to what republicans are waking up to this morning is what they should have known a very long time ago. that if you defend donald trump, it's always going to end badly for you. >> well, and we're going to see

what happens with this. it is just the rhetoric flying around on the airwaves and lower thirds. it is incredibly dangerous. i can't say it again. enough. >> we've been saying it every day this week. >> it is really dangerous, people. >> we saw what happened yesterday in ohio. even after yesterday's tragedy in ohio, they continued last night spewing hatred on the air. >> joining us now, former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance and tom nicolles and members of the "new york times" editorial board and msnbc contributor and analyst mara gay. joyce, starting with you. let's just work on what we know so far. i've asked this question to a few other legal experts this morning. is it possible that the feds found nothing? >> you know, anything is within the realm of possibility when you go and execute a search warrant, mika.

you have probable cause to believe that you'll find evidence, but that is not always the case. here, though, the signals are that this was a significant exercise of the government's authority, something i think it is very important to keep reiterating. in these cases with national security implications are at least two possibilities. one is that they're searching because they have plans to prosecute. they're getting evidence for the prosecution. the other is that they're investigating and there is a grand jury that is looking at what is going on. but the primary concern is the recovery of classified documents, because having them out into the public where they've spilled, puts the country at grave risk. so i think we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that a prosecution is coming. but we will see in the return of service today, if the judge unseals it, the types of documents that were seized, the types of items. it would be more than documents

that were seized as evidence. we may even see something that indicates what statutes the justice department sought authority to investigate under. and that could tip us off as to whether we're looking at a national security type of issue, a theft of government property, issue, mishandling of documents, there is a whole range of possibilities. >> hey, tom nicolles, it is tom here. you are a man that knows something about war. having taught at various institutes dedicated to that for a long time and someone who knows a lot about bombs and bullets and nukes and all of that stuff. just talk about this classification issue. again, we're basing this on reporting in two of the best newspapers on the country but if it turns out to be correct, that what the doj was looking for, we don't know if they found it, but if all of those things hold true, what is the risk of anyone who is not supposed to have those documents but particularly

a former president to have that level of classification, those kinds of documents specifically pertaining to nuclear secrets what, are the risks entailed there? >> well there is -- the risks are immense. nuclear weapon secrets are not only classified, but beyond where things are normally classified. so, i worked for 25 years on the defense department. we have secret, top secret, top secret compartmentalized information, special access programs and then nuclear weapons which could fall into their own level of classification, about design and things like continuity of government, that is what we would do if we were attacked. how do we get through a nuclear war. the technical stuff is unlikely to be on the president's desk. but here is the thing, the threat, john, is that a foreign adversary would also love to know what is on the president's

desk, but especially about the strategic nuclear deterrent of the united states. i spent a good part of my career studying the soviet union and russia. and i would have given my tonal to have 15 boxes of stuff that have been sitting on vladimir putin's desk, that is an intelligence goldmine and it shouldn't be sit field goal a meat locker in a golf resort or something. but the stuff about nuclear weapons, our adversaries could find out what the disposition and readiness of our forces is, what problems there may be among our nuclear forces. what we're planning to do. how we're planning to mover things around. what our operational plans are for various scenarios. there are all kinds of things that pass through the president's hands that you never want an adversary to see. and so, the risk is just immense.

and if he had those, then that in itself, as joyce was just saying, recovering those documents is a priority all by itself. aside from anything else that may have been going on. >> so, mara -- >> and tom -- >> go ahead, john. >> i'm not wrong that those secrets would have high monetary value among a lot of hostile state and nonstate actors. if you had those access to those secrets and you wanted to try to monetize them, you could get pretty rich doing that, right? >> you know, i've been pushing back on this whole notion that trump stole these things as a nest egg. because i think if we speculate and that speculation could fall through. it's not so much the monetary value. the things that bring in the money is technical stuff. because that is what every country wants to know. but it has value in putting

together a picture of the how the united states operates and how the white house and the oval office operates, depending on what the documents are. with regard to nuclear weapons. so, the only other thing that i would say that could be of any comfort is anything that trump has is at least two years out of date. which, you know, if the justice department knew he had these documents, then anything that would be related to them, if doj knows exactly what they were, then people have been running around changing, you know, whatever might be in there that could be really useful to an adversary. but the big money stuff is plans and technical stuff and i don't know -- again, i don't know what is in there. the fact that he walked out with all of this stuff is such a gross dereliction of duty by a president that i'm not sure we even need to get to whether he ever intended to use them for

anything. this crime, this potential crime is as bad as it gets in terms of the behavior of any former president. >> well, and let's just say right now, it is sources that are telling us in "the washington post" and also in the "times" that nuclear documents, may be contained in the trump search. we don't know that. they are unnamed sources and we won't know that until possibly later on today or perhaps even at a later time. so, but right now, that is what reporters at the post and the "times" are being told. mara, we've been discussing the radicalism, the extreme language, the indirect call to violence that we've been hearing on trump, pro-trump cable news channels, from commentators, podcasters, i just jotted down from pete wayner's atlantic

piece, a lit of comments from members of congress, republican members of congress, who started shooting their mouths off on monday, before they had any idea what was contained in the search, before they had any idea that donald trump viewed the search before they had any idea that the department of justice had been trying to work with trump to get him to cooperate. but, he just refused to fully cooperate. but listen to what members of congress have said just since monday. pro-trump members of congress. this is gestapo crap. these are republican members of congress. this is rogue behavior of communist countries. defund the fbi.

the fbi is the enemy within. a member of gop leadership said, it was an outrageous abuse of power, unamerican. a united states senator said the fbi had launched an attack on our constitutional republic. another said this is what happens with third world marxist dictators and the department of justice saying that of fbi agents saying that of law enforcement officers, all in defense of donald trump, all in defense of a man that they all privately loathe, and who some of these quotes came from presidential candidates who publicly despised him, one of whom said he feared donald trump becoming president because he could get his hands on nuclear

information. and yet, just instinctively, the pavlovian response, the fbi moves to get back highly classified material, and suddenly elected members of congress and the republican party are calling them marxist, calling them community and saying they were unamerican and members of the gestapo. what exactly does that tell us about where the republican party is, especially considering i'm still waiting for the republican senators to hold a press conference and condemn this sort of language. >> it is remarkable, joe. i'm old enough to remember a time in which the republican party wrapped itself in the flag and at least stood up for those values that the flag represented in its own vision.

patriotism is not simply about waving a flag. it is actually about doing the right thing and the hard thing to defend the country. even when it means holding your own party accountability. and so this is really when we find out, you know, who the-- who the patriots are. and this is treasonous. it is not just the principle of seeing democracy denigrated that is so upsetting and deeply just stomach churning, it is also the fact that these republicans and others are creating an environment of political violence. yesterday, we already saw just an inkling of what is possible when somebody tried to breach the fbi field office in ohio. and this is not the first time, obviously yesterday was also the anniversary of charlottesville, so this is a very dangerous environment that they're creating. they are putting americans at risk. not only fbi agents, but any american or anybody really who is seen as the target of the far

right. and so, that could really be anybody. and i think it is also important because what they're doing is telling a story that the true americans are trump supporters. everybody else is the enemy. so, it is very dangerous. it has historical press department. i'm not a historian, i don't feel qualified to talk about, but that dates back to the civil war. it is very scary and it is very serious and it is treasonous behavior in my view. >> and we saw yesterday the consequences of it. in cincinnati. but tom, our former party right now as members in congress, who have accused the fbi for trying to get highly classified material back into safe hands, calling the fbi the gestapo. calling them communists. saying we should defund the fbi.

calling the fbi the enemy within. saying law enforcement officers were engaging an outrageous abuses of power. they were unamerican for trying to get secret classified material out of the hands of a private individual and back to where it belonged. a senator saying, that the fbi attacked our constitutional republic. and another talking about third world marxist dictators behaved the same way the fbi agents behaved. this is the same senator in 2016 who said that he feared for donald trump taking the presidency because he would have his hands on nuclear secrets. what do you say about our former party? >> well, one of them, one of the things that strikes me is that you could take everything that the republicans have been saying and it sounds like unhinged left-ists from 1968. it sounds like a meeting of the

sds, or radical leftist organization in the 1960s. the fbi is the enemy. the fbi is the gestapo. it is the enemy within. this is like a bunch of unhinged college kids in the mid-60s. what is really said, and i think it is really important to emphasize mara's point here about how they now view, republicans and trumpers view anyone who doesn't agree with them, who doesn't support trump is the enemy. it is not about disagreement about policy or disagreement about government or the law, it's either you are part of this cult of personality, or you are my enemy. and that is incredibly dangerous and stupid. because the elected republicans, most of them, know better. and what they're really telling you with these kinds of comments, joe, is how afraid they are of the republican rank

and file and especially the ones who vote in the primaries. these republican elected wants to be in washington. they don't want to go home. they don't want to cross their primary voters and the party has simply become a vehicle to serve itself. it is power for the sake of exercising power. there are no principles, there is no underlying philosophy, it is stay in washington and not going home and living among your constituents. one positive development this morning, apparently all of the republican congressman who were about to go out and hold a news conference this morning, i just saw coming across the wires, apparently they've decided maybe that wasn't a good idea. so maybe the better part of valor over took there. >> joyce vance, we have to get to break. but give us a sense of between today and monday, what we'll be looking for in terms of legal movements and deadlines?

>> well it will be interesting to see what happens with the judge today. one option is that the search warrant gets released and we're all studying that over the weekend and discerning what we can. still undisclosed would be the search warrant affidavit. that is the probable cause that the agent puts together, in this case i would expect that there would be more than probable cause contained in that affidavit. there are some third parties asking the court to release it. the doj would likely push back because much of the information contained in that warrant would be classified in the affidavit, it would be classified. but it is possible that a reacted version could be released. and it is interesting that merrick garland yesterday made a point of saying that when doj speaks, it speaks in court. he carved out that narrow middle lane of doing what justice required and not what a president or a political party required. and in this case, that could well dictate that we see maybe a

slenderized version of that affidavit as the weekend moves forward. >> all right. joyce vance, tom nicolle, mara gay, thank you very much for being on. john heilemann, thank you as well. working triple duty for the network. former president trump wasn't the only republican to be searched by the fbi. we'll have the latest information on the investigation into congressman scott perry who had his phone seized this week. plus majority leader chuck schumer explains in one word how he got the inflation reduction act passed in the senate. and speaking of the ira, tim ryan joins us hours before the house is set to send the bill to the president's desk. all of that when "morning joe" returns. >> look at that beautiful shot. >> sedona, arizona. >> gorgeous.

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welcome back to "morning joe." 29 past the hour. the house will vote today on the inflation reduction act. the sweeping package includes record funding for the climate and allows medicare to negotiate drug prices for the first time. and it comes with the midterm elections right around the corner. democrats once bleak outlook now looking maybe more promising. >> let's bring in ohio democratic nominee for the u.s. senate running against butters, tim ryan joins us now. thank you so much for being with us. i'll ask you in a little bit whether you're opponent has figure the out whether he loved silicon valley or loved silicon valley or loves or hates san

francisco. loves a little silicon valley tech fest or hates a little silicon valley tech fest. but first let's talk about something very serious. mika and i have been warning all week about the reckless language thrown around by republican members of congress and the house and the senate by pro-trump media outlets and we've been warning, mika pleaded yesterday for them to stop and pull back on the language that was going to encourage violence. and then of course we saw the tragedy in your home state. what -- i'm sure you'd like to say something about that at the beginning of this conversation, about our law enforcement officers and the risk, the added risk they're under because of this hate speech. >> yeah. i appreciate that. joe, it is first, thank you to the law enforcement officials who showed up, fbi, state highway patrol, local law enforcement, all did a hell of a job keeping this threat

contained. but, you know, i think it is important for us to remember, this is cincinnati, ohio. these are moms and dads would are public servants who are trying to protect the rest of the country and enforce federal laws and prevent crimes. >> that on the weekends, take their kids to the bengals game or to the cincinnati reds baseball game. these are human beings who are trying to do what is right. they serve the public and the country. we have to support law enforcement. and that is the bottom line here. this is a country of laws, and the freedoms that we have are based on the rule of law and these are people who help enforce that. so it is ridiculous. it is not going unnoticed either as you mentioned earlier, there is a lot of republicans including j.d. vance who haven't said a word even thanking law enforcement down in cincinnati for what they've endured in the past couple of days. and i think that speaks volumes about where they are as far as supporting law enforcement and in ohio and around the country. >> yeah, what is so interesting

is, they talk about defending the blue, they talk about defending law enforcement officers, they fly the flag, they put on the bumper stickers. and yet, if it doesn't suit their political purposes, then they remain silent or even attack law enforcement officers when they have the hell beaten out of them by american flags on january 6th, or when we see these threats and these attacks against the fbi. again, let me -- these are republican members of congress. would you love to hear any republican. because i sure as hell know if i were still in congress and i were a republican member of congress i would be attacking these broadsides against law enforcement. but republican members of congress have accused the fbi this week of being the gestapo, of being communists and saying we should defund the fbi. by the way, the group that stops terrorists attacks in the united

states and protects every american called them -- our law enforcement officers the enemy within. the gop leadership, talking about the fbi outrageous abuse of power, call our law enforcement officers unamerican. the senator talked about the fbi's attack on our constitutional republic. another republican senator accused them of -- of being a third world marxist dictators. and yet, the silence is deafening from republicans. not just republicans from the house and the senate, but like you said, even the republicans that you're running against, other republicans out there, for the love of god, defend law enforcement. say something. right? >> yeah. well here is the deal. these guys aren't republicans, joe. these guys are extremists. and i've been talking about this for the last you know year and a half now. this is about the exhausted

majority of us. democrats, republicans, independents who have to confront the extremists. and in this country, if we don't do that, we're going to see -- continue to see more and more of what we've seen. this is unamerican behavior. trying to undermine the rule of law, to try to undermine law enforcement. like, look, we could have conversations about all of this, but you have to have law enforcement and you have to back these people that are keeping us all safe. this is a terrorist act and we need to call it such. it was a terrorist act in cincinnati, ohio, of a radical person who tried to kill fbi agents. that is not how we wanted to leave this country for our grandkids. rule of law and freedom and they're keeping us safe and done a hell of a job and these are moms and dads and we need to stand by them, period end of story, there is no conversation around that. >> all right. let's have a conversation about the inflation reduction act. how do you think this will

change the lives of not just your constituents, but all americans? >> well this is a very, very good package. i mean, it has deficit reduction in there. and we have to acknowledge that we've been spending more than we're taking in and we have to start, you know, paying down the national debt and that starts with reducing our an deficit. this bill does that. seniors are getting hammered. my mom included, could pay a thousand dollars a month out of pocket in the compare program. this caps that at $2,000 out of pocket that a senior would have to spend on their prescription drugs. and it also allows us to actually finally, after all of the years talking about it, negotiate down the drug prices. >> that means more money in people's pockets and what i like best about this is it positions us to rebuild the great american middle class. it puts ohio and america as the arsenal of energy. we have had the arsenal of

democracy. we need to be the arsenal of energy. we see what is going on in ukraine with putin and china, we have so be the source of energy for world and this allows us to bridge through natural gas which is going to create thousands and thousands of jobs in places like ohio, help us continue to reduce carbon around the world hopefully, and reduce prices for american citizens and then you take ohio for example, like this bill should say made in ohio. because when you look at the history of ohio, we did stealing in youngston and glass in toledo, aerospace around the country or around the state and now we're talking about building electric vehicles in lordstown, ohio, batteries, all over the state and solar panels in toledo, natural gas in the eastern and southern part of the state. new versions of aerospace. new i was of using coal waste in places lake southeast ohio. this is an amazing opportunity

to rebuild the middle class and dominate the industries of the future and this is a life line. and you add the chips bill and the infrastructure bill which will have jobs and we're well positioned in ohio but this is about the industrial midwest and the united states outcompeting china in the industries of the future and this is a down payment on us doing that. >> ohio democratic nominee for u.s. senate, congressman tim ryan. thank you very much for being on this morning. appreciate it. >> thank you. and coming up, new reporting about an agency wide statement sent by fbi director christopher wray about the safety and security of his agents after the attack in ohio. we'll have that for you when "morning joe" returns.

large out-of-state corporations have set their sights on california. they've written prop 27, to allow online sports betting. they tell us it will fund programs for the homeless. but read prop 27's fine print. 90% of profits go to out-of-state corporations, leaving almost nothing for the homeless. no real jobs are created here. but the promise between our state and our sovereign tribes would be broken forever.

these out-of-state corporations don't care about california. but we do. stand with us. shingles. some describe it as pulsing electric shocks or sharp, stabbing pains. ♪♪ this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. a pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. beautiful shot of capitol hill in washington, d.c. on a friday morning. senate majority leader chuck schumer revealed how a deal was reached on the inflation reduction act when he joined us

earlier this morning. >> well let's talk about the real -- the big question, how did this get done? i mean, for a year and a half we saw democrats debating each other, attacking each other in the halls, running to members of press talking about why other democrats were inadequate in their responses or positions on different issues. and then you and joe manchin come out and announce that you've got a deal. how did it happen? >> i'll describe one word that helped get this done more than anything else. persistence. we just kept at it. that is who i am. i'm a persistent fella. and we have a lot of obstacles and road blocks and dead ends but we kept at it because we knew how important it was to get something done. and even though it wasn't everything everybody wanted, certainly not what i wanted, it is a major, major accomplishment and his almost universal acceptance in the democratic party.

it was a unanimous vote. and if you'll indulge me i'll tell you one more point that relates to this. so my dad passed away in november and i was very close to him. mika, i know you lost your dad recently as well. and maybe you understand this, he's still sitting here with me. he had a difficult life. he a junky little exterminating business and he hated it and never complained and brilliant guy that could never go to college due to circumstances and was never recenting other people who might have gotten a better break than him. but he taught me two things above all and they're with me. one, always try to help people who need help. that is one of the most noble things you could do. but second, if you know you are doing the right thing and you persist and keep at it, god will make sure, as he head it, god will make sure you succeed. that is motivating me and i think a lot of us here keep at it, keep at it, keep at it and you could get something done and that is what happened.

>> coming up, we're going to have brand-new reporting about action taken by the fbi against a sitting u.s. congressman. morning joe will be right back. from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.

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so we need something super distinctive... dad's work, meet daughter's playtime. thankfully, meta portal auto pans and zooms to keep you in frame. and the meeting on track. meta portal. the smart video calling device that makes work from home work for you. the doj and fbi are supposed to be above politics. but if you just look at the targeted actions against the president, at the same time you have people like hillary clinton, hunter biden and the leaker of dobbs draft decision walking away with no investigations. >> starting in january, we're going to investigate, we're going to litigate and, wait for it, we're going to incarcerate, okay. you are lawless. you're running this like a

gestapo. >> i do not trust the fbi, i don't trust the upper echelons at the department of justice. this corruption has run deep, it has been running deep since the hillary clinton email scandal. >> you know, it is horrible that they would say that, mika, about a republican about a republican-appointed fbi director. in fact, an fbi director that donald trump said had the highest integrity. >> allies of the former president railing against the justice department after its legal authorized search of donald trump's home and we don't know more than that. there's nothing to say, guys. and trump is not the only one who had a visit from the fbi this week. federal agents seized the cell phone of pennsylvania congressman scott perry as well. our next guest has new reporting on that. justice department reporter from the "new york times," katie benner. also with us ken dilanian.

he's been reporting on the fbi's response to the uptick in threats against the agency. thank you both for joining us this morning. katie, i'll start with you, what is the latest -- what's the latest that we know about what's going on with the congressman? >> i think the most pertinent thing with scott perry is his lawyers say he's cooperating with any investigation. his lawyers say he's done nothing wrong and the investigators have told him he's not a target of any inquiry. what we know from the warrant that he was served is this is part of the larger investigation into a former justice department official, jeffrey clark, who at the end of the trump administration tried to work with the former president to keep him in power in ways that are being investigated as possibly unlawful. >> yeah. and so the -- the phone inquiry, we don't know what they're going to find yet on it. but everything now, you know, is a question including what

happened at mar-a-lago. ken dilanian, i would like to first talk to you about the assumptions being made about what was found at mar-a-lago, the assumptions being made about the fbi, the assumptions being made on live television or by republicans in trump's corner which is most of them. are there any assumptions that can be made at this point? how dangerous is it to jump to conclusions that something went wrong? >> mika, we saw exactly how dangerous it is yesterday when a man who was present outside the capitol on january 6th attacked an fbi field office in cincinnati armed with a nail gun and an ar-15-style rifle and a shootout ensued. thankfully, no fbi agent or other law enforcement official was killed. the gunman himself was killed by law enforcement. and now we see that he was posting all kinds of threats to the fbi on donald trump's social media platform truth social. and, you know, this is the

progression that is the worst nightmare of american counter official terrorisms. we see reputable politicians denouncing the fbi. a u.s. senator from florida compared the fbi to the gestapo. they said we have to do away with the fbi. and then i'm told from sources in the open source intelligence world, you saw a massive uptick in threats of violence against fbi personnel and fbi facilities over the last few days and then yesterday you had an attack by someone who is clearly marinating in these threats and believing all the things that he's hearing from these far-right figure who is are trashing the fbi and the justice department with no evidence. i mean, look, it's fine to be skeptical. we saw that the fbi made serious mistakes when they sought those pfizer warrants during the trump-russia investigation. an fbi lawyer lost his career over it, was prosecuted.

it's okay to be skeptical. but we have no evidence at this moment, no reason to suggest that there's any political motivation, that there's anything untoward about what the justice department and the fbi are doing in terms of this mar-a-lago search. >> again, yeah, sure, the fbi like every agency makes mistake and is they've made mistakes not only over the last administration but in previous administrations as well. katie, though, when we're talking about assumptions, you have the republicans who have been making assumptions about what this is all about. all morning this morning we've been talking about sources telling "the washington post" and "new york times" about nuclear documents. i think it also bears repeating, we don't know what's going to be in these documents until they're actually released. perhaps -- i mean we can report that the sources are saying that. but, again, you've done enough reporting before that you really don't know until you actually see the documents themselves,

right? >> yes, and we could see those documents very soon. we had reported yesterday that people in trump's orbit were considering possibly challenging the unsealing of this warrant. trump came out last night around midnight and said on his social media platform that, in fact, he was not going to challenge this unsealing. we could see these documents very soon given that i don't think that it's really wise to speculate about what could be in them or what impact it will have. >> and, ken, finally merrick garland has been criticized by the left for not moving fast enough, he's been criticized by trumpers for being a member of the gestapo, how do most neutral observers view his performance as leader of the doj this week? >> look, i think people are giving him a lot of credit for a rather deft move here, essentially daring the trump

side to put up or shut up. not many people saw this coming, that they were going to try to move to unseal the warrant and the inventory. unfortunately, not the affidavit of probable cause. but clearly they're trying to protect sensitive material there. look, you know, we still don't know exactly how aggressively garland is moving in these january 6th matters. in this mar-a-lago search, it's hard to criticize on its face what he's been doing. >> katie brenner, thank you so much, and thank you as well as always, nbc's ken dilanian. mika, it's been an extraordinarily busy week, but it's been a week, again, that i think we've reconfirmed that no man is above the law and also, as you've been warning us about these documents, about us not knowing what's actually inside these documents, it's just as

important to be holding in their minds the other truth that in america, all people are innocent until proven guilty. >> absolutely. and i think some of the conspiracy theorists and even some of the skills that trump has used against this democracy has been to stir up the ambiguity and to actually take advantage of the ambiguity in a situation. so it's important here to follow the information and not to get in front of it. >> right. you're right. he stirs it up, creates the ambiguity, lives in that ambiguity so his opponents will overreach. >> yeah. this has been a very busy week and we look ahead to another one. we look forward to seeing you all first thing monday morning. >> thanks for being with us. >> jose diaz-balart picks up msnbc's live coverage after a quick break. ick break. fits. just like people earned their social security and medicare benefits.

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good morning. 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. we begin with new developments in the fbi search of former president trump's mar-a-lago estate earlier this week. this morning the former president is denying a "washington post" report that fbi agents were looking for classified documents related to nuclear weapons among other things when they carried out that search. nbc news has not independently confirmed "the washington post" report which is according to people familiar with the investigation. trump said in a