hello, i'm joe fryer live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. we're watching two huge stories unfolding now. the first out of south florida. we are expecting the eminent release of the search warrant used in monday's fbi search at mar-a-lago. the second on capitol hill where the house will begin voting this afternoon on the democrat's big health care and climate change bill. we are going to start in florida as we wait for that search warrant ask a list of items taken from former president trump's home earlier this week. the doj gave trump's team a chance to oppose the release instead trump said he encouraged it. that unsealed document could fill in some of the blanks helping us understand why the

fbi felt the search was necessary. one clue may come from a stunning new report in "the washington post." fbi agents were looking for classified documents related to america's nuclear program. that's according to people familiar with the investigation. nbc news has not confirmed that report. this morning trump called it a hoax. one of his attorneys was asked about it on fox. she was not quite so explicit. >> is it your understanding there were not documents related to our nuclear capabilities or nuclear issues that had national security implications in the president's possession when the agents showed up at mar-a-lago? >> that's correct. >> do you know for a fact? have you spoken to the president about it? >> i have not specifically spoken to the president about what nuclear materials may or may not have been in there. i do not believe there were any

in there. >> i want to bring in justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. charles kohlman is a former prosecutor. carol lam, is former attorney. and michael steele is former rnc chairman. ken, let's start with you. where do things stand? the question you have been asked about 500 times today, what will we see and won't we see when the judge release this is information? >> good afternoon, joe. as of this hour, the justice department still has not filed the document with the court. the notice to the judge to ask him to rule to unseal this. they have until 3:00 p.m. to do that. after that it can come at any time. in terms of what we will and won't see. a typical search warrant has three parts. one part is the affidavit of probable cause. that is the thing that the justice department is not asking to unseal. that includes the basis for the search. essentially, the fbi's justification to the judge that a crime was committed. that evidence of that crime is

present at mar-a-lago and might have information about confidential sources and discuss the larger context of the investigation. a lot of secrets stuff in there. the justice department wants to protect. so what they are asking to unseal is the face of the warrant. a one-page document. then an appendix that would list the things the fbi was looking to seeds and an inventory or a receipts page that lists the documents they did seize. and the real question is going to be how detailed are the nations. how are they describing the documents. if they are classified, they can't get into details. so it likely will be general. i'm told we will learn things from this document about the seriousness of this investigation and the sensitivity of some of these documents that were found at mar-a-lago. >> so the the doj does not want to unseal the affidavit for probable cause. remind us what that is and why would the doj not want to make that public right now?

>> sure. the affidavit in support of probable cause is the document that's given to the magistrate judge by the agent who swears under oath to the accuracy of the information in it. the reasons the justice department place it is under seal and generally does not move to unseal it until much further down in the proceedings is because it contains erg basically that the government knows about this criminal investigation. it would include anybody who has brought information to the government's attention. it would include the back and forth that's gone on with the former president and his alies and teams. it would include information that is still confidential now to the investigation. when you're running a criminal investigation, you certain lu don't want to be giving a road map to the person being investigated. so it's really a very simple prospect. but this affidavit could run 10 pages, 50 pages, 200 pages.

so it will have a lot of information in it, including probably some hearsay and tips because they are in middle of the investigation, they are starting to review the documents taken from mar-a-lago, this would not be the time the justice department would want to make that information public. >> charles, we talk about the search warrant here. what is it that you're most interested to see once this is released. >> there's been a lot of conversation from the trump organization and people around them about sbrnl leaks and rats. i'm going to be looking to see whether this gives insight as to where the documents were located in mar-a-lago. that's important for a couple reasons. when you're seeking to get a search warrant from a judge, you're suppose odd to particularly plead with great specificity where in the residence those items are located. mar-a-lago is huge property. you're not going to able to identify where those things are unless you have someone from the inside. i think the degree of detail

that we may see in the specificity around the location of where the documents are is going to give insight as to is there a leak from the inside s there a rat, is someone giving information to the doj and cooperating. we likely know there is, but this is one thing that's going to confirm it. >> carol, i want to ask about the report from "the washington post." nbc news has not confirmed, but the post is reporting agents were looking for classified documents related to nuclear weapons. those are the kind of documents that would justify this kind of search. >> well, sure. anything that the former president took from mar-a-lago he was not supposed to take, would be enough to use a subpoena or search warrant to try to get it back. often the justice department would not resort to a search warrant opposed to a request or subpoena unless they were

concerned about the location of the documents and what might happen to the adjustments. i don't think there's any question that what we're talking about here are classified documents. if they include nuclear information, that ratchets the concern up that much higher. >> trump put out a message refuting the report suggesting that the fbi planted evidence. on the if this list, this search warrant that comes out today and the property receipt shows exactly that, those documents, do you think it's going to matter to trump supporters? and no matter what's in the search warrant, how much is this going to matter to elected lawmakers that have been defending the president this week? >> when you're deaf, dumb and blind, anything donald trump says it doesn't matter. donald trump is setting his own narrative. he's got boxed out by the

attorney general, quite honestly. the bluff was called. now they are trying to save face because they never thought that the more traditional cautious to a fault attorney general would actually move the way he has. so now he's scrambling. that's why his lawyer is sitting on fox news not know whag the client knows or having talked to him. and that's how trump likes it. so you have that side of it. trump wants the story to go in his direction. merrick garland has redefined what that story is. now they are scrambling. on the other side of that, you have republicans on the hill trying to stay as quiet about this as they possibly can. secretly hoping this thing blows up and prevents trump from getting into the presidential race. while sat at the same time, claiming those documents may have been planted and now we want to defund the fbi.

that level of deaf, dumb and blindness to what merrick garland is putting out in front here is going to make it more difficult once this is ultimately revealed for them to hold those positions. so what you see trump doing is trying to realign the narrative, put some other information, create some distance so that people can believe something other than what the facts are telling them. >> let's get a little deeper. if the classified documents are at all related to nuclear weapons to a nuclear program, why is that so important? what could be done with documents like that? >> anything related to nuclear weapons are some of the most highly classified information in the u.s. government. there's actually specific statutes that the nuclear information, the atonic energy acts. it's a separate category. for understandable reasons. and we don't know what this could pertain to.

but whatever it is, it's incredibly sensitive and something that the the u.s. government would not want to fall into the wrong hands. >> you want to play part of what merrick garland said yesterday about the search. >> the department does not take such decision lightly. where possible, it's standard practice to seek less intrusive means as an alternative to a search and to narrowly scope any search that is undertaken. >> so he's suggesting flost other way to get these documents. we know there was a subpoena earlier in the spring. do you think this was the last resort? and at this point, we have to look at the possibilities here. could it just be they did the search warrant and got him back. that's the end of story or could we discover there's much more to this? >> i think that it's more likely that there's much more to this as part of a deeper investigation. the justification for how they behaved in this way, how they went about their actions is

substantiated by the notion of we had a subpoena. they ignored the subpoena. now we had to get a search warrant. that's all they need to establish in order to move in that way. s if so he has legitimized the search warrant by explaining we had a subpoena. we took every route possible before we got to this point. so it would be the least intrusive means of trying to get the information we need. so that on the surface supplies everything that he needs to reach what delirium tremens he has done. but it's more likely than not that this is part of a larger investigation. this is not the last we're going to hear of this. there's a reason he wants to documents. the fact that trump has the documents and they are at mar-a-lago, that's a violation of federal law in terms of where the records are supposed to be houdsed. he doesn't need anything else. but everything we're watching from the doj suggests that this is much more in line with the larger investigation connected

to any number of different things at this point that trump is facing. >> we also heard him say he wouldn't stand for the attacks on the integrity that we have been hearing about. yet here's what we heard from some republicans in just the last 36 hours. >> starting in january, we're going to investigate. we're going to litigate, and wait for it, we're going to incarcerate. you are lawless. you're running this. >> i do not trust the fbi or the i want upper echelons of the department of justice. this corruption has run deep. it's been running deep since the hillary clinton e-mail scandal. >> frankly, we're very strong support etc. of law enforcement. it concerns everybody if you see some agents go rogue. that doesn't have the right checks and balances at the top. >> who went rogue? they were following a search warrant. >> we want to find that out. >> on top of that, a poll done wednesday found that more than 40% of americans believe the

search was an abuse of power that should be investigated. when you hear that 40% r you surprised anymore? >> no, because it shows the effectiveness of getting out in front and defining a narrative. the justice department was rightly quiet. they don't talk about ongoing investigation. trump depose out to soil the soil. so tear up the ground and plant bad seeds. so that 40% doesn't surprise me. you have noes trust in the fbi. was that not trust when they were investigating hillary clinton? or did you stop having that trust because they are going after your boy? which one is it? you can see the hypocrisy and the lies. they are embedded in the thing itself. so what has to happen is because you have one party right now, that is wholesale against anything related to the rule of law, the establishment of the

constitutional order of things, you've got to have stronger narratives coming from the rest of us. to push back on this because that 40% will grow. that's the fwoel here. let's be clear about what the goal is here. this is about reestablishing the ground. putting trump in a position to make a run for the presidency. when steve bannon says we're going to do all these things, listen to what they are telling you. have a picture of your future right in front of you where they are going to be investigating and incarcerating. who are they talking about? so this is the ground we're on now. and that 40% will grow if good people who stand for democracy are not in a position and do not place themselves in a position to push back. that 40% will grow. >> thank you all for kicking us off this hour. we appreciate it. we're following other breaking news out of new york. state police are investigaing

an attack on celebrated author salman rushdie. a man rushed the stage as rushdie was introduced as an event in western new york. the author suffered what police are calling an apparent stab wound to the neck. he was flown by helicopter to the hospital. his condition is not known. the interviewer was also attacked and suffered a minor head injury. a state trooper working the event took the suspect into custody. police have not released any information about a possible motive. nbc news reached out to rushdie's representatives and a local law enforcement for more information. we'll monitor this. right now, we're keeping a close eye on capitol hill where a final vote on the inflation reduction act is expected any minute. how confident are democrats feeling that this is going to pass? i'll have the congresswoman next. plus new covid guidelines enacted by the cdc. is this the right time to loosen the rules? right time to loosen the rus?le i'm a fancy exercise bike noobie.

and i've gone from zero to obsessed in like... three days. instructor: come on milwaukee! i see you! after riding twelve miles to nowhere, i'm taking a detour. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, you could be working out a way to pay for this yourself. get allstate and be better protected from mayhem for a whole lot less.

open. it's a beautiful word. neighborhoods "open". businesses "open". fields "open". who doesn't love "open"? offices. homes. stages. possibilities. your world. open. and you can help keep it that way. ♪♪ the tenth pick is in the new all-american club.

that's a “club” i want to join! let's hear from simone. chuck, that's a club i want to join! i literally just said that. i like her better than you the new subway series. what's your pick? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

right now we're keeping an eye on the house of representatives. a final vote is expected this afternoon on the inflation reduction act. if it passes t will deliver a major victory to democrats as they try to build momentum before the midterm elections, which are three months away. the bill is expected to pass, but there's still questions about how much it will reduce inflation. for more let's bring in ali vitali, author of the new book "electable: why america hasn't

put a woman in the white house yet". along with jake sherman, co-founder of punch bowl news. ali, what is the latest on the hill? how confident are democrats that this is going to pass this afternoon? >> reporter: they are confident. i know jake makes the point this that legislating process has had tons of twists and turns, but it does look like house democrats reasons able to get this over the finish line. it comes after a very lengthy negotiating process. all of us have covered the it rations of this bill, back when it was build back better and in its current form now, which touches climate, the economy, as well as health care. all of these priorities are key in this. it comes sandwiched with a lot of legislative wins for the democrats and the white house. the pact act, that supports veterans was passed prior to this. this inflation reduction act,

all of it gives the air of democrats coming out of washington with momentum, and that's important as they try to leverage into going forward. the economy is going to be one of the top items on veerts' minds. it's the things republicans will continuously try to make the referendum on biden and democrats. and now in the name, the inflation reduction act, and democrats are happy to have it. >> thank you for joinings. jake, the twists and turns in punch bowl this morning, you pointed out how hard the path has been over the last year. your take away, anything can happen. legislating takes a lot of twists and turns. what does it mean this vote is happening? >> i would say it really highlights the persistence of chuck schumer, the senate majority leader, and nancy pelosi. this process is, again, sandwiched between two chambers, a president that has been in and

out of these negotiations, but i will say this. my big take away here is when joe biden and the white house let the hill handle this, it got done. they kind of ejected themselves from the debate, from the negotiating and left it to chuck schumer and joe manchin, and it got done. quite frankly, the failure of the bill over the last 18 months is key in its success. progressives were faced with the -- it was not a reality, but we're faced with the prospect of not getting anything across the finish line besides some changes to health care law. now they have this bill, which can has climate priorities, has tax priorities, has a whole host of big-ticket democratic priorities. one senior senate democrat said to me, 75% of the build back better bill is in this bill. so i would say that progressives are now willing to accept this because they have seen the flip side. which is that something extraordinarily narrow and very paired back could have got done

and now not getting done. this big bill is getting done. >> speaker pelosi spoke about the vote. let's see what she had to say. >> today is really a glorious day for us. we send to the president's desk a monumental bill that will be truly for the people, the inflation reduction act. i commend leader schumer, he did a masterful job in the senate for his work to send the legislation to the presidential, to us and then the president. sadly, for all the good it does without one republican vote. >> we often refer to the biden agenda, so the president will claim a lot of credit for passing it. you mentioned senator schumer, but how big of an accomplishment for speaker pelosi? >> reporter: it's a huge accomplishment. if you think about this, the senate is 50/50. chuck schumer had zero votes to spare. nancy pelosi has four votes to

spare. i have seen a lot larger majorities struggle to do things half as ambitious as this. and i'm not talking about what whether what's in the big is good, bad or indifferent. that's for voters to decide. and for partisans to decide. but the scope of this bill is huge and the margins in both chambers are narrow. so just given that basic fact, it's a huge victory for pelosi and schumer and for joe biden, just because he's going to be able to sign this into law. they are executing on his vision, a vision he laid out in the 2020 campaign. the larger question is how does this play in front of an electorate that's tired of covid, facing rising food prices, rising gas prices for the last couple months, although they are falling now. this is going to take awhile for people to feel, does this give voters confidence that democrats should still be in charge of the

house and senate and we'll see about that in less than 100 days. for a sense of how members of the house are feeling about the vote, the congresswoman is here, chair of the progressive caucus. good to have you with us. how confident are you this bill is going to pass? even though many of your caucuses top agenda items didn't make it in? >> it is absolutely going to pass. it's going to pass because so many of our items are in there. it's obviously not everything, but we just have to be clear that progressives in particular held the line back when we were sent an infrastructure bill with no reconciliation bill. because we held the line, we were able to get legislation drafted that was build back better. and now today what we are passing on the floor contains significant pieces of build back better. we're going to take on climate change, reduce health care costs, make sure we're taxing

the wealthiest and all of this so americans can have more opportunity and believe that government works for them. so it's a great day for us. i'm really thrilled to be voting yes on this bill. >> you have told nbc news you are, quote, heartbroken other priorities didn't make it into the bill. that includes child care funding, child tax credit payments, universal pre-k, immigration relief, how do you make sure those are addressed in the future? will there be another opportunity to pass anything with those items? >> absolutely. that's the work, i think, that we need to look at as a country. that we have done in the last year. we really built the record. we built the legislation. it is all drafted and it had 99% of democrats in the house and senate behind it. it's the president's economic agenda. and i believe with just a couple more democrats in the senate, holding the house, we will be able to pass it early in the

next term. and we will ensure universal pre-k, child care, investments in houseing, one of the biggest costs for americans that continues to go up. these are the things that will ultimately have people wake up every day and feel differently about their lives and livelihoods. we're going to get it done. we got so close, but we couldn't quite get enough votes for this other piece. it's unfortunate. but we are not giving up. we'll have our pedal to the metal. >> the title of the bill, it promises inflation reduction. so if this is passed, if it's signed, how quickly do you think americans will start to see some prices come down? where are they going to see prices drop? >> yes, i think immediately people are going to see the health care pieces around insulin, capping the costs of insulin. seniors will not have to make choices and rationing their insulin, which is essential if you have diabetes. and also i think the continuation of the affordable care act subsidies, it's something had we not passed this

bill when we did, we wuf had subsidies run out they are going to stay the same. but also the energy savings. i think we'll very quickly see energy savings about $1,000 a year for the average american family. but people can get electric vehicles, all these other renewable energy technologies that are not just good for the planet, but are going to cut costs. and with all these people buying those products, we are going to bring down the cost of renewables and hopefully accelerate even more than the 40% by 2030 the ability to cut carbon emissions. >> i want to talk about the search warrant executed at marla go and the rise in violent rhetoric that's followed it. you have experienced political violence yourself last month. a mans was charged with felony stalking for standing outside your home and yelling expletives

while armed with a pistol. we're tight on time, but how worry are the you right now about the rise in violent political rhetoric? >> i'm very worried about it. everybody should be worried about it. this has been unleashed and the language we're listening to from the republicans is terrifying. when they continue to talk about a frame that encourages people to get arms and even today just attacking salman rushdie on stage. it's a huge brob being unleashed by donald trump and the way in which republicans are talking about what's happening in this country. >> congresswoman, thank you for taking time to join us on a very busy friday. we appreciate it. >> thank you. new security measures implemented by the fbi after an armed man tried breaking into an ohio field office with a nail gun. more details on the suspect and his reported violent online rhetoric. we'll keep that conversation going in a moment. nversation going in a moment. it's dr. scholl's time. our custom fit orthotics use foot mapping technology

to give you personalized support, for all-day pain relief. find your relief in store or online.

non-gaming tribes have been left in the dust. wealthy tribes with big casinos make billions, while small tribes struggle in poverty. prop 27 is a game changer. 27 taxes and regulates online sports betting to fund permanent solution to homelessness. while helping every tribe in california.

so who's attacking prop 27? wealthy casino tribes who want all the money for themselves support small tribes, address homelessness. vote yes on 27. vo: hi. we're zerowater. and we believe everyone deserves the purest tasting water. that's why we strive for zero. you see, to some it means nothing. but to us, it means everything. here, take a look. this meter showing triple zeros means our five-stage filter did its job. and that virtually all dissolved solids, or tds, have been removed. and all that's left is the purest tasting water. let's compare. a two-stage brita filter stops here. but our five-stage filter doesn't quit. zero water. we strive for zero. the fbi is boosting security across the country after an armed suspect fired a nail gun at an fbi field office in cincinnati, ohio. the suspect was shot and killed by law enforcement in a standoff

yesterday afternoon. police are still investigating the motive. however, it appears the suspect posted online threats about his desire to kill fbi agents this week. shortly after the search at the former president's mar-a-lago residence. new images appear to place him at the capitol on january 6th. it remains unclear whether he entered the building that day. i want to bring in shaquille brewster live in cincinnati. also with us is ben collins, who tracks disinformation and extremism. shaq, let's start with you. what more can you tell us about the investigation into how this unfolded? >> reporter: the fbi is saying they are reviewing the entire incident and calling it an agent-involved shooting. we know from state and local thofrts it began here at the fbi field office in cincinnati when the man walked up to the visitor processing or visitor screening center. he fired a nail gun at personnel. that tripped an alarm. while it didn't hit personnel, it tripped an alarm and he waved

an ar-style weapon before fleeing this lotion. location. it was later when state troopers saw the vehicle involved in this incident. they then followed him and led to a pursuit to a location about 30 minutes away. and that's when the suspect got out of the car, started firing at officers and they exchanged gunfire. you saw the six-hour standoff take place in a corn field in another part of ohio. it ended once they tried to close in after negotiations. he raised his rifle toward him. that's when they shot and killed him. what we're hearing now is this is kind of what they feared would happen when they saw the increase in threats after the search of martin bashir this week. you heard from the fbi director saying that all americans should be concerned about the threats of violence against members of his law enforcement. he sent out an e-mail to members of the fbi saying that their security is his top priority.

also suggesting that they are changing their posture around some of these field offices. so that investigation continues as we speak. we know even as of earlier today, folks were at the site of that incident, of that standoff processing the scene a little bit more. we'll wait to learn more from both local and federal authorities. >> so we heard it there. the fbi was already worried. you this week were already reporting on this violent online rhetoric after the mar-a-lago search. that was before this incident in cincinnati. now we have this. what are you learning about the suspect's online profile? >> i want to make this clear. this was a guy who was very in the depths of the pro trump internet. not in the extremist neo-nazi, but the pro hfr trump internet. he's been posting about how 17 6 is coming again. he mostly replied to mainstream politicians. but the difference was this week, he got a target. people started saying we have to

go after the fbi. the fbi is coming to take our guns. if they go after donald trump, they will go after you. that was the difference that week for him. he said on tuesday that everyone has to kill fbi agents on site. the difference between that rhetoric became a very specific target this week. >> what are you seeing since this incident in ohio? what are you seeing online? is the chatter intensified? >> the chatter is static. it's the same as it's been all week. they don't believe he did this shooting. people on pro trump forums think this is a false flag because they can't accept that a terrorist could be in their midst. so they live in this weird reality where they want people to do this, but they don't want to take credit for any terror attacks committed in their name. >> ben collins and shaquille, we appreciate your reporting. we have breaking news on the

search of mar-a-lago and new reporting on what was taken and the top secret documents reportedly involved. stay with us. that's next. d. stay with us that's next. it's 5:00 a.m., and i feel like i can do anything. we've been coming here, since 1868. there's a lot of cushy desk jobs out there, but this is my happy place. there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. learn more at deere.com when tired, achy feet make your whole body want to stop, it's dr. scholl's time. our insoles are designed with unique massaging gel waves, for all-day comfort and energy. find your relief in store or online. a monster was attacking but the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose. new astepro allergy. no allergy spray is faster.

with the speed of astepro, almost nothing can slow you down. because astepro starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. and astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid free allergy spray. now without a prescription. astepro and go. covid-19. some people get it, and some people can get it bad. and for those who do get it bad, it may be because they have a high-risk factor - such as heart disease, diabetes, being overweight, asthma, or smoking. even if symptoms feel mild, these factors can increase your risk of covid-19 turning severe. so, if you're at high risk and test positive - don't wait - ask your healthcare provider right away if an authorized oral treatment is right for you. you ever wonder why people are always on their phones? they're banking, with bank of america. look at this guy. he bought those tickets on his credit card and he's rackin' up the rewards.

she's using zelle to pay him back for the hot dogs he's about to buy. and the announcer? he's not checkin' his stats, he's finding some investing ideas with merrill. and third as you know in baseball means three. digital tools so impressive, you just can't stop banking. what would you like the power to do?

♪ ♪ ♪i'm so defensive,♪ ♪i got bongos thumping in my chest♪ ♪and something tells me they don't beat me♪ ♪ ♪

♪he'd better not take the ring from me.♪ breaking news, "the wall street journal" has got a ahold of the search warrant and a list of items taken at mar-a-lago. back with me is ken dilanian and the panel. thank you for joining us on this breaking story. ken, this is based on "the wall street journal"'s reporting, but what are we learning? >> the journalists saying they seized 11 sets of classified documents in total from among 20 boxes of items that were taken. among the nonclassified items, the clemency order for roger stone and a group of documents marked the president of france. among the classified documents, the journal says the fbi seized one set that was described as

various classified top secret sensitive compartmented information. that's among the highest levels of classification there is. one grade above top secret. there were four sets of top secret documents, three sets of secret documents, and three marked confidential. the warrant describes where agents saud they would search and wouldn't search. they said they would search the 45 office, a storage room and all storage rooms and other areas within the premises used or available to be used by the former president ask his staff in which boxes or documents could be stored including all structures or buildings on the estate. the journal adds that the fbi did not seek access to search private guest rooms such as though those at mar-a-lago members. so what we're not seeing this this reporting is any reference

to nuclear-related documents or any specificity at all about what these documents might be with. which is pretty much as i had expected. the fbi is not going describe classified documents, but what we're mainly learning here is confirmation of what we knew. there were classified documents, at least according to the fbi, that they found at mar-a-lago. now the former lawyers are going to argue and have been arguing that the president has inherent authority to declassify information. all this information presumably was declassified by president trump. but nbds has been consulting a multitude of experts on this point in recent days. they have said it's not clear that it works that way. that even with the president, there are certain procedures that have to be followed. at the very least, it has to be memorialized that the president declassified something. in the absence of any record that something was declassified, the presumption is it remains classified. >> i want to bring in charles.

what does it tell us about the investigation? what does it not tell us about the investigation? >> first and foremost, it tells uses what i said earlier. the specificity around where the documents were located is laid out in the warrant. so someone had to give them some sort of insight to where to look and what they would find. so that is very clear and it's only more apparent this leak is coming from the inside. but i think on a larger level, what we have learned by reporting from "the wall street journal" is twofold. either donald trump didn't realize how important these documents are and how critical to national security and the threat that they pose having them outside of where they are supposed to be is, which is unacceptable or he just didn't care. either way, it's not appropriate. it's something that merit risk garland is taking clearly as to why he went and got thunderstorm. we did not get specifics about what the documents were because that would defeat the point of labeling them top secret.

but i do think as we're learning more about what they are getting from mar-a-lago to our earlier conversation, this likely is going to be part of something larger in terms of an investigation. >> "the wall street journal" reporting the president used his authority to declassify the material before he left office. does that sound like that? >> it's not how it works. even at the executive level, there are checks and balances in terms of items that are going to pose a threat to national security. you can't just do that. you can't say i'm going to wave my magic wand and have these things declassified. we have seen throughout this administration for dealing with classified and sensitive information far too cavalierly. this is indicative of that. now that he's no longer president, they have criminal consequences. >> the "wall street journal" reports some of this is top secret documents. some of it is secret, some confidential. what's your reaction to the reporting? is this what you expected? >> i think this just shows that

the fbi is collecting what it expected to collect. and what you referenced there is that there are different levels of secrecy and confidentiality when you talk about classified documents. there are classified documents and there are top secret documents and top secret compartmentalized documents. that means that even if you have clearance to view some documents, you can only view certain highly secret documents if you have a reason to view them. and a former president just doesn't have reason to view those documents anymore or possess them, obviously. so although the circumstances here are very unusual, searching the premises of a past president, nothing here has been particularly surprising about the way the search warrant has been obtained and executed. yes, when you go in to search for document, you search the entire premises in any location that could hauz documents.

and so i think this is playing out just exactly the way the fbi anticipated it would. >> one of the big questions, is the search warrant just ab effort to get back some documents that shouldn't be where they are and need to go back to where they belong? or does this report from the "wall street journal" say there might be more to this? there's a deeper investigation here? >> there may well be a deeper investigation as to what the intended use of the documents were. there has to be a good faith basis. the fbi has to have a good faith basis to use the search warrant. it's not used in civil cases. to believe that somebody actually has committed a crime. there is a probable cause standard that has to be met. but in this case, part of the motivation for using a search warrant was there's an increasing level of alarm among the doj and fbi that these documents are out there subject to being viewed by people who have no business viewing them, including the former president.

they needed to get them back and needed to get them back fast. and so that's part of the reason for using the search warrant mechanism after having tried subpoenas, after having tried negotiations. >> "the wall street journal" reporting that 11 sets of classified documents removed. that's around 20 boxes. what's your take away from what "the wall street journal" is reporting? >> it's funny that you should say that, because i'm not sure that i see the 11 sets and the 20 boxes being one in the same. my read of the oorl is there were 20 boxes in total taken and they include 11 sets of classified documents. and i'll to go back and read that. one of the things that's most interesting to me is that the "wall street journal" is reporting that among the democrats that the fbi took, it's ab executive clemency for roger stone. it was originally issued in july of 2020. he then pardoned roger stone in december of 2021.

those documents are public. anybody with access to the department of justice website can see them. what this makes me wonder is whether there's a different executive branch of clemency to roger stone that goes further than the crimes for which he was convicted after his

and the doj. and again they are talking about the entire presidency. and so now you have the select group of documents. it's a lot of documents. but at the same time, in comparison sort to scale of the volume of available there was a particular reason why his administration decided to move the documents that he decided to move to florida when he decided to move them. so paying more attention to that and how that plays out is likely going to give insight to the bigger picture about what this may be about. >> remind us, this has happened in an investigation like this.

what is next? what's the fbi doing to get this information? what are they going to do with it moving forward? >> going to continue to talk to their informants to make sure there's not any additional information housed anywhere else and they cover the volume of the unverse of documents that were unavailable and weren't able to get subpoena. that's the first thing. then there's going to be an independent review of what it was they were able to recover from mar-a-lago. after that it will point to the larger investigation. if this really was just a matter of getting back documents that weren't supposed to be there, we probably won't hear much more about it. if it is a part of a larger investigation, that's when we will likely see from this what was recovered, we were able to identify these things that are going to speak to whatever larger question merrick garland and the doj are looking to absentee. >> ken mentioned this. what we're seeing in "the wall street journal" report doesn't mention anything at all about nuclear program documents.

>> it doesn't. we should remember "the washington post" reported that fbi agents were seeking those documents. not that they found them. so that's an important distinction. and really all that kind of information what they were seeking and why they suspected that would be in the affidavit that unfortunately we're not seeing. but i think charles is on to the fundamental question here. which is this a case about something larger? is there something else going on here? the question of why donald trump was forwarding these documents and what he was doing? or a case of the justice department wanted their documents back. that's the question here. if it's the latter, it's possible no charges will be filed. they have the documents now. and then we'll have a debate about whether trump should have had them and could have declassified them. i was struck by something said on air earlier that president ooiz hour when he was writing his memoirs, he had go to an army facility every time he wanted to look at any classified

documents. he didn't take them home to his farm. donald trump went a different route here. >> we tonight bring in ron allen in west palm beach, florida. ron, remind us. the trump reaction, the only reason we knew about the search was because trump put it out there. how have they been responding this week. >> reporter: former president trump has been emphasizing in some of the social media posts that he's encouraging these or trying to take the offensive or trying to build a narrative that paints him as thevill tan lain and also ts hero. some of that is true. and some of that is not true. what's striking now is that the president and allies have already laid down a prebutt the rebuttal to whatever this release was going to be. we knew there would not be a lot of detail, a lot of substance about what these top secret documents are.

because of obvious reasons that they are not going to explain what they are. and into that void is what president trump and his allies appear to be raing to try to say this is going to be i guess significant. these are documents already declassified. that's debatable. that's what we have been hearing from trump world. and that's what i suspect we're going to hear more of. there was the story about these being nuclear-related documents. there's a posting on where the president calls that a hoax. he's also bye-bye very political in a lot of his comments. he talks about that an endorsment story in the primary season. 167 for candidates he's endorsed. his poll numbers are higher than ever. he's clearly trying to seize this moment to gain political advantage from the situation.

again, rallying his troops, rallying his supporters and his alies are coming out in his defense. the challenge it would seem for the justice department, are they going to do more. are they going to say more. they are restrained by what they can say, but the point is that where things are now, trump is trying to take advantage of of this moment. i think he will continue to make political gain and continually villain news the department of justice. >> ron allen, thank you. thank you all for helping us break this all down. that does it for us this hour. tune in to "chris jansing reports" weekdays at 1:00 p.m. eastern. you can catch me from 7:00 to 11:00 a.m. on our streaming network. katy tur reports after this. ty . customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. if anyone objects to this marriage... (emu squawks) kevin, no! not today.

only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i'm on a mission to talk to people about getting screened for colon cancer, and hear their reasons why. i screen for my son. i'm his biggest fan. if you're 45 or older at average risk, you have screening options, like cologuard. cologuard is noninvasive and finds 92% of colon cancers. it's not for those at high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. everyone has a reason to screen for colon cancer. if you're 45 or older, get started at missiontoscreen.com

when tired, achy feet make your whole body want to stop, it's dr. scholl's time. our insoles are designed with unique massaging gel waves, for all-day comfort and energy. find your relief in store or online.

good to be with you. i'm katy tur. you're not going to want to go anywhere for the next two hours because we have multiple big stories that we're watching that will be changing while we are on air. in fact, our first story already is. we're going to begin in florida. the south florida federal judge who issued the warrant to search mar-a-lago has given donald trump's attorneys until 3 p.m. today, one hour from now, to oppose the justice department's request to unseal two documents relad