menendez, i will see you back here tomorrow, 6 pm eastern, for more american voices. but now handed over to charles blow, who is in tonight for a man. >> hello, alicia, thank you so much. good evening and welcome ayman to. i'm charles blow, infer ayman mohyeldin. tonight, new details on the unprecedented fbi search of trump's home. what does the warrant tell us and what can we piece together. plus, trump's bad week gets worse. house committee has prevented access to the former president's tax returns. and inside the -- monkeypox, are they doing enough to stop the spread? let's get started. tonight, we begin with the details about what led the fbi to execute a search at donald trump's home this week, according to the newly unsealed search warrant, officials

believe trump was in violation of three federal statutes regarding the removal or destruction of records, obstruction of justice and the espionage act. 30s ended up removing 11 sets of classified documents, including some that were labeled secret and top secret. they were also papers described as sci or sensitive compartmented information, that's one of the highest levels of government classification. and just hours ago, the heads of the house oversight and house intelligence committees sent a letter to the director of national intelligence, requesting a national security damage assessment of the classified documents taken from trump's home. according to new reporting from the washington post, documents related to nuclear weapons were among the items fbi agents sought in the search. now they are still a lot we don't know. sources speaking to the post

declined to give detail about what types of information the agents were seeking. including whether it involved weapons belonging to the united states or to another country. and we don't know if those documents were among those retrieved this week. for this part -- for his part, donald trump has labeled the nuclear weapons issue a hoax. but here's what we do know. the justice department is handling this matter by the book, or so they say. here is attorney general merrick garland on thursday. >> the search warrant was authorized by a federal court upon the required finding of probable cause. i personally approved the decision to seek a search warrant in this matter. the department does not take such a decision lightly. we are possible in a standard practice to seek less intrusive means as an alternative to a search and to narrowly scope of any search that is undertaken. >> trump's spokesperson has

called the search, quote, not just unprecedented, but unnecessary. but let's look at the timeline. in january, a full year after trump left office, officials from the national archives removed 15 boxes of records, some of them classified, from mar-a-lago. federal prosecutors then began a grand jury investigation which resulted in trump receiving a subpoena in the spring. for more documents the fbi believes he still had in his possession. that prompted a visit from federal officials in june. following that visit, at least one lawyer for former president trump signed a written statement, asserting that all materials marked classified, and held at mar-a-lago, had been returned. that is what for people with knowledge of the document told the new york times in the reporting out today. we should note that nbc news has not seen that document, and is working to confirm that story. we have also reached out to the

former president for comment. but it appears that the statement from trump's lawyer was not true, since authorities found more classified and highly sensitive material at trump's residence this week. trump was given less intrusive opportunities to cooperate, but instead he chose to stonewall. and continue to store classified materials at his home. as for unprecedented, well, as the new york magazine's jonathan chait argued, and i will quote here, the reason don trump is the first former president to be treated like a criminal, is that he is the first former president who is a criminal, end quote. let's bring in my panel. paul butler is a former federal prosecutor and an msnbc legal analyst. david rohde is executive editor of news for the new yorker. com

and an msnbc contributor. and ryan goodman is a law professor at new york university. he is also the co-editor in chief of just security. i want to start with you, paul. i want to get your reaction to these possible violations, including the espionage act charge. >> charles, the genius of the justice department's choice of the three crimes listed in the search warrant is that none requiring documents be classified. the espionage act sounds like spying. but you are guilty if you are grossly negligent in taking or storing documents that could harm the security interests of the united states. and with trump it's always the question of whether he had criminal intent. but charles, the evidence, it looks incriminating. as you said first they asked him nicely here. he got that polite requests from the national archives. and that's when they ratcheted

up the pressure with a grand jury subpoena. and when that didn't work, that is what brought trump that fbi raid. >> ryan, a moment ago, i mentioned that there is new reporting for the new york times. and for sources told the paper that trump lawyer said all classified material had been returned. based on the property receipt, we know that that is not true. could this be part of the reasoning behind the obstruction charge? >> absolutely. so, everything he said there is true. and it does seem as though it's a false statement. so, the real question would be, was it a knowing fall false statement? did they intentionally make a false statement, therefore, lie to the justice department? if so, it means that the lawyers themselves face criminal liability. and trump himself may face criminal liability. because he is lying to the government through his lawyers. we have seen this before. the paul manafort case, for example. he was found to be guilty of lying to the justice department, through his lawyers. and his lawyers were put on the stand to say, well, who told

you that this was the case? in this instance it would be, who told you there was no longer any classified information at mar-a-lago? my client did. and it's kind of end of story, if that is what happened. >> so, david, trump was given multiple opportunities to complied before authorities searched his house. did he -- why did he choose to hold on to this classified information? this still boggles my mind. i don't understand it. what value would it be for him to hold on to this when he knew that the archives and investigators were looking to get it back? >> so, john kelly, it's a great piece in the washington post put out earlier today, said it is arrogance. that trump was dismissive of intelligence officials. he thought their presentations were sort of unimpressive. he would routinely take classified documents during the briefings and keep him for himself. and he just felt that these

documents belonged to him. that they were part of his presidency and he should be able to keep them. john bolton, another former aide, a former national security adviser, said the same thing. that trump's -- and i'm just quoting now. but it fits a pattern here of basically, trump's arrogance. and a real dismissal of government process, and a real suspicion of career public officials, in government. >> paul, let's go back to garland. before the warrant was released, you wrote a piece in the washington post, where you question the doj's choice to go after trump on this issue. you wrote, quote, the first prosecution of a former u.s. president needs to be worthy of the historic weight. after seeing what the warrant says, do you still believe what he wrote then? >> i sure do, charles. with trump now, it's kind of like federal and state prosecutors. take a number, wait your turn.

but we will see what other evidence comes out regarding how trump misty used these classified documents. but based on what we know now, i think january 6th is the rights choice for a historic first indictment of a u.s. president. we don't have to speculate about that damage. we know that human lives were lost. we know that the cost to our democracy is ongoing. and finally, charles, the january 6th house panel has provided doj with a roadmap for how to bring trump to justice for his worst offenses. >> ryan, you told axios in a piece out, just this morning, that you believe trump is, quote, in very serious trouble, and that if the justice department wanted to pursue a criminal case, based on the available information known to the public to date, they appear to have a very strong case. do you disagree with paul? >> so, i don't disagree with

paul in the sense that i do you think that the more grave offense is the attempt by trump to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power. i mean, what a complete threat to our democracy. but i do think, if you are looking for second order criminal offense, espionage, under the espionage act, i think, would be fitting. that if you are going to prosecute a former president, and the espionage act would be something of such a serious and grave matter then it would be befitting, for the justice department to move forward. and the wording of the espionage act fits the known facts, like a hand in glove. it is really remarkable. because the espionage act includes when a person retains this kind of high-level secretive information, even when they are given a demand to return it by the government, and they still hold on to it. that is what the espionage says. so, that's why i think it's actually a very strong case, if the justice department wants to move forward, based on the publicly known facts. >> david, let's shift a little

bit from the purely legal to part of the political here. in a piece out yesterday here you wrote, quote, trump's base, of course, will believe that the justice department and the fbi are falsely accusing him. but for everyone else, a sense of exhaustion that trump's antics feels inevitable. tell us about how you think all this will play out, particularly in the political arena. >> i do think that this is doing political damage to donald trump. i think moderate republicans independents republicans in the suburbs, they have a fatigue of trump. and i think it hurts their view of him. and what i notice and wrote about is -- and i have heard this from former trump administration officials, is that donald trump's actions, after he lost the election in november 2020, by millions of votes, grew increasingly reckless and unhinged. and this search at mar-a-lago is the latest example that the

january 6th committee has done an amazing job of cataloging his behavior, after the election, and how outrageous it was. and former aides told me that he would sort of listen to his lawyers. he wouldn't cross legal red lines, again, before he loses the election. and so all of this, the january 6th work -- the search of mar-a-lago, shows how reckless and he'd-less he has become. and how he has -- just, i think, a danger. and i hope that voters will see that. >> paul, it's great that authorities now have possession of all these documents, right? hands down, period. but trump had them for a year and a half. how are we sure that the document, the physical document, is the only manifestation of the document are we sure that they didn't take photographs of it? how are we sure they didn't copy it? how are we sure that they didn't distributed? >> well, we are not sure at all.

and that is why the huge question is, why in the world was trump hoarding these materials? what has he already done? and what was he planning to do? and trump's defense now of blaming the lawyers, well, i guess that's better than the early defenses he was rehearsing, which is that the fbi planted the stuff, or that trump declassify the material, but he didn't tell anybody. but remember, this obstruction of justice? or obstruction of an investigation? that means that the fbi had probable cause to think that somebody at mar-a-lago holds a significant risk of destroying evidence in the next few days. i wonder who that could be. >> panel, please stick around. our coverage of the fbi search and it's fallout continues right after this. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'd like to thank our sponsor liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance,

so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. this is the gillettelabs with exfoliating bar. the bar in the handle removes unseen dirt and debris ahead of the blades, for effortless shaving in one efficient stroke. for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure.

rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. (dad) we have to tell everyone that we just if switched to verizon's new keep loving who you are. welcome unlimited plan, for just $30. (daughter) i've already told everyone! (cool guy) $30...that's awesome. (mom) it's their best unlimited price ever. (woman) for $30 a line, i'm switching now. (vo) the network you want. the price you love. only from verizon. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks.

uhh... here, i'll take that! yay!!! ensure max protein, with 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar enter powered by protein challenge for a chance to win big! >> it comes as no surprise that alright, limu, give me a socket wrench, pliers, and a phone open to libertymutual.com they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need... and a blowtorch. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

trump's response to the fbi search has been confusing at best. at first, he suggested that he was being framed by the fbi, right, quote, planting information anyone? then, as the news cycle worsened, he claimed president obama did the same thing, apparently, keeping millions of pages of documents without persecution. that was until the national archives released a statement refuting trump, saying it, quote, assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of obama presidential records, unquote, when obama left office. so, now, trump and his allies are claiming that the documents held at mar-a-lago were somehow magically classified by an order that no one has seen, and that trump never mentioned until this week. what's next? back with me, paul butler, david rohde, and ryan goodman. david, your reaction to this

ever-changing, never ending series of defenses that trump and his allies are offering? >> it is very trumpian, sorry. it's this constant sort of dissembling and denial and confusion. and i think part of the goal here, in the past, i think trump has, you know, succeeded in just muddying the water is enough, and clearly, as we talked about earlier, his base is gonna believe this. again, i think, some of these are, you know, republicans i've talked to, this fatigue, this tiresome sense that he's focused on himself, and he still can't believe he lost the race. and these frantic efforts to come up with excuses. and i think, again, fatigue with this kind of chaos and the lies of donald trump. >> paul regardless of whether these documents were declassified, why would trump need these documents in the first place? and why wouldn't he just give them back, once he was asked

the first time by the national archives? >> that's the question that merrick garland is going over now with the fbi, for all of its problems, it remains the world's best law enforcement agency. but there is absolutely no reason. keep in mind, charles, this was not his property. you know, this property belonged to the government of the united states. when i was a federal prosecutor, and i had to deal with classified information, it was almost a joke how obvious they make it. it's literally stamped in huge letters on every page. so, this isn't the kind of thing that you make a mistake about, and with trump, you wonder, was there some kind of national security concern? or might he have used this evidence to try to curry favor or bribes someone?

and with the former president, all of those are sadly plausible. >> ryan, the chairs of the house oversight and intelligence committees have sent a letter to the dni today requesting a damage assessment of the classified documents, legally. how could this kind of assessment impact what happens to the former president? >> so, i think it could move, mobilize the justice department to move forward, if in fact this assessment comes out with what we imagine it would, which is that this could be highly damaging to the u.s. government, to have this information in -- hands. but the optics would be, that it raises the stakes enormously about what is at issue here, and the public would understand better the legitimacy of the justice department. pursuing it. but the interesting thing, it fits squarely with the espionage act. because the espionage act just requires an assessment that the information could damage the national security of the united

states, or advantage another foreign country. but we're talking about top secret, and even higher than top secret information that was classified. and the standard for top secret is that it must pose an exceptionally grave risk to u. s. national security, so that's what it sounds like he had, in a very unsecured environment in mar-a-lago. and i think the damage assessment is a very smart way to go about having the experts analyze what exactly are the implications for what's happening here. >> paul, i want to turn now to the other big trump news this week. trump pleaded the fifth more than 440 times during the deposition this week with new york attorney generals office. and it's part of their investigation into the trump organization's business dealings. legally, though, what does this mean for the investigation that the former president didn't answer any of those questions? >> so, first, any good defense attorney would have advised

trump to take the fifth because the manhattan district attorney is conducting a parallel investigation of the trump organization. and the da said he is closely watching what the new york attorney general finds. it's quite common when politicians are under criminal investigation. the defense attorney says, you gotta take the fifth. but the political advisers say, man, you can't do that. and here, trump, i think, appropriately, went with his defense team. but in the civil investigation, like the new york attorney general is conducting, the fact that he took the fifth can be used by the jury to infer that he's guilty. that has the answers, are reliable, that this answer would incriminate him. so i think this will face a settlement, in part, charles, because donald trump does not want to go in front of a new york jury. >> david, i want to get your opinion on this as well. what does it look like to you

that the president refused to answer any of those questions in the new york probe? is this his right, it's a constitutionally guaranteed right, he's allowed to do this. but what do you think the consequences of this are? >> i think it's gonna hurt this his political messaging. his whole thing, he said he is a fighter, he doesn't back down. there's reports that he loved giving depositions in the past. it was interesting, he did well early in the, week because he was coming off the fbi raid. and he was spreading his sort of deep state conspiracy theories. the fbi is out to get me, the the new york attorney general is out to get me, the january six committee is out to get me. and and now, we've got an investigation in georgia as well. and i think taking the fifth in all of these investigations, again, just damages him. because it is, again, either you believe all these people our line, or donald trump is lying. and slowly, slowly support for him as eroding. >> all right, david rohde, paul butler, and ryan goodman, thank

you all so much for joining me tonight. up next, a house committee is getting access to trump's tax returns. ♪ ♪ ♪ liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. (brad) over the years, we've helped millions of renters only pay for what you need. find their perfect place. like andrea, whose new apartment finally has a dishwasher. (brad vo) ow! oh! ow! (andrea) hello...? (brad vo) uh-oh! what? this isn't right! what is that? a fork? hot, hot, hot! ooo! mayday! mayday! hey, get me out of here. seems like andrea got a dishwasher that's fully functioning. apartments-dot-com. the place to find a place. ♪ ♪

this is the moment. for a treatment for moderate-to-severe eczema. cibinqo — fda approved. 100% steroid free. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments. and cibinqo helps provide clearer skin and less itch. cibinqo can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. do not take with medicines that prevent blood clots. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma, lung, skin and other cancers, serious heart-related events, and blood clots can happen. people 50 and older with heart disease risk factors have an increased risk of serious heart-related events or death with jak inhibitors. this is the moment. but we've only just begun. speak with your doctor about cibinqo today. an innovation from pfizer. this is the gillettelabs with exfoliating bar.

the bar in the handle removes unseen dirt and debris ahead of the blades, for effortless shaving in one efficient stroke. shingles. the rash can feel like an intense burning sensation and last for weeks. it can make your workday feel impossible. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. 50 years or older? ask your doctor about shingles. when hurting feet make you want to stop, it's dr. scholl's time. our custom fit orthotics use foot mapping technology to give you personalized support, for all-day pain relief. find your relief in store or online. ♪ ♪ find your relief elon musk says tesla's full self-driving software is “amazing”, it will “blow your mind.” but does it work? this happens over and over again. 100,000 tesla drivers are already using full self-driving on public roads. i'm dan o'dowd. i'm a safety engineer

and tesla full self-driving is the worst commercial software i've ever seen. tell congress to shut it down. paid for by the dawn project. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire only two things are forever: love and liberty mutual customizing your car insurance,

so you only pay for what you need. if anyone objects to this marriage... (emu squawks) kevin, no! not today. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> trump spent years refusing to release his tax returns to the public. but house democrats may might finally have access. this week, a federal appeals panel unanimously ruled that the house ways and means committee has the authority to obtain trump's tax returns from the treasury department. committee chairman richard neil said in response, with great patience, we follow the judicial process, and yet again, our position has been confirmed by the courts. joining me now, susanne craig, an investigative reporter for the new york times, who has covered trump's business and tax issued for years. susanne, first off, are you

surprised that after years the committee actually won their case? >> i have to say, patience, that took a long time. and i just think, this story didn't get a lot of attention this week. but it's really important. because it goes back to the 2015, 2016, when donald trump said he was going to release his taxes. it goes to why that is so important. it is because we need to understand the politicians and the presidents finances, the people running this country. what did their finances involved and whatever the pressure points? and who may be able to influence them? and this is where it all started. he said he wasn't going to -- he was going to release his taxes and then he never did. and what this leads to, which is just so important for public policy, is, they are going to look at changes that should be made -- there going to look at his tax and his tax information. but public policy changes that

could be made to improve the system and improve disclosure. and i just thought it was such an important issue. and it is just so long running. it started back in 2015. it went through the trump administration, got dropped, and is now alive again. >> so, trump is very likely to appeal this, likely to the supreme court itself. how much longer could these this legal drama drag out before the committee actually gets to see these documents? >> the supreme court docket does take a while. it could be next year or the year after. and i don't so much think the urgency of this one, it started. and now, i think, are different. now he is no longer an office and the new york times -- i'm one of the reporters that was involved. we obtained 20 years of his personal and corporate tax returns. they have also -- the supreme court has turned them over to investigators. but that information, a lot of it has leaked out. but i think the public party policy part of this is what is important. and if it takes another year or

two to play out, i think that's okay. but i think it will happen now. at least it will go to the supreme court to get a hearing. >> i hear you on this issue of public policy and making sure that they adjust the rules around disclosure. but if you are advising the committee, is that what you would be looking for? or will the committee also look for criminal possibilities? there is a lot that we don't know, in the tax returns, about legal exposure. and also issues of who loaned money, who he might owe money to, whether those are just banks or government actors. and so is just the policy issue the only thing you would advising them to look for? or would they also look for criminality? [inaudible] >> no, and i think we do know a lot of the things that you just mentioned. i think we have seen -- we have got the returns, and a lot of that information has been out there. there may be stuff that is not on his returns that people still want to find out. but what has actually been

filed to the irs, which is usually your best case forward, that stuff is now out there. we know who his lenders are. we may now still have issues with, should he still be -- making public, been involved in decisions, around financial institutions, or other entities giving him money? but i think what is now going to play out with the ways and means is more of a policy role and improving public policy. >> all right, let's pivot a little bit. this week, a manhattan judge has denied a request to dismiss the manhattan case against the trump organization, and cfo allen weisselberg. where do you see this going from here? >> it is marching towards a trial. and that trial could happen. jury selection is going to start in the third or fourth week of july right now, and unless that gets moved. and then we head to a trial where the trump organization and the cfo of the trump organization are going to trial for issues involving tax

evasion. it is going to be a new york jury. and if it does not go his way, it could be very serious. there could be covenants and loans he has that may default, if it judgment goes against him. and the cfo, who has worked at the trump organization for decades, is facing very serious penalties, including potential jail time. it is going to be a very eventful fall on that front. >> separate from this, the new york attorney generals office is investigating the trump organization. this week, trump invoked the fifth amendment at least 440 times in his deposition. talk us through where you see that case heading. was his testimony or his testimony deposition the last peg before charges filed? or how is this going to work out? >> i am a reporter, really bad at making predictions. i think you are better at it, from where you sit, at the new

york times, with opinion. but i would just go back to this. i go back to his other entanglements that he has had with the new york attorney general. this is a civil case. and he has had two other cases. donald trump often says he doesn't settle. and he does. he has done it twice with the new york attorney general. i think that was part of the calculation this week. i think he was concerned if he gave a deposition that it could be used against him. and that federal case we just talked about, and also potentially reigniting an inquiry that was going on into trump themself, criminally. but i think also, he is just saying, i've got a lot on the go right now. this case could potentially settle. and i will take the fifth. optically, it looks really horrible, politically. >> susanne craig, my colleague at the new york times, thank you so much. after the break, the consequences of republican abortion bans may be more wide ranging then you imagine. people remember ads with young people having a good time.

so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a pool party. ♪ good times. insurance! ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

make your home totally you. i did with wayfair. sometimes i'm a homebody. can never have too many pillows. sometimes i'm all business. wooo! i'm a momma 24/7. seriously with the marker? i'm a bit of a foodie. perfect. but not much of a chef. yes! ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need. ♪ i'd like to thank our sponsor liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. since the fall of roe, we have

discussed the devastating and life-threatening consequences lack of abortion access has had on millions of americans. but as post roe america takes shape, it is becoming clear these restrictions don't just impact those seeking abortion care. take 46-year-old becky hubbard, who suffers from debilitating rheumatoid arthritis. after her home state of tennessee imposed new abortion

restrictions, she received an ultimatum from her doctor. if she wanted to stay on her treatment plan, a drug called methotrexate, she had to stay go on birth control, despite her age in history of infertility. you see, some medicines that treat conditions, from arthritis to cancer, can also end a pregnancy or cause birth defects. now, doctors and pharmacists in more than a dozen states with tight abortion restrictions are suddenly being forced to navigate a medical and ethical minefield, deciding whether and when to order certain drugs because they could be held criminally liable for prescribing them to pregnant women. as becky hubbard put it, quote, it is frustrating as hell. let's discuss with the dr. colleen mcnicholas, chief medical officer at planned parenthood for the st. louis

region and southwest missouri. last month, she testified before the senate judiciary committee regarding the consequences of the supreme court decision. dr. colleen mcnicholas, do you think these consequences are in fact intended or our they just unintended consequences that are collateral to the decisions we are being made? >> the truth is, that for those of us who have been working in states that are incredibly restrictive, already, pre decision, we have been screaming about this potential for years now. we knew that banning abortion wouldn't just mean that people would no longer be able to get abortion access in their state. we knew that it meant that miscarriage management, as you noted, treatment for rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, cancer -- all these things could be predicted. and the real truth is, though it may take years to fully realize what the impact is, this country is already abysmal

maternity little mortality rate will certainly worsen. and of course, the most impact in that realm is going to be felt by black and brown women, and those who are already suffering the most. >> for the other ripple effects we are, seeing with many doctors in these antiabortion states that are reluctant to work there, and they are having a hard time recruiting new doctors to take those positions in those states. how could that also endanger women? >> this is going to have a massive effect across the workforce, from training institutions to the end product, where we have fully practicing. physicians. although ob/gyn,'s -- family medicine physicians that i know, have gotten into medicine to be healers. and it is not only frustrating, by that is also, as you said, an ethical minefield to now be faced with the situation in which you know with the best treatment is. you know how to help somebody. you know what could save their

life. but you are weighing the potential possibility of facing criminal charges by an overzealous attorney general. that is just not white people went into medicine. so, i certainly am not surprised that folks are choosing to leave states where that is a reality. >> the new york times is reporting that some women are now seeking out medication online without supervision of a clinic or a doctor. now, before roe, we had a back alley abortions. is this now just a modern day version of the back alley abortion? >> look, medication abortion can be self-managed safely, so as long as you have the correct medication, and you how to do it, what the warning signs are, and went to seek help. so, folks can certainly manage their abortion in the safety and comfort of their home, if those criteria are met, they have the right medication. they know how to use it, and they know when to seek care. >> we know one impact from this

story, a ten year old girl who had to travel out of state for on abortion after she was raped. you work with the abortion provider in that case. what toll does that have on women and girls? >> look, that story certainly was tragic. but the reality is that every abortion delayed or denied is also tragic, and we are seeing it across the board. i mean, in my own clinic in southern illinois, we are scheduling sometimes 60 to 75 patients a day. and our staff are working 10 to 12 hours a day. you know, the real tragedy i think, that case, that very young women want to travel out of state, is how the republican attorney general really went after this competent, compassionate doctor, who followed the law, and provided necessary health care to this

young woman. and i think for those of us who are practicing in states like indiana, my own state of missouri, we expect those sort of targeted attacks. and like i said, that's not why people went into medicine. that's not why physicians become healers. so, you know, we are on the lookout for that. lookout for that >> doctor colleen mcnicholas, for some people, you are doing god's work, maybe that's apropos. that's why you have a halo at the back of your head. so thank you so much for doing this. ahead, the federal government's response to the growing monkeypox crisis. monkeypox crisis

when tired, achy feet make your whole body want to stop, it's dr. scholl's time. our insoles are designed with unique massaging gel waves, for all-day comfort and energy. find your relief in store or online. this is a charged lemonade from panera, and it's a force of nature. a delicious boost of plant based caffeine from guarana and green coffee extract. enjoy these and more when you join panera's unlimited sip club.

for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache.

if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. (dad) we have to tell everyone that we just if switched to verizon's new keep loving who you are. welcome unlimited plan, for just $30. (daughter) i've already told everyone! (cool guy) $30...that's awesome. (mom) it's their best unlimited price ever. (woman) for $30 a line, i'm switching now. (vo) the network you want. the price you love. only from verizon. >> more than two years after

the start of the covid-19 pandemic, you would be forgiven for thinking that the united states might have learned some

lessons about handling public health emergencies. monkeypox is proving that that is not the case. facing a massive vaccine shortage, the fda announced this week an emergency use authorization that allows health care providers to administer a fraction of a dose of the monkeypox shot. this will increase the number of doses available by up to five fold. but critics say, this strategy means that thousands of people, disproportionately queer men of color, will receive what's in effect a watered down weaker inoculation. earlier this month, it was reported that the department of health and human services bungled, getting monkeypox vaccines getting into arms earlier, because it failed to ask for bulk stocks that the vaccine it already owned the bottled version for distribution. joining me now to discuss is joseph osmundson, a micro biologist, queer activist, and the author of virology essays

from the living and the death and the small things in between. joseph, can you start by laying out the timeline of the monkeypox outbreak here in the united states? and did the public health officials know this would be a problem, and when did the bungling begin? >> the bungling began at the first few cases that we found. you know, it is first principle in epidemiology, that if you are collecting cases for a disease that are not epidemiologically linked to one another, you are not collecting all of the cases that are out there. and so, there was this notion in the federal government that we don't really need to get testing up, and we are not seeing that many cases. but what activists were saying, these cases aren't linked to one another. we have no concept of the scale of this outbreak. and therefore, we need to scale vaccines and tests immediately. and there was at least a six -week delay on testing. and vaccines didn't move for a

month after that, even as new york city celebrated pride that june. vaccines or not ordered until the weekend of pride to be shipped from denmark. >> what do you make of this new fda emergency use authorization, encouraging doctors to roll out the vaccine in much smaller doses? >> yeah, so this is based on some science, although it is limited. i just want to say that this is a manufactured scarcity. we could fill and finish 15 million additional doses, if we invested the money with urgency. this does not do -- this crisis could have also been solved if we had moved the million doses we had, it's likely would have been able to stop the spread in this country. now, the situation is, we do have a scarcity, and essentially, if you haven't gotten a shot by now, and you do things as sort of expected, you are unlikely to get a shot. so, the federal government has said, we will use a different

approach. we will inject just under the epidermis of the skin, where there are more immune cells, so you will need a smaller dose. that is based on some science, but the reality is, north carolina has published their vaccine data by demographics, 70% of the cases in north carolina had been in black people. and 67% of the vaccines have gone to white people. and now, you're in the situation that the remainder of people, largely black and brown, as you mentioned, we'll just be getting less. and an additional variable that hasn't been fully studied. >> let's talk about that. do you think we're gonna be seeing a similar public health response right now, if monkeypox was either predominantly just spreading among white people who were queer, or it was just spreading among heterosexual people? >> look, it's so hard to say what is homophobia, and what

has been ineptitude. but i do have to say that if this were affecting a different demographic of person, there would have been urgency in may. i just do not believe that that is not the case. we would not have said we are not, obviously, we're not testing enough, it's fine to not move the vaccine. it is both that it's affecting queer people, and it seems to be spreading largely by sex. the whole motivation and the urgency of almost every level of government as not treated us worthy of care. and that, of course, is doubly true for trans folks, and for people of color within the queer community. >> do you think that health and human services secretary xavier becerra should resign? it is reported by politico, eight current and former administration officials say that he had the ability to steer the administration through monkeypox? >> we have been so disappointed in secretary becerra. i sat on a call with him, telling him to his face would

my friend who was going through monkeypox was feeling. he had prop titus and could not pass a ball movement and could not sleep at night. and people in hhs were telling us that this was a mild infection, and there was just this disconnect, almost seems like he wasn't listening, maybe on his phone. you know, and then, to hear him say, you know, we didn't move the doses. we didn't get testing scaled up. but you know, last month, he did a press conference where he said, oh, the federal government did all we could. now, it is on cities and states. you can't gaslight an infectious disease. and the secretary level at the age age as, really the only person, they are the pen holder. they are the person who the buck stops with them, the decision stops with them. yes, there's been problem within cdc and fda and barbara, but it is becerra's job to solve those problems in his failed to do so. >> joseph osmundson, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

up next, the rights hypocrisy when it comes to trump and the justice department. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ meta portal go. look professional. ♪♪ even if you don't feel it. meta portal. the smart video calling device... - right on time! - of course. that makes work from home work for you. so, shall we get started? kids, one year they want all dinosaurs stuff the next, camels. - llamas. - llamas. so save money shopping back to school on amazon. you sure that's not a camel? yeah. whatever you say. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ allergies don't have to be scary. (screaming) defeat allergy headaches fast with new flonase headache and allergy relief!

two pills relieve allergy headache pain? and the congestion that causes it! flonase headache and allergy relief. psst! psst! all good! ♪ you ain't seen nothin' yet ♪ ♪ b-b-baby, you just ain't seen n-n-nothin' yet ♪ ♪ here's something, ♪ ♪ here's something you're never gonna fff-forget, baby ♪ get a dozen shrimp for only one dollar with any steak entrée. only at applebee's. your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire i think i changed my mind about these glasses. mayeah, it happens. that'sion. why visionworks gives you 100 days to change your mind. it's simple. anything else i can help you with? like what? visionworks. see the difference. oh, that i can't believe i scored this price feeling! well believe it baby!

because wayfair always delivers. the look you want at the prices you want. so you can have the home you want! see we told you. wayfair always delivers small prices for big dreams. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ (dad) we have to tell everyone that we just switched to verizon's new welcome unlimited plan, for just $30. (daughter) i've already told everyone! (cool guy) $30...that's awesome. (mom) it's their best unlimited price ever. (woman) for $30 a line, i'm switching now. (vo) the network you want. the price you love. only from verizon. millions have made the switch from the big three to xfinity mobile. that means millions are saving hundreds a year on their wireless bill. and all of those millions are on the nation's most reliable 5g network and most recommended wireless carrier. that's a whole lot of happy campers out there. and it's never too late to join them. get $450 off any new purchase of an eligible samsung device

with xfinity mobile. one common thing trump and his or add a line to your plan today at xfinitymobile.com allies have used to attack fbi search this week is to accuse president biden and attorney general garland of politicizing the justice department. of course, there is no evidence of that. and, as is often the case with the gop and trump, republicans

were more or less silent when trump was doing what he is now accusing biden of doing. >> i have said, i am going to stay away from the justice department until it's completed. that doesn't mean i have to. because i don't have to. i can get involved. i'm allowed to be totally involved. i'm actually, i guess, the chief law enforcement officer of the country. >> i said i will stay out of it. i wish i didn't make that statement. there is no reason, really, why i have to. what's happened to durham where is durham? bill barr can go down as the greatest attorney general in the history of our country. or he can go down as just an average guy. it depends on what is going to happen. so, christopher wray was put there. we have an election coming up. i wish she was more forthcoming. he certainly has not been. >> the attorney general said, i'm going to recuse my self. why the hell didn't he call me that before i put him in? 33,000 emails! we now have a great attorney general, let's see what