very good day to all of you

from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome to alex witt reports. we begin with breaking news. the biden ministration is releasing a newly declassified intelligence assessment, saying al-qaeda has not returned to afghanistan after the u.s. withdrawal it is no longer able to launch an attack from there. the late saturday statement comes two weeks after president biden announced a drone strike in kabul, killing al-qaeda's leader. tomorrow marks one year since the u.s. began its chaotic withdrawal of military forces, allowing the taliban to regain control and another breaking

story that we are following for you. the bipartisan congressional delegation planning to stop in taiwan as part of a trip to asia this weekend. senate relations chair ed markey is leading the delegation, which includes one republican and several democrat lawmakers. donald trump fires off new claims about what was seized in mar-a-lago, a debate over the fbi search rages on. >> we have been talking about, for months, who led the department of justice to their warrant. we have incredible mental roman, professionals, not political, who work every day in the justice department to do their job and protect the american people and to do the right thing, to do the justice in a non political way. that is what we've seen. >> all i know but the actual material is what was in that search warrant inventory, but from that alone you can tell it was a serious risk to disclosure, potentially of sources and methods. >> these are materials that are two years old. we don't know what they are, whether they rise to the level

of being a national security threat. the fact that you have here at the attorney general, who is going after the president biden's political rival who his own political career was derailed by donald trump himself. >> joining us now is gary's gone back as well as washington post investigative reporter and former fbi intelligence counter agent peter -- and adviser to former mike pence, olivia troye. thank you all for joining us here. we're getting a bulletin from the fbi and dhs. were they saying? >> it's going to newsroom in the past few minutes, alex. the are posting an unclassified intelligence bulletin describing a threat and spike in threats from front to federal law enforcement. i will read you a quote. the fbi and dhs have observed an increase in threats to federal law enforcement and to a lesser extent of the law enforcement and government officials following the fbi's priest next fusion of a search warrant in palm beach, florida.

it goes on to discuss the issues surrounding domestic violent extremists and reminds law enforcement agency across the country not to profile, but look for past behaviors, and look for and reports any suspicious activity. there's a lot to think about on both the former president trump side and the doj sides to learn from the affidavit. the affidavit is something that republicans, especially on sunday shows this morning, have really wanted to get. of course, that's not something they can. get the judge has it, the doj has, it it's unsealed warrants right now. and the court system. the democrats, for their part, the shares of the intel and oversight committees have asked the director of national intelligence for a damage assessment on the classified information that is there at mar-a-lago, just to see what's the impact is to our national security level. folks on both sides of the aisle were on sunday shows this morning opining on the topic. take a listen. >> i think it is very important,

long term, for the justice department now that they have done this, that they show that this was not just a fishing expedition. if they can't do that then we have a serious problem on our hands. >> you can tell there is a serious risk to disclosure, potentially of sources and methods because some of the documents where mark's top secret, sensitive, compartmented information. the fact that they were but on garden places with nothing more than a pile block or what they would have at a hotel, that's deeply alarming. now -- >> former president trump is claiming this morning on truth social, his social media site, that there is executive client privilege and attorney client privilege on the document taken from mar-a-lago by the fbi. he is, quote, respectfully requesting that they get them back to mar-a-lago. i'm not sure how true a true social post will hold up in a court of law, alex, but i think we might be about to find out. >> i guess we. will okay, thank you very much

carry about g.a.r. box for that. joining me now jackie alameda, peter strzok, and olivia troye. welcome all. i will start with you, jacqui, here. you heard gary talking about this top lawmakers are seeking to damage assessment as we have all heard through the last couple of days or so. they want this highly classified information found that trump's club to be analyzed in assessed. is anyone telling me that they think something happened with the documents to put national security in grave risk? >> yeah, alex. that is not what we are hearing just yet. that is one of the concerns and i think that is the question everybody is asking. what exactly happened that aggravated the situation and caused the fbi to execute a search warrant that made this rise to the level of urgency that these actions most likely required in order to be taken. as we go on your show have

already noted, merrick garland is extremely cautious and would not take a decision like this lightly. this is something that has been simmering for nearly a year now. since the former president really left his office, the national archives has been on him in order to get documents and presidential records back that they quickly realized, again, soon after joe biden's inauguration were missing. that back and forth continued last spring into the fall and eventually by the end of the year but representatives from former president trump's team agreed to give back 15 boxes from mar-a-lago. those arrived at a facility, a secure facility, that belonged to the archives in january. from there, after was discovered that classified information was part of this hall, he was passed off to the department of justice and the fbi. so, this, again as a source told us this is like hot water

that is now reaching the boiling point. he was not a decision taking lightly. >> for sure. how incumbent, peter, would it be for the fbi to that immediately inform congress, the president, all intelligence arms, if they knew some kind of national security alarm that was caused by the trove in mar-a-lago or the presence of documents not location. does that make it so? >> well i think two issues are here, one is that you have an ongoing criminal investigation as the attorney general pointed out of the news conference. everybody's entitled to presumption of innocence. typically the fbi don't go out and describe the things that they put into an affidavit. or simply covered enough search warrant. on the other hand there are real intelligent equities letter implicated here. i'm sure that within the knowledge community the stockings have been reviewed by many agencies to determine whether any ongoing intelligence collection -- sort of existing sources might

be a risk. it is a little bit different from informing congress in terms of an oversight responsibility. certainly they have that and have in the past the, fbi have pushed back against providing information that is coming out of an ongoing criminal investigation. it would be interesting to me to see whether or not the doj and -- the request for briefing. i don't think they will. that is an opportunity for the buckeye need to move forward and provide some general information. they make up to provide that for the committees, i don't hold my breath and i don't think we should be expecting these briefings to occur anytime soon. >> so here is possibly another example for you, olivia. the hidden from the article that jackie coauthored. here's a line. the the -- of clearing the security was made clear in 2019 when chinese national carrying phones and other devices was arrested after getting past a reception area by saying she was heading

to the pool. you take that into account and then in light of what we now know it ceased in that search, what goes through your mind? >> well, that property is prime for foreign intelligence adversaries to target. thinking that these documents were just being held back there, no matter what time has passed i have heard commentary from republicans and others that have said well, two years old, two -- it doesn't matter. to explain to people really what this means, intelligence operations and many moments take a long time to develop. it doesn't matter that in 15 years or sources that could be exposed there that would fall on the wrong hand. it really disrupted many of these -- and could also hurt our foreign partners that could sometimes share intelligence with us. for their foreign leaders out there equally's concern right now who are wondering what type of information is in those documents and what kind of harm can come to their own

assistance and methods and the intelligence offers on the ground. >> we get a little bit more from your article, jacqui, so we -- there were two days of crazy talk in trump world about who was the mole who is the informant one adviser said. fingers were pointed all sorts of people. are we any closer today to answer that? the who and might have been someone within his family? >> yeah, alex, i -- you know, trump is well known for constantly trying to find out the source of leaks. one thing that has been consistent over the presidency is and it has been one of the luckiest presidencies in modern history. that has continued in his post presidency life. the it is possible that there was a source or informant and president trump, former president trump's orbit that was providing information to the fbi but the doesn't

assembly make him a mole. we know that the fbi was interviewing members and staff who worked for the former president and who around the premise this as a part of their ongoing investigation. the former president himself stopped by one of those meetings that happened with the head of the justice department's counter intelligence unit -- and there was a lot of back and forth between trump's legal representatives and investigators who were trying to get to the bottom of the classified documents. as the new york times reporting shows, ultimately investigators were able to discern that that representative from trump's legal team was -- lying to them about whether or not all that information had ultimately be been returned to the u.s. government. so, there are a variety of sources that have given this

information up and -- could've given this information up. it doesn't necessarily make them an informant or mole as far as the president. >> that said, there is another quote from jack's article this goes to you, peter, it raises this. as the big project progressed, trump grew angrier times screaming profanities on advisers about the fbi and how they were out to get him. people who were in contact with him, says. what is your reaction to trump's constant railing against intelligence agencies? >> well it's nothing new. it's completely the -- made it habit of attacking the fbi, attacking the intelligence community. right next to vladimir putin says that he trusted russia's intelligence agency activists hone. it doesn't surprise me, at all, but it falls into the pattern. there was some reporting that a representative reached out, they reached out to attorney general garland and try to say the country is on fire. we can do to help. the first thing you can do is

say you are cooperating and to tell everybody to calm down, he's obviously not going to do it. get caught, fredricka bargain, realizing of a deal in the bargain. trying to rage, attack the fbi. anybody who's looking at him. again, it's what he would do. what's concerning is we have this hyper aggression coming out of members of congress. he senators, outspoken media members of the far-right ring encouraging violent violence and that's on the i think is new. we are seeing it impact things like the shooter on the ground in the field office in cincinnati. we see with this huge uptick to launch for spent. eunice earlier you had the joint dhs -- talking with targeting. let's attack director assault of inflammatory language is coming from trump and pent-up with all the anguish in congress, the media, that simply asked a stop. we are headed down a really

changes pathway now. >> we are getting that warning left and right, i will tell you. i mean politically speaking we are getting that warning from all over. olivia, as we look at the timeline of how all this unfolded the new york times reports that in june a trump lawyer said they turned over all classified information. a witness reportedly comes forward to suggest, yeah, that's not true. how much time did choice did the fbi assist department have? >> i think when you have classified information that could still be out there you have to act. it's in that matter of national security. it doesn't matter what the documents say are state, really, the bottom line is classified documents and sensitive information has a home. classified facilities, bottom line. the home is not in mar-a-lago, florida, where it is outside of the purview of where these documents should be stored. there's a lot of narratives out there and maybe these documents were declassified before, we if

there is the authority to do that before he left office. if they were declassified there would be a long trail and process that led to the declassification of those documents. someone mentioned he might have thought that they were declassified. maybe he didn't utter that phrase. is that a defense? how much water does that carry? if he says yeah but i thought that they were. in my mind that they were. >> it doesn't work that way. there's a lot of conversations that donald trump has in his mind all the time. it was a lot of conversations he has out in the open, to be, honestly you should be having. those in national security have witnessed him doing that. there were documents out on his desk that should not have been sitting there out in the open. i remember walking into the oval office one day and seeing them and thinking to myself, not everyone is cleared to the level that those documents are at and i'm not sure they should be just sitting there out in the open. at least put them in the right fold, or put them whether they are not just -- i remember that moment and i'm

sure that john fulton has also, who's been out there talking about the concerns that he saw. they would reiterate that he has instances like that where he saw the behavior of the former president when it came to this type of information. >> the carelessness is just breathtaking at the very least. peter, you talk about this earlier, it's worth another look. in an op-ed for the new york times, maureen downed writes that is the most bizarre loop-the-loop's in donald trump's dark crazy reign of republicans that he turned a party that was pro law and order and anti-evil empire into a party that trashes the fbi and embraces vladimir putin. then you have breitbart revealing the fbi agents name on that released warrant. you've talked about how alarming this is, and i backed you up by saying that we are seeing it left and right. but really how deeply worried are you that we are in trouble in terms of security as a result of this kind of thing? >> alex, i'm really worried.

this is a long time coming. trump has said that he's trying to do this since the earliest days of administration. what you are seeing is the cumulative effect, four, 56 years of just railing against the fbi, against the u.s. intelligence community. the problem is that the prospect of violence, i, mean we saw that on a massive scale on january six from trump supporters. the prospect of violence is no longer something that is isolated to the extreme fringe of the party. it is something that has been incorporated into that mainstream of a lot of republican thinkers. you saw a lot of people, while they might have initial concerns about january 6th they -- within 24, 48, hours with backing away from any condemnation of, it talking about these folks as if they had done nothing wrong. this is the logical outgrowth and the logical continuation of this very extreme rhetoric, which again, it is not just talking about not representing values or doing something illegal. this is talking specifically about violence. you have the judge who signed

this warrant who is being targeted online and his family is identified, they are docked. they are releasing the name of the fbi agent who was on some of the search paperwork. you have the individual targeting in a very violent direct and personal way going on. when i look around, i don't see trump condemning it. i don't see -- i see senators saying that the fbi is known to plant evidence. i don't see any senators condemning. it instead the question is all these leaders, whether they are political leaders, whether they are media or thought leaders on the right wing of the republican party, nobody is backing away from this. we are going to pay a price. we are paying it now and i am afraid it is just going to get worse. >> yeah, we have to take all of that in. okay, thank you all for the conversation. coming up, next the former white house communications director, stephanie grisham, on what you saw firsthand on the president's handling of documents both at the white house and barr logo. but is this about a mile within trump world? trump world?

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kim john or up ferraro putin or anybody else that donald trump thinks is in love with him. these not with these documents are. during the raid on my hotel in my loft, you may recall that trump turned around and claimed that the fbi ransacked the place. that they destroyed it. that they pinch me up against the wall. all this nonsense. none of this is true. he wants you, the, audience to believe that he is the victim. he is always the victim. >> former trump lawyer, michael cohen, reacting to trump's handling of documents in the fbi search at mar-a-lago. joining me, now stephanie grisham, former white house communications director and press secretary. she is also served as press secretary and chief of staff to former first lady, melania trump.

stephen he resigned on january 6th, 2021. stephanie, it's good to have you back on the broadcast. thanks for joining me. you listen to michael cohen, there do you agree with his characterization of how donald trump spins the narrative to portray himself as the victim? >> absolutely. michael was completely spot on. i was actually shaking my head watching him because it was so spot on. it's interesting because it takes so long for so many of us, michael and myself included, to wake up to that. while i sit there and shake my head i also continue to get mad at myself that took me so long to realize that. >> you know, why do you think it took you so long? i mean, i'm not trying to have you delve into your psyche. was it just the environment that you are in? was it disclosed environment? and that's the way it was? >> yeah, i mean it is a long winded answer. but i will shorten it down for you guys. he is very charming. the man is very charming.

he can make you feel like you're the most important person in the room. that was my first impression. then you get so deep into it that it's kind of like you against the world. you guys against the world. that was something i felt all the time. and then you're like, well, if i try to get out everybody is going to hate me. nobody's gonna welcome me back. i still need a job. it's a lot of layers, to be honest with. you i'm glad to be out. >> i appreciate your candor, thank you for that. apart from the new reporting on how trump handled government documents in general. the national archives has rusty's to statement on january 3rd, -- 31st, rather. some of the trump presidential records received had been torn up and reach taped by government officials. some of the records had not been reconstructed. did you see or hear anything about this when you're in the white house? >> actually there's a story written, i forget what publication it was written about. that was his take that he had, he would naturally ripped

things up. it wasn't always anything sensitive, it could be an article that somebody pointed out for him unroll to eat. but they got ripped up all the time and that he would leave the room, the archival people would come in and try to gather the up and take them back together again. this is of the ones who they were able to see, of course. >> did that happen often? >> yeah, like i said, it was a habit of his. it felt like something that he's always done. he would just instinctual a rip up papers. >> how. let me play for you wet former obama press secretary, robert kim's, told me about what's in follows the investigation for white house staffers to get clearance to the top secret materials. i mentioned you are familiar with it, let's watch it. >> you go through a rigorous process that ends with an interview. you walk into a room and the only pictures on the wall in this room are of convicted spies. it is not subtle. they are very clear that you are now in a position of

information that people will risk their lives and pay a lot of money to try to get. your obligation is now having to sworn an oath to keep that information secret. that responsibility is now yours. >> that was a stunning detail light never heard before, convicted spies on the wall in these rooms. but that said, did you experience this? do all staffers with top clearances go through this? does that include the president? >> i don't know the answer to the president. i don't know if he received -- i am agile he would have. yes, every staffer who had different levels of security were to get a briefing up to the very highest, which is tss ei. i was given the briefing that said exactly that. there are bad actors, there are people in other countries and our own country who will pay good money for even a small thing. it might seem minute to the average american. you are given examples of how something small could be something big, which is not something i'll get into.

but we're definitely given briefings on that. and fortunately we didn't have a culture of compliance in the trump white house. we would constantly watch our boss, the president of the united states, be very messy with classified information. i point the dinner at mar-a-lago with prime minister abe, when north korea shot missiles and there was a whole briefing done literally in the middle of 300 mar-a-lago guests. there was a time when we were at the border and the president went off script and he started to talk about some of the technological advances we had down at the border. somebody had to step in and say sir, you need to stop talking about this. he was very messy with classified information. i think that kind of trickle down for a lot of us. >> i'm going to back you up with what john bolton said, which was that when told nbc news, quote, trump had a habit of grabbing intelligence documents. here's the part i want to focus. and god knows what he did with it. here's a little bit about what

mick mulvaney said about that. let's watch. >> from time to time the president would say, can i keep? this we had entire teams of people to make sure those documents didn't get left behind and get taken up to the residents. does this make sense? does this make sense of you? if you are on the teams. had a 27 boxes of material and up on a box in mar-a-lago? >>. i >> would say that john bolton nick mulvaney were both correct. every effort was made when they were not behind, let's say the situation room, -- even hally left on a table people would come in from an upper level and clearly with things off. it is true that the president was asked to keep things and i was a situation where it's the president of the united states. are you arguably the most powerful man in the world and sometimes the argument would be made, so we would prefer to keep this, but it doesn't always work, what are you going

to do. at the end of the day if the president said to his body man or someone in the outer oval i would like to take these to my residents, sending the map. you listen to the president. at the end of the day he is your commander-in-chief and you do with the president says. >> yeah. matt -- wrote in the washington post today, these documents can't be classified. trump and his allies are saying, because he unilaterally declassified them at some point, even if the feds still say they're classified. it's like he carries around a magic de classification wand he's harry potter in the house of treason. can anyone seriously argue, six years after his becoming president that he's unfamiliar at the declassification process? >> he's going to try. first it i did nothing wrong, than the fbi planted it, now it's they are declassified. i guess he is asking for them back. this is out of the trump playbook. they are doing anything, doing

anything at the wall to see what sticks and trying to distract people from the true truth which is that anything deemed classified should not be in the open. as olivia troye said in your earlier segment there is a home for these things, a place for these things. while other republicans right now, especially in leadership, are saying that this could be nothing. this could be nothing. i reject that. they know full well that this information could be useful to many different countries who are not our friends. >> yeah, let's talk about reports that donald trump is searching for an informant and, in fact, you were quoted in this article that it was an everyday obsession. who was leaking? who was cooperating with what? he would like regularly ask you and others, do i think i could trust this person? or do you trust this person? or tell you to go find the leaker. i mean, can you give examples of this? >> well the first, most obvious is when the anonymous book came out. that became literally an everyday obsession. he tasked many people in the

white house to find out who the leaker was. in the middle of a meeting about, i don't even, now let's say hurricane season, he was suddenly say who do you think wrote the anonymous book. that was one. really, any story that was bad and there was a source cited, he would immediately was like. who leaked? who leaked? sadly, in our white house, it became a way to weaponize against one another. you don't like somebody? all you have to do is go to the presidents that this person, i think, leaked. he would become immediately suspicious of them. i also said in the rolling stone article that you mentioned, i feel bad for him right now. now that i'm removed from it and have a clear vision i can't imagine living a life where you truly do not trust anyone around you. where all you wonder is who is turning their back on you. especially when he is somebody who demands like, 100%, loyalty. >> tell me a little bit more about mar-a-lago. how familiarity with the property and, when you think

about the rooms from which this may have been taken described as a basement. others, just in general, talk about your experience there. >> i spans every holiday there for five years. so, i am very, very familiar with property. it is a beautiful property. i will give the president that. >> you know there are many open areas. it is hard to explain because it is a major mansion that you are showing on screen right now. one day building, but then there are other buildings where, while his office is in the ballroom which is adjacent to mar-a-lago. there are also little colleges at the beach. there are a couple of cottages near the mansion. it is a very spread out property. i have been in the basement areas a couple of times. they are not secure. i don't even call doors, really. the fact they published a door i'm like, wow, i want to wish to where they are talking about. -- that people got on property that shouldn't have gone on

property. it is not secure and should be, the secret service does their very best, but it is also a membership club. that's a very big deal to the club, that we still at members bring guests, they bring a lot of money to be members. it's not a secure area and certainly not anywhere where anything should be this classified. >> he returned from 2016 campaign actually you've seen the statements they were he's posting about strong poll numbers and big campaign donations. when you think his political calculation is in responding the way that he has to all that went down? he's obviously trying to raise money for something, presumably for 2024 run. >> yeah. >> it's, i mean he's raising money now i think he can't spend. once he, until he runs, he can spend all this money on his own. people who are donating, i don't think they understand and they just felt like -- he just got his airplane fixed and painted.

i think he's taking advantage people, he's been vantage and putting peoples lives in danger and complicating law enforcement by doing it. he's taking advantage of people by playing victim and raising money, eventually, i do now think, again i chained my mind every time they but i do think he's going to run. i don't think he is eager to handle someone else running but i think because of his ego he will truly want to see if he can get away with all that this just happened still run for president and get that nomination. i think that would be the ultimate eagle stroke for him. and it's all very calculated, he's trying to distract, i said a few days ago i'm waiting for some kind of a spectacle to happen soon. whether that is him coming down an escalator in trump tower or announcing from mar-a-lago, but it's some time for some kind of spectacle that he will need to put together to continue to distract as the news keeps coming out. >> i'm going to react to that by saying, okay everybody, buckle up. it's good to see you, come

seeing you again, thank you so much. >> it is a horrific tragedy. we know it happened, but perhaps only one person can explain why it happened. more in a moment. more in a moment blocks excess acid production for a full 24 hours. unlike pepcid, which stops working after 9. 24 hour protection. prilosec otc one pill, 24 hours, zero heartburn. this breaking news, murder

charges for the man accused of driving a car into a crowd in pennsylvania last night. one person was killed, 17 others were hurt. let's go to nbc's george police on the scene for us and prefer lueck, pennsylvania. this is got to be really drawing this community, george. what are folks saying about what they saw last night? >> yeah, this community is a relaying for good reason. they have experienced several tragedies in as many days. i want to back up to set the timeline, here. overnight police arresting the suspect 24-year-old -- reyes. police say that he took his car and rammed it into a crowd of people at the scene where i've

been most of the day, you can see being cleared up by residents, this is where they were holding a fund-raiser for neighbors across town who have lost loved ones in a fire. ten people died in a fire. that fire happening just nine days ago. here is where things start to really get bizarre. police now confirming that the coroner confirming that he actually killed his mother shortly after that car crash. very -- that he took his car, stop with a, news to hammer to bludgeon her. as far as the scene here, authorities say that a 50 year old woman was killed and 17 others were injured. we can report that at least five people are still in critical condition as a result of those injuries. some have fortunately been able to go home. with so much tragedy right now, we just found out that the funeral for those people lost in that fire was happening in town today. not long ago, a procession with first responders passing by here. there's a lot of emotion, a lot

of elements to the story. of course people just want to know why. why did this happen? at this point no motive it has been released. even though the suspect is in custody, a lot of people in this community still want answers as to why this all happened. alex. >> this is just a terrible story. this guy is clearly disturbed. what a horrible story, george. thank you though for sharing the details, as you know them. coming up next, why lawmakers are calling for a damage assessment of the highly classified documents recovered from mar-a-lago. i will speak with a member of house intelligence committee next. ee next this is the moment. for a treatment for moderate-to-severe eczema. cibinqo — fda approved. 100% steroid free. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments. and cibinqo helps provide clearer skin and less itch. cibinqo can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb.

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i'm greg, i'm 68 years old. i do motivational speaking speak with your doctor about cibinqo today. in addition to the substitute teaching. i honestly feel that that's my calling-- to give back to younger people. i think most adults will start realizing that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. new reactions they from lawmakers on the fbi search of mar-a-lago. this -- members of congress asked the intelligence community for a damage has been on those documents seized. others are defending the former president. >> i think it's important that we recognize that there are

more, there is more information to be released yet. i think releasing the affidavit would help, at least that would confirm that there was justification for this raid. republicans out there are questioning why in the world are you going after a former president right now, but you didn't go after other individuals who clearly had classified documents or information that was sensitive and you did not do that in the previous administration. >> joining me now is a member of congress and raja krishnamoorthi. welcome back to the progress, thank you for joining me -- host him across top investigator committee chairs -- and sharon maloney ask the director of national intelligence to conduct an immediate david damage assessment to the files removed from mar-a-lago. can you explain why this would be necessary and the national security danger that is posed by these documents? >> well, as you know alex,,

there are these 11 sets of documents that were classified. -- were retrieved. among those were classified documents that were even tss sihai documents, perhaps the most sensitive documents that are marked as classified. if they were to fall into the wrong hands, especially given the fact that the warrant specifically sets up that the espionage act might be at play in woven defense related information that is extremely disturbing and we need to know who if anybody might have had access to those documents and what is the damage to our national security potentially. >> to that answer we still don't know why donald trump took the sensitive documents and, then by the, way feel to return them after being subpoenaed in the spring. can you explain to americans why it should matter that trump kept this material and why any of his a hois's or

should face criminal library liability if they broke federal laws. i think for a long time we have had very serious concerns about donald trump as well as members of his administration and family handling this classified material, especially after he left the presidency. as you know, he has serious ties with foreign governments. oftentimes those don't even get disclosed on the spf 86 forms. those are the applications for access to top secret documents that his family and members of the administration had filed. on top of that they are often in financial distress. the natural question is, what counter intelligence risk canned that all pose? that's why americans should be concerned, god forbid any of this information was leveraged for any type of financial gain.

not necessarily by president trump but even by other members of his administration or his family. and now, regardless of what you think about donald trump, we just need to get to the bottom of who may have had access to that information and how do we prevent that from harping our national security? >> congressman, to do that do you need to hear more about the justice department? do you need to get the answers that you're looking for? also, potentially, do you need to silence those republicans who are clambering about the unfairness of all of this and to get donald trump's side and feeling like he was treated poorly with all of this and he hadn't had these documents taken from him? >> first of all we want to hear from the dni, the director of national intelligence, and her folks who have a better understanding of what the potential national security implications of these documents is, and what is being done with the intelligence community to

prevent further damage from potential exposure to these very sensitive documents. >> what about the report by nbc news which talked about the chaotic departure at best from donald trump and the white house at the very last minute, and we also know that he took a very cavalier approach to the official documents while he was in office. former aides, stephanie grossman, who was just on the show, said that he often ripped up records that they would have been retrieved. there's an expert saying that the search warrant for his home raises the question as to whether he knew he had sensitive documents and was keeping them from the federal government. but in your mind, sir, it doesn't matter whether or not he knowingly remove them? >> obviously knowingly removing them is very disturbing. but even if he recklessly removed them, that is still disturbing. i think that the --

we need to remember that once the presidential archives or the archives -- the national archives recognizes that the documents were removed from the white house, they asked for those evidence back. when they didn't receive them they sent a subpoena through the justice department. when those documents weren't forthcoming, then they actually visited members of the justice department to get those documents back. when that wasn't forthcoming, then these agents went and found these documents that have not been retrieved. the other questions that came up were, well, what documents were potentially destroyed? were any documents move to other locations? we don't know this. all these questions along with the statutes that were invoked within the warrant raised some disturbing questions of national security. that is why we need to understand the implications for any damage done to our national security. one last thing i will point out,

if you look at the statute of self-worth workers guards to the espionage act, it doesn't really even bring up whether donald trump mishandled classified information. that particular statute is more concerned about whether secrets were actually exposed or given to our adversaries. it's related to defense information. >> there's been a lot of speculation about that. i'm asking you to come back as soon as you start hearing what was all squared away from mar-a-lago, i would love to hear your assessment of what was included in these documents. i look forward to seeing you then. coming up, next the donald trump ribbons factor into big primaries on tuesday. can the targets of his anger survive? survive? ♪ you know how i feel ♪ (coughing) ♪ breeze driftin' on by ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ copd may have gotten you here,

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reserve to the big board with analysis from alaska and wyoming. in those states, the specter of donald trump looms large as he seeks political revenge. joining us now, nbc's, aly patel-y and anchorage alaska and gianna -- in jackson, wyoming. welcome to you both. beautiful backdrops, by. the way we're gonna go first to you, ali. let's go to the two biggest races. their senator lacey murkowski, trying to hold on to her senate seat. then you have former governor, sailor palin, who is trying to win an open house seat. how did these races highlight trump's influence? >> alex, that's exactly right. john and i were competing for best backdrop. we will have to see who owes each other up your when we get back no washington after today. you're exactly right with the stakes, trump is the referendum piece and both of these races but in different ways. in the instance of the house primary you're going to see this state use rank choice voting for the first time to decide which candidate is going to finish of the term of the late congressman, don young.

then you're going to see if sarah palin can make her return to the national political spotlight amid a party that has really come to more towards her fire grand persona than ever before, at least before the last time she was running in the national spotlight. then of course you look to the senate race, where trump has endorsed the non incumbent in this race, senator lisa murkowski, known for her independents street in washington. she's running for reelection against the trump headwinds. he has endorsed her challenger, kelly shaka. that is going to be another instance where murkowski is no stranger to tough races. she won famously and in 2010 reelection based on our write in campaign that she mapped. and again, this is going to be a moment to see where trump's power is in a state that he won by ten points in 2020, but that is also known for its fiercely independent streak. we'll see the way that voters ultimately decide in these two key races, alex. >> really quickly, anything seem like a runaway? are these super super competitive? >> look, in both of these cases,

it is going to be interesting because you're probably not going to get results for at least a week, maybe two. that's what one of the experts that we were talking to says. that's going to meet that people like sarah palin and kelly chewbacca and donald trump himself say that the way that they are conducting this election, which by the way, voters have voted to do this kind of voting, ranked choice voting for 2020. it's the first time they're using. it trump's deal saying that this is an example of a rigged election, despite the fact that all you're asking voters to do is instead of picking one candidate just rank them one through four, then as candidates are eliminated their votes are then retire belated and put to the second or third candidate on their list. that's going to be an interesting wrinkle here too. >> it's definitely complemented, but name recognition helps in that regard. ali, thank you for. that the congressional race getting the biggest attention tuesday involves wyoming's, liz cheney and jonathan, is it true if cheney has any chance of winning she's going to need help from democrats? >> that is absolutely true,.

alex let me just pause for a moment. you talked about the backdrops. i want to talk about alleys expertise on women running for the office. she has a book coming out next week on electable and why a woman hasn't won the presidency yet. it's great to hear her from alaska talking about that here. in wyoming we have two women running against each other for congress, liz cheney and harriet -- the real opponent for liz cheney's math. this is the vote for trump in 2020. there aren't enough republicans for, her for her to win she needs democrats to rid register and vote for her. if you look at the polling numbers that have been released publicly, which are consistent with some of the private polling numbers, cheney is down by 30 points. she needs to get a bunch of those democrats to cross over that may not be of help in the state for that to happen. we did talk to some of those folks in jackson recently and around the state, let's take a listen to whet one of them had to say. >> i believe in liz cheney. i believe she has a future in

the republican party. i've always voted democratic, but this time i voted for liz because i believe in her. i believe in her values and i believe that she has a love for our country, and believes in our constitution. she has integrity and honesty. >> alex, that is something we have heard from both democrats and a handful of republicans who have supported cheney. again, the problem here for her is matt. but we haven't seen out here is liz cheney. she doesn't appear to be can came-ing -- no events on the schedule. she's not dumping that last bit of -- which is about $7 million. >> wow, we're gonna be watching closely. good to see you, both thank you so. much ali, congrats on the book. come talk to me about that, i would love that. for all of you, that is going to do it for me on this edition of alex witt reports. i will see you again tomorrow, 11 am, and next saturday, noon eastern. up next, lizzy reiser continues our coverage. our coverage.

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