night. and the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening rachel. chris, do you have a connection to the fbi? >> do i personally? >> >> every time you go on vacation the fbi does something that nobody expected that blows everybody away and i have to call you and ask where in the world you are. >> i found out the search warrant in mar-a-lago from a text from you, and i hadn't even gotten to the american news, and i guess things are kinds of crazy, woe, babe, they searched mar-a-lago. >> rachel just rang again. every time i leave the east coast. >> anyway, i'm putting a leash on you, my friend. i can't take the suspense anymore. welcome back. >> good to be back. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. great to have you here. do you remember the name brandon

van greg? it is a very memorable name, you might remember the sound of it and if not the circumstance you first heard. it but if you are like me, and all likelihood the first time you heard the name brandon van grack was the first time you heard the word espionage formally associated with the presidency of donald trump. espionage as in the espionage act. as in not just spy movie stuff. as in u.s. law. there are only about four months in to the trump administration when "the new york times" was first to report that the then brand new trump administration had made a very unusual hiring decision that ultimately implicated the work of a veteran espionage prosecutor at the u.s. department of justice. it was very early on, it was may 2017 so you think about that for a second, trump was inaugurated at the end of january, this was less than four months later, in

may of that year, less than four months into his presidency, we learned in "the new york times" that during the trump transition, a person who may have been considering for the job of national security adviser, not just somebody to be a national security adviser to the new president but literally the national security adviser, a guy they had been considering for that job, according to the times, had notified the trump transition team thats there there was a big problem with him potentially being appointed national security adviser. a very serious problem this. guy who was being considered as national security adviser, he told the trump transition, hey, you know what, i feel like i ought to let you know, i'm under active federal investigation as a potentially unregistered agent of a foreign power. full stop right there. right? this is not like i wanted to let you know i had a speeding ticket and i'm getting points on my license. this is not like, you know, i'm

in a dispute with my town over my property tax bill and they tell me i'm short 200 bucks and i know i'm not. this is, i'm under investigation for being a foreign agent. i'm under federal agent for potentially being the agent of a foreign power. if you're under federal investigation as a possible foreign agent, you can't work in like the cafeteria at the white house. you can't get a job emptying trash bins in the congress. you certainly can't be national security adviser. if the justice department is actively investigating you, as a secret foreign agent. at least you think. but this guy who was under consideration for that job, he came to the trump transition, he warned about the active federal investigation, and the trump administration, the incoming trump administration decided they would hire him anyway. they would hire him despite that. and that is how we got michael

flynn as national security adviser for approximately five minutes. while he was under investigation as a potential foreign agent of the nation of turkey, and before he started lying to federal investigators about his communications with the russian government. when we all read in "the new york times" in may 2017 that they had hired him anyway, even though they knew, even though they had been warned, and we learned that the investigation into the matter is being led by a veteran espionage prosecutor, named brandon van grack, and remember, just my stomach flipping over the seriousness of this thing. there is one thing there is some shenanigans, there is some maybe not the best people, there is some incompetence, there is some cavalierness, some stuff to worry about here, but when it's the espionage prosecutor that has to be working on the case involving the new national

security adviser, that is bad. right? your country has been put in a bad situation if a new president, a new administration, is playing games like that. if that's how it is starting, you can be sure it is not going to end well. and it's likely not going to end for a long time. things like that have long tails. even if the you know, veteran espionage prosecutor in question has the fantastic and memorable name of brandon van grack, him being in the news in the first four months of a new administration, and it being about somebody who has the job of national security adviser, that's bad. that's a really bad start. that was how it started five and a half years ago. and now, tonight, five and a half years after that stomach-churning reporting in "the new york times," after all of those years in the thick of the intrigue and upset of that administration, brandon van

grack has now left the justice department, i'm pleased to say, i'm loernd to say, he's going to join us live here in just a moment here on the set. he is here tonight of course at a time when the espionage act is back in the news. on friday, we learned from the unsealing of the justice department search warrant that it is an inquiry under the espionage act that led the fbi to execute a search warrant at former president trump's property in south florida last week. it's an amazing thing. files seized from the former president. espionage act inquiry. go back in time and try to convince your grandparents and your great grandparents that this is the america that we inherited from them. espionage act inquiry, files seized from trump part of an espionage act inquiry. the portion of the page act that

concerns the national security information to harm -- to get more specific, to get that warrant to search trump's house in florida, prosecutors had to prove to a satisfaction of a federal judge there was probable cause to believe that at trump's home that there was evidence that part of the espionage act had been violated, that that crime had been committed. now, the first question that raised for many of us was, is this real, am i dead is, this actually my life, next question, is that it? is this the end of it? certain specificity to the question of whether that search warrant might itself have been the end of the matter, by which i mean, were they using the search warrant to collect that material that trump wasn't supposed to have, but then basically once they had, once they retrieved the material from him, is it basically case closed. "the new york times" put it this

way last week in print. they said quote, it is not clear whether the search was carried out simply to ensure that the documents and other material were properly turned over to the archives, or whether it was a possible precursor to a prosecution of mr. trump, for mishandling classified materials or obstructing efforts to get it back. in other words, did federal prosecutors get that search warrant because they believed that trump wasn't handing over all of the sensitive materials that he had, so they used the warrant basically to go get the stuff back by force, and now that's it, that's the end of it, that's as far as they want it to go? or, did they go get the material, using a search warrant, as part of an investigation that is not over now that they've got the stuff, that is pointing in the end in the end toward possible criminal charges for whoever is responsible for this breach? which is it? does the search warrant get the stuff or is the search warrant to lead to a potential criminal

case. in a filing tonight, in federal court, the justice department explains that it's the latter. that it is not over. now that they've gone and snatched back all of the classified and top secret information that the former president inexplicably had stashed in his basement. in a report why the justice department doesn't want to release further information about the case at this point, the search warrant wasn't the end of it, it is part of an ongoing investigation, and they used that term repeatedly. quote here the government has a compelling overriding interest in preserving the integrity of an ongoing criminal investigation. quote, disclosure at this juncture of the affidavit supporting probable cause would cause significant and irreparable damage to this ongoing criminal investigation. quote if disclosed, the affidavit would serve as a road map for the government's ongoing investigation providing specific details about its direction and likely course and in a manner that is highly likely to compromise future investigative

steps. that's all in the justice department's court filing tonight. and what we learned from that court filing is that the justice department is expecting further investigative steps. they are contemplating further investigative steps in what they repeatedly describe as an ongoing criminal investigation. an ongoing criminal effect, quote, that implicates national security. so again, one of the main questions about what is going on here is now answered by the justice department's filing this evening, the point of that search warrant last week was not just to go and get the stuff and now they've got it, it can be safely put back under lock and key, and case closed. no. the search warrant we now know was to get that stuff, but it is also part of an ongoing criminal investigation that could lead to criminal charges and an ongoing criminal investigation involving the espionage act into the former president which is astonishing. and for him, of course, that's

bad. for him, it's sort of hard to narrow it down though. there's a lot that's bad right now. for example, just in today's news, the former president's lawyer, a lawyer who took the lead for him on trump's efforts to try to stay in power even after he lost re-election, that lawyer, rudy giuliani, as you know he has already had his law license suspended in at least one state because of those efforts on behalf of trump, today state prosecutors in georgia notified mr. giuliani that they no longer consider him to be a material witness in their criminal investigation of election interference efforts in the state of georgia. mr. giuliani's lawyers say they were notified today by georgia state prosecutors that their client, rudy giuliani, is now officially a target of that investigation. no longer a material witness, now a target. that effectively means prosecutors are warning giuliani that he may get indicted in that case under georgia state law and so he should get his ducks in a

row. now, beyond that, trump ally republican senator lindsey graham, he had argued recently in federal court, that he should be allowed to defy a subpoena to testify to the grand jury in that case. senator graham says he has been notified that he is not a target, he's just a witness. but he does not want to answer a subpoena to testify as a witness in that case, because he told the court in georgia he's just doing his job as a senator and he should be protected as such from having to answer questions about it. his lawyers argued to the court when senator graham called georgia officials after the presidential election he was doing his quote due diligence. he was just asking questions to inform his own vote as a senator on whether he was going to vote to certify the election results. they say because he was just doing his work as a senator when he made those calls, he should be immune from questions about it. well, a federal judge in georgia today rejected that claim and

did so bluntly. the judge ruled that in fact, senator lindsey graham does have to answer questions from the grand jury, because he was not just fact finding, he was not just asking questions and doing due diligence as a senator, multiple witnesses claim when senator lindsey graham called georgia officials after the election, he was quote seeking to influence their actions. in the counting of the vote in that state. he wasn't just asking questions about state procedures. he was trying to get them to do things that would benefit president trump. as president trump was trying to have the election results in that state overturned. and trying to influence the work of georgia state election officials is not the lawful work of a united states senator. and so yes, a federal judge told him today that he's got to testify about that. senator graham says he will appeal the judge's ruling and so he shall see how this shakes out and he has been notified that he is not a target of the investigation, he's just a witness, but he's still trying

to fight the subpoena order and testify. now, in that georgia case, the other people who have received target letters, the other people who have been told to expect that they may be indicted in that criminal case, they're all people, besides rudy giuliani, who were implicated in the fake electors plot, this plot to send in forged documents naming fake electors for trump, in states that didn't have trump electors because biden won those states. that fake electors thing is a criminal matter in georgia, it's also a matter under federal criminal investigation as well. there's one thing i think worth pointing bought that, that i think has been lost by so many of these headlines in today's news. remember how we learned about the fake electors scheme. how we learned about how it came together, and how we learned about it being under federal investigation. you might remember about the fake electors that it sort of started as something that looked like a bunch of disparate

efforts in disparate state, some people pretending to be electors who weren't really electors in georgia. another group trying to do the same thing in michigan, another group trying to do it but sort of differently in the state of arizona. it looked different, and a whole bunch of different states, when that happened, and when that first came to public attention. that mattered. the fake electors thing appears to have become a federal criminal investigation rather than just an investigation into individual states, when it became apparent that this thing wasn't just spontaneously happening in multiple states, it was an organized thing. the trump campaign and other people around president trump organized that effort around the country. these weren't just disparate things that were happening in different states at the same time, by happenstance, by coincidence, it was an organized central top-down approach. that is the pattern that we saw happen with the fake electors thing. today, that same pattern started to become apparent in another thing they did to try to

overturn the election results. specifically, the effort to grab voting machines, to seize supposedly secure voting equipment, and tabulators in multiple states, even though that equipment is very highly regulated and is only supposed to have, people are only supposed to have access to it under very tightly-controlled circumstances. now, there have been criminal charges brought already in the state of colorado for trump folks seizing and corrupting voting equipment there. same thing is under criminal investigation in multiple jurisdictions in michigan, as well. but now today, the "washington post" reports that in colorado, in michigan, in nevada, in georgia, and a whole bunch of states, these folks messing with the voting equipment apparently weren't just spontaneously acting on their own to illegally access all of this equipment they weren't supposed to be able to touch. they didn't just all have the same idea all at once independently coincidentally. the "washington post" reports today in something of a

bombshell that just like with the fakz electors, this one too appears to have been a centrally coordinated effort run by people close to trump. again with the fake electors thing, it was evidence of the trump campaign's involvement, their national coordination of what otherwise looked like disparate efforts in a whole bunch of states, that's what apparently led to the now ongoing federal criminal investigation of the fake electors scheme. as of today, the "washington post" reports that there was a similar central organized effort running these schemes to seize and corrupt secure voting machines in multiple states and it was linked to the trump campaign. so you know, all of us, as we are trying to track all of these things, we are going to have to add another column to the billboard-sized spread sheets we're all maintaining now, trying to keep track of the various criminal investigations that surround the last

president. president biden tomorrow is going to sign what he hopes and expects will be the signature legislative achievement of his first term as president. the nation's first major legislation on climate. and the biggest and most important legislation on prescription drug costs in decades. something the democrats have been trying to do on prescription drug costs and trying to do it for 30 years, biden finally got it done. the big inflation reduction act, he is going to sign that tomorrow, it is a huge deal in terms of policy, a huge deal for the democrats, a huge deal for this president. before the president -- he's got competing headlines. because it turns out that there are years and years and years of ramifications of electing somebody who from the very start was keeping espionage prosecutors busy here at home. five and a half years down the

line from the first blood-curdling headlines about what was going on with this president and national security. five and a half years they hired him, a national security adviser, even though they knew he was under federal investigation as a potential foreign agent, five and a half years down the line, that trump national security adviser, michael flynn, has been pardoned by trump, after he pled guilty to lying to investigators about his contacts with a different foreign hostile government and the defense department announced they would try to recoup tens of thousands of dollars, the russian government paid to michael flynn that he never declared. five and a half years down the line from the stomach-churning start of that plot in the spring of 2017, that veteran espionage prosecutor who led the investigation when we first learned about it in the spring of 2017, brandon van grack has left the justice department and the government service and

started his justice department career as a trial attorney in the national security division, cyber attacks and money laundering and theft of trade secrets and yes, espionage. spy for china out of michigan. a guy who was end-uning the high-tech sanctions on iran. a hacker kosovo who provided material support to isis. specifically he gave isis personal information on more than 1300 u.s. government and military personnel. he gave isis that kill list effectively of u.s. government and military personnel. brandon van grack helped prosecute him. after robert mueller appointed him as part of the team to investigate the ties to russia around the 2016 election, van grack spent nearly three years investigating and prosecuting trump allies michael flynn and paul manafort. interestingly he resigned from the flynn case after a william

barr appointee took over in the u.s. attorney's office in dc and moved to withdraw the government's case against flynn. even though flynn by then had already pled guilty twice. he resigned from the flynn investigate and continued the justice department unit that prosecutors unregistered foreign agents. in that role the first official to oversee all foreign influence operations across the u.s. justice department. brandon van grack has since left the justice department but boy there is nobody i would rather talk to tonight about what is going on in our country with these remarkable and unprecedented charges and investigations involving the former president. brandon van grack joins us live here in the studio next.

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veteran former espionage prosecutor and former member of robert mueller's team, worked on the prosecutions of michael flynn and paul manafort, brandon van grack, it is a real pleasure to meet you. >> nice to meet you as well. >> first of all, thank you for doing this. i know you don't do this. and i'm grateful you decided to be here. i want to talk to you about a lot of things in your career but i want to start with the national discourse right now around this investigation involving a search warrant of the president's home in south florida, and the headlines that say this is an inquiry under the espionage act, continuing to blow everybody's minds. i still find it to be almost impossible to look at these lines and not see this as a movie and see this as real life and as someone who has worked in the nitty gritty in this part of the law, what should we understand about the seriousness here and do you feel that the national discourse around it is wrong or -- >> it is a really important point, because right now, there is a focus on what is the end

game. is there, is someone going to be charged, and you don't need to get to that point to appreciate the fact that there is serious national security implications from the conduct and the information just before us, and what we get just from the receipt of the search warrant. there are multiple series of documents that are classified, that are labeled top secret, that were in unsecured locations, for 19 months. we already know the fact that there were classified documents that were provided to the archives seven months before. that you don't need to take any more leaps beyond that to appreciate the fact that there's real national security harm or potential damage caused by that. right now, the intelligence community is sorting through that information and doing a damage assessment, trying to assess what sources and methods have been compromised, that is separate from the fact that anyone is charged and so it is important that we don't get too far ahead. >> and one of the things that has been described by reporters

and i'm not quite sure i totally understand it, i think i get it in my head but not my gut, the justice department's reference to statutes referenced and i think hear it described that it doesn't matter, the way they are citing statutory law doesn't matter if trump believes he declassified those document, that the technical status classification of those documents wouldn't decide whether or not charges could be brought on those documents, and do you agree and can you understand that. >> it might be technically true but in reality i think in reality if in fact this material was declassified, and have a material impact on whether charges are brought, so the charge referenced in the espionage act, it concerns mishandling and retention of classified information, 18 u.s. code and the language says the retention of national defense information and that's defined through years of case law. it doesn't say classified

information. but for all intents and purposes the justice department considers that to be classified information. there is only one case in its history that information that was not classified information was charged and that was actually a plea agreement. so it wasn't sort of tested and so for all intents and purposes if the justice department wleev ors has reason to believe that this information was declassified and we don't know, that it is very unlikely, that is called a retention case and a retention charge would occur. with the respect to the other two charges in the search warrant, one concerning obstruction and another concerning ultimately the remoefl of presidential records, that doesn't have a connection to classified information. so it doesn't technically matter. but ultimately, the motive and the intent behind the removal of the information, or the obstruction does matter. and so if people involved in the process did believe they were declassified, that matters. now it doesn't plene therefore it precludes a criminal

prosecution, on those two statutes but the point is it matters and it is relevant, and so i don't think simply saying it's in the material is the right way to read the charges. >> if the person in question here, one of the people in question here is potentially in trouble, because of the way these documents were handled, is the former president, is there a way to divine his intent for purposes of deciding whether charges are warranted, without interviewing him? >> so the reality is if he's the target of an investigation, there isn't going to be an interview. i mean we do know from the information that you discussed in the top of the hour that there's discussion in the government's recent filing, in terms of the decision not to unseal the affidavit, that there are witnesses who are cooperating in the investigation. specifically say that's a basis for not unsealing the affidavit. so there are certainly people in the orbit that would have information that would be

relevant to understanding intent and motive. >> one of the things that rose today in the news was a claim by former president trump that his passports went walking during the search warrant, during the execution of the search warrant, he described them as being stolen by the fbi, there was later reporting suggesting that perhaps his passports were taken as part of the execution of the search warrant and then returned to him. what should we understand about that? >> so a couple of pieces, which is first, there's a lot of parts to these investigations and it is really important we're not distracted by the cacophony and really focused on the important information and that goes to my earlier point, just based on what we know, there are some national security implications on what happened. but with respect to the passport, if that is in fact true, if in fact there were multiple passports of the former president taken, there is really not much to read into it. it is unlikely that the department of justice is signaling that the former president is a flight risk. it is unlikely that the

department of justice is signaling that criminal charges are imminent. more likely again, if it is in fact true, it is simply responses to the search warrant. the search warrant specifically said it can seize presidential records and so perhaps the fbi believed, i don't know rightly or wrongly, that these passports were presidential records, and also in the search warrant, it says information that's commingled with the classified information, should be seized and so far all we know these passports were commingled. but talking about something that ultimately i don't think is significant, if for any reason, the denial of these passports impair the president's ability to travel, i'm certain that a simple call from the president to the accident of justice would resolve that and i think it is an ultimate distraction and there are serious issues here and it is important that we don't get distracted. >> the government has his passports and you go to the issue of law and order where the guy gets arrest and his

passports are seized because he is seen as a flight risk but there is nothing here to indicate that connection. >> that's right. and there are instances where passports get seized but that is when someone is about to be charged or has been charged. and there's no indication that we've reached that point in the investigation. >> also, i wanted to ask you about the news reported in "the new york times" this weekend that president trump and the intermediary appears to have tried to reach out to the attorney general after the search warrant was executed, obviously, and after the attorney general around the time of the attorney general is making the decision to both speak publicly and ask for the search warrant to be unsealed. just from the perspective of somebody who is in the justice department at the kind of levels that you worked at, is that wrong? is that weird? is that appropriate? is that normal? how do you view that? >> i guess i view it as irrelevant. the reality is there are probably outreaches that occurred to senior levels of the government, department of justice all the time, this is something where i cannot see or

think of a situation where that will have any impact on the investigation. and so appropriate or not, again, i don't think it will have any impact on the investigation. and again, really, i would consider it to be noise or a distraction when the fact is again there were real national security issues at play and that should be the focus. >> and let me ask you another thing which may be a distraction but from the outside it seems at least fraught. we've now seen three trump white house lawyers, white house counsel pat cipollone, his deputy pat fill philbin eric kishman, all receiving subpoenas from the justice department and we don't know the topic and we don't know what grand jury and there are a lot of investigations, that itself is remarkable and we've seen a member of congress have his phone seized as part of an investigation in which he is reportedly been told he is a witness and not a target. . when you're talking about white house lawyers and serving members of congress, and these sorts of people who aren't typically caught up in the work

of the justice department, how does that influence you, your decisions, as a prosecutor, as an investigator, knowing that people with a lot of political party and people with sensitive political jobs are in your sights. >> i think one of the signals from the attorney general and the justice department which is really important to stress is that ultimately there's considerations really are not having an impact, and that's in multiple investigations. in fact, i think it is also reported today, indicated that the search warrant with respect to mar-a-lago was sitting with the attorney general for a period of time, and that he was wrestling with it, and i think what we can say, even though i think it is common for there to be disagreement in some of the aks from the department of justice, that all of the actions we're talking about are not influenced by political considerations. and there really is no appearance of political influence in these decisions. and i think that is such a critical issue for the department of justice, and i mean really, if you take a step back and appreciate, and you talked about the department of justice, it is foundational to

the legitimacy of the government to exercise its authority. i mean it is a department that has the ability to deprive an individual of their liberty. and so the legitimacy of that department is paramount. and i think the attorney general not only appreciates that but you can see through his words and deeds that that is a constant thing in how he acts. >> brandon van grack, veteran prosecutor from the u.s. justice department, member of special counsel robert mueller's team, again, your first u.s. tv interview i hope it is not your last, i hope you come back. we'll be right back. stay with us. ight back. stay with us it's dr. scholl's time. our custom fit orthotics use foot mapping technology to give you personalized support, for all-day pain relief. find your relief in store or online.

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america cannot remain free if we abandon the truth. the lie that the 2020 presidential election was stolen is insidious. this is donald trump's legacy. but it cannot be the future of our nation. history has shown us over and over again, that these types of poison lies destroy free nations. we are stronger, more dedicated, and more determined than those trying to destroy our republic. this is our great task. and we prevail. >> that was republican liz cheney's congresswoman's closing message heading into her republican primary election in

wyoming tomorrow. congress woman cheney is facing a trump backed election denying challenger in harriet hageman, if you want a sneak peek with the way the election is expected to go, look at this, the latest poll from the university of wyoming, it shows that voters who support hageman are overwhelmingly thinking that joe biden secretly isn't really the president. of voters who support harriet hageman, the percentage of them who accept that joe biden really is the president legitimately is only 16%. meanwhile, if you look at liz cheney voters, cheney who says they are likely to vote for liz cheney, they believe joe biden's election is legitimate at a rate of 93%. 93% versus 16%. what makes those results even more stunning is that that same poll shows cheney losing to hageman by nearly 30 points. it looks like republicans from

wyoming are set to oust cheney because she accepts the reality that trump didn't win the 2020 election, and because of the way she stood up against his efforts to try to stay in power anyway. that said, you know, poms aren't elections. elections are elections. and anything is possible. we'll see. for example, since that poll was taken it has been resealed that the person who hageman supporters believe is still the rightful president donald trump, it has been revealed that he is under investigation by the fbi and the justice department by among other things the espionage act. who so who knows. results of that election will be a stunning development either way. polls are closing in that race 9:00 p.m. eastern time tomorrow. 9:00 p.m. eastern, 9:00 p.m. eastern, that's important because it is the opening day for the very first alex wagner and the host joins us here now.

it's happening. >> electricity. i'm talking about another dimension. >> how do you feel? >> excited, terrified. in awe, you know, like i will say rachel, i'm not saying this because you are in front of me on live television but i really, it is, you've done an incredible thing, with television and in the 9:00 hour and i feel very deeply honored to be shepherding through the rest of the week, and i hope that we are able to conduct ourselves with the integrity and the rigor and the just deep thought that you have established in this hour, and to share the week with you and that's all i will say without making myself cry, but anyway -- >> okay, we will never speak of this again. >> okay, fine. >> you are working of course, especially starting with the best staff in the business. the rachel maddow staff is epic. >> yes.

>> so do not break them. but to take over at this time, i feel like we are in this explosive moment in the news right now, where, you know, everybody, we're ul under the microscope and everything, all sorts of scrutiny, we get all of the criticism, but we have this incredible privilege and responsibility to cover this moment when america might stay a democracy and might not. >> i think it's not an overstatement to say it's an open question whether the experiment works. you know, like when we've taken for granted that this form of government, this kind of democracy will always exist, because that's all we've ever known as americans but it really feels there is an existential threat, and to be in the news, as we are drinking from particular not just a fire hose but grappling with some of the craziest most significant urgent issues of time, it is all alone but it is also terribly exciting and i feel guilty saying that, but as journalist, i mean to have to navigate these choppy waters and to do it in this place, with the team that we

have, is an extraordinary gift. >> well i'm psyched, too, that i know you just have come back from a reporting trip from florida, and you will be doing a lot in the field, talk to me a little bit about that idea of matching sort of the sort of national, i mean it's kind of like a reading comprehension exercise extent being in prime time, i have absorbed the news and here is weigh think it is important, but matching it that with on the ground reporting, tell me about the work you do. >> i think it is important to do it as allows and for me to get out of the studio and i learn so much, talking to people and understanding the issues in a very human way, and talking in the abstract about critical race theory and when you see how that translates into school curriculum in florida or how it affects people's daily lives, how they've internalized some strange arguments that are

untethered to fact or whether they're big advocates for pushing for the truth and having a positive effect on american democracy, i think we learn the lessons, we understand the issues in a very powerful vis rabble way when you're talk together people themselves and the people who are at the center of the issues, the plaintiffs in the lawsuit, the attorney generals, the last abortion doctors in texas, whoever they are, i just think it, as a host, it gives me, i think a ton more perspective on the news, and i hope that it gives the audience a better understanding of what is happening in america. so much feels like this side versus that side and the more that we can, i'm not saying make people fooe feel better about each other, but understand sort of the humanity involved in all of this. i think, you know, the better job we're doing as journalists and perhaps maybe somewhere along the way, the more we can stay tied together in one democracy. >> less heat, more light. >> we try. >> alex wagner, congratulations. >> thank you. >> i'll be monday, i'm here to

help. >> and you're invited, tuesdays through fridays, my sister. >> alex wagner, the new host of alex wagner tonight premieres tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. eastern time. we'll be right back. stay with us. time we'll be right back. stay with us

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when tired, achy feet make your whole body want to stop, it's dr. scholl's time. our insoles are designed with unique massaging gel waves, for all-day comfort and energy. find your relief in store or online. in april, we followed the historic nomination that he made, he got the first-ever african american woman, ketanji brown jackson, confirmed on the united states supreme court. in june, president biden signed

the biggest gun reform bill into law in decades, breaking a multi-decade issue. and two weeks ago a counter-terrorism success, getting al qaeda leader al zawahiri a-two decades of chasing him. and sweden and finland to nato, expanding and strengthening that alliance in the war of russia against ukraine. and signed the chip law into law, a $200 billion piece of legislation that will kick start the production of semiconductor chips here in the united states and a big deal with competition with china economically and national security grounds. all on tuesday. then on wednesday, i signed another huge bill to provide health coverage for up to 3 1/2 million u.s. veterans who were exposed to toxic burn pits when deployed to iraq and afghanistan. also, gas prices have now dropped for 62 straight days.

tomorrow, president biden will add his biggest legislative achievement yet to that list, the inflation reduction act which is what the democrats have been trying for, for a generation, there is the bill that empowers the administration to negotiate drug prices, using the medicare program, the first time they will ever be able to do that. democrats have been trying to get that into law for 30 years. biden finally got it done. the bill also caps out-of-pocket medication costs for seniors who are on medicare, if you're on medicare, your drug costs, the out-of-pocket amount that you pay per year will no longer exceed $2,000 a year. no matter what your drugs cost. there has never been a count like that before. and it closes tax loopholes and establishes a 15% minimum tax for corporations that make over $1 billion a year. and most significantly of all, the biggest climate investment in the history of the country. somehow all of that has managed

to pass in a 50-50 senate that includes folks like these, senators kyrsten sinema, and joe manchin, who get up and say no in the morning before they do anything else because it makes them feel good. tomorrow, the president is expected to return home from south carolina, where he has been on vacation, he will sign the inflation reduction act, it is a big new bill at the white house, he believes it will be his signature legislative achievement. in the coming weeks, president biden and vice president harris and members of the cabinet are all expected to hit the road to promote this thing and planning 45 different trips planned to 23 different states. in a technical sense, the political science terms this is called being on a roll. watch this space. watch this space

just a reminder, that tomorrow is the premiere of alex wagner tonight, alex's show is every tuesday through friday, at

9:00 p.m. eastern, i'm not going anywhere, i will continue to see you every monday and on other big nights going forward, but tomorrow really is the start of something new and exciting, alex wagner tonight, beginning tomorrow, 9:00 p.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. i've known donald trump for 25 years and i'm always very open about this on my show. but you know, we'll see whether that is what the country wants. maybe it's time to turn the page, if we can get someone who has all of trump's policies, who's not trump. right? >> that's fox news host lara ingraham suggesting maybe it is time for republicans to move on from the former president. it comes as trump's legal issues pile up and dominate the headlines. we'll have the latest on the fight over the affidavit that cleared