hello, i'm chris jansing live at the ceyenne decent poe plaza. this state home to yellow stoun is also the first state to give women the right to vote. and today it's also home to the most closely watched primary in the country as liz cheney, once the third ranking republican in the the house, is fighting to hold on to her job. it has been an incredible turn of events for a woman who once

seemed the political fit for this state, the reddest in the nation. where she won by nearly 50 points. but everything changed when she turned on trump. >> every american must consider this. can a president who is willing to make the choices donald trump made during the violence of january 6th ever be trusted with any position of authority in our great nation again. >> as cheney awaits word on her political future, trump and his allies are facing new threats to their legal future. three investigations moving ahead on multiple fronts in just the past 24 hours. federal prosecutors now say the search at mar-a-lago is part of an ongoing criminal investigation involving national security after warning a judge that unsealing the affidavit could compromise witnesses and undermine their case. in new york the former cfo for trump's business empire is now

expected to plead guilty to criminal charges in a case linked to tax fraud. and in georgia where investigators are looking into attempts to overturn the 2020 election trump's former attorney rudy giuliani is now a target. we're going to dig into what all that means for trump later in the show as well as whether any of it matters to voters who are going to the polls today. here in wyoming, trump wants 70% of the vote in 2020 and he's used every ounce of that political strength to oppose cheney and support her opponent harriet hageman. of those ten, four retired, three lost, just two survived. i want to bring in vaughn hilliard. he's in wilson, wyoming. bill crystal is the founding director of defending democracy together. and kristin cass per is anchor

of wyoming news now. so great to have all of you here. chris tin, thank you for coming over. vaughn, let me start where you are. you have been following this race very closely. what are the chances that the polls are so far off cheney could pull off an upset. we have really seen very little of her and heard not much from her, especially in recent days. talk to us about the state of the race. >> it would be wild. especially taking into account harriet hageman who has been driving around the state, holting little community events, getting to know the act vitts. they have also been up on the air waves. they have had your more traditional campaign whereas liz cheney has spent most of her time publicly in washington, d.c. and she and her campaign allies will contend doing the job that the voters sent her to do. that was to uphold the constitution and hold those to account. obviously, the forefront of that would be donald trump. and ultimately her decision to vice chair the select committee. there's a struggle here.

there's a reckoning for liz cheney that ultimately they had to play to democratic voter here's. and when we have been at polling locations talking to voters, democrats have been showing up changing their voter registration to vote for her. at the same time, by more than a 4 to 1 margin, republicans to democrats in the state and as an aid told me, if every democrat changed thundershower awe filluation, it still would not be enough. that's where if you have liz cheney, you have to hit at that point as to what extent were you able to effectively convince people that the fight was a just tight that you took to washington, d.c. we have not seen her on the campaign trail as much. her campaign will not comment publicly about any security issues other than it should be important to note that she does have a special capital police detail with her. the only members to get those details that had credible threats so that's why you see

liz cheney compared to harriet hageman who held a campaign rally in which a good 10,000 folks filled into an arena. the contrast between the two operations is stark. but you have harriet who has been vocal about propagating these election conspiracies and playing to donald trump incurring his favor. and largely, the favor of republican voters here in this state. >> there is this sense from the outside looking in, you live here so you tell me. that once liz cheney voted for impeachment and decided to be one of only two republicans on the january 6th committee, her political plich area was written. is that what you heard on the ground not just in the days leading up to this voting, but in the months that this has covered? >> you add her censorship by the state of wyoming too. so people, as you mentioned

earlier, voted for trump for 70% back in 2020. they are loyal to him. the policy he put in place when president, they are eatinger to vote for trump again. in this form that's harriet hageman. >> whose her campaign been like? we just heard from vaughn more about -- and we know that donald trump came to wyoming. but how is she on the campaign trail? >> her main focus is to tell voters that cheney is fore saking wyoming values. that's an interesting point to make. because on the issues, they are very similar. the big difference here is cheney is on her quest for the truth and for the peaceful transition of power. and harriet hageman is not for that. >> so bill, let's talk about the quest for the truth. this is somebody who is very politically savvy. we have seen in the way she's conducted herself on the january 6th committee. she's been around politics her whole life. it's not as if she didn't

understand what the consequences are. but as somebody who knows her, who knows that she voted 93% of the time with donald trump, she has a more conservative voting record than either gosar or jim jordan. the question is does that not matter to voters? >> we'll see tonight. maybe not so much. she took on donald trump. that was a choice. i think your point is really worth emphasizing. she made a choice. she didn't have to serve on the committee or serve as vice chair of the committee. she didn't have to vote for impeachment in the first place, but i gather from talking to people what really has ailuate nated republicans is her active role in the committee, which has been active behind the scenes. if you talk to staff, she's been the key member in shaping it and publicly, those were choices she made. she knew what she was doing and made those choices when she thought it was so important to get to the truth.

the january 6th committee has tone a heck of a job. we have learned an awful lot from that committee. and that wouldn't have learned that if liz cheney hadn't taken the role she's taken she's unprecedented for someone to put her electoral chances behind doing something she thinks is important for the country. >> i want to pick up on that because obviously, as we said, she knows what this state is. yet she made a very conscious choice to do what she did. was anybody here surprised? >> i would say not so much. in the final days leading up to today, she also had her father, former vice president liz cheney come out in support of her in a campaign ad saying a threat to democracy. some were surprised by a bold move. but i think she says that she wasn't going after that specific

vote. she just want thes to go on her quest for the truth. >> but are they watching the january 6th committee? with know the ratings were good. this is the reddest state in the country, as we said. >> not necessarily here. we found that out in our own reporting talking to voters. the university of wyoming also made that clear that not many conservative voters in wyoming were tuning in to thor hearings. they didn't think it was necessary many of them told us that. >> she's been on as kind of -- let me quote the new yorker, they called this liz cheney's cam kaz see mission. she's been focused on holding republicans' feet to the fire and keeping trump from ever holding office again. you have known her family for a very long time. is there anything that surprises you about what she's been doing? and what do you see as her mission going forward? >> i have read on some things,

but i'm still impressed. i have always liked her and been impressed by her, but i'm impressed by the last year and a half, which is unusual in american politics. that's a good headline. but it's not exactly correct. that's to say liz cheney may lose tonight, she will still be a member of congress. the january 6th committee will continue. people will be surprised by how much happens on that front in january. she will be central to that. she's going to get back to work on the committee and after that, she will have lost a congressional race. abraham lincoln lost a senate race. it happens. it doesn't mean your political career is over. >> it's always great to have you on the program, thank you. but we do want to get to this morning's breaking news that first lady jill biden has tested positive for covid. it comes after she developed cold-like symptoms last night.

the first lady, who is double vaccinated and twice boosted, spent the past week with the president vacationing in south carolina. so far he's tested negative. he got over his own bout with covid a couple weeks ago. dr. biden has been described ainlt viral and will isolate. as there's a shadow over the primary in wyoming, we're going to dig into the new reporting on investigations involving former president trump. his former personal attorney and the former trump organization's cfo. plus sarah palin looking for a major political comeback after a 14-year hiatus. we'll take you live to alaska. you're watching a special edition of "chris jansing reports," live from cheyenne, wyoming. "chris jansing reports," live from cheyenne, wyoming. who do get it bad, it may be because they have a high-risk factor - such as heart disease, diabetes, being overweight, asthma,

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back live in wyoming where election denials and alee jans to donald trump are shaping multiple races including liz cheney's. it's also animating new developments in three major investigations. now surrounding trump on all sides. in washington a judge has ordered a hearing on thursday regarding the unsealing of the mar-a-lago search warrant affidavit. lawyers have asked to keep that under seal to, quote, protect the integrity of an ongoing law enforcement investigation that impicates national security. in georgia fullton county prosecutors told the personal attorney rudy giuliani that he's

a target of their ongoing criminal probe into efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election. and in new york, the long-time cfo of the trump organization is expected to plead guilty in a new york tax evasion case marking the first criminal prosecution to stem from the long-running investigation into donald trump's businesses. let's dig into all of this with tom winter, nbc news correspondent. ashia, a former special a agent in the fbi's counterintelligence division. tom, if their filing, doj lawyers make their case across 13 pages, including the argument that the mar-a-lago search warrant affidavit contains high ly sensitive information about witnesses interviewed by the government, specific intelligentive techniques and information required by law to be kept under seal. what more do we know about what's in that dlt? >> they talk about something

rule 6e that has to do with grand juries. we have reported that case previously. it's possible they have talked to people through the grand jury. the grand jury has heard information here, but that's what that kind of signals to us as reporters. i think when you look at this document, some of it is boilerplate. we'd see if this was an action where media organizations were trying to get a search warrant and some other high profile case that doesn't involve the former president. they talked about techniques they would like to keep under wraps and details included in the search warrant, but they readily acknowledge in this court filing this is not a normal case. i think the key thing there that you read is this would provide a road map for anybody who is potentially on the hook here criminally in this ongoing investigation that this is what

investigators are looking for, what prosecutors are considering and what steps they have already taken. it would probably show them perhaps which steps they would be taking next. that's the real important thing as far as what the justice department is looking for here in denying this news organization and others the opportunity to see the search warrant affidavit. on top of that from a case precedent standpoint, it's very difficult for media organizations to win at this stage of the investigation or at this stage of the process, i should say. it's something that you can bet the justice department is really going to fight that media organizations can't get a sneak peek at search warrant affidavits. we have a tough mountain to climb here. >> so given all of that, the magistrate who signed the search warrant will decide whether the affidavit should be released one of the arguments that stood out to me is a concern that witnesses needed to be protected against death threats. what exactly will judge the

judge consider as he's looking at this and what struck you reading the doj filing? >> i think the judge will give great weight to the government's arguments here. not only because of the traditional arguments made in terms of compromising an ongoing investigation, but also because this involves national security kshs, where there's kind of a thumb on the scale when it comes to the government's interests. with regard to potential danger to witness, i would add here that we have a pattern of that already. we just need to look back to say the january 6th hearings where we know that witnesses who have been scheduled to testify have been contacted and potentially encouraged not to be completely forthcoming. so i think that when it comes to donald trump, he has done this before and there would be a special concern there. the other highlight is this is an ongoing investigation.

i said previously that it was in the air for me whether the national security goal of just retrieving these documents might be the end of it where they might not want to pursue it further, butt arguments suggest that they are continuing to investigate and that possibly criminal charges are more likely to come out of this where it's against trump or other people involved. >> let me bring in "new york times" chief white house correspondent peter baker. your paper highlighted the legal pressures on trump and his closest al lice, which have testiied with the news that rudy giuliani has been z a target in the criminal investigation into election interference in dpa. while another key trump ally was rejected in his request to avoid giving testimony before the special grand jury in atlanta. what's the feeling in trump world? these various investigations all seem to be escalating at once. >> they do. they seem to be coming at it from all sides. you have the giuliani thing, the

lindsey graham thing and the mar-a-lago search. they are putting on a brave face. they are talking about how this is good for them politically. this will motivate their base. but you have to wonder or believe that this many legal challenges all at once feel quite stressful for them. that doesn't mean it's going to lead to anything. they have had remarkable record of avoiding legal entanglements in the past despite years of investigations on various issues. donald trump has shown that he has a great skill for walking up to a line and somehow stepping over it into a way that gets him into legal jeopardy. it may not be the case anymore, but it questions whether they can pull it off again. this is a stressful moment for trump world. >> tom, you're also covering the alan weisselberg story.

he's the cfo expected to plead guilty to criminal charges. what's involved in this case and how it might affect the other investigations in new york city and new york state? >> potentially not much as far as how this will impact those investigations that we have talked about. whether it be the case that's being led by the manhattan district attorney who brought the action against alan weisselberg, the criminal charges against him and the trump organization or the civil investigation looking into some of the same matters being led by the attorney general. i think when you look at this and look at what we have reported with respect to the scope of alan weisselberg's plea agreement as well as the parameters of that, first off, we're hearing that he's going to spend five months in jail. he's likely going to plead guilty to the charges against him and he will provide testimony as to that contact in the upcoming trial against the trump organization. but we have no testimony against

his former boss, the former president of the united states, donald trump. that's important as it per pains to an oin going criminal exposure by the manhattan district attorney's office against former president trump. so when you look at this, it is a result, it is a guilty plea, it is probably not great for the trump organization, but at this point, it looks like the former president will kind of move past this at least from a criminal standpoint by the manhattan da's office. >> if i can bring it back here to wyoming for just a minute. you have covered trump for a long time. he revels in what looks at least likely that the candidate he backed is going to win. how concerned are republicans you're talking to as they look at a growing line up of election-denying candidates winning their primaries, but face democrats in places that aren't as red as wyoming? >> i think that's a good point. you have seen a democratic angle

here that these election deniers, that somewhat more flawed candidates will save the senate for them. you look at georgia, you look at pennsylvania, you look at ohio, you see a number of candidates in states that republicans should probably win who are not, in fact, dominating the way they would have expected to. you see some juggling of money in terms of buys by the national republicans editorial committee. they are very concerned that they are going to lose an opportunity to take over the senate right now that's 50/50. they are in better shape than the house. the margins have closed and the democrats are hoping the energy off of the overturning by the supreme court along with trump sort of high profile will energize their voters to come out and even despite concerns over inflation. so i think that more and more trump is becoming a figure in the midterms coming up, even

though he isn't on the ballot. >> thank you all. and right now, i'm joined by california democratic congresswoman lofgren, who is a member of the committee. there's so much happening that we haven't heard a lot publicly from the committee during recess. can you give us an update on what you have been doing and what we might hear more from your committee publicly. >> well, we're working away. it's a very active investigation. more information is coming in as we announced we will have at least a one public hearing in september. we're also working on our report. so there's a lot going on. we are all observing these events, but it's not within the committee's per view that's the doj matter.

but we're hard at work. we meet virtually often. and we're hoping to wrap this up later this juror with a full report for the public on what the truth is as well as recommendations for potential changes to procedures and potential changes to laws that will make us less vulnerable to this kind of misconduct in the future. >> the headlines certainly have shifted to the department of justice and the raid at mar-a-lago. can you give us any idea where you think your investigation, maybe even some things you're learning about the doj's investigation may intersect and have you been in touch with them about the documents that seized? >> we're doing separate investigations. we're a legislative committee. we have nothing to do with criminal prosecutions. we have not asked to see the documents. if we did, i'm sure they would

tell us no, as they should. there maybe some overlap, it's impossible to know, but at this point, we're not operating under that assumption. >> since i'm here in wyoming, i want to ask about liz cheney. it's fair to say you and liz cheney have extremely different voting records and yet you have worked together on this committee for months now. we know the price she seems to be paying here where i am in wyoming. but can you give us some insights into the sort of big picture pressure you have seen her have to deal with in washington, nationally, and what your thoughts are now about someone who is your colleague, but also your political opposite. >> i didn't know liz very well before we served together on this committee. you're right, on the policy issues, there's very little overlap. she's very, very conservative voting record, and i don't have

that voting record. but what i found as a person who is smart, hugely hard working, principled, she wants to get to the truth. she's tough, and i think she's fearless. i have really enjoyed working with her. and we know that we don't agree on choice and guns and a bunch of other things. that's not going to keep us from working together to get the truth when it comes to january 6th, the events leading up to it. so i really admire her. >> it sounds almost inact knitsic in this particular political environment to hear you talk about two people who are so different politically, but working together who have a common goal, can find ways to work together. i know you're not going to comment on the doj investigation, but you have a

lot more information that even what we heard in the january 6th hearings about some other folks who i think have had had some very tough decisions to make. that of the witness who is have colt under threats. so when you hear doj saying that they are concerned about the safety of their witnesses, what goes through your mind based on your personal experience and your conversations with so many of the witnesses that you have had both behind closed doors and in public for your committee? >> i think the doj is absolutely right. the level of political violence and threats is accelerating. and has been for some time. the former president utilized a mob knowingly. he sent them to the capitol to try to overturn the election. we have had a number of witnesses before the january 6th committee, who have had to take measures to protect themselves

from threats of murder and violence. i think it's a very serious matter. it's not the way our country should run, but right now, there's an element in the united states that thinks it's okay to threaten murder and mayhem for political point of view. and those witnesses do need to be protected, as our websites have had to be protected. >> congresswoman, we appreciate you coming on the program. thank you. >> thank you. as voters head to the polls, we're digging into the other high-stakes race on the the pal lot where the winner will hold the second most powerful office in state government. will an election denier prevail? you're watching "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc. reports," only on msnbc. and only 24-hour steroid free spray. while other allergy sprays take hours astepro starts working in 30 minutes.

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large out-of-state corporations have set their sights on california. they've written prop 27, to allow online sports betting. they tell us it will fund programs for the homeless. but read prop 27's fine print. 90% of profits go to out-of-state corporations, leaving almost nothing for the homeless. no real jobs are created here. but the promise between our state and our sovereign tribes would be broken forever. these out-of-state corporations don't care about california. but we do. stand with us.

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secretary of state. 9 trump-endorsed candidate frequently campaigns on banning ballot drop boxes he's sponsored screenings of a mute vae that climbs widespread fraud. but the current secretary of state says there's no objective evidence that 2020 election was stolen and according to a database from the conservative heritage foundation, wyoming has seen just three instances of voter fraud in 40 years. zero since 2014. i want to bring in brendon buck. he's also affiliated with americans keeping country first. a superpac that's helping vulnerable candidates who voted to um peach impeach president trump. back with me is news now anchor kristen cass per. so this wyoming race is really just one example of many across the country where on one side

you have an election deier, the other one says there's no evidence that the 2020 lerks election was somehow rigged. tell us about this race. >> as you mentioned, chuck ray is a state representative that has been endorsed by president trump. he's running on that idea that there was widespread voter fraud not just nationally, but here in wyoming too. on the other side, you have his main challenger who also campaigned on election security, but she's branding it as that wyoming's elections are free and secure. she wants to raise awareness and build that idea up for toez who don't necessarily believe that here in wyoming. >> for the people to on the ground, is there a lot of concern that the election year won't be legit? >> i think that there is. the secretary of state has said there is no fraud here in wyoming. but people still are hopping on what chuck is saying. >> so secretary of state, pretty

well keen job. the candidates in this race, though, include someone who says his legal experience is having bye-bye involved in a lawsuit and then you have chuck ray, who when questioned by a reporter about how his academic and professional resumes qualified him for the position, he responded with a statement about ballot drop boxes and harvesting. is the main qualification that matters now for secretary of state where you fall on election fraud? >> you don't pay a price with voters is what we have seen. i don't know that gop voters are thirsting to relitigate the 2020 election, but you don't pay a price for it. that's what we're seeing. you can run very far right with some ridiculous notions of what happened in 2020 and get nominated. we have seen that in state after state in states that were really important. this is a position that is

generally administrative in nature, not that high profile. but go back to 2020, and we were very close to having a few states deny certification of the election. it was only because we had really good honest people in places like georgia, or michigan, where they faced intense pressure to overturn the will of the people there. and they resisted it. you have to look at this through the context of 2024. what does it mean if you don't have people like that in these positions? we have been fighting. we helped brad get over the finish line in georgia, but there are places like in arizona, the gop nominee for secretary of state, who is an outright election denier. arizona could be ab important swing state. so these races that used to be not essential are critical now. >> a national issue so "the washington post" took a deep dive on it. among the candidates for positions that have a role in election certification process,

54 of 87 candidates are election deniers. that's just in presidential battlegrounds. so when you look ahead at 2024, what is your main concern? >> there was always this conversation about voting laws. that was a real threat to democracy. the georgia election law, the texas voting law, i think there's a lot of hyperbole spent on that. the real threat is the people that have some level of exclusive authority over the elections doing things either to throw an election one way or to simply not certify. these things will get brought out in court, but when we hand it to people who don't live in reality, that's the biggest threat to democracy. >> one of the things is are people even talking about it. the idea that people would be talking about a race for secretary of state as somebody that has covered politics for a long time is almost crazy, but you have been hearing that on the ground. people are talking about it.

>> it's evident in advertisements too. we have ads for both candidates that run a lot of money into these campaigns. people are paying attention to it. >> thank you both. great conversation. former alaska governor sarah palin is on the political comeback trail. 14 years after her unsuccessful run for the vice presidency, do her fellow alaskans want her back? we'll be live in anchorage, next. xt ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ new astepro allergy. now available without a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid free spray. while other allergy sprays take hours astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can... astepro and go. ♪ ♪

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for the all-new subway series menu. let's hear about this #7 pick, from a former #7 pick. juicy rotisserie-style chicken. you should've been #1. this isn't about the sandwich, is it chuck? it's not. the new subway series. what's your pick? back live in wyoming, liz cheney isn't the only high profile woman on the primary ballot today. in alaska sarah palin mounting a comeback. the intervening years headlined in her most often off the front pages and on the gossip pages

with reality tv shows and family gra dra ma. for more let's bring in ali vitali in anchorage for us. let's say that palin has run an unconventional campaign. she hasn't shown up for local events and refused invitations to candidate forums. she's been spending a lot of time out of alaska. and i noted that her campaign manager issued this statement. sarah palin is alaska's ambassador, and her ability to leverage existing relationships with influential leaders from all over the country is one of the main reasons she is ready to hit the ground running. well, what do alaskans seem to think about that? >> this is something that i have been talking about with voters and frankly palin's own opponents because that's what they are using against her. her national profile has a way to say she's not someone who understands alaska right now. this is a state that's proud of

the national resources and want those in washington to be representative of their independent mind sets here. when i was talking to her republican challenger yesterday, he was saying to me, referencing the fact that in his attack ads, she talks about the fact she's been on the "masked singer" and traveling across the country while he has been traveling to all of the different parts of the massive state of alaska. so it's clearly one of the things that her opponents are seizing on. in terms of the way voters are viewing this, the way they are voting on the palin race is through a new system called rank choice voting. what they are being asked to do on the ballots is when they see the three names listed, two republicans and one democrat, they are being asked to rank them. not just make one choice. they are making their number one, two and three pick. whenever the results shake out and we think it's going to be at least a week before we see any results in alaska, that's in part because of this rank choice voting system, but also because the state is huge and a lot of

people vote by mail. it takes time for the ballots to come in. once voters make their picks, whoever comes in third, that person will be eliminated first and this is where the strategy starts to come in. it depends very much who the voters rank second. that's ultimately what's going to be factored in when they choose a winner to finish out this congressman's term who passed away in march. >> you could be staying there for awhile there, ali vitali. thank you so much for that. here in wyoming, harriet hageman has gone from working on liz cheney's campaign to running against her in less than ten years. how did we get here? you're watching a special edition of "chris jansing reports," live from cheyenne, only on msnbc. n msnbc.

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so he's sending the happy couple some money. digital tools so impressive, you just can't stop banking. what would you like the power to do? your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire welcome back to wyoming. beyond the candidates involved, these races are very much about what it means to be a conservative in 2022. how did one of the most powerful house republicans, liz cheney, get to this moments? this shows how fortunes can turn. you might be surprised to hear this today. but back in 2014, harriet hageman held the leadership campaign for liz cheney's

senate. that was a very difficult party. flash forward to january 13th, 2021. a critical choice for cheney. voting to impeach then president donald trump. then the dominos started to fall. within a month, both the rnc and the republican party of wyoming voted to censure her. in may she was removed as the house gop conference chair. in september, former adviser to her campaign turned likely winner of today's primary, harriet hageman, got donald trump's stamp of approval. now the polls show cheney is far behind hageman. good to see you guys. you have both been reporting all over the state. give us your insights. what are you seeing and hearing

on the ground? >> reporter: well, today and for the last couple weeks it has been very calm, very quiet. there is a foregone conclusion here that liz cheney will lose, as you've shared in the polling just now. we're at a polling spot here. there's a line but it is a pretty nice flow here. easy moving line. one of the things that we've heard from cheney supporters is sort of a mix of resignation about her fate and a lot of hope that she'll be able to turn this into something else. be able to met a morphiasize on the national stage. >> reporter: i think resignation was the term you just said. especially when you talk about republicans intending to vote for liz cheney. we've driven across this state and i think we're following each other. we would stop the at random places around the state to talk to random voters outside of coffee shops, home depots to ask them about liz cheney. the interesting part is the

number of republican liz cheney voters who were hesitant to go on camera with us. we had this conversation in 2016 about trump voters who were scared about what their fellow republican neighbors would think. here in wyoming, it was cheney republicans who are now the ones that are on the outside here. in order to build the coalition, liz cheney could win democrats here today. but you've got to win more than a small fraction of republicans and frankly, anecdotally, i've not come across too many republican cheney voters here. >> and there aren't enough democratic voters to switch over. the math doesn't work for liz cheney. >> one of the thing i was talking to the reporter about was whether, like we saw with donald trump in 2016, there are people on the ground. republicans, who don't want to say, yeah, i'm going to vote for liz cheney again because it doesn't seem to be the thing to say. could this race possibly be closer than the polls might indicate?

what do you think? >> it's possible that the polls might be off by a little bit. it would be the biggest miss in poll in political history. if you look at the 30-point margins, we've some in the 20s. when you talk to folks on the ground, voters for her or against her. if they're saying she has a chance to win, to borrow a phrase from the next door state colorado, rocky mountain high. >> it is important when you talk to the voters. it is not just skepticism toward liz cheney for so many of them. it is the use of the words betrayal and traitor. when we talk about political rhetoric, there is a deeper layer to that here. there is an anger with liz cheney that they feel like she has not represented the state and has focused too much on donald trump in the january 6th election efforts. >> in our final 30 seconds, one from each of you. what are you watching for tonight? >> well, i'm watching to see

what liz cheney says about her future tonight. as we've seen with politicians when they lose, they typically pretend they've won. move on to the next thing. i think we're listening to specificity. will she run for president as a republican? as an independent? will she take on a that years pac leadership role? i'm not sure but i'll be listening. and how big of a loss is this? she was hoping the january 6th public hearings would give her the opportunity to convince more republicans including here in wyoming that she was on the right side of history. how big is that margin at the end of the night? >> my friends, you rock. that will do it for us this hour. make sure to join us for another special edition of chris jansing reports right here on msnbc. katy tur reports starts next. katy tur reports starts next ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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good to be with you. given the flood of developments and news coverage, you would think donald trump was still in office. he is not. but the consequences of his one-term continue to have a massive effect on our democracy. more specifically, at least in this moment on our judicial system. there are a lot of new developments and multiple investigations to catch you up on. first up, the federal judge who approved the mar-a-lago search warrant has called for a hearing onda