♪♪ right now you are looking at a live picture of the federal courthouse in west palm beach, florida. as we speak, a high-stakes hearing is getting underway that could ultimately reveal new details about the search at mar-a-lago. a decision on that could come any time now. it will pit the justice department against several news organizations that are asking a federal magistrate judge to unseal the affidavit. the justice department said that would be a grave mistake, warning if disclosed,ed affidavit would serve as a road map to the government's ongoing investigation, providing specific details in a manner that's highly likely to compromise future vase i steps. last night on this network, jim

himes, a member of the house intelligence committee, says that's not the only potential risk here. >> the affidavit contains all sorts of information, including testimony by informants, witnesses, and others that, now that we know that not just donald trump, but the republican party generally, will make threats, include threats on the lives of people, including fbi agents that are involved here, there's an awful lot of risk. >> so it would be unsealed or could be kept seal, but there is a third option for the judge. that would be releasing it with redactions. the doj says if they redact everything they need to, the documents will essentially be worthless. bottom line, that affidavit could answer the why behind this search. apparently investigators are figuring that out. two law enforcement officials tell nbc news, they're still going through material, just as

they have been for the past week and a half, trying to figure out what is and what is not relevant to their investigation. those aren't the only documents masse headlines. "new york times" says federal prosecutors looking into last year's insurrection have issued a grand jury subpoena to the national archives asking for, quote, all materials, in whatever form that the archives have sent to the january 6th committee. the times says the subpoena is following the doj's lead, but also the department believes a crime may exist in those documents. cal perry is outside the courthouse in florida, and jackie is an msnbc contributor. and frank figliuzzi is here, an msnbc national security analyst.

cal, let's start where we are right now, explain what's going on in that courtroom. as you said, he could postpone it, or rule at a later date. we don't know on that front. we know that journalists have been let in the courtroom and allowed to keep their phones, which is how i can tell you five attorneys have arrived, three representing the group of media organizations, two representing judicial watch. we expect to hear from one of the lawyers representing this group of media organizations, includes nubs news. we expect to hear from a lawyer from judicial watch. we will then hear from the department of justice. the department of justice cities they will impede their investigation, not only does it put witnesses in jeopardy, but could chill further witnesses. they don't want to give away the game plan. what you will hear from the media is the public has an interesting to this document,

because, quote, of the historically unpressed execution of a search warrant with regard to a former president. this is with the filing from the media. also it quotes not since the nixon administration wielded its power to retreat documents from a former president in such a fashion this roped-off area is where the law enforcement has put aside for protests or gatherings. the judge has received death threats. our local affiliate has done some pretty stunning reporting on this. the palm beach guards police department saying they're aware of the threats against judge reinhardt. they are working with their federal law enforcement partners, is probably why you see a high amount of law

enforcement presence here on the ground outside the federal courthouse. >> without a doubt, cal. you talked about the reports coming from within the courthouse, including one we just got that the trump attorney is in the courtroom. they will not be making arguments, it's important to point out. unseal, don't unseal, or maybe redact. what kinds of things is the judge going to look at? what ultimately are you looking to see here? >> i'm going to go out on a limb and say there's zero chance the judge will rule that the full affidavit gets unsealed. there's national security interests, criminal interests, concerns about witnesses. it's just unheard of. there's no precedent for that. the only thing that i think the news organizations could hope for is taking up the footnote where, as you noted, chris, the

government said they thought about a redacted version, but they thought it would not be -- it would be so redacted it wouldn't be helpful. that's all they said. i could see the court saying, i want the government to give me what they would propose to redact, because i need to see myself if that's really true, that there's nothing that could be released here. i think that's the most that could happen. if that is what the judge rules, it's going to take some time, because then the government will get time to submit that, the court will assess it, and then hear from the government about why it couldn't go forward and release that. i think that's the most that could happen eventually out of this hearing. >> as we look at what he's weighing, andrew, obviously on one side is the idea of protecting the investigation. the other is erving the public interest. there's a lot of levels to that, but at least in part it's trying to keep the country from deinvolving into violence 679

how do you balance that? is it always going to lean toward the doj? >> um, in this case, it will. the court is going to look to precedent. so the precedent here is really lopsided. i hear you about the public interest here, but that's not really going to be paramount. i mean, eventually if someone is charged, this document will see the light of day. even then, probably, in a redacted form, because there's no way that the classified information that is highly likely in this affidavit is going to be released publicly. so, i hear you, but those kinds of interests that the news organizations have are not going to outweigh the significant national security criminal interests and witness protection issue. one final thing, when i find interesting, the former

president has publicly said he wants the names of witnesses, but sort of unusually, he actually hasn't filed any papers in court. his lawyers aren't going to actually be heard, so there does appear to be more of a press stunt than seriously something they want the court to consider. >> i suppose, frank, you could also say if there's going to be violence, and we're hearing from cal there are concerns about the judge, it may not matter one way or another. people will be unhappy if they see what's in it. there are people who are unhappy just bay it happened, right? we've seen the threats that have been made, real and verbal, against the fbi. tell me your thoughts on this today. >> well, i agree with andrew we're unlikely to see any kind of helpful release of the affidavit. here's why. there's a real danger here to human life, not only damage to what doj has already called an

ongoing criminal investigation, and references to witnesses, past and future, but look, there appears tore cooperators in this case. don't forget doj dried a subpoena, it doesn't work. the trump attorneys filed a document saying we gave you everything, that was wrong. something prompted them to go into a warrant. that really smells a lot like cooperating witnesses. we have heard the security footage outside the storage room really alarmed the doj. remember, that's in the affidavit. it establishing probable cause for the three offenses asserted in the warrant. so, for example, we would learn things like, well, how many witnesses? when did you talk to them? that would identify human beings who would be at risk with regard to the charge of falsifying or

destroying documents, that obstruction-like charge in the warrant, we would learn in that each why they think something has been falsified. has somebody marked out something? did the president instruct people to destroy documents or gin you want a document? what would a redacted version? black magic marker after black magic marker, i don't think it would be helpful. >> job write kristina bobb is in there, she won't participate in any of the arguments, but there's publicly trump saying he's very happy with his legal team. your reporting is something else. tell us what you found out? >> yeah, i think we should reinforce what andrew pointed out, despise trump's legal team being in the courthouse, they have not submitted any formal

document to the court. in the interests of transparency, as the president hayes previously said. in the lead-up, we have reported that trump's current legal team was psyching prosecutors, defenders, lawyers with more experience. they reached out to multiple different lawyers, some quite prominent ones in the republican party, who all declined to join the case. we also had been told this was a long-standing search that's preceded this spilling into public view, and had multiple voices telling us in the case of such a serious criminal matter, that it's important the former president have legal representation with people that have more experience, that are suited to this issue of the former isn't potential being

charged criminally with mishandling classified information. that being said, there are a few members of his team who do have extension of prosecutorial high-level experience, like john trustee, edward corcoran, but there is doubling concern that people like edward corcoran, who may have been involved in the previous attestations, might ultimately embroil him in some legal trouble that he would potentially have to recuse himself from representing the president. we're keeping our finners on the pulse of these things, a this unfolds in palm beach. >> you know, andrew, what the former president said, these aren't classified, i declassified everything i took out of the oval, i marked them declassified. they posted this memorandum

earlier, that shows to show he did declassify documents, but does that speak at all to what we're talking about today? >> so, i think that document hurts the president, if i were his counsel, i'm not sure i would have advised to release that, and the reason i say that, is, one, whether something is classified or declassified is actually irrelevant to the statutes that were listed in the search warrant. there are other statutes that could be charged as well, where it's irrelevant that that it's classified or not. second, it's not clear that there's a complete overlap. indeed, it's highly unlikely that the only documents that were found in mar-a-lago with classification marks were the hurricane crossfire documents, to which there's a clear set of documents that the department of

justice and the fbi had. the third problem is, that document that the former president posted, shows that the president knows exactly how to declassify documents in the formal, correct process, but that is not what kash patel and others have been saying. they said there's a standing order where documents miraculously got declassified, because you moved them from one room to another room in the white house. you can tell, the way i phrased that, i and many other are skeptical of that factual proposition, but that memo shows that the president institute exactly how to do this in the correct fashion. >> as he was talking about that, frank, i saw you nodding and smiling. but let me ask about what's happening with the seized

materials. and mark zaide talked about the fbi's process going there them on "morning joe." let me play what he said. >> i've had the fbi, when they have seized clients' records take months. i think i still have a client that haven't gotten files back in six or eight years. that's not going to happen in a high-profile case such as the president of the united states. >> frank, why does it take that long? obviously they know there's a red-hot spotlight on what they're doing right now. >> when it comes to classified documents, or even just government documents, right, when talking about the lack of relevant, they belong to the u.s. government. if the question is how long does trump get the documents back,

the answer is maybe never. if he ever has a library or museum, the national archives decides what's goes in there. they belong to the united states government, regardless of classification level. if a filler team looks at things a. as they allegedly did with the passports, they can go back, they're not relevant, not necessarily the government's, that will go back, but what we're talking about here are things that belong to the government. there's a painstaking, long process involving tracking back in history where those documents came from, whether they originated in the u.s. government, allied governments that may have provided intel to us, and untilly tssci documents, there's specific markings about who touch them, where they came from. there's a log kept on t.s. documents. i would have to sign at my desk,

time, date, time i touched it, gave it to the curious and then done. request the security cameras outside the storage room, which trump has provided apparently, when people went in, what are their faces, who are those people? did a cleaning person go into the storage room? go interview that person. who are all the visitors to the residence at mar-a-lago. there were pilgrimages after january, where everybody appeared their brother went down to say hello to the former president. all of that has to be cross-referenced, who saw it and who shouldn't have. >> we could take about this the whole hour. fascinating conversation. thank you very much. cal, we'll come back to you outside the courthouse if you get any updates. there's another important hearing we're following. allen weisselberg facing a judge in new york today with big legal implications for the former

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comcast business. powering possibilities. we are looking at a live shot of the florida courthouse, where at any moment, a judge could decide to unseal the mar-a-lago search warrant affidavit. we have a team of people on site, and we'll have the decision as soon as we learn it. in another courthouse 1200 miles away in new york city, trump

organization cfo allen weisselberg atmid the the company had an off-the-book scheme to avoid -- this is only about the organization. the 75-year-old has agreed to do five months in jail. the plea also requires him to testify truthfully about illicit business practices at the trump organization during a trial schedule for this fall. and he must repay nearly $2 million. for more, we're joined by tom winter at the courthouse. with me in studio shan wu. so tom, tell us what happened this morning. >> it really closes a bit of a chapter for him, and yet opening another one of going from staunch defendant to something

who admilted his guilt. that off-the-books payment scheme enabled him to get payments for multiple cars he had, an apartment in new york city, a garage, other cash benefits it's not necessarily illegal for him to have received those things from the trump organization. it will illegal for him not to pay the taxes for that compensation and for the trump organization not to present the proper filings for it. >> that's what jammed him up here. he has a five-month sentence for him at rikers island. he will go there after a late october trial involves the trump oarization, part of the same indictment, so that's coming up

first. he has to provide truthful testimony to that no indicate that he plans to tern guns the former president personally. but. >> this is a big win for weisselberg's defense team, and really a loss for the d.a. it's a sweetheart deal for him, very little time. i'm not putting down the fact that a 75-year-old going to jail for any amount of time is not easy, but given the fact he was facing 15 years, this is a slap on the wrist so unless the

theory he was running rogue, it's inexplicable that the path doesn't lead to trump. >> was there a case where you imagine this could tonight what they could get? it's a case where the prosecutors blinked. they had a lot of leverage. they could have demanded they go to trial. white-collar cases is all about the paper documents. you don't have a great defense to say i got the income, but i didn't pay the taxes. he's the cfo. he's not a very simplistic, unsophisticated person. they blinked if he's willing to testify about the business, what are the implications for trump?

>> the man is the brand, the brand is the man, effectively. you're right. it's a bit easy to separate trump's wealth from his business. we don't know his current financial conditions, but we know from the filings if the trump organization was tut down today, donald trump would still have some wealth, granted not to the degree he has now. hoe shifted away from owning the print -- to licensing his name and brand.

since he's leave the white house, and no former president, but he was able to accumulate cash wealth that way as a means of driving his own pockets, as well as to the benefit of his corporation you mentioned he likely knew, if not everything, most things that were going on in a plea deal, where does cooperation end? where does a cooperation agreement end? >> they pass faxed a very narrow agreement. he's basically agreeing to tell the truth, add admitting, so if new charges arise, he could easily take the fifth amendment,

and basically insulate the organization and insulate trump from doing that, this is not what we typically think of as a cooperation agreement and investigators going through books, explainings everything. it's narrowly con. >> thank you both. we appreciate your statements. the man who stabbed salman rushdie was indicted. he appeared for his arraignment rushdie is still recovering from his injuries in a pennsylvania hospital. we are watching the courthouse in west palm beach, where at any moment a judge could unseal an

affidavit. it's a shocking letter from the senator about open jobs tess agency that's causing some controversy. we'll tell you all about it. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. jansing reports" only on msnbc what do you want to leave behind? that's your why. it's your purpose, and we will work with you every step of the way to achieve it. ♪ and we will work with you every step of the way [dog barks] [dog panting] [dogs barking] [dogs growling] [dogs whimpering] (vo) the subaru crosstrek. dog tested. dog approved. [dog barks]

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while we're still waiting for work out of the court in west palm beach, florida, we did get notice that the judge has said he will release some of the procedure filings currently under seal now. these are more sun interesting documents related to the warrant. the doj said they did not oppose them to be released republicans are now increasing their rhetoric, against the i.r.s., how $80 billion slated for the agency will be spent. take a listen to what a few of them are saying. >> those i.r.s. agents are designed to come after you, now

the big corporations and billionaires. >> they're going to go after the mom-and-pop, the independent contractor, the uber describe, and they are going to focus on basically so the country that don't support what the regime is trying to do. >> all of these leading to where rick scott urged, but i want to bring in capitol hill correspondent samhel -- will there be super-police.

>> reporter: no, them not not be. that's what rick scott did in this rather extraordinarily. one of first thing they would do if they have control, would defund those positions. a couple problems, even if republicans do capture control of the congress, they will not have -- president biden will still have the veto pen. the premise of this is unsubstantiated at best, there's a may 2021 treasury report that it suggests they could add 87,000 employees over at decade, but they would be replacing

exists employees, and not all of them would be in enforcement so that picture is not backed by the facts. the biden administration has gone to great lengths to point out they will only use these resources to add i the taxes of wealthy americans who are not paying -- who are using sophisticated means to avoid taxes at this point. the republicans argument is partly based on the fact this is their best case to make this, given that other aspects to negotiate prices -- are popular. >> it's not like the i.r. is is the most popular organization. veg said that we've seen this playbook to stir up resentment

against an government agency. is it sticking in. >> it's sticking everywhere. it's being inflated with the search of mar-a-lago even though it's a completely different agency, obviously. it's being inflated to one thing. it's the completion of the infowars-ification of this party. the idea that the i.r.s. -- poses a front for law enforcement, come and take your guns, all of your assets. militia is on tiktok trying to recruit people, but saying their standard rhetoric about come and take it, they're pointing it toward the i.r.s. not any law enforcement agency. they thinks this is part of a much larger plan. by the way, it's different from ten years ago, or even seven years ago.

there was a conspiracy called jade helm, where the idea was barack obama was going to use the facade of a military exercise in texas to occupy texas and never leave power. ted cruz called the pentagon and said there's nothing to worry about it, but now ted cruz is all up in this i.r.s. fearmongering thing. the party has leaned closer and closer to conspirational rhetoric, because they realize it's a winner. >> both great reporting, as usual. thank you very much. it's a huge number. $650.5 million, but that's what a judge told them to pay in the deadly opioid crisis, in just two counties in ohio. that combined fine is to be paid out over the next 15 years after the companies were found liable last november for over-supplying pills that ended up on the black market. thwarting donald trump.

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didn't take long. liz cheney is already moving on. after her nearly 40-point defeat, she shifted the rest of a company war chest into a new entity, the great task, challenges a phrase from lincoln's gegettysburg address. how does he go up against the bug consult and personality. eugene, always great to see you. we know wyoming is very red. i was there for a couple days, i

talked to voters at the hageman party. does she have a secret plan that nobody else has tried before against donald trump? >> if she is a secret plan, it's super-secret, and i can't imagine what it is. we know where the republican party is now, if you look at the primaries we have seen so far, he hasn't won every single race. he has won most of them with his preferred candidates. the members of congress, the republicans who dared to vote for impeachment or to vote for conviction, with the exception of senator murkowski, who did very well in alaska, having voted to impeach him, a second impeachment. nonetheless, the others, i think it's, whats eight out of ten are

gone. >> yeah. >> donald trump is getting control of the republican party right now. i don't see how liz cheney cracks that. folks like cheney, he writes give up the delusion that the republicans have somehow temporarily lost their way. maybe this is bigger than whether liz cheney can save the republican party, but if you're talking about saving the party of reagan and the bushes, is it dead already? >> i don't think the party of reagan and the bushes really exists right now. if it does, it's kind of in exile. those people are basically independents now, or the republicans without much of a voice in the republican party, it's a much more populist republican party now. this is not your father's republican party. it's not your republican party of just a few years ago before

donald trump came in and activated and energized the populist revolution that i suspect was already going on inside the party. it's not all trump. he was a catalyst, but it had to be there before he got there. >> eugene robinson, always great to talk with us. thank you for being on the program. you've heard john fetterman, dr. oz, herschel walker, but what about sherry beasley? msnbc went on the trail with her, to learn why she thinking she can flip a seat from red to blue. e can flip a seat from red blue new astepro allergy. no allergy spray is faster. with the speed of astepro, almost nothing can slow you down. because astepro starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. and astepro is the first

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versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ breaking news. an update on the hearing to unseal the affidavit that led to the search of mar-a-lago. let's go to cal perry. what's new, cal? >> reporter: this is coming from our producer who is in the courtroom right now. she writes that the d.o.j. started talking to the judge, it was very conversation to begin with. that's when we heard there would be some release of procedural documents, not the exciting bit.

then the media took over, the group of media organizations represented by their attorney took over and made their arguments saying this was in the public interest as we had sort of seen in the previous court filings that the extraordinary nature of what had happened made it necessary for the government to release this affidavit. they said you can't see anything in the dark, that they needed to shine a light on this. now d.o.j. is making their case. they're calling -- he said, quote, substantial grand jury information in a unique case with national security overtones. he then said this is a volatile situation with respect to the particular search across the political spectrum. that is a mild way, chris, of saying that this search has set

off a lot of opinions, least of all in trump world, least off all with d.o.j. and the media. d.o.j. we understand is going to have the last word in these court proceedings. the media lawyers may speak up one more time but d.o.j. is going to have the final word. a reminder, this judge is a former federal prosecutor. it's like live he will listen to these arguments of national security. we don't know what we don't know but the department of justice is saying and this probably going to be one of the headlines that this investigation is, quote, in the early stages, chris. >> cal perry, thank you. meanwhile, new poling in the critical senate race and it show as dead heat. millions continue to pour into a race you may not have heard much about but that could be make or break to determine which party runs the u.s. senate.

antonia hylton went to north carolina to show us what cheri beasley is doing to try to become the state's first black senator. >> reporter: former state supreme court justice cheri beasley has to be a different democrat to win the state in north carolina, one that spends as much time in rural counties as they do in urban centers. >> certainly industries and corporations are coming to north carolina. they tend to go to raleigh and charlotte but they miss out on the talent in our rural community. >> reporter: she lost her last statewide vote by just 401 votes as hundreds of rural voters of color sat out the election. >> do politicians come that often? >> no, no. >> reporter: what do you think is at stake right now? >> again, being a rural county, just getting people out to vote. >> reporter: beasley is in a

competitive race with republican congressman ted bud, giving her a shot to become the first black senator in the state. her race also seen as one of the democrats' rare chances to pick up a senate seat. >> with the frustrations that some voters have with the biden administration over the economy and inflation, has the president hurt your chances here? >> you know, i certainly understand why there are people who are frustrated and who are disappointed in what's happening in washington. they expect more and they deserve more. >> reporter: beasley's republican opponent meantime happy to hammer the president. >> every single count is now a border county because of joe biden's policy. >> and critiquing her judicial record when meeting were police groups. >> i've got an opponent right now, she may not admit it. she's going to try to run as a moderate. >> reporter: it was abortion rights driving the conversation. >> it is a lot of contradiction to on the one hand protect

fundamental freedoms and on the other hand support women who want to have their babies. >> reporter: has it angered people, changed some voters' minds? >> i think so. i think people, as far as women, they want to have control and make decisions that's going to benefit their bodies and not to be told what to do. >> reporter: with less than three months until the election, beasley is betting on rural voters. she needs them and they need someone who won't forget them once in washington. >> it felt good here today, right? it felt good here in anson county and richmond county and no one should feel discounted. no one should feel a sense of disengagement. >> and antonia is here with us. i was looking into some of the polls and there's some analysis that some of this shift towards beasley is about abortion. is that what you heard on the ground? >> absolutely. and in fact, at the two stops

that we followed her to, the first questions out of voters' mouths were about abortion. a lot of the voters i sat do you down with myself, it was top of mind with them. i spent a lot of time in rural north carolina talking to voters who didn't vote in the 2020 election. many of them were telling me back in the winter and the spring not sure anything's going to get me out to vote right now, i don't trust either party and now abortion is bringing a lot of people to the events and a lot of them to the table. and beasley told me that even young voters are coming out and saying they're paying more attention to her campaign because of this. >> one of the things we know that if people show up, they're more invested and more likely to vote. fascinating stuff. thank you, antonia. we appreciate it. katy tur will have much more on the mar-a-lago decision. we are waiting for the judge's

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good to be with you. i'm katy tur. it could be a pretty big day and it's all up to one man. federal magistrate judge bruce reinhart is hearing arguments on whether to unseal the affidavit behind the search of mar-a-lago. a coalition of news organizations, including this one, are asking him to do it. the department of justice is asking him not to do it. interestingly donald trump, who said on his social media site that he also wanted the affidavit released, is not making a formal request for it. one of his lawyers is in the courtroom today, but just to watch. team trump isn't arguing or filing anything. so how will judge reinhart rule? if fast is precedent, it is almost certain he will side with the d.o.j. and keep the affidavit under seal. an