as always, thank you so much for watching the katie phang show. i am back tomorrow morning at 7 am eastern live. all she starts right now. >> good morning, it is saturday, august 20th. i am ali velshi. we are 80 days away from one of the most consequential midterm elections in recent memory. even though donald trump will not be on any ballot this year, his mark is everywhere. his big lie has been a core value of today's republican party. some of the insurrectionists who he's summoned to the capitol on january 6th are among this year's candidates for office. after fbi agents retrieved

boxes of classified documents from mar-a-lago almost two weeks ago, even more republicans have rallied to his side. his vice grip on the party seem to be confirmed this past week. it is the results of one of the highest profile republican races of this entire cycle. on tuesday, congresswoman liz cheney, the vice chair of the january six committee, the republican party's top critic of the twice impeached ex president lost her reelection bid for wyoming's lone seat in the house of representatives. it was a blowout. she has been in office since 2017. during wyoming's last republican primary in 2020, she won handedly. back then, she got more than 70% of the vote. this time around, she did not even crack 30%. even with record turnout. more people cassoday vote for her opponent, harriet hagman then the ones who participated in the entire primary or two years ago in 2020.

she knows perfectly well what she lost. her integrity and vowed to uphold democracy would not allow her to have it any other way. >> two years ago, i won this primary with 73% of the vote. i could easily have done the stay again. the pathway is clear. it would not require that i go along with donald trump's lie about the 2020 election. it would have required that i enabled his ongoing efforts to unravel our democratic system. i would've had to attack the foundations of our republic. that was a path that i could and would not take. >> she made a choice a few others in her own party have been willing to make. she has been ousted, just like the nine other gop representatives who voted to impeach donald trump for his role in the january 6th insurrection. liz cheney and three other representatives from that group have lost their primaries. four others have opted to

retire, that includes congressman adam kissinger. that is the other republican member of the january six committee. the remaining two representatives, dan newhouse of washington state, david of california, they competed in non partisan primaries. they garnered enough votes to move on to the general election. one source told nbc news that donald trump was, quote, over the moon about liz cheney's loss. the feud does not end here. in fact, liz cheney is reportedly thinking about and made references to a 2024 presidential run. she said that she will, quote, do whatever it takes to ensure that donald trump is never again anywhere near the oval office. those are her words. she may not be the only one already planning for 2024. there is a grim prospect of another potential trump presidency. during a speech in new hampshire on wednesday, trump's former vice president, mike pence, he tees that he may soon be spending more time in the state. it is a frequent stock for

candidates or casting a presidential waters. he also told kyle that he would consider testifying before the january six committee. he said, quote, the american people have a right to know what happened, and quote. pence would be in a unique position to tell the country about the role that he had to take on to restore order and preserve the law on the capitol on that date, january 6th. there's payoff with the new insights about the former presidents mindset with the days leading up to january six. as the midterms approach, there are signs for the gop that not everything that trump touches turns to gold. candidates who trump has endorsed in some key senate races may now actually be liabilities for the larger republican party. that is a reality that the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell acknowledged on thursday. >> there is probably a greater likelihood in the senate race. senate races are just

different. they are statewide. the candidate quality has a lot to do with the outcome. right now, we have a 50/50 senate. we have a 50/50 country. when all of this is said and done, we are likely to have an extremely close senate. our side up slightly, or their side up slightly. >> there is a bit of word salad in there. by candidate quality, mcconnell is referring to the several subpar political newcomer that have been backed by donald trump. they are sinking the gop's hopes of taking control of that evenly divided 50/50 senate. that includes the former tv host, doctor mehmet oz in pennsylvania. there's the former football great, herschel walker in georgia. there is jeanne vance in ohio, blake masters in arizona. all of them are legging or underperforming in the polling. there are several warning signs for incumbent publican senator ron johnson of wisconsin. he is also endorsed by donald

trump. he is now trailing his brand-new democratic opponent, the lieutenant governor of wisconsin, been barnes. i spoke with barnes last night. he explained why he has a good shot to win this race. >> i will tell you that the choice is simple, we are leading with our values. we are leading with our vision. on the other hand, you have ron johnson. he gets further and further out of touch from reality. he is for that of touch from the reason he was elected to serve. he's leaving people behind. it is social security, medicare -- . . >>,. >> we have more on those investigations later in the show. let's dig into the politics of the past week. we'll look at what it means for the future the gop. joining me this morning, evan mcmullin. back in 2016, he launched a

campaign as an independent. he took aim at donald trump retaking the presidency. trump eventually won. mcmullen was able to siphon away as much as 20% of the vote in his home state of utah. this year, he is on the ballot again. he is running as an independent candidate for the united states senate against the republican incumbent, mike lee. he has received trumps endorsement. also joining us this morning, olivia -- she has previously served as a senior adviser to former private vice president mike pence. she is the chief political strategist for the new america movement. welcome to both of you. thank you for being with us. so important to have you here. you have taken a position, you have years experience that you have had in the past. we have taken this position to try and help prepare democracy. in some cases, even, maybe not in republican circles, but amongst people who consider themselves republicans or conservatives, tell me how that

is playing out right now in the context of everything i've just told my viewers. there is the firestorm around the election denial. there is donald trump's investigations. how is it playing out to be independent conservative candidates in utah? >> i think that utah is a unique stay. the republican party, although it is going down this far right path, it still includes a large plurality of principled republicans. and the recent republican primary for senate, senator lee competed against some of the more principal challengers. he won. yes, that's true. almost 40% of you talk republicans voted to replace him. that is a unique situation. it is not enough votes to change the direction of the republican party here in utah. we do still have a sizable number of principled republicans. my message to the whole country is that neither principled

republicans, democrats, or independents have the votes on their own to defend the american republic from the threat of a far-right anti-democracy movement. that is what we increasingly see around the country. we have to be together. that is why i am running as an independent. we are building a coalition of the country over party republicans. these are democrats and independents. that is why this is a close race. the majority of utah wants to stand up to the threat to our republic. they want to move our country forward. they want to solve problems like health care. we can only do that together. >> you have a similar view. you are also trying to find republicans and conservatives who are principled. they do want to move forward. they perhaps have these debates about policy issues that we are not really having today. we are talking about elections and election denial. we are talking about election fraud. you have been out this for a while as well.

do you feel more motivated? do you feel like you are meeting with any degree of success? >> look, the struggle is real. it is a very important and challenging time right now. the republican party has chosen to embrace election deniers and all of these conspiracy theory people's. they are a bunch of bozos. they are the candidates they want to run. a lot of it is just to provide the platform. i think that is very unfortunate. it gave me hope to hear mitch mcconnell actually admit out loud this week that the senate was in trouble. that was a small crack. he actually says the quiet part out loud. most of us have known that mitch mcconnell has been concerned about the direction that this is going in. they know that this is going to really hurt the republican party overall. we are seeing it play out. >> evan, you challenge donald trump in the past. you did so directly.

you are now challenging a trump backed candidate. there are others doing similar things in this country. by the way, liz cheney is talked about doing something that you did. she is running for president. she has implied that she might. mike pence seems to be talking the language of someone who is going to run for president. what is your thought on that? what is your advice to either of them if they were interested? >> i do think that, right now, it is donald trump's party. eric trump says the other day on television that it is not the first time we have heard it. this is no longer the republican party. this is trump's party. i think that is increasingly true. i think that there are some fights that are worth having, even when the prospects for electoral success are slim. i do not know what the circumstances will be by the time we get to the next cycle. things will change quickly. maybe the losses of this cycle, if they come from the far-right, they could inspire change in the republican party.

it seems unlikely well it will happen that quickly. it could. either way, republicans and conservatives should consent. . . . . ,, -- we have a candidate quality problem. that might lead to some losses. those losses will create a new opportunity for republican leaders. current leaders can either change the course of their approach to guarding the party or it will lead to a change in leadership. eventually those boss as well. that is also a part of the process, as a part of the system. it could lead to a renewal of the republican party. i do not think it is in the cards anytime very soon. that does not mean that we can hope for it, fight for it. i would like to see people like

adam kissinger, liz cheney, mitt romney. others can continue to fight. i know that i certainly will. it is critically important. i certainl>> yeah, you both havy similar view about the fact that this is not going to happen overnight. there are things that do happen, olivia, that i would think would be opportunities to be turning points. for example, there is the search warrant at mar-a-lago. it is mostly donald trump's wild response to it. ever since then, there were a whole lot of hysterics out of members of the republican party. they did not seem to be a properly placed at the time. listen to some of these, tell me what you think. >> this is the deep states revenge. >> what they have been doing to president trump's political persecution. >> we are better off to think of these people as wolf's. they are wolves who want to eat you. these are wolves who want to dominate. >> the way our federal government has gone on, this is what we thought about the gestapo. >> this is gestapo staff. it will not stand. >> it is gestapo tactics.

>> the fbi, right now, is the gestapo. the fbi is the gestapo. >> this is some third world staff right here. this is some third world staff. >> people went a little bit more silent once they found a little bit more information about why that search warrant was about. that is how fast it happened. it is caused somebody to go and try to shoot up an fbi office in cincinnati. are we going to get past this? are we going to get to a point where somebody says, hey, maybe donald trump did something wrong and should be investigated by mainstream republicans? well, maybe, but not soon enough. look, it may have gone silent now, but the damage is done. we are seeing the threats against law enforcement across the country. look, we are still seeing a lot of the rhetoric. these things that they are saying, we are seeing it from candidates who just got in trouble. there is that guy down in

florida who is calling for attacks. he was saying he was going to make it illegal to shoot people. this is not okay. the problem is that they are fundraising off of it. i don't think that they are changing -- they fund-raise a lot in the past week or so. it was off of targeting the fbi. they are targeting law enforcement. this is just plain awful. look, for someone like me and evan who also served a national security, it is appalling. it is getting old to be called a thief state repeatedly. it is over and over. all of these people, all we have done is serve our country. i will remind republicans again and again that these people who serve our voters. we all vote. we are all watching what is happening here. if you think that this is a winning proposition by attacking fbi agents and putting targets on their backs, we were just trying to do their jobs. that is what they are trying to do. i think that you are on the losing end of this.

well thank you both of you and thanks for that reminder that you both have been public servants. which i graham think it was a really cool thing, that i learned you are both members of the deep state. olivia, troy's national security expert and evidence of former cia officer undercover cia. thank you to both of you for everything you're doing, continue to keep in touch and have a really important discussion about the future of the republican party and democracy itself. we will continue to dig into every last detail of the investigations under the former president, and his anti-democratic minions. how this all affect the upcoming midterms in the show. plus, the latest on the war in ukraine. we are almost at the six month mark since russia launched its unprovoked invasion. i will discuss the current situation with eta, a member of ukraine's parliament with the whom i spoke during my time in ukraine last spring. >> which is unimaginable that this is taking place somewhere where used to drive every

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members of the isis terror group who has convicted of torturing and killing several western nationals is going to sandra's face life in prison. british national, el chaffee elsheikh was given a flight sentences by upfront will judge on friday. one for each count for which he was convicted. back in april, elsheikh was convicted of taking two dozen people kept drip from parts of iraq and syria between 2012 into 90 15. prosecutors say his accomplice is tortured and eventually murdered several of their captives. including americans, james foley, kayla mueller, steven and peter castillo. of those for americans, the

three had their murders which is death by beheading videotaped and posted online. according to fellow captives, mueller was forced into slavery where she was sexually assaulted multiple times. by the isis leader -- and then ultimately killed. after his arrest, i'll shake confessed to his role in the hostage taking screen but only acknowledge that he collected email addresses and provided proof of life to the hostages families. in order to obtain ransoms. he was a part of a group of four jihadist two arrays in britain and defected to the middle east. they became known as the ice has beetles because of the british accent. which could be heard in the gruesome videos that they posted. yesterday sentencing was especially pointed from one victims family in particular as was the eighth anniversary of the day of james foley's death. as she remembered her son and the other four victims, foley's mother diane said that the family is now feel as though they have a bit of justice. >> he's brave american saw the suffering of the syrian people

and decided to help. whether it was by providing humanitarian aid or by telling the world about the tragic syrian crisis. let the sentencing make clear to all who dared to kidnap, torture or kill every american citizen abroad. that u.s. justice will find you. wherever you are. -- >> peter kasich and mueller were humanitarian aid workers. and yes all four of them were incredibly brave. meanwhile here at nbc news, it's impossible to think of the middle east or any war zone in the world and not think of our chief foreign correspondent, richard engel. unfortunately, he shared some sad news with the world this week. he announced his young son henry has passed away after a fight a public battle with red symptom. rett syndrome is a developmental disorder, richard wrote that he had the softest

and louis eyes, and easy smile and a contagious giggle. we always surrounded him with love and he returned it. and so much more. >> our thoughts with richard and his family during this extremely tough time. family during this extremely tough time extremely tough time ficiency, with leading ultra-capacity 5g coverage. t-mobile for business has 5g that's ready right now. you're pretty particular about keeping a healthy body. what goes on it. usually. and in it. mostly. here to meet those high standards is the walgreens health and wellness brand. over 2000 high quality products. rigorously tested by us. real world tested by you. and delivered to your door in as little as one hour. one of the cell last remaining

safe havens has taken a giant step back where. they have reinstated a law that bans abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy. the law allows exceptions for urgent medical emergencies. we have discussed that that in itself is a question. back in 2019, a district judge stop the law from being in forest. he declared that the ban was unconstitutional based on supreme court president. the judge now says that the supreme court decision to overturn roe v. wade canceled out the legal foundation -- just over state lines in south

carolina, the supreme court temporarily blocked a near total abortion ban that would make it illegal for patients to terminate a pregnancy after the six week mark. again, we have discussed this. everybody in the world now knows that six weeks is the point at which many women don't even know they are pregnant. that might sound like something to celebrate. there are other antiabortion forces at play in south carolina. the court's decision is only temporary. legal challenges are moving forward. well that is happening, some state lawmakers are attempting to pass a more restrictive ban. specifically when it comes to exceptions to abortion. one of those proposed bills does not include exceptions for pregnancies that were caused by rape or incest. joining me now is the democratic state representative, spencer wetmore from south carolina. representative has been a staunch opponent of south carolina's restrictive abortion laws. she argues that without exceptions for rape and incest, the state is putting the physical and mental health of a

patient at risk. representative wetmore, good to see you. thank you for being with us. where are you in this fight? it is hard to sort of believe the draconian nature of the bills that are being proposed. they are. you are fighting back against them. where does this fight stand? >> yeah. so, you know, it sounds like these bills should jobs be proposals for some range size of the republican party. they are not. this proposal without rape and incest has passed out of the judiciary committee. all of the republicans were voting in favor of it. we did have some republican colleagues abstain from voting until they could get more information. this bill is going to the house floor right now. >> in fact, we heard from the state representative neil collins about maybe rethinking this. let's listen to what he said. i want to get your take on the other side.

>> that weighs on me. i voted for that bill. these are affecting people. we are having a meeting about this. it took that whole week. i did not sleep. >> what we do matters. >> he sounded emotional. he sounded choked up about this. i find this happening across the country. when people hear real examples, when they hear what has really happen to women who are trying to get an abortion, or even just seek reproductive health care, the discussion changes a bit. >> yeah. absolutely. representative collins is an incredible representative on the other side. he is a friend of mine. my hat goes off to him for recognizing and being able to speak out. he is able to say, yes, this has real consequences. he is among though, i think,

who are starting to rethink and understand. the fact of the matter is that the republican party can't agree whether or not there should be exceptions for rape and incest. but i understand is that they may be proposing an exception for minors. if you are eight as an adult, best of luck. >> i wasn't alabama cook a couple of weeks ago. they're talking to a number of abortion providers. at least in alabama, they have this exception for the health of the mother. can you explain to me what that means? i saw that clip of something that you said. it sort of speaks to this issue. i want to play this as well. >> i was so excited about the baby that will be bringing into the world. that all changed one tuesday afternoon when i experienced a placenta eruption. i was standing on my front porch, hemorrhaging blood, and begging 9-1-1 to call my

husband. i was so thankful that my doctor did not have to waste time with the hospital legal counsel to ask whether my condition was enumerated in section -- i am so saying fall that i got the treatment that i needed. i was in and out of the hospital in the next several months. that includes an emergency c-section. because of this history, i cannot risk another pregnancy. there is the excruciating decision of what would happen without such excellent medical care. >> what you described there is something that could go away in a lot of states. it has gone away in a lot of states. maybe law does not say something. enumerates something about the health and the mother. some daughter or mother have to question it. that could actually compromise the pregnancy or the health of the mother. >> right. exactly. we have spent more time talking to lawyers right now than

doctors do is caring for their patients. that is the risk. there is no faster way to drive daughters out of south carolina than to threaten them with a felony criminal prosecution, civil liability, and license seizure. this is just for providing women health care. it just takes one zealous prosecutor -- take the same political environment for our representatives. it takes one's honest prosecutor for the charges. we are crazy if we don't think that is gonna have a chilling effect on our doctors providing care. that is spencer wetmore of south carolina. thank you for your time. we appreciate your analysis on this. we appreciate you sharing your personal experiences. >> thank you for having me. as we approach the midterm elections, one thing is for certain, democracy in this country is in peril. a group of republicans want you to believe that america is not actually democracy. actually democracy

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a 2020 election was stolen from donald trump. that lie grew and grew. recounts, audience, restrictions on future voting, delivered attempts to overturn those election results. there is the big whammy. where were the january six insurrection of the united states capitol. the one seed planted by the former president has grown into an unkempt garden of lies, conspiracy theories, and people willing and able to spread them. american democracy has been on steady decline for years. we have been trying to make sense of it. how can one party seems so opposed to the single principle on which this nation was built? here is one school of thought, maybe it is not that the far-right wants to tear democracy down, maybe they never believed in its existence in the first place. for decades, there has been a misguided philosophy that america is not in fact democracy. rather, it is a republic. the two are not mutually

exclusive. this argument is age-old in america. and had a resurgence in popularity in the thick of the cold war. that was thanks to the john birch society. it was a private organization. it was founded by a man named robert wells. well it was a candy mogul. his company invented a county bar on a stick called the sugar daddy. that is here nor there. his creation of the john birch society is the thing that change the world as we know it. the intent of the society was to fight communists. he wanted to preach small government and save the country from a global conspiracy of leftist's. it was known for its far-right and older conservative believes. it promoted lies and conspiracies. wells accuse the civil rights movement of being a communist conspiracy. he added the communists for plotting to control the minds of americans through fluoride in the water system. this is giving you a sense of déjà vu. much of today's far-right politics and paranoia can be

traced back to the john birch society. the radical group was on the fringes before the dark web or facebook existed. they were known for contending that, quote, america is a republic. it is not a democracy. we are seeing the rebirth of this concert in arizona today. isolate of trump endorsed candidates collectively believe that the 2020 election was stolen. they all won primaries in arizona last month. there was the u.s. senate candidate, the candidate for state attorney general, and the secretary of state candidate. robert draper with the new york times magazine points out that arizona republicans are increasingly committed to the idea of democracy. >> this is not just for democratic principles. it is increasingly for the word democracy itself. it is distinct for anything that it has encountered in over two decades of covering conservative politics. draper quotes a committee woman who lost a bid for the house

seat. he said, quote, we are a constitutional republic. nowhere in the constitution doesn't use the word democracy. when i hear the word democracy, we are thinking of a democracy of the democratic republic of the congo. that is not us. with the committee woman is asserting is an idea that comes will particularly narrow and selective interpretation of the constitution. america has defined it as a constitutional federal republic. democracy is defined as a government by the people. the supreme powers invested in the people. it is exercised directly by them or by their elected agents. a republic is defined as a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens that are entitled to vote. it is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them. people vote, but the power is exercised through lawmakers. that may sound familiar for

america. take the definition of a republic as a rejection of democracy is disingenuous. the main difference in the united states constitution is the extent to which they directly control the process of making laws. our constitutionally mandated use of the electoral college system as opposed to popular vote means that america is not invited to democracy. the u.s. is not a popular or pure democracy in that sense. we were reminded that in 2016. hillary clinton won more votes than her opponent by millions, yet donald trump won the presidency because of electoral college math. we do have representative democracy in this country. that means that freedom comes from a right to choose who badger epicenter interest as a nation. -- there is the far-right view that the voting itself is an existential threat. voting restrictions, voting --

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our insoles are designed with unique massaging gel waves, for all-day comfort and energy. find your relief in store or online. before the break, we dug into what constitutes a democracy versus republic. we talked about what we are seeing a big push on the right to challenge the idea that this country's democracy. given the extreme attacks on americas choices, the freedom to vote for the last several years, my next guests mastery of the show object will and lightness on the thinking behind us and this anti-democracy experiment. to me now is one of the most important voices on this. he is one of the top constitutional thinkers of our time. this is a professor of law and political science at yale university. he is an expert on constitutional law. he is the host of america's constitution podcast. professor, good to see you.

thank you for being with us this morning. help me out here, you and i have talked. you know that i am no constitutional scholar. when we're talking about here? what is this constitution? what is this argument? are we both republic and democracy? are we more a republic than a democracy? help us out. >> yes. it is both. it tastes great, last filling. two great tastes taste great together. our two great parties, of course, have filled on these two words. let's take what we call the democrat party, it began as jefferson's party. when jefferson james madison cofounded, it was alternating we call the republican party, the democrat party, the democrat republicans. potato potato. the question is, we the people are the ultimate sovereigns. we operate through direct and

indirect mechanisms. we have voting and representative process is. we use juries. some of the audience members from high school, we had a federalist paper. we wrote an essay about the constitution. it was by james madison. he tried to distinguish republicans and democracies. nobody else did. let me read you a passenger too. this is a quote from the other great founders. this is jon marshall, the chief justice of the united states from the early 19th century. this is our greatest chief justice. here's what he says in the constitutional convention. he says, well, we idolize democracy, we contend for a real well regulated democracy, we believe in a well regulated democracy. this guy is named james wilson. he writes the words, we the people, he is the most prominent lawyer of his time. he is one of the six people -- he is one of the first five

people on the supreme court. he was an associate justice. he is one of the only six people to sign a declaration constitution. the democratic principle is carried into every part of the government. one party should not be trying to discredit the other party this way. >> my other question, what does one get from that? what to these folks in arizona get for saying, hey, we are not democracy, we are not a democracy, we are a public, where does that lead in practical terms in 2022? >> it delegitimizes the democratic party. that is just a meme. it is a branding in trademark. that means, oh, don't trust the voters in arizona, they might vote for biden. we the legislature in arizona, georgia, pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, there are a bunch of those states that have red legislatures. they have blue presidential electorates. what is going on is a carefully

laid plans from 2024. they want to actually take power away from the voters in the presidential election and relocate them to the public in state legislature. republican into senses, but republican party, it is also indirect in filtered. all of these places, it is because of gerrymandering. there is geographic clustering and other things. you have red states legislatures. there is also blue presidential electorates. that is what is going on. >> part of their's works into the old concept of the independent state legislature theory. there is the idea that your state legislature is your choice and your representative. when you represent those legislators, the decision is up to them. >> right. there are two points on that. one, it is true that the constitution gives a lot of power to state legislatures. state legislators are creatures of state constitutions. they are not really independent. state constitutions come from

the people of the state. the people of the states constitution's -- democratically, they have initiatives and referendums. you say that constitutions are enforced by state supreme court justices. they are often elected statewide in democratic fashion rather than in districts which can be gerrymandered. you are going to hear a lot more about this independent state legislature idea. stay tuned. it will be the version of john eastman's efforts to steal the thing in 2020. in 202if >> your audience wantse on this, you are very kind. thank you for mentioning my podcast. we have several episodes on independent state legislature theory. stay tuned, the supreme court is going to be hearing an important case about that is coming term. >> i love that you said that. >> they need to. it is really important. >> i think that is right. oftentimes, people tweet me

after segments like this, where can i get more about this? i am glad. for the rest of us who are not like professor akhil reed amar, we need to understand what this argument is and how to deal with it. we appreciate that. thank you. a kiel, could to see you again. that is professor akhil reed amar. he's a professor of law and political science at yale university. he is the host of americas constitution podcast. this may not be one that is on your list, but now it should be. this is going to become very, very important. it is gonna play out over the next three months. akhil reed amar, good to see you. thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up, six months into russia's brutal war in ukraine, the devastation and in humanity continues. joining me after the break, ukrainian member of parliament, i spoke with her in person during my time in ukraine this past spring. she joins me at my hotel in lviv. that came as the world was learning about the evil horrors left in the wake of the retreat of the talent or surrounding the capital of kyiv. of the talent or surrounding th>> those are just sick people.

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ukraine. he estimated it would take three days to capture the capital city of kyiv. it is now day 178 and counting of russia's unprovoked war on ukraine. the six month since the start of the invasion. the dream is dead for now, just like the tens of thousands of russian soldiers who have been killed in the fighting. that is in addition to the scores of ukrainian soldiers and civilians, both young and old. there are also foreigners fighting to defend ukraine and the democracy itself. the deadly in destructive fighting continues. although, essentially, no significant ground has been lost or gained by either side from over the summer. even though that both sides continue to suffer heavy losses. russia is now in control of the eastern donbas region. that consists of donetsk and luhansk. these are essentially provinces. they continue to cement their authority in the regions. villages and towns, what remains of them, many of them have been obliterated from the face of the year is because of this fighting. budding in the donbas has been

going on for years. that includes liberal trench warfare going back all the way to 2014. it didn't stop. crimea, which russia also invaded and illegally annexed in 2014, they have largely served as a vital staging ground and resupply site for russia's attack directly to the north and northeast. that includes in kherson, over here. it has been under russian control since the first days of the war. russia also maintains control of the nuclear power plant. it has been sporadic and dangerous. there has been fighting in and around the facility for much of the war. ukraine now says that russia may be planning a military operation at the plant. they also plan on diverting the power that is created by the facility to crimea and russia. however, ukraine has halted russia's advanced westward in the nearby city of mykolaiv have. that is over here.

it remained under ukraine control. it was under siege since february. that is important. it prevents russia from advancing on the ground of the agent and heavily fortified city of odessa. that is right here on the black sea. odessa is a city that putin has been publicly pining for. he described the ukrainian black sea territory. russia can't advance on odessa by sea. ukraine isn't putting heavy losses on russian naval assets. that includes, you might remember, the sinking of russia's black sea flagship, the moskva. russia does not plan on stopping at odessa. this is important to know. that is odessa, disses the ukrainian border. they continue to this little part in red over here. this is a tiny swath of russian occupied land. it is technically part of a different country, moldova. as you can see, taking control

of odessa and trans mystery out would complete russian control of all of the ukrainian territory in the black sea. this is part of the goal. however, ukraine has also recently increased its counterattacks on russian held territories assets. that includes new brazen attacks inside of russia in the city of -- they have already seen several ukrainian attacks. crimea essentially has really not in harm's way for most of this war. ukraine has recently conducted several attacks on russian infrastructure and assets. that includes at the military airfield outside of the russian ammunition depot. there's a lot going on here. joining me now from kyiv is a member of ukrainian parliament. she's also the deputy chair of ukraine's political party. they are an opposition party that is in parliament. this is someone that i spoke to at the beginning of the war.

i met her and her son back in april. this is just as the world was learning of the horrors committed by russia in the city of bucha and other towns surrounding the capital of kyiv. >> thank you for being with us. thank you for all of those days that you spent with us. i don't know whether you and i thought back in march and april that we would still be discussing this the way that we are in august. this is now six months of this war. in your mind, in your heart, and your thoughts, where are we? first of all, thank you for having me again. there was so many days ago. this war has been dragging on. it has lasted for much longer than we were expecting. i think that what we are learning right now, we are trying to accommodate ourselves and the thought that this war

could take much longer than we would wanted to take. as you have commented, there have not been much progress on either side in terms of gaining in regaining control of the land in ukraine. i think that we are trying to think that this war could actually take much longer. i think that is a situation as it is right now. >> let's discuss how it is possible jens. vladimir putin had a few goals. there was the nazification of the ukraine, it turned out not to be a thing. he wanted to stop the expansion of nato, he got the opposite result. other countries joined nato. he also was after the provinces in eastern ukraine that he wants to control over. what do you think happens now to move the needle? what is the next step? what is happening right now is

that the ukrainian army has actually change the strategy. there is no direct battle between ukrainian and russian armies. ukrainian army is using their well weapons that they have received in the recent couple of weeks to destroy the russian ammunition. in that sense, they have taken the supply chains. thus, the russian army cannot move forward. they don't have enough ammunition. they don't have enough weapons. that does not mean that they are running out of it. that is important for our friends and allies. russia is the second biggest army in the world. in some senses, in some types of weapons and ammunition, they are actually number one. they still have lots of weapons. if ukraine army has been destroying so much of those weapons storage. is it a six 3 million owing to the russians right now. i think that is how it will

proceed. there is a couple of more weeks. so far, i don't think we will see the retaking of that ground by ukrainian forces. for one reason, we simply do not have any tanks. we still have not received them from our western partners. i'm calling on you to help us receive those from the u.s.. i think that will continue to destroy russia. it decreases in their capacity to attack the ukrainian army. >> one of the things that made it so helpful to talk to you so often why is that you, just like everybody else in ukraine, are not talking to me as a member of parliament. you have a deeply personal connection to this war. as to all ukrainians who have a young son. you have a boyfriend involved. you have a father involve. you have a family literally from east to west in that country. you come from a place that's obvious attacks and continues

to. tell me about your personal situation right now. >> right now, i am at home in kyiv. i have been at home. i actually moved my son back to kyiv, the kyiv region. that is where my parents live. we did that a couple of weeks ago. i will tell you this, the first night that he was speaking at my parents place, i was there as well. he went to bad. he suddenly came back to my room. he told me that he was afraid. what is happening, why are you afraid? >> he said, the war is much closer here. well the russians come overnight and kill me? >> that is something that i never wanted to hear from my nine year old son. he was really scared of that. i had to explain to him that he is not in any direct danger. if the russians decide to attack you have again, we will relocate him as we did when the war started. trust me, that is a very challenging discussion to have with your son. my boyfriend is in the army.

we did have a week when he was in kyiv for sometime. i got to see him a couple of times. that is more than we did see each other for the first few months of the war. he is back over there in the battle. constantly worried about him as well? the parents are fine, thank you for asking. >> well, it is good to see you again. it is not good circumstances under which to see you, one day we will speak to each other in times of peace. give your side my regards. it was fun to meet him. we are in lviv. we have a great picture together. thank you. good to see you. we will continue our conversations as we have done for the last six months. inna sovsun is a member of ukrainian parliament. straight ahead, we are digging into multiple investigations involving the former president and his cronies. plus, the velshi book club is cracking open in the satanic verses by salman rushdie. he just