in kyiv for sometime. i got to see him a couple of times. that is more than we did see each other for the first few months of the war. he is back over there in the battle. constantly worried about him as well? the parents are fine, thank you for asking. >> well, it is good to see you again. it is not good circumstances under which to see you, one day we will speak to each other in times of peace. give your side my regards. it was fun to meet him. we are in lviv. we have a great picture together. thank you. good to see you. we will continue our conversations as we have done for the last six months. inna sovsun is a member of ukrainian parliament. straight ahead, we are digging into multiple investigations involving the former president and his cronies. plus, the velshi book club is cracking open in the satanic verses by salman rushdie. he just survived an

assassination attempt. another hour of velshi begins right now. ght now. good morning, saturday august 20th. not am in the 6 am in the west, i'm ali bell. she hardly a day passes without a development in the investigation that is somewhat connected to donald. trump that is because there are no fewer than four current and ongoing criminal investigations. related to the president himself, relative to have ever set of inquiries across multiple states. it all culminated in an fbi search of his private awaits us in palm beach florida. let's go to, new york where trump spent the vast majority of his life and career before he became president. he is facing a pair of inquiries into his company's business practices. when is a civil case which is headed by the new york, state attorney general letitia james. he was looking into whether the trump organization lied about the value of its assets, either to receive loans from the bank or to avoid paying its fair

share of taxes. trump appeared for deposition with the attorney general james during which he pleaded the fifth, roughly 440 times. now there's a related criminal investigation into the trump organization's finances. led by manhattan, district attorney alvin bragg. it was for this investigation this week that the trump organization's chief financial officer, allen weisselberg pleaded guilty to more than a dozen accounts that were related to his failure to pay worth one point $7 million in taxes. meanwhile, down in, georgia grandeur is closing in on key trump allies. and their roles in the attempt to overturn the states results from the 2020 presidential election. grandeur is specifically investigating the trump campaign's attempts, to interfere in the states election including the apparent scheme to send fake electors to washington d.c.. and remember donald trump's infamous phone call to georgia secretary of state, brad

raffensperger. urging him to quote find 11, 000, 780 votes in trump's favor. prosecutors recently informed donald trump's former personal attorney, rudy giuliani that he is a target of the investigation. and could be indicted for trying to keep trump in power, despite his attempts to fight a subpoena ordering him to appear in front of the grand jury. south carolina senator and trump ally, lindsey graham has been ordered by a federal judge to testify next week. georgia's probe however pales in comparison to the sprawling january six investigation that is being conducted by the department of justice. the attorney general, merrick garland has called it quote the most wide-ranging investigation in department of justice history. today it, more than 850 people have been charged in connection with the attack on the capitol and the work on that front continues. we also know that donald trump is the subject of the

investigation meaning that the justice department has really acquired about the presidents actions, leading up to and on the day of the insurrection. whether that leads to a criminal charge against trump is the big unknown. in addition to all of the, about the doj is conducting a separate, second federal investigation. related to trump's improper handling of classified documents. after he left the office which could be in violation of the espionage act. it is this case that resulted in the search of mar-a-lago about two weeks ago, during which the fbi retreated boxes of classified documents. that probably belong to the government of the united states. and should have been with the national archives. court filings showed that among the material recovered from donald trump's palm beach residents, where sensitive documents marked secret and top secret. and according to the washington post, some of the classified documents related to nuclear weapons. we don't know much else about the investigation just yet. a judge in florida said on

thursday, he is inclined to unseal portions of the fbi's affidavit. laying out the reasons for obtaining the search warrant. that is something we will be on the lookout for in the coming days and weeks. now for any of these investigations, any of them could normally sink a person's future political prospects. except we're talking about donald trump here. for some reason, trump seems to be the exception to the rule. reason, trump seems tnot only s remain alive, the fbi search appears to have actually given him a boost. unsurprisingly, trump has been fundraising off of his latest legal woes. his campaign has been spandex that porters and with hyperbolic emails, claiming that he is being personally politically, persecuted. and you guessed, it he would like your money. the washington post reported the days following the fbi raid, his fundraising spiked surpassing the million dollar mark on multiple days recently. according to several sources,

that liven up his base because of the end of the, day money in the trump brand is really what it is all about. although a significant fraction of the republican party has rallied around trump, following the mar-a-lago raid, the reality is a lot of uncertainty remains for the former president as these investigations continue. joining me to discuss this, jennifer reuben, opinion writer for washington post and msnbc political analyst. tim o'brien, senior columnist for bloomberg opinion. also an msnbc political analyst. he has the unique insight on the inner workings of donald trump as the author of trump's biography, trump nation, the art of being the donald. welcome to both of, you're good to see you both. tim, i am constantly interested and hearing what your take is on a daily basis here. you not only know about donald trump's history but you are actually a bit of a specialist and donald trump's lying. this counter that the washington post can for a long time about how many lies donald trump has told. you got into it with donald

trump years ago. he actually sued you because you are trying to point out the fact that he was lying. >> well in the deposition that we took, a part of that litigation we opposed him for two days and december of 2007. 28 hour sessions. during the course of that deposition, my lawyers routinely push documents across the table. to trump we during discovery, got access to his putt returns, bank records, business records. he had spent years lying about the mundane things. like how much she got for speaking, fees to more serious things about bogus evaluations he placed on the sale of some of his properties. all of which is -- to both of the investigations going on in new york. and i think one of the lessons that came out of the depositions is that, donald trump is a serial, fabulous. he is a chronic individual liar. he exaggerates to sort of puff

up his own ego and to convince people he is bigger and better than he is. that, position is every lawyer's nightmare and i think that is one of the reasons why during the deposition in the ag's case in new york, he took the fifth over 400 times. he did not want to incriminate himself which he is prone to do. i think the other thing to think about historically with trump's there has been this idea that he is pure tough. lawn law enforcement never got on him, in decades past and they through two impeachments. and he will get through all of this. i think it is really worth recognizing that he's never been subject to a wide variety of federal and state investigations. of this caliber and with the quality of the evidence of this in hand. i think he is in very dire straits right now legally. >> and jen, i am inclined to believe tim o'brien and i am sort of sad for donald trump. i am anxious for him. for everything that could happen, that doesn't seem to be

the way that guy's mind works. in fact, i was having a conversation with michael cohen the other things that he would not run for president, he knows he cannot win. and then after all of this happened, people rally around donald trump. they believe him when he says he is persecuted. they believe the wichita thing, a dude went to an fbi office in cincinnati and tried to shoot an fbi officer because of stuff donald trump said. >> this is a classic cult leader who his people never take out information that is contrary to the myth that he has woven about himself. so when he is under investigation, all of these forum which are outlying, they see him as persecuted. if he has taken, documents while he didn't take a. if we detect them, there were his. and if they were in his then he didn't know. if he didn't know, maybe they were planted. and so it just goes to this serial set of lies, has followers just go right after him. following him as he goes. and of, course he has a ferry

domesticated media on the right. that echoes these things and does not ask hard questions. that is not challenged the viewers notions about him. i would say one, thing although the base of the republican party and republicans in general have rallied, i do think that he was at the same problem he is always had. that is when he has prosecutors like merit karlyn, like willis in georgia. like brad in new york. all of this as a, matter it doesn't matter if he is popular with the base. maryland doesn't care, he will go forward and he will do his investigation. all of that proffering and all of that sense, if i run for president and nobody will arrest me. nobody will indict, me that is nonsense. he does not have a defense for that. he will have to face the music. the other thing is that he is operating and he is a perfect fish in a modest sized pond. the american people in general,

65% or so think he either committed a crime or it is something very wrong on january six. so no matter how strange the electoral system, maybe you cannot win the presidency with 35% of the vote. so as much as he is the devoted leader of the cult leader of this movement, it doesn't help him legally. ultimately, it will not help him get back to the white house. >> tim describing all of the morass that he faces, the one that may be least understandable because it's a little bit, different a little bit removed is from what we have talking about is allen weisselberg. they're criminal charges that he faces. they are about inflating his own salary and dealing with things that don't seem related to donald trump. where in your opinion or how does what happened to weisselberg in any way connect to donald trump? >> well as you know, allen weisselberg was a trump family accountant for decades before he graduated becoming the cfo

of the trump organization. he knows well of the financial bodies are buried in trump land. trump's trust them explicitly over the years. with sensitive information, some of which i think involves very core of the investigations. that are going on in new york, whether or not they doctored the valuations of their properties to get bank loans. when they needed an expense evaluation, to lower the tax rates. when i wanted to lowball. it weisselberg is popularly i think been described as somebody was decided not to cooperate with the probes in new york. the reality now is, he has been promised a lighter sentence in exchange for testifying. this is important testifying truthfully, and the trial that is ongoing against the trump organization as a whole. that is going to come to trial in the fall. and, weisselberg if he is found to apply during that testimony, could face as much as 15 years in prison instead of a lot of

five month sentence. he will get otherwise, he will be mightily incentive to ask or answer every question that the prosecutors asked him about a wide range of financial issues in the trump organization. nobody did anything substantial inside the trump organization would have donald trump signing off on it. there is no way this doesn't in some fashion learned the donald trump's doorstep and i think the issue is one of the consequences going to be for trump? i don't think the da's investigation is as robust as it once was and that's a criminal probe. that would've involved prison time. the new york ag's investigation which is a civil probe, not could wind up with the trump organization being put out of business. it is already in a very vulnerable position. donald trump is in the worst business you can imagine during the covid era. urban realest, a essentially tourism and hotel businesses. and he has a lot of debt against those businesses, he is personally going to need a substantial amount. he's also flailing possibly

financially. if we colorful come to head in the fall. >> something else will come to a head jennifer. i don't know if you subscribe to donald trump social media platform, he posted last night that quote a major motion pertaining to the fourth amendment motion be filed to concerning the illegal break-in of my home, mar-a-lago, right before the ever important midterm elections. i think there's probably a lot of googling going on this morning of the fourth amendment, i remind my viewers you are a lawyer. the fourth amendment is the right at the people to be secure and their persons, houses, papers and effects against on real -- shall not be violated and no warrants show issue, but upon probable cause supported by oath or affirmation and particularly, describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized. so i'm quite excited about what this major thing is going to be. because it's the same thing

that he said two weeks, ago this is an illegal search. a witch hunt, it is not supposed to be there. turns out it may not be an illegal search. t it may not be an that is right. there was a showing of probable cause. now we are talking about revealing the affidavit that would have all of the particulars. that includes witnesses, other documents, surveillance. this is the way that they know that he had as, with probable cause, violated at least one statute. we have a showing of probable cause. we had a warrant issued by a judge. whatever he is talking about, he can make whatever motion he wants. as you said, that is really nothing new. we may get to see part. it is maybe not the most interesting part of that affidavit. >> thank you to both of you. this is a great conversation. we always appreciate you joining us early on a saturday morning. jennifer reuben is an opinion writer at the washington post. tim o'brien is a senior columnist for bloomberg opinion. thank you to both of you. >> still ahead on velshi, it has not been almost six months

to the day since vladimir putin invaded ukraine. we are live on the ground in the city of lviv. we are having a conversation about where things stand now. we are with a reporter that was there from the very beginning. plus, a special edition of the velshi book club. it is featuring the controversial novel, based panic versus. we will explore something with a friend of the author. he should be on tour with him. he remains in the hospital one week after being attacked over the book, this is the starkest example about why book banning and censorship is so deeply important. you are watching velshi on msnbc. shi on msnbc. ♪ breeze driftin' on by... ♪ if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. ♪...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ no once-daily copd medicine... has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function.

it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy, and save at trelegy.com.

when hurting feet make you want to stop, it's dr. scholl's time. our custom fit orthotics use foot mapping technology to give you personalized support, for all-day pain relief. find your relief in store or online. a lot of grim news today.

we have a major victory for abortion rights advocates in michigan, quite frankly, it is across the whole country. it is thanks to the quick thinking and forethought of one person. a judge has ruled that abortion in michigan must remain legal, at least for now. on friday, a circuit court judge granted an injunction

that blocks the enforcement of a 91 year old law that bans abortion. in michigan, that is the way it goes in michigan. roe v. wade is gone. it was going to fall to this 1931 law. a judge said to allow that law to stand would, quote, certainly health care system into crisis in place an undue burden on the people of michigan. the nearly a century old law known only profits abortion, but it makes it a felony punishable by up to four years in prison. it makes abortion completely illegal except when saving the life of the mother. there are no carveouts for rape and incest. michigan's democratic governor saudi riding on the wall long before the leak of the supreme court decision to overturn the decision of roe v. wade. back in april, the governor sued to stop in 1931 abortion ban from being enforced. friday's ruling is a winter peoples seeking abortions throughout the midwest. as you can see right here, illinois is the only state in the midwest that is likely to

uphold a right to an abortion. long term abortion access in michigan is still up in the air. the 1931 lawless technically still on the books. it is just paused until the november election. the same judge said that there should be up to the voters of michigan. there is likely to be a question on a referendum in november about whether to entrench abortion protections in michigan. losing access to care in those two states, by the way, would force money people to make long and expensive journeys to seek an abortion. planned parenthood michigan has also filed a lawsuit. it aims to protect access to abortion care in that state. michigan, remember, is a swing state. it ships from red to blue at the last national local level from year to year. according to the post, state board canvassers are going to meet later this month to decide whether to put that voter referendum on abortion on-duty bout in november. the support seems to be there.

a historic number of michiganders, over 750,000 of them, signed a petition. they are signaling their support for that initiative in november. we are going to have to see how that plays out. right after the break, ukraine is carrying out what they call a major counter offensive against russia. it will be enough to turn the red tide after six months of war? we'll have an update live from lviv. that is next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. ♪ ♪

large out-of-state corporations have set to come to the table a their sights on california.. they've written prop 27, to allow online sports betting.

they tell us it will fund programs for the homeless. but read prop 27's fine print. 90% of profits go to out-of-state corporations, leaving almost nothing for the homeless. no real jobs are created here. but the promise between our state and our sovereign tribes would be broken forever. these out-of-state corporations don't care about california. but we do. it is day one 78 of russia's stand with us.

invasion, ukraine elastics months of the bladder may put since unprovoked war of choice. a war which continues to have deadly and destructive consequences for millions of people. does not appear to be nearing an end anytime soon. russia is now in control of a large swaths, of ukrainian territory. stretching from the donbas in the east, a region with russia's been fighting for since 2014 to crimea and the

south. another return that russia invaded and illegally annexed also in 2014. which also maintains control of this upper richie had nuclear power plant which is located at the edge of russian held territory. it is seen sporadic and dangerous, fighting in and around the facility for much of the war. ukraine now says that russia may be planning a military operation at the plant in plans on diverting the power that is generated by this facility to crimea and russia instead of ukraine. and although fighting is not focused along the east and the south, russia continues to launch sporadic far from the front into the north and west of ukraine. ukraine also continues a successful counteroffensive in the south. in the area just north of crimea. and as even recently begun counter attacks on russian infrastructure and assets inside of crimea. south of crimea in the black sea, russia's blockade has prevented greene from entering

the world marketplace right? comes out of here and goes into the rest of the world. that is not the humanitarian catastrophes the nations that are reliant on it and by the way a whole lot of the inflation that we are seeing. a handful of shipments have been allowed to proceed this month for a very fragile deal that was brokered by turkey. it is allowed some ships to get through. the other humanitarian catastrophe has of course been a people one. at the united nations high commissioner for refugees has recorded more than 6.6 million ukrainian refugees across europe. more than 3.8 million registered for some sort of temporary protection status to remain in those countries. joining me now is terrell jermaine, star the father and house of the black diplomats podcast. a nonresident, senior fellow at the atlantic councils eurasia center. he's bus lashes and u.s. russia relations. terrell has spent a very significant amount of time in ukraine during the war. he has an uncanny ability to

get close to people who is covering, capturing their challenges and hardships. and the lines a helping hand as well. he denies book multiple times at the start of the war, last peaking in april during one of his stays in the united states. as you can see terrell's back in ukraine. he is joining us now from lviv. , terrell it is very good to see you. i need an update. as you know i left lviv in april. it was a city that was resilient, a coffee culture city. it's a weak afternoon where you are. people there have tried to maintain their lives and faces a bore that is going on. >> absolutely will, first of all thanks for having me here on the show velshi. as you can, see i am in reno square where you've been several times in the heart of lviv. everything is going along normally. several times here throughout the, day you did hear air raid sirens going off. what is interesting is that very few people actually went to the bunkers.

people stayed in going about their lives. and some pretty much the businesses are open. one of the things that you think when you are here for these -- russian tanks right here. -- you have a t 72 bottle tank there. so it really thought she was at these people are resilient. people are going to move forward and they definitely when they talk to me say that many of them have gone to europe or they are coming back because they say they cannot stay away from their country. some interesting numbers that you out onto the ones that you mentioned is, that there will be about 13 million people in ukraine who or what you call stuck and situations that are too dangerous for them to leave in usually in a conflict zone. you will see a third of ukrainians are entirely displace. lviv is one of the places, the major cities that allows these internally displaced people are. >> terrell, one of the things you tweeted in fact last night, it is 1:52 am.

here in lviv, a returns are going off. just a normal morning in ukraine. where putin serenades us with this threats of violence. one of the things that i noticed while i was there during the day, when people could be out. they go out and they sit and have coffee. some of the best coffee in the world in that town. and some people did not want to be affected by it. it will still seven of their coffee, even if those air raid sirens are going on. tell me about how normalcy is setting in. >> that is a good question so one of the people that i spoke to here, he left was that he was here with this young daughter, three years old. he was a ukrainian who went to america for a few months to return. he went to texas in california. he is from -- and he said that during the beginning of the war, he saw several of his homes and his neighborhood that were destroyed by russian artillery. and i asked him he said he's actually going to go back.

he like many people said that even though there's an ongoing war, here they refuse to be pushed out of their whole. i asked him was he afraid? where? he's out of, course you always have those concerns with this is my home. new york and america is not the right people think that it is. they are very resilient and those are the conversations that you repeatedly fear. from people whether being levied, whether it be any place else. people are slowly starting to trickle back into this country. the primary thing is that they see the military and their eyes, definitely are winning and are pushing the russians back. you have -- on august 24th. and as i showed, to some of these to shred vehicles here, these are just invitations if i ukrainians are resilient and believe in themselves that they will win this war. >>, okay let's talk about that when i was, there that's of people set. there was no talk about a settlement, there is no talk about a treaties and things

like. that turkey has once again suggested that it would hold talks between vladimir putin and volodymyr zelenskyy. is there are now six months in? are the people who say all right, we will give up some land to set a list or in fact, our ukrainian seemingly as committed to the idea that russians need to get out of their country as they wear when this were started six months ago. >> we noticed when you talk about concession, those are quite frankly are dangerous where. it's when you talk to people here. and the energy a feeble continue to say that they would rather die than to see land to russia. and in, fact there's been no conversations that i have seen and ukrainian or otherwise the talk about giving up any territory here in ukraine. and in, fact the attitude is that we are winning, we are actually pushing back against russia. so we have no incentives to play -- a new year basically, there is been a great fort around the president vladimir zelenskyy

because of the way his leadership, the way that he has carried himself on television interviews. i have to tell you the way, the the manner which they speak about zelenskyy's different before this war started. he is dealing with the pork automate, dealing with a range of things. this very brave, the strong disposition that people, zelenskyy carries. it was not the image that he had before the war at all. i could tell you that for certain. >> he was a satire rest, i met a lot of people who said and you told me, we are not fall for him. we do not think that would be up to it and we did not think he could fight corruption in the country. do not think it was up to a war with vladimir putin. and vladimir zelenskyy has beaten a lot of odds. >> and, velshi one of the things i want to add here is that when you come here now, to reno square it is a real tourist area. you have a whole lot of people around with their children. one of the things that you see, okay. >> go ahead, finish your

thought is that you have these definitely have these postcards and it basically says -- [inaudible] and i guess and then occasion of small symbol to tourists that, we are resilient and we want the world to know that this is what we think about the russian who are coming to invade. >> your reporting has been amazing my, friend thank you for being as you say a human as well as a journalist while doing it. terrell jermaine, star and nonresident nancy near fellow at the atlantic council eurasia center. joining us live from, lviv state safe thank you for always keeping us up to date. coming, up a judge in georgia has upheld one of the states most head-scratching voting restrictions. don't even think about giving up food or water to people lined up to vote. at a polling station. a polling station

e've got ♪ ♪ ow, ow ♪ ♪ with a big, fresh carrot ♪ ♪ and a whole lot of cheese ♪ ♪ and the mirror from your van is halfway down the street ♪ ♪ well, you can say that -- ♪ wait, what? i said, "someone just clipped the side view mirror right off the delivery van." when owning a small business gets real, progressive gets you right back to living the dream. now, where were we? why, you were fixin' to peel me. [ laughter ] it's the all-new subway series menu! 12 irresistible new subs... like #9 the champ. rotisserie style chicken double monterey cheddar. the champ is truly made for a champ. gee, thanks chuck. who said anything about you? it's subway's biggest refresh yet.

age is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. the state of georgia

contentious out strife and gums access to. voting a u.s. district judge decided to uphold the states ban on handing up food and water to people waiting in line to vote. the provision was signed into law last year by georgia's governor brian kemp as a part of a sweeping election overhaul. this it argues heading up food and water to voters could lead to potential illegal campaigning or vote buying. and that was too close to the midterms to change the. -- a judge agreed, voting as advocates backed by the aclu contend this is a violation of free speech and that is stifles one right to encourage others to participate in elections. it is a the voting law and others like it are unnecessary obstacles and the 74-page order, the judge said the voting rights group failed to show how prohibited the distribution of

food and beverages and with 150 -- is unconstitutional. georgia's been the tory's for having along voting lines in recent years, especially in communities of color. and putting the minority vote has been a republican tactic for years and then effort to maintain republican control of elected office. this is a setback by putting advocates in georgia said they will continue their fight to get out the vote ahead of this year's key election. which will say the incumbent governor brian kemp face off against democrat stacey abrams for the second time in four years. and the democratic senator, raphael warnock is going to try and former football star. herschel walker. all, right it has been a while, i am pleased to bring in my friend tiffany cross. those of the cross connection, tiffany you as always have a loaded show coming up this morning. however, the story is intriguing by virtue of the fact that you are in atlanta native. i must warn you to not get

caught passing out waters or bags of chips the voters. >> first, of all it's wonderful to see my friend but you are so right. this ruling i'm so happy that you lied about what happened in georgia. this is why it's so dangerous alley to say, this voter suppression is a result of the big lie. this level of voter suppression has that been for decades as you well know my friend. and in georgia all of the long line that you will see, 20 to 30 years ago they're along winds mostly in black communities. that is voter suppression, they continue to control the clothing of the polls and communities of colors. brian kemp has been an avid suppressor of voters since the 90s. he and stacey abrams have faced off in numerous battles when it comes to voter suppression. all right a lot about that in my book. saying it louder but it's really sad to see what is happening, there this is what i can tell you. if they say the voting activists cannot pass out food or water, 150 feet of a polling location, as activists are die hards. they would do it 151 feet of

voter polls. latosha brown and cliff all right with black voters matter who have done so much great work there. we have a lot to get to this morning in addition to what is happening with voter suppression. we are taking a look at some of these republican candidates ali, following donald trump's footsteps. it is really wild to see florida man of course, ron desantis. you know that trumpism is on the ballot this november, even if trump is. and we will dive into that and see how some of these candidates are even viable. it was interesting to say mitch mcconnell say it acknowledge that they will have a challenging time trying to take control of the senate. plus for all of the parents out there, ali there are many folks heading back to school with a teacher shortage. we will take a look at some of the reasons why there might be a teacher shortage. it is not just teachers don't want to teach, there are things like low pay, increasing threats over the curriculum politics. and we are going to talk to two filmmakers who did that emmy nominate documentary genius. to get to kanye west.

he is such a controversial figure but watching the documentary, it really does have sympathy for him. we will talk to those guys as well. jam-packed show ali. >> as i tweeting about that this, morning i will take that under advisory. it's great to see, you definite, prostate and right after velshi for the cross connection starting at 10 am eastern. right after the, break the velshi banned book club takes on the satanic verses. satanic verses. en moderate to severe ulcerative colitis persists... put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when uc got unpredictable,... i got rapid symptom relief with rinvoq. check. when uc held me back... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc got the upper hand... rinvoq helped visibly repair the colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief. lasting, steroid-free remission. and a chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check. check. and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke,

and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older... with at least 1 heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq... as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. put uc in check and keep it there, with rinvoq. ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq. and learn how abbvie could help you save. this is a charged lemonade from panera, ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq. and it's a force of nature. a delicious boost of plant based caffeine from guarana and green coffee extract. enjoy these and more when you join panera's unlimited sip club. i typed in my dad's name... and i found his childhood home. he's been wondering about the address for seventy years... (chuckle) and i found it in five minutes. travel back in time in no time with the 1950 census on ancestry. while millions no salman

rushdie name, many of the apparatus most controversial, normal this atlantic versus including the two men who are allegedly willing to kill him over it. rushdie accused assailant red two pages of the book, the late fundamentalist leader of iran, the ayatollah rahowa who issued a thought. and -- allegedly navarrete it at all. last week this authentic versus shot up to number one on amazon, both in the solidarity for

rushdie and likely curiosity about a book that can cause a person to attempt to kill its author. here is a brief certain optics of the book. the satanic verses could be categorizes magic realizing, having on the dream sequence. at the start of the novel, our two protagonists -- are magically saved after being trapped on a hijacked plane flying from india to great britain. they're the trump sort of into the archangel gabriel and the devil. he is arrested and faces police brutality as a suspected illegal immigrant while -- develop schizophrenia. both character struggle to build back their lives. ultimately returning to india. despite a literal interpretation by some islamic fundamentalists, the the satanic verses as far from a direct commentary on the islamic. grapples with identity maternity, conformity and centrally focuses on the alienation and plight of an immigrant. that that refers to a group of ironic versus about three pagan

meghan goddesses. perhaps he would be an appropriate time to read some of the passengers from the satanic verses. natalie costs salman rushdie his life. i'm not doing that, for one ring the passages along with the rest of the not legit as contacts would be misrepresenting. that which is how we got the spotlight in the first place. of all the books that we cover here in the velshi banned book club, contacts always matters. no bright prize winner, once commented that the thought for his life is quote a most extreme form of literary criticism. fundamentalist whether muslim or christian often allow offense to lead to violence. salman rushdie it is like in a hospital bed because offense led to violence. 12 employees of the satirical newspaper, charlie hebdo were slain in 2015 because an offense led to violence. muslim theocracy's and fundamentals need to contend with how they are going to handle portrayals of their faith, debate and criticism

with his literature, art and every form of expression. it absolutely cannot be with the blade of a knife, nor should be with the banning of books. rushdie, an advocate for freedom of expression a spoken about threats to his life on numerous occasions including a 2012 interview with the bbc. where he said in part, quote the only way of living in a free society is to feel that you have the right to say induced f. if you look at the way in which four expression is bring attack by religious extremism, the things that watches people are accused it's always the same. blasphemy, heresy, and, offense and it's this medieval vocabulary. and quote. the stakes are high incredibly high, books, religious works or otherwise are being removed from libraries, taken from students hands and elated from syllabus pages. an author was stabbed during a speaking engagement over his book. why do we cover book banning every week? this is why. books, access to, them writing them, defending them and studying them can in fact be a

matter of life and death. right after the, break i'm thrilled to be joined by the author at harvard professor, home ike papa. professor bob was on a three city tour with salman rushdie that was cut short by the attack. they are contemporaries, friends, stay with us a very timely edition of the velshi banned book club is next. e velshi banned book club is next banned book club is next ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. ♪ ♪ with xfinity internet, you get advanced security that helps protect you at home and on the go. and do more incredible things. you feel so safe, it's as if... i don't know... evander holyfield has your back. i wouldn't click on that. hey, thanks! we got a muffin for ed! all right! you don't need those calories.

can we at least split it? nope. advanced security that helps protect your devices in and out of the home. i mean, can i have a bite? only from xfinity. nah. unbeatable internet. all, right the velshi banned made to do anything so you can do anything. book club is in session.

we are talking about they satanic verses by salman rushdie. joining me to discuss as the authors, friend professor homey kay bob who was supposed to be on tour the russia right now. professor bob is also professor of humanities, english and comparative at harvard. the author of numerous works, exploring cultural change, colonial and postcolonial theory. professor, good to see you and thank you for being with us. >> great to be with you. >> you and salmon are in the middle of a three-day conversation series, you are suppressed banning to l.a. next week. he is your friend, you've known him for a long time. how are you doing with this news? >> i was in terrible shock. i was thrown off because in fact salon had sent the draft copy of his new novel the proves just the day before and he was stabbed and this assassination attempt. it is really being a hit is three days to tell you the

truth. and it makes me think that people so misunderstand they satanic verses. when they see it only as a problem of free speech. of course there is a problem of freedom of speech and freedom of expression. but fundamentally, the novel is about the right to change. from migrants to have the right to change, to transform their lives. for literature to have the right to translate gray traditional works for migrants to have the right to change. the public culture. and the politics of metropolitan through these. the postcolonial is having the right to change the whole history of colonized societies. it is a fundamental i think his passion. it's about his passion for the right to change in the right to transform. not only the right to free

speech. which of course is very important. >> so in fact, do you talk in your book, the locations of culture, you argued the most subversive aspect of the satanic verses is placing sacred material from the quran into the secular context of a novel. it is not actually about the profit, it's something entirely different. tell me a bit more about this because for people who haven't heard, it it might be the most famous book that people have not read. not people haven't read about they know the name and they know the offer. >> is i do believe. that in fact what's solomon's trying to do there is to think about the cultural values of translation. a lot of literature is about translation. cuba -- so i think what he is trying to do and when he was trying to do was to place a religious text

in the context of migrants who had moved. from their own faith and we're trying to recreate a sense of what it was like to live with their beliefs but in a very different moment in a very different cultural here. i think that is what salman was trying to do, let's not forget that the main target of the book is mrs. thatcher. it is measures that are what that, time was rolling back a number of freedoms that they're with the welfare state. mrs. thatcher is the real, the real the attackers on her. and it's kind of new towards the politics. which is not so -- to the kind of neo-ethnic politics that we have now. she was very many of the same card. and you know the other thing ali that we should remember is

that there are different kinds of islam. we there is asian a slob, the islam from salmon rose is an easel on where there is a lot of back and forth. questions of translation, ironic songs. it does not demand the same kind of monolithic interpretation. that's on traditions occur of east law, they demand. i say this because you know, very often there is a kind of islamophobia that does not understand the different traditions of freedom and felt within the islamic tradition. >> in fact, reminiscent operation by the way about with islam embraces and forbids in terms of speech and expression and art. there is a few people --

and the way in which those of us who argue for free speech and do things like this have to think about the controversy. i want to go to the charlie hebdo attack in 2015. the literary institution pan which has been very vocal in support of salman rushdie this week. they have president of the survivors of than award for their courage. a number of pendant members wrote in opposition in a letter. they wrote there is a critical difference between staunchly supporting expression that violates the acceptable, and enthusiastically rewarding such expression. i find that an interesting protest. what do you make of that in reference to salmon, rusty? >> i think the actual reference is not so convincing myself. i think that the -- at a long tradition of a --

traditions in the material. the cartoons, at that era that they produce. they had a different kind of, a different kind of perspective and a different kind of attack. i don't think salmon went out in a way to caricatured or is. lamb think it was trying to translated as you have said in your introduction. it too about to call realist, moment into a magical realist. for maybe that succeeded in some, say it was brilliantly filled and others. it was not all political the way in which ali was i believe. i still think that killing is no kind of criticism. nowhere evan lengthening and all of the incidents, no way wronging a discussion. absolutely not. i do think there is a distinction between what's oman was doing in the satanic verses and wet -- two different cultural forms.

>> that is, that's the thing about bending anywhere but in particular, the type that salmon has faced, it is meant to chill right? whoever imposes whether it's a thought well or taking it off the library shelves, it's monticello. i think it actually has the opposite effect. it widows of a defensive book, -- what is a duty? you are you chilled by this? >> i am very chilled by, this i am told by this. i also have to say very chilled by the fact that there are more subtle kinds of banning and censorship. i don't know whether abuse the word -- as one tony morrison is taken off the syllabus. in various parts of the united states. this is a remarkable as you, know i don't need to say this, nobel prize winner. the first african american writer whose work blooded or the bluest eye is in fact a way

of trying to understand the heritage of slavery in the americas. which isn't very similar to salmon trying to understand, the postcolonial more migrant road in britain. what is soon challenging about what these rioters to is they make us rethink the long and cherished treason side to junctions. a respected of the migrant, perspective of the post mate, postcolonial, makes history read the history of metropolitan societies. that is what is resistant. that is why children are in school may not be able to have some new morrison because pause the beat, do not want them to be able to understand the history and origins of their own current ciders >> thank you for joining, us will recover, station professor homi bhabha -- at harvard