hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. it's been exactly two weeks since the search of the ex-president's private residence as part of a criminal probe into donald trump's handling of classified and sensitive documents and it is today clearer than ever that the country has entered uncharted territory. that the ex-president in grave and growing legal jeopardy. the justice department is expected to present to judge bruce reinhart a redacted version of the affidavit that was used to justify the mar-a-lago search warrant. it's a document that lays out exactly why prosecutors believe there is probable cause that crimes have been committed. reinhart issued a written order this morning in which she acknowledges that the affidavit might be so heavily redacted in order to protect doj sources and methods in what prosecutors amount to a road map to a probe that releasing that affidavit

could, in the end, be meaningless. according to reporting in politico reinhart carefully reviewed signing off and considers the affidavit to be reliable. judge reinhart also notes that donald trump's legal team has not at this point filed anything, anything at all in the legal battle over the affidavit that is despite their public demands that the affidavit be made public in all of their bluster and extreme rhetoric about a supposed lack of transparency from doj. rhetoric that, of course, has led to a surge in threats against doj and the fbi. team trump's total silence on the issue in court raises even more questions about what politico terms the throw everything against the wall response to the search itself. they write this. trump and his team have not yet settled on a single approach about what may come, in.

trump has often used litigation to delay and has loathed to go on offense particularly when he's likely to lose. while it is unclear whether the former president or any of his top allies are at imminent risk of criminal charges, they have sketched out in competing and sometimes conflicting positions that may come into play as the investigation now in its early stages accelerates, scrambling any attempt by trump's attorneys that are mounting a coherent defense is the steady drip of damning details about the mishandling of trump's records and documents, none of which ever belonged to him. they, of course, belong to us us, they belong to the archives and all of you. on the final days of the trump precedence they pulls back the curtain and reveals that members of the trump administration knew exactly what was supposed to be done with all of that government property and all of trump's records. times writes this, quote,

although the white house counsel's office had told mark meadows trump's last chief of staff that the roughly two dozen boxes needed to be turned over to the archives. some of those boxes including those with the letters to kim jong-un and some documents marked highly classified were shipped off to florida. there they were stored at various points over the last 19 months in different locations inside mar-a-lago. trump's members-only club, home and office. according to several people briefed on the events. those actions along with trump's protacted refusal to return the documents in florida to the national archives prompted doj to review the matter early this year. a flailing legal strategy from team trump in the face of more new details about trump's handling of his records is where we start today. new york times justice reporter katy benner is here and she's on

the byline we just read from. also joining us, andrew weissmann, former senior of robert mueller's special counsel investigation also joins us and former senator claire mccaskill is here all lucky for us, all msnbc contributors. andrew weissman, i've been off the grid for a couple of weeks and i searched your feed by name to know what's going on and i want you to widen the lens and take me inside. what conversation are we really having about the affidavit? it seems like releasing the whole thing in any way that is illuminating would jeopardize an ongoing criminal investigation. >> yeah. there's no question that that was not going to happen when all of this to-do about the affidavit came out. there was no way that it was going to be fully released, that is there was a concern about the classified information that was in there. there was concern about the ongoing criminal investigation and a concern about the identifying of witnesses and everything that's happened since

the search certainly raises concern about those witnesses in retaliation and interference with future witnesses. so that wasn't going to happen. where doj was sort of at its weakest is only in a footnote said, by the way, redacted version which we thought about wouldn't really be that helpful to the public, but if you think that, judge, give us an opportunity to give that to you. that's the phase we're in because if you can understand the judge's point which is the judge doesn't really know what it is that doj would propose and it needs to see how much it would be redacted and whether it's arguments and so one of the things that happened today is the judge, one, pull back a bit from his oral statements and made it clear that he actually might end up siding with the government on this issue, but also sensitive to the government of not only give me your

proposed redaxs and give me any evidence as to why this is a prop at. that seems like a natural step for the judge to hear that and unfortunately for all of us, that's going to happen exparty, meaning we won't see it unless the judge decides to unseal it. >> let me play congressman adam schiff made some points and let me play his comments to you, andrew, and get your reaction. >> you could learn what witnesses may have seen in terms of the handling of those documents or people coming and going from where the documents were located. you can whether representations were false on whether they gave up the classified information. you could learn a great deal. that's just the problem, though, for the justice department. i think probably their concern

was very legitimate and that is if this affidavit is revealed it will put those sources of information at risk and we've seen the whistle blower and accuse him of treason and the incendiary rhetoric let someone go to an fbi weapon with an assault weapon that was shot to death by the fbi in order to defend itself. so the risks are real. >> just because i don't think this should ever be normal, what schiff is just is saying and what you alluded to is there is a very real concern that the ex-president of the united states and current leader of the republican party would put sources of information at risk. we all know they're talking about physical. we've seen the president retaliate against anyone he considers a whistle-blower and accuse them of treason and it would lead to someone go to the

fbi building with an assault weapon who was shot to death by the fbi. just talk about the tinter box in which any judge or government official working on this case is having to operate. >> yeah, well, you're exactly right. in fact, the judge today in his written opinion points out that one of the charges that he found that was probable cause to believe there would be evidence of dealt with obstruction of justice 1519. so he is well aware of that evidence. he's also well aware that he personally has received death threats and there are reports that he couldn't attend religious services because of those threats. he's very aware of that, but this is something that doj and the court keeps their heads down, and i think there's no way that donald trump will do well in the court and as you said,

for a good reason he is not venturing there so he doesn't score a loss, and i think that the next move and i would be really interested in claire's position on this is that the gang of eight in congress is now seemingly going to request information and that poses yet another front for the department of justice to have to worry about, which is, okay, we probably are not going to have to turn this stuff over and risk all of the concerns about national security and into the criminal investigation and witnesses in court and is congress going to be a back door and do trump's bidding. >> so, claire, referring to the gang of eight has, in normal times, referenced the heads of the intelligence committee and the head and then the ranking member so a democrat and a republican depending on who controls congress in both chambers.

should that be happening? is that still a functioning national security safeguard in the congress? i think it's called a spill investigation, right? that both parties and the tops of both intelligence committees would be interested in finding out what secrets might have spilled out from this leak, but when the leaker is the ex-president does that still work? >> first of all, i think the intelligence committees are different from the other intelligence committees. when you're on the intelligence committee, i was not, but certainly observed that people understand that what the information you're given is not like normal, political information and remember, the intelligence committee did a pretty thorough investigations of a lot of the bad things that went on during the trump administration around national security. i think if this briefing occurred in the skiff which it should which is the room that is

protected where no one can bring in a cell phone and can't even bring in a fitbit or apple watch or anything like that and it was done in a way that the people in there understood and by the way, those people know if that information gets out it's one of them that did it and that's a very serious offense. so i'm not as concerned about that as i am all the other stuff that's going on around this case and that's not at the top of my list of concerns. >> so katie benner, you and your colleagues have amazing new reporting and i want to read mr. meadows' role in mar-a-lago. i want to play her comments. liz cheney does not think that the republican party is doing anything constructive in the sort of aftermath of this search. let me play her comments in defending the doj investigation. >> i've seen no evidence that

there was any political motivation. you've now got the judge reviewing whether or not the affidavit or portions of it will be released. i think that will provide us additional information. it also seems to be the case that there were clearly ongoing efforts to get back whatever this information was,s and that it was not -- it was not presenteds -- the former president was up unable to give back these materials xs it's a very serious thing where we are reflexively attacking career, law enforcement professionals in order to defend a former president who conducted himself the way this one did is a really sad day for the party. >> so, katie, the resignation there from liz cheney that that is what the republican is. i know from your view and inside knowledge of doj that they are

not oblivious to this and tell me what kind of toll the rhetoric on the right is taking on this investigation and these professionals. >> i think that there's a lot of caution around safety. you mentioned the attack on the fbi field office in cincinnati and we've seen witnesses attack and we've seen members of the department attack time and again both online and physical threats and these are very serious. they're not going to change the investigation and the justice department certainly does two things and one is protect sources and methods at all costs and two, we ensure the justice department in conducting its own investigation, conducts it in such a way if any part of it were to be reveal in the future, it's bulletproof as possible because the stakes are so, so high. >> i want to understand that because i think it is very important and understanding how merrick garland and lisa monaco

get to the point where they -- i don't know if permit is the right word, but they allow the folks working this case to put the documents together to get them to a judge. the case has to be bulletproof. what does that mean? >> so i think that the authorization in this case was something that lisa monaco and merrick garland felt compelled to do, and when it came to a matter of national security i think the overriding interest was, yes, they had to have their ducks in a row. yes, they had to be completely sure of each and every one of their facts and the ultimate decision to go forward was one driven less by could a criminal case come out of this and more from their duty to the country, and i can see knowing lisa and

certainly knowing merrick garland's reputation that that would be a sense of obligation and, you know, i think they probably didn't anticipate quite the reaction of the former president although they could look at what he's done, you know, heretofore, but that's something that at the department you really do steal yourself to, and i don't think it will have any effect on merrick or lisa and their decision making going forward. >> the patterns of donald trump when it comes to classified material i think we all marvelled is the wrong word, when he leaked information to lavrov, i remember h.r. mcmaster and dina powell racing out to reassure the public and reporters that trump hadn't leaked anything since they were

classified. not sure that is a fact, but you have an incredible new piece of reporting that puts all of this history together, and i want to read some of it, katie benner. you write about meadows' role specifically in standing between trump and his sticky fingers and the national security documents and you write this, meadows assured aides from the hurried packing up of the white house would follow requirements about the press vagsz of documents and he said they would make efforts that they would comply with the records act. the white house emailed all its offices detailing instructions about returning documents and cleaning up spaces. meadows followed up on those moats and encouraged offices to comply and that's according for a person -- he said he would talk to trump including one

stance here -- katie, meadows didn't have much confidence and he said he would make efforts to make sure the administration complied. he was sending it to the commercial economic counselor, the nec with the nsc they'd have sensitive information, but nothing is sensitive according to the things trump had. was there resignation that trump was squirrelling a. >> i think it's that's a fair reading, it comes after the january 6th attack on the capitol and it comes after weeks of trump denying that he lost the election, and it feels as though the ability to pack up his office and give these records back would be on his part, a concession, and in fact, he felt that he did not want to give up his power including his refusal for the transition to be in a timely fashion.

at this time there are few people outside of the white house who are willing to talk to trump about this matter and it does fall to his chief of staff, mark meadows and again, as we saw with the january 6th hearings, it is unclear based on testimony whether or not we had might pull to donald trump at that moment and it is unclear whether anybody felt that they could control him, and that said, what is important is that everybody knew what should have happened including donald trump. >> claire, what's so amazing is that, again, this was something we all witnessed at the time, treating trump like a baby whose feelings were hurt and you needed time to cool off didn't just have political consequences and it didn't just lead to the deadly insurrection. it had national security consequences. it very much led to this climate in which the chief of staff had to tiptoe around securing documents that are now connected to potential violations of the

espionage act. >> yeah. there's a reason why you went through so many chiefs of staff and why several of them have spoken out about the weirdness that is donald trump. baby is the right way to put it, nicole, he was basically behaving as you indicated in the opening as if all of the stuff were his. they're mine, you can't take them. they're mine. and mark meadows, clearly was afraid of him for whatever reason and my take on it after reading the great reporting that you guys just talked about what that place was like in the closing days after january 6th and it was time to finally clean up and get out is paging mark meadows. where is he? has anyone seen him? is he even in this country? it is weird to me that he is the one who knows the most about how those documents left the white house, whafrs in those documents, what he did to try to

stop it and, you know, that's one of many pieces of this that, frankly, is a real headscratcher. where is he? >> kate, she is the journalist here. i understood george was his lawyer and longtime republican and veteran of doj was at least handling his january 6th subpoena. do you know where mr. meadows is and is he cooperating with any of these related probes? >> mr. tuliger is his lawyer, and including in his reporting with axios by swan, meadows has been down at mar-a-lago to and fro over the last year and a half and i don't think any decisions have yet been made about what role mr. meadows can play in the ongoing justice department investigations to claire's point, he knows probably than anybody else and it's to be seen whether or not it's right to share some information and under right

circumstances. >> very quickly. don mcgahn was a similarly placed white house aide that decided that keeping secrets could amount to obstruction of justice and is the same kind of decision that meadows has to make. >> i was going to answer claire's question, and mr. toliger's office. >> he is someone who has to make a decision here and as we used to say in the department he can end up on the wrong side of the v, meaning united states versus meadows and trump, and he really needs to decide what to do because he is very much in the crosshairs and there are way too many witnesses and the white house in the closing days and i should just point out and it is a period of time in the closing days and this is not a question like donald trump is, and a lot of chaos in the last few days because that would explain why

those documents were retained for 18 months and they only partially return documents and others and the reporting that as claire said, there's direct reporting that the former president said no, these documents are mine, which think, is legally backwards. so mark meadows, i think, is one who has to make a decision and it's similar to what we're seeing with allen weisselberg and the manhattan d.a.'s office about these number twos and number threes who have to decide where their future lies. >> everyone is sticking around, and i have a million more questions for all three of you. ex-president sticky fingers had a fetish for a certain file and we'll see what happened to that. also, when we come back, three-fifths of all americans would like to see investigations into the ex-president continue to their logical end, and why shouldn't they? democracies do and should hold former politicians accountable

for bad behavior all of the time. we'll deal with that next. plus gop senate candidates are struggling, oh, boo hoo, with less than three months until the midterm election and they have a money problem on their hands with electing republicans to the u.s. senate and is facing calls with an audit and later in the program, january 6th select committee member adam schiff joins us and the big question surrounding the investigation into the capitol insurrection and whether the 1/6 select committee will call the two most instrumental figures of the story of january 6th and the twice-impeached president, mike pence and all those stories and more when deadline white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. (woman vo) sailing a great river

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>> we're back with everyone. i want to do two things with all of you. i want to go through the time line. this is what we understand about this investigation in mid-january, 2022 the national archives retrieves 15 boxes of documents and there are some pictures of that undignified handling of state secrets. in february 2022 the national archives asked doj to investigate ostensibly what doesn't come back. in the spring of 2022 white house deputy council patrick philbin who is now known to all of us because of his taped depositions with the 1/6 committee and cipollone is also interviewed and we don't know exactly when. june 3rd, the fbi and senior toj officials meet with lawyers in mar-a-lago. trump is there, we understand. doj asked for the second lock on

the storage door. doj subpoenas for surveillance footage and doj applies for warrant and august 8th and the fbi searches mar-a-lago. this is put together from nbc reporting, washington journal reporting, new york times reporting. katie benner, what do we understand that philbin and cipollone are interviewed about the documents and philbin and cipollone are so central to the investigations into the insurrection itself? how much -- how much time are philbin and cipollone spending at doj? >> well, in this matter they'll be talking about the documents and handling of documents and they'll be able to give a very close look about the handling of documents and whether or not it was being appropriately handled. we know from our reporting that both men for a long time felt that donald trump's handling of documents, classified and otherwise could be problematic and that his treatment of them

and his unwillingness to return them could be problematic and i'm sure that if they were going to be honest they would have middle that to investigators. >> andrew, keep talking about classified documents and you've got important distinctions in terms of criminality with the classifications. explain that. >> yeah. could i first just make one point about cipollone and philbin? >> please. >> which is they are two of the seven people who were denominated by the former president as his representatives to the national archives so the fact that they were interviewed makes total sense because this was the ball that they were tasked with carrying and i would imagine that doj reached out to the other serve people, which by the way, mark meadows is one and in your time line the other thing i would note is that in june of 2022, just at the time

of reaching out by doj, it appears that all seven were replaced by john solomon and kash patel and that was done by the former president and it was just a very interesting confluence and there's a reason that those two people were interviewed by doj and i think that's again, just two of what i would strongly suspect is their attempt to try and talk to all seven. >> no -- >> go ahead. >> you were general counsel to the fbi. there were deputy counsels and deputy general counsels to the office of the presidency. do they have skin in the game? do they have legal exposure if they're not on the side of trying to protect u.s. national security in terms of the handling and chain of command of the handling of those documents? >> they might not have a legal exposure if they were trying to

do the right thing and the reporting from "the new york times" is that they were, patrick philbin has been trying to get those documents back and this is not a hard call. having been the general counsel of the fbi, we had to comply with the records act and we had a whole protocol in place and the director of the fbi bob mueller knew exactly what to do and comply with the rules. this is an easy one and not a lot of gray. these documents don't belong to the individual person and they belong to the government. it's not giving them back. you turn them into personal custody, the former president and they're supposed to be given directly to the national archives, which, by the way, pointedly the vice president said he did and had enough time to do. >> and then go ahead and finish your other point on the time line. >> okay. so just on your question about

ask a lot of people have made the point that the statutes don't particular nickly require them to be classified which is true, and of course, the property exists whether the material is classified or not, but i also think it's largely irrelevant whether the documents were declassified by the president on the way out the door because the national security interests of top-secret compartmentalized information stayed the same whether the label had been taken off by the president or not. in other words, a rose by any other name isn't as sweet, by the internal doj perspective in deciding whether to charge this, i would strongly suspect that people like lisa garland and minute co are going to see it that way. >> because this has been in the

news for two weeks there are a lot of very specific and technical conversations and investigative reporting happening. seeing this on local paper and headlines i literally whipped around one day when i saw at the checkout, ex-president steals security secrets. of course, he did, but it's still a holy [ bleep ], fill in your favorite swear word. what are we to do about the stakes of getting this right? of course, no one at the senate and no one at the fbi and no one can steal classified documents and here we are again talking about whether the records act and the national security and the national archives rules and guidelines will in the end apply to donald j. trump. >> well, it's hard because we don't know all the facts. we know a lot based on the time line that you present just a few weeks ago, nicole. a couple of questions i have is

why did it take the national archives a whole year to sound the alarm that this guy had documents that he shouldn't and why did they wait so long and be so patient for him to return what he did return and then there's also a very important issue that we haven't talked about today and that is who is the lawyer that signed the document that said all of them had been returned prior to this search warrant. if that lawyer is christina bobb. that poor woman that went to court and asked someone where she should go, i'm not sure this woman had been inside a federal courtroom as a first-chair attorney in any legal matter and sits there mutely while trump is claiming that he wants it released and the judge noted that in the document that he put out today that trump didn't ask for the affidavit to be released. so there is a lot of exposure for whatever lawyer signed that document and under what

circumstances that lawyer signed that document. i think that is one of the mysteries that we are all waiting to see solved and maybe we will if part of the affidavit is released and that's a key part of it and he doesn't have real lawyers at this point. >> katie benner, i'm going to say was sydney powell busy? who is representing donald trump in this? >> jim trustee is the well-respected lawyer with a good reputation. he's expected to file the court asking the court to appoint a special master to appoint the materials that the justice department has taken to mar-a-lago, so donald trump has found somebody who is probably a little bit more adept in the courtroom than christina. >> one of claire's mysteries

solved. >> katie benner, thank you for joining us to tack about it. andrew weissmann and thank you for being here and answering my questions. claire sticks around. up next for us, the midterms are getting closer and the political panel is next. don't go anywhere. l is next. don't go anywhere. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis help make trading feel effortless and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market with powerful, easy-to-use tools

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>> this week, witness boastful republican senate candidates have more reasons to be concerned about their chances of

taking back control of the u.s. senate. on top of what continues to be very bad polling among some of their from the right's must-wing nominees and mitch mcconnell lowering expectation very publicly on the prospect of victory. there's now this, a cash crunch. republican senate campaigns now have less than half the cash on hand that democrat campaigns have. washington post reports campaign advisors panicking demanding an audit for the national republican senatorial committee after it canceled tv ads in the key states of pennsylvania, wisconsin and arizona and national republican consultant working on senate races tells the post this, quote, if there were a corporation, there needs to be an audit or investigation because we're not going to take the senate now and this money has been squandered. it's a respectoff.

tim miller author of the book "why we did it. the travel log from the republican road from hell," plus white house press secretary robert gibbs is here and claire mccaskill is still with us. so maybe, maybe robert gibbs, maybe it's the money, right? maybe someone bought themselves a tanning bet or something and blake masters, dr. oz, marco rubio, herschel walker and j.d., people in violent marriages should enjoy them for the kids' sake. vance, i don't know. >> nicole, in the end, candidate quality is what's ultimately going to decide a lot of these races and as you've seen and talked about and this article demonstrates these are candidates not performing well in the stump and by and large some of them are dodging debates and they're not raising money like they should be and this money is not going to the ads

that should be communicating their message. campaign committees and super pacs can certainly help, but the lowest unit cost for an ad is through a campaign committee and if these candidates aren't doing what they need to do, you're essentially paying a lot more money to communicate with voters than you otherwise would and i think democrats in a lot of these races, rafael warnock, we've seen ryan in ohio and a lot of these places are running very, very smart campaigns in any ways that the democrats can make competitive gives a chance for democrats to hold the senate. >> robert gebs, how much is the party aligning itself with the insurrectionists and insurrection changed the landscape in a way a lot of people didn't think it would on and around january 6th. >> you've seen this in the poll that democracy has crept up to

be the top concern for voters in polls and while some thought this was some type of a esoteric issue and i was among some of them particularly when inflation was a much higher issue and it still remains salient, but i think as you've seen more and more campaigns in arizona, gubernatorial races in michigan and congressional races in wyoming and the airways and the newsways have been flooded with examples with people denying elections. this isn't something that quite frankly, feels removed anymore because candidate after candidate, nominee after nominee is going through the process in proclaiming that the race for president in 2020 was stolen and so all of a sudden it's become more real because those candidates are giving it voice, and even as they seek to talk about issues that voters are, quote, unquote concerned about and two years ago when no one has come up with any evidence

undermines the whole idea that they're talking about issues that are of utmost concern. >> think it is a fascinating sort of, you know, if elections are a kaleidoscope and the reason that folks like robert and tim are sought after by candidates is because you never know what events are going to shape the mood of a veteran election day and the plot twist no one could see coming is they went inside democracy. the reason democracy is such a big issue is because one of the two parties have not stood up to protect it or pretend to do so. how much do candidates like mastriano and lake are doing to hurt the brand? >> they're hurting it quite a bit, and i think robert makes a great point about how this money needs to come into candidate committees and they're not particularly very strong. i think kari lake has raised a good amount of money and she's

not insane and using the trump playbook and the fund-raising apparatus was always two-pronged, right? one is it was grassroots and bottom up and from wealthier country club donors and they're not opening their checkbooks for these insane candidates and guess what's happening with the grassroots money. the nrsc, i can tell them where their money is. it's down in mar-a-lago. trump has raised tens of millions of dollars this cycle with his fake -- his attackses on the fbi and his fake arguments about the 2020 election and all of his complaints and any of us on the republican campaign list and let's get all of the emails and texts from donald trump. he's hoarding all that money. he's not using it to help blake masters in arizona or to help dr. oz. all he wanted to do was punish the people that didn't want to go along with his lie and so the republicans are dealing with you

have the extreme candidates that can't raise any establishment corporate money and the grassroots money is being sucked down into mar-a-lago and now they're wondering well, where's all the money? >> claire, i don't know how much money it would take to erase a party that is against the democracy and state-forced -- for a rape victim. >> the polling out today that's most fascinating to me is the change in enthusiasm level among democrats. back in march and mid-terms are always hard about enthusiasm and that's why traditionally the mid-term elections have not been favorable to the sitting president because there's a sense of well, we got our eye in. midterms don't matter that much. this is an example this year where that has been turned on its head and tim is so smart because he said exactly the two things i was going to say.

corporate money is afraid of these maga candidates and secondly, the grassroots money is going to the big baby down at mar-a-lago, donald trump, who cares more about monetizing the presidency than he does about this country and the third thing is the grassroots money on our side is lit up right now. >> yeah. women all over america want to help beazley, and call of these candidates out there that they know will go and try to codify roe v. wade and try to counterbalance these crazy statutes that republican state legislators are trying to put into place in state after state after state across the country. >> we have to sneak in a break and i want to get tim and robert gibbs on the enthusiasm gap and what, precisely is getting and keeping democrats excited about the midterms and their chances. we'll be right back.

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it followed me everywhere. so i consolidated it into a low-rate personal loan from sofi. get a personal loan with no fees, low fixed rates, and borrow up to $100k. sofi. get your money right. we just moved. so there's millions of - dahlias in bloom. over nine acres. when we started, we grew a quarter of an acre. now i'm taking on new projects on the regular. there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. learn more at deere.com . as claire has already alluded to, a new nbc news poll finds democrats have closed that voter enthusiasm gap with 66% of democratic voters expressing a high level of interest in the upcoming election, compared to 68% of republicans. everyone's back. claire, i want to come back to this idea. i also have to share with you marco rubio's boohoo email.

he writes this. "earlier this week, i fell short of my mid-month goal. this is a disaster since a poll on tuesday showed me losing to a former trump impeachment manager. my opponent is gaining momentum and i really need your support. please, i'm begging." even if this works, and even if this is all true, i haven't worked in campaigns for a while, tim and is robert are more recent veterans of the trenches, but i've never known this sort of pathetic groveling or weakness to work. what is he doing? >> well, first of all, unfortunately, that pathetic weakness and groveling has become all too common place, and by the way, that number was just made up by somebody. there was no goal. there was no 3,440 -- i mean, that's just total fantasyland, crazy silliness. he is sounding an alarm. they're trying to motivate their folks, and that's not unusual. maybe he's taken it a little too

far for somebody who's a sitting u.s. senator, who's supposedly in a confident position and supposedly a red state, but it is true that the dobbs decision and what happened around roe v. wade and that shooting, another school shooting, with innocent children slaughtered, and the republican party refusing to acknowledge there's gun safety measures that could make a difference, that's motivating a lot of suburban voters, and those people have some money. they have 50 bucks to give to candidates they care about, and they're doing it. >> they're doing it in ohio too. the super pac linked to mitch mcconnell announced a $28 million rescue effort in ohio where gop candidate jd vance raised a dismal $1 million in the second quarter. so, in the second quarter, i believe that is when jd vance articulated a world view that includes women staying in violent marriages and relationships.

he didn't get caught saying it. it wasn't a gotcha. it was an interview with someone he looked very, very comfortable with when he said it. again, are we covering a cash crunch when we should really be covering a moral collapse on the right, robert gibbs? >> yeah, i do think there's a lot of, as you said, interviews that are happening and people that are saying maybe what they kept privately in the bubble box over their head before, but seems to be escaping from their mouths as part of their platforms right now. i think -- but i think that claire's point, what it does is it just gets people on the democratic side more fired up to go out and do something about the statements that those candidates make. i think the enthusiasm gap is the most interesting part of all the data that you saw in that nbc news poll. it certainly started with that may 2nd leak of the dobbs decision by the supreme court, but as claire mentions, there's

now example after example of things that have begun to get more and more people interested and excited in voting. it's these interviews that you talk about. it's candidates that regularly deny democracy or deny that elections have been run fairly. all of it just continuing to add up, and you know, now we're just 11 weeks away, democrats are in a really strong position in the senate, and i would mention, too, lastly, those enthusiasm numbers seem to walk us away from this idea that there's going to be a wave election. generally, when you see enthusiasm gaps that are that close, you don't have wave elections. the wave elections we've seen more recently have enthusiasm gaps that are much, much wider. >> so, tim, i participated in expectation lowering as all four of us have, having worked on campaigns, but that's not what this is. mcconnell told nbc last week, "i think there's probably a greater likelihood the house flips than the senate. senate races are different. they're statewide. candidate quality has a lot to

do with outcome." that is sort of his ted lasso "believe" moment over the democratic senate campaign headquarters. what do you think that does? how does that play out on the ground in these battleground states? >> yeah, that sounded, to me, for starters, like a defeated senate majority leader who knows that he didn't get the candidates that he wanted, and he was complaining about it, not someone playing three dimensional chess or expectations lowering, and i think that the money that you just mentioned is putting -- is demonstrating that's a fact. look, there is no reason that the republican national senate committee should be sending money into ohio, a state donald trump won by almost double digits. they never would have expected to have to do that except that jd vance is such an abysmal person and candidate, so they feel forced to do so, while tim ryan is running a really great campaign, targeting these trump voters and talking about issues that matter to them. remember, many of them were obama to trump, blue-collar, union-type voters.

tim ryan's running a great campaign reaching them. so, mcconnell seemed defeated, and i think that is -- it's just the reality of their situation right now, not that they definitely will lose, but that mitch mcconnell feels like his hopes of a wave year when they might have a 53, 54 senate majority are going away and he's in for a trench warfare fight where he's got to defend ohio instead of going on offense into blue states like colorado or new hampshire. >> it is amazing. tim miller, robert gibbs, claire mccaskill, thank you so much for spending time with us today. we want more on that new nbc news poll. threats to democracy breaking through as the top issue for americans. congressman adam schiff will be our guest. don't go anywhere. f will be r ouguest. don't go anywhere. e*trade's easy-to-use tools like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis help make trading feel effortless and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market with powerful, easy-to-use tools power e*trade makes complex trading easier

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warrant. i, you know, was disgusted when i learned that president trump had released the names of those agents, when he released the unredacted search warrant, and that has now caused violence. we've seen threats of violence. the judge himself, his synagogue had to cancel services because of threats of violence. this is a really dangerous moment. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. we'll repeat what liz just said because we agree with her. it's a really dangerous moment. whether it's the response to the fbi search of mar-a-lago or to the investigation into the january 6th insurrection, it seems the closer anyone ever gets to the truth in those pursuits, the greater the threat to our democracy and to our way of life as a whole. this afternoon, though, there's a brand-new poll, a rosetta stone of sorts from nbc news, and it provides a clearer look into how people view this moment

in time. perhaps encouragingly for all of us, americans broadly seem to be coming around to the idea that we, right now, face an existential crisis. threats to our democracy surpassed cost of living as the top issue facing our country for voters. that threat matters to a larger share of americans, and questions about jobs and the economy, immigration, climate change, guns, abortion, or crime. wow. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell was asked to respond to this fact, this new result in a poll earlier today. here are some of what he had to say. >> i do think it's an important issue. i mean, we saw, between the november 3rd and january 20th changing of one administration for another, there were those who were trying to prevent the orderly transfer of power for the first time in american history. but look, i think we have a very

solid democracy. very little election fraud. there is some, but our democracy is solid, and i don't think of the things that we need to worry about, i wouldn't be worried about that one. >> too little, too late, mitch. and whether or not you buy his answer, it's apparent a primary source of anxiety surrounding the health of our democracy is donald trump and the people around him and the people who enable him. the republicans who enable him. the considerable risk inherent in investigating a man who lies to fire up and anger his base has been top of mind all along, but today, today, it appears the american people are ready to face it head on. 57% of all registered voters say the investigations into alleged wrongdoing by trump should continue. 40% say they should stop. many elected gop officials have insisted, honestly or dishonestly, these

investigations are partisan in nature or entirely political. now, our friend at the "washington post," charles blow, suggests this. "we must stop thinking it is hyperbolic to say that the republican party itself is now a threat to our democracy. i understand the queasiness about labeling many of our fellow americans in that way. i understand that it sounds extreme and overreaching. but how else are we to describe what we are seeing? republicans are the threat to our democracy, because their own preferred form of democracy, one that excludes and suppresses, giving republicans a fighting chance of maintaining control, is in danger. for modern republicans, democracy only works and is only worth it when and if they win." it's where we begin the hour with congressman adam schiff of california, the chairman of the house intelligence committee, as well as a member of the house select committee on january 6th. his book covered a lot of this ground, "midnight in washington: how we almost lost our democracy and still could."

it is now just out in paperback, easier to stash into your beach bag if that's your plan for the remaining days of summer. congressman, thank you so much for being here. in the last hour, we played your comments about the affidavit and your concerns about potentially jeopardizing sources and methods to the kind of attacks that are unique and specific to donald trump and have nothing to do, bear no resemblance to any former president but only to former mob bosses and criminal organizations. we played your comments and stepped back and evaluated them in that context, but i wonder if you could just react to how not normal it is that our concerns about the affidavit aren't just about endangering an ongoing criminal probe. it's about endangering the lives of the witnesses. >> well, it is really striking, and like so many things over the last several years, we can't quite wrap our head around it, but you have a former president who is literally willing to pull the whole house down around him if he feels threatened, and that

means false accusations that the fbi is corrupt, false accusations that evidence may be plenty, and when someone is incited by these kind of attacks and shows up at an fbi building armed to the teeth and is shot to death because he was a threat to the fbi agents inside, it doesn't stop the former president, and it is just astounding. you know, at one level, i'm grateful that this is now a top issue for the american people and wide recognition of it. at the same time, who would have thought that the dominant danger to our democracy would now come from within? but it does. >> i remember when your -- when the hard cover edition of your book came out and i had a chance to talk to you, and i asked if you felt like enough was being done to protect and preserve democracy, and when you look at the poll number, i mean, it doesn't come out of thin air. it comes very much, i believe, from the work of this select

committee on which you serve. can you just talk about the success of the public hearings and helping people understand, in the words of trump's closest i'd aides and advisors, just how very specifically he threatened our democracy? >> well, i do think those hearings have broken through in a way that congressional hearings really haven't in a very long time. and it's because the members of the committee, democrats and republicans, all have the same objective of getting the truth out. so, there hasn't been, you know, members attacking each other, members grandstanding. the witnesses have been allowed to speak, and of course, so many of these witnesses were the president's own people, members of his own party, and what i think really stands out among the volume of those hearings are a few things. one was the former president on january 6th, on the mall, being told that many of his supporters won't go through the metal detectors because they're armed, and they don't want to have to give up their weapons, and his response is, then take down the

magnetometers. they're not there to hurt him, he says. and you know, as a former prosecutor, you look for evidence of intent, evidence of knowledge, and that is just crystal clear. likewise, testimony we had of a meeting in the white house, donald trump, some of the top justice department people, people he appointed, and he's rattling off different bogus allegations of fraud, and they're basically telling him it's all bs, and then he concludes by saying, well, just say the election is corrupt, and leave it to me and the republicans, something that is an indictment both of him and of my republican colleagues. >> the public hearings pause. i think that's the word you all use. after that -- this sort of final one of the summer sessions, and i want to play you something that liz cheney said about the committee's or her interest in mike pence.

>> so, let's talk about the committee. one of the key figures here is obviously mike pence. he said this week he's willing or willing to consider testifying if he is asked. are you going to ask him? >> we've been in discussions with his counsel. when the country has been through something as grave as this was, everyone who has information has an obligation to step forward. so, i would hope that he will do that. >> so, you think we'll see him here in september in this room before the committee? >> i would hope -- well, i would hope that he will understand how important it is for the american people to know every aspect of the truth about what happened that day. >> the truth of what happened, the evidence the committee produced, is that donald trump is indifferent to his own supporters trying to kill his vice president. how important is it to hear from him what that day was like? >> i think it's very important to not only hear from him what that day was like, but there may

very well information the vice president has about who was reaching out to him, what they were saying, that we don't know. so, he could shed additional light to congress's understanding, more importantly, to the understanding of the american people. the vice president has raised concerns about the separation of powers or executive privilege. but let's be clear about something. if the vice president wants to come before congress, he could do so. there's nothing preventing a vice president from voluntarily deciding, as indeed joe biden has by not asserting executive privilege, these matters are simply too important, too important for me to avoid sharing what i know with the american people. so, i agree with liz cheney. i hope, given the centrality of his role -- and he upheld the constitution on that day -- he should want to come forward. >> there isn't anyone who says on or off the record that the concerns are anything other than political, that pence wants to be president more than anything else, and he doesn't think he

can become president if he helps the committee. in terms of being able to testify to these really central questions about who was acting as our country's commander in chief that day, who was talking to the pentagon, who was dealing with the threat to our democracy, how would you evaluate someone who wanted to be president but wouldn't give a full account of who was the country's commander in chief when it came under attack? >> well, i think it's a very important question. if we've learned anything over the last several years, it is the most important we have to look for in elected officials is, what is their character? my takeaway after two impeachments and an insurrection is, you can have the best drafted constitution in the world, and i believe we do, but if people don't give meaning to their oath of office, if they're not committed to serving, if they're not willing to put the country first, none of it really works. so, this is another test for the vice president. is he willing to come forward? is he willing to put the interests of the public first, rather than whatever political

considerations may go into his desire to run for president in the future? >> claire mccaskill, former senator, and former fbi general counsel and former mueller prosecutor andrew weissmann made a point in the last hour about something i wanted your thoughts on from your sort of intelligence perch. they suggested that a group of eight session to really understand the classified material that made its way to mar-a-lago and may have spilled or may have been shared or, i guess, worst case scenario is sold or transacted, would be in the purview of and in the interest of the gang of eight. are those conversations under way for a briefing? >> you know, there was a report that the gang of eight requested a briefing on the affidavit or the other materials. there's no question that i'm aware of that has come from us. individual members of the gang of eight have expressed interest in learning more. i've requested a damage assessment by the director. i would also like to see and

have our committee be able to review what documents were obtained, and in particular, if there was a danger to sources and methods, and the documents weren't top secret, sensitive, compartment information, that's a source of damage. in our oversight responsibility, i think it's important for that to be shared with us, but i also recognize the justice department has a deep interest in pursuing justice. we have a deep interest in making sure they can do so successfully. so, it may be more sharing with us information about what's contained and the risk than, for example, the actual affidavit. >> what -- you know, i feel like you have been on the front lines of trying to protect u.s. national security, not from things trump wanted to do, but the things he did do. extorting zelenskyy for dirt on joe biden, fueling and inciting

a deadly insurrection, doing nothing while it raged on. in your years on the intelligence committee, trying to understand his campaign shared mission with russia. what do you -- what do you think when you -- i mean, i assume, and i have seen some of your interviews, that the search was news to you. but it seems like the natural extension of no one ever successfully holding him accountable. what do you think when you see the reports of what may have been compromised and of his dominance still in the gop? >> well, we have seen a pattern with donald trump, and that is when he's not held accountable, he goes on to commit worse misconduct. he wasn't held accountable for his russia misconduct that led to ukraine. he wasn't held accountable for the worst misconduct in ukraine that led to a literal attack on our democracy on january 6th. if he's not held accountable and ever given an opportunity to exercise power again, we can

expect things that are and were still. we are forewarned about this man. we always knew the importance of character in the oval office, but we didn't really know until we had someone without character occupy that office. so, i have to think that whatever motivation brought those documents to mar-a-lago had nothing to do with the president wanting to do his homework or the national security needs of the country. there's only one thing that's ever been important to donald trump, and that is donald trump. and that's just -- ought to be an utter disqualification from office. >> we started by sharing the polls about democracy. it's the -- we've discussed the topic of the book you wrote that came out sort of shortly after these really traumatic events for the country. what does a conversation about protecting our democracy look like without the poison, without the toxicity of one of the two parties acting like they're not for that? it used to be this thing that united everybody.

>> you know, it used to be and needs to be again. i think it will be again but probably not until donald trump passes from the scene. as long as he's the dominant voice in that party, it's hard to imagine americans coming together around strengthening and bolstering our institutions once again. it certainly has to begin with the repudiation of this big lie about our elections. the lesson that donald trump seemed to have taken away from the last election is, if he couldn't find someone in the secretary of state's office who would come up with 11,780 votes that don't exist, he's determined to have someone in that position next time and others who will. for that reason, we find ourselves even at greater risk as a democracy today than on january 6th. as long as the republican party venerates people like victor or ban and wants to follow the hungarian model, which is a

model of dissolution of democracy, we're in jeopardy. it's hard to come together and combat that as long as he has that strangle hold on the party. >> we are always grateful to talk to you, but especially on a day like today. thank you so much for starting us off this hour. when we come back, our panel will join us to discuss what we've heard from the congressman, as well as what democrats need to do now that the american public views trump and the republicans' constant onslaught of attacks against our democracy as a top issue. later in the hour, six months into russia's war in ukraine, and the need to help children of ukraine is dire. two-thirds of that country's children have been forced to leave their homes. money for schools is being used to defend the nation at war. our good friend, dr. irwin redlener, and actor michael keaton will be our guests around the table to talk about what is being done and how you and i can help. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. sfloept tinues after a quick eabrk. sfloep "peace of mind." such a big, beautiful idea. and for us at booking.com this means -

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you're starting this political organization. what can you tell us? what are you going to do? >> i'm going to be very focused on working to ensure that we do everything we can, not to elect election deniers and i'm going to work against those people. i'm going to work to support their opponents. i think it matters that much. >> will you be getting involved in campaigns against those republican candidates that are challenging or denying the results of the election? >> yes. >> including your republican colleagues here in congress? >> yes. >> yes. the answer was, yes. additional details there in that

great interview with liz cheney from jon karl and there's more in the "wall street journal." "ms. cheney's stature as a leading critic of trump and her presumed ability to raise money have generated broad interest in her next steps in politics. if she took action this year, her comments could transfer into support for democratic candidates in some races in states including nevada, pennsylvania, and arizona, republican nominees winning for congress as well as for statewide offices such as secretary and state and governor, have promoted the idea that the 2020 election was stolen and that president biden is an illegitimate president. joining us now, democratic strategist and director of the public policy program at hunter college, our friend basil smikle is back. also joining us, former republican congressman david jolly, now an msnbc political analyst and kimberly atkins stohr is here, focusing on racial equity and justice, also an msnbc contributor. i want to start with why this

matters. liz cheney is a conservative's conservative, far-right conservative on a lot of issues that i know our viewers care a lot about, on guns, on abortion, on all that. but she has taken on trump in a manner that, in terms of the way she talks about it, is the same way she talked about the threat of foreign terrorism in the wake of 9/11, and david jolly, when she says, yes, i'm going to help defeat election deniers, that means one thing. she's going to try to prevent people like doug mastriano or kelly lake from ever holding office, and that matters. >> it hearts a lot, and for a reason that i will get to, which is this. the bear that liz cheney is now wrestling with that is that of the republican party and honestly of her own participation in the party. does she remain a republican? does she not? the cheney lane of the republican party is a dead-end, electorally. it's going nowhere. there's no reclaiming the party.

so, to hear liz cheney say, look, instead of telling you that i'm going to chase another office, what i'm telling you is i'm going to spend my time, my talent, and my resources spotlighting the election deniers within our own party. that is a cause. and the reason it's so important is this, nicole. there is not a lot of like-mindedness between liz cheney and democrats. democrats also are saying, we want to defeat election deniers. but the critical role of liz cheney is that you have someone from within the camp, the gop camp, saying, we have election deniers, anti-democratic, pro-authoritarian actors within the republican party, and i'm going to work to defeat them. and even though there may not be an electoral outcome for her, what i would suggest to republicans, democrat, and independents is this. imagine a world in which liz cheney, adam kinzinger, and the other voices within that lane don't actually exist. it's a very dark world. so, kudos to liz cheney for recognizing, i may not have an

office, but i haven't lost my voice. and that's what we're hearing from her right now. >> and i think, basil, david said it more elegantly. i'll say it a little more bluntly. liz cheney helps republicans lose and democrats win because she makes moderate swing voters not want to vote at all or not want to vote for the extremists who threaten our country. it is not the whole reason, but it contributes to the fact that threats to our democracy are associated with the republican party and are now atop the issues of voter concerns. >> no, that's absolutely right, and to david's point earlier, listen, i watched that interview, and one of the things that liz cheney pointed out is not -- she didn't just talk about republicans broadly, but she talked about leaders in her own state, and to me, what that suggests is that she understands the herculean task at hand, which is that what we're seeing in this kind of division is not what we used to think or believe, which is that it was

just in washington and confined to members of congress. this is happening in states where folks like me and others are, you know, waking up and listening to republicans run for office in our states and saying, where did that person come from? where did this line of reasoning come from in a state that we thought was -- may have been different? so, she is clearly understanding the herculean task at hand. listen, i have to be real here. i have no illusions that she's going to end up tackling issues like voter suppression, you know, that so many of us care deeply about. maybe she does, i don't know. but it's a long -- it's a long, long process. it's a generational change in our policies and in our governance that she has to tackle. i'm here for it. i'm here for her, you know, as an ally, because we've been in this fight for a long time, uh but i just hope that it is not

something that ends when her potential presidential ambitions, perhaps, subside. this really is a long-term fight that is worth fighting. >> yeah, i mean, basil, let me just follow up with you. she has not been anywhere on the 486 voter suppression laws racing through 48 states, predicated on the same big lie she has now lost her seat fighting against. that said, her attacks may keep the raphael warnocks in the u.s. senate so he can be on the winning side of a vote to pass federal voting rights legislation. right? it's a bank shot, if you look at it as david jolly said, electorally. >> well, and listen, you talked about marco rubio earlier in your show. i don't buy that marco rubio is doing as badly as he says he is, but i can believe that val demings is doing better than he thought she would. and if liz cheney can add to some of that momentum, to help, you know, stacey abrams have

coattails and rafael warnock, val demings, and so many others across the country get coat tails then it is all for the better to keep other folks, particularly election deniers, out of office. when you add that to the ballot measures in kansas, and there are more ballot measures on reproductive rights coming up, when you add to that all of these other opportunities to mobilize, yes, it absolutely does help. >> i just want to sort of throw this out there for you, kim. there's a human -- so, liz cheney is where i was in '08 when i had the life-changing experience of working for the mccain-palin ticket, and it is where my disillusionment began. i didn't vote for the republicans, and i now -- voting for hillary clinton was the easiest vote i've ever cast because she was running against

a threat to our country and our democracy, and i derived no pleasure in taking on the party i worked for, but i had 15 years to get used to it. you were called a traitor, the attacks that republicans hold out for people that were in the coalition are the most vicious. i remember when rush -- what was his name? limbaugh. did a whole thing. he had tons of listeners, about, what happened to her? i was a contributor on cbs. so, liz is sort of going through something, and it's about shedding your skin. it's about losing who you once were, and as david said, there is no path to doing what i thought liz thought she would do the rest of her life, holding office as a republican, ever again. >> yeah. there likely is not that path unless there is a tremendous, you know, moment for the republican party where they decide a completely different path, and that doesn't seem to at least be a possibility in the short-term. look, i think liz cheney has

discovered through her work on the committee and through the public reaction to her work on the january 6th committee, that she does have a voice. she's not simply an anti-trump incumbent on a ticket at the end of her career, and she has to figure out not just what's next for her but the importance that i do believe that she sees in this threat to the -- to democracy, how she can best use her voice in that, how she can best move forward. it seems clear that having a political action committee is an easy decision to make and moving forward to support candidates that support democracy. but that certainly won't be the end of it. if it's a candidacy. one thing i do believe, i hope that i can believe her, in that interview, is that she said she wouldn't do anything that would simply elevate herself if it didn't serve the cause of advancing democracy. so, one thing i wouldn't want to

see is just a presidential campaign that can undermine the work that she's already done. she said she wouldn't run for an office that she wouldn't want to win, that she didn't believe that she could win. so, i think in this sense, she is not just shedding her skin. she is trying to seize this moment, seize the power that she knows that she has, and use it for -- in furtherance of protecting the democracy. >> so, kim, let me follow up with coming at this from the other end. how do democrats use her advocacy for democracy and her, you know, i don't know what weapon to call it, the cudgel that she takes against republicans with such finesse. how do they deploy that not just to protect the democracy but to elect the kinds of politicians, democrats, who will help them do that? >> i think they could begin by following her lead. i mean, recall, back in 2019, during the beginning of the first impeachment inquiry against donald trump, when nancy pelosi recited the story about ben franklin being asked what

kind of government we would have, and he said, a republic if you can keep it, she was mocked. democrats didn't want to speak about that. they were afraid that, oh, that's a divisive issue. it's not a kitchen table issue. it's not what voters want. they'll alienate this group or that. they have had this trouble for such a long time. i think at the very least, they can look at congresswoman cheney, and she's still a congresswoman until january, congresswoman cheney, the way she speaks very plainly and very matter of factly of the threat to our democracy that we are seeing right now and begin there. clearly, if the polling you talked about shows that americans care about that, citizens care about that, and democrats need to stop acting like the only thing they can talk about is inflation. this is important. >> the threats to democracy are sort of ushering in something just as scary, and that is threats to the people, the human beings, not just in washington but out in the country that work

for these institutions that trump and his republican enablers attack. and i wonder, david jolly, your thoughts about liz who, at the state department, had a whole lot to say and do about deradicalization. i mean, her whole sort of portfolio in the post-9/11 state department was about following president bush's edict that we were not at war with any religion. we were simply looking for people that threatened our country and they were named, and you know, she sort of talked about the republican party as the same threat to our security. she talks about the insurrection, and she talked about the violence. she got right up there with cassidy hutchinson in wanting to understand exactly what meadows and trump know about the violence, about the weapons, about taking down the mags. when you see the attack at an fbi field office, what do you think she can do to help secure the homeland now? >> yeah, that's probably the most important context you could lay on this, nicole, which is, we've seen in a republican party

the radicalization of its base, its voters, and the american people against democracy itself. it led to violence and death during the events of january 6th. it led to threats against the fbi just in the last few weeks. and it will lead to greater violence and possibly bloodshed if it is left unchecked. and i think what liz cheney has said is, her cause now is to root that out. whether or not she will be successful is an important question, but i think it ties into your previous question. what do democrats do in this environment? and i say that because of this. the greatest coalition, voting coalition in the united states right now is the coalition we saw in '18 and '20 that stopped donald trump. it was led by democrats, but it included disaffected republicans and disaffected independents. those are the voters that liz cheney speaks to. she got 30% of the vote in wyoming. she lost by 40 points. but 30% of republicans say, i want liz cheney's view of america, and i would say to my democratic friends, those voters

are available to you. so, liz cheney is saying, i'm not going to do anything that will topple democracy. but i would say to democrats, don't take liz cheney's voters for granted. bring them along in this cause to deradicalize the country, protect democracy going forward. democrats are leading in this moment. but they've got to get over 50%, and you do that with the disaffected republicans and independents. please don't leave them behind. look at liz cheney's voters more than you're looking at liz cheney herself. >> yeah, and especially, i would add, you know, in ohio and in georgia where tim ryan is running really close, and as tim miller said, a state that trump won by double digits, where raphael warnock is ahead, especially in places where they can help send democrats to the u.s. senate. basil, david, kim, thank you so much for starting us off today. when we come back, the horrors of russia's brutal war in ukraine and the special and

heinous toll it is taking on that country's children. our friend, dr. irwin redlener, is just back from ukraine. he'll join us along with actor michael keaton to talk about what can be done to help ukraine's most vulnerable. e donp ukraine's most vulnerable. the unknown is not empty.

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amazing matchups. let's go! a new era begins. thursday night football, only on prime video. large out-of-state corporations have set hydration beyond the hype. their sights on california. they've written prop 27, to allow online sports betting. they tell us it will fund programs for the homeless. but read prop 27's fine print. 90% of profits go to out-of-state corporations, leaving almost nothing for the homeless. no real jobs are created here.

but the promise between our state and our sovereign tribes would be broken forever. these out-of-state corporations don't care about california. but we do. stand with us. we're here today to set the record straight about dupuytren's contracture. surgery is not your only treatment option. people may think their contracture has to be severe to be treated, but it doesn't. visit findahandspecialist.com today to get started. tensions are escalating between ukraine and russia as we approach the sixth month of russia's invasion this week. over the weekend, the daughter of a prominent russian ultranationalist widely referred to as putin's brain and top

strategist, was killed during a car bomb attack in a small village near moscow. russia's fsb security agency has blamed ukraine for planting the bomb. it is a claim which kyiv has vehemently denied. in recent weeks, ukrainian forces have made some gains on the battlefield, thanks to the aid of western weapons systems, striking strategic targets that military analysts say is having a big impact overall. but perhaps, as with the earliest days of the war, the most tragic story has been now the six months of suffering by the ukrainian people, thousands of innocent lives have been taken. that includes children. ukraine's chief prosecutor said last week that at least 361 children have been killed and more than 700 very injured since the war began. and at least two-thirds of all of ukraine's children have been displaced as a result of the war. that's according to unicef. our friend, dr. irwin redlener, has traveled to ukraine and

recently cofounded the ukraine children's action project. it's the new initiative to help support the children of ukraine. in a new piece, dr. redlener says ukraine's children are in trouble and they need our help now. "the russian ground invasion and incessant shelling have caused the largest forced migration of civilians in europe since the second world war. we must not forget about how much putin's brutal war of russian expansionism is harming ukraine's children and the very future of ukraine itself." joining us now, dr. irwin redlener, a professor of pediatrics, also the cofounder of the ukraine childrens action project. it's an initiative designed to provide urgent mental health and educational support to those displaced ukrainian children. also joining us, ukraine children actions project

advisory board member, michael keaton, also a two-time emmy nominee for "dope sick," which we'll ask you about in a moment, for which you have won and are nominated for even more awards. we're so happy to have you both. dr. redlener, let me start with you. i know this is not intelligence gleaned from apair but on the ground. tell me what's happening. >> i've been there a couple times, as you mentioned, nicole, and it's really heartbreaking. i've been doing this work my entire life with children facing adversity. i used to run a pediatric icu, but i've never experienced a hospital filled with children with double amptitions from explosions. we saw kids with head injuries, one child who saw her parents, both of them, murdered by russian ground troops in front of her eyes. i mean, her physical injuries will recover. when and if she recovers from the psychological trauma, i don't know. but the five million children who are moved to safety are moved to places of just kind of

transient refuge. i mean, they're in western ukraine where they don't live. they don't have family. they're in shelters or other facilities with other families. and many, many children in poland, of course, are refugees, and they've been welcomed with open arms by -- at least for the moment by the residents of warsaw. and you -- they need a lot. you know, the big relief agencies do a lot. thank goodness for them. the humanitarian assistance right away. but what karen redlener and i are worried about is the children not going to school. school starts in two weeks, and they have, for example, in western ukraine, where all the refugees have come from, the displaced ones, they're out of schoolbooks, and they're out of schoolbooks because ukraine had to divert its education budget to support the military, as people can understand. they need training for teachers to deal with traumatized children. this is where our kind of organization comes in, and we can fill in those gaps, which are so critically important to

the kids right now. >> i know you are doing, you know, the lord's work in making people remember this is still happening, and this is still dire, but if you look at sort of any trauma or you study world war ii and what happened to children there, they all did better staying close to their parents, and i know if you look at how many of the men and women are fighting on the front lines, i mean, what is the best case scenario for most of ukraine's children right now? >> well, i need to say that the best thing to happen right now, they need to stop the war. this is negotiated or defeating the russians, whatever it is, every single day that the war goes on is just worse for children. what they need right now is to get back to normalcy. this is treatment number one, really, for children who have been disrupted like this. you can be going to school. they need to be living in a safe home in a safe community where they can re-establish themselves until they go back home. some will not be going to

mariupol and places around odesa for a really long time, if ever. so, we have to be helping them get settled into a new normal. it's absolutely critical. but the other thing is they need psychologists who are trained to deal with traumatized children. they need ukrainian-speaking teachers. they need a host of things that will help them be normal children, so that they can become 18 and be happy and ready to go and really, ukraine's going to need them for the recovery of the country at some point. >> the rebuilding, yeah. >> there's a lot of needs, but they're very basic. anybody who has a family will understand. >> of course. >> normalcy and being with parents. that's it. >> michael, i tried to sort of garner some support in the music industry, and what i found is that everybody who heard what dr. redlener sees when he goes there wanted to help. i think people, one, there's a flurry of news, a lot of it bad, in this country, and two,

there's almost disbelief when you explain that six months and two days ago, ukraine was like, you know, they were in cafes, at work, post-covid nation back in the bars, back in the nightclubs, and then russia illegally and basically unannounced declared war on their country. people mostly want to help. has it been your experience that when you talk about the work you're supporting, that dr. redlener is doing, people still want to help? tell me how that conversation goes and what you find is sort of the depth of interest and generosity among americans. >> yeah. you know, i'm glad you said that, because, you know, what you really -- by and large, i want to believe that, and i have found it to be true, just like you did, that people really do want to help, and these days, you say, where do you start? you know, where do i start in what area? and so, yes, the answer to that

is, yes. i think people genuinely do care and want to help. and this is so large. and when you listen to irwin, the exponential damage is extraordinary. and it always seems to be -- it always seems to come down, the sufferers always seem to be poor people and children, inevitably, you know? so, i don't mean to -- first of all, you're part of this, nicole, so thanks. we appreciate your -- what you're doing, because you're on the board, and as a little bit of back story, i used to be on the jury a couple times for teresa hines's -- she had this thing called the heinz awards and that's where i first saw irwin, dr. redlener, and i was so knocked out by some of that -- some of the things that everyone did but what he did so i've been kind of a pal and and a supporter for i don't know how many years now, irwin, but a long time, and he's always focused on children.

you know? but this thing is huge. and when you think about that, you know, all these kids, i mean, i'll shut up here in a minute because i think irwin is more informative, but you know, when you think these kids leave and they won't see their mothers or fathers or mothers, who are also fighting, probably ever again. in some cases. and the generosity of the polish people is unbelievable. but you can't expect them to bear the full burden of this either. you know? so, look, we all do our little bits here and there, and i don't go public with a lot of stuff, but i think this is one that is worth going public a little bit. and, boy, we could talk about this for a long time, but anyway, thanks to you as well for talking about this and being on the board. >> well, you know, michael, then, how -- i try to say -- i read all the books that say, say no, keep your priorities -- you can't say no -- and he likes to be called irwin, so we call him

dr. redlener around here because he was our covid expert, but irwin is difficult to say no to. but to your point about how big it is, i mean, i think that what is a way in, perhaps, is that president zelenskyy understands exactly how impactful it is to have people like you and me involved in keeping this front of mind for people. and i wonder if you feel any sort of connection to him and to his -- i mean, he will stay up all night to deliver taped remarks to something that will reach a pocket of americans or europeans. i mean, he is running his country as best he can at war, but he is also spending just as much time and energy trying to keep the world's focus on what's happening to his country at the hands of what he views as terrorists, the russians. >> yes. well, look, it's an unprovoked -- it's an unprovoked mass migration of all these people, so to talk about him for a second, though, we could do a whole other -- many, many other segments on this guy. i've been saying this for a long time.

who knows, you know -- i've been saying this for a long time. i don't know where to start, there's so much to talk about, but if you -- i said this years ago. i said, if you want to follow the truth, if you want to kind of of get down to taking the cover off of things politically and socially, follow the funny people. follow the late night funny people, because the job is to, you know, comedy's based on irony, right? so it's based on the truth ultimately. so, you know, a sophisticated man walks down the street, he's got it all together and slips and falls, it's funny because that's not supposed to happen. so, the job of the funny people is to look and see the funny, and the funny is the truth. so i am not shocked at all when i listen to this guy speak that he has such a keen perspective on things. and i'm telling you, i saw

someone on the other day on, i think it was cnn, there was a round table. and a republican guy from north carolina said, don't pick a fight with any of the lite night comedians. you'll lose. >> yeah, i think that's right. >> and this guy's kind of extraordinary hem really had a keen view on things. and he's relentless because wouldn't you be? if it was my country, i would be relentless. so would you. it's just so overwhelming, you know? >> yeah, he's so incredible, and he does i think something that you were able to do and bring to life, he's channelling the pain of a nation. >> yeah, yeah. >> and i do want to switch gears and ask you about all the acclaim for something you brought to life, and for anyone who's dealing with loss to anyone to opioids or addiction. i know "dope sick" and if community around it and the

people have been a lifeline. i'm going to ask you to stick around. for more information about the ukraine children's action project. they're sticking around. when we come back, we'll have that conversation. don't go anywhere. ion. don't go anywhere. lily! welcome to our third bark-ery. oh, i can tell business is going through the “woof”. but seriously we need a reliable way to help keep everyone connected from wherever we go. well at at&t we'll help you find the right wireless plan for you. so, you can stay connected to all your drivers and stores on america's most reliable 5g network.

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emmys, "dope sick" nominated for 14. i watched it. what is the reception of "dope sick" mean to you? i know every time you're asked about it you talk about the people who come up to you and the lives that are reflected. >> it's kind of amazing how often it happens. and the response has been great. and it's so immediate, so heartfelt what they want to say. you know, some projects, some will come up and compliment you about something, but this goes deep with people. and you know, the thing i keep talking about i'm most proud of maybe among all the things associated with "dope sick", is it never made these people suffering from addiction look less. we really did a good job, i think, of knowing respect to not just that region, you know, of the united states, but to anyone

who suffers from addiction. because it's -- they used to say this about cancer, you know, ultimately it will somehow affect everybody. now we're saying that about this and fentanyl and everything and the situation. so i'm real proud of it. >> it's really powerful. it's really important. >> yeah. >> the nominations are much deserved. >> it is. these are serious things we have been talk about. can i lighten it up for a minute? do you mind? >> please. >> okay. what do you think of this? >> oh, many i god, is that your baby? who's that? >> look at that. >> this is the best thing i've seen on tv in a very, very long time. that is some serious pupally cuteness. >> all right. i go for the cheap sympathy vote every time. i'm not above it. >> that's priceless. michael keaton, dr. er wynn,

thank you so much and to the pup who stole the show. thank you so much. quick break for us. we'll be right back. quick break for us we'll be right back. were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone. millions have made the switch from the big three so it was a happy ending... to xfinity mobile. that means millions are saving hundreds a year on their wireless bill. and all of those millions are on the nation's most reliable 5g network and most recommended wireless carrier. that's a whole lot of happy campers out there. and it's never too late to join them. get $450 off any new purchase of an eligible samsung device with xfinity mobile. or add a line to your plan today at xfinitymobile.com

as you may be able to tell, i'm so happy to be back. anchoring these two hours is a great joy in my life. the people who get this show on the air every day, my team, they are the unsung hero of my broadcast. i want to take a minute today to thank them for the brilliant work over the last three weeks when my work family took a backseat to my family family. i also want to take a second and thank the man who sat in this chair the last two weeks who joyfully, with good humor, attention to detail, steered the broadcast through an extraordinary and historic news

cycle. john hallman will never let you see him sweat, but he works harder and bring his massive talent and rolodex and journalistic chops to these two hours. for that, i love and appreciate him so much. thank you for letting me back be your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, friend. >> hi, nicole, welcome. i have one thing the say, shout-out to your team. love that. but as you know, august is always a slow news month. >> it's never a slow news month. i learned my lesson. next year's vacations will be in march. >> somehow got to impick the right month. welcome back. >> thank you, my friend. >> absolutely. our thanks to nicole, and i want to welcome you to "the beat" tonight. i am ari melber. i want to tell you off the top, with of a special show tonight, including a special report for you, brand new, on how trump lawyers keep getting in tr