hey, everybody, good afternoon, i'm yasmin in for chris jansing here in new york. as we're coming on the air, we're following some major developments in two different cases of special interest to the former president. in atlanta, a fulton county judge just finished hearing arguments on whether brian kemp should be forced to testify before a grand jury investigating allegations of

criminal interference by the former president and his allies in the 2020 election. and then over to west palm beach, florida, the doj met the noon deadline just an hour ago to submit proposed redaction to the mar-a-lago affidavit. bruce reinhart will now begin considering the justice department suggested redactions of that affidavit. which basically lays out the government's-r reason for requesting the search in the first place. experts saying it is likely containing evidence of possible crimes that they expected to find on the property. today the former president once again said he, quote, did nothing wrong. the government vehemently opposed to the affidavit even being made public arguing that the release could, quote, cause significant and irreparable damage to an ongoing criminal investigation that is still in the early stages. the judge's deliberations are taking price in private and how

much if any of the affidavit we will see is still unclear. the judge said earlier on this week that he might, he might ultimately conclude that it would be best not to release any of it because redactions would make it meaningless. we'll have much more on that georgia investigation i talked about earlier into election interference. but first, we want to dig into the mar-a-lago search warrant with ken dilanian and ryan riley and glenn kirshner and a msnbc legal analyst and javit ali, ken, let me start with you on the the nuts and bolts. the major question is now think thing has been met. the judge now considering the redactions. what are we expecting was actually redacted and in this warrant, a., and how much do you think the judge will be accepting of it? >> so that is the big question,

yasmin. we could see that a lot was redacted because both the justice department and the judge agreed that there were many, many senseive things in this affidavit that could not be exposed, the names of witnesses and the identities of fbi agents investigative techniques and as they put it, a road map to the investigation. all of that is extremely senseive and will not be exposed. but we could imagine that there are other things that possibly that have already been reported that they could be unredacted and might shed some light on stuff. the back and forth between the trump side and the archives and the justice department over getting the documents back and the extent to which the justice department felt misled about the existence of classified documents at mar-a-lago. right now we have to wait. the justice department has submitted a redaction. we see a sealed entry that the doinl has confirmed is theirs and now we expect to wait. >> how long do you think it will take to get a decision this this

judge? how long do you think it will take? >> it looks like the judge and the courts more generally are really rising to the moment. they seem to appreciate the urgency of moving through the legal issues quickly. so i have a feeling given the expedited schedule this has been on, we could see something within a matter of days. it could be as early as this afternoon or tomorrow. bup i don't think we're going to see much. agree with ken that there will likely be so many redactions it will leave us all frustrated but agree there are sp things that are publicly known that it seems like the department of justice could disclose without compromising the ongoing investigation. >> so here is an interesting development that we're just getting in from our own tom winter, a news organizations have now filed a motion, i'm reading this from my email, that is why i'm looking down, to unseal some or all of the justice department filing addressing their proposed redactions to the mar-a-lago search warrant affidavit. so we'll wait and see how that develops, glenn. but i want to follow up on the

position that the attorney general is in. how do you strike this balance in proving the validity of this search and yet maintaining the integrity of anongoing investigation with these redactions in mind? >> the reality is, you don't have to prove the validity of the search to anybody except the judge who issued the search warrant in the first place. that is the person who made the decision that based on the sworn affidavit that was presented to him, there was probable cause to believe there was evidence of crime on the property at mar-a-lago. beyond that, we don't draft these affidavits in investigations with a view toward it ever being disclosed to the public unless and until our investigation is complete, somebody has been indicted and we're now in the run-up to trial. so it is really not doj's job now to prove the legitimacy search to the public's

satisfaction. >> talk about this highly classified information we now know was in the hands of the former president, right, at mar-a-lago. and the national security concerns this judge has in deciding whether or not to release this affidavit. >> yasmin, thank you for having me on the panel. this is another one of the really interesting questions. it seems like from the search and the warrant, there is a large pool of classified document in president trump's possession after he left office and it seems within that pool there is a smaller batch, would you have to assume, of the most sensitive classified information, top secret, sci information and a special access program information or intelligence within that smaller batch. so these are really sensitive documents that only need to

be -- or only should have been kept or stored or viewed in what is known as a scif. and i lived in that world. my whole government career. so the fact that these were in the possession of former president trump in a unsecured lotion, even if they were in a safe, they weren't in an accredited scif, and the potential compromise release of that information or viewing of that information where people did not have a need to know or didn't have security clearances, these are serious, serious national security issues that have to be examined. >> how does the fbi, how do they prepare for a possible release of some of this information? >> i don't think that any of that will be disclosed. and even in a redacted information, because again you can't compromise sources, methods, classified information. so at best there might just be a suggestion of the type of material or like a general theme or topic. but they can't get into the actual sort of information

itself or the more particular details around it. because that in and of itself is a security violation, too. unless it is declassified. >> glenn, just to kind of wrap up this conversation, where are you predicting the judge is going to land on this thing. > i think the judge will decide to disclose almost nothing. i wouldn't be surprised if he said, listen, everything in here is too sensitive. if i just piecemeal out a word here and a line here it would be meaningless and more frustrating than it would be enlightening. so i don't think we'll see much of anything. though i doo predict we'll see an appeal of the judge's decisions. >> so i want to talk about a related matter and we'll pick up on wru left off and that is with the former president, judge eileen cannon ordering the president to file a supplement to his request for this special master by tomorrow, including by the way, asking it is her court

is even overseeing this. what are you expecting this. >> it is embarrassing when the judge issued that minute order which is an informal order dropped on the public doct for all to see saying, listen, why don't you take this one back and submit a competent legal pleading answering the following questions and then she posed five questions. but not to mix stories here, but even though we might not get anything from the affidavit being unsealed, what we may get is a response filed by the department of justice to this motion for judicial oversight, appointment of a special master. we know doj typically said they only speak in their court filings and indictments and motions. we may get to see some speaking about the department of justice in responding to this kind of nonsensical request by the trump team. >> ryan riley, thank you for being patient throughout this conversation. because there are so many

different tentacles to what we're talking about today. and of course when we talk about these affidavits, now we're also talking about this unredacted affidavit, right, that is now been released with regards to former attorney general bill barr from the 2019 memo, essentially saying that the former president will, in fact, not be charged with obstruction of justice. what are we learning about this? >> you know, it reads in many ways like a defensive memo. the big headline was this decision had already been made. bill barr already decided he was not going to be prosecuting president trump, the person who put him in office. that is what this memo was written for. to justify that predetermined decision. but if you read into the details of it, you could sort of realize that is a reason why they didn't want this come out sooner because some of the arguments aren't extremely strong. it seems to be making essentially an argument for the best possible way to interpret a lot of donald trump's moves rather than interpreting them in

a way that were interfering in an ongoing investigation. charges that could have been brought for interfering in the on going mueller investigation and what they chalked that all up to was donald trump was doing all of this because it was interfering with his political abilities and his abilities to get done what he wanted to get done through congress. so they basically sort of whitewashing away a lot of those decision-making processes that he was interfering with, an ongoing investigation that for anyone else would have been certainly something that they would have looked for to charge someone with obstruction of justice but he got a clean slate from two individuals in the trump justice department who decided to make their case to former attorney general barr. >> glenn, what did you make of this unredacted memo? what stood out to you? >> you know, this reads like a public relations piece for

donald trump rather than a legitimate legal analysis. one line which i think highlights that, yasmin, is they actually say that when donald trump was urging flynn, manafort and stone and cohen not to flip, that wasn't obstruction of justice, that was donald trump believing that if they cooperated, the prosecutors would make them lie about donald trump. this memo reads throughout like the author is saying, look, donald trump has the best intentions in everything he said and did and i'll tell you, it makes experienced prosecutors heads hurt when they read that kind of so-called legal analysis any new insight, glenn, into former bill barr? >> a little bit. and would you say because this memo was published on the very day bill barr stepped to the camera and, i'm going to use the words of judge reggie walton, when he ruled that bill barr

mischaracterized the mueller report, and spun the mueller report and, quote, bill barr lacks candor. the fact that they issued this memo as cover for him to do precisely what he did on the same day he did it, sort of tells you the whole thing feels like more public relation an less legal analysis. >> we're going to be watching for developments on all of these fronts as we covered a lot in these first 13 minutes of the show. thank you guys for now. of course, tap me on the virtual shoulder if anything develops in the time between now and the end of show. ken, and javits and glenn and ryan stick around for our next segment. and the other investigation involving the former president trump, this time in atlanta. plus student loan debt forgiveness, who qualifies and what groups are most effective and what borrowers are saying. you're watching msnbc. we'll be right back.

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welcome back. a judge in fulton count, georgia, now weighing brian kemps request to quash a subpoena asking him to testify before a special grand jury after arguments from his lawyers concluded in a public hearing in the last hour. that special grand jury, investigating whether the former president and his allies broke any laws in their attempts to influence the 2020 election. and nbc's blayne alexander is outside of the courthouse in atlanta. also want to bring back federal prosecutor glenn kirshner. let me start with you. given the nuts and bolts given what took place inside of the come, where are we? >> sure. well that hearing lasted about two hours or so. the judge doesn't make a decision today but it came down to this. the attorneys for brian kemp laid forth three separate arguments, sovereign immunity and executive privilege and third the thing they focused on the most and the thing that the judge doesn't want to hear about

per se were political implications. what the attorneys are calling political implications of his testimony. essentially they're arguing that because we are on what they call the eve of one of the most closely watched gubernatorial races in the country right here in georgia, that there is no way that the testimony or just any sort of news around this could not seep into the election itself. it would not seep into this gubernatorial race. they said that it is not proper for a politics and legal proceedings to intersect this way when we're two and a half months away from the election. now the d.a. said they are doing anything they can to avoid any political meddling or the appearance of thereof. they say that the governor's testimony is so important that they can't push this, they didn't delay this any further and it is important that grand jury hear from him. now to all of that point, while all of this is going on, what is interesting as this race has been progressing, stacey abrams, the democrat nominee, has seized

upon this rather contentious back and forth that we've seen between the d.a. and the governor's office and essentially is kind of using this to paint some sort of a closer allegiance between governor kemp and former president trump. even kind of tweeting out a sort of campaign style ad to that effect. essentially saying that what we're seeing this back and forth shows in her words that governor kemp does not want to, quote, testify against former president trump. >> let's tick through some of the points that blayne just made and the overarching question, will the judge be able to quash the subpoena or push it down the road until after his election, right. first and foremost, blaine talked about sovereign immunity. what do you make of that case that he's trying to make? >> you know, there is a tell here, yasmin. when you have to offer so many different potential privileges in essence throw a whole bunch of stuff against the wall and see which sticks, typically none of it sticks.

because your playing against yourself, right. when you offer these alternative theories. i don't believe the judge will buy that he has sovereign immunity because he's not being sued, that means somebody is trying to sue a government official for performing some duty that is within the scope of their official duty. so that dog likely wouldn't hunt. and i don't think the executive privilege claim will fair much better. there was also some reporting that he was going to argue attorney/client privilege. i don't know if he made that argument in the courtroom. but the other tell here, yasmin, is that at the end of it all, he said, well, at a minimum, maybe you could just delay it until after the election, that is almost a concession that, look, judge, i know these aren't all that persuasive, but you could at leach push it until after the elections. i have a feeling, he's probably going to lose on all fronts.

this is not viewed as the -- by the judge through a political lens and the judge's likely going to order governor kemp to testify. >> why do you suspect it is critical for the governor to testify now, glenn? >> well, i think, you know, d.a. fannie willis has made it clear she's going to investigate this case without fear, without favor, and she sure seems to be doing that, casting a wide net with respect to anybody who has any information about not only the election, the suspected election fraud, the potential solicitation of election crimes, but also with respect to the way georgia elections are run. that is something that governor kemp has a lot of information on and i think he would be a valuable source of information for the grand jury that is investigating all of these potential election crimes in georgia. >> hey, blayne, you brought it

up, that they're capitalizing on this situation, this back and forth from the current governor. how are folks there reacting to what is happening? >> reporter: you know, it is was interesting, yasmin and i do want to point out this before i get into that, kemp's office did tell us in a statement, look, he's willing to testify. he's willing to cooperate and been willing all along. they're just asking that this happen after the election. so i do think that is an important point to make. as for what voters are making of this. we spent time talking to voters and this is not come up as for being a driving force or something that they think about when they make their decision on who they're supporting. really, among voters and people this hasn't necessarily been at the forefront of folks' minds. they talk about the economy and abortion and any number of things, georgia being among the first state to reopen during the covid pandemic. this is not something that i've heard from voters that they're watching very closely. at least when it comes to being aor in their decision this

november. >> blayne, thank you, glenn, thank you as well. starting next week, everybody, teachers in ohio's largest school district expected to head back to class after striking when the school year started. the union reached a preliminary agreement with the school board this morning. the details of that agreement have not yet been released. students expecting to continue online learning until monday, the strike is ending after three days of teachers protesting foreair conditions in classrooms, smaller class sizes and better resources as well. today numerous restrictive abortion laws going into effect in a handful of states. one could mean a life sentence for the abortion provider. ant the changes that start today and how they could effect millions of american women. you're watching msnbc. msnbc. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin... that's a trail i want to take. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk better than warfarin. and has less major bleeding than warfarin.

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first-degree penalty and the penalty of up to life in prison and a penalty of $100,000. but in idaho, a little win for the federal government, a judge blocking part of the strict eborgs ban expected to take effect today a narrow courtroom win in the first lawsuit to protect reproductive rights after the fall of roe. i want to bring in rachel rubin and ali vitali. rachel, let me start with you on this one. i want you to talk us through the trigger laws that are now coming into effect today and in addition as we look ahead to tomorrow as well. you're looking at north dakota, also they're almost complete ban going into effect as well. where are we with these, how are they going to effect the women in these areas? >> hi, thank you so much for having me. first off, and so you mentioned idaho, that is one of the state's where a trigger law is now in effect. and as you mentioned, there was a narrow legal victory for the

biden administration. the first legal victory since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. but the crux of the trigger law there is that it has a near total ban on abortion. what the federal judge ruled yesterday was that providers, doctors can't be penalized in the case of a medical emergency. tennessee will have a near complete ban on abortion as well as penalties for providers in texas. >> what does this kind of narrow win, rachel, in the state of idaho, what does it mean for the bigger picture and the strategy, the federal government, the department of justice could take in maintaining reproductive rights for women across the country right now. >> that is a great question. so we saw the administration last month put out guidance for doctors in emergency medical

situations. and in general, we've seen the administration look to what they can do kind of within the scope, now this relies on an existing law, so in the scope of some existing regulations and laws. >> talk to me about the last two months. i know you've been monitoring how states and women have been adjusting to this new normal of what is happening. you have the scattered laws across this country and people not necessarily knowing what is legal, where it is legal, when it is legal, these trigger laws coming into effect. women in those states not necessarily knowing the trigger laws are now in effect. how are health care providers dealing with this change specifically? >> yeah, so i think starting with the big picture, right now roughly 20.9 million women have lost access to elective abortions in their home state. and so looking broadly, that is

roughly 14 states where abortions are banned. and we've seen, you know, with the legal landscape here, there have been providers and groups that have sued over these restrictions. and so what you're seeing is sometimes the laws change, can change very quickly where one day abortion might be legal in a state and in another day it might not be legal. so the landscape is evolving and shifting very quickly and that is something that providers, you know, on the ground are making sure to watch and be cognizant of. >> ali vitali, let's get into this a little bit. because your book out, electable, much of which is about getting women into higher office, why is it that women haven't necessarily made it to be president of the united states as of yet. it is incredible, if you haven't had the opportunity to sit down and read it, you should.

congratulations. >> thank you. >> but with all of that being said, you see what took place in upstate new york, this idea of abortion rights. it was a rally cry for voters in this swing district. it was huge for pat ryan to take that win home. i'm wondering now as we think about abortion rights in this country, seeing the trigger laws take effect, if this will be something that will help more women get elected? >> how could it not be. and at least how could it not galvanize more women into public office. and i think this is not just something that is impactful for women, it is something that is clearly galvanizing both men and women, voters across the country. you watch the way it is playing out in polls in terms of the generic ballot, closing then enthusiasm gap for democrats, all of that is critically important. and through the lense of the book, we're here now 30 years since the first year of the women, in 1992, because you saw

more women run after the anita hill hearings and after 2016 and the loss of hillary clinton to donald trump in the presidential election. these are pivot points. and critical inflection points for women and women candidates and not just candidates but voters as well. things that might take people off of the political sidelines and put them central into the system and so certainly in the same way that we look back at the me-to movement over the last few years, this is a moment where gender is front and center because millions of women across the country now are grappling with the loss of one health care decision because of this supreme court decision. clearly this is having big ripple effects for november. >> there is the idea, ali, to decide to run, to put your hat in the race for more women to do that, the more women that do it, the women will get elected because that is how math works. but then there is the discussion surrounding women in leadership, how they are talking about. and that discussion is very much gendered, no matter where we are in the country. you look at highest office in the land, the vice president of the united states is now a woman, yeah for the united

states but even that being said you think about the way in which we talk about her political future and often times that conversation is not unlike the conversation surrounding hillary clinton. >> yeah. and yasmin, there are so many things baked into this. i talk about in the book is the idea that kamala harris is elevated but not elected in her own right. she ran and was one of the options in the most female field in 2020 but in the end her ambitions fell short. but she was elevated to the ticket with joe biden was a sign of progress in and of itself, because as i talk about in the book, when you have sarah palin and geraldine ferrero, they were tut there as a throw spaghetti at the wall and see something that could energize the electorate but kamala harris, this is joe biden and his team recognizing the fact that having a women on the ticket was an

asset, it was a power play and something that they politically had to do was because it was advantageous to them and after 2020 they needed a ticket that was reflective of the democratic coalition and the coalition they're hoping to build nationally so what that means going forward both in this very female moment but also charting the path ahead, past 2022 into 2024 and well past that too, i hope, is i do think that gone are the days when we'll see primary fields of only men. >> yeah. >> enough women now are in the pipeline from both parties with enough experience to run viable presidential campaigns themselves whether that is liz cheney, challenging trump in 2024, that is something that she's actively toying with right now. but think we'll never see a primary again where women are not at least actively considered and part of the conversation in the primary and then ultimately when you get to a general election. i think gone are the days of only white men on the ticket. and i think that is a very good thing for a country where reflective governance means better governing for every

american. >> you think about the two biggest issues, the democratic party is fighting right now. and there are women at the forefront of them. it is women's right and fighting for democracy and the maintenance of democracy in this country. >> rachel, thank you. and ali, thank you. and check out the new book "electable" it is out available there stores now. new york's highest court has granted harry weinstein an appeal after two years of being convicted on rape and charges. the appeal will challenge his 2020 conviction and has cleared the way for oral arguments to begin as soon as next year. weinstein was sentenced to 23 years in a new york state prison. he is now back in los angeles awaiting a separate trial on similar charges coming up in october. and a key decision in uvalde, what the sit school board has decided, what to do with the police chief there over the botched highly criticized response to the mass shooting at

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♪ ♪ moments ago, ukraine president zelenskyy said he spoke to president biden, that news coming in the wake of russian president vladimir putin ordering a significant increase in armed forces in ukraine. putin upping troops by 137,000. that is about a 10% jump in russia's combat personnel. the move coming as the war in ukraine passes its six month mark. and a day after putin's defense chief admitted russia's military efforts in ukraine have stalled. also three months after the tragic school shooting in uvalde, leaving 19 children and two teachers dead, in a heating meeting held last night, the school board voted unanimously to fire chief pete arredondo. he did not attend the meeting but send a 17-page statement calling his treatment a

unconstitutional public lynching. nbc correspondent gabe gutierrez is joining me now with more. it is taken three months for this decision to happen after two delays by arredondo's own attorneys. here we are though and this community is still reeling of course understandably so from this unspeakable tragedy. how are they reacting. >> this has been a long time coming, yasmin. and as you said, the community has been to several of the meetings, has been calling for his ouster for quite sometime. and it happened yesterday. there was a 21 second moment of silence at the beginning of the meeting for the victims here. but arredondo was unanimously fired. asa said, say 17-page statement from arredondo. and these are his lengthiest public comments even in written form that we've seen from him so far. a public lynching he called it and his attorneys added that none of his decisions demonstrate a failure to meet the accepted standard of conduct for law enforcement officers in

similarly situated school districts in texas, basically saying, listen, he did what was required of him to do. he has said before that he did not believe he was the incident commander on the scene but law enforcement experts around the country have essentially said that that argument is ridiculous. many community members also feel the same way. we heard from several of those parents yesterday as well. take a listen. >> you don't care about these families. if it was one of your children, heads could be roll right now. but because it is not, you don't care. >> 21 lives lost. and mr. pete arredondo is asking for justice. we ask for justice for our grandkids, our kids. >> and there is no word on whether arredondo will appeal this decision. school starts there in just a few weeks.

>> unbelievable. all right. as always, good to see you. thank you my friend. high school students in oxford, mifrpg, returning since a deadly shooting last november. they lined up on campus with the clear backpacks to enter, after the tragedy that killed four students and injured seven others and the accused killer confirmed his placement at the county jail being charged as an adult and facing murder charges. it is what nearly everybody is talking about today around the nation. student loan forgiveness. who who qualifies, who benefits the most, and does it actually solve the real problem in this country's education system? we're going to try and get those questions answered coming up next. we'll be right back. l be right . like #6 the boss. pepperoni kicks it off with meatballs smothered in rich marinara. don't forget the fresh mozzarella. don't you forget who the real boss is around here.

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hi, i'm eileen. i live in vancouver, washington and i write mystery novels. dogs have been such an important part of my life. i have flinn and a new puppy. as i was writing, i found that i just wasn't as sharp and i new i needed to do something so i started taking prevagen. i realized that i was much more clear and i was remembering the details that i was supposed to. prevagen keeps my brain working right. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. welcome back. so millions of americans across the country woke up this morning with less debt after the president announced plans for student loan forgiveness nor low and middle income borrowers. for perspective, you have 75% of students with debt og less than $40,000 and more than half less than 20,thousand dollars.

younger people will who pay off their loans and black and latino american students. here to understand what is means is nbc's morgan radford. so i talked about -- good to see you. >> good to see how soon could they be seeing this debt relief? >> it's sort of tbd at this point, especially to see when they're going to see those checks sort of hit. what it means, how to apply. the site has almost crashed with just the volume of information people are looking for. when it comes to actually having that student loan debt cancelled, first borrowers will have to fill out a form with the education department to make sure they qualify based on there income. and they will be rolling out more information on where to find that information. that does not mean many

borrowers aren't feeling the impact right away. that's because the pause on payments was set to expire at the end of the month and now extended to the end. year. >> this is going to affect 43 million americans, everyone who has student loans and more than that, right? >> it will have a huge impact on black and latino borrowers especially. 90% of black student and 72 latinos compared to 66 of white students. if you fast forward forward, the black student owes more than 60,000, 28,000 for white graduates. a lot of these loan holders that we spoke to, they look like a young activist who said he had to drop out of school and get a

job after his mother had to self-deport during the trump administration. and there's a mother of two in her 40s who still to this day had a loan balance hanging over her head, even though she had to stop going to school to get a job. take a listen. >> i'm 46 years old and still have this over my head. so this announcement definitely gives a little hope for starters, some type of relief for us. >> i voted for the president specifically for this issue. $20,000 for pell recipients would be a major victory. and i would -- i voted for the president for those reasons and i would feel like the president is delivering to an extent, even if it's not everything that we advocated for. >> and what's interesting, you talked about those 43 million student loan borrowers. 39% of them, which is something we don't often talk about, actually didn't get a degree in the six years since the first day they enrolled. so that's a lot of people, right? a lot of people who have loans

who didn't actually get the value of that degree. >> but they're still carrying the debt. >> exactly. when we talk to these different students who were loan borrowers, they were all happy to see this happen, but they all said that they hoped this is just the first step in many. >> it's part of the bigger problem had it comes to the education system. morgan radford, as always, great to see you, my friend. by the way, first time on camera with you, seeing and hearing about your pregnancy. >> thank you, thank you. life comes as you fast. adulting real hard over here. >> you can still be a kid when you have kids. >> i want to bring in atlanta's adam harris, he's out with the headlines "biden's clangs of billions in debt won't solve the

problem." i'm so glad to have you, what it's going to mean for the bigger picture and the bigger problem when it comes to the education system in this country and access to education. talk to us a little bit about that, how this might just be the first step but what more needs to happen. >> yeah, when you think about the sort of higher education, there are a couple of issues that we had -- that we have had for the last several decades. one of them is the sort of student loan debt crisis. what do you do with the people who have already taken on student loan debt. but the second part of it is how do you ensure that americans don't end up in the same situation again, right? i think that the biden administration, one of the things that they did in this most recent announcement, the headlines were all about the debt cancellation but they also helped reform the income-driven repayment programs to 5% of your discretionary income over a shorter period of time. the last piece of that was always how do we improve the

affordability of school. >> do you think that this decision will impact that answer, to the question you just posed, how colleges and universities have access? we are in an interesting time when you do have college promise programs, with which you can be tuition-free college, debt-free college but you've also seen it at a national level. that started as an idea during campaigns, something that grew as the student loan portfolio grew. it started as an idea. now that we've seen one of these things through to fruition, even

if it wasn't the 50,000 some wanted or the full elimination others might have wanted, it is a stepping stone to sort of more fully address affordability in college. >> as i mentioned yesterday, it's more important to mention again, it's something i hear over and over again from young people when i'm reporting on the streets, whether it be about scotus and they talk about the promise of the biden administration forgiving college debts. seems as though this could be a win for the biden administration amidst all of it. adam harris, thank you for this conversation. appreciate it. that does it for me, everybody. i'm going to be back in the chair for chris tomorrow. you can catch me on weekends saturdays and sundays 2 to 4 p.m. eastern. also on msnbc. katy tur is picking things up after a very quick break.

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good to be with you. i'm katy tur. judge reinhart has the justice department's redactions. it filed its report, here it is all one line of it "docket entry 88 restricted without seal until further notice. and the united states has filed a submission under seal for the court order of august 22nd. the justice department respectfully