all of this with each other, with all of you, our viewers. this incredible 38 pages that has now been released by the court, order of the court, because of the justice department application, the justification for that all laid out in this affidavit. despite the redactions, we now know as joyce pointed out, finally, the importance of the secrecy here. stay with msnbc throughout the day, digging down into the significance of this. follow us online, on facebook, and on twitter at mitchell reports. yasmin vossoughian now. >> hey, good afternoon. we got a lot going on this afternoon. we have it. i'm yasmin vossoughian here in for chris jansing in msnbc headquarters in new york. coming on the air with breaking news. we have the affidavit the doj used to request a searching of

the former president's compound. we're reading through it in real time. almost half of the 38 pages is, in fact, redacted, but also having some major new information, including information about what the fbi found in an initial search of those 15 boxes of dominates former president trump's team turned over to the national archives. in those boxes they found 184 unique documents bearing classification markings, including 67 documents marked as confidential, 92 as secret, 25 as top secret. also going into detail about the specific areas of mar-a-lago that are not authorized locations for the storage of classified information, mentioning three areas called former president trump's residential suite in an area called pine hill n an area called the 45 office. we also have the document written by the justice

department to justify those redactions, also a lot of information in there mentioning threats of violence made towards fbi agents and more. we have a team going through all of it as we speak. we're trying to disseminate it and will bring it to you. that team is joining me. i want to bring in ken dilanian, shaq brewster all with nbc. frank figliuzzi, former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi and msnbc national security analyst, charles coleman, a former prosecutor and income taxes legal analyst as well. welcome to you all. we've been spending the last 30 minutes sifting through all of these documents trying to disseminate the justification for this search warrant. and the communication that was had between national archive, the department of justice along with the trump team and there's a heck of a lot of interesting stuff and mind-blowing stuff in ought to have. ryan, let me start with you on

this and ask you what stands out to you so far in this affidavit. >> there's a lot notable about this. one thing i wanted to highlight because i think it's remarkable considering the source. donald trump's lawyer in may wrote this letter to the justice department, essentially accusing them of getting politics involved in this investigation. you know, i would remind you of the fact that this stays secret. doj didn't speak about this for months even though there's this ongoing dialogue and, you know, the president -- the former president stored these documents in mar-a-lago that he wasn't supposed to have. this quote is from evan corcoran saying we request that doj adhere to long-standing policies and procedures regarding pending investigative matters which are designed to prevent political interference in doj decision-making. just so highlight that, that's donald trump's lawyer saying that there should be a wall between the justice department

and the white house. you know, he had some issues with that during his own administration. it's remarkable that he would make that point explicitly and say, oh, make sure there's no interference between -- with the doj decision-making process by the white house. of course we haven't seen any indications of that coming from the biden administration, which has been very hands off this investigation. >> somewhat ironic to say the least. ken dilanian, let's talk the contents of some of this affidavit, which i find fascinating. the classification of some of the documents that were contained -- being stored at mar-a-lago. the high classification of them, really, and who they could feasibly compromise. >> yeah, yasmin. that's what really jumped out to me as somebody who covered the intelligence community for a lot of years. these kinds of markings are not seen on documents that are found outside of special facilities designed to house classified documents, period, end of story.

i mean, human control system was one of the markings they found on documents. that is a cia field report a report by a ceo officer, perhaps maybe a defense intelligence agency officer. but normally cia about his or her briefing of a confidential source overseas, a spy. normally those reports don't leave the cia, but in some cases, i'm told, when senior intelligence officials are briefing the president on a significant intelligence development, they may want to show the president exactly where it came from and the direct source. this is raw intelligence. this is not finished intelligence written by analysts. this is right from the collector. and so if that's what happened here and he took it home with him and it ended up at mar-a-lago, that is just absolutely stunning. >> ken, let me step in for one moment. i do want folks to understand what you're talking about, this human control system or hcs as it's classified. it's designed to protect

intelligence information derived from clandestine human sources. i'm ready from the affidavit -- the hcs control system protects human intelligence-derived information, capabilities, techniques, processes, and procedures. i mean, you don't have to watch "homeland" to know how incredibly important this is and how important it is to protect these sources overseas, their safety especially, considering the position they're putting themselves in. >> in english, it means it's a report from a cia officer about his or her conversations and debriefings of a spy. super sensitive stuff. it may not have the name of the source, but it may have identifying information, not stuff that gets outside a vault essentially. and the other alarming designation is si for signals intelligence. the national security agency intercepts a foreign leader's communications, phone calls, the

nsa is vacuuming up stuff all over the world. it's super highly classified. it makes up in many cases three-quarters of the president's daily intelligence brief because they're getting a lot of really good stuff, but that is very, very secret stuff. the idea that documents with those markings were at mar-a-lago, just alarming. you know, other markings means intelligence it can't be shared with any foreign nationals, including our allies, the brits or australians, or originator control. just another evidence of how highly classified these documents are. and the last thing i want to say, yasmin, is in the memory ran there are a significant number of civilian witnesses whose identities they need to protect. so the idea that there was one informant, one confidential human source that gave them the

road map is belied by this zhang that's not the last thing you're going to say. you're sticking around as you're sifting through these documents because we have a lot to get through with that. but shaq, i want to come to you down at mar-a-lago because i know the former president now is responding to the release of this now-redacted copy of this affidavit. >> that's exactly right. we've seen three individual polls from the former president, two of them were audio posts, one an actual statement from the former president. it's mirroring what we heard from him before. in direct response to the affidavit, he's saying that it's heavily redacted. that's the first comment that he made. he said nothing mentioned on nuclear. we know that some of the early reports after the initial august 8th search said that some of the documents received were connected to nuclear weapons. he's saying there that nothing in the affidavit is mentioned on nuclear. and then he went on to attack the judge in this case, the judge that was presented with

this affidavit decided there was probable cause, enough probable cause to have that search at the fbi facility -- excuse me -- at mar-a-lago based on the fbi affidavit there. but, you know, in the audio feed, in the auto recording that the former president posted, one thing that he also said -- i'm looking at my notes here. he said they could have talked to us and taken anything that he needed. one thing that we learned from the affidavit is that there were -- >> they did. >> -- exchanges between the fbi and members of the doj and the former president's team there. so some things that the president's saying in these comments, in these audio comments are already disputed by what he's actually attacking right now. >> let me read for you one letter from doj counsel to the former president's counsel in talking to him about these records that were stored at mar-a-lago. as i previously indicated to you, this is page 22 of this affidavit, paragraph 61. as i previously indicated to

you, mar-a-lago doesn't include a secure location authorized for the storage of classified information. it appeared that since the time classified documents and this area is redacted -- were removed from the facility, the white house move to mar-a-lago on or around january 20th, 2021, they have not been handled in an appropriate manner or stored in an appropriate location. accordingly, we ask that the room at mar-a-lago where the documents had been stored be secured and that all the obligations that were moved from the white house to mar-a-lago along with any other items in that room be preserved in that room in their current condition until further notice. by the way, that is not the only documentation of the correspondence they had with the trump team throughout this affidavit. frank figliuzzi, let me go to you on this one. also standing out to me, of course, is this letter attached that we have right here to this affidavit written by trump's attorneys to the department of justice. >> yeah.

look, there's -- i want to piggyback on something ken referenced. there are witnesses in this case, clearly. when we see in this released document that there is probable cause to believe that evidence of obstruction is in mar-a-lago and they'll find evidence of obstruction if they're permitted to search mar-a-lago, somehow they believe that something's been altered, destroyed, and they need to get in there and find that evidence. and then, secondly, probable cause to believe that national defense information is still at mar-a-lago is what they're telling the judge to justify their search. again, there's likely people saying, yeah, not only is there still classified, but there's ndi here, so people understand, national defense information is a subset of classified information. it doesn't apply to all classified information. look, as someone who spent 25 years at the fbi, eventually heading counterintelligence,

holding the various compartmented clearance that are referenced in this affidavit, i can tell you the hair on the back of my neck stood up and i saw those classification markings referenced here. the hcs clearance, that's something that's not automatic. i had to actually be approved for an h clearance, as we referred to it. it is human spies, and it could be very singular in nature. you know, you look at a document, you read it, and you hear a conversation recounted. there's only one other person in that room. that would mean that person is working for the u.s. government. people die because of that decision to work for the u.s. government. the same goes for a microphone placed in someone's office, could be gone forever. my question is whether the fbi upon seeing some of this material shared it immediately with nsa or cia and said perhaps

the cia you need to think about ex-filltrating this human source before he gets killed. >> because you think about, frank, that compound -- i want to get into that letter i mentioned. but if you think about the compound, let's bring up the images of mar-a-lago that we were just showing, guys, as i talk to frank here. it's not a secure location. i mean, it's stated in this affidavit, right? and when you have human intelligence sources that are so incredibly vulnerable -- and also, by the way, helpful to the advancement of the interest and motivations of the united states not under lock and key in an unsecure location, what does that say, by the way, to the trust the united states has overseas in recruiting others to work for them? >> you know, we've had similar discussions over the years about the erosion of trust and

credibility amongst our allies, and the harm done for the ability to recruit someone and say come work for team america, right? sit across the desk, ask someone to betray their country for you, maybe even leave their family to work for america. and they look at you and say, wait a minute, this guy, this president, now former president, is storing our documents. how can i trust what you're going to do with the information i provide you? it hurts. it hurts our ability and the mission. >> talk to me about this letter, frank. i know you have some interest in it. it's fascinating to read through, of course, the thinking of the trump team and how they address the department of justice in considering possible investigation with these documents being stored at mar-a-lago. >> well, first, there's a general tenor throughout this that says, look, we think this is politically motivated, we're willing to give you what you

want. and then it's disingenuous, yasmin, it's buying time. we need more time. we think you're being controlled by the white house. and really there's a disingenuous nature to the whole letter, to the fact that -- i see a buying of time here. the motions they filed in general saying, yeah, we need to string this out. can we have more time? and then i see an overdeference -- i have to be honest with you. people on the far right are criticizing the government for, quote, unquote, moving too fast to a search warrant. i'm criticizing the government for not moving fast enough when we see the chronology of events here. there was too much deference paid to the trump team and trump himself. >> determination i want to go back to you on this because i know you're getting new information about nuclear threats, i believe. talk to me. >> i just wanted to make the

point, yasmin, the president is raising questions about a report that they were looking for nuclear information and we don't see evidence of that in this document. they would never put something like that so highly top secret in a document like this. in fact, the evidence we have for the fact that they withheld certain things is that in the letter that the national archives posted on its website a few days ago, there was reference in those 15 boxes markings including s.a.p., special action program that only a small number of people in the government are read into. there's no reference to that in here either, and there's a reason for that because that's too sensitive to put in a document like this. there's a lot about these documents that is not in here, including no description of the nature of why they're classified. just the markings. because the fbi needs to describe the markings to explain to the judge how serious they are, but nothing about the contents, yasmin. >> charles, let's bring you into the conversation because much of the balance the attorney general

needed to strike in issuing these redactions was justifying the search warrant, a, right, but maintaining the integrity of this early and ongoing investigation. >> right. i think it's important to put into context we're seeing. in this case, you're seeing the affidavit take place or the affidavit be unsealed essentially during the course of an investigation. and so while there have been a lot of calls from the public and from media and from, you know, different sides around getting this information out, understand it's interesting, it's salacious, and people want to see what the details are. there are literally no winners from either side. if you're someone who believes in justice and believes donald trump needs to be not only investigated but also indicted and prosecuted for the things he's done wrong, you need to wait and be patient because

releasing these details and this information early on can only compromise merrick garland's investigation and make his job that much more difficult. obviously if you're donald trump you may be yelling that you want transparency, but you really don't because if those details come out, they're only going to box you in and make it harder for you to assert what it is you have been trying to claim, which is this caught me by surprise, i turned everything over previously. all those things has been debunked. in truth, the more that comes out, at least earlier on, it makes it harder for everyone involved and it's not a good thing. that's why you see merrick garland and the doj take such a very fine-tuned approach in terms of what it is they actually did let out in the interest of justice following the judge's orders with respect to their redactions and this affidavit and search warrant. >> in speaking of the contents of the initial boxes that were turned over to the national archives and what was in them,

this affidavit reads this. newspapers, magazines, printed news articles, printouts, notes, presidential records, and a lot of classified records. of most significant concern was that highly classified records were unfoldered, intermixed with other records and otherwise improperly identified. >> that's right. there's also a note about how some of the former president's own handwriting had been on some of those documents, which would of course make them presidential documents. it shows that the former president is somewhat of a pack rat. we heard that described in nbc news' own reporting about these last-minute hurdles that were happening with him trying to get the documents together, things being haphazard and thrown together. there also is a line in here

regarding -- it cites a january 18th, 2021 cbs miami news article which says moving trucks were spotted at mar-a-lago. i mean, that's before the actual transfer of power took place. even though we know about this haphazard idea of things being moved quickly, there were already these moving trucks at mar-a-lago before donald trump's presidency actually ended. that's in a very heavily redacted portion of this affidavit, so we don't know what the context. but i think the time line is also somewhat important here. even though we should always keep our eyes on the big picture, donald trump was not supposed to have any presidential records stored back in mar-a-lago. he's supposed to those stored by the national archives. they eventually would have been at the donald trump presidential library, whenever that came about. but in the meantime, those are

government documents that belong to the government. there's obviously going to be for generations studying the trump presidency all the documents are very key to understanding exactly what was happening in the white house during the trump presidency. >> so this question is either going to go to ken or frank. not sure who knows the answer. is there ever an incident in which a president, an outgoing president in leaving the white house with his stuff, you're moving out of your house, you got the boxes and the moving people there, that the contents of what you are removing from the white house is searched to make sure there's no classified material inside of it. frank, do you know the answer to that? >> so the short answer is no, i'm not aware of any search. but here's why. the last -- a separation.

you have the oval office and the document experts whose job it is every day to retain government records. so the problem here is trump mixed those two places, and he would routinely reportedly take classified up into the residence. we even know from reporting that pat cipollone had communicated to the archives, yeah, the stuff in the residence needs to go. he has classified. so it's this mixture that has really caused the problem and maybe precluded professionals from doing what was right or precluded trump from doing what was right. but seems to me he squirreled this away in the residence intentionally. >> let's bring in andrea mitchell who was on the air when this broke and did a superb job of breaking it down for everybody and explaining exactly how important it was as to what we're reading in this full thing. andrea, it's astounding specifically the classification of some of the material that was found or that is believed to be stored at mar-a-lago and the

reason for which they felt as if it needed to be returned to the archives. talk about that. >> what's so astounding about this is that this was in the initial 15 boxes back in january that were finally turned over to the archives, not even what was found in the search. so we know that even in that initial -- initial 15 boxes to the archives last january there were documents marked human, human intelligence. these are human beings. these are spies that it takes years to embed in foreign governments, sometimes at the highest levels, and could be compromised by the disclosure, by the careless way they were stored at mar-a-lago or something more overt, by something involving trading secrets. i mean, we don't know what is involved, actually, and if it is charged, what could be charged. but just the whole casual nature

of this alone is so remarkable. there were, you know, defense information, national defense information documents. there were documents involving, you know, si, signals intelligence, our secret methods. we don't want the bad guys to know how sophisticated our intelligence, our electronic intelligence gathering is so that if they think they're talking on a secure phone, they're really not, that we can overhear our foreign leaders saying something to his defense minister, let's say, or terrorists. just the very fact that signals intelligence is exposed or is made vulnerable is enough reason to justify in most cases getting a search warrant right away,in this case this was already in january, asking the trump lawyers and eventually a subpoena, the visit in june,

very high levels, you know, the top -- the top intelligence expert in the national security division. and also of course, a senior u.s. attorney. and then, of course, the search warrant when it became very clear to them -- and these a redactions, but clear to them that witnesses would be -- would be vulnerable if this were all released. this was the affidavit that gave the judge a reason to cite probable cause of at least three possible, potential crimes. this is probable cause. it does not mean this is beyond a reasonable doubt. it's just probable cause to adjust search warrant which debunks to any careful reader -- debunk all the claims of full cooperation. what i have printed out in large-enough for all of us to read clearly is what the former president said on social media. happily redacted, nothing mentioned on nuclear.

well, they mentioned national defense information, so we don't know what that is. a total public relations subterfuge by the fbi -- or close working relationship regarding document turnover. we gave them much, et cetera. and it talks about hatred and animosity. the unredacted portions and certainly what we can infer from the run-up to the redacted portions, there was plenty of opportunity, it was more than a year since he left office, and lots of attempts to get real cooperation, and also specific language saying that if this were released in a fully unredacted form, it would compromise or intimate witnesses, multiple witnesses. so it tells you that this investigation has a lot of witnesses and a lot of people, and that there is evidence that they say is in the redacted portions that there's also been

plenty of reason to believe they have already seen witness indemnification attempts, obstruction. >> ooh, a lot to get through and take in as we continue to sift through this affidavit. as always, my friend, andrea mitchell, thank you. thanks to ken, ryan, frank, charles. we'll continue our coverage. stay with us. you're watching msnbc. and... take. it. on. with rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. it can stop irreversible joint damage. and rinvoq can leave skin clear or almost clear in psa. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer;

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welcome back. it's the bottom of the hour around 1:31. we are about 60 minutes since this affidavit was released, the redacted copy of the search warrant affidavit for mar-a-lago. we have it in our hands. it's about 38 pages or so. there's a heck of a lot in it, half of which is basically redacted. there is classification of the documents found at mar-a-lago, some of which are astounding that we'll be talking about, the correspondence, of course,

between the national archives, the department of justice along with the former president's team. and then there is this justification for the search warrant that was issued back in early august. we're going to get to all of that with my team. i want to bring in nbc senior white house correspondent kelly o'donnell, former federal prosecutor shan wu, msnbc contributor and senior official chuck rosenberg, and charles coleman as well. you're outside the white house there, kelly, and a lot of folks wondering how the white house is responding, if they're sifting through it themselves. the president as well, if he has anything to say. >> well, the white house, meaning the current biden white house, when we refer to the former president, i'm sure that gets confusing to viewers sometimes. but president biden has said that he is not involved in this. this is a matter for the justice department. earlier in the week he had said that he had had no advance

warning that there would be a search at mar-a-lago, and today when asked by one of our colleagues, a reporter in the pool at an event for president biden that was unrelated to any of this, at the end of the event, as we often do when we ask about the news of the day, the president was asked, do you believe there is any compromise to national security based on what has happened at mar-a-lago? and president biden said we'll let the department of justice determine that and we'll see what happens. that kind of question, which is one that has been raised by lawmakers, we've seen the senate intelligence committee, which is evenly divided, republicans and democrats, most committees are not split as evenly, but intelligence always is. they have said that they want to have a review, a damage

assessment, if you will, at mar-a-lago of the documents seized during the execution of the search warrant, and what was the possible risk to national security. those questions have been asked by lawmakers. the department of justice has indicated this is an active investigation and typically that needs to operate in its own sphere and not have oversight while the investigation is going on. clearly the members of congress have some oversight over what happens at the department of justice. there's a lot of distancing in the biden administration from the department of justice. there was a question you asked just a short time before the break about does anybody look in the boxes? >> yeah. >> so the general services administration is responsible for the transport of goods from a president who is leaving office to their home. what is interesting is they are simply putting together the truck and the order to ship it. it is the outgoing transition team that is required to do the

packing of the boxes, the organizing of pallets, and to sign for those contents. so the outgoing transition team, people who are working for in this case trump would have signed that those goods that were being packed were necessary for the office of the former president. or his personal belongings. and so that's how they determined that. the presumption is that you're not taking government records you're not entitled to, so there isn't a looking in each of the boxes based on the reporting i've been doing on this, but that is how it's done. as you know, it's done on january 20th in a very hasty way with packing done in the days leading up to it. for this particular former president, it was a particularly hasty circumstance because he didn't want to leave office and didn't think he would have to, not like the end of a two-term presidency when there's a lot of packing that goes on for a

longer period of time. >> a lot of good information there, kelly. we thank you for filling us in on that. actually, i want to pick up on one thing kelly just brought up. chuck, if you could fill us in on the damage assessment. i know that hasn't yet been launched. some of the conversations we had on air with folks that know about when a damage assessment is actually launched, there could be an informal assessment happening as they are sifting through some of the documents that they seized from mar-a-lago. but what is the justification for holding off on that? >> well, first, just take the notion of a damage assessment, yasmin, outside of this political vortex. when we have highly classified information and we worry that it's been compromised in some way intentionally, unintentionally, willfully, negligently, whatever it may be, it's incumbent on the intelligence community to try and figure out if any damage has been done, if damage has been

done, what do we need to do to protect our assets? i don't want to say is a routine thing because fortunately we don't have routine compromises of highly classified information. but when we do, when we fear it, then we do a damage assessment. and so, look, i assume that this is just something that is reflexively done within the intelligence community. i've seen the results of these types of assessments when i was a federal prosecutor and when i was at the fbi. it's something we take very seriously because we spend a lot of human capital and, you know, money in order to stand up these intelligence systems, signals intelligence, human intelligence, all sorts of ways in which we collect information to help protect the national security of the united states. so i assume it's being done. it is done when we believe there's been a compromise, and we have to think of it not as republicans or democrats or left or right, but outside of the

political vortex as something we need to do to protect the national security interests of the united states. >> so here's what we're going to do, guys, with the three brilliant legal minds that i have on this panel. i first want to talk about what is standing out to you amongst these 38 pages. and then we're going to address what happens next. a lot of folks watching this saying, okay, what is going to come of all of this? chuck let me start with you and ask you that question. what stood out to you? >> well, you know, i was actually more interested in the memorandum that the government filed with the redacted affidavit than in the affidavit itself because i wasn't terribly surprised that we didn't get the good stuff. and the stuff we did get t procedural history in many ways was largely known. so i would commend to your viewers, yasmin, that they take a look at the memory foam that was

take a look at the memo because you don't want witnesses to be retaliated against. you want to protect the safety of law enforcement officers. we saw what happened in the fbi field office in ohio. you want to abide the law and if they require grand jury information and information derived from grand jury investigations be kept secret. you don't want to give a road map to people who might obstruct the investigation. last but not least, you want to protect the privacy interests of individuals who may be mentioned in an affidavit but haven't done anything wrong. it's a very cogent, very thoughtful explanation by the government of why the most important part of this affidavit, the probable cause basis, remains redacted. read it. it makes sense. >> let me read a part of it, chuck, for folks, especially the

part that you were just referring to because you think it's incredibly important. talking about possible witness indemnification. some information falls within more than one category. witnesses may be subject to human intimidation. it may be subject to grand jury testimony and related material and then information whose disclosure could risk the safety of law enforcement personnel which we have already seen after the search took place, information whose disclosure could harm legitimate privacy interests of third parties. shan wu, let me bring you into the conversation here and ask you that same question. what stood out to you? >> i think what really stands out to me is that the justice department didn't move any more

quickly than it did. i mean, looking at this with my cap on as a former federal prosecutor, former counsel to a attorney general, looking at the headings, it's really alarming. i mean this information was scattered across the resort area with really no security for it whatsoever. there's a big blackedout section of probable cause to believe that they were still on the premises, remaining national defense information, classified information despite what had already been turned over and despite what had been told to them. so that really paints a very alarming picture even without those details. they understood that there was good reason to believe that they weren't being told the truth from the trump representatives. secondly, the thing that just jumped out at me was the exposure for the trump lawyers. if you look at the letter of the representations they're making, i would be concerned if i were

them. >> it's interesting that you bring up why it took the justice department so long. i want to draw on that just a little bit, shan, because i'm wondering if you feel as if the reason why they waited was giving a former president the opportunity to abide by the law, right, and return the information, the boxes t classified documents on their own instead of seeming as of -- because that's we heard from the justice department over and over again, and even from the current president, president biden, in not politicizing this process. >> absolutely. i think that's exactly right. you know, i've been in meetings where people were thinking of the ramifications publicly of a criminal investigation, and these would have been really tough meetings, white-knuckle time, worrying about how it might look. the mission of attorney general garland was to restore the integrity of the justice department after it had been debased by the barr justice

department. ironically, though, sometimes you have to move more quickly and be able to take action at the risk of looking politicize to make sure you're really protecting the institution. that's really the tough place that this doj found itself in. >> charles, do you think it will hinder this investigation that is currently developing into the former president and the classified documents that were being held at mar-a-lago because they waited so long, or too long? >> ultimately i don't. i think this investigation is not going to be impeded by what we've seen in terms of the delay in time, if you can call it that. the doj has been lining up their witnesses and getting together the things they need for this investigation for quite some time. and so i think every effort was made and has been made by merrick garland to ensure that he does not in any way, shape, or form reveal anything that is going to make more difficult the task of his u.s. attorneys that are working under him, as well

as the fbi who's working with him in this very historic and important investigation. but i did want to point something out. i'm with chuck in as much as i did not find a whole lot in the affidavit that i found to be incredibly striking, and that wasn't a surprise for me. but what i did find of interest, which was not contained in the affidavit, was the attached letter from trump's attorneys to the doj. what i found interesting about that was this conversation where they lay out the notion of the president's ability to declassify documents, but they do not at any point state that the president actually declassified any particular document. we know as lawyers that if, in fact, you're going to play that card, you would then immediately follow it up by saying he has now declassified a certain xyz documents and identify who those documents are. they didn't do that in that letter, which completely undercuts the defense they've been trying to assert from the start and the outset of this

entire incident with the search warrant, which was these were documents which were declassified. that completely undercuts that defense and i found that to be very interesting. >> so chuck rosenberg, i think what everybody is asking now is what's next? what is the department of justice doing? >> they told you what they were doing, yasmin, they just haven't told you how they're doing it. they have an ongoing investigation, which is why large portions of the affidavit have been redacted. they have numerous witnesses that they are talking to and protecting, which is completely appropriate. remember, search warrants come at the beginning of investigations or sort of the early middle, and not typically at the very end. so we don't know precisely what they're doing or how they're doing it, nor are we entitled to know that, but we know they're still doing it. i think charles made a really

interesting and important point by noting what's missing from the attorney's letter. but there's something else i would add to that. the three statutes that the government relied upon to get the search warrant don't require that the information that's mishandled or destroyed be classified information at all. so we can debate, you know, all day if you'd like, yasmin, whether or not the president can or did declassify information on his way out the door. it doesn't appear that he did, but it also doesn't matter. and the statute that mr. trump's lawyer cited in the letter to the government is an entirely different statute. it's not the one they relied on to get the search warrant. so charles points out a really interesting flaw in the letter, but there are more, and i think the more we read it, the more we'll find. >> but also -- to your point, it doesn't really matter.

but how would you declassify a document that contains such sensitive information as to make vulnerable human intelligence sources overseas? >> well, you really can't unless you go through a significant process with the agency that generated the information and that has the equities in it. for instance, the government -- even hypothetically, yasmin, if the former president was able to declassify everything, which i don't believe you can do -- i think it's fanciful. disclosing that information could still do great harm to the united states. let's not get hung up on whether or not it's classified because the statutes on which the government relied on don't require it, and moreover, there doesn't seem to charles's point to be any evidence that he

actually declassified the stuff. but in the end, it doesn't matter. >> shan, one last one to you. it's this idea of intent. as we have spoken about the former president over and over again over the last six years, there's always this overarching question of how do you prove his intent with whatever matter we're talking about? and i go back, again, to paragraph 24 in this affidavit in which they referred to how this classified information was intermixed with newspapers and photos and personal notes. and i can imagine you got trump attorneys and defense teams looking at that very paragraph and saying, well, he didn't know. >> well, i think to chuck's point, he might theoretically be able to declassify information, but he can't transform national defense information into nonnational defense information. that's going to be a key part of the discussions in terms of what comes next at the justice department. there are going to be a lot of meetings where it is being discussed that exact point,

which is what kind of intent here was there. is there a viable defense of innocuous or carelessness. that's what's going to come next. it's going to be running up the chain. i'm sure garland will be personally involved in this as he already said he was in terms of approve the warrant, as well as the deputy attorney general. at the highest levels they're going to have to debate this question of intent and decide is it there or not, is it chargeable. >> shan, chuck, charles, thanks for talking with me. thank you. i want to bring in now from capitol hill nbc senior national political correspondent is a sahill kapur. are you getting any reaction from the hill today to this affidavit? >> that's right, yasmin. just in the last few minutes we have a statement from a

prominent member of congress that a senator mark warren, the democratic chairman of the senate intelligence committee put out a measured statement in response to the release of this affidavit. i'll read from it. he says it appears based on the affidavit were some of our most sensitive intelligence. he went on to say that the justice department investigation must be allowed to proceed without interference. now, werner is in a position to have access to view highly sensitive and highly classified material pertaining to the united states. it's not entirely clear what he knows here, whether he knows more than what's public. he's certainly in a position to. he noted he and the vice chair, marco rubio, a republican, put out a bipartisan request to the justice department and to the director of national intelligence less than two weeks ago after the mar-a-lago search was conducted asking for a

damage assessment and they wanted to see what that information obtained was. i checked in with warner's office and they do not appear to have gotten the information and they re-upped the request as a result of the alleged classified information being at mar-a-lago. >> i can only imagine the damage done with some of the documents inside mar-a-lago as we learn more about what was taken during that search. let's talk, first, about your reaction to what you've been reading, elena. >> this is not a matter of taking home some office supplies. these documents have great implications for a national

security. even if donald trump did not have mal intent, this is very concerning for our country. and it's something that the justice department should pursue under the full force of the law. i think we will see the biden administration distancing itself and not remarking and not making comment on this investigation. it is difficult enough without biden get involved in the fray but they're turning their eyes toward the mid term and make sure this is not considered a political version but following the law and making sure that americans stay protected. >> do you think that's a smart move for democrats heading into the mid terms, to keep separate this investigation from their political goals come the mid terms? >> i think it's absolutely imperative. and, look, just last night we heard from biden a clear

message, a clear message about defending our country, democracy and the contrast democrats stand for in contrast to their opposition. they have a good story, a good legislative story to tell. everything from the rescue plan to infrastructure to more recently the chips act, the inflation reduction act and now cancelling student debt. they do not need to get into the fray of donald trump. they simply need to stand for a popular agenda and share what can happen if there's a republican majority of what could happen on the democrat senate. there's enough victories there to mobilize and galvanize voters without getting into the drama and the problems of donald trump. >> so, sahill, while you've got it seems democrats and the biden administration not wanting to get into the fray and politicize

what's going on with the department of justice, you have the former president and his team capitalizing on it. >> that's right. we've seen former president trump try to use this entire series of events to tighten his grip on the republican party and there's some evidence that he has been successful at that within his party. our latest nbc poll shows that -- we asked this question about whether republicans identified more with president trump or more with the party as a whole in general. 41% in our recent poll said they identified more with trump, 50% said they identified more with the republican party as a whole. but that trump number was up 7 point from earlier. things were trending in the other direction. many critic were hoping his power over the republican party was fading and we're seeing the opposite happen in the wake of this search and we've seen trump very successful in the past at trying to politicize these

events, whether it was the mueller investigation. now we're seeing it happen here as well. for him to argue that he is being politically targeted by his opponents. there's no evidence for that. there's no evidence that the biden administration is going after trump politically. attorney general merrick garland is an extremely by the book director. christopher wray, there's nothing to suggest he's using it for political end here. it's something trump has run with and a lot of his allies have run with it and some of his potential rivals have also run to trump's defense. the remaining chapter remains to be written but it seems that trump has strengthened his grip in the republican party. outside the republican party we saw people break away from him since the 2020 election and he's done very little to try and win those voters back. >> and we'll have to wait and

see how it all plays out. thank you guys both. appreciate it. that does it for us, everybody. be sure to tune in to "chris jansing reports" weekdays right here. you can also catch me okay weekends, on yasmin vossoughian reports from 2 to 4 p.m. and we pick up the breaking news on the mar-a-lago search affidavit next. mar-a-lago searh affidavit next i say, “so are they.” ♪♪ aleve - who do you take it for? laundry truths: the bargain jug. ♪♪ that's a huge jug of detergent. yeah, isn't it a bargain? you know that bargain detergent is 85% water, right? really? it's this much water! so, i'm just paying for watery soap? that's why i use tide pods. they're super concentrated, so... i'm paying for clean, not water!

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good to be with you. i'm katy tur.

it's a big day here in the united states. the department of justice compelled by a federal court made the incredibly unusual move of releasing an affidavit before charges are filed or declined in an investigation. not only that but the affidavit is for probable cause to get a search warrant for the home and private club of a former president of the united states because the government says that president took home hundreds of classified documents that appear to contain national defense information to an unsecure location when he wasn't supposed to. here is what we learned. beyond classified and top secret markings, the affidavit details the specific markings fbi agents found on some of the documents in the 15 boxes that were returned to the national archives back in january, a year after donald trump left office. in other words, the markings that set off alarm bells at the national archives and eventually led to this whole investigation. hcs, human control