twice might not be the worst line on your presidential resume anymore. we are going to have the very latest on the bombshell new revelations from the investigation into donald trump's mishandling of top secret documents. plus, everything -- and i do mean everything -- that you need to know about president biden's student loan forgiveness plan. and with a post-roe landscape looks like two months in. there are brand-new abortion bans in effect and new fights to stop them. and then, she brought the searing story of teen addiction to life. the free verse novel crank is a painful but beautifully written reckoning of what drug addiction can do to a family and, yes, for that public service, parents, school board members and even some lawmakers have tried to ban this book. author ellen hopkins joins the velshi banned book club to talk about her crucial work, crank. velshi starts right now.

and good morning to you, it is saturday, august 27th. i am ali velshi, we are learning more about why the federal government destroy their decision to conduct the unprecedented surge on the former presidents private residence and why a federal judge granted the warrant for them to do. at less than 24 hours ago, redacted copy of the affidavit for that search warrant was unsealed. the document is what the justice department submitted to a federal judge to convince him to approve the search of mar-a-lago, so that fbi agents could recover the box of materials that properly belong to the united states government, many of which turned out to be classified documents. the affidavit does not contain proof of a crime. but it details why the justice department believes it has probable cause to believe that a crime may have been committed. the justice department calls the affidavit, quote, a roadmap to the government's ongoing investigation. that is why about half of the 38-page document is redacted, per the request of the fbi in

order to preserve the integrity of an investigation that it says is still in its early stages. now what is that investigation about? according to the affidavit, quote, the government is conducting a criminal investigation concerning the improper removal and storage of classified information in unauthorized spaces, as well as the unlawful concealment or removal of government records. obut the redacted affidavit gos on to say, quote, there is also probable cause to believe that evidence of obstruction will be found at the premises, end quote. the fbi search of mar-a-lago on august 8th was the culmination of an extended ordeal that began more than a year ago. as early as may of 2021, two months after the twice impeached insurrectionist president left office in disgrace, the national archives, which is the agency tasked with the proper storage and preservation of presidential records, reached out to trump and his team about missing documents from his time in office. but it was not until january of

this year -- eight months after that -- that the national archives was finally able to retrieve a batch of records that trump improperly took with him from the white house, one of the most secure locations in the entire world, to mar-a-lago, donald trump's private residence and a resort that regularly owes events for a revolving door of people, including foreign politicians. according to the affidavit, the national archives received 15 boxes of government material in that first batch, earlier this year. and 14 of those 15 boxes, officials found a total of 184 unique document documents, with classification markings. 25 of them marked top secret, 92 mark secret, 67 marked confidential -- curiously, some of those documents contained handwritten notes that trump is believed to have added after his time in office. he can't do that. most alarmingly, some of those documents were also marked hcs,

that sensor human intelligence control systems. that the highly classified designation that notes did notes that the documents are from accounting destin clandestine human source with another country, essentially, a spy, or another human informant working for the u.s. government abroad. and remember, this is just from the first batch that was recovered by the government and got him the affidavit. we now know that the department of justice recovered more documents during a trip to mar-a-lago in june and offered trump multiple opportunities to return all of the materials that he improperly took. still, the justice department did not think that trump was being fully forthcoming with them. they took that suspicion and seemingly corroborated with a, quote, significant number of civilian witnesses. nwhy civilian witnesses have access to these things remains a mystery. when the fbi conducted its search of mar-a-lago roughly three weeks ago, agents seized 20 additional boxes of material discovered in a first floor

storage room and office and a bedroom. among that batch was 11 more sets of classified documents, including some that were marked tss sihai ts sci a type of document that can only be viewed in a secure location. can't take over according to vice, and can't take a camera in -- the former president will in fact be prosecuted. here is what andrew weissmann, who worked in the justice department for more than two decades and previously served as the general counsel for the fbi told my colleague, nicole wallace, dennis last night. >> when i read this today, my big, overarching take is -- and i know this is just a prediction and speculation -- but i would say it's an educated one. it's that the former president is going to be prosecuted. what we are seeing is so much worse, both in terms of the volume, the length of time, and event in the sort of repeated

obstruction and false statements that were made. i don't see, if you are somebody like merrick garland, who is a former judge, who thinks about precedent, about treating like defendants equally, i don't see how you avoid that conclusion in this case. >> joining me now is barbara mcquade a former united states attorney for the 18 district of michigan, she's also an msnbc legal analyst and a co-host of the sisters in law podcast, who i don't think got much sleep last night because we were on tv to get a quite late. barbara, good morning to you, thank you for being with us. what is your take on what andrew weissmann said? >> i agree to an extent. i think he would probably also agree that further investigation is necessary. because while we do have all the indicators that he has got the documents and he is not supposed to have them, and a lengthy timeline has gone by, where he was able asked to return them and refused -- but we have him acting through proxies along the way.

we see lawyers involved and, i suppose, a potential defense here could be, i'm a busy, man i don't pay attention to these things, i love these things to my peeling feeling people. -- truth social will undermine that kind of defense. but i imagine that is why the justice department says this is an ongoing investigation, and that they are interviewing a significant number of civilian witnesses. i also think that this surveillance video could be very telling here. because if you find trump himself going through these documents or, as it has been reported, waiting around and showing off the letter from kim jong-un, then i think it is airtight. but i think that is the piece right now that is missing. and i imagine it may be that investigators already have that information. but i would imagine that that is what they are trying to tie up. >> there are -- for all those people who have made statements that this will lead to prosecution, a lot of them bring up the caveat that this is going to be dangerous. it is going to be polarizing. it is going to be tough politically for the country.

it may even trigger violence, because even the search at mar-a-lago triggered violence, by some trump supporters. merrick garland has been super cautious, much of the frustration of people who would like to see charges laid against trump for various things that have happened, including the insurrection. does his caution to this point, he's almost absolute refusal to be politicized, like his predecessors in the trump administration, help his case? or help his argument, if you bring charges? >> i think it does. i think he brings with him a lot of credibility because he has been so circumspect in everything he has done and everything he says. i think there is a segment of the population who will always cry foul if anything happens to their dear leader. and so i think they kind of [inaudible] care. they are going to refer to him as biden justice department, and that's [inaudible] the matter. but i think for the sensible middle of america -- and i think it's a larger segment than sometimes we maybe think -- i think we have to look at this and take this very seriously.

and i think that merrick garland's caution there will in your to the goodwill of the justice department. >> let me ask you about the charges or the concerns of mishandling of documents that never should've left the white house, versus the discussion and the affidavit and would andrew weissmann just said about actual obstruction charges. what is the distinction there? because if i take documents i am not supposed to take, i'm guilty of something, in theory. but that seems different to me, then obstruction. >> yeah, and in fact, obstruction is the most serious charge that is listed in the affidavit, it's a 20-year felony. and the particular statute that they have used here, ali, is -- they have all kinds of obstruction statutes. this is the one that relates to concealing of documents. so, it seems that the theory here would be along the lines of, we asked for these documents in january and we took 15 boxes. we asked to get in june and you gave us one envelope and you swore a statement that's it,

that's it, they are all gone. and then in august we found 27 more. and so at some point along the way, somebody, lied to them. about why they continue to have these documents. now whether that was donald trump himself or it was his lawyers, including the lawyer who signed the document saying we have now returned all of it in june, i don't know which of those people, if any, might be charged. but that is a very serious offense. and it kind of goes hand in hand with the other charges, ali, it kind of strengthens the others. because it suggests that you know that you have something you are not supposed to have if you are lying about. it >> barbara, thank you for your amazing analysis and for joining me this morning, barbara mcquade is a former united states attorney and msnbc legal analyst. i'm joined by the democratic representative of the virgin islands, stacey plaskett, she's a member of the house ways and means committee who previously served as a house manager for the second impeachment trial of donald trump. representative, good to see this morning, thank you for being with us. >> great to see, you it's good to be here with you. >> i spoke with your colleague eric swalwell of california

yesterday and i asked him about the politicization of this, that the response from many republicans yesterday, that there should have been more transparency, which i assume means more redaction -- but nobody seems to have any real reason to be on the wrong side of this thing. we are just a polarized country, that people cannot see, they cannot read a 38-page affidavit and come to the same conclusions on it. what do you make of this from the political side? >> would i make from this political side is, you are noticing the dissipation of noise from my republican colleagues. because they know that the president is in trouble. the notion that after we have the presidential records act, after watergate, which meant that all documents belong to the people, belong to the white house, does not belong to the person of the president -- and to have 15 boxes, first earlier this, year and now additional boxes, with top

secret documents in them, clearly shows that the president has done some wrongdoing. t has and so, what they are goio do is try to call a foul. and what we are going to do is continue through the january 6th committee, hopefully through the justice department, continue the investigation, while democrats are going to hone in on the notion that we are about to the people. we are not about politics. the polarization and the intransigence of the republicans just show that they are about power. while, from the legislation that we have been putting forward, we are showing that we have about the people. >> you are a former department of justice official. there is a discussion underway right now, amongst legal experts -- i had some of it with barbara a moment ago -- about the difference between a technical violation of the rules -- by the, way for which, generals generally speaking, more normal people do get prosecuted. or something, else obstruction of justice --

or the fact that for 18 months these documents have been sitting around mar-a-lago -- who knows where they have gone. it include human intelligence, human sources, very, very dangerous stuff. what do you make of the idea that a prosecution of the president will further polarize an entirely polarized country, but that's at some point, someone has got to draw a line about these kinds of [inaudible] >> sure. i think that what we need to show is that no one is above the law. and i think that americans [inaudible] that. let's remember that there is precedent for criminal prosecution of individuals at the highest level. let's not forget spiro agnew, who is vice president, when he was convicted of crimes. -- and people who have short short memories need to be reminded of this. and with that, we are going to make sure that human intelligence, those individuals, were putting themselves on the line, to give this intelligence to our agencies, our national

security agencies, are safe. this former president put those people in jeopardy. and i think they understand that. they gave him apple opportunity to give this information back to the national archives, back to the places it was supposed to be. and we can see them from -- the affidavit, that he clearly did not do that. >> so, separate and apart from the idea that he may have obstructed and that he may have done something, it appears, that he shouldn't have done, that was contrary to the law, what about the damages assessment? how do we -- that's a separate thing. we need intelligence agencies to say, here is the potential damage, here are the potential spies and informants around the world who are in danger, who here are the potential people in foreign governments who would share information with america, who now would not do so, or may be in fear for their life -- how do we establish that?

that's obviously not going to play in the news. we are not going to see that kind of documentation. who leads that? and how are we going to figure out -- because there must be a lot of people who have not slept for the past 24 hours, figuring out what information about them has leaked. >> sure. and thankfully, at the justice department, and particularly after symptom burr 11th, we have established court that can allow examination and can allow assessments of these outside of these public sphere. and then report back to the public in a broader sense about what is happening. der sense abouwe need to ensuree people are kept safe. and therefore, information that many of us, and i'm sure you in the media would love to have transparent, cannot be so for national security purposes. but at the same time, my hope is, is that, the american people are going to recognize that we can do multiple things at the time. we can ensure that the safety of our national security and prosecute a president who, for all purposes, is --

not only breaks the law in terms of the espionage act, potentially, but also obstructs justice. and the redactions and the need for the redactions show the fear that the justice department has that there may be, like with the january 6th committee, like in other investigations, the mueller investigation, we have a president who will try to intimidate witnesses. >> and at the same time, those of us who are in the legislature, are going to continue to legislate. >> democratic representative stacey plaskett of the united states virgin islands, thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you. >> to paraphrase a quote from the movie the dark night, contacts for the wealthy, and oh in bats and i, but forgive students of their debt and millions in the working class, peoples hair is on fire. -- student debt relief plan, but why it still may be worth doing. plus, poor candidate quality control may finally be catching up with senate republicans. how candidates running in these five races maybe putting the

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happened. after a long time coming, some student loan debt in this country's being forgiven. according to the united states department of education, roughly 27 million borrowers who make $125,000 or less annually will be eligible to receive up to $20,000 in student debt relief. under the plan, which represents the long awaited fulfillment of a campaign promise, if you meet the income guidelines and you also receive federal government backed pell grants, you can get $20,000 of

student -- if not, you are eligible to -- there is a lot of excitement around this move, and it's a big one. but there is a fair amount of criticism, so i want to look at some of that first. first, off some bore we say $10,000 to $20,000 in debt forgiveness simply doesn't cut. some democrats agree with that, by the way. $10,000 is just a drop in the bucket for many people and student loans this professionally affects people of color. for giving a little more would go a long way. on the other hand, there is the argument that this creates something called moral hazard, that the government is rewarding people for making the personal choice to take out loans that they may not be able to pay back to put themselves through college. and that leads out those who chose not to attend college or did not take loans for it. then there is the argument, largely coming from the right, that forgiving student loan debt could cause already high inflation to for the rise. to those folks, i say, if we are going to play the inflation card, it's about time we stop blaming our country's poorest people for. it's possible that inflation

sticks around a little longer than we hoped, because of the student debt relief program. but no one says anything about inflation when we give rich people rewards or tax cuts. and i will give you an example of that. the 2017 tax law was signed by a previous president, made it so that private jet owners could have 100% of an arrow planes cost immediately. crickets about that from the right. student loan debt is about an issue that one in five americans deal with. so, we can't refuse to solve the problem just because it may be inflationary. but there are still a ton of questions to be answered. so, after the quick break, i'm going to talk to these two experts on the. andrei perry is the brookings institution fellow, and reporter any nova. stay with us. stay with us steak and crispy bacon. but what about the new boss? it looks so good it makes me hangry! settle down there, big guy the new subway series. what's your pick?

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sweet pillows of softness! this is soft! holy charmin! oh! excuse me! roll it back, everybody!! charmin ultra soft is so cushiony soft, you'll want more! but it's so absorbent, you can use less. enjoy the go with charmin. >> president biden's decision to forgive a certain amount of student loan debt was welcome relief for millions of americans. but i think you might have a ton of questions about it. i certainly do. so i want to bring in andre

perry, a senior fellow at the brookings institution, a scholar in residence at the american university, and the author of no your price, valuing that black lives and property in america's black cities. and annie nova, personal finance reporter for cnbc. thank you for being here for this important discussion. annie, let me start with you. for the people that are disappointed that only ten or $20,000 will be wiped from their debt, there were some people asking for a lot more, and there were some people expecting zero -- how do the biden administration get to these numbers? >> for sure. so the biden administration was really struggling with what to come out with in terms of the student loan forgiveness plan. and that's why we have not seen a decision sooner. it's a year and a half into the presidency. there was a lot of pressure for them to come to a decision but it was hard for the president to arrive at the right number. if you remember during 2020 democratic primary, you had biden's -- elizabeth warren and bernie

sanders coming out with much -- most followers, and sanders was calling to erase all of the, debt, all 1.7 trillion dollars outstanding. and so as the months went on, biden stuck to his campaign promise, he had come out in support of $10,000. he had been pushed by warren and sanders to come out with [inaudible] plans, but he really seem stuck on the number $10,000. at the same time, he was under intense pressure from key players, like senator chuck schumer, and the naacp, to go further than the $10,000. -- but i have heard this criticism and i will go further by expanding the relief to 25 -- [inaudible] pell grants are for families that usually earn under $60,000 a year, undergraduate students. so, for that population, a double the relief, $20,000. >> andre, there are people

literally with endemic every demographic, who have student loans, including some people who are much older than you think you would have student loans. but there is a disproportionate impact on people of color and women. women of color the hardest impacted. so, this goes a long way -- or there is a long way to go before student debt is eliminated. but does this change any of that? does this change any of the gaps that you write about and that you think about, that persist between women and men, between black and hispanic people and white people in this country and the debt that they carry and the wealth that they have? >> in terms of closing racial gaps, $10,000 of relief is negligible on closing the gap. $20,000 does a little damage. my colleague, coral rumor, and i found that the more death that you eliminate, the more you close the racial wealth gap. so, by capping it at 125, 000, which we are essentially doing, is missing the many middle

income and upper middle income people of color and women who are making high income and did everything they were told to do, in terms of getting an education, but they had significantly less wealth. and so $125,000 looks different for many populations. and so this plan is simply going to miss those people who may be higher income but much -- have much lower wealth. >> annie, that's an interesting point, and it does play to this whole moral ash hazard issue that is coming up, mostly from -- lower education levels, who feel that, wait a, second nobody forced you to get an education and no one forced you to take alone. and it's kind of your business if you weren't able to pay that back. and when you give 10,000 or $20,000 to these people who can't pay their loans, backward about those people who did not take on college debt or didn't go to college at all? what do they get for this?

>> yeah, absolutely. my [inaudible] have been coming in from all over, i paid off my, dad [inaudible] found a way to work through college and i didn't have to take out loans because of that. and why are people getting this relief? and maybe what i would've done things differently. at the same time, i think, the advocates in experts i've talked to, say there's just this increasing pressure on the government to make changes and to respond to a system that was just so flawed. prior to the pandemic, when the economy was in one of its healthiest periods in history, only half of student loan bore worse or even repaying your student loans. a whopping quarter were in delinquency or default. another quarter had applied for temporary relief measures. borrowers really struggling to repay their loans. and a lot of the government promises mean programs have not been filled. and so there was pressure for them to do something right after the war was struggling with that. >> andre, let's talk about

wealth creation for a second. because you and i have talked about this through the pandemic, and the aid that was given to people. when it comes to minorities in this country, people of color -- black people in particularly -- there has been a major setback. there's been a setback, in some cases, by hundreds of years, from white wealth creation. so, it is a recent phenomenon that there are black families with that ability to create wealth, handed into the children, pay for their college, and have enough for retirement. there is a structural issue here that needs to be saved. and during the democratic presidential primaries, there were real discussions about putting money away for black children so that they could have a college education and not have debt. and you and i discussed that that was actually meaningful. $50,000 targeted for someone at birth could actually start to change the wealth gap. does this at least get this in the right direction? i know you said $10,000 is not much. and $20,000 makes a bit of a mark. d >> hopefully, the political dominoes will start to fall on this. because we have a knowledge

economy. and higher education is as basic as primary and secondary school. but we do not have parents taking out loans to send their parents -- what we are doing at the post secondary level -- and something that is severely missed in these arguments about unfairness is that we do need people to go to college. we are compelling people to go to college. and tuition has increased threefold over the last 30 years. and so, given that predicament, we almost have to provide some relief to stabilize an economy and to encourage an economy -- and economy to stay competitive. in a global stage. competitive. in many cases, we make political choices for vulnerable populations. we provided bailouts to farmers. we provided bailouts to homeowners and even married

couples. in this economy, if we do not figure out a way to one, bailout student forwards, and create a new system that eliminates the need for student loans in the first place, then we are not doing ourselves a service. biden is just doing the retroactive work. he needs to look forward to creating a new higher ed system as well. >> thank you to both of a you this morning. dr. andre perry, senior fellow at the brookings institution and annie nova, personal finance reporter for cnbc. history shows us that most midterm elections are typically an absolute cakewalk for the party that is not in the white house. but there is a growing chance that senate republicans could end up learning a tough lesson this november. candidate quality still matters. and while there seems to be no filter for certain male candidates in the gop, women, no matter how qualified, competent or capable, struggled to be seen as electable. our own ali vitale gets into it

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they say. the republican party may have a problem with both. as the midterms approach, the primaries are producing a pool of republican senate candidates who are not quite up to snuff. but don't take my word for. take his -- >> there is probably a greater likelihood the house flips than the senate. senate races are just different. they are statewide. candidate quality has a lot to do with the outcome. >> mcconnell is doing there is tempering expectations of a red wave, or at least a republican take over the senate to november. at the start of this, year the smart money to the democrats would likely lose both chambers of congress. but now, as the cook political report puts it, the queen is in the air for control of the senate. just one flip seat for either

republicans or democrats would give that party control of the senate. hence, every candidate counts. so, i want to take a look at some of the candidates who might be weighing on mcconnell's mind. they're running four seats in the highly competitive states of arizona, georgia, pennsylvania, wisconsin and ohio. all right, let's start in wisconsin, we send it -- incumbent republican senator ron johnson is vying for a third term. johnson has garnered a fair share of criticism for his stance on abortion, he's perpetuation of dubious covid treatments, and his crusade to cut social security and medicare. senator johnson is a trump devotee. he has been one of the senate's most vocal election deniers and insurrection apologists. the house committee investigating january 6th revealed that johnson's chief of staff tried to deliver a slate of fake electors backing donald trump to then vice president mike pence. johnson has changed his story about it several times, telling

a local reporter just this week, quote, my involvement in that attempt to deliver span the course of a couple of seconds. i knew nothing about it. okay, so you are sitting at home thinking, most of the republicans in the senate in the house chair johnson sentiment that the 2020 election was stolen, so this doesn't make johnson the most unelectable in the eyes of this republican party. so in the competition for who is the worst candidate, johnson probably doesn't take the prize. let's look at arizona democratic senator mark kelly. he was looking vulnerable until trump pushed the republican party to nominate this, guy blake masters. masters is a venture capitalist. he is a political novelist, though he's freakishly well-known among online far-right extremists. in fact, last month a new york times reported on his past track record of posting on far-right message boards. unsurprisingly, he claims that the 2020 election was illegitimate. he once blamed america's gun violence on black americans. he has extreme views on

abortion, except we won't see that reflected on his campaign website. just this week he softened his tone on abortion and scrubbed his website's policy page of his tough abortion stances because extremist views, especially on abortion, worked well in gop primaries. they work less well in a statewide election. j.d. vance is running for senate seat in ohio. he is a self proclaimed hillbilly turned millionaire, former venture capitalist, and an author. he recently compared abortion to slavery. he claims president biden is purposely flooding the heartland with fentanyl to kill trump supporters and he believes people without children -- the childless left, as he calls them -- make bad legislators. he was vehemently anti trump until he was vehemently pro trump. and vance is no now a proud owner of the endorsement of a man he once called america's hitman. herschel walker, the ex football star, is going head to head with senator raphael warnock in georgia. he has name recognition but

that's not always a good thing. especially when the name is associated with domestic violence. walker's ex-wife says he once held a gun to her temple, and threatened to, quote, blow her brains out. walker, interestingly, doesn't deny these accusations but blames his past violence on struggles with mental health. he lied about working on law enforcement and about being an fbi agent. those claims were recently debunked by the atlanta journal-constitution. he has been accused of hiding three children that he fathered after chiding absentee black fathers, and has been criticized for shady business ventures. it kind of seems like everything that comes out of his mouth is nonsense. he recently attacked the newly passed health care and climate bill, saying the money is going to trees, asking, quote, don't we have enough trees around here? all right, finally, we've got the television doctor, mehmet oz, a longtime new jersey resident running for senate in pennsylvania. his opponent, the pennsylvania lieutenant governor john fetterman has masterfully

highlighted causes lack of connection to the state. office has attempted and failed as portraying himself as an average joe. he recently posted a video of himself inside a grocery store -- force he gets the -- wrong. he then goes on to list the price of vegetables for his wife's crudités, which is super relate to pull. dr. oz has been known to spread misleading science free medical alternatives. he recently released emails showing that oz promoted the anti malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, directly to the white house, despite having no proof that it -- open to clients to endorse oz and she is the one who created him. but he did get the endorsement of another tv personality. and that is with all these candidates have in common. they were handpicked by the former president. and they all claim that the 2020 election was illegitimate. if these are the guys the gop is counting on to save the senate, good luck with that. te, good luck with that.

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because every little girl watching tonight sees that this is a country of possibilities. >> those two women you just saw, hillary clinton and kamala harris, and many things in common. we know them both as former united states senators, accomplish lawyers and presidential candidates. both of them have made history, with clinton being the first female presidential nominee for a major political party and harris being the first female vice president. but they've got something else in common as well. they both aim to be the leader of the free world and in that effort they both lost. clinton and harris join the ranks of several other women we have run and to describe the astonishingly old and white pattern of as presidents. but for whatever reason, america didn't find them to be electable. perhaps it's a sexist little secret that not so subtly dictates the psyche of the american voter, and because we've never had a madam president, there is no benefit

of the doubt. there's just actually doubt. polling will tell you that america is ready to finally have a woman in the white house. but come election day, it never seems to work out that way. nbc's own ali vitali tackles this political losing streak and the driving force behind it, in a brand-new and important book, electable: why america hasn't put a woman in the white house yet, with one-on-one testimony from the women who took 2020 by storm. coming, up ali, the other member of the ali v joins me -- and what it might take for america to have the first female vice president. ice president.

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to discuss her new book, electable: why america hasn't put a woman in the white house yet, -- is nbc correspondent -- capitol hill correspondent, ali vitali, the other member of the ali v club, my friend, i have so much to talk to you about this. but actually, it's all in the book. so i want to go through some excerpts with you and have you tell me the stories about it. the first excerpt is on page seven. it reads, there is also a well worn -- just something about her too, you'll hear it -- openly seeking power, showing their ambition, exuding the stereotypically masculine leadership qualities acquired to obtain these offices. but penalized for doing so. it sounds like, quote, i just want to vote for a woman, but just not that woman.

or, i can't quite place my finger on, but there's something about her that i just don't like or don't trust or can't vote for. i've heard dozens for that versions of that dozens of times -- >> you, how many times have you and i both hear this? i'm too thankful to be on talking about -- who i think in calling these things out, and this is the goal for me in the book, is that we've all heard these trucks before. but when it comes to applying it to the 2020 field, we you've had more women running than ever before, you've had six different options if you want to do for women, and you voters consistently said that, in the end, there were two white men and then one white man left standing in joe biden at the end of the 2020 field. and i hope that when we look at the things that led us to this point, all these different moments throughout the 2020 cycle, that voters will be primed to look at these gendered stereotypes and sexist tropes and maybe disrupt him before they take root in the minds.

>> but the reason why the people who may have likened amy klobuchar and elizabeth warren -- they all said not electable. i want to read from page 21, you said within the collective exhale of relief and jubilation from biden harris voters, he was also some shocking. because to get his electoral trouncing of trump and become the 46th president of the united states meant that died in biden dash directly through the hopes and historic prospects of the crewmen running the same democratic primary cycle -- more women running at one time than ever before. and the point here is that, if you didn't like one of the women, you had five other. if you don't like to have them, you had for theirs. if you didn't like two of them, you had three others. and yet, in the end, there are a lot of people for whom joe biden was not the first choice but they did believe that he was the one that could beat donald trump. >> yeah, and i was shocked by this, because the title isn't so much ironic because the women in the cycle were not ultimately electable. but i do firmly believe that if

you vote for these candidates, then they could win and will be electable. and that's the funny thing about electability. i'm a reporter first and the same way that you are, i think it's fair that voters want to pick a winner, especially in 2020, we the only thing we heard from democratic voters was -- just beat trump. they wanted to have no error of risk associated with it and some of the candidates themselves, including senator gillibrand said that, still, to elect a woman despite the fact that four of them who are senators who are qualified and competent and valid presidential candidates, to elect a woman still carried an air of risk, never mind the fact that just because donald trump beat one woman once, who is all of these questions about if a woman could be trump. but it forget the fact that he beat 15 man on his path to the republican nomination. men who were in that pipeline as potential people who could rise to the top of that party. and then was walking around wondering if a man could beat another man. of course, that's never the way that this works out. >> there was one woman left standing in the last wound.

and i remember they stay well. because you covered elizabeth warren. you covered all of these candidates. but you covered elizabeth warren very, very closely. and it was a sense that on super tuesday something will change. all this electability conversation we change. switch. she stated and when other people dropped out. you, right on page 223, you quote warren where she says, i announced this morning where i'm spending my campaign for president, warren said. i said this with a deep sense of gratitude for every single person who got in this fight. every single person who tried on a new idea. every single person who just moved a little in their notion of what a president of the united states should look like, and quote. that last thank you sticks in my mind, even, out to those who moved their notion of where the president should look like, even just a little. it was the ultimate answer to electability. on the warren and her campaign never found a number sergeant after matter while she was in the race. r neither day, nor klobuchar, no harris, no gillibrand, no gabbard, nor williamson, i've

got democratic primary voters to imagine what they'd never seen before -- it's a point you just made but i want to add to read this. it's not going to happen until you can imagine it was good happen. we didn't have a black president until somebody voted for black president realize, hey, guess what, you can have a black president. >> yeah, and it sounds so simple but of course it's not. and i think that one of the things that is a bright spot that i found in this book, and the reason that the subtitle is yet -- is because these are narratives and historical point that can and will be disrupted. i firmly believe that. but one of the studies i point to in the book shows is that while the idea of electability, who we give benefit of the doubt to, -- knows if they're actually electable until after the polls close election night. so it's really a question of, who do we believe can actually do? it -- and those narratives and tell people that women win. they can. they can

there's so much i wanted to read from the buck. it is all like that. ali vitali. the other member of the levy club. the capitol hill correspondent and the electable writer buck. why america hasn't put a woman in the white house yet is the subtitle. and total 184 classified documents were found inside boxes taken from donald trump's mar-a-lago estate. more on those latest threat -- heavily redacted affidavit. the velshi banned book club is diving into the book crank. a deeply emotional and real story about addiction. author ellen hopkins is going to join me to discuss. live stay with us, another hour of velshi begins now. it is 9 am in the, east exam in the