point being on a churchgoing day for so many. anyway, it was fabulous. good to see you, my friend. >> appreciate you. >> thank you, you too. ♪ ♪ ♪ a very good at all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york, welcome everyone to alex witt reports. we begin with new reaction to the redacted fbi affidavit used in the unprecedented search warrant executed at mar-a-lago. of, course the home of former president trump. today, we are hearing from republican members of congress and many are invoking the former secretary of state hillary clinton. >> it should be very careful with classified documents, i've had access to documents like that for a long time. i'm incredibly careful. i was, wondering as i was listening to that discussion, if the same things were said when secretary clinton had black humans. when director comey had documents. >> i mean, the hypocrisy of folks in my party that spent

years chanting lock her up about hillary clinton because of some deleted emails or quote unquote wiping a surveyor, they're now out there defending a man who clearly did not take the national security of the united states to heart. i will be up to doj whether that reaches the level of indictment. but this is disgusting, in my mind. >> and a reaction to president biden's promise to cancel some student debt for low, middle income borrowers and to critics who say it doesn't go far enough. >> there are a lot of people hurting announce cider right now, people are getting crushed with inflation, crushed with gas prices, food prices and all the rest. i think a targeted approach right now really does send the wrong message, there's a lot of people out there making 30, 40 grand a year that didn't go to college. they need help as well. >> the criticism is correct, but the answer is not to deny help two people who cannot deal with these horrendous student

debts. the answer is that, maybe just, maybe we want to have a government that works for all working people and not just the people on top. >> some new fears that, if trump of pointed fed chairman jerome powell for the raise interest rates, it could further move the country into recession. >> what he calls a some pay means putting people out of work. shutting down small businesses. covid is still shutting down parts of the economy around the world that we still have supply chain kinks. we still have a war going on in ukraine that drives of the cost of energy. you know what's worse then high prices and a strong economy? high prices and millions of people out of work. i'm very worried that the fed is going to tip this economy into recession. >> well, for the latest now on the mar-a-lago nest, occasion that's go to nbc news white house correspondent monica

alba. >> u.s. intelligence community, conducting a widespread risk it's assessment of the documents recovered by the fbi from donald trump's florida home. evaluating the potential national security risks that could come from disclosure of the highly sensitive information. director of national intelligence, avril haines, telling congress she will spearhead the assessment. closely coordinating with the department of justice to ensure it doesn't interfere with its ongoing criminal investigation into the recovered documents. the, move coming after lawmakers requested the additional review on friday. following the release of the heavily redacted affidavit that authorized the fbi's august search and seizure. the document also revealing that a separate trove of secret and confidential documents were recovered from mr. trump in january. leading the doj to believe there was probable cause to find more documents during their search three weeks ago. house intelligence committee chair adam schiff and oversight committee chair carolyn maloney writing saturday, the doj

affidavit affirms our grave concern that among the documents for that mar-a-lago where those that could endanger human sources. it is critical that the intelligence community move swiftly to assess and, if necessary, to mitigate the damage done. meanwhile, a florida judge granted a preliminary order paving the way for mr. trump's request to appoint a special master to review the evidence recovered from his estate. the former president on saturday, calling the fbi search one of the most egregious assaults on democracy in the history of our country. all this, as his former attorney, alan dershowitz, suggest there may be enough evidence to indict mr. trump. but predicting -- >> trump will not be indicted, in my view, because the evidence doesn't pass what i called the nixon, clinton standard. >> the next hearing for the special master is scheduled for thursday. and the judge was clear, she hasn't made a final decision on the matter. she also asked the justice department to provide under

seal a detailed inventory of everything they seized and how they used the filter team to review the documents. back to you. >> all right, monica alba, thank you for that. joining me right now, congressman ted lieu, democrat from california and member of the judiciary and foreign affairs committees. he's also former member of the u.s. air force judge advocate general corps. that is also known as jag. thanks for being here. first, all let's get to how you interpret the inclination to appoint a special master. is there a political calculation at play in that? do you think it might slow the fbi investigation? >> thank you, alex, for your question. i had a security clearance prior to entering congress and, as a member of, congress i also have security clearance. if i had hundreds of classified documents in my home, i would have been arrested and indicted by now. in terms of a special master being appointed, if that were to happen i wouldn't have any objection to that because a special master is going to find the same thing that the

department of justice found, which is that donald trump had hundreds of documents at mar-a-lago that were labeled confidential, secret, top secret and levels beyond top secret. the highest classification levels. that is a crime if true. >> absolutely. those gift documents you're fearing to. but time wise, does this add another layer? or can be done concurrently with everybody's cumulative eyes on the process? are you worried about delays? >> i think it is a horrible precedent to indict a former president of the united states. the only precedent worth and that is to not indict a former president if he violated the law. so, they've got to do this right, they have to cross all their t's and dot all their eyes and make sure they have an airtight case. i don't mind if they take extra steps to ensure they have an airtight case if they are to indict donald trump. >> gotta say, hadn't put heard it but that way but it is

absolutely perfect. whatever the fbi affidavit, which states that some of the documents trump returned to the national archives appeared to contain national defence information, and the i-? you are a military veteran, so what concerns you the most? >> earlier this year, in february, a federal employee was sent to prison because she took some documents labeled a secret back to her hotel room. so, our country takes classified information very seriously. but donald trump had was far worse. he had documents labeled top secret, which means it could cause exceptionally grave damage to u.s. national security. and he had documents above tops the court that were labeled as ei and special access program level that only very few people could see. and if they were released, it could cause even more damage than thompson grid occupants. so, we are talking about some very serious documents here. and shame on any maga

republicans who are defending donald trump's actions. >> so, what should the director of national intelligence be looking for in its damage assessment? and how do you gauge or whether or not anything has gotten out? whether it's further lost or passed along or somebody lifted it. how can you tell? >> so, one reason that a damage assessment is being conducted by the director of national intelligence is, if these documents had sensitive or highly classified information about human sources, about u.s. intelligence personnel and foreign countries, their lives could now be at risk. we know that more than donald trump saw these documents, because there is surveillance footage of other people dealing with these documents, including also trump's lawyers. hopefully they don't say anything. but we need to do a damage assessment to know if we now have to go through all our human sources and make sure that their lives are protected or that they are brought back

to the united states. i also know that, under the trump administration, there was an alarming loss of life, if u.s. national intelligence human sources. so, this is a very serious matter. >> absolutely. the point you just made about the video surveillance to the new york times report, is that the incentive for asking for further surveillance? they are trying to see who was near the documents, who may have been able to handle the documents. it's not what it's looking for? >> we need to know who had access to these documents, because they were in that secure location. some of these documents if they are marked with a top secret recipe for special access program level have got to courtney very secure control location. only a few people know about what is in those documents. you can just overlying running boxes, in mar-a-lago are different people can just walk in and read those documents. this is a very serious matter. anybody, else honestly, would

have been indicted by. now >> what is interesting is listening to trump defenders, they have constantly shifted the goalposts by first off demanding the release of a search warrant and then the release of an affidavit. now they want sensitive government secrets to be declassified and just put out there in the public. let's take a listen to what some of the van saying about that. >> there was a dispute over these records. they were removed from the white house, they were sensitive records. they are stored in improper and in circular location, but that is not really a revelation. it reminds me of hillary clinton. >> -- redacted means canceled. okay. so they canceled the affidavit. >> when it declassify the documents they actually took from president trump and show the public what they work. >> care to comment on that? clearly the newsmax thinks this is funny. but anything on that? >> john hughes comments are

insane. why he is saying is he would want to top secret documents beyond top secret to appear on the front pages of the new york times, on your show so that i can see is, my neighbor in the russians and the iranians. solely to protect donald trump. this is, cultish un-american treasonous behavior. you cannot just do you classify all these documents and put it into the public domain, simply to prevent donald trump from prosecution. that is a very treasonous argument, any maga republican making it should be ashamed of themselves. >> some trump defenders, which would include kash patel, have raised questions about whether recovered documents were classified or not. but then the affidavit points at the stat you didn't actually use the term classified information, but rather it criminalizes the unlawful retention of, quote, information relating to national defence.

so does de classification even matter? >> with regards to the statutes, that is a very good point you. may secondly, you don't have to have the markings of whether the documents were classified or not. we do know there is a big difference between the hillary clinton case and inspector general who found that the documents were not properly pardoned on her server, that she did not know they were classified. this is a very different case than donald trump. he knew that they were classified, and he intentionally took them. i also know that if the maga republican argument so that he should be declassified, then they have got to ask themselves, why do we want to names and locations and against these of u.s. spies out there in vanity fair? that is an insane argument. >> okay. congressman ted lieu, i'm gonna leave with. that pretty powerful words, great conversation. as always, my friends. thanks very. much it is called the eye, see which stands for the intelligence community. coming up next, the big worry

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you know, i was trying to be measured but i am angry, i'm angry the documents were improperly handled like this. because i can walk you through the scenario with hcs. as a cia officer, our job is to recruit human assets overseas who are willing to turn their backs on their own countries to guarantee our safety, here in america. and our job cia officers is to keep their identities secret. and to keep their identities safe. and make no mystery about it, people either have died or will die as a result of these documents being placed out there. >> that's a pretty damning assessment for mace former cia

agent of the potential damage resulting from donald trump's handling of the documents stored at mar-a-lago. now the intelligence community is pledging to get right to the bottom of it. and illiterate team by nbc news, the director of national intelligence errol haines, former chairs of the intelligence committee says that her office will lead an interview a well-of and documents at mar-a-lago. assessing the potential risks of national security. right now let's bring in nasa, former special agent the counterintelligence division of the fbi. also a senior lecturer at the yale jackson school of global affairs. and harry lippman, a former deputy assistant attorney general former u.s. attorney and host of the talking heads podcast. welcome to. both asha, you first. here what is your reaction to the decision by the intel community to first of all even conduct the damage assessment? why would be important? >> i'm not surprised at all.

i think as tracey just mentioned, she said it very, well it is important because there are potentially lives at stake. and of, course with things like signals intelligence, communications intelligence, they need to figure out which channels could potentially be compromised. i will say a few things which are is that, to the extent of this could've been unauthorized access to these documents, they don't need to necessarily name actual sources. all that someone who has that information needs to do is obsessed with people who reverse engineer where that information could come from. so just to give an example, if we had for example a very high-level human source in the kremlin, and this is by the, way we did have when we found out about the ten illegals who were in the united states. and their intelligence is coming from, say, a conversation this only somebody

in that small circle would know, a foreign adversary would very quickly hone in on that. then that source would be in danger. so the intelligence community needs to look after, really, just go on the assumption that these could have been compromised, and the potential for compromise in the second and third order effects of that and with that we need to do to protect those methods and sources. >> listen, in fact, when that russia national was removed for his or her own and safety, it really did compromise the u.s.'s ability to get the kind of intelligence we are getting for quite awhile there. things going on within the kremlin. here now, could this intelligence review be important in ensuring that the classified materials could be submitted as evidence in a trial if it comes to that? >> the short answer is no, we are on two tracks and we have to do this one separately. the suggestions from some that this is just paperwork is just not a grown-up argument.

as asha says, if trump somehow were rolling grenades under our agents, people would understand the stakes. this aspect of, it the retrieval of the documents and the damage assessment, those are just completely forced moves for the national intelligence and the department of the justice. but if we come to a trial, there may be attempts by the former president to try to say i need classified documents to make my defense. and therefore, keep the trial from going forward. but the doj knows this playbook and knows trump's playbook, and there are going to be ways around it, they are very conscious of it. they sure answer of it is two separate tracks and they will prove the case without that top secret stuff. >> don't you think a lot of the playbook, one of the first thing they do is stall? let's throw everything we can and stall as long as we can. >> not only do they do that, but they're not very creative

about it. their number one attempt, this has been throughout the 20 months, alex, is to say these are executive privilege materials. zero legal basis, it's been rejected everywhere. but that is the one risk. you accept representative liu about the ruling by the judge, have a special master, fine. but if that special master is somehow looking at -- if the judge is saying executive privilege material must be respected, set aside, that would gum up the works in a major way. i don't think she'll go that route, but that is the worry about the order. not that there may be someone on the ground who, to answer your other question, wouldn't really delay things. doj has plenty to do right now. >> okay. >> can i jump in on that point, alex? >> sure. >> i just wanted to point out that the executive privilege argument in this context is really a red herring and completely nonsensical. the point of executive privilege is really to protect

the context of a communication, to say these are close communications with my advisers and you can't look at them or you can't use them against me. the contents of these documents, beyond whether they were national defence information or not, or completely irrelevant. the issue in this case was there unauthorized possession and retention at mar-a-lago. in other, words there's no real need to get into what did this presidential records say or not. their presence there is the crime. so, it's very strange that this principle is being invoked. and i think, like harry said, i think is a reflexive reaction. which is just what they've done it every case. but this context is very different, because it's essentially a stolen property case. >> that is so interesting. again, -- >> what she said! >> yeah, you're both say here. the trump playbook is just, alter everything you can against the wall even if some stuff won't stick. here's what we do know from the affidavit, asha, this question

to you. that the doj was looking up more than one room where these documents could have been stored. some of them in pretty busy areas. again, this is a resort, club, however you want to define it. what kind of evidence could the intelligence community look for to determine whether this information got out? that's something i can't figure out but thankfully i'm not paid to figure that out. how do they know if it's been leaked out? >> they don't. there are ways that they might, you know, surmise that. for example, in our other intelligence collection that we have ongoing, if adversaries or other governments know things that they should not know or are operating on assumptions that they should not have because they are highly kept secrets, that is a connection they can make. but this is what i meant before when i said that the intelligence community almost has to just act on the potentialities of it. the fact that these were laying around, being handled by people, did not have appropriate covers on them to even differentiate

them from other types of materials. in high traffic areas, where there is no lock. i think they just need to look at let's go on the assumption that there was an authorized access. what could happen? what are the risks here, first to human life but also to these other channels of intelligence collection? and what would we need to do to secure them? i think that is how they're going to have to operate. precisely because the game in counterintelligence is never let back adversary know what you know. if the adversary is now, it they're going to try to not let us know that they know it, if that makes sense. it's a bit of a game of shadows right now. >> yeah. taking a look at the wall street journal editorial board, harry, it says of the redacted search warrant affidavit released this week shows that this all boils down to a fight over classified documents. and that it finds that hard to believe it will result in a criminal indictment. now, while they don't defend trump's behavior, it says the fbi justice department didn't

have to resort to a warrant and federal agent search. quote, instead they could have gone to a district court and signed an order for the proper handling of storage of documents. it surely would have been executed if mr. trump then failed to comply, he could have been held in contempt. give me a sense of their analysis. >> you know, it is stomach turning. it's so emitter and unsophisticated, so cavalier about the most serious interests in our national security. as asha said, and everyone knows, peoples lives are at stake, sources and methods are at stake. every important national security breaches paper, by the way. the rosenberg nuclear secrets, that's what this is all about. the notion that it is me or documents is really, not simply cavalier, but kind of despicable, as a suggestion

here, it seems to me. >> can you clear this up for us, asha? donald trump, or any president, for that matter, have a formal security clearance? do they have to go through things or because of the title and domain of their position there they just get access? >> that's right. donald trump did not have to go through the trauma process that i did, for example. to that that is a federal employees who get security clearance to, which is go through a full field background check, if you're getting a t as i see clearance that goes back all the way. it checks your foreign contacts, checks your finances, all these things. he did not have to go through that. the qualifications to be president are laid out the constitution. they are quite minimal. he met those qualifications and then, once he assumed the office of the presidency, he was, by virtue of being the president, entitled to see all of our secrets.

because he is the head of the executive branch. importantly, once he left that office, he lost that. without an extension of that clearance by the current president, which he does not have, he is no longer any authorization to view these materials are keep them in his home. >> absolutely. asha rangappa, harry lippman, great chat. thank you guys so much. with a series of political victories, president biden is on a roll. but does that actually boost democrats up for reelection? and as the white house touts the benefits of forgiving student debt, detractors include some democrats.

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buffalo bills matt arise that is released from the, team effective immediately. this comes days after news emerged that the civil suit is accusing him of gang working a high school seniors off campus party during his time at san diego state university. in a tweet, bills gm brand

indeed said, quote, releasing arise i was the best thing to do. our culture in buffalo is more important than winning football games. the governor of mississippi declared a state of emergency, look at this. the threat of rising water is growing. pro ever in the city of jackson is expected to crest as early as tomorrow morning, a bit about 20 hours earlier than -- thought. low lying areas are being warned to get out, if you live there. members of the columbus education association would decide not to ratify the agreement on that teachers contract. the union reached a deal with the scale on thursday, days after voting to go on strike. november's vote to ratify the contract today, in-person classes will resume for all students tomorrow. get your pencil sharpened, kids. in the meantime, many democrats are calling president biden student loan forgiveness pan a political win, despite republican backlash. this comes as the president is

touting his growing list of accomplishments to bolster democratic candidates ahead of the midterms. and we see gary come back is following the percent for us in delaware. welcome, gary, on the sunday. what's mixed messages are we hearing from lawmakers today about that landmark decision? your forgiving student debt! >> alex, stop me if you have heard this before. you folks in both sides of the aisle saying the way they wouldn't would've been different, we've increased their parties chances in november. the republican side of the aisle has folks who say this is a, latest this is unfair. grabbing a hand at 4 votes. it's something they shouldn't be, doing shouldn't have people going to college paying for those. democrats say, millions and millions of americans could save so much money from. this it is safe in between 10 and 20,000 dollars, per person, with the student loans. then you have something on the far left, the progressives, a

republican say they're gonna get upset either way no matter what happens. why not go cancel all the student debt entirely and just cancel it all? that's what's some folks on the sunday show this morning. >> i just thought it was monumentally unfair. unfair to people who did not go to college, because they did not think they could afford. it i fear to people who pay their loans, back and they are 2 people who got a higher education, knowing that the government didn't make. loans and economics. >> i know it is shocking george, for some republicans, that the government actually on occasion does something to benefit working families and low-income people. i don't hear any of these republicans talking about giving max a massive tax breaks for billionaires. but the answer is not to deny help too people who cannot deal with these horrendous student debt. >> now, looking towards the mid

terms the big question is will this encourage younger people to get out and vote? democrats certainly hope so. nbc polling shows that voters are much more likely to support a candidate who endorses the idea of canceling student debt, and then someone who does not. >> make sense gary grumbach, thank you so much. let's bring in peter baker, msnbc political analyst and chief white house correspondent for the new york times. happy sunday to you, my friend. before we dive into president biden's vaguely, i want to get your reaction to the on sealed moral of the affidavit, i get your biggest takeaways as someone who is covered the trump presidency, as someone who has been tomorrow law go to interview donald trump. o has been>> yes, look. i think that a lot of the other panelists i made a lot of important points. the idea that human sources in particular might be exposed, i think, is one of the most sensational aspects of that affidavit. it's just a level of concern on the part of the government intelligence agencies that move

beyond simply pieces of paper. trump side trying to make it out to be these real lives. my colleague julian barnes supporting the caa saying i noticed in the last year or 2 various stations expressing concern that the number of informants had met with that fates. i know they are not connected with that just shows how concerned the intelligence agencies are when they're human informants or put at risk. we don't have enough information to judge whether that has happened in this case. a lot of the documents, as you are pointing out with the screen, grabs are blacked out. we have all the sort of hinting at. that the other takers that they are specifically talking about obstruction as a possible crime. not just he took the documents or kept the documents weather classified are not classified. but the president of the united states and or his people were intentionally and deliberately obstructing a federal investigation. that is a whole other bag of legal exposure. >> give me a sense of the level of security there a monologue.

oh it is a social venue. there are people who come and go constantly. the amount of security days you get on the property securely, let alone someplace like the former president's office, that ancillary outside of the residential quarters, both places where they believe they found these documents. >> yes, not very hard to get me on the property especially if you happen to know member who will just bring you in for dinner, for hanging out or what have you. it is not secure, like the white house obviously is. our government facility. we win today treat president trump last year, for our book last month. we interviewed twice. it went in for the interview, and there was security outside. check their, i.d. and then said do you have any weapons, we, snow and that was enough. they didn't like the vehicle or anything like that. so it's kind of hit or miss. sometimes it is pretty secure,

parts of the building are secured. by secret service more than. others they don't tend to secure the public areas, to the same degree that they do with the president, the former president. tends to work. a lot of people come in and out of there, there have been instances over the last 4 or 5, years where a sitting president, or people who should have been, there were caught. there and i think that is obviously a concern to the archives and the federal reserve. >> absolutely. let's switch gears and get back to the current, president, biden of. course according to a new poll from a, gallup the persons rating assisted 44%, up 6% from a record low in july. let's keep in mind this poll was conducted before the student loan forgiveness plan was announced. gallup says the increasing biden's job writing is largely buoyed by political independents. how are you interpreting all of this? particularly with the midterms a couple of months away. >> president biden's approval ratings have been low not just because republicans didn't like, him because they never did.

his approval ratings are low because he disappointed his supporters who will particularly -- with some liberals on his own party. because he was not accomplishing enough as far as they were concerned. he did not follow through enough on the campaign promise. now's argument that he has in the last few weeks is that he has a number of successes in congress in terms of, obviously, climate, health care, semiconductor industry, health care for veterans. even points them to, say see, i am delivering. i promise i can make government work, and here are some tangible examples of how i am. so i think that increasing his approval rating obviously reflects a certain degree of his own supporters coming back from him saying, okay, maybe he's making some progress. this is still not a very high number. it is not the number democrats want to see going into the midterm elections. it's still underwater. more people disapproving than approving. what he does is continues to galvanize his own base, coming out with democrats this fall, if they have any chance of holding on to the house.

>> real, quick when you make of the washington reporting the democrats nova narrow path to keeping the house. despite the much more beleaguered look at all of that. maybe, for eight weeks ago. >> look, i think anybody should be cautious about making predictions about what will happen, certainly the republicans election to lose come to the house. historically the president in his first midterm election, his party tends to lose seats and often lose control of at least one house of congress, and that would be the typical thing to expect here especially given that inflation in the sour poll numbers on where the country is heading. but i do think there is an x-factor, here the x-factors the roe v. wade decision to overturn roe v. wade, which seems again to be energizing democrats in the rose were upset about that, and again the president biden seems to be doing a little bit better in a poll, certainly makes the democrats chances a little bit better. does not mean he is going to, win but it is certainly a cause

to see battleground tracker on today, showing that republicans are likely to pick up six fewer seats and they got just a month ago. still enough for, majority the but the momentum for the moment is on the democrat side. >> peter, baker thank you so much. can we talk to you about the disruptor. let's keep that look. at thank. you meanwhile, countdown to blast. of nasa poised to launch the most powerful rocket ever on a journey like no other. that is next. that is next >> today, we're expecting as many as half 1 million spectators descend on the space coast. they're in. florida for this huge rocket launch. the biggest ever for nasa. 8.8 million pounds of thrust, that is more powerful than the southern five rockets that live to the apollo astronauts up to the moon. now, nasa is going back to the moon, the moon base, and then mars. nd the mars

super cool news in case you haven't heard nasa's going back to the man. that is the artemis 1 rocket, on the launch right now in the kennedy space center, less than 24 hours from its maiden voyage. nasa's most powerful rocket yet will take off after half a century, after the faint apollo missions. the artemis mission will send it anchored capsule around the moon and back. it is a major milestone for nasa with the first woman another man on the moon as

early as 2025. msnbc's lindsey reiser is joining me here in the studio. it is huge, it is a first time nasa has gone back in 50 years, tell us more about this. mission >> you mentioned some of the lofty goals, nasa is also trying to build a lunar camp up on the moon in the south pole, and also build an orbiting base camp around the moon. let's go ahead and start with ryan. let's take a look at the rendering about this launch is going to look like. it raised nearly 6 million pounds in stands 32 stories tall. those boosters, each one generates more thrust than 14 commercial jumbo airliners. the sentience consume enough propellant to drain a sorting pool in a mere minutes. an hour to half after the launch the ryan capsule is on a lunar trajectory, and ryan is going to go into distant retrograde around the moon, traveling nearly 1000 times farther than the distance between the international space station and earth. the return is a big task, is a

test for the heat shield. and its ability to protect or ryan for nearly 5000 degrees fahrenheit. then we will see the parachutes deploy at a less than 20 minutes. iran is going to go from a 32 to 0 at slash notice. >> i tell you, that slows down pretty quickly. explain for us the flight path, and what is going to take on the journey there. and also how long this is going to take. >> the mission is up to 42 days, alex. and this is going to be the launch right here. ryan is going to swoop around the earth, and this is about a four-day trip here to the moon. going to be pretty close to the moon, about 60 miles away. and then distant retrograde. this is further than any human has ever gone. and then the return trip back to earth is going to be about another four days or so. so it will stay up, to alex, 42 days. because each of these windows could take four days. who takes. evan that's why there's a range. >> i've heard on the radio that

somebody's been working on this for 20 years. one of the scientific engineers. let's talk about cost. this has to be pretty expensive. >> it. is i'm gonna show you the cost compared to some other programs. u.s. dollars around the time. we have the apollo mission, of course, we know that first put him on the moon. the space shuttle, that get 134 flights added to that. so artemis compared, it does not seem that high. but actually the inspector general says that 93 million are going to burn through that pretty quickly. at some point they will need more allocation for congress. >> absolutely. whether we can hear about china and announcing an exploration themselves, in the space race. >> it is russia who is now going to be working with china for their space station. china, these are all their lofty goals here, alex. they want to become, really, a global space power here. and we also know that our own nasa administrator wanted to watch which one is doing. for example, there is a rover

on the fourth of the moon. we can see with they are doing. china slammed some of those comments. but they also want to build another base camp as well. so we are absolutely in a space race with them. this is our own lock-up, here, for the journey to mars will look like. this a riot, even though it is not, crude alex, this is the step to get to some of the lunar goals that we talked about, and eventually to mars. >> spelled out by all of. this thank you so, much lindsay, for sharing. it pretty exciting. thank you. remember the dire predictions of doom and gloom for democrats? those doomsayers may be returning. that's next. that's next.

new reporting of an unmistakable no shift on democrats as we get closer to the midterm elections. the washington post reports once on think, will democrats now see a narrow path to keeping the house.

according to interviews with candidates, strategist as well as officials, the party is trying to frame contests around abortion rights, republicans on the defensive restrict opposition to the procedure in the wake of the supreme court overturning roe v. wade. joining me now is michael starr hopkins attorney precedent of northern star strategies. susan del percio, republican strategist in msnbc political analyst, and former republican congressman from florida david jolly. also an msnbc political analyst. good to have all three of you on a sunday. so, michael this week we saw the democrat pat ryan unexpectedly win the house special election in the world new york district 19, with a campaign that was centered on abortion. more women have signed up to vote after roe is overturned. like in kansas, where more than 70% of the newly registered voters there are women. do you think that leaning into abortion rights will effectively keep democrats in power? >> i think it is a really good

argument, women's rights, women's autonomy, that is something that at the top of the ballot right now. so when you look at republicans who have, for, year's been saying they want to end woman's right to control their body, well, where the dog caught their tail. and they had to figure what to do. because the polling indicates that just energy in general indicates that women are obsessed. and to be, honest pissed, about. it now we go to the polls, and there is a chance the democrats if not maintain the houston keep the numbers extremely close. that's a problem for him. >> well, look, according to what they, do they're trying to downplay their chances on abortion now. nbc news has reported in some big changes to the -- arizona republican senator blake, masters now softening his tone on abortion, entirely removing references to some tough restrictions. here is one example. language will masters be a 100

pro-life, that has vanished. and instead language calls roe v. wade a bad decision, you pledge of support for a loss that ban late term abortions. why does this flip-flop tell you, susan? >> but he is very scared of this issue. there is no doubt about it. republicans are -- this is a really bad, worst-case scenario for republicans when it came to the issue of abortion. most politicians came in -- with the right to life movement. because those are two different things. politicians were very comfortable with a 100% right to life, with the exception of rape, incest, and life of the. mother this is a very comfortable place for them to be, and we were hoping that the supreme court would have a 15-week ban in their, and that would kind of give enough wiggle room for them to keep operating in that space. because most people are comfortable with 15 weeks, as a cap on the time when you can receive an abortion. now, republicans are back.

they were all of these primaries. it had to take out the most right position. the most extreme position. and that's where democrats had to trump in. you can't make the assumption that all the sudden kansas city is a pro-choice state. because of how they voted on the referendum. what kansas is an anti extremist state. and that is what they should -- the issue of extremism, that democrats can make a difference. >> let's take a look at this ad, from democratic senator mark kelly, who features, in fact, master's own words. here it is. >> blake masters has made his dangerous ideas on abortion easy to understand. >> i think roe v. wade was wrong. it has always been wrong. it's a religious sacrifice to these people, it is demonic. >> for blake, taking our health care freedom from arizona woman is just the beginning. >> i actually think we should

go for. they're >> -- no state can permit abortion. >> you make it illegal and punish the doctors. >> blake masters is too dangerous for arizona. >> so, david in his own words, masters thinks that abortion is demonic and want to use to punish doctors. i was going to play with arizona voters? >> not. well and i think what susan did you defining the difference between the pro-life movement and the politicians approaches is really an important insight. what we are seeing from blake masters is that this is not just a candidate who is highlighting more moderate themes now that he is in the original election. this is a complete abandonment of his previous political narrative, which speaks to what we would give to us another blake masters. sticking on the theme here a little bit that susan brought up, i do think what we saw coming out of kansas, and i do think kansas was the exception point of four analysts -- over the last 40 years when you've just kind of naively

categorized yourselves as pro-life or pro-choice, that is not the test in november. the test really is around roe. so when the republican parties are generally a pro-life party, we naturally we said we had to get rid of roe. we find the desolate of political heart. because the country actually supports roe regardless of how you feel about, well this really reflects in the pro-life pro-choice things. >> very tragically island of. time for that we'll have you back to talk about is happening in texas relative to. this michigan as, well there are a lot of places with topic this around the country. thank you nonetheless for this particular conversation. coming up next, donald trump maybe celebrating a georgia's decision to consider a special master in the mar-a-lago case. but how could they benefit him? about that risk assessment of the recovered classified documents, a former cia chief of counterterrorism will spell out how investigators will determine if donald trump has put america in great danger. reat danger.

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