simone. we are kicking things off with new details from an unsealed list of what the fbi seized from mar-a-lago. including 10,000 u.s. government documents, photographs without classification markets. meanwhile, a federal judge is still deciding whether she will appoint a special mask as the former presidents team has requested. plus, can you imagine not having clean water to drink, or even be the wait for six days? that is a reality jackson mississippi residents are living in. the president, for one of the largest -- in the country, jackson state university will be joining us today to tell us how his students are navigating this crisis. we also need to talk about president biden's warning on the threat to our democracy. and what history tells us about how this situation in america could play out.

i am simone sanders thompson, and i have something to say. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> we finally have new details about documents the fbi seized at mar-a-lago earlier last month. as part of an investigation into donald trump's potential violations of the espionage act and the presidential records act. okay, here is a refresher. trump railed against the fbi's execution of the legally issued search warrant, and filed for the appointment of what is called a special master which would examine the documents for attorney-client privilege information. but here is the thing, the justice department already did that! so judge arlene cannon who is considering the request for a special master, well, on thursday she demanded in a hearing that the fbi's property

would seek the unsealed. we now know the fbi found 18 documents marked top secret, 54 documents marked secret, 31 documents marked confidential, 48 empty folders with classified banners, and more than 10,000 unclassified artifacts. i am talking about documents including photos, articles, clothing, even gifts, and books. that is in addition to the more than 300 classified documents recovered from mar-a-lago before the fbi executed the search warrant on august 8th. so joining me now to discuss it all is our legal panel, charlie savage is here. he is an msnbc contributor and washington correspondent for the new york times. and joyce vance is also back, she is an msnbc legal analyst and former u.s. attorney. welcome to you both. charlie, i want to start with you, because the justice department said in its filing the judge can in that donald trump's request was, quote, is unnecessary and would significantly harm important governmental interests,

including national security interests. i am very interested in your take on this, could a special master actually be harmful to the investigation, and the government's interests? >> it depends how broad the mandate that special master had, and whether the judge stop the government from doing what it is doing wally special master did his or her work. if they stop the government from doing what they are doing, i think the justice department would immediately appeal. the government is not just looking at these documents for the purpose of this criminal investigation into the mishandling of documents of national security secrets, obstruction, and concealment of government-owned records, it is also separately looking at it to conduct a risk assessment of the damage to national security that would ensue, if any of this information has been compromised, which they do not know, was kind of sitting in an insecure way at mar-a-lago. and it is further doing an

assessment of why the classification status of this record actually is. trump has claimed, improbably, that he had a standing order to declassify everything. so they are going to look at that, they're going to look at what evidence there is, they're going to try to understand it not just for the documents that were marked as classified, but for the 11,000 plus other government-owned records they took out that did not have classification markings. so any of those efforts could be disrupted. >> any of them. okay. so joyce, even bill barr, okay the former attorney general under donald trump, even he says that you do not need a special master in this case. the justice department says they already did this work. they did it, they waited out the stuff it is fine. where do you think judge can and should come down on this issue? >> legally, there is no question of where she should come down. special master's are used in cases where attorneys offices

are searched. of course, in an attorney's office, you would expect to find a lot of attorney client privileged material. some of it perhaps relating to the investigation that is underway. but a great deal of it belonging to third parties who simply aren't involved. so the use of an outside special master to preserve the privilege in those cases makes a lot of sense, and it is, i don't want to say frequently simone, but it is done when it is necessary. this is not that situation. this is not an attorney's office. there is every indication that the filter team has done a good job of preserving a very limited quantity of attorney-client privilege material that was in the 45 office, there is no evidence that doj has handled this other than with the utmost integrity. and so if judge cannon looks at both the legal basis for doing this, and the factual circumstances, she will not order a special master in this case. but she has already indicated that that maybe where she is headed. that feels more like a judgment

trying to split the baby and make everyone happy than it feels like one that is grounded in the law and the fact. >> all right, i feel like i watch a lot of television, and re-lot of articles, and this is the first i have heard that the special master is more appropriate in a case where an attorney's office is searched. thank you for making that make sense. maybe then you could shed some light on something else for me because it is august 30th filing the justice department said let me get this down for you not classified documents were likely concealed, and removed before the fbi could retrieve them. now, we do know that dozens of empty folders of classified markings were found in the august search. that was made clear from what the judge asked for on thursday. how exactly what the justice department go about proving the concealed and removal of these documents? how can they prove what they said? >> so, if doj has already said that and put it forward, and pleadings, and presumably more

detail in the search warrant, they likely already have that information together. and some of it could come from individuals who were involved and who saw this process ongoing. we do not know details, and it could be dangerous to speculate. but something that has caught my attention is this recently unsealed information from the district of columbia, and when you put everything that we have now seen together, it sounds like in june, when doj officials were at mar-a-lago, they were able to physically observe a large number of boxes and storage that they believed could contain classified material, and needed to be searched. but when they executed the search warrant, there were about 15 or 20 fewer boxes than they had expected president. so whether that gives rise to the inference that something has been moved, or whether that simply affect that would require some more detail to explain it, and is a knock u.s., and not important we do not know. but doj will hunt down all of the details.

i think what everyone is discussing is that there should be some form of official record keeping regarding what trump pertained, and what he returned and hopefully doj will be able to match that with empty folders. ideally, they will find the information that belongs in those folders elsewhere at mar-a-lago. otherwise, this becomes an all hands on deck sort of exercise. s an all >> now charlie, i do believe it matters that so many classified documents are being held at mar-a-lago. it was crazy for me to see those photos earlier that week. there are laws in place that make taking, or the concealment of government records a crime regardless of the national security status. so, how should not inform the way we discuss the thousands of documents without classification markings that were found at mar-a-lago? the photos, the pictures, the clothing? >> that is right. even the unclassified stuff that trump had did not belong

to him. it belong to the united states government. should have been deposited with the national archives when he left office, and the national archives was trying to get it back starting may of 2001. and then at one point was told you could come pick up the stuff in january, and they took out 15 boxes. but now, we learn 11,000 more documents were not given. and i think that underscores part of the predicate for saying that there was evidence of obstruction at the -- at mar-a-lago, which we saw in the search warrant affidavit and application. because the effort by the national archives to do its job, to retrieve government property that did not belong at mar-a-lago, did not belong to mr. trump was thwarted, and perhaps through deception if they were told they were getting everything in january. >> yes. these are not his documents. there is a photo i wanted to take out of my office when i

worked at the white house, and they told me it did not belong to me, and it needs to stay put. let's move to january 6th. because donald trump said something this week that i thought was very jarring, and it is not getting as much attention. but he said this about potential pardons for capitol rioters. he is talking about some people that he says he met with, and that he is even financially supporting. take a listen to this. >> so i met with a number of -- i meant with financially supporting people that are incredible. it is a disgrace what they have done to them. what they have done to these people it is disgraceful. i will tell you, i will look very, very favorably about full pardons, if i decide to run and if i win, i will be looking very, very strongly about pardons. full pardons. >> a man. >> the former president went on to say that he would accompany those pardons with an apology to many of the capital rioters

as well. joyce, what is your response to hearing this? >> certainly he is not a president who supports law enforcement, given that he plans on pardoning people who violently confronted, and attacked folks in law enforcement who were defending the capitol that day. but look, simone, this is just standard fare for trump. he is back to dangling pardons in an effort to keep people on his side. and perhaps, the most dangerous part of what is going on here is something we really don't talk about enough, but it is trump's ongoing effort to delegitimized law enforcement. his effort to convince his base, and i am sure in his mind, other people, that the justice department is corrupt. that the fbi is acting against him, out of political enemies. and of course, that sets up as this investigation moves forward, the theme that he will continue to trot out. and it is very dangerous moment in this country where you have it powerful figure who has a

megaphone strapped to his mouth every time he opens up trying to convince people that they cannot trust our criminal justice system. because we rely on that system day in and day out to keep our communities safe, to make sure that people are held accountable, and i have a former president delegitimizing that to help himself out down the road is really a dangerous place for this country to be. >> absolutely. the system is not perfect, it definitely has flaws, but donald trump is doing something unprecedented. charlie savage, joyce vance, thank you both very much. coming up on simone, the water crisis in mississippi is growing more dire by the minute. the president of the hbcu jackson state university will join me live to discuss, plus the consequential governor's race down in florida. i will talk to democratic nominee for governor, that person looking to unseat the tyrant of tyler has the, i am talking about charlie crist. we are chatting later in the show. but first, my colleague jessica layton with today's other top

news stories, hey jessica. >> hi simone, thank you. stories we are watching this hour, a terrifying situation in mississippi after a man stole a plane and threatened to deliberately crash it into a walmart. the local sheriff's office they're saying the man is in custody, he has been identified as an aviation employee, and is now facing criminal charges. nasa, scrubbing the second attempt to launch the artemis moon rocket, now delayed another time because of a hydrogen leak. the launch was scheduled for today at 2:17 pm, no word yet on when the next attempt will take place. but we are told nasa is eyeing possibly monday, or tuesday next week. and tennis legend, serena williams, likely wrapping up her decades long stellar career after losing an incredible third round match at the u.s. open last night. the 23-time grand slam champion expected to retire later this year. more simone coming up after the break. ♪ ♪ ♪

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roulette that you do not know if you are going to wake up with water you don't know if you got water, you don't know what condition the water isn't. this can't be happening in the land of plenty. >> there was a disaster happening in mississippi. a city that is near and dear to my heart, my father grew up only a couple hours away. and i have been to mississippi more times than i can count. and right now, more than 150,000 people in jackson, still do not have clean drinking water. if there is water coming out of their faucets, it is probably muddy or brown they cannot drink it or cook with it and if they shower and it they are being told not to open their mouths. nbc's own morgan chesky has been talking to some residents who are still paying water bills, bills for the water they can't even use! but this is not a new issue. more than 80% in the population

in jackson mississippi's black and they have been left to languish for years wealthy white suburbs surrounding the city typically do not experience the same problems. like right now, because those surrounding cities, they currently have water while jackson does not. thomas hudson is the president of jackson state university, and jackson native. president hudson thank you for being here. i want to start by talking about you, and the students. how are you handling this, our classes in session do you have water on your campus? >> thank you so much simone, for allowing me to be here and allowing us this platform. right now we are hosting virtual classes at jackson state university. unfortunately that has become a necessity due to the low water pressure on campus and in fact just a couple of weeks ago we had to delay our move in for our new, and incoming students, due to low water pressure on campus. so this has unfortunately been

reoccurring issues over the last couple of years. we are offering virtual instruction, we do have some water pressure on campus, it is fluctuating depending on the building, on the floor for our students who are on campus, we are providing bottled water which we typically keep a healthy amount on hand because of the frequent boil water notices. and that is allowed us to continue our services as well uninterrupted. we do have portable showers, we are providing portable restrooms, of course, to alleviate the issues when we have a lower water pressure. it is having an impact it is having an impact on our students, it is having an impact on our learning, when you cannot meet those most basic of needs when you are talking about water pressure. >> you know, president hudson, i think a lot of people are asking how could this be happening in the most populated city in the state? but you just laid out how this is, there are things that lit up to this. can you just illuminate that

for folks at home who may not understand the history of this water issue in jackson? >> certainly. i am a lifelong resident of the city of jackson. we have had a number of reoccurring issues. they used to occur around any disaster when you had a hard freeze, expanding of pipes, different things that would normally cause a drop in water pressure. but recently, we have been dealing with more maintenance related issues that are not water related. you know, lines failing, pumps failing, unfortunately it leads to lower pressure in different parts of the city. jackson state is highly affective, we are in an aging part of the city, the infrastructure surrounding jackson is a bit older. so we do get affected unfortunately, more than most areas must relates to that low water pressure. and again, it has been a reoccurring thing over and over. >> we know that president biden he has approved an emergency declaration, he has asked governor reeves of mississippi

to act quickly. what do you need from the government right now, and then what do you think you need to stop this from happening again? >> first of all, you know we are fortunate that we are getting great support from our local, federal and state officials as it relates to doing all of this necessary that brings more water pressure onto our campus, and throughout the city. so, we are thankful for the support of the governor, we are support for the mayor, and we are certainly thankful for the support of president biden, and our own congressman, congressman benny thompson, who has been instrumental in personally making sure we have the resources that we need. with that being said, we have to look at what is the long term fix? again, these things are reoccurring. and we want that assurance that this will not continue to happen. and for students who are freshman, now they want to know that this will not be a thing over the next four years. that is where the focus has to come. we are getting the services we need on the ground right now but the focus has to be on that

long term fix. how do we move paths this, and really fix this issue? >> are you afraid that students will leave campus, the school altogether, or stop in rolling at joshua because of this issue? >> it is a concern. jackson state has it is a wonderful school we have a wonderful brand we provide a high quality education at an affordable price. it is a wonderful place to receive your education. but it is an unfortunate reality that some of these infrastructural issues that we cannot control will, in fact, impact our enrollment. it will cause students to look in other spaces. again, we have been very fortunate, we have had a major increase in the number of first year students who have come to jackson state this year. we are thankful for those, and those students have been very resilient. we are looking to do the things to mitigate these issues in the future so that they will not have that negative effect on the university. >> before we go, i quickly want to ask about this gap emergency fund that the university has.

could it help students in situations like this? >> yeah. so we started the emergency fund for situations where those immediate situations, it could help with tuition balances, you know, it could be when a student has an immediate issue that needs short term funding, and for situations like this where we are trying to help our students get through this time. again, we are providing services on the ground, but there is such a need, so we do have a gap emergency fund which you can find on our website. w w w dot jsu the dot edu. it is a resource we are looking to provide our students to make these short term needs. >> president thomas hudson, thank you for your time. the people of jackson are resilient, they should not have to be. we appreciate what you are doing. >> thank you so much for having me. >> absolutely. ahead, there are some signs that the expected red wave, you

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nominee for governor charlie chris in just a second. but i want to take you to flashback three months ago, okay? you might have heard right away whenever someone talked about the midterms. but you are definitely not hearing that phrase a lot anymore. democrat, mary petula just won a victory to become alaska's representative. she defeated trump favorite sarah palin and a state the former president when easily in 2020, and when sarah palin was the governor. after a string of legislative victories, president biden's approval rating is now back to 40% according to a new poll. for now, democrats seem to have the momentum. but there is less than ten weeks to go until the midterms, and anything can happen, y'all. joining me now to discuss is an all-star panel, a reporter for the washington post, and soon

to be white house bureau chief, i might add, she is a democratic strategist and david jolly is here, he is a former republican congressman from florida. i want to start with you, because not including alaska, the cook political report moved four other seats and to more favorable territory for democrats. right now it looks like democrats have the momentum. but is it enough to make a difference in toss-up states like virginia or arizona, for example? >> it definitely is. i am so glad you bring this point up because we do have to look at those states and the demographics that exist there. for democrats, the key is to ensure that they get the same voters out that they got out in 2020. treating this as though it is another presidential election. being that those demographics, those people of color, the younger voters, they have to understand the importance of this election cycle. and midterms, historically, especially for democrats are typically lower turnouts. but i think that because of the sideswiped that the republicans have taken when it comes to

reproductive rights, when it comes to anti-lgbt laws that are being passed in various states across the country there has been excitement among democrats. and i think don't think it is going to go away too soon. >> you know david, speaking of that excitement, there is a political article talking about abortion in down ballot races, particularly in north carolina. and it reads in part, democrats on the ground are organizing power and leading into abortion in conversations [inaudible] political environment in their direction. it seems as though the fall of row is going to get my democratic friends power on the ground to affect, not just these national races, but state races, as well. >> it absolutely will. they are calling it online, row ember. that might be what we are about to see. you know, elections are typically persuasion -- you are trying to bring voters owner. democrats, the cycle might have the opportunity to do both.

their voters are now expressing a higher intensity level. but you also have the opportunity to bring over persuadable independents and this affected republicans, mainstream republicans. so you are seeing a buffer for democrats three, four, five, maybe six points and most races. that could be enough for democrats to defy history in november. >> it could. the economy is a part of this, as well. republicans love to say the economy is the most important thing, and it seems like to meet president biden is delivering. there was a strong economic report that came out this week, over 3000 jobs were added, labor secretary martin walsh, 300, 000, pardon me, not just three, 300,000. the thousand december 10th here. labor secretary was are doing victory laps explaining these numbers just this week. i want to play for you something he said on msnbc, take a listen. >> for the last six months, you know, i have been getting questions, and we have been hearing reports about inflation, and about heading towards a

recession, and when you look at the other side of the coin, we have 11 million job openings in the united states, we have five to 6 million people eligible for those job openings. we just don't have enough workers. >> how are democrats going to own this issue? what are you hearing in these reporting streaks? >> a couple of months ago, democrats were on defense over the economy. you have a lot of people talking about a recession that was on the horizon. you had some growth numbers that did not look so great. the two quarters of negative growth people were saying were just on the verge of a recession, we are going to be losing all of these jobs. but we have seen month after month, consistent job growth. and democrats are now going into november, essentially saying, we are delivering. we passed the american rescue plan, we have put all of this effort into making sure that people could get to work, looking at all of the job openings that are out there in the economy, and also looking at the fact that we have continued to add a high number of jobs every month, and there is no sign even though the fed is doing what it is going to do, there is no sign that the job growth is stopping. so it does appear that democrats are going to be

talking about jobs in the economy, in their legislative wins for the next few months as well. >> the fed will do what it is going to do, we don't necessarily know what that is. now, among democrats, there is something i mentioned. and earlier, the poll says that most americans agree with the president student loan decision. that obviously is something that was in the news, it breaks down along party lines as you would expect, 88% of democrats approve, 81% of republicans disapprove. is that a number that indicates that this is an issue that will get people to the polls? >> i believe it is, some on. we have to be real about this. student debt, student loan debt in particular is one of the fastest-growing expenditures that this nation has ever seen. the multi trillions of dollars and student loan debt this country currently holds is something that we will not be able to rise above, unless there is federal action, and federal response. we also know that black women, and black student debt in particular, black women's

student debt is the highest among any of these groups. in large part, because of the lack of familial wealth, the lack of historical wealth, but also because black women particularly, once they graduate, even with a degree in hand, -- they are at the intersection of both racial disparities, as well as gender inequality when it comes to this paid gap. it is very important that we recognize that. but again, there are so many people across this country, particularly those not only younger americans, but many people who are adults who took out student loans for their kids, and are still paying back their own student loan debt who this essentially exists. >> it is an issue. we could do this all day, but before i go, you know, this is a moment to me, it seems like a five alarm fire. but when i open up the newspapers every day, it does not feel that way in what i am reading all the time. what are the reporters saying to one another about this? >> there is a lot going on. i mean, you have got the former president who is having his home rated by the fbi because he may have been involved in

crimes, you have got different state legislators that are rolling back voting rights, you have got things happening when it comes to privacy and personal rights of people, so there is a lot going on, there is a lot to cover, and obviously you have president biden going out there trying to ring the alarm and trying to make sure that people know there is a lot at stake in this upcoming election. not only in 2022, but also in 2024. so there is a lot to cover, there is a lot that i want to come to the stakes of the democracy that we all live, in that we all have to defend. but, you know, it is hard to keep up with everything, it is hard to make sure we are covering everything appropriately. but we are doing our best as reporters to make sure that we are making sure people are focused on what is happening, not only at the federal level, but also in states. because a lot of the rights that are being rolled back or in the states. so there is a lot at stake in november, we are trying to make sure that people know about as much of that is possible. >> spoken like a true future white house chief. thank you all very much, i look forward to chatting with you all again very soon. ahead, president joe biden's dark warning for american

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>> there is a consequential governor's race on the horizon, and the sunshine state y'all. republican incumbent ron desantis enjoy superstars status within the republican party nationwide for his eagerness to exploit some of the most pressing issues facing americans today. his democratic opponent, and former republican governor of florida, congressman charlie chris, resigned from the house just days ago and is warning floridians that if they do not stop desantis at the state level, it could be on a national ticket as early as 2024. the current governor gubernatorial -- he joins me now to talk about his plans. welcome to you, congressman. let's get right into it okay?

i want to look at the facts. the facts are, there are more republicans registered than democrats in florida. governor desantis is immensely popular within the republican party and he has out fundraised to buy millions of dollars. tell us, what is your path to victory, and what would a desantis win mean for the nation? >> the path to victory is common sense and doing the right thing. it is bringing together a solid democratic vote unified which it is. and i am confident we are going to get that and i will tell you why. every day not a day goes by that a republican does not come up to me and say i am a republican and i am voting for you, charlie. because this guy's too extreme. i mean he has taken away a woman's right to choose which is unconscionable. he signed a law in fact that said you have a 15-week period, but there is no exception to rape, or incest in this law.

it is barbaric! it is unconscionable! he is making it more difficult for african americans and my state to vote, not having draw boxes in minority communities throughout the state and he has redlined out to black congressional district, one held by north florida, and val demings will be our next u.s. senator in central florida. but this is the kind of things he is doing. he is banning books! i mean it is unbelievable what he is doing in florida. floridians do not like it. they want a better government, they deserve better government, they deserve a governor that has a heart, and compassion and doesn't beat up on lgbtq kids, children. it is amazing what is happening here. we have a message that is right, i am for actual freedom, you know he says he is for freedom, but he is taking everybody's freedoms away. women, african americans, lgbtq, you name it. senior citizens! my 90-year-old father, my 87 year old mother loved to vote

by mail. he has made that more difficult in the state. he is anti-democracy, it is shocking. >> you know congressman i am sorry, you make this point about freedom which i find very interesting, because this is a point that pat ryan that now congressman elected by new york made in his race. it spoke to a wide swath of voters. i want to ask about your opportunity then, to have this conversation with the governor in a debate. governor desantis he recently declined an invitation to participate and what is florida's longest running debate series it is called the for you vote. he did reportedly agreed to another debate on october 12th. you said that governor desantis declining was the behavior of a want to be dictator. could you elaborate on that point, and why particularly is that before you vote debate important? >> it is the most widely viewed debate in florida. as you said, it has a 20-year history. it is extremely credible.

it has conservative sponsorship, it has moderate sponsorship, it is the debate of any gubernatorial race in florida. and you know i did it myself, several times. it is the right thing to do. he wants to go on sinclair tv which is one of the most conservative, it is almost like fox junior, if you will. i think they have five stations in the state, and you know we are in front of 22 million people, he does not want to see people in this debate. if you go on the one that has been traditional for 20 years it is streaming live, it is on you know 22 stations or so throughout the state of florida, it is on radio, it is on npr, he does not want the exposure of that debate, because he does not want to answer questions. and he is afraid to debate me. and i understand why, because he is on the wrong side of history on all of these issues. a woman's right to choose, voting rights, minority rights, public education, you know each and every one of these things are going to be on the ballot

this fall. and the governor does not want anyone to see that debate, because he knows that he is wrong, because he is appealing to the republican right to get the republican nomination for president in 2024, he has forgotten florida 22. >> congressman crist, i heard to mention a woman's right to make decisions about her own body to numerous times. it strikes me for the democratic primary, that was something that your opponent, nikki freed, she criticize you on. you were once a republican yourself, do the editorial board, they had a whole opinion about that earlier this week, do you think that your stance on abortion, your evolving stance, that is something that voters can identify with? what are you hearing from them? >> they want me to be elected,

because they want to protect that right to choose. listen, i am the only candidate in this race who has been governor before, even as a republican, simone. you are correct about that. i vetoed an anti-abortion bill. i have 100 percent rating from planned parenthood on this issue. i have been endorsed by people who really hold this issue near and dear, the former president of planned parenthood of florida endorsed me because of this issue. -- i stand on them, and this contrast with the governor, look what happened in kansas. look what happened in new york, as you mentioned. look what happened with palin, they are all going down on roe v. wade. there has never been a stronger proponent of the woman's right to choose in florida than charlie crist, and ron desantis is horrific on this issue. he wants to ban abortion, 100%! >> all right congressman chris, i can tell you if anyone

wondered where you stand on choice, i think that message is loud and clear, sir. thank you for your time today. >> thank you for years. the facts speak for themselves. >> absolutely. still ahead, biden's fiery speech flashing the warning signs on the state of american democracy. i will have a special conversation with presidential historian michael beschloss, do not miss this, steele. s, steele. st 2 years have been hard on everyone. and teens are no exception. but pfizer has some welcome news for parents. now there is an fda-approved vaccine for 12 to 15 year-olds to help protect against covid-19, with protection against severe illness, too. over 9 million 12 to 15 year-olds have received it. you shouldn't get the vaccine if you've had an allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients. serious allergic reactions can happen. rare cases of inflammation of the heart muscle and outer lining have been reported. people with weakened immune systems may have lower response to the vaccine.

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hall, the birthplace of american democracy, president joe biden issued a dire warning against the forces threatening to tear that democracy apart. take a listen. >> democracy cannot survive when one side believes there are only two outcomes to an election. either they win, or they or cheated. and that is where the maga republicans are today. they do not understand what every patriotic american knows. you cannot love your country only when you win. >> the president has long been sounding this alarm, but what will it take to wake up people who would rather tune it out? joining me to discuss his presidential historian, and host of fireside history on peacock, michael beschloss. welcome to you michael. you are just a perfect person to have this conversation with. so let's dive in. the president compared this

current moment to other monumental struggles the nation has faced. i want to play for folks what he said the other night. >> the flame of liberty that was lit here and independents all, a flame that lit our way through abolition the civil war suffrage the great depression world war, civil rights, that still burns. but first we must be honest with each other, and with ourselves. too much of what is happening in our country today is not normal. donald trump and the maga republicans represent and extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic. >> michael, you have made these comparisons in the past as well. how do you see this ending? >> i think the point the

president made is white. you know the president very well, you know he knows a lot more about history than i think people realize. and one conversation that i was with him in not last month with other historians, i was amazed he knew a lot about john j's treaty of the mid-17 90s, which i wish every american knew about. but most non-historians don't. this is someone who sees the presidency and historical terms. and what he talked about the other night was the fact that we go through big crises. our democracy was badly endanger in a it in 60 before the civil war, 1940 just before world war ii, the point he was making in the clip you just showed, simone, you know this very well, this is someone who understands that with history shows you is that we all have to be optimists. in american history, we go through crises, but our system prevails in the end.

>> hope is what i heard from the president the other night. it is a thing with hope that i just heard from you just now. there are some people, though, michael, they do not hear hope and what the president said to the point that before he loaded up marine one the other day, he was asked whether he considers all trump supporters to be maga republicans. and the president essentially said, no, i am talking about people who are participating in this threat to our democracy. people who are talking about violence. what do you think about this parsing of the maga republicans, versus republicans. because there are folks, notably conservative who have been critically of that. >> we are going through this turbulent time. and this is what presidents do. abraham lincoln in 1860, as you know well, as a very good history department rumor has it. in 1860, lincoln was two years

after giving the house divided speech. the country cannot survive half slave, and half free. franklin roosevelt in the 1930s denounced literally fascists, and he named names, and he said i am campaigning of against the forces of greed and selfishness. if you have got a big threat to democracy, and a president is not fears in defending it, and standing up to those forces who might want to take it away, i think we are seeing those forces right now, we have got to fight for them, that is what it significant president does. >> michael beschloss, we have more we need to discuss. so i am going to see if you can come back again tomorrow okay? >> i would love nothing better. >> all right, thank you very much. and thank you all for watching simone on this saturday. i am simone sanders, you can catch me here weekends, at 4 pm eastern, and anytime over on

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