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storytelling, about how we tell the story of our country's past. why do we want to believe one version and not another? maybe because it makes us feel

safe at night. there is one episode of america's history that is told very differently, depending on who you are and where you live. it is the story of our civil war and what came after. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> the hot winds of war blew across the land. made of it, a country divided. friend turned into foe. brother fought against brother. it was such a long and drawn out struggle. and the feeling on both sides was so intense. >> we're all just romantics, lost in contemporary times you

might say. every one of us feels like we were born 125 years too late. >> to introduce myself, my name is rachel boynton. this is nelson walker. we are independent documentary filmmakers. we're making a film about how we tell the story of the civil war. we're filming in different schools all over virginia and we're going to place this with a deep connection to this history. >> what made you choose the civil war and reconstruction? >> well, you know, america is kind of like a big family that tore itself apart during the civil war. and in order to make peace, we told ourselves a certain story about it.

and for a long time, we had trouble telling the difference between that story and the truth. >> you can ask me anything you want. >> what did you want to do when you were little? and you have a backup for that if you couldn't get that? >> when i was really little, i wanted to be superman. when i got a little bit older, i wanted to be an anthropologist. do you know what an anthropologist is? somebody who goes around the world and studies the ways other people live. >> like this? >> kind of like this. >> people are having to come to grips with the civil war, and enslavement, which are sort of the founding bases of the country. >> our country is like a really old house that you may not want to go into that basement, but if you really don't go into that basement, it's at your own peril. whatever you're ignoring will be there to be reckoned with until you reckon with it.

>> these voices were all happening on the eve of the civil war. i'm interested in what you think about it, i'm interested in who is saying this. and i'm also gonna give you the secession documents from south carolina. >> where is he from? what's he about? who is he? >> he's a philadelphia congressman, i believe. >> no, ohio. >> i think he's from ohio. >> so he delivers this, when?

when is this written, because that's one of the questions that i ask? >> december 27, 1860. >> exactly. and what does he basically say? >> he doesn't want secession because he knows if there is the secession, there will be a huge war. >> people will know this war with their own eyes. they will, you know, really experience war amongst ourselves. he sounds scary, doesn't he? >> yeah. >> i think he probably was. >> what stood out to you in the arguments? >> so our article was presented by alexander stevens in atlanta, georgia. and not once does he talk about slavery, property, and what the war is really about, what they're really fighting for. >> other voices? >> yeah. i noticed there seems to be a common idea that the civil war was totally about slavery.

i'm gonna disagree with that. the south did want to leave the union, because of slavery, but the issue of the civil war was keeping the south in the union. so slavery isn't like, the entire issue. >> pushback? comments? >> we're gonna continue tomorrow. we have class tomorrow. you are a thinker. that is for sure. the wedge is this labor issue, right? i think we're agreed on that. it's just the way of describing it. good job. go, go, go. >> you're spending a lot of time telling the story of the civil war and reconstruction, in your 8th grade class, why? >> because i think we have not adequately, you know, understood who we are as a nation. there's so much of this history that has been way too difficult for this country to look at. the reason it's important to understand this history is because we carry it within us. these things need to be unpacked and looked at, and talked about, and we need to decide what we think about them now. it is challenging, but it's where the juice is. [laughs]

>> we call it the war between the states here. we don't call it the civil war. >> why is it important to call it the war between the states? >> because it wasn't a civil war. >> the war of northern aggression, the north came down here and invaded us. we didn't go up there. >> my grandmother was saying they had to had the food in the chimney because of soldiers who came in would take everything they had. they take all their livestock, any food that was in the house, and it was terrible. the war took place in our backyard, for the people up north, the war was a distant thing. >> we're both members of the local sons of confederate veterans, and we are responsible for taking care of that cemetery. >> but our generation is that, there's not gonna be anybody around to take care of it.

>> or to promote the true history of the 1860 - 1865 time. >> this class that i'm filming, the teacher is teaching the cause of the war on slavery. >> oh, really? >> and so, does that offend you? i mean, can you explain to me why. >> yes, because it's not true. you're telling stories that are untrue about my ancestors, about my family, about my country. >> and tell me what's the untrue thing is? >> slavery. they are not telling the whole story. slavery was one of the reasons, but for that professor to say that economics had nothing to do with that war is totally false. >> i would have fought for the south, you know why? it had nothing to do with political reason. because my home was being invaded. >> the confederacy lost this war big-time. no americans have ever lost a war quite like the confederacy

lost this war. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> white southerners are going to need to process what the meaning of that whole collapse of their society really is. and their explanation of their defeat becomes a narrative. it becomes a memory. it becomes the lost cause tradition. and the lost cause tradition was this argument that the confederacy had really fought for noble aims. the war wasn't really entirely about slavery. it was about defending their homelands. their families, their women, that slavery was not the great issue. that if it had left to them,

they would have handled slavery overtime, and maybe even gotten rid of it themselves, they said, which is nonsense. there were alternative textbooks eventually published in the south. and it wasn't just textbooks they were trying to control, it was the stories being widely told in the public arena. and they had a tremendous influence. so, what is at stake in the memory of the american civil war, is who gets to control this narrative, the story. “shoot it?” suggests the scientists. so they shoot it. hmm... back to the miro board. dave says “feed it?” and dave feeds it. just then our hero has a breakthrough. "shoot it, camera, shoot a movie!" and so our humble team saves the day by working together. on miro.

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microphone. do you have any questions for me? >> i have one. forgot what it was. do you consider yourself a radical person? >> am i a radical person? no. i'm not a radical person. i think i'm someone who questions things. i'm questioning the stories we tell. like, in your class, the story about slavery, right? they tell us something about why we are so divided.

do you see us living in a divided country? >> every day. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> i am a member of the holmes county center high school

family. education first. [inaudible] >> the kids that i have here are determined to not follow in the footsteps of what was in the past. i'm hoping i can spark something in them to say, i want to know more, i want to learn more. >> in mississippi, do people talk about slavery as the cause of war? >> you don't hear the word of slavery or slaves in mississippi. that was an incidental part of it. i guess the simple term is whitewash, as i told my class, that a lot of time, you want to see the good part of the history, especially history that you are part of, and you want to minimize the bad part about it. slavery is not an easy topic to tackle for black or for white. >> so how do you tackle the story of slavery? >> one thing is that the slaves were more powerful than we give them credit for. >> people said lincoln freed

the slaves, but you say, actually, they freed themselves. >> that was a question. >> why couldn't slaves free themselves in a sense before all of this if they freed themselves? >> you didn't have the abolition movement. you didn't have those people step forward. but those people, to me, were just as brave as the 1960s, probably even more brave. think about nat turner. >> to make a change, you have to be able to -- >> that's it, he caused people to think. he went from plantation to plantation, killing everybody. he wanted to kill the women and children. he wanted to do that. why? >> you expect for a dude to be

dead, you expect a mother, three kids [inaudible] he did. he set the right tone. you want to kill wives, children. yeah. >> [inaudible] >> don't take for granted the lives that were lost. who is brave enough to try the system when it's wrong? that is what makes these guys heroic. we can't devalue what we did. a white guy whose grandfather was confederate. they can keep that memory alive, why can't we? >> in holmes county, i notice how we have the grahams and the lees and we also have caucasian people at the same last name. i was always wondering, is there any relation between the two? then i learned that, you know, slaves got their last name from their slave owners. it's like, did this family own this family? or did they come from --?

i always wondered about that. >> there is this enormous history of slavery in holmes county. do people ever talk about that? >> about? >> just the question of the history of slavery here. >> no. >> do you know if your ancestors were enslaved here? >> i don't know. >> would you want to know? >> not really. >> why? >> because i don't want to think about what all they went through for us. >> how come? >> because they are -- because they worked for all their life, being enslaved and not being treated right. that will just bring me down because they suffered and i wish somebody could've did something for them to help them out. >> you don't wanna think about because it makes you sad? >> yeah. >> i don't wanna hate people.

i want to hate people based on their character towards me now, not what they did hundreds of years ago, or their family did hundreds of years ago. >> i think white people are afraid it's going to make them feel ashamed. >> yeah. i think so, too. that's why they're probably, when you're teaching -- i keep going back to the teaching. it's where it all starts because i doubt if a white man would tell his six-year-old daughter we owned slaves, or we did this to slaves. i doubt if that happens. >> i think we all should learn the real history because, as black people, we think we know but we don't. i never met my great grandmother. you know, they don't talk about slavery, the racial segregation. they don't talk about it. >> would you want to ask her

about it? >> i would. but i wouldn't, i think she would say she don't know to avoid the conversation. >> and why do you think she would want to avoid the conversation? >> it might hurt her. she might feel mad about it. >> it's hard to talk about things like that. >> yeah. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> it's personal around here. we're in a southern state. we're talking about the civil war.

i'm going to have students that are pulling for the confederacy. i was that student. i pulled for the confederacy. they are southern. i'm southern, right? it's not about slavery in your mind. it's just like it's the cowboys versus the redskins and you want the cowboys to win the football game, right? it is what it is in their head. so, when you throw slavery in there, it complicates it. it is not a football game. this was real. most history classes we teach that the winners write history. the civil war, the losers try to write history. when we look at southerners, how they try and twist the narrative what happened, i want to put us in their shoes and learn why. if you can teach empathy when it comes to history, it's such a powerful thing for the rest of your lives. >> all right, boys. in your packet, turn to new

perspectives on slavery. what we have here are statistics about slavery. i want you to talk about what's jumps out at you. >> it says about 1. 1 million southern families owned no slaves. only about a little over 350,000 owned slaves. that's only a fourth or fifth. it's actually pretty crazy statistics. only a handful of people had one or five slaves. it's just probably around the household, which probably would've been treated pretty well. >> it depends. >> of course, the southerners we're trying to -- they weren't treated like regular humans, but they took care of them because they were a way to make money. >> correct. it is an investment. that's my money. i need to take care of my money. i want that to continue producing money for me therefore i take care of it. i don't take care of it and provide. i mean, it's still a dirt floor they sleep on. you know? i'm still working them 10 to 12 hours. let's look at 210. whippings per person. in the south, where was the wealth? owning land and owning slaves.

if i invested $23,000 in something, i don't want to beat it to a pulp, right? why did they do it? >> fear. >> you hit on it, that's the word. here's what american slavery is about. money and fear. they are making lots of money. they are terrified of what happens if this goes away. what happens when people talk about abolition and emancipation? what do i start picturing in my head? >> getting lynched. >> yes. retribution. they're going to come after us. so, you can look at it and say the situation is not great, but i don't want to get lynched. i don't want people throwing rocks through my windows. urs astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can... astepro and go. ♪♪ meta portal go. look professional. ♪♪ even if you don't feel it.

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in short, 27 means getting people off the streets and into housing. yes on 27. want a permanent solution to homelessness? you won't get it with prop 27. it was written and funded by out-of-state corporations to permanently maximize profits, not homeless funding. 90% of the profits go to out-of-state corporations permanently. only pennies on the dollar for the homeless permanently. and with loopholes, the homeless get even less permanently. prop 27. they didn't write it for the homeless. >> the violence, police they wrote it for themselves. officers pointed their guns into crowds of young people. it was shocking to me. why are we still in a war in this country over race? slavery, it lasted 200 years.

you have to develop a psychology on the part of the white people who were doing this, that involves enormous acts of denial. we haven't even claimed it as the horrific system that it was. >> she says, slavery is the cause. and so, many white people that we hear say, don't talk to me about slavery. i didn't own slaves. my parents didn't own slaves. >> the cultural conditioning that began in slavery has continued. the privileges that you see some white people have goes back to, i'm more than you, i'm better than you. >> why? why? why, teresa? why are they better? >> oh, i don't believe that. >> i know, but why do they think they're better? >> privilege. privilege has told them they're better. >> they don't even know that privilege. and i remember a book i read in seminary --

>> i don't buy that they don't know they are privileged. >> i serve a congregation of over educated white people, who don't recognize their privilege. they don't see that you start that -- >> if you don't feel that you are privileged, how do you account for the differences between white people and disadvantaged black people? >> they're not comparing themselves to black people, right? like, my white friends are mostly comparing themselves to other highly educated well-off white friends. >> but when you say, white people can't get it, i don't buy that. >> i don't know what they can't get? >> i don't buy that for a moment! >> since the 60s, i have been proving to myself, and there comes a point in life when you say, i'm done. it's on them now, because i know i am okay. so the way i look at it, is

your loss. i don't intend to spend all of my life proving to white people that i'm okay. >> don't prove it, i think you need to get educated. >> no, we don't. >> what i'm saying is that -- >> they need to open their minds -- >> last night, i was at this conversation about slavery being the source of our racial problems. the topic of white privilege came up a lot. the idea of, you know, white people have advantages in this country, or -- yeah, i mean, advantages. or you can flip it around and say, black people have disadvantages in this country, simply because of skin tone. >> i feel like it kind of goes both ways. sometimes white people have a disadvantage, i had a friend a

couple of years ago. his gpa was like a 4.26, and then he got a friend that was black. they had like a 3.9, like a 3.3, and they both applied to princeton. and the black kid got it. i feel like everyone says, there's a lot of white privilege, so we have to give others like, other ethnicities advantages in this place, instead of trying to view everyone as just like an american. >> i mean, not talking about the race issue, just not bringing it up to the next generation would keep them natural in that sense, and they would not be racists. >> i don't think that slavery and the civil war and jim crow should be forgotten. i think they should be remembered because i think they are an important lesson that america isn't perfect, and to work against that in the future. >> if you look at things like that incarceration rate for, you know, young black men in this country, and why is it so disproportional, or why you have the socioeconomic situation that you have,

between white people, black people, that you can see this didn't come out of nowhere. this isn't a reflection of the tone of somebody's skin. it's based in history that goes back before your generation, before my generation, before my grandparent's generation. i mean, it goes way back. >> i think there's a balance between, like, recognizing our past, but also not over talking it. just over emphasizing the problem to where it's always on our minds. and it's difficult to be very equal when it's always on your mind, racism and things like that. >> yeah. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> so please welcome doctor kelly carter jackson. [applause] >> first off, i want to tell you a story about one of my students. he raised his hand and he said, who is harriet tubman? i was like, oh, my god! [laughs]

i tried really hard. sometimes as a professor, you have to like fix your face. before i could answer the question, he goes, oh, i remember. she's the woman who wouldn't get off the bus. and i was like, no, no, that's not her at all. but it's important because i think it highlights the fact that we only see like one great black man, and one great black woman per century. so force and freedom, my book, really tries to introduce new voices and to highlight black abolitionists in particular. the moment the first black person is enslaved, they're pushing back. they are collecting arms as much as they possibly can to prepare for what they believe is inevitable. and that is the violent overthrow of slavery. >> there seems to be a kind of cirricular resistance to teaching this aspect of american history. look, and i think, i'm also a historian. i can understand this, and i can anticipate why. but i just wanted you to talk

about, it takes your book to underscore force, as well as freedom, you know? and we all know that that's a part of this history, but it's not taught that way. >> yeah. it's not taught, i think, because we have this hypocritical, i think, hypocritical love affair with violence. we talk about violence, i think, in these really romantic ways. but that's only when we're talking about white men, right? when the situation is reversed, it is terrifying to think of black people using force or using violence to bring about their freedom. >> is it rolling? >> so, i want to talk to you about what you've learned so far, right, in college. is there anything you've learned here about the story of the civil war, that would be hard to talk about with people back home? >> yeah, if -- my daddy is like that typical southern male.

he knows everything, you don't question him. you know, i love him to death. that is the way he is. that's why people are down here. if i told him that the main cause of the civil war was slavery, he would probably, like m open the bible and start preaching at me and stuff like that. i don't know. >> why would he find that offensive? >> my great-great grandfather did fight the civil war. and he did come back, he came back like alive and it messed him up at the time. it was a bad situation for my family at the time that i would not know near enough about what were the details. but is just like remembrance of how hard times where at that time, because it was really hard for my family, because we were born and raised in --,

mississippi. in, like, my grandparents house, there's and old rebel flag in one of those flag boxes. and like, we don't take it out. we don't rub it at people's noses. it's just, you know, up there above a cabinet. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> it has been called the war of brother against brother, the civil war. soldier and nation, together, found that their fears and doubts were not so strong as their faiths, and in national tryings like gettysburg. we memorialize the soliders that gave themselves, unreservedly for what they believed to be right. remember and be proud. >> we never really had a racial reckoning.

the problem started first immediately after the war. if you want north and south to get together and get along again, you don't talk about causes and consequences. you talk about the mutual valor on that battlefield. ♪ ♪ ♪ why doesn't that confederacy, which only lasted for years, just go away? the racial reasons are paramount. it also has to do with this idea that the confederacy was a dissent. man, they went to the limit. and they deserved respect for all of that courage. they claim, after they lost, that they were only reacting to the overreach of centralized federal power. there is the kind of admiration of that still in our culture. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> james mcgill, he settled this farm almost 200 years ago. and i felt like i followed in his footsteps. my wife raised the children. all i ever did was work. of course, now, the federal government took my farm. so, i had it financed with the federal government farmer's home administration. they wouldn't redo my loans. during the war and reconstruction, people in the south lost everything. i can empathize with them. it made me mad. i can understand why they were mad. they spent 150 years -- people are still mad in the south about it. it is wrong for the federal government to dictate to the states what they should or should not do. ever since the war, no one's

property has been secure. there is a lot of talk of reparations for slaves, you know? my great-great grandfather, no one paid -- abraham lincoln, he emanicipated the slaves, he did not get paid for them. the war -- southern independence changed our country for the worse. and my opinion. >> what do you think? do you think they changed for the worst? >> i'm trying to process everything. i do understand that parts of my father is speaking on because i feel that way. the government is too big and has too much power. it is an invasion. how long would it take them to free the slaves? how long would it have taken for them to realize that slavery is wrong?

>> do you think slavery left an imprint on the minds of people in america? >> sure, it left an imprint. i'm saying the war left more of an imprint. that is my personal opinion. >> for black and white? >> yes. >> you feel like the war itself was a bigger aggression than slavery? >> yes. >> it feels like you are dismissing the experience of millions of enslaved people. it feels like you are not seeing what they experienced at the hands of the people who were enslaving them. i mean, how is treating people as property not a greater horror? >> my feeling is that it was legal. it was a settled way of order. they had laws that they had to live up to, and were forced on them, and treat them civilly.

i don't hate james mcgill. i just want universities and schools to stop teaching our children to hate our southern ancestors. they don't deserve that. astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can... astepro and go.

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chase. make more of what's yours. do you know what the confederate flag looks like? >> it is red white and blue with stars. >> where have you seen that flag? >> i see it when i am driving, when i'm traveling. i see it, i live in the countryside. and the countryside i traveled in greenwood, and it's white people back there. it's no black people. and i see a lot of confederate flags that hang up the houses, hang up the mailboxes. i seen the back on people's trucks. >> and what does it make you think? >> grow up, basically. >> in class, you said you are good public speaker? >> yes, i am.

>> what makes you a good speaker? >> my projection, my performance. when i speak, i capture attention, and i know that i capture attention. i do oratoricals. i won first place in five, six oratoricals. and i've once taken place one. >> i don't notice any white kids at the school, are there any white kids at your school? >> no. >> why is that? >> i would say, in my personal opinion, i don't know if that's why, but i would simply say, the fact that the segregation is like how we are here. like, it just socially happened. like this is the black schools. central homes is the white kids school. this is how the neighborhood, this is how the parents separated everything. >> have you ever had a white friend? >> no. i have never, i have never been

around a white person. i've never had a complete conversation to even become associates. >> do you think that the civil war is relevant to your life? >> i feel that it is relevant because your past, your history, is your story. whether or not you know it or not, it is your story. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> these are 209,245. americans in the union army, it's one of the civil war. they started every branch of the army. 142 regiments. seven cavalry regiments. 13 --

they look to each other's, because if you served for three years, all you had is your comrades. >> go left, go left, go left, go left, right. go left. go left. go left. go left, right. >> so this is the african american civil war museum. in the museum, we built a great model of history. america has a history of that whole conflict they did not include african americans, and these african american soldiers that played a great role in ending that war, to preserve

the nation and end enslavement here in the united states. the war started. well, once he realized he couldn't win this war without us, then the war started to change in lincoln's favor. 150, 000, they were enslaved, living in all southern states. they literally lived up with uniforms on and rifles and pockets. so if you think, i live in a world that's out of control and, there's nothing that i can do about it. well, there is something you can do about it, and you can take lessons from these people whose stories we tell here in this museum. i think it's liberating. >> we're making this tone that how we tell the story of the civil war, and i think you guys have been -- what did you think? >> i hear like it's living in this country. it's like, oh, the civil war, you know about it. when you start to learn about it, there's so many like, intricate details of why things happened. and i think it's it's important that we learn about it. but the one thing that does

like not concern me, but most people here have the same kinds of political views, which, you know, it's great to be around people who think like you. but at the same time, there is no like real conversation. there's no real dialogue and understanding. like people of different views than you, which is i think how we can move forward. i think that's important. >> and in order for people to really get your perspective and understand where you're coming from, what's one thing they should know about you? >> right. i mean, the biggest thing for me is gender. i try to present as masculinly as i can. you know, people still sometimes stick me for a girl, and that's a big thing that's hard for me to deal with. yeah, that's probably the biggest one. >> it's like you're not getting

fully seen? >> right. yeah. >> reconstruction has been the most contested question in america's historical memory. reconstruction is a period of time that begins immediately after the war. 10 to 12 years, when america had to truly reinvent itself. 14th amendment puts equal protection of the law into the u.s. constitution. and the right to vote for black men in the 15th amendment, was a constitutional and a legal revolution. and some black spokesmen by the 1890s, at the turn of the 20th century, would often refer to 1865 as the year zero of a new

calendar. a new beginning to history itself. but you have to incorporate the white south into an american union. a society that had just lost approximately 18% of its adult male population in war. how do you reunify those people at the emotional level, with the side that is the victor? ve metastatic breast cancer. when your time is threatened, it's hard to invest in your future. until now. kisqali is helping women live longer than ever before when taken with an aromatase inhibitor or fulvestrant... in hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer. kisqali is a pill that's proven to delay disease progression. kisqali can cause lung problems, or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death.

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civil law roundtable. we call ourselves a civil war roundtable named after a town. >> we sent 300 men from this town and that's how --

>> i think it was four. >> close to 400. >> 50 of them died, but bases of our meeting tonight, we called a reconstruction in what went right and what went wrong? holy macro. i want to talk about reconstruction. the physical period of time from 1865 to 1877. you know, in the schools, we came to reconstruction and the chapter ended on the civil war. >> how are you gonna build this part of the country with malice towards, as lincoln's words, how can you do that? >> no one on the civilian side, on the confederate presidency, was ever forced to concede and repudiate what they believed. and we allowed a group of

people that waged an armed insurrection against their government, to build statues, to their heroes. so that has kept it alive. we have never solved the core problem, the civil war. and that's why, reconstruction didn't have a chance, the north was fighting back and forth here in the whole reconstruct period. >> the elephant in the room, the north and south were racists, period. the black was not considered to be a human being. >> good! how are you? >> have you ever had an african american member of this group, because it struck me in the conversation about race that everyone was white? >> we never really had. >> have you checked of the demographics of this area? >> is it all whites? >> we're in the 90s, well, which is an odd thing because we live in -- we border brockton, which is predominantly i would say minorities, which are really the majorities now. i mean, how you reach out to say that they're welcome, they're welcome? i mean, how do welcome make them to feel that they're welcome? how do you do that? i mean, yeah, that's a good question. i'll have to think about that.

it's the same question as why we live right next to brockton and we don't have a larger population of blacks. >> other than kingston. and there's not that large population of blacks in the county of kingston. the civil lake region high school is the fourth or fifth lease diversified high school, with, you know, 1500 kids in it. i mean, there are a few families, but why? yet, you go into brockton, or you go into the cities you tend to find a larger minority community. is it because those minorities feel more comfortable there? i don't know. i don't have the answers. >> facing the rising sun, of

our new day begun. ♪ ♪ ♪ let us march on until victory is won. >> they say shadow beneath our hand. may it forever stand. true to our god, true to our native land. see, you guys were tricky. my native land, what does it make up? >> our land. what does us mean to you? what was reconstruction? when was it? >> after slavery. >> after slavery, yes,. after the civil war. this is when black people tried to teach america how to have a real democracy. during reconstruction, black people who were able to vote in the south, and they got in the state legislatures and passed laws. to say things like, everybody

should go to school for free. white people, yeah poor white people too. this man like here, came out of slavery in virginia. he came to d. c. as a congressman from virginia. this man was born into slavery. [inaudible] i mean, it's congressman langston now. that's why i love reconstruction. we have real heroes. are we any different than these people were? >> no. >> no we're not. you know what's different? we just don't remember. my name is greg carr. anyone associate professor and general department of african studies here at howard university. >> and what connection do you have to the history of the civil war and reconstruction? >> well, in addition to the direct history, my ancestors have been brought here from north carolina and alabama. no civil war veterans in my direct family, but we were enslaved in alabama. so obviously, coming out of a civil war, my family, share croppers, coming in the era of jim crow, great migration moving throughout the south. you know, i'm a living part of

that stream of history. and as a professor here at howard university, and particularly in africa american studies, which is the steady and area i work in, i devoted a what's this right here? >> deed of sale. >> deed of sale. these are reconstruction eras documents. most people in the country don't no anything about that. you can say we saw the charter, we saw the deed of sale for the land. >> you know, you're the only teacher i've filmed who is focused on the freed people's point of view when teaching reconstruction. how does teaching from that point of view make a difference for your students? >> i hope they will walk out with is a sense of human purpose that they have a stake in. there is always the threat of forgetting in terms of national memory. when you start talking about a settler state like the united states that came out of a settler colony with many different people, there is almost a required forgetting, a

violence of forgetting in order to force a type of unity of culture, the unity of national identity. so the work that remains to be done is to recognize our full history. that story will make you so proud of black people. it will also break your heart. s. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today.

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the clinton riots marker? >> have i taken a picture of that marker. i know exactly where it is, near the railroad track in clinton. >> that's right. and what do you think. tell me what -- what do you know about that marker? >> well, i think that the clinton riot marker is particularly important because there was a riot during reconstruction in the town of clinton that was not in the history books that i read growing up studying mississippi history and the local public schools. reconstruction in america, not just in mississippi, is one of the most overlooked and underappreciated historical eras. and the people who wrote about it afterwards, north and south, wrote about it mainly from a white supremacy point of view, whether they were in ohio and michigan or alabama or mississippi. there was lots of violence throughout america during reconstruction against african americans. it's -- it's a terrible time in our history from that perspective. it was a great time of

experimentation with providing the rights of citizenship and political equality to african americans. unfortunately, through the lens of white supremacy, that was too much for a lot of white people to take during that time. >> are there any other markers in mississippi that acknowledge white violence against african-americans? >> the only marker of which i am aware that exists that depicts and talks about white violence against black people during reconstruction is the clinton riot marker. >> in mississippi? >> in mississippi. >> my name is missy jones. my title is a visiting instructor of history at mississippi college. >> how long have you been working on the clinton riots? >> almost 15 years now, if i think back. >> what is this? >> this is johnson milling company. it's been here for ages, but right behind it is the location

of the old train depot. and the thought was that we would put the marker for the clinton riot here because of the importance of the train depot. the clinton riots began on september 4th, 1875. and the diorama behind me tells a version of those events. the original train depot is where white paramilitary units flocked into clinton. there was a political rally, and it was one of the first times that african americans had gotten together to really listen to political candidates. and it was organized by the republican party, but there was also a group of white democrats who were sent there to disrupt things. shots rang out. african american families began to flee the scene. even one mother left her child in the hollow of a tree just for protection.

and then over the course of the next several days, white liners began to flood into clinton and then systematically round up those who organized the rally and then kill them. sometimes in front of their own families members. >> so this is a group of white democrats killing the black republicans? >> correct. it was the plan of the white democrats to keep african americans from voting. the violence served as a pretext for the return of white rule and the end of reconstruction in mississippi. >> do you feel like people know that this marker exists? >> no, i don't. just given where it is behind this old mill, i feel like it has the potential to look hidden, and that was my fear with placing it here. i would definitely prefer it to be in a more prominent location

because this event is by far the most important event that ever took place in the city. the clinton riot has always been one of these contested events. for years and years and years, it's been told as if it was caused by african americans, that they were going take back the city. accost the women. for essentially 140 years, the history was told incorrectly, and the violence was blamed on the black members of the clinton community. >> my name is james robinson. i'm from here in clinton. lifetime resident, except for a few years. >> i'm deborah. james is my cousin. >> this picture here, my grandmother's grandmother. she was caught in the proximity of the clinton riot. and in order to save her child,

she hid the child in a tree. and then after the skirmish was over, then she went back and got the child. as the article says, old clinton history told from tales by ex-slave. this was published in the newspaper in 1961. >> as far as the black citizens in clinton, you don't carry a lot about our history. a lot of times i think our elders have tended to just discuss things among themselves as opposed to bring it to the forefront. because it can stir up a lot of emotions. >> and what's the result of stirring up emotions? >> you get a lot of good and you got some bad. >> what's the bad? >> the fact that somebody could vandalize if you put up anything. >> i just hope that that doesn't happen in clinton. there is still a lot of racist attitudes. >> there are some that -- and i'm thinking about missy. when i first met missy, she said, the first word that came

out of her mouth was "nigger." and her parents were so proud of her when she said that word because that meant you knew you were superior to somebody else. >> you've been so dedicated. so long. you've dedicated so much care and time and effort to this. why do you care about this? >> i'm going get emotional, but i grew up in a family in mississippi. my dad was from new york. my mom's family was from south mississippi. 90% white, 10% black. still segregated in the ways in which people in the communities live. but i was raised in a racist family, racist community at the time in which i grew up. things have changed in a good

bit now, but for me i think i didn't want to repeat that. i feel a responsibility with the profession that i've chosen to tell things accurately and to not repeat generational incorrectness with my own family. i want to do something different. clean ingredients... in a buttery brioche roll. made fresh, to leave you... speechless. panera's new chef's chicken sandwiches. $1 delivery fee on our app. i typed in grandma's name and birth year... and there she was, working at the five and dime. my dad's been wondering about his childhood address

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every search you make, every click you take, every move you make, every step you take, i'll be watching you. the internet doesn't have to be duckduckgo is a free all in one privacy app with a built in search engine, web browser, one click data clearing and more stop companies like google from watching you, by downloading the app today. duckduckgo: privacy, simplified. are you passionate about this project? just like what drives you with making this documentary? >> i didn't start as passionate. i started as curious. >> yeah. >> and i had the sense that there was something missing that i hadn't been taught. and it's only through the making

of this film that i really have come to see the past story was totally white. it used to that white supremacy means a bunch of guys in white robes. but it really means not even recognizing that we're only telling white stories. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> during the reconstruction era, there is fear all over the place. white fear of those black majority populations if they really vote was colossal.

so many white southerners saw this idea of black people serving on juries or black people owning land as an intolerable revolution. and it necessitated a counterrevolution, even if it necessitated the use of terrorist violence. the lost cause tradition was a response to that tremendous fear. we like to go to bed at night believing our society is in social order. i don't have to worry about my child tomorrow being confronted by totally unusual and repugnant ideas or totally unusual and repugnant people. i'm safe by the history i know. so the lost cause tradition that southerners developed the story for their explanation of their

defeat became ultimately a victory narrative. a victory over reconstruction. and they crushed the very idea of slavery as the central cause and the very idea of emancipation of four million slaves as a central result of the civil war. you begin to see wide scale even official efforts to crush what we might call black memory. >> if we throw away our confederate flag, we throw away the history of south carolina and of the united states. >> we are true southerners, i guess. to me it's a flag for everybody, black and white representing our heritage. i can understand to some degree how they would have been upset years ago, but that's been 130 years ago now. to me it's our flag. >> go home!

[ chanting ] >> white only! no black. send them home. >> go home, nigger. >> breaking news. a horrific scene in charlottesville, virginia. a white nationalist rally that descended into deadly violence and chaos. >> since the city voted to remove the robert e. lee statue, there have been protests, and now violence. >> come here. who you? >> i am stephanie roth, and i'm assistant professor of history in jackson, mississippi. the images that we're seeing on our computers and on our phones

and on television, you can't divorce this from the need to return to some sort of innocent past. >> like the old south? >> yes. >> what is the old south? >> after the civil war, the old south myth is this mythologized place of big plantation houses with corinthian columns and mint juleps and hoop skirts and southern gentlemen and happy slaves. everyone is well taken care of. some people are owned by other people, but everyone is well fed, well clothed, loved and appreciated. and that is not -- this is why something like this would appeal to white northerners, because that's not the environment that they lived in. >> it's really a story about the merits of white supremacy. you know, i filmed with another historian who said it was really white supremacy that helped the north and the south reunify after the war. do you think that's true? >> i fully believe that when

we're talking even across the spectrum from the coming of the civil war to the prosecution of it and the aftermath, i think it's a much more productive approach to describe and understand white supremacy than it is to even talk about slavery. slavery doesn't survive. but white supremacy does. the war ends. reconciliation has been achieved. what happens unexpectedly is that in that reconciliation the nation itself embraces the confederacy. and the memory of the confederacy. this is why by the time you get to the 1930s, people from all over the country are coming to places like natchez, mississippi to tour antebellum homes and to see women in hoop skirts and people dressed up as enslaved persons. this is a vacation for them.

can you think of a cultural footprint of this today, where the south gets sort of fetishized? >> grades second through fifth, we used to go every year to the destry plantation. >> and what does that tour include? >> it included a tour of the plantation. they also had a little show put on. people dressed up and stuff. and they sang songs, played music. it was like -- it was almost like a little party. >> are the tours in any way engaging enslavement? >> they don't really talk about the slavery part. you want to have a good time. i used to look forward to going to the plantation. it was a big deal. >> i mean, can we even think about these plantations as spaces of violence? we think about things like confederate monuments or symbols and flags, all of these remembrances are in white visions. those are renewals of white

supremacy. and in my mind, keeping that confederate battle flag in the top left corner of mississippi state flag is a way to keep that narrative alive, and it's threatening because if we lose it, what happens to our memory? ♪♪ ♪♪ blood pressureyou might alreadyw that prop 27 taxes and regulates

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my name is william shirley. i serve in the mississippi house of representatives for district 84. about 16,000 people in the whole county. everybody knows everybody. you get a speeding ticket, everybody knows. i'm not here to argue the design of the flag. that is not my intent. some universities took the flag down.

if you're receiving state dollars and you're a public university, then you should display whatever that symbol is. >> and do you think this is an issue that matters to the people in your district? >> yes, ma'am. >> why? >> i just think it's a heritage. it's a history. there is a big movement to remove confederate history. well, it's part of history. you know? where and when is enough? >> do you feel like slavery was something that was in the past, let's move on? or do you feel like slavery still has an effect today? >> it's over and it is part of history. it's part of the past. i don't know of a person that owns a slave or has been a slave to this day. i think we're going to make it a major issue as long as we keep rubbing it in from the standpoint of the minority saying well, we were slaves and mistreated. i understand that.

what the hell do you want me to do about it? i'm sorry. i wasn't there. i'm 50 years old. i wasn't there. >> and what do you say to historically black universities that say we're not going fly this flag because it's a symbol of slavery? do you think about their point of view? >> it is the state flag of mississippi. >> but if they say it actually hurts us, it deeply offends us. it represents something that gives us pain. what do you say to that? >> i don't see the pain in the symbol. ♪♪ >> new orleans is just the latest city to start taking down historical but controversial monuments that many say celebrate slavery and the confederacy. >> white supremacy. >> let's go!

>> when? >> now. >> now! >> when? >> now! >> all right, all right. >> we're here to celebrate the taking down of the jefferson davis statue here in new orleans center. these were all jim crow era statues meant to emphasize that white people were in control. >> is there any value? >> there is no value in keeping those statues. there is value in remembering what these statues were put up for. >> what do you say to the people across the street who are marching with flags -- >> i don't say nothing to the people across the street. they are not on my radar. they're unredeemable as far as i'm concerned. >> we pray, oh, lord, that those who are attacking our heritage may repent of their since. sins. we pray, oh, lord, that the truth of history will triumph. >> i feel like the country never reunified after the war with all of its citizens, right? maybe taking down these statues now could help us reunify. >> but don't try to take away

history just because you don't agree with it. if you really study history, you'll see it was more than just slavery. there was taxation issues. >> hold on. is he putting on a bulletproof vest? >> probably. >> why? >> because they were firing paint ball at these guys the other night. sounds harmless, but who's to say that they don't try something more? a lot of these people are from out of town. >> these are visitors from out of town who are confederate supporters, and they come here to occupy our city for a couple of weeks and stand their grounds and all that good stuff. >> isn't the goal to have more people feel represented? don't we need to listen to each other? they say the statue is a source of southern pride. >> fuck the south. fuck southern pride. the source of all of this tension and anger comes from the erasure of african americans' history,

bloodlines, cultures, family for hundreds of years by way of this thing that they're upholding. so if you can't balance that in your mind, then i can't do anything for your lack of an iq or common sense. i'm sorry. >> it's not about race. this has never been about race. i feel like we're having our history stolen from us. this was our only confederate president. he died here. >> you don't need to have that in a diverse neighborhood. >> how is an intimate object like a symbol affecting you greatly -- ♪ get the fuck out of new orleans, get the fuck out of new orleans ♪ >> i pray for america, i really do. [ cheering ] ♪♪ >> dear god and heavenly father

we thank you for your love and your grace and your mercy, and please, bless us during the coming hour as we pay homage to our ancestors, the 15,265 souls that gave their life to defend the great state of mississippi. for christ's sake, amen. our next speaker is someone that i really appreciate, and he's got backbone. that's the kind of people we need, people that stand up. and mr. william shirley of clarke county, would you come say a few words? give him a hand. [ applause ] >> the flag means a whole lot to me. you're not going to take the damn flag down with my vote. so i'm going to do all i can, and i suggest you find your legislator and make your ear known to him or her because we all in the mississippi house are going to get to vote on them amendments again and again and

again. and they going to get tired of seeing me. and they're going to try to get somebody to replace people like me that just don't go around with yassuh, boss man. if you're taking state dollars, you fly the flag of the state of mississippi. thank you, all. >> our mississippi senator mack daniel come speak. [ applause ] >> political correctness is an incredibly dangerous doctrine. it's anti-intellectual. it's anti-dissent. it demands conformity. do you believe they'll stop with a monument? do you believe they'll stop with a pattern or design on a flag? they ridicule our traditions. they mock us. they laugh at us. you feel like you're losing your country, don't you? you feel marginalized. you're scared. mississippi has to stand. we have nothing else to surrender. we are those warriors, men and women of the soil. stubborn, courageous. we stand here on the edge of

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how would you like to see uncle billy dance? ♪♪ >> at the end of the day, historical memory is always about who is controlling the story. and you got to do it in a society that has this horrible problem with racism, with theories of race that most white americans north or south still share.

by the 1890s in the north, there is a tremendous fear of a world that seems to be floating into disorder and these teeming new cities full of these immigrants speaking unusual languages. maybe the race question should just be left to the south. they've always known how to handle the race question. at the same time, there will be over 9 million african americans mostly in the south. there is no longer the slavery system that kept us all contained. white southerners need to keep this burgeoning black population on the land as laborers, not engaging in educational advancement. they need a new system to keep them there.

the solution in the south was a system of jim crow laws. everything from schooling to voting to transportation, public accommodation, every element of life is now going to be segregated. lots of white americans, north or south, can unify around segregation as a way to keep society and social order. the way in which this culture became within the first half century after the war an american north/south reunion without racial justice left a deep set of legacies we are of course still struggling with, and every time we think we have so much of this put aside, we suddenly are reminded that we don't.

the only way today we'll see a new more inclusive reunion of americans is if there is a coalition of interest that stops looking only at their own individual interests and sees themselves in these four or five issues and sees themselves in other people. okay. >> we're just going to record this. and then if you could change the frame too. there you go. if i were going to make a movie about you, what do you want me to make sure that i include? >> i want you to show, like, the great things that i'm capable of. yeah, i'm -- if i say something, do say so myself, i'm a great football player, but almost

-- also smart in the classroom. try -- try -- i'm just trying to be great in life. i'm trying to make something of my life, i'm trying to be successful. >> to be honest with you, what i been through. because there are people who just look at the good things, look at the good things. but i'd rather you see what the negativity was so it's like it counteracts. it's like here is the bad but here where i am, i'm good now. i'm in a good zone. you know what i'm saying? it's more like i rather you not just tell half of my story. i'd rather you tell the whole story. >> there is this one word a teacher once described me as, yeah, i think it was sympathetic. i thought she called me pathetic when she said it. >> it might have been empathetic. >> yeah. at the end of the day, we all have feelings. we all have a history that nobody else knows about. and, yeah.

♪♪ >> i was certainly not taught this way in my high school. >> neither was i. >> so i'm always shocked when i find students of a certain age who haven't seen "gone with the wind." and i point to it, you need to watch that film, it's the most watched movie of all time. people are eating this stuff up. there is a real reason why people have weddings on plantations, right? you would never go to auschwitz and let's get married. you would never do that. but we have so made black pain and suffering like a place of our enjoyment, a place that feels good to us, a place that feels familiar to us that we don't pay attention to the suffering. we don't pay attention to why it's problematic. >> i know you talked about the

force in your presentation. but how do you define freedom for yourself? >> i have been conditioned to think of emancipation as an ending point. so i realize that freedom was not just like liberation. freedom was like owning your humanity, operating your full humanity, being recognized for your full humanity. i think that the spirit of slavery that i talked about before that makes color a mark of degradation is still very much with us, and i think for too long, the onus of racism has been put on people of color to solve when this is not really like a people of color issue. this is a white supremacist issue where white people need to talk to other white people about how they can overcome these issues. white allies today have to take a very radical stance if that they can't just put up the bumper sticker black lives matter. are you going to allow your

child to be one of the few whites in an all black school? you going invest in that school, making sure not just your child, but every child in that community gets a fair shake to balance like this great injustice that's taken place for hundreds of years. it requires sacrifice. i don't know what that will look like exactly for you or for each person it's different, i think. ♪ pop rock sic ♪ >> tech: my customer enjoy time with her family. so when her windshield got a crack... she scheduled with safelite in just a few clicks. we came to her house... ...replaced the windshield... and installed new wipers. that's service on her time. >> grandkid: here you go! >> tech: wow, thank you! >> customer and grandkids: bye! >> tech: bye! don't wait, schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ are you feeling sluggish or weighed down? metamucil's new fiber plus collagen can help. when taken daily, it supports your health,

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♪♪ this is pleasant gardens. this was where most of the african americans in city were buried. it was in operation from 1891 through 1970. but one day i saw in the paper an article about an abandoned cemetery. so i thought i can't believe that there is a place here that's so rich with history and i didn't know about it. and so i used the map on the

front of the newspaper and drove over to the cemetery and found this beautiful place, and immediately felt the need to organize some community cleanups to bring attention to it. many of the african americans that are buried here were not slaves. and so they could be buried and recognized in different ways, but there is a very interesting cemetery called beck knob cemetery that's located on the north side of town, and it was a slave cemetery. and when you look at how overgrown it is, it's almost sad that you can almost drive past it and not even know it. >> would you take us there? >> yeah, i can take you there, but i don't know how much you'll be able to see because it's really overgrown.

>> wow. i knew i wasn't crazy. look how close this line is to that. mouk. ♪♪

>> what has been the most important story that you've talked about in history class so far this year? >> well, slavery was bad. we should still feel guilty because it's something that happened. >> but we interviewed a kid from estonia, and he has white skin, and his family wasn't even here. should he feel guilty about it? >> well, if he's living in our country now, then i think he should feel a little guilt because it's still part of his -- it's still part of his history because now he is part of our country. and he should feel a little guilt, i think. >> is guilt useful? >> yes. >> tell me why. >> because it helps us understand that what we did was

wrong and we shouldn't go back to doing it. and we should fix our ways so we can do better in the future. >> i personally, like, slavery is morally wrong. you shouldn't own other people. that's not something that should happen. but i see -- i see the reasoning behind it, and i can understand it and not accept it, but i see like behind it, i guess. >> i think a lot depends on who's eyes you're looking through, right? are we talking about an all white point of view or a black point of view. a lot depends on who you are, i think. >> i want to know what was your perspective of the whole slavery situation, how you feel like because you know being raised in, how do you feel like when people --

>> i feel like it was wrong. i feel like it was deeply wrong. but i also feel like i never learned about slavery as a white story. i mean, with people around me, we never talk about slavery as something white people did and benefitted from, you know? it was always just presented as something that just happened. >> i want to introduce ibram kendi. ibrahim, you argue that the threat of racism is more prominent now than in the past. >> precisely. just as lincoln said, that the

nation will become all one or all the other, meaning slavery or anti-slavery, i think it's the same thing for racism and anti-racism. >> if we see america's history as steady racial progress that we have now reached the mountaintop. racism is no longer critical and important, we're also seeing the cause of racial inequities today is not racism, because we've moved beyond racism. it's inferiority of particular people that are not working hard enough. there is a racist idea that is still very prominent within the community of people who consider themselves liberal, even progressive or even radical. the oppression inferiority thesis. first it was slavery making black people into brutes. right now it's poverty. this idea that racism itself or

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when you walk down the street and people see you, what do you want people to think about you? do you think about that ever? >> i want them to think that i'm an intelligent girl and i'm not bad. i'm actually very good, and i'm smart. >> what makes you good? >> that i follow directions -- well, sometimes. >> what else? >> i want them to think that i'm not ugly. >> it seems to me that one of the major challenges for you as a history teacher would be teaching in a way that connects with such a diverse student body. >> yes, yeah. it is. >> boston latin is kind of like the nation in miniature, because it so big. and it did start as a segregated all male institution. >> yeah. it's the oldest school in the

country. it was founded in 1635 by a portion of the population of boston, england. it was all male. it was all white. it was all people of privilege. >> you know, i've really come to believe that part of the purpose of history is to tell a story that unites us. >> yeah. >> but in order for that story to work, we have to see ourselves as being in the same boat to begin with. >> yep. >> we have to see ourselves as connected to other people. >> i really agree. >> so in your class today, how do you tell a story that helps these kids see themselves as connected to all the diverse people that surround them? >> well, it's important to talk about race and the history. and i want kids to understand that where we are today has its roots in the past, but it's really hard to convey the full scope of the way the history of this country plays out today. and i think it's really difficult to talk about race.

how do you actually help kids to be different than us, our generation who doesn't really know how to do this very well? the only way you do that is by having them do it. >> okay. i want to know what went into place after reconstruction. segregation folks in that corner. we'll put the jury selection folks in the back corner. >> the black voting rights, i found that the 15th amendment, it gave african american males the right to vote, but they kept finding loopholes to keep them from voting. and today, 13% are prohibitive, because they have served in prison. >> yeah.

>> well, i guess i'll say, since we're running out of time, i just think talking about this is really not helpful. because i mean, what it does is it puts people in unproductive mindset's, because what it does is it makes white people feel guilty, and it makes black people feel like victims. >> don't go anywhere. and i want to know what people want to say back to that, because i think it's important that you have a chance to say something. some gonna go with injury on a first. >> like if you're tweeting differently because of something you can't change, why won't you be a victim. >> -- >> yes. >> i see all these hands and we have a bill. and i'm so sorry that's gonna have to stop this. but we will pick this up. look, right where you are, put your hands in the. air this is where we start tomorrow.

how do you feel about the conversation in section 41? >> terrified. >> the idea i want to dismantle is that there is like a system in place, like benefits, it benefits white people and like hasse and negative effect on black people. >> i don't to squash this child. he's, you know, bringing sincere, you know, and rigorous -- i think the word he used was logic. he's thinking about it logically. and logic says that there's gotta be a reason for that. but he doesn't have an answer when i say, you know, so what might be the reason, if you think it's not systemic racism that has caused this. what is the reason? and he says, i don't know. >> you shouldn't have suffering to blame your problems on. and i don't think, i don't think that's a good thing.

asian americans here, they have a hard time, but they still succeed. >> that's gonna be continued tomorrow, and i'm gonna spend my time thinking tonight, what am i gonna say that respects how hard this kid is thinking about these things, which is exactly what i want him to do, and still push back a little bit and say, you know, so, i think you're missing some of the picture here. in a really important way. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger.

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the jim crow area which was written by michele pro alexandra, so, as you're reading through that i want to thinking, how did they recreate it class based on race after reconstruction? >> black people in prison, they auctioned off prisoners to the highest bidder. >> there was a loophole about slavery in the 13th amendment. did anyone catch that? >> yes, thhey outlawed slavery but it was fit as a punishment for crime. >> but she is trying to say is that the criminal justice system, it is literally like the same thing as jim crow. which is your point. >> i think i would say it's a new iteration of it. that's what we're really trying to look at. it's the ways that is still with us. >> that's assuming that jim crow has the presence today. yes, that's your assumption. and that is not my assumption.

asian americans are routinely discriminated when applying for colleges. they have to get about 400 as 18 points higher than black people. and, also, they're discriminated against when they're applying for jobs. your mind is so closed off to certain ideas. >> we'll continue. we will continue. >> i love that you hang in there. >> they are not willing to consider certain ideas because they've been taught that those ideas are -- >> yes, but is the certain idea that you really suggesting that asians are better than black people. that's not what you're really saying, is it? >> i mean, i'm not saying that they are inherently better. i'm just saying that their situation is better right now. >> but, what would you attribute that to? >> higher income. higher representation in colleges and in -- >> but why do you think they have that and why do you think black people don't?

>> i don't know. i mean, asians are discriminated much more in those areas because -- >> then black people? >> yes. >> will agree to disagree on that point. but, we will come back to it. okay? >> okay. well i hope other people will look into it. >> i will look into it. good. thank you. it's a revelation to me that presenting no matter how much information you present, sometimes people are going to hear the way that they want to hear it. and they are not going to budge, at least not yet, he's not. >> but, that is exactly what you're in for when you open the door to having these kinds of conversations. that is what is hard to navigate. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> we are celebrating confederate heroes day, it's a texas state holiday, celebrated on the 19th of january. it is also the opposite of -- >> the bill was filed by a representative from pensacola. it says that a memorial cannot be moved unless it needs to be refurbished. >> this monument, right here, outside of the old courthouse in downtown pittsboro was given to the county by the daughters of the confederacy back in the early 1900s. >> i mean, the fact that the statue states, a lot of ancestors of mine have fallen and died. and they did not died for slavery. they had no sleeves. [applause] [noise] [noise]

[applause] >> the story starts with seeing the monuments. but it's also about being in a black body. what does that feel like? to have your country, your nation say that this is what we stand by. no! we want more. we demand more. we say yes to something that looks like us. we say yes to inclusivity. we say yes to broader notions of what it means to be an american. ♪ ♪ ♪