department of justice today or tomorrow what they will do, whether they'll follow through with an appeal on the decision to have a special master and who that special master might be. we'll have complete coverage as the day goes forward. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> when people ask what i miss most about the white house years, it's not air force one i talk about, although i miss air force one. [ laughter ] it's the chance that i had to stand shoulder to shoulder with all of you. to have a chance to witness so many talented, selfless, idealistic, good people working tirelessly every day to make the world better. >> former president barack obama and former first lady michelle

obama returned to the white house yesterday for the unveiling of their official portraits. president biden resuming a tradition that stalled under donald trump. we'll play more from the white house reunion. it was lovely. including poignant remarks from mrs. obama about why traditions like this are important for democracy. plus, former attorney general bill barr continues to speak out about the trump records case, saying the justice department is close to having enough evidence to indict him, but shouldn't. we'll discuss his reasoning. and the 60-day sprint to the midters begins today, and it seems whoever is managing the money for the republican senate candidates can't get it right. how republican senator rick scott explains burning through loads of cash with little to show for it. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, september 8th.

along with joe, willie, and me, we have the host of "way too early," author of "the big lie," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. and nbc news national affairs analyst and executive editor of "the recount," john heilemann is here. joe, a lot to cover this morning. >> a lot to cover. i'm sure john heilemann and jonathan lemire will have a lot to say, but rick scott has a lot to explain in the final few weeks of the campaign, how we burned through the money. a guy talking about taxing the poorest americans while trying to give tax cuts to the richest americans. a guy who says he wants to sunset social security and medicare every five years. kill the programs. then let the senate and the house debate whether they want to restart those programs again. by the way, he is not a back

bencher. he is the guy in charge of running the senate campaigns and has come up with the agenda for them. >> yeah, he's talking like a back bench bomb thrower on some of these issues, and he is really irritating mitch mcconnell. they're not on the best of terms. mitch mcconnell is irritated anyway because of the candidates out there, the slow fundraising, the where's the money with the fundraising that is there, and the conflicting message rick scott has been putting out there. a couple months until election day, but this certainly is not going the way republicans, joe, thought it would or expected it would go. >> right. mika, a week is a lifetime in politics. it really is. i've seen things change so dramatically in came pai campaia week or less. my gosh, one of the first presidential campaigns i followed closely, the reagan campaign, one i suspect you and your family followed very closely, too. >> perhaps. >> on friday, jimmy carter and ronald reagan were tied.

on tuesday, something broke over the weekend. on tuesday, it went from being a deadlock, as it was most of the year, to just being a massive reagan victory. i say that only to say, if that can happen in four days, imagine what can happen in two months. we have a long way to go. right now, though, democrats outperforming history. we'll see if that holds up. let's begin with a key and fast-approaching deadline for the justice department following the fbi's search of former president donald trump's mar-a-lago home and club. the doj must decide by midnight tomorrow whether to accept judge cannon's ruling, approving the request by trump's attorneys for a special master to review the documents seized from his florida club last month. "the new york times" reports that justice department officials are expected to oppose the judge's decision, but the paper points out that any appeal

would be difficult, as the 11th circuit court of appeals is under a conservative majority. the consensus right now appears to be that judge cannon's ruling is more likely to delay than derail the investigation into trump's possession of highly classified documents belonging to the government. willie? meanwhile, former attorney general under president trump, bill barr, is at it again, speaking yesterday on fox news, saying he hopes the doj appeals judge cannon's ruling. barr also weighed in on whether he thinks the justice department ultimately will indict former president trump. >> the problem i have with the special master is what she's done on what's called executive privilege documents. and she didn't address the only question that's in dispute, which is, can the former president have standing to say that the investigators don't even get to look at the documents, the classified

documents that he wrongfully had add mar-a-lago. that's the only question. and she dodges it, then she says that she's bringing in a special master to look at whether stuff is executive privilege or not. that's not where the dispute is. i mean, if the government came today and said, "we'll stipulate, everything that is deliberative there, whether classified or not, would ordinarily be subject to executive privilege," it begs the question. that's not what the issue is. that's why i think that opinion was a mistake. >> think it'll be appealed and overruled? >> i hope it is appealed, yeah. >> do you have a view on how it ends? >> yeah. i think, you know, as i've said all along, there are two questions. will the government be able to make out a technical case? will they have evidence by which -- that they could indict somebody on, including him? that's the first question. and i think they're getting very close to that point, frankly. but i think at the end of the day, there is another question, do you indict a former president?

what will that do to the country? what precedent will that set? will the people understand that this is not failing to return a library book, that this was serious? you have to worry about those things. i hope that those kinds of factors will incline the administration not to indict him. i don't want to see him indicted as a former president. but i also think they'll be under pressure to indict him. look, if anyone else would have gotten indicted, why not indict him? >> joe, first of all, fascinating that bill barr has become the daily sort of in-house critic of donald trump on this issue, anyway, on fox news, given the way he performed and behaved during his time as attorney general under donald trump. but he asks the question, should not this man be indicted when anyone else on the planet would be? if he is, what are the implications of that? what are the implications for the country today but also for the next president and the president after that? >> yeah, i mean, given his performance as attorney general, which, for the most part, was

deplorable, i actually find myself saying that, actually, barr is asking the right questions. i think he's come to the correct conclusions. the special master decision was flawed. the opinion was wrong. it should be overruled. it will be overruled unless the courts decide to become even more politicized. the government can indict donald trump. they have a case to indict donald trump. then barr asks the question that certainly won't be popular among many watching this show, won't be popular among many democrats, but asks the question, should they indict him? of course, i made it very clear over the past several years, that we can't send the message out that one man is above the law. i look back at the standards. it's the same standard i used in the impeachment of bill clinton

on the grand jury. i asked what would happen if somebody lied in front of a federal grand jury. i came to the conclusion that they'd be indicted. they'd be charged. that's the question we have to ask, also, of donald trump. the standards have to be the same. at the same time, john heilemann, it is a bit horrifying to think about the consequences of this. and i say that, of all the terrible legacies that donald trump has left this nation, this may be one of the more long lasting. if he is indicted, as the law would suggest he should be indicted, then you can bet your bottom dollar that republicans will do everything they can, a republican administration, to indict the next democratic

predecessor that they have. you know, there is a reason why jerry ford got -- won his profile in courage, because he is willing to sacrifice a presidency to stop the long national nightmare that richard nixon was responsible for. over time, when people cooled down, they decided that was -- that was best for our republic. i think the extent of what donald trump has done is so egregious that no attorney general, no fair-minded attorney general would have any choice to indict him, but that doesn't also make it true that it will set, as barr was saying, an absolutely horrendous precedent. >> yeah. i mean, i think, joe, the question isn't so much -- not to mince words or to be too picky about words here. it doesn't set a terrible

precedent, in i think any democratic president in the future who has secret documents and -- >> right, john, but, unfortunately, that's not going to be the standard, is it? >> nope. >> the standard is going to be lowered. >> again, i'm not -- let me finish. i'm trying to say, like, i think that precedent is a fine precedent to set. do i think there's going to be the possibility that future administrations will use this as a pretext to indict future presidents for lesser crimes or no crime at all? yeah, i think that's the problem. it's not that it is setting the wrong precedent. it's, like, going to have a lot of unintended consequences if our politics continue down the path they're going now, where it is tit for tat and people use any excuse to take the next step. i fear for -- i fear that that is going to be -- is the door that's going to be opened here. yet, i can't believe, and i think you and i agree about this, i can't believe that you would want to set the other

precedent, which is, a president could leave office, steal a bunch of documents, take them off to their private home, including top secret documents -- >> foreign countries. >> nuclear materials of foreign countries, if that turns out to be true, and we let the president get away with that. you set a precedent in either case. >> exactly. >> the consequences of donald trump's actions going forward are terrible in both cases. but the question is, which precedent do you want to set? do you want the precedent where a president who has violated the law in this way is held accountable, or do you want to set the precedent where he is not accountable? the only conclusion you can come is, despite the possible political ramifications, the right implication, the right decision on that is going to be you can't let this go if he's done what it looks like he's done. you can't let it go without accountability. >> and i'm sure the discussions we're having right here have been had in the justice department for quite some time now. jonathan lemire, the other problem, of course, is as far

as -- and, of course, we're getting way ahead of ourselves here, but just responding to what barr said and raising the question barr raised, which is a legitimate question, the problem, of course, is that there have been a multitude of possible crimes donald trump has committed and that he's skated on, time and time again. you can go to manhattan, where you have two prosecutors, two professional prosecutors who are ready to indict donald trump and, suddenly, the manhattan d.a. goes soft, decides not to do it, gets scared, decides not to pursue that case. you have ten examples of obstruction in the mueller investigation. it's hard to get mueller to say absolutely anything. he just completely balks when he has an opportunity to at least come down and say whether or not donald trump committed a crime or not. the most anybody could get out of him was that these ten instances of obstruction did not

exonerate donald trump. he was not exonerated for his bad acts. well, thanks for nothing. and, of course, we have january 6th. any plain leading of the conspiracy to commit sedition shows that you don't have to connect too many more dots than the january 6th committee connected to show that donald trump was engaged in a conspiracy to commit sedition against the united states government. so, yes, this does leave merrick garland in a, i think, terrible position, where he is going to have no choice, ultimately, but to indict a former president of the united states. >> yeah. certainly, there's more legal peril than even this that trump faces. the ongoing matter in georgia, as well. we may be having this conversation in another venue down the road, where there may be criminal charges brought there if the case continues to proceed. but, you're right, joe, and

merrick garland has attorney general has bent over backwards to try not to be political. the white house has thrown up bright red lines between what they're doing and what doj is doing. they want nothing to do with main justice. garland, months ago, democrats frustrated with him because he wasn't moving after trump. now, it is happening, and now he is in a nearly impossible predicament. i go back to something that someone said to me a few weeks ago. it was the moment when garland signed off on that search to the fbi of mar-a-lago, when he gave the okay for the fbi to go there, that that was the moment that at least the possibility of a criminal charge of donald trump became into existence. up until then, they had kid gloves. they had given opportunity after opportunity to avoid this scenario, to avoid the ramifications and potential violence that could come with this, but trump didn't budge. they had to take the step. garland took a deep breath, i'm

told, and did this. do we know if they'll indict trump? we don't. but that was the moment, mika, that became a real possibility. we're through that fresh hold. >> i know willie is about to go through more excuses donald trump had for having these documents, but, joe, no matter what happens, it's going to be painful for the country. this entire episode has been painful for the country. we're going to have two former defense secretaries on today, going on to tell us about the letter they signed about the division and the polarization in this country that is at a dangerous, threatening level. we have election deniers being elected across the country into political positions, up and down ballot. of course, we have people in jail right now who testified that donald trump drove them to come to the capitol, to the united states capitol, to our house, and they desecrated it. they used american flags to beat cops, and they executed an insurrection on our election

process. it doesn't get a lot worse than that. it really doesn't. the question to indict or not to indict, if that's what the justice department is grappling with, it will be painful, but i just wonder of the consequences of not holding the law to every man and woman in this country. >> well, of course, we're talking about terrible precedents. at the end of the day, willie, though, the worst precedent is the justice department, is the united states government saying, no man is above the law unless he is a former president of the united states. it's just -- it's just not what the united states strives to be. justice is supposed to be equal under the law. that's the case even if you are a former president. it's garland's job to enforce the law, i guess, not to look to the history books or look to

political elections coming up in two months. >> and it is as clear-cut as that for a lot of people in this country. is one man above the law? even based on what we've seen publicly, it would appear, as william barr himself said, that there is enough there to indict. we will see. republicans continue to spin, to defend donald trump, make excuses for his mishandling of classified documents, more than mishandling, bringing them from the white house to mar-a-lago. on twitter yesterday, senator lindsey graham of south carolina blamed the justice department for not seizing the sensitive records sooner. writing this, quote, if they knew about this document for a whole year, why wait and raid the home 90 days before an election? if this was a new revelation previously unknown, they owe it to the public to be transparent about that fact. separate interviews yesterday, senators bill haggerty of tennessee and marco rubio of florida accused the fbi of conspiring with democrats and the media. here's what they said. >> i think it is very intentional. you see the leaks coming from

the fbi, moving straight to "the washington post." there's a political maneuver under place right now. i think this is about distracting from the reality of the economy that joe biden delivered, the collapsed southern border, the crime across america, the embarrassment that happened in afghanistan a year ago. this is about distracting the american public. >> doesn't seem like the kind of thing you should have in your post-presidential desk drawer. >> well, let's break this down. first of all, again, we really don't know. let's go back and understand that all of this information is coming from one side and one place. that is sources with knowledge of the investigation. who are the sources with knowledge of the investigation? the fbi and the justice department. they are leaking to the media. >> so leaking to the media, john heilemann, is the new defense, such that it is. marco rubio couple days ago said this was a mere storage issue. the documents -- >> how do they do it? >> -- the president is alleged to have taken from the white

house was stored poorly or incorrectly, perhaps. going back to lindsey graham, john, the idea they just kicked down the door of the fbi, all of a sudden, flies in the face of everything we know and that lindsey graham knows. the national archives spent about a year and a half trying to politely get these documents back before they got some back. trump's lawyers lied about giving them all back. the fbi needed a legal search warrant it executed a couple weeks ago. >> here's the republican strategy on all this, "look at the bird! look at the bird. no, look at the squirrel." you talk about "the washington post," the fbi, leaking, talk about this, talk about that. all of it is still -- you talk about whether there is a political conspiracy. what's the timing with the relation to the midterm elections? all of it just -- anything they can do to obscure, to distract from the fundamental question, which is, did donald trump break the law or not? as mika raised many times, he's not denied he took the

documents. >> yeah. >> as all of us raised over the last three weeks, we still don't know why. again, it looks increasingly like -- we have not seen the document, don't have proof, but "the washington post" reported repeatedly that at least one of the documents pertains to a nuclear weapon in a. [speaking non-english] -- in a foreign country. is lindsey graham pretending there is an effort? there's always leaking in washington. the point is did the president break a serious law here or not? if he broke it, to get to joe's question, should he, given the evidence, be indicted or not? everything else is just distraction and an attempt to get us to look at the bird, look at the squirrel, and not focus on what we need to focus on here. >> by the way, i'd love a search on how many times marco rubio complained and wined about the fbi office in new york leaking

bad information about hillary clinton for a year and a half. >> right. >> during her presidential campaign. because it was a steady stream of leaks out of the fbi about the server, the laptop, the clinton foundation. it went on and on and came out of the new york office daily. please, for people to be shocked this happens, this is what -- this just has been happening. it's what the cia did to bush on weapons of mass destruction. it's what the intel community -- i mean, there are human beings inside the intel community, and this is what they have done for years. they did it unmercifully to bill clinton, unmercifully to barack obama and, yeah, they did it to donald trump, as well. i do want to say, as far as look at the bird, look at the bird, trying to distraction, john heilemann, i'll tell people now, i've been talking about a text i get from somebody who texted me the morning that republicans were warned by trump, trump people, that it was going to be

much worse than they thought. maybe they should just sort of temper their remarks. that morning when we reported on it, when i got off the air, you texted me and said, "have you seen the new, like, conspiracy theory they are putting in place, of the donald trump story?" i go, "what are you talking about?" you told me about how republicans were starting to, because they couldn't defend trump, they knew that bad news one coming, that at least for that moment, they made up a lie about irs agents carrying ar-15s, kicking down doors. as one fox news host said, killing people, killing americans. as one of the most senior republicans said, knocking on doors of kansas residents with ar-15s. that was made up one morning when they couldn't talk in

shocked tones about what donald trump had done because they'd just received word inside trump world that this was going to be bad. >> yeah. >> hmm. >> i mean, if you watch right-wing media, if you watch fox news and the rest, those even further to the right, if you watch them -- and i don't suggest anyone do this, it'd be bad for your mental health and sometimes your ocular nerve -- but if you do it, it is an incredibly cooperative operation. as the talking points go out, you see what they'll be for the day. that day, in particular, it was interesting to watch. no one had been talking about the irs, then the trump people said, stop attacking the fbi. things are going to get bad. that day, like a tidal wave of coordinated, singing the same song book across right-wing media, it was suddenly about the irs. it went from fox news to

newsmax, up to capitol hill, where suddenly you had people like chuck grassley talking about the jack-booted stormtroopers of the irs are going to break into people with passthrough income, holding ak-47s and ar-15s. now, you don't hear about it again. that was 48 hours of intense irs, that's all they talked about. now, no one is talking about that. instead, the talking point of yesterday was, it's all the collusion between the fbi and the law enforcement sources and "the washington post." it's a direct line. it is a leak. leak was the word of the day yesterday. focus on the leak. it'll be new tomorrow, and nothing will be on point, which is, did donald trump break the law? should he be indicted? >> one last point as we watch marco rubio trying to explain this away. he is the ranking member on the senate intelligence community. the ranking republican member, showing no concern or even cure

curiosity about an american president taking boxes and boxes of classified, top-secret documents with him to his beach club. >> how do they do it? i'll never understand. still ahead on "morning joe," more from the unveiling ceremony at the white house yesterday, where the official portraits of barack and michelle obama were finally unveiled. plus, senate republicans had more than $181 million in the bank in july. by august, most of it was gone. what the head of the national republican senatorial committee, senator rick scott, is saying about the money concerns ahead of the midterms. also ahead, the latest from ukraine, as the united states accuses russia of a war crime. arguing moscow is forcibly deporting hundreds of thousands of ukrainians. and we'll be joined by a pair of former defense secretaries. leon panetta and chuck hagel

will both be our guests this morning, joe. speaking of secretaries, some breaking news. the "ap" reporting u.s. secretary of state anony blinken has made an unannounced, surprise visit to kyiv in a show of support for ukraine as russia's war grinds on. >> all right. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. lily! welcome to our third bark-ery. oh, i can tell business is going through the “woof”.

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32 past the hour. police in memphis, tennessee, arrested a man after a shooting spree left four people dead and three others injured yesterday. in the 19-year-old suspect was taken into custody last night hours after police sent out an alert warning people to stay inside while they searched the city. police say at least one of the shootings was streamed on facebook live. a spokesperson for facebook's parent company says they flagged and removed the stream before police sent out their alert. court records show the suspect was released from prison this year after serving three years for aggravated assault. he is charged with first degree murder in connection with yesterday's shootings. willie. a public official in las vegas has been arrested on suspicion of killing a renowned investigative journalist in the city. jeff german, a reporter at the "las vegas review journal" was

stabbed to death outside his home last week. yesterday, police arrested robert telles, the clark county public administraor that came after an hours' long standoff at telles' home. he has been the subject of investigative pieces written by german and recently lost his primary in the wake of their publication. police may receive a possible motive this morning. the clark county d.a. telling the "journal," telles is facing murder charges. nbc news reached out to telles for comment. he is scheduled to appear in court this afternoon, mika. canadian police say mass stabbing suspect miles sanderson died after going into medical distress following his arrest yesterday. the second suspect, his brother, damien, was found dead a day after the attacks with injuries not believed to be self-inflicted. ten people were killed and 18 others injured in the sunday

rampage in saskatchewan, spanning 13 crime scenes. all but one of the victims are from the indigenous community. the james smith nation. there is not a motive for the stabbings. coming up, new polling on a pair of major issues that could tip the scale for democrats in november. plus, secretary of the air force is standing by. he joins us as the military prepares to mark its 75th anniversary. "morning joe" will be right back.

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♪♪ beautiful shot of new york city. welcome back to "morning joe" at 38 past the hour. a significant milestone for the

u.s. air force this month as it marks its 75th anniversary. the air force says its theme for this very significant year is, quote, innovate, accelerate, thrive. joining us now, secretary of the air force, frank kendall. very good to have you on the show with us this morning. let's start with what perhaps you might say is the most significant challenge for the air force as it moves into the future. >> our most significant challenge, and the reason i came back into government after being out for a few years, was the competition for superiority that we have with china. >> mm-hmm. >> i became alarmed about this in 2010 when i came back in the government and saw china had been investing very heavily in the means to defeat the u.s.'s ability to protect power in the western pacific. so we are in a race for technological superiority against as formidable competitive as i've ever seen, frankly. >> another challenge facing the air force and all the branches

of the military right now is recruitment. >> yes. >> there are fewer americans who seem to want to enlist. i'm sure you got a little of the public relations boost when "top gun" came out. willie geist was considering signing up himself. how much of a challenge is this, and what outreach are you going to convince young americans to serve their country, particularly in the air force? >> we're going to meet our recruiting goals in the active air force. we're a little force in the guard and reserves. we're in the doing terribly badly. we are paying a lot of attention to this. one thing that's changed is the propensity to serve by americans has gone down. during the covid period, our recruiters couldn't get into high schools to interact with people. we're back in the schools. we're increasing the effort, putting in recruiting across the board. we're mobilizing the air force for everyone is a recruiter. we're offering things like bonuses and retention bonuses, as well, signing bonuses and retention bonuses to encourage people to come in and stay in. >> joe. >> mr. secretary, you talk about

the great strategic challenge coming from china. what does the air force need as you go into 2023 and forward, what does the air force need to maintain america's competitive edge against a rising china? >> i supervise both the air force and space force. i have to worry about the monetization programs for both. in the first 30 years ago, the u.s. demonstrated a dramatic superiority in conventional military power. china paid a lot of attention to that, and they've been working very hard on specific things to try to defeat the united states. at least in their region of the world, ever since. we have basically been engaged for the last 20 years in counterterrorism and counterinsurgency campaigns. we have to modernize thoughtfully, take the technology available today and put it into capability for our men and women in uniform. that's one of the reasons i came back to government, the primary reason. we spent the last year

identifying the specific things we need to do to do that. now, we're in the process of resourcing those and getting those into our budget. >> good morning, mr. secretary. jonathan said i was going to sign up for the navy, and i was going to say, well, i'm too old for that, but tom cruise is 60 and looks good in the cockpit. >> the air force. >> as you look around the world, where are the other emerging threats that people don't think about, or the average american doesn't think about, what are you thinking about as you plan not just for today but over the horizon, as well? >> we generally consider china to be the pacing challenge. we're worried about russia, of course. they demonstrated their capacity for aggression. they're an acute threat, as well. other parts of the world where we've had concerns, iran, obviously. north korea. violent extremist groups haven't gone away, so we have to deal with them. we have a lot of problems to man j a, but our strategic competitor comes back to china. >> curious, as recruitment, you say at this point is fairly

successful, what you make of the letter that some former defense secretaries have signed onto, expressing concern about partisan politics, even pervading the military. >> i'm aware of the letter. haven't had a chance to read it, but i know most of the people who signed it. one of the things i've admired about our military, and i spent most of my time either in uniform or as a public servant in the military, is that it is apolitical. >> right. >> i've been through a number of transitions of administrations. they're done seamlessly. senior leaders in the military, the entire chain of command takes an oath to support and defend the constitution. all the leaders i've been approached, involved with on the civilian side who provide civilian control of the military have been very dedicated to being apolitical. that's been the tradition. i think what the people signed that letter are concerned about are that that might be, in some respects, changing. i don't see evidence of that. i see a military that is very

loyal, very committed to defending the country, and very professional. >> congratulations, secretary, on your restraint. i've heard two references to "top gun" and you haven't trash talked the navy at all. would you like to tell the people why the air force is superior to the navy and give four, five reasons why that is? >> i'm not going to knock my sister service. i came out of the army, and i get a lot of ribbing for that from some of my west point classmates. >> i bet. >> we did get an air force recruiting commercial into the beginning of the "top gun" movie. flying fighter planes is flying fighter planes. air force has more of them than the navy does. >> we got it in. secretary of the air force, frank kendall, we want to thank you for your service to america. >> very much. >> from west point forward. your service in uniform and your service to america now. thank you so much for being with us, mr. secretary. still ahead, former secretary of state hillary clinton shares her experience with handling classified

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sun is up over the white house at 6:49 this thursday morning. senate nominee john fetterman agreed to a single debate with his republican opponent, mehmet oz. the announcement comes after weeks of mounting pressure from oz's campaign, which has questioned whether fetterman is using his recent stroke as an excuse, they say, to avoid a public face-off. fetterman says the debate likely will take place in october. john heilemann, there will be one debate at least in this key

senate race. even the "pittsburgh gazette" had an op-ed, saying of fetterman, if he is not well enough to debate in public once or at all, it does raise questions about his ability to serve as a senator. this question is certainly out there, fetterman's health and the race. >> willie, i've been hearing about it from democrats. worried democrats for the last couple months, you know, on the down low. people have been worried about the question of how rapidly fetterman's recovering. he's done a lot of video, where he sent out messages by video, but not done a lot of -- maybe not any -- i don't want to say there's been zero, but limited exposure to live interviews on cameras. democrats have been concerned. they can see that oz, who has been imploding left, right, all over the place, every day, another explosion in the oz campaign, that this is a prime opportunity for democrats to steal a senate seat away that was held by republicans.

a net pickup here, right? oz, terrible candidate. fetterman, in good health, a very strong candidate. the question has been, how is his recovery going? mehmet oz has come out to try to rehabilitate his unraveling, melting down campaign, and raised this issue in a clumsy, insensitive way, but it has been effective in the sense it's forced the media to talk about it. it put fetterman for the first time in a long time on defense. he's now said he'll do this one debate. if that continues to be his posture, which, you know, people of pennsylvania deserve one debate at least between these two, it'll put an extraordinary amount of pressure on the debate, on both candidates, when that day comes. the last month of the campaign. >> that's one to watch. senator rick scott of florida is defending his role as chairman of the republican party's campaign arm amid the group burning through a

fundraising haul at a rapid rate. in an interview yesterday, fox news, scott said the national republican senatorial committee has already spent more than 95% of the $180 million it has raised. take a listen. >> how did that happen? where did all the money go? >> well, we did the right thing. we spent early. here's the problem with campaigns, if you wait until the last month, i mean, there's too much static. there's too many noise. >> a lot of the races are tightening up in florida, in ohio, and these candidates are in need of money at this point. some of them are pointing fingers at your leadership and saying that it is not working. what do you say to them? >> look at the numbers. we're going to keep the hardest races to keep. ron johnson is going to win. >> behind by 5 points right now, right?

>> yeah. so ron johnson is either tied or up a little bit or down barely. >> joe, rick scott has had a tough couple of months. earlier in the spring when the biden administration was really flagging, before their run of success legislatively, they pointed to rick scott as a lifeline. his plan to cut social security, raise taxes, was the one thing they could point to as an effective contrast between what dems are offering this fall and republicans. things obviously improved for democrats. that was strike one for rick scott. strike two, this, the fundraising haul. strike three, oh, boy, tension with mitch mcconnell. the two men could barely look at each other. it is clear mcconnell, we know he blames trump, blaming rick scott, too, for minority leader versus majority leader. >> donald trump and rick scott have taken what should be an incredible republican cycle in the united states senate and

botched it. donald trump by endorsing -- really, it is almost as if democratic operative was whispering in his ear, saying, "pick oz in ohio. pick butters -- or pick butters in ohio. pick oz in pennsylvania. pick masters in arizona. pick budd in north carolina." time and time again, everybody he has picked has been disastrous. mitch mcconnell has good reason to be upset with him. the bigger problem, though, even bigger problem than the money, john heilemann, i'll go back to it, we know how campaigns run. in the last week of the campaign, seniors are going to hear people in charge of the candidates' message is a guy saying, "don't cut social security and medicare, end social security and medicare in five years. sunset it and make people come and justify the restarting of those programs after five years.

kill it after five years, then debate whether it should start back up again. and, again, protect tax cuts for billionaires, for hedge fund managers, for multinational dorp corporations, but make working class americans pay higher taxes. "it is really bizarre. he seems to be working, again, for the left. >> it's kind of a rule of thumb if you think about wave elections, joe. go back to 2018 with democrats. who was the head of the ddccc that year? no one can tell me. their job is to direct resources, not to make headlines and become the idealogical, polarizing person, the new face for the party. let the candidate run their races, right? it was true in 2014 with republicans, too. the person who runs the campaign committee is supposed to be a tactician and an engineer, a fundraiser, not someone putting out policy pronouncements. not someone becoming the

idealogical poster boy for the party, especially idealogical poster boy who is in favor of unpopular positions that allow him to be made into a pinata that hurts the party's chances rather than helps. yeah, rick scott has been a disaster thus far. as you said earlier today, joe, mika's lifetime in politics, still 60 days before the midterms, but, i'll tell ya, rick scott's performance has not been what you want to see. i'll tell you who most agrees with that assessment and why i feel so strongly about it, because on this rare, one moment, mitch mcconnell and i in total agreement. >> wow. wait, can we -- >> lock step. heilemann and mcconnell. >> wow. coming up, strategist steve bannon is expected to turn himself into authorities in new york this morning. what his criminal defense lawyer is saying about expected charges. and -- >> plus -- >> -- how many shirts will he be wearing? two in the last arrest.

>> it is warm out. >> what is the over/under in shirts today? >> 3.5. >> not something i like to think about. >> i think you have to put it at 2.5. let people guess. is it going to be 2 or 3? >> maybe two shirts and a tank. >> i always take the over on bannon's shirts and usually win. >> smart play. >> yeah. democrats have had a number of recent wins they can tout ahead of november. "the new york times" argues the party's approach to covid should be one of them. he joins us to explain that. and a long streak for american men comes to an end at the u.s. open. another incredible day at flushing meadows. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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it's not like they were in a vault. they were in a storage room where people go in and out, getting umbrellas for the pool or something else.

so i think that we have to -- we have to wait and we have to -- we have to have, i think, two minds about this. no one is above the law. and the rule of law in a democracy -- [ applause ] -- you know, has to be our standard. but we should not rush to judgment. >> right. >> we should take it seriously. we should be concerned about it. and we should follow the facts and the evidence. >> right. >> former secretary of state hillary clinton on how the government should approach the criminal investigation into donald trump's mishandling of classified documents. welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, september 8th. it's just the top of the hour right now. we have with us msnbc contributor mike barnicle and member of "the new york times" editorial board, mara gay. good to have you all with us this morning. the justice department must decide by midnight tomorrow

whether to accept judge cannon's ruling, approing the request by trump's attorneys for a special master to review the documents seized from his florida club last month. "the new york times" reports justice department officials are expected to oppose the judge's decision, but the paper points out that any appeal would be difficult, as the 11th circuit court of appeals is under a conservative majority. meanwhile, former attorney general under president trump, bill barr, told fox news yesterday he hopes the doj appeals judge cannon's ruling. >> the problem i have with the special master is what she's done on what's called executive privilege documents. she didn't address the only question that's in dispute, which is, can the former president have standing to say that the investigators don't even get to look at the documents, the classified

documents that he wrongfully had at mar-a-lago. that's the only question. she dodges it, then she says that she's bringing in a special master to look at whether stuff is executive privilege or not. that's not where the dispute is. i mean, if the government came today and said, "we'll stipulate, everything that is deliberative there, whether classified or not, would ordinarily be subject to executive privilege," it begs the question. that's not what the issue is. that's why you think that opinion was a mistake. >> you think it'll be appealed and overruled? >> i hope it is overruled, yeah. >> do you have a view on how it ends? >> yeah. i think, as i said all along, there are two questions, will the government be able to make it a technical case? will they have evidence they could indict somebody on, including him? that's the first question. i think they're getting very close to that point, frankly. but i think at the end of the day, there is another question, do you indict a former president? what will that do to the

country? what precedent will that set? will the people really understand that this is not, you know, failing to return a library book, that this was serious? you have to worry about those things. i hope those kinds of factors will incline the administration not to indict him. because i don't want to see him indicted as a former president. but i also think they'll be under a lot of pressure to indict him. one question, look, if anyone else would have gotten indicted, why not indict him? >> goes back to that question raised a minute ago by hillary clinton, is any man above the law? hillary clinton, as we mentioned, we on "the view" yesterday, where she described the protocol for handling sensitive information. >> there were times when i was secretary of state that literally a military courier would come into my office. it'd be an emergency. there wouldn't be time to get to the white house and have a meeting in what's called a skiff, a secured facility. usually a man, it was always a man, as i remember, walked in. he would have, like, a briefcase

locked to his wrist. he would come into my office and would say, "you have to look at this immediately, secretary." he would unlock the briefcase, he'd stand there, give me this document that had really delicate, secret information about something of importance. i would read it, i'd sign i had read it, it'd go back into the locked box, attached to his wrist and off he would go. so i don't understand how these documents ended up where they are. >> yeah. >> i don't understand how he was permitted to take them, even to the residence, let alone a country club in florida. i don't understand it. >> joe, there's hillary clinton laying out, of course, she had the server in her house, and that was the focus of the 2016 campaign while she was secretary of state. a state department investigation under president trump, donald

trump's state department did find she had not deliberately mishandled classified information. but she is making it clear there that there's just no plausible explanation for lifting boxes and boxes of classified, some of the top secret material from the white house and putting them at your beach resort. >> yeah, absolutely none. and the process is a process that a former secretary of state would know. you'd also know as a united states senator. i think it's something that john heilemann brought up earlier. if you want to talk about just how distressing republicans' reaction is to donald trump taking top secret, the most highly classified documents that the united states has, taking them down to his beach resort. the fact you have marco rubio, who is now the top republican on the senate intel committee saying, "oh, it was just a storage issue," when marco knows

differently. everything hillary clinton just said there, marco knows. he knows that's how top secret, classified information is handled. he knows it. lindsey knows it. all the republicans that are out there defending what donald trump did, that would -- i want to say it again, if marco rubio had done this, he would already be in jail. if lindsey graham had done this, they'd already be in jail or pled out already. this is such a heinous violation. the department of justice is only holding back because donald trump is a forer president. it's the only explanation. i've always said, for my years on the armed services committee, i understood, like, the importance of classiied briefings and how i needed to keep my mouth shut and not tell anyone. not tell anyone once i walked outside of that room. because everybody understands

that. marco rubio understands that. lindsey graham understands that. yet, mara gay, they continue to put a failed president, a failed reality tv show host, ahead of america's most sensitive secrets. >> that's right, joe. the diminishing of what potentially was a crime here is already disturbing. it is already happening. we see people making light of it who are in trump's orbit or former orbit. they're making their rounds right now, trying to convince the american people it is just not that big of a deal. you know, that also puts pressure on the authorities not to go forward with a prosecution. i think we need to start talking a lot more about the cost of not prosecuting if there is a crime that needs to be prosecuted. because if we don't hold a president accountable, then what we're sending the message -- the message that we're sending,

obviously, is that this is not a democracy. this is actually a land where the president of the united states is above the law and gets to do whatever he or she wants to. you know, it's funny, because i sent my 5-year-old goddaughter off to school, to kindergarten for the first time last weekend, and she literally asked me, she said, "tia mara, why does donald trump need so many lawyers?" then she said, "what is the difference between a king and a president?" i said, "you cannot send a king to jail. yeah. we're going to find out if donald trump is above the law. >> we're not arguing whether or not he took documents that don't belong to him. donald trump doesn't deny that, he took them. day by day, we figure out what the documents are. it appears to get a little bit worse every time something is revealed. so the question may not be what to do, it may be how to do it.

because i don't know how this country moves forward without some sort of consequence to taking national security secrets, removing documents from the white house and bringing them to a club, especially from a president with loose lips who has openly said he would work with foreign nations to hurt a political rival. these are all things on the record. joining us now, former secretary of defense and former director of the cia, leon panetta. very good to have you on the show. your first question comes from mike barnicle. mike? >> mr. secretary, last week, a federal judge in florida ruled that there's going to be perhaps a special master to overlook all of the documents that have been found by the fbi and president trump's, former president trump's house at mar-a-lago in florida. my question to you, given the contents that we've been told

are part of those documents, what would a special -- who would the special master be? to be looking at highly classified documents, who could do that? >> well, i think that's part of the problem with the decision. i agree with former attorney general barr, that it's a bad decision. needs to be appealed. i think the justice department will do that. because the reality is, if you are dealing with top secret, secret classifications on documents, i don't know what kind of master you'd have to appoint in order to be able to have somebody who has the clearances necessary to make these decisions. in the end, it is the government's responsibility to look at these documents and determine how they are to be maintained. that, i think, is the issue at

stake here. >> mr. secretary, good morning. it is willie geist. as someone who was the head of the defense department and ran the cia and spent so much of his life protecting the united states of america, what is your reaction, first of all, just to seeing the sheer volume of documents discovered by the fbi at mar-a-lago, and then the classification of those documents? >> look, this is a very serious matter. i think the american people need to understand how serious it is. because it involves our national security. >> right. >> the reason we classify documents is in order to protect our national security and make sure that our adversaries or enemies are not going to get access to our most important secrets. and so that's why we provide the classification. that's why we provide the process of protecting those documents.

that's why everyone who is involved with secret and top secret documents knows there is a procedure to follow, in order to make sure we don't jeopardize our national security. and to have a situation where these most sensitive documents have been thrown into a box and brought to a country club in florida, where there's a very good chance our most important secrets could have been compromised as a result of that, i think this is a serious matter. ultimately, this investigation, as it proceeds, has to determine who is going to be held accountable. >> mr. secretary, legendary general and, of course, secretary himself, george marshall bragged about the fact that he never voted once in an election in his life. something that didn't make harry truman very happy. he said that his father -- he bragged his father has never

voted in an election because he was apolitical. he was a soldier. things have changed dramatically, of course, since george marshall's time, harry truman's time. you know it better than anybody. we live in a politically divided country. the recruits that we draw from to serve proudly in the armed forces are on social media that is hyper politicized. the challenge is, how do we get them to come, serve their country proudly, and understand that when they put on the uniform, the politics remains outside the door? >> well, joe, you're right. you know, the lines have blurred, particularly over these last four years, with regards to the civilian military relationship and what is expected of the military and what is expected of those that

lead the military. that's why we came together, secretaries and former chairmen of the joint chiefs of staff, to try to establish standards and principles that have always been in place but that were pretty much rejected over these last four years. we've got to get back to the basics. you're in the military. you are committed to defending the country. you're committed to protecting this country. that's your primary role. you're not entitled to simply engage in politics, political discussion, because that constitutional right, frankly, is not provided to those that defend the country and serve this country. their primary role is to protect our national security. we've got to get back to that critical standard because, otherwise, what you have is a slow deterioration of the discipline that is absolutely

critical to having a strong military force. >> more from the letter which decries the extremely adverse political climate right now and warns that civilian military relations are under extreme strain, stating, in part, quote, geopolitically, the winding down of the wars in iraq and afghanistan and the ramping up of great power conflict mean the u.s. military must simultaneously come to terms with wars that ended without all the goas satisfactorily ended. socially, the pandemic and economic dislocations have disrupted societal patterns and put enormous strain on individuals and families. politically, military professionals confront an extremely adverse environment, characterized by the

divisiveness of affective polarization that culminated in the first election in over a century. when the peaceful transfer of political power was disrupted and in doubt. looking ahead, all of these factors could well get worse before they get better. mr. secretary, if you could develop on that point, what are the risks that we're looking at here if something isn't done, and what is it that needs to be done? >> well, it goes to the heart of our concern about the survival of our democracy. january 6th was a wake-up call. that our democracy is fragile. it wouldn't take much to bring down a system of government that we all cherish in this country. we all have a responsibility to protect. so the polarization that we see

that is kind of politically dividing the country is being reflected, as well, in the military and how the civilian military relationship has played out. in the last four years, president trump basically used the military as his own security force. he wanted to deploy them to the border. he wanted to deploy them against protesters. he wanted to -- i mean, he was urged to actually take over the military during the time following the election. all dangerous, dangerous steps that would undermine the civilian/military relationship that is critical to the operation of our national security. it's for all of those reasons that we felt it was critical to come together and establish, reestablish the standards, the best practices of how we are to operate in a civilian/military

relationship that is the bedrock of our democracy. but that has been blurred and weakened over these last number of years. that is something that is as critical to our national security as maintaining a strong defense force. >> mr. secretary, because of what you've seen, how long you've served this country, i want to ask you a very general question. you talk about a 30,000 foot question. i think viewers need your input on this. day in and day out, we hear about the failings. i remember my seventh grade teacher telling me the united states was going to go the way of the roman empire. you know, we were in the middle of vietnam, the middle of watergate. i must say, the assessment for many hasn't gotten better since then. yet, at least by by vantage point, we are economically the

envy of the world, even with our challenges. militarily, we have a military that's second to none. our soft power still far exceeds anybody else's soft power. the totalitarian, authoritarian countries we keep hearing are going to overtake it continue to stumble and get in their own way. i'm wondering there 2022, what is the state of the united states, and it is a big exclusion, other than our calcified political system? >> joe, i think this country in 2022 can go one of -- take one of two paths into the future. i honestly believe america could be an america in renaissance in the 21st centur we have a strong economy. we have a creative and

innovative economy that is very strong in terms of its particulars. we can provide the training that young people need in order to embrace these new technologies that are coming about. we can actually come together and govern our country. exercise leadership in a difficult world. we could be a america in renaissance. we could also be a america in decline. if we allow our fears, hates, frustrations to divide us and turn us against one another, i think there is a very good chance we could follow the path of past empires. we could lose our democracy. what is going to be the key to what path we take? it is the quality of leadership we elect in this country. if we have leadership willing to take the risks associated with leadership. and make no mistake about it, you want to lead in a democracy, you have to take risks.

you're going to have to do what is right for the country, not just right for your party or for yourself, but for the country. if we have that leadership, i am very confident that we can have an american renaissance. >> former secretary of defense and cia director, leon panetta, thank you very much for joining us this morning. >> thank you. >> good to be with you. >> good to be with you, as well. ahead in our fourth hour, we're going to speak with another former secretary of defense, chuck hagel will join us. also ahead, in just over about 90 minutes, steve bannon will turn himself in to new york police. we'll go live outside the courthouse for that. and later, an nbc news exclusive interview with reality winner, the ex-nsa translator who was arrested in 2017 for leaking one classified document. her first reaction to the thousands of documents found at

mar-a-lago. plus, breaking news this morning. secretary of state antony blinken has arrived in ukraine. his visit comes as the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. accuses russia of war crimes, alleging they are forcibly deporting ukrainian citizens into russia. we have the heartbreaking story of one woman searching for her husband after russian troops forcibly removed him from their home. and up next, a new poll reveals which party voters think was better at handling the covid pandemic, and how that could play into the midterm elections. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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look, i know the last year, few years have been tough, but, today, covid no longer controls our lives. more americans are working than ever. businesses are growing. our schools are open. millions of americans have been lifted out of poverty. america is about to take off. i hope you see it, as well. just look around. i believe we can lift america from the depths of covid. i made a bet on you, the american people, and that bet is paying off. proving that from darkness, the darkness of charlottesville, of covid, gun violence, of insurrection, we can see the light. >> that was president biden one week ago in philadelphia. joining us, senior writer for "the new york times," david leonrardt. it is fair to say that democrats have a lot to work with in the

run-up to the midterms. they have wins on the table they can talk about. they have the obvious looming criminal investigation of former president trump. they have january 6th. they have lots of different options. the question is how to sympathize it all into a coherent and powerful message. >> well, and really, before i read this article yesterday and looked at this poll, i must say, david, like this people, i thought that covid played against democrats with swing voters. we certainly know parents were angry that their children were kept out of schools. you had a lot of democratic candidates pay for that. i saw polls out of miami-dade county that showed in the 2020 election, the so-called shutdown of the country because of covid actually hurt democratic candidates. so i thought that covid was just

an issue democrats were going to have deal with. they'd acted responsibly, for the most part, and a lot of americans just didn't care. then i saw the poll, read your article, and i must say, really surprised me. >> thanks, joe. we like to surprise people. give new information, right? i mean, look, i agree with you. there have been excesses on the left with covid. you mentioned a couple of them. liberal communities were much more likely to keep thinker schools closed for months. we know, in hindsight, that harmed kids. liberal activists have sometimes exaggerated the effect of mask mandates, which just don't seem to work that well. mandates. masks work, but mandates don't work well, unless you really get people to follow them, which you're not getting americans to do for three years. what's interesting here is president biden, for all his political imperfections, and he certainly has many, is pretty

good at understanding when the democratic party is getting out to the left of the american people. he's done that here. so he isn't telling people to still be wearing masks. in fact, he explicitly said, you can take off your masks. what you have is now an administration saying, "go get your shots. get on with your lives," as people heard him say in the clip. that contrasts the republican message, which is incredibly anti-science, questioning the vaccines. i think that's why you see democrats having an advantage on this issue. >> david, let's look through some of the numbers from morning consult you write about in the piece. survey shows voters preferred the way democrats handled the pandemic by 13 points over republicans. 23% said they didn't know or didn't have an opinion. when broken down by age, data shows americans above 65 preferred democrats' handling of covid by 20 points. broken down by political ideology, moderates say democrats handled covid better than republicans.

49% to 21%. i'm curious how this may vary by state, too, david, as you look through this. governor desantis in florida is leaning into the way he handled the pandemic. all his ads in the re-election campaign has an ad where floridians who run businesses or kids who went back to school thank him for not following some of the restrictions we saw in other states. >> look, i'm sure it'll vary by state. northern virginia, that's a place where you really do still have significant frustration about how long schools were closed. you have that in some other parts of the country, as well. but i think on the whole, this is going to benefit democrats. it's on the margins, right? first of all, many americans have kind of moved on. covid is not dominating their lives. i don't think there are have many voters out there who have covid the top of their mind. but the important thing here is that it fits this larger pattern, that on abortion, on january 6th, on covid, we see

significantly more swing voters saying, i like the democratic approach than saying i like the republican approach. that doesn't mean this is going to be a great midterms for democrats, but it does help explain why a midterm that should have been great for republicans, they're the out party, many are unhappy with the economy, a midterm that should have been great for the republicans is now looking a lot more complicated. >> yeah. if you're in new york city today, you don't have to wear masks if you're using mass transit. i'm sure quite a few people would cheer. i would say my wife would not be one of them because she is still wisely wearing masks on planes, which gets to my next point. which gets to my next point. i say wisely. i wouldn't have said that two, three, four weeks ago. glad we have mara here that can talk about the impact covid had on her life. mark barnacle, you have recently fought covid.

i will tell you, this summer, i've had more people, more friends not wearing masks, of course, most of us aren't wearing masks anymore, come down with a horrible case of covid, which hasn't killed anybody but knocked them down for two or three weeks. who knows about the long effect of covid. i do wonder when i look at the poll numbers whether they moved a bit because, while nobody was paying attention, so many people got covid this summer and, man, it really knocked a lot of my good friends down. >> yeah. it has, joe. there's no doubt about it. some of my friends, as well. as you indicated, i got covid. it was no problem. but i got a kickback on covid with a slight case of pneumonia, which is a larger problem than covid, or could be, but not with me thankfully. but the point is, i think the country is dealing with covid now as if it is the flu. we have all sorts of medications

we didn't have a couple years ago. david, the interest i have in this story is perpetual, given the fact it is going to be with us for a long time, but the underpinnings of this story, joe mentioned it and you just eluded to it, using a few numbers from the poll, and i would submit maybe it is the most undercovered aspect of covid by both the print and electronic media not covering it. by "it," i mean the millions of children and the millions of households who have been stripped of two years of education, socialization, and it is an incomparable loss, one difficult to measure, but it is out there. you can find it no matter where you are in talking to parents of school-aged children. why -- first of all, do you think it is undercovered? secondly, where do we go from here on that issue? >> it is undercovered. it is deeply alarming. it is unequal, the data make

clear the largest learning losses have accrued to lower income kids, black and latino kids. i'm confident there have been larger learning losses among kids with learning disabilities. so it really is -- we overuse this phrase -- but it is a national crisis. like a lot of these slow-moving crises, it is hard to cover because there's not a new piece of news every day. the pandemic rescue bill included a lot of money for catchup. i'm skrept skeptical how well that money is being used. it is important to remember, this generation of kids, this will be a lifelong problem. this country, essentially, has a decades' long debt to anyone under the age of 20 today. because we disrupted their schooling in a way that none of us experienced. that really is going to have long-term consequences. we essentially owe those kids.

>> yeah. mara, let's go to you now. as somebody who had covid early, had really consequential impact on you and your life, i'm curious, your thoughts about, well, people like me saying, i don't want to wear masks on planes. i'm tired of wearing masks, which i am. i do get a lecture from mika, put on a mask. >> yes, you do. >> after the summer, i may put on a mask on planes. but we have let our guard down. a lot of people, again, have gotten sick. what, 1,000 people some days are dying from covid. >> i think it is an important moment to recognize, everybody is weary, but the impact has not been equal across the american population or the world. so i just want to say, you know, a virus does not a pandemic make. what makes this a pandemic is the fact that 1,000 americans

are still dying from this virus. it is not the flu. also, many, many more, unfortunately, are coming down with symptoms of long covid, which has become endemic. anybody is susceptible. it is a much larger problem we're really not addressing with any kind of urgency. so as long as that's the case, as long as we actually don't have the treatment and the medication to truly make this something that is closer to a cold, and we're not there yet, which is what we're not really kind of acknowledging, this is still a serious situation. so i actually understand why it can be freeing to not wear a mask on a plane or a train, on the subway. that's fine. but i think we just need to acknowledge that there are still people and communities for whom this is an everyday fact of life that they have to think about. masking remains an act of solidarity and respect for

vulnerable people, that includes people with disabilities, with chronic conditions like asthma, as well as for hard-hit communities like native and black communities especially, hispanic communities that have been hit especially hard by this virus. so we need more urgency around treatment for long covid. we need more urgency around respect for vulnerable communities. it just doesn't cost me that much to put on a mask for someone else. >> absolutely. senior writer -- >> i think -- >> go ahead, joe. >> i think it is such an important point. you know, my parents both died before covid. both very conservative people. both had a libertarian streak in them. willie, i have no doubt that my mom and dad, and i hear their voices. again, i don't like wearing masks. if i go into a hardware store, if i go into a convenient store, there is somebody wearing a mask, i just assume that they're doing it for a reason, either

they're older or they have underlying conditions. and i take the mask out as a common act of courtesy, put on that mask. mara is talking about that. this really -- it's not mandated now. sometimes, it just comes down to good manners and common sense. >> for sure. >> and respect for the person on the other side of that equation. you know, we have let our guard down, largely if you go somewhere. you don't really see masks anymore, except in travel on planes. i got covid for the first time, i guess, two months ago or so. you know, guard totally down. luckily, i'm boosted, vaxxed, have all those things. thank you, medicine. thank you, science, for that. but it wasn't fun. you know, it was a couple days and another week of feeling sluggish and tired all the time and all that. so it is still there. the question is, what is that balance of getting on with our lives, as i would argue most people have at this point, as david said, and showing that

respect and acknowledging that there still have people out there who are vulnerable. just showing some humanity at the end of the day. >> senior writer for "the new york times", thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. and up next, the entire city of memphis, 650,000 people, put on lockdown for hours last night. we'll explain why. also ahead this morning -- >> oh! >> an all-time shot in what is being called the best match of this u.s. open. we'll have more highlights next on "morning joe."

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carlos alcarez outlasts sinner, ending this morning at 2:50 eastern time. alcaraz advances after spending 5 hours and 15 minutes. that's long, just 11 minutes shy of another u.s. open record. alcarez will meet francis tiafoe tomorrow in the first grand slam semifinal for both players. tiafoe is the first american man to make it to the u.s. open semis since 2006. following up his victory over 22-time grand slam champ rafael nadal with a straight set win

over number 9 seed, rublev yesterday. meanwhile, there will not be an american women hoisting the trophy at arthur ashe stadium on saturday. jessica pegula falling in straight sets yesterday against a to have hp ranked swiatek, who advances to face sablenka in the semifinals. some incredible tennis, joe. >> incredible tennis. what a great open this is turning out to be. willie, just because we are required by law to do it, you know, if anybody is in new york, we have to talk about the american league east. specifically, talk about the new york yankees. god bless the twins. if you are a yankees fan, god bless the twins. they collapsed, new york beat them. mets swept a double-header yesterday. a good day for the big apple. >> yeah, the mets needed that

one. swept a couple blowout wins over the prates in pittsburgh. as i said yesterday, our beloved, beloved minnesota twins. we're grateful for them. helping us get off another little slump here. won four in a row overall but three in a row over the twins, including two in a double-header yesterday. in the first game, aaron judge hit his 55th home run. >> yikes. >> getting awfully close. these are big ones. the magic number is 61 for roger maris, the all-time american league home run record. he was a new york yankee, as well. hit in 1961. many would say, mike barnicle, maybe you as a red sox fan would agree, the true home run record when you factor in the steroid users of the '90 who are above maris on the list. >> i do agree, willie, actually. aaron judge, this is a guy, professional athlete who gambled on himself in the spring, passed up a big deal to say, no, i'm going to hit the market in october. based upon what i do this summer. he is a true winner.

despite what we show in baseball and other sports during the course of the year, i reflect back on the tennis match we just showed clips of. the amazing athleticism involved is just mind-boggling. 5 hours and 15 minutes of intense pressure at that level, it really is something to behold. >> all right. we have breaking news from london. prime minister liz truss says all of the united kingdom is deeply concerned by news about the health of queen elizabeth ii. it follows a statement from buckingham palace that says the queen is under medical supervision, as doctors are, quote, concerned for her majesty's health. according to itv, prince charles and camilla have traveled to the queen's scottish estate to be with her. the queen is 96 years old. we have ed luce from the "financial times" joining us in a few moments. we'll be right back.

all right, we continue with the breaking news. back from london. prime minister liz truss said all of the united kingdom is deeply concerned about news about the health of queen elizabeth ii. it follows a statement from buckingham palace that said the queen is under medical supervision as doctors are, quote, concerned for her majesty's health. according to itv prince charles and camilla have traveled to the queen's scottish estate to be with here. she's 96 years old and of late, especially, has been through so much. >> yeah. she has. and this is very rare. royal watchers will tell you, a statement like this is exceedingly rare. in fact, it is probably never done it before. let's bring in financial times

ed luce. you can't over state the impact queen elizabeth has had over her country. longest serving monarch, 70 years. and obviously, well you saw a picture with the new prime minister and the queen a few days ago. so the news does come as a bit of a surprise. >> yes, it does. and as you say, this is a very rare statement from buckingham palace, so it does indicate that the end is likely near. she's been suffering on and off for a couple of various conditions and been out of commission as it were. not performing her public duties for large chunks of time. so it is not a huge surprise. also given her age. she's just accepted, given her hand to the 15th prime minister

in her reign. as you know, she became prime minister the year dwight eisenhower was elected president, when churchill still had more than a decade left of his life and 20 years before liz truss the new prime minister has even born. so this is an extraordinarily long life and it would be no surprise given this buckingham palace statement if we work close to the end of it now. >> and what a tumultuous period she has been through. not only for britain, but for the world. again, it is hard to even imagine the cataclysmic change over the last 70 years. but you're right, harry truman was in office when she became queen in february of 1952. and as you said, churchill still had quite a few years ahead of

him in politics as britain's prime minister. >> yeah. >> what is her legacy. >> her legacy is i think to be a symbol of continuity at a time when a nation went from being, you know, a late and still large imperial power to being a post imperial power and going into europe and going out of europe. having all kinds of social revolutions, going from a mostly white society to a very multi-cultural and multi-racial society. something, by the way, that she was always very encouraging and positive about. unlike, maybe one or two more distance members of her family. she just managed to absorb all of the changes and compress how positive they were without sort of changing. so, the continuity in change has been a theme of survive ability

of the british monarchy. if she's about to die and if prince charles is about to become king, i suspect there will be new questions about the survive ability of the british monarchy. >> and to ed's point, joe, the statement of course that the medical doctors are concerned for the queen's health, that being released being really a sign that something grave is happening, not something that is normal. we're also seeing reporting from itv that prince william is traveling to the queen's scottish estate as well. so it appears the family is gathering. >> yeah. family is gathering. and it is interesting, the ebb and flow of british power through the years. and 1952, ed, obviously the british empire still in full force. winston churchill said that he wasn't going to be the king's first minister to preside over

the collapse of the british empire. that is exactly what he and what subsequent prime ministers did. but while the queen was in power and anybody who watches the crown and who has gotten their history through the crown has seen one prime minister after another prime minister, after another prime minister fail and britain seemingly in constant decline. but i want to read this line from a "new york times" book review about great britain, ed. regarding the decline as the world power, everything is relative. 20th century britain over came rival empires and fought and won two wars and twice reconstructing the world in its own image. the british retreated from empire once its corrupting decadence became manifest and since that time if you want to just compare, we talked about winston churchill, if we want to compare the mocking of churchill

at yalta, by fdr and stalin, as it already was apparent to those two leaders that britain was going to be a junior partner and they were in decline and continuing to decline relative to soviet union, soviet russia. and look at ebb and flow now. britain certainly since the late 1980s once again becoming a world economic power, certainly with few peers other than the united states and china and a handful of other countries. so britain, in her time, has reasserted at least its chick might. >> yeah, i mean, it remains a very powerful scientific power. there is a lot of innovation from britain. it is not -- if you look over history at the decline of empires, generally they end and

then the imperials sort ofs. so with britain and france and other european powers had a been an unusual story because i get britain is now about four or five times better off than they were when queen elizabeth took the throne. people continue to get wealthier. there is a question mark over that right now. and for the next year or so with the energy crisis and the impact of brexit. but, it is a country that is become, gone from being ancient to being post modern without any revolutions. and i think there are huge social problems in britain. let's not underestimate them but they're not problems that a slightly less -- a slightly less wild politics than britain has seen over the last three or four years can't address. britain can address them. and i think queen elizabeth is

popular with smaller republicans. people who wouldn't normally be monarchists or royalists, generally respect her. because she's embraced the changes and embraced multi-culturalism and people of no faith. she's a wonderful public figure during the pandemic. her address to the nation, evoking we'll meet again during lockdown, evoking the white cliffs of dover, the song of second world war. she's just had a knack for embodying the best of britain. and there is a lot of bad things about britain. don't get me wrong. but she represents, i think the best of it. >> and, ed, we have had a chance back in june, just three months ago, around the jubilee marking 70 years on the throne for queen elizabeth to review and reflect about her career and her life and her time on the throne. and so it is fresh in our minds.

and if you think again about the scope of her life, having taken, as you said, the throne when winston churchill was the prime minister. the man was born in 1874 and now giving her hand a few days ago to the 15th prime minister under her watch in liz truss. my god, she's seen so much in her life. and i mean, the picture yesterday of her shaking liz truss's hand, liz truss is a fairly dominative person, she's not got a big frame. she looked like she was towering over the queen. it looked like the queen had shrunken and made an extraordinary effort to get dressed up and give her hand to the new prime minister as is the tradition. and i think that sort of sense that she will, without making too many gaffes, without almost every making any really serious

gaffes in the 70 years that she would just simply get up and do her duty and perform her public role is just integral to how we think about her. the 15th prime minister, you know, was born in 1972, i think liz truss. she's less than half the queen's age. but there she was, very pleasantly allowing to present her credentials anz now a day later we have what is code name, london bridge is falling down. that is the code name for a death of a monarch. and i suspect that will probably be invoked sometime in the coming days or hours. >> a few minutes ago in talking about this being perhaps the end of queen elizabeth's life as well as her reign, you indicated it would immediately raise questions with charles becoming

the king, that it would pleasely raise questions, about as you put it, the survive ability of the throne. what did you mean by that? >> charles is not as nearly a popular character as his mother. he's been very outspoken and he's made many gaffes. he's affronted people, different parts of the spectrum for different reasons over his many decades as prince of wales. he's not got quite the popular fetch that his mother has. and i guess whenever there is a change of monarch, there are questions about the monarchy. it is not as if britain hasn't had a republican, a small republican movement that is maxed and waned over the centuries. britain did, well england did behead a monarch once 400 years ago. that fate -- that was charles i,

by the way, and that is not the fate of charles iii, if that is what he's about to become. but he's not very popular. so there will be questions, a renewed debate about the legitimacy and role of the monarch. i suspect it will survive it. but if prince william were to be catapulted, leapfrogged to the thrown, it would be less of a debate. he's quite a popular figure. >> if you're just joining us, we're following breaking news at six minutes past the top of the hour about the health of queen elizabeth ii. she is ascended to the throne at 25 years old. she's now 96 years old. queen elizabeth ii is the lodgest running monarch, holding the record for second longest running monarch in the world. she past a meeting in the last 48 hours to rest. doctors had told her to rest. and now she is reportedly under

medical supervision. doctors say they are, quote, concerned for the queen's health. and her family appears to be taking steps to get to her bedside, to get close to her. she was absent from many of the platinum jubilee events in the past months. she had just received britain's new prime minister, liz truss as her summer residence in scotland. but had been experiencing mobility issues and other issues where her health and earlier this year she contracted covid, mild symptoms, had been doing fine but in the past few days her health appeared to weaken and now we are hearing she's under medical supervision. joe. >> let's bring in the bbc's katty kay. ed brought up the point that

britain had gone from an ancient empire to a post modern power in short order and with no revolution obviously, many will look to the continuity, the consistency that queen has shown over 70 years. i'm curious your thoughts about ed's observation and just generally about the remarkable impact this woman has had on britain and the world. >> you know, joe, when i was over in the uk for the queen's platinum jubilee, her 70 years on the throne in june, the whole country was celebrating this woman who has been such a consistent figure in british history. but not just in britain history and global history, she is the woman who has been there for pretty much every president since the second world war. she's been there for every british prime minister and been there through the cold war. and i think for her it is hard

to imagine to be there with -- [ inaudible ]. >> okay. we're having trouble with katty kay on the phone. we'll try to reengage her in a minute. mara gay, though, i know your thoughts as following up on what ed said, this wasn't from 1952 to being a very ancient regime to in her lifetime being a post modern regime and you look at the city of london, which is really -- i mean, it is the center of britain politically, economically, culturally. it is -- london has absorbed

the -- a remarkable demographic change over the past 70 years and it seems londoners have handled it much better than the united states is handling a similar change right now. >> i mean, the queen is such a remarkable figure as a humon being. i have a lod of admiration for her longevity and to be open to transformation in your kingdom, which now is not an empire any more, right. and in your family and in the world and just kind of leading the way, it is the kind of leadership that frankly this country could use right now as well. in just looking to the future. but i think one of the questions that i have as a lowly american, kind of an outsider watching this, when it comes to prince charles, what exactly is a royal family without an empire at this point. and so, i guess i just wonder whether that role might change,

whether their symbolism as a family may change in the years to come. i think queen elizabeth was clearly the transitional figure. so now we're looking at a new age and of course the queen has lived a life with dignity and also by bestowing that dignity on to others and what a great legacy. she's still alive so i just want to give her a little credit, too, for we're talking -- i don't want to talk about her as though she's gone. her impact is extraordinary and it is to be admired. >> well we're going to stay on this breaking story and follow as-t as it developed. again, queen elizabeth ii under medical supervision and her family appearing to rush to her bedside at her summer estate in scotland. we'll bring the latest details as they become available. we want to turn to the fbi search of the president trump's florida estate.

the justice department and trump's legal team are facing a critical court deadline. nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker has detailed. >> reporter: this morning all eyes are on the justice department as it weighs whether to appeal the ruling by a trump appointed judge in florida who granted the former president's request for an independent third party review of the documents taken from his mar-a-lago estate. federal agents say they seized more than 11,000 government documents, including hundreds with classified markings, according to "the washington post" and not confirmed by nbc news, one of the documents described a foreign government's military defenses, including its nuke capabilities. the justice department has argued a special master would significantly harm important governmental interests. but so far has not said what it plans to do next. now, the doj is getting back up from mr. trump's former attorney general bill barr who has turned critical of his former boss. >> that opinion was a mistake.

>> so you think it will be appealed and overruled. >> i hope it is appealed. >> he thinks the doj will be close to an indictment against the president. >> will the government have a technical case, have evidence by which they could indict somebody on including him and i think they're getting very close to that point. >> the former president has dismissed the investigation as a hoax that is politically motivated. his republican allies echoing those attacks. >> the only reason to leak to the media is to influence the narrative which tells you this is being politicized. >> reporter: many republicans have pointed to hillary clinton's alleged miss handling of classified information on a email server as evidence of a double standard. clinton who was never charged with a crime and denied any wrongdoing now telling "the view" it should be concerning. >> i don't understand how these documents end up where they are. i don't understand how he was

permitted to take them even to the residence, let alone to a country club in florida. >> and, again, the trump administration is, as willie said last hour, investigating hillary clinton and concluded she didn't intentionally do anything wrong in what she did. i do find it, ed luce, absolutely fascinating that marco rubio could keep a straight face. i mean a skill, i guess. keep a straight face. bitching and whining about fbi leaks and when he and the republicans wallowed in the fbi's leaks from the new york office for a year and a half on hillary clinton on everything from the clinton foundation to the email server, to you name it, the fbi was leaking nonstop. all right. so there is gambling going on in

the premises. this happened 50, 60 years and let's not be shocking about it. and what concerns us here and i'm concerned about your thoughts, what concerns us here is marco rubio is the top ranking republican on the intel committee, the committee that is supposed to closely guard these secrets and have oversight to make sure these secrets are guarded and he's right now basically telling america he just doesn't give a dam. >> yeah, he knows, we know that he knows that what he's saying is can't -- it's the words of a charlottan. these are completely misleading and comparisons he's making. the history of the hillary clinton emails, which must rank as one of the biggest unforced errors by any investigative

agency by the fbi, was something that arguably turned the 20 san francisco -- the 2016 election and there were no classified emails in her home server and this was an innocent and completely trivial breach of regulations that she had made. completely trivial. and if it had been anybody else, it wouldn't have been a issue. marco rubio has talking about as if it was a threat to u.s. national security. but apparently taking documents, top classified documents to your private residence, telling the fbi they're not there, telling the doj they're not there, that is just a storage question. i mean, it is breathtaking and we run out of adjectives. because marco rubio is in a

tighter -- with val demings is wanting to be more trumpian and more maggia than normal to whip up money and attention. because the self-abasement is so hard to explain and understand otherwise. >> so ed, as you figured out we're intent on making you work overtime here this morning. and in that clip where we showed marco rubio, prior to marco rubio's appearance, we saw former attorney general bill barr who appears to be using fox news as a reputation rehab lab. and i'm wondering what your thoughts are on the sudden emergence of bill barr as a dissent from donald trump's legal position. >> yeah, i mean, it is interesting the times of these people who serve loyally, as the sort of godfather part 2 lawyer as he did through the mueller report and through other issues

as trump's private lawyer almost rather than the attorney general of the united states. suddenly sort of see the light and talk reasonably. as you say, on fox news, and it is interesting fox news are giving him the space to do this repeatedly. i guess part of my explanation, is you need to have a life after trump. and if you're selling a book, and i think liberals read more books than conservatives, then maybe that's got something to do with it. but he's talking bluntly and plainly and accurately about this special master ruling in florida. because he is still, after all, a legal brain and he seems to be bringing it to bear quite clearly on this rather odd transition period we're in with the custody and the investigation of these documents that have been seized by mar-a-lago. one other point, mike, i'm

really very happy to talk about the monarchy, not when she might be dying but i'm not sort of -- my career has got nothing to do with it. i'm more comfortable -- i'm more comfortable talking about marco rubio. >> please, please, we're going to have you back. you're going to be our royal watcher in weeks and months. >> i think he's perfect for it. ed luce, thank you so much. and conservatives do buy books, a lot of books. >> real ones. >> you could look at the top of the book charts and see that evidenced every week. >> okay. so, we've got a lot still ahead on "morning joe." we're following the breaking news about queen elizabeth ii. the 96-year-old monarch appearing to be gravely ill. her doctors releasing a statement that they are concerned about her health and that she is reportedly under medical supervision. we know that prince charles and camilla are headed to her summer

residence where she is to be with her. and so is prince william. so we are looking at a potentially grave situation with the second longest running monarch in world history. queen elizabeth the ii, we'll be following that. and steve bannon will be returning himself into police. we have a report outside of the courthouse on that. and chuck hagel will about here with a new warning about how our partisan politics are making us less safe. plus an nbc news exclusive interview with an ex-nsa translator who was sentenced to four years in jail for leaking classified documents. her reaction to the thousands of classified documents found at the home of former president trump. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. back.

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it is 25 past the hour. a worsening situation at the nuclear plant in ukraine. the country's deputy prime minister warning residents to evacuate or take cover. that as u.s. secretary of state anthony blinken made a surprise visit to the country. megan fitzgerald has more from ukraine. >> reporter: this morning a surprise visit to ukraine from american secretary of state ant tony blinken. the secretary is on the ground in the war torn country meeting with government officials and visiting a children's hospital at a time when ukraine has been sounding an international alarm about the deteriorating zaporizhzhia nuclear plant. the town around the facility under intense fire again. ukraine's deputy prime minister telling residents in russian occupied territory near the plant to evacuate or take cover. mean while, the plant clinging to power, rely on the only

working reactor. world leaders fearing a possible catastrophe as both sides blame the other for the continuing shelling. >> russia is playing roulette with nuclear safety. >> reporter: residences aren't taking any chances in preparing for a possible radiation leak. this pharmacist said people are coming in droves ask fogger iodine but they have run out. this top military chief claims in an interview that russia could use tactical nuclear weapons putting the world on guard for what he said is the potential for a nuclear conflict. this morning the devastation in ukraine towns in the east are mounting. first responders rushing to get civilians trapped under the rubble after fresh russian attacks in the region destroyed a hospital, civilian buildings and set cars on fire. the attacks keep coming. but ukraine is fighting back. and in his over night address to

the country, president zelenskyy congratulating troops for reclaiming territory in kharkiv. as soldiers and troops lowering a soviet era flag in a town. but president putin remains defiant. the russian leader saying his country has only gained from the conflict and mocking the west for russian oil sanctions putin said aren't working. as russia seems to be tightening ties with asia. planning to meet with china's president xi next week. >> megan fitzgerald with that report. and still ahead, former obama campaign manager david plouffe joins the conversation. we're going to get his view on the upcoming midterms just ahead. also, the breaking news we're following this morning, queen elizabeth ii appears to be gravely ill. her doctors say she is under medical supervision. her family is rushing to be by

her side. the bbc's katty kay will join us on the news about queen elizabeth's declining health. we'll be back in just a moment. t

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web browser, one click data clearing and more stop companies like google from watching you, by downloading the app today. duckduckgo: privacy, simplified. we are back now at the bottom of the hour. following the breaking news on the medical condition of queen elizabeth. a statement from buckingham palace just moments ago, i'll quote here, following further evaluation this morning, the queen's doctors are concerned for her majesty's health and have recommended she remain under medical supervision. the queen remains comfortable and at ball moral. let's bring into the conversation for bbc news, katty kay. we've been talking about how unusual and extraordinary a statement like that is coming from the palace. we're also have reports that the prince charles is at her side, the king in waiting and prince william is on his way as others of the family are headed up to

scotland. what do you read in all of this as somebody who has covered this queen for so long? >> you're right, willie, it is unusual for the palace to release personal statements about the queen's health. they have told us earlier this year before the platinum jubilee that she had mobility issues and she has restricted the amount of appearances that she's done. but we did here in that photograph a couple of days ago with the new british prime minister liz truss at ball morrow and shortly afterwards we saw her in the photograph from the room in ball morrow. but it is unusual that a prime minister was sworn in and they didn't want the queen, she had been advised not to travel down to london for the new prime minister because of her health. so there was some indication there, but i think when everybody saw the photograph, although she looked so frail, we

felt she was up and about and dressed and meeting the new prime minister. but it is unusual for the palace to put out this statement and unusual for the whole family to be going up to scotland from the south of england to see the queen in this moment. so, the queen is 96. we covered her platinum jubilee and she was frail then and everybody commented on her extraordinarily long reign but she's 96 and we know she has had mobility issues in the past year. >> and we do from time to time get updates on her majesty's health. but the word "concern" has been injected into that statement. which gives you some idea of the gravity of this moment. and katty, you mentioned the platinum jubilee, celebrating 70 years on the throne and we were talking earlier in the hour just about the extraordinary longevity and for some

perspective, she's had 15 prime ministers, during her reign, her first was winston churchill born in 1874. the current prime minister, who she just med a couple of days ago, liz truss was born in 1975. so a fan of 100 years and for the queen herself, going so far back to those visits with her parents, we think after world war ii, there was one to africa whereas a 21-year-old she made a speech and said no matter how short or long my life is,ly spend it serving you the people of the united kingdom. you cannot overstate the impact of her life. >> i don't think it is just for people of the united kingdom, either. i think for people around the world, it is impossible to imagine a figure with this longevity who has seen so much of what has happened on this planet in the last 70 years.

she has come out of the post second world war period and she lived through that, and she served driving land rovers and mending car engines, learning the basics of mechanics during the second world war. she lived all through the cold war. she has lived through all of the social and cultural and political revolutions we've seen in the '60s. she met all of the u.s. presidents since the second world war. can you imagine another figure that has had that much longevity and that much awareness and impact on global events. she's the queen. she's not a political figure. she has not been involved in british politics or in global politics in that sense. but just by virtue of the amount shes had lived through and the numbers of heads of state she has met around the world, she's had an impact. she just, by being the queen, has had an impact. and when we celebrated the jubilee, it was a big thank you

from the british public to her years of service and the way she's held the monarchy so immaculately. >> as we sit here in september of 2022, think about the fact that elizabeth received the phone call on february 6th, 1952 that her father had died and that she would be the next queen of england. stay with us. we're going to talk to you about this again shortly. buckingham palace putting out a statement that it is concerned now, the doctors for queen elizabeth concerned about her majesty's health and some of the family is already in scotland at the castle with her others making their way and we'll be on top of that story for the rest of the morning. and a live report from a new york courthouse where steve bannon is facing a any krum indictment. he's expected to surrender to state prosecutors at any moment. we'll discuss the case against him and follow the breaking news

about the health of queen elizabeth when "morning joe" comes right back.

the choice between prop 26 and 27? let's get real. prop, 26 means no money to fix homelessness, no enforcement oversight and no support for disadvantaged tribes. yikes! prop 27 generates hundreds of millions towards priorities like new housing units in all 58 counties. 27 supports non-gaming tribes and includes strict audits that ensure funds go directly to people off the streets and into there's only one choice. yes on 27. want a permanent solution to homelessness? there's only one choice. you won't get it with prop 27. it was written and funded by out-of-state corporations to permanently maximize profits, not homeless funding. 90% of the profits go to out-of-state corporations permanently. only pennies on the dollar for the homeless permanently. and with loopholes, the homeless get even less permanently. prop 27. they didn't write it for the homeless.

they wrote it for themselves. police in memphiss had arrested a man after a shooting spree yesterday. nbc's jesse kirsch has details. >> reporter: overnight, a deadly attack on memphis and a gunman now charged. leaving the terrified city on lockdown for hours. police say the lone gunman live streaming part of the shooting spree that stretched into the night leaving at least four people dead and three more injured. >> this is no way for us to live. and it is not acceptable. >> reporter: police say 19-year-old ezekiel's kelly rampage continued for nearly five hours across eight different crime scenes and including this auto zone. authorities warning the public to stay inside as they closed in

on the suspect. buses and trolley service were also suspended. a minor league baseball game called off and locked down for hours. joyce peterson showing emotion that so many in memphis were feeling. >> memphis is tired right now. >> reporter: eventually police were finally able to corner and capture the suspect. after he allegedly crashed a stolen car during a high-speed pursuit. now kelly is behind bars where the mayor said he should have been sooner. court records show that a warrant for first-degree murder was issued on wednesday for kelly. reason for the warrant is unknown. he was also charged in 2020 with two counts attempted first-degree murder when aged 17 and subsequently pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of aggravated assault. >> if mr. kelly served his full three-year sentence, he would still be in prison today and four of our fellow citizens

would still be alive. >> reporter: the mayor said he served 11 months in prison and was released in march of this year. more violence in a city still reeling with the abduction and killing of mother and teacher eliza fletcher. revealing that suspect had a lengthy criminal record. he was released from prison in 2020. the memphis mayor speaking out overnight. >> this is been a painful week in our city. but i have hope for memphis. >> memphis in a lot of pain right now. jesse kirsch reporting for us there. coming up next, the breaking news about the health of queen elizabeth as buckingham palace expressed concerns for her health and her family makes its way to scotland to be with her. we'll bring you the latest details. and chuck hagel will join us, he

was one of the former military officials who signed a letter warning that divisive partisan politics is making our country less safe. we'll speak to him. also head, we'll speak with the parents of seth rich. he is the 27-year-old dnc staffer shot and killed in 2016. a new book revealed startling new details about the conspiracy theories pushed by some on the far right about their son's death that cause the the family great pain. "morning joe" is coming right back.

it would be interesting to see, i will tell you this, russia if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. >> in july of 2016, then presidential nominee donald trump made those infamous remarks. encouraging russia to hack the email server of hillary clinton. as we later found out, russia

was listening. and had already leaked thousands of the emails from the democratic national committee headquarters. shortly after, conspiracy theorists right-wing cable newspaper personalities and top trump advisers would falsely attribute the leak to a 27-year-old dnc staffer who had been shot and killed near his washington apartment just two weeks earlier. the police said that the killing was likely a random armed robbery. seth rich became the center of a baseless far-right conspiracy theory claiming he was assassinated by a contract killer working for the clinton campaign. but following years of harassment against the right against rich's parents all the while they mourned the tragic death of their young son. in a moment we'll speak with

joel and mary rich. but first, let's bring in investigative reporter for propublica, andy kroll, the author ever a new book entitled "a death or w street, the murder of seth rich and the age of conspiracy." thank you so much for being on the show this morning. and i know the book looks into how many worked with seth's family trying to beat back the conspiracy theories that were being pushed about him. how did that work? >> well, this story opens with the tragedy you just described, mika. the death of this really promising and charming disarming young man seth rich and then after his death this explosion of conspiracy theories and viral propaganda about his life and death. but the real core of this new book of mine is a story of

family, an it is a story about fighting for the truth and that is what joel and mary rich, seth's parents, set out to do in the face of fox news broadcasting these untruths about seth rich and the alt right promoting these conspiracy theories online. so what i've set out to capture is this year's long battle by seth rich's parents joel and mary and by lawyers working for them and people defending the truth to try to recapture who seth was and to try to show there is a way to fight for justice in this social media polarized era that we're in. >> andy, you write a lot in the book about how this lie, this conspiracy theory took hold in dark corners of the internet but was amplified by prominent news personalities, particularly on fox news. how did this conspiracy theory start, why seth rich and why this guy and why this lie?

>> if you think back to that crazy summer of 2016, it felt like there was one insane news cycle after another and it was hard to keep up and it was a chaotic moment. seth has died july 10th, 2016 and when the wikileaks emails came out, julien assange goes on television and dangled this disingenuous motion that seth rich had something to do with it. something for which there was no evidence, there is no evidence. and that was almost like a superspreader event for an online viral lie. and from there, this false story, this conspiracy theory takes off and it gains traction from people like roger stone, it gains traction from supreme like steve bannon, someone in the news today and it eventually reaches the mainstream prime time airwaves of fox news, sean hannity promoted this more than anyone and taking it to an

audience of millions at which point this conspiracy theory has become a foundational conspiracy theory for 21st century politics. >> you know, unfortunately, i know people who tragically have been involved, that have been in the cross-hairs unfortunately of the sort of lies in my life. i'm sure so many of you know about tj classutis, whose wife died sadly and tragically 20 years ago and the left first and then the trump right started spreading lies about her and her husband begged repeatedly begged people to stop adding to the pain of how they were having to

go through and tj wrote the president of the united states, he wouldn't stop. then donald trump, he wouldn't stop. and every day, the reminder, the pain. they were just never able to mourn like parents are supposed to be able to mourn their children and there even a host at fox news that continues the conspiracy theory bringing it up whenever he can and that is pain for tj and pain for the family every day. you just, you can't begin to imagine the pain they endure because of this painfulness. but let's bring in two people that understand that pain, the parents of seth rich, mary and joel. mary, a mother losing her son, it is unmanageable to me as a dad. but then to not be able to mourn him in peace seems like your

robs -- robs of something every parent needs. talk about the hell you've gone through. >> i call it torture in a science fiction book. because you can't understand why people are saying this, it is our son, it was absolutely ridiculous. and they ripped the soul away from him. and we're going to make sure they're not going to. but even today we still have things torture us. >> yeah. every day. and joel, the thing about the classutis family, they're not public figures. they are didn't sign up for this. they didn't sign up for the.

tj didn't sign up for the tragedy or the hatefulness. and it seems it must be almost impossible for you to courtroom -- for to you comprehend you can't mourn your son's death in peace. >> we've been able to talk with tj and there is a commonality that we've had with the way these stories with no truth, no facts, just come back to haunt you. hopefully the major stuff about seth, all of the lies will disappear. but his name will still be tied to conspiracies for a long, long time. >> so i'm going to let them -- >> yeah. so why don't you tell us something about seth. it struck me that in lori's case, here is a young woman working at a bank and decided she wanted to get engaged in

public service. she wanted to make a difference. and for that, her family is still paying the price. because she just wanted to participate in public service. you could say the same thing about seth. a ideological young man. tell us about seth. >> when seth was just in high school, he was working on the ben nelson's senate campaign when he was just a junior in high school. but he had liked politics. he watched cnn -- or not cnn, c-span for fun and he knew all of the senators, all of the congressman, he could tell you which district everyone was in. that it was just something that he loved being part of it. he studied political science at crayton university and then as soon as he got out of school he went to move to washington, d.c. and worked first for a polling

company and then got like a dream job of working for the dnc where he was able to be part of it and part of helping to make sure that everyone could vote. voting was extremely important to him. >> making a difference in the world to help people, was his number one thing, no matter where he was at, when he was in high school, he jumped in on things to help people and he wanted to make sure everybody, didn't matter what your color was, everybody got help and he could make a difference to help those people. and i've often said to whoever murdered our son, you murdered the wrong person. because you obviously have a problem and he's the one that could have and would have solved

it. >> yeah. >> go ahead, joel. >> after he died in all of those stories came out, we kept our one mission was to just follow the truth, whatever the truth is. or what we're going to believe and it is what really happened. >> yeah, i was just going to say everyone i've talked to have said nothing but good things about seth. he was bright and charismatic and an impressive young man. mary, if can you speak to it, you sort of referenced it a little bit earlier, you're still tortured by this conspiracy theory to this day. i think about even the sandy hook families because of some conspiracy theorists making you have lies that they've had to suffer even further and move and go into hiding and all of these things. what has it been like for you asa try to mourn the death of your wonderful son to have this