♪♪ ♪♪ london, england, on september 12th, 2001, the day after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, as her majesty the queen broke a 600-year tradition in order to stand with the united states. requesting for the first time the "star spangled banner" be played outside buckingham palace.

as we approach the 21st anniversary of 9/11 this sunday, it is america now standing with the british commonwealth, as it mourns the loss of its longest reigning monarch, queen elizabeth ii. this morning, we will remember her legacy and discuss the future of the british monarchy under the reign of king charles iii. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, september 9th. along with joe, willie, and me, we have u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. presidential historian and rogers chair in the american presidency at vanderbilt university, jon meacham. and the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire is with us. the other big stories we're following this morning, and there are many, the justice department appeals the decision to grant a special master in the investigation into donald trump's handling of classified

documents. former trump adviser steve bannon indicted in new york city as he turned himself in on money laundering and conspiracy charges. we'll explain why this indictment may also have the former president worried. >> yeah, he was running around yelling things, shouting, i don't know, "you're to the people." something like, "the man is going down." i don't know what he was yelling, and it doesn't matter. willie, an america lost past and where grifters like him in the trump administration could get away with crimes and be pardoned, those days are closing. steve bannon's case, i asked tom winter, wait a second, if you are stealing a couple million dollars from people because you're lying about building a wall and you don't build a wall, well, what would you say about somebody who, oh, i don't know, raised hundreds of millions of

dollars lying to people, telling them that you were going to use their money for stop the steal? now, this is -- i talk about jim and tammy faye bakker a good bit. this is ripped straight out of the pages of the ptl club. you lie to people and get them to contribute to something that means a lot to them, and it ends up, you don't use the money for those purposes. bannon now is in handcuffs because of that. yesterday, i asked the question, wait a second, i don't understand, trump did it but on a much larger scale. is this another example of where the justice department is just going to look the other way? the answer, apparently, no. >> the select committee put the number at $250 million raised for that stop the steal effort. >> wow. >> it is the model of build the trust, build the loyalty of your followers, and then the hustle begins. >> yeah. >> create a lie that says the election was stolen. say, "i need you now. i appreciate your loyalty. i need you now." $250 million.

where did the money go? where is that money? who raised it? that'll be one of the questions that will be in this definitive report from the select committee. to your point, if you take a million bucks, as steve bannon is accused of doing in the build the wall thing, what about $250 million for stop the steal? >> that is a big question. >> a bigger question, of course, jonathan lemire. you wrote the book on january 6th. >> and the big lie. >> the question we have you here for is, who won the over/under yesterday on the bannon shirts? it was 2.5. >> i've got it at, looks like, maybe three. there's the collared shirt. i can't tell if there is one undershirt or two. he favors the layered look, as you know. >> you know what we're going to call this? >> a bush. >> this is a bush. you know what, it appears he has 2.5 shirts on. >> that's what we expected. let's be honest, devastatingly handsome, even in a moment of legal peril. brings the a-game. >> paul newman, 1958.

>> splendor. >> really quickly, before we get onto the news that i would cover for four hours today, but i understand -- which is the queen. >> we have lots to cover. >> we have more than that. >> the queen is the big story of the morning. >> seriously, though, talk about the fact that bannon is now in cuffs. >> yeah. >> shouting, "power to the people" or whatever hippie stuff he is shouting. you have donald trump sitting there going, "wait a second, if he is in cuffs for stealing $1 million and lying to people about raising it, i lied and got $250 million, whatever the amount is, from people for the stop the steal scam." by the way, i'm not even talking about the big lie itself. i'm talking about, "give me this money. i will use this money to fight back against the, quote, steal." >> to cheat. >> he didn't use the money for legal defense or anything he said he was using the money for. >> on the way into court, bannon shouted, "they'd have to kill me." i'm sure this is not a death

penalty case, but 5 to 15 years if convicted, which is a serious charge. there is a sense that doj is investigating the stop the steal money, the money that trump raised, and has not spent. we know that he's done this as a fundraiser, you know, politically, and now he did it in the stop the steal, a movement to contest an election that, the charges are, they knew was, of course, conducted fairly. the whole thing was a lie, this idea it was rigged and they were raising money off the lie. another potential front for legal peril for trump. willie has the big story of the morning. >> let's begin as buckingham palace announces the passes of the longest reigning monarch. quote, the queen died peacefully at balmoral this afternoon. that is her summer home in scotland. the queen was 96 years old. what comes next is a meticulously national memorializing of the queen, which reportedly was set in motion with four coded words yesterday. london bridge is down. as part of the plans, england's

new king, charles iii, will deliver a televised address to the united kingdom tonight. tomorrow, after taking an oath, swearing to protect the church of scotland, the accession of king charles is expected to be announced from a balcony at st. james palace. the oath has been taken by every monarch since george i in 1714. the queen's body will be transported back to buckingham palace for a small funeral recession attended by government officials. it'll include the uk's new prime minister, liz truss, who was sworn in this week. the queen's body is expected to stay there until tuesday before being moved again to westminster palace, where members of the public then will be able to pay their republicans. simultaneously, the new king will tour the uk and then return to london for queen elizabeth's funeral. following the funeral, the queen will be buried inside st. george's chapel at windsor castle, joe. that's just a little bit of what

happens from here. we were on the air at this time yesterday when we got the news that the palace was concerned. her doctors were concerned. the family rushed in. it was pretty clear to most observers what was happening. got the news yesterday, and the reaction from around the world has been to praise this woman of 70 years on the throne. >> it really has been. it's been a remarkable, almost universal praise. obviously, for a woman who was ahead of the monarchy. you usually wouldn't expect to have such praise from almost all quarters, but that's what happened. it happened especially in britain because queen elizabeth remained the one constant through time for a nation rocked by the collapse of its empire, the humiliation of the suez, the pound devaluation, the radicalism of the '60s, blackouts of the '70s, miserable decade, the death of diana and

so much more. today, the british people are saying good-bye to their beloved queen, as members of a vibrant, extraordinarily diverse, tech tech technologically advanced society. they still possess one of the most powerful economies in the world, with a remarkably robust cultural reach. may the memory of queen elizabeth ii serve as an inspiration to all of us who long admired her steadfast devotion to public service. and she would say, and she has said, most importantly, her humility before god. katty, a devout woman. i heard yesterday on the bbc somebody saying she was very devout, but it was a faith that she wore lightly. she did not -- she did not run around and try to push it on anyone. she was, in fact, again -- and i

think it was ed luce yesterday who said, how remarkable, that she presided over a britain that went from an ancient empire during her time to a post modern society without revolt, without revolution. >> yeah, she always kept in mind and balanced how much to let the public in on the monarchy and how much to maintain the mystique of the monarchy. that's what she felt was the most powerful way she could keep the monarchy strong. she let the cameras in occasionally. she did let people see occasionally what she was feeling, but on things like her faith, for example, you're right, that was private. she had this incredible ability to keep her private thoughts just that, in a world where nobody does that. i mean, we live in a world of massive oversharing. the one person in the world who never overshared, her majesty queen elizabeth. she didn't do it. she never complained.

she never shirked her duty and certainly never overshared. in a way, she was an exception in her time. the first part of her reign, when she came to the throne in the 1950s, she was a figure of that period. you listen to the old videos and the tape recordings of her, and she sounds straight out of the second world war, doesn't she? she's got the voice that takes you straight back to the second world war 2 movies, kind of incredibly portioned and so different from today. she's a creature of that time. yet, she did manage to evolve. she sent -- first monarch to send an email, to send a tweet. she managed to evolve with the times enough to keep the monarchy relevant, without stripping it of the mystique that she realized was so important to its strength and its longevity. >> you know, jon meacham, what really was remarkable is how she did remain a constant through

the most tumultuous times politically, culturally, in every other way. and the word "conservative" has been thrown around so loosely over the past 30 years. i always go back to russell kirk and the conservative mind, the last intro he did, his seventh volume, where he said, both the impulse to improve and the impulse to conserve are necessary to the healthy functioning of any society. whether we join our energies to the party of progress or the party of permanence must depend upon the circumstances of the time. and queen elizabeth, she understood her job was to run, you know -- it was to be the

head of the government, whether it was winston churchill or whether it was anthony eden, whether it was harold wilson, you know, left o r right, hard conservative or near socialist. what katty said is the case. it was her job to listen and understand her role in that constitutional order, provide permanency, and not run out giving her opinion on every single issue that passed. how hard that must have been over 70 years, at a time of revolutionary change. >> imagine being someone who met with, every week, with prime ministers, occasionally with presidents, with statesmen, with leaders of culture and business and the arts and not being able

to use -- not being able to say what you think. as katty says, the dominant feature of our culture now is that we have the means to express opinions constantly without having opinions worth expressing constantly. you know, that's the tension that defines contemporary life. in that sense, elizabeth ii is the embodiment of a counterculture. she was restrained. she was dignified. she did her duty. i use the word dignified on purpose. constitutional scholars in britain remember, she was a constitutional monarch for a country that has a constitution but didn't write it down, right? katty's country is the only one that figured, well, we know. it is an ambient reality. there is a really important lesson there for us in our time. we're having a hard time following the constitution, the words of the constitution. the british follow something

that's not even written down because they intuitively know what they're supposed to do. walter badger broke it down. there is an official part of the british constitution, and there is a dignified part. elizabeth ii was the embodiment of the dignified part. i just think the virtues of restraint, of getting on with it, and of following the rules and the sense of fair play is a remarkable legacy for this hour and all the hours to come. >> you know, capturing exactly what jon and katty both have said here, andrew sullivan, the great writer and thinker, tweeted this. i'm trying to write a column and find myself in tears. everything she exemplified, restraint, duty, grace, persistence, are disappearing from this world.

it gets at what you've been saying. let's bring in pulitzer prize winning columnist at "the washington post," eugene robinson. previously served as london bureau chief for the paper. gene, we began to talk about this yesterday, but just the incredible scope of queen elizabeth's life really spelled out by this statistic, which is that her first prime minister as queen was winston churchill, born in 1874. last was liz truss, born in 1975. talking about a span of 100 years there. the things she has seen, the life she has lived, and the touch points in history that she has witnessed. >> right. there never will be another like her, i think. it is fair to say. certainly, not king charles, who is coming to the throne at age 73. the next heir, william, is already 40. i mean, we're not going to see, probably ever, a reign like hers.

you know, she did, at least from what you hear from the prime ministers who -- former prime ministers who met with her, it's not that she didn't have opinions that she would express privately with them, but that never became public because she knew that it was certainly her job not to have public opinions. not even to betray with her facial expressions what she thought in a given moment. because, you know, she saw a horse and smiled. that would be great for the people who love horses, they'd love it. people who didn't like horses wouldn't like it very much. so she had to be this sort of very neutral figure. meacham quoted walter badgett. another thing he said was the mystery is the monarchy's life.

he said, we must not let in daylight upon magic. i think she lived by those words. she was weary of sharing and oversharing and welcoming people into the inner sanctum of the royal family. that would let daylight upon the magic of the monarchy. subsequent generations are not nearly as good at that as she was. there's been a whole lot of daylight on the inner life of king charles, you know, and so we'll see if they can sustain this legacy, this record that she set, which is -- any way you

look at it, it is so impressive. >> seems daunting. >> it does. it does seem daunting. yeah. king charles iii, we'll leave the princely stuff in the '90s. >> king charles. >> to gene's point, andrew sullivan's words, dignity, grace, fortitude, it seems as she went into old age, those attributes stood out even more as society seems to lose them. >> there's no doubt about it. andrew sullivan, when i read what andrew sullivan wrote, it just serves as a great challenge. i mean, let it begin with me. it's just the case that she was able to hold back and show restraint when it was needed. there were very few times where it did get out publicly that she was not pleased with the prime minister's position. one example of that was

apartheid in south africa. there were a few others. very rarely did she do that. jonathan, you're looking at the papers and some remarkable headlines today. >> yeah. >> all across. >> we have here, obviously, "the new york times," this gorgeous black and white photograph here. queen and spirit of britain. elizabeth ii, whose seven decade reign linked generations, dies at 96. "wall street journal" opts for the youthful photograph. this is what the palace put out on its website. gorgeous shot of her too. of course, on the cover of the tabloids, as well. in new york city, "the new york daily news." on "the post," simply, "the queen." >> underneath, hunter biden's laptop and it leads to the death of the queen. >> also, the twins beat the yankees. that's on the back page. >> okay. >> senior international correspondent keir simmons.

keir, you know, i'll just say, you know, i grew up in the '70s. i remember what the '70s looked like in britain from afar. i remember the sex pistols, god save the queen, the protest, the shock, the punk movement. you know, the monarchy under constant attack. then i saw a clip from outside of buckingham palace yesterday. people, i'm sure, the same age as johnny rotten at the time. they were all outside, and what were they doing? they were singing upon hearing the news, "god, save the queen." it is remarkable this monarchy has withstood hitler, the punk movement. i, of course, joke about that one. but they've withstood personal scandals from the now king and have endured and endured. it seems more beloved than ever. >> reporter: yeah, and it is

reassuring today, joe, to see, while there is all of the grief, and we'll talk about that, and all of the shock, frankly, despite the fact she was 96, it is reassuring to see the constitutional process kick into gear, if you like. for example, as you'll know, british courts act on behalf of the monarch. for the first time this morning, in the courts, the justices have been called to do justice on behalf of the king, not the queen. it is that moment where we say the queen is dead. long live the king. so you have that part. there are so many aspects to this. you have that happening. then you have the crowds behind me gathering. as you mentioned, joe, people of all ages, people of all political beliefs. as i walk through the crowds, there are people standing slightly a distance away, just in quiet, somber reflection, and people are asking different

experiences. i have to say, one aspect of this for me this morning was just, clearly, we're busy right now. this is a big story in our work and, yet, every now and then, there is a moment i just stop, the queen is dead. just as you do when you lose anyone. it is trying to take that in. sometimes it just gets you here, and i suspect that will be how people will feel for some time. i just want to show you. jonathan was looking at your newspapers there. i want to show you some of the newspapers here. almost all of them printed in black for mourning. front page of "the sun," "we loved you." front page of the "mirror," struggling to find the words, simply, "thank you." the "telegraph," an old-fashioned newspaper, so it is double, all in black, and the

picture spreads right across the broad sheet. then they have this quote, which is a quote from the queen when she lost her husband, "grief is the price we pay for love." people are grieving across this country and across the world. that, i think, encapsulates this split screen between the private and the public side of royal life. but all of that constitutional, all of that constitutional talk, if you like, and all of the conversations that we will inevitably have about our different systems and how imperfect they are, different kinds of democracies and how we can learn from each other, all of that is good to talk about. there is also this aspect with the queen herself, isn't there? it is hard to comprehend she was standing on that balcony a few months ago, celebrating 70 years on the throne. that picture of her appointing prime minister liz truss this

week, doing her duty just days before she died, is just quite extraordinary. she was the queen. with all of the royal paraphernalia, pomp, and pageantry that surrounds that, yet, she was a working woman who kept working until her final days. she was a queen who led this country and, actually, the world in many ways, who was with this country and the world through the second world war, and she stayed at her post until the very last moment. it is a -- what she leaves us in death, from her life, is a deeper understanding about what duty and service really means. >> nbc's keir simmons, thank you. those headlines are absolutely beautiful. thank you very much for that report. we're going to have much more ahead on this. >> we are. you know, keir was saying that,

you know, like when anyone loses a leader, loses somebody, but this is unique unto itself. i was thinking, mick jagger tweeted yesterday, for my whole life, for my whole life, how old is mick jagger? >> pushing 80. >> that's when it occurred to me. mick jagger says, "for my whole life, her majesty queen elizabeth ii has always been there. in my childhood, i can recall watching her wedding highlights on tv. i remember her as a beautiful young lady, to be much beloved grandmother of the nation. my deepest sympathies are with the royal family." that's when it struck me, willie, that there are people pushing 80 now, pushing 80, who have only known -- >> don't know life without her. >> yeah. >> one queen. every person we speak to today from britain, this is the first day of their life that they have been a british citizen without queen elizabeth at the head of the government.

>> that is why keir sharing the way he was feeling was so poignant. it is probably, i imagine, how everyone in the country is feeling. by the way, people around the world who have watched her for all of these years. king charles, there we go again, king charles, get used to saying it, but he is the king, he'll give an address tonight. even though the country and the world have known this day was coming since he was born 73 years ago, it still, i imagine, will be jarring to the people of the unitedkingdom, to have him step forward and say, "i am your king" after 70 years of queen elizabeth. >> we'll be joined by the u.s. ambassador to the uk and the british ambassador to the united states. up next, the doj's targeted appeal of a florida judge's controversial special master ruling. and steve bannon has his day in court. could that lead to former president trump's having one of his own?

plus, democrats keep saying abortion is on the ballot this november. now, a court ruling in michigan has made that literally the case. we'll explain that. and later, yesterday, when talking about the mess rick scott has made with the national republican senatorial committee, we joked that no one knows who his democratic counterpart is. well, it's senator gary peters. >> by the way, that's the way you want it to be. >> he is going to join the table. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> you don't want to know who the guy is. >> no. subway's drafting 12 new subs, for the all-new subway series menu. let's hear about this #7 pick, from a former #7 pick. juicy rotisserie-style chicken. you should've been #1. this isn't about the sandwich, is it chuck? it's not. the new subway series. what's your pick?

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i would say that to me an important aspect is too... meta portal with smart sound. helps reduce your background noise. bring that sense of calm, really... so you come through, loud and clear. meta portal. the smart video calling device that makes work from home work for you. subway's drafting 12 new subs, for the all-new subway series menu. let's hear about this #7 pick, from a former #7 pick. juicy rotisserie-style chicken. you should've been #1. this isn't about the sandwich, is it chuck? it's not. the new subway series. what's your pick? 32 past the hour. the justice department has decided to appeal part of a federal judge's ruling to appoint a special master to review the documents the fbi removed from former president donald trump's florida home and

club. prosecutors say they have serious concerns about handing government secrets over to a third party. the department argues the records seized from mar-a-lago last month are not the former president's personal records. he has no right to possess them. the doj also asked judge cannon to put on hold her order, blocking the department from using the seized records in its criminal investigation. while it contests her ruling to a federal appeals court. law enforcement officials said in a filing yesterday they would suffer irreparable harm if judge cannon's order remained in place. judge cannon directed trump's lawyers to respond to the government by monday. >> nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. ken, i know -- so this appeal will go to the 11th circuit. the 11th circuit, pretty conservative circuit.

at the same time, i'm sure they don't want to be reversed by the supreme court on something this huge. when you have everybody from andy mccarthy, "the new york post," a tough legal mind who usually supported president trump, to former attorney general barr, neal katyal, saying this was an absolutely egregious decision, you wonder if a conservative circuit, the 11th circuit, won't overturn this. what are you hearing? >> absolutely right, joe. i think that's why the justice department focused on the most egregious, from their point of view, the least supportable part of what the judge did here. they're basically saying, judge, we can live with the special master looking at donald trump's tax and health records that we took from his office. but the special master has no right to review these 100 classified documents we've already segregated and put in a

special place. because donald trump had no right to them. they are not his personal records. they're government records. there's no possible claim of attorney/client privilege, the justice department is saying. though the judge held out some theoretical possibility that some of them could be covered by executive privilege, the justice department says, even if that were true, the nixon supreme court watergate case says a criminal investigation holds sway here. we need these documents. interestingly, in this request to the judge to stay, part of her order, there is an affidavit from the head of the fbi's counterintelligence division. he says, basically, look, the intelligence community has had to put a stop on their damage assessment here because of your order. because what we're doing with the criminal investigation is inextricaby linked to the damage assessment. for example, he said, there are a bunch of empty files marked classified we found at mar-a-lago. we need to figure out where the documents went. we need criminal tools to do that. you can't tell us you can do a

damage assessment but you can't lock at these documents for the purposes of the criminal investigation. what some observers said, the doj is giving this judge a graceful way out, i would disagree with that. a graceful way out would have been a motion to reconsider to the judge. they didn't go that route. they're saying, we're appealing, judge, but we're giving you one last chance to do the right thing and put a stay on this really egregious part of your order that has no support in law, according to the justice department. >> they'd suffer irreparable harm if the order remained in place. they don't want a third party seeing the documents. again, it seems when trump's team makes a move, they end up revealing more about the severity of this case. >> that's right, mika. as the national archivess ago, documents contain some of the most highly classified markings the government has. special access programs, which are available to a small number

of people in the government, created by cabinet secretaries. there are copartments they have to be read in. some of the fbi agents who seized the documents had to have special clearance before they could look at them. we're talking about super sensitive stuff. what the government is saying, the irreparable harm is, we need to figure out what now what sources and methods have been exposed. not in three months when the appeals process goes through. they are saying, the united states of america, not just prosecutors, the public is suffering irreparable harm here the longer we have to wait to investigate what the damage was, mika. >> mika, any way the trump team turns, and this is the problem, any way they turn, anything they plead, anything that's revealed -- >> they're like, okay. >> -- they're going to hurt themselves and hurt themselves for the reason we keep repeating every day. after he's been indicted and charged, people are going to look back and go, well, of course he was indicted and charged for this. right now, people are acting

shocked, stunned and deeply saddened. the reason why whichever way they turn, it's bad news, is nobody has justification for what he's done. he's not justified it. >> he's not denied it. >> his hacks out in the media haven't justified it. his hacks, both in and out of the prison, haven't justified it. there's no justifying of this. i've got to say, also, chief justice roberts, and i would think one or two other people on the court, the high court, willie, are going to be really uncomfortable with a district court judge in the judiciary, the judicial branch, telling the executive branch, the department of justice, you know what, we understand the constitution gives you the power to enforce the law, but i'm not going to let you do that. >> we're going to rifle through these again. >> we'll rifle through these and

delay your investigation. a fort pierce federal judge in florida, i'm going to just stop an investigation by the department of justice against a former president of the united states regarding perhaps the greatest security breach that any high-level official in the executive branch has ever committed. i don't see the roberts' court going, yeah, we're cool with that. >> that's why the argument of the trump team wanting it to get to the supreme court, which he thinks is favorable to him, doesn't make sense, just on the merits. >> they were against him in the stop the steal lies. >> exactly. >> 63 federal judges were against him. i understand, they had their abortion ruling. i understand on these idealogical issues, how they respond. i do not believe they're going to respond in a way that surprises us when you're talking about, first of all, separation of powers issues, and, secondly, law enforcement issues.

willie, they're going to start letting district court judges across america stop doj investigations? that's insane. >> and every time a new motion comes out, a new filing from the trump team, as mika said, we learn more about it. it gives the justice department another chance to say, these documents don't belong to you. you had no right to take them and put them at the pool shed in mar-a-lago. ken, let me get you on another story here. steve bannon pleaded not guilty yesterday in a new york court to charges of money laundering, scheming to defraud, and conspiracy. the charges relating to his involvement with the organization, we build the wall, a group created and advertised as a fundraising effort to complete the wall at the southern border, as president trump promised back then. it is alleged bannon defrauded donors and illegally funneled $100,000 to the organization's president and then profited himself. bannon now faces between 5 to 15 years for the most serious charge. in 2020, bannon was charged

federally for his activiies with we build a wall, but was then pardoned by president trump before the case went to trial. bannon was convicted in july of two counts of contempt of congress after refusing to comply with a subpoena investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol. you see bannon placed in handcuffs in court. where does this case go from here? is there a chance he really serves time in jail? >> i think so, willie. this is a very strong case. it was a very strong federal case, and now it is a very strong state case. it is a garden variety fraud, the way they've alleged it here. these people made some representations, and they raised $25 million. they diverted some of it for personal use. what is interesting about this case, to me, is you'll remember that donald trump pardoned paul manafort and the state of new york tried to charge paul manafort with crimes. that prosecution blew up over the double jeopardy provision in the constitution. well, that can't apply here because bannon was never

convicted in the federal case. it never went to trial. so the state is free to bring, really, the identical case, different charges under state law, and go forward with it. it's really hard to see what steve bannon's defense is here. we'll have to wait and see. i mean, as prosecutors looked at this -- who looked at this and said, this is an open and shut garden variety fraud case, the kind they prosecute every day. >> justice correspondent ken dilanian, thank you very much. coming up, the michigan supreme court makes a major ruling, putting abortion on the ballot. we'll talk to michigan congresswoman slotkin and former chief of staff to the dccc, adrienne elrod, about how this could shift the outcome of every race in this state. that's when "morning joe" returns. it's the all-new subway series menu! 12 irresistible new subs... like #11 subway club. piled with turkey, ham and roast beef.

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the michigan supreme court has ruled a proposed state constitutional amendment that would protect abortion rights should be placed on november's ballot. the ruling yesterday overrides last week's party line vote by the boardcanvassers, which blocked the certification of the proposed amendment. 750,000 michigan residents signed the proposal. more than any signed proposal in the state's history. michigan joins several other states where voters will have a say this fall unto what extent abortion is legal post roe v. wade. votes also scheduled in california, montana, vermont, and kentucky. joining us now, democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin of michigan and former chief of staff to the dcdccc, adrienne

elrod. we'll get context from adrienne, but, elissa, how does your race feel a day after this decision? >> all of us know this is an issue that galvanized people. it's galvanized voters who might already been pro-choice, but it's really galvanized voters who consider themselves pro-life, they just want exceptions, flexibility. for us in michigan, it's something we, you know, believed in, and we got signatures. when the supreme court came out yesterday for a lot of us down ballot, it was a very important moment. >> congresswoman, this has become, in many races, the defining issue ahead of the midterms. tell us a little bit about, are you hearing from democrats and republicans alike about this, but, also, what are republicans' offices in michigan saying about this issue? we've had many conversations about the gubernatorial candidate there who said it'd be an opportunity for underage girls to have a baby. >> i come from a district overwhelmingly pro life,

republican leaning district, but it's been amazing how many republican women have come up to me and talked about how, look, i could never personally have an abortion, but i've never walked in another woman's shoes and wouldn't tell another woman how to live her life. what we're seeing is a division between those women and the elected republican leaders in the state and the candidates in the state. the republicans are the dog that caught the car on this issue. they literally have been preaching about this and talking about it in black and white terms. as soon as it happened, they realize politics doesn't make great policy. particularly, women understand there's a million reasons when you desperately want a child, you may not be able to carry it to term. 1931 ban does not speak to the realities that women go through. >> i'm sure what you're hearing is what i'm hearing. i come from a pro-life area. most people i grew up with consider themselves pro-life. so many of them checked out on the radicalism, the radicalism in michigan, where you have somebody running for governor saying a 14-year-old girl being

raped is a perfect example of why she needs to carry the rapist's baby and have the state compel her to have a forced birth. why 10-year-old girls are fleeing the state of michigan. this happened a couple weeks ago. we had a representative from south carolina practically in tears, saying, i know i voted for this. a doctor told me about a young woman who might die because of what we did here. this is crazy, people. you need to catch your breath and back up. again, these are pro-life people saying, enough. yesterday, i saw a clip, i think "the recount" posted it. south carolina state senate, they're debating a proposal that would ban nearly all abortions in the state. they rejected that. opposition came from every democrat, female republicans and some male republicans. they kept it from overcoming a filibuster.

i want you, though, to listen to state sensor senator, pro-life republican from south carolina. listen to what she said about the lack of an exception for rape and incest. the speech is going viral. here's part of what she said. >> why am i talking about this? isn't she pro-life? yes, i'm pro-life. i'm also pro-life of the mother, the life she has with her children who are already born. i care about the children who are forced into adulthood, that was made up by legislature full of men so they can take a victory lap and feel good about it. you want children raising children who will most likely suffer domestic violence and live in poverty. but you don't care because you've done your job. you will forget about them once they are born. you will fight my legislation on foster homes and adoption.

you will not support legislation to stop sex trafficking and pornography. you will not support my legislation for free meals for all children in schools. you're not going to help me on that. if you want to believe that god is wanting you to push a bill through with no exception that kills mothers and ruins the lives of children, lets mothers bring home babies bury them, i think you're miscommunicating with god, or maybe you're not communicating with him at all. >> slow clap for her. let me say, as a southern baptist that grew up reading the bible, maybe back-sliding baptist, but i know the bible, jesus never once talked about abortion. it was happening back in ancient times. it was happening during his time. never once mentioned it. for people perverting the gospel of jesus christ down to one

issue, it's heresy. if you don't believe me, if that makes you angry, why don't you do something you haven't done in a long time? open the bible. open the new testament. read the red letters. you won't see it there. yet, there are people who are using jesus as a shield to make 10-year-old raped girls go through a living and breathing hell here on earth. they've also conveniently overlooked the parts of the new testament where jesus talks about taking care of the needy. taking care of those who are helpless, who live a hopeless life. because they believe, these state legislatures believe life ends at fertilization and ends at childbirth. katty, what a powerful message yesterday from a southern, pro-life conservative

republican, who i guarantee you, speaks for so many southern, pro-life conservative republican women. >> she echoes the feeling that the supreme court's ruling didn't take into account, the complexities that would happen after it made that ruling. and the tragic circumstances of women around the country, whether it is a 10-year-old girl in ohio or a woman who has a pregnancy and the fetus is badly deformed and she needs to have an extraction. the ruling didn't allow for the human complexities of that. that's partly what is coming back to bite republicans as we head into the midterms. adrienne, that is not the first lawmaker we've seen stand up and say, "you know what, this is too brutal. it's having unintended consequences." she's speaking from a religious point of view, but there have

been politicians in the south, local lawmakers also speaking from a legal point of view, this just makes them feel, even if they are pro-life, this ruling and the consequences, perhaps unintended consequences of this ruling have made their feel deeply uncomfortable. >> yeah, you're exactly right, katty. she is not the first. she certainly won't be the last. i think we'll hear this from more and more conservative republicans between now and the midterms and probably after that. this is a law that's on the books. the supreme court voted for it. it is not going away any time soon. this is something republicans have been so focused on for 20, 30 years. to an extent, since roe was enacted into law in 1973. it is coming back to bite them. the point you made, they didn't think through the repercussions. the life of the woman. all the circumstances women have to go through when they are taking care of their own reproductive health. they did not think this through. what we are seeing electorally is how this is playing out in

certain demographics. latino men, for example, a demographic democrats have struggled with over the last several presidential election cycles. we've lost more and more latino men. they say, in certain areas, that they'll only support a pro-choice candidate. i think some republicans thought, oh, latino men tend to lean more catholic, more conservative. that ended up actually not being the case. you're seeing this among key demographics almost across the board, across the board in the electorate. younger voters are becoming more registered. you're seeing, again, among some of the latino men, black men, key demographics that democrats need to win in not just 2022 but 2024. >> gene. >> yes, when you hear a south carolina republican speaking like that, the republicans -- >> south carolina. >> i mean, talk about stepping in it. they have stepped in it this time.

i have a quick question for congresswoman slotkin, which is, how do you quantify this? how much, how many points does this mean for democratic candidates this fall in michigan, to have apportion on the ballot in this way? >> yeah. i mean, it is significant. it is a turnout issue, right? i represent michigan state university. the dorms just came back. the students just came back. watching us do voter registration, there is a ton of single issue voters among our youngest voters who are registering. maybe they wouldn't for a midterm, but they are registering because they want to vote on our ballot initiative. the most interesting thing i've seen representing a republican-leaning district is republican women, right? these republican women who i think were taken for granted as being part of the pro-life community. maybe they are pro-life, but they are not willing to let their daughters and granddaughters grow up with fewer rights than they had for their own body. i think it is totally, you know,

not by coincidence that the woman we highlighted in the state senate, she's a woman, right? women are really feeling this issue, you know, in a way that many of them have got that level of rage just under the surface that we're trying to manage, especially in a place like michigan where we've been talking about personal freedom for 2 1/2 years. the freedom not to get vaccinated, not to wear a mask, right? that's been a conversation. no one is missing the irony. >> you don't have to wear a ms mask. by the way, says the republican, if gets raped while she is away at camp or somewhere else, if she gets raped, you have no say. you can't talk to your preacher. can't talk to your doctor. you can't talk to your mental health care provider. you can't talk to a counselor. you all can't get together and decide what is best for your 13-year-old girl, your

14-year-old daughter. in fact, you have a wingnut saying, "oh, being raped and having the rapist's baby will be, right, healing?" >> yeah. >> to have a 13-year-old girl raped is going to be -- that process is going to be healing for her? >> who is this person? >> it's sick. >> yeah. >> by the way, it's not just her. this is what republicans in state legislatures across america are saying and doing. it's freakish. >> it is. >> i'm sorry. what say you? it's just bizarre. what's wrong with these people? >> i can't believe we're talking about this. >> there is a feeling, how is this really the conversation? i will say, also, i'm running against someone who also has the sort of no exceptions idea. no exception for rapes and incest, none of that. what we're seeing now is those in tough races are now trying to change their stance. he stripped his website. he's trying to cover up. that's a trend i think we'll

see. >> we wanted to ask you about -- >> blake masters? >> we want to ask you about mar-a-lago in a second. democrats have a lot to work with, wins, a lot of legislation, and these two negative strains, roe, what is going on with mar-a-lago with president trump. how do they sympathize this into a powerful message? >> look, you have to go out there. you can't only talk about the bad things. you have to talk about the good things. the great thing about president biden is he has a lot of legislative accomplishments. four legislative bills in 20 months. talk about what you've done for the american people, but also draw the contrast. roe is a galvanizing issue. you have republicans who are erasing this from their website, trying to run away from it. then you have some who are really leaning in, who seem to be tone deaf. look, it is always difficult for the party in power to, you know, hold on to the house and senate going into a midterm cycle, but i do think all of this will mitigate the losses we might have had for roe was on the ballot. >> it is clear the roe ruling changed the calculus of what democrats think is possible this

call. congressman, i want to ask you as a former cia analyst, what has been coming out from the justice department, the documents the president and his team took from the white house and stored at mar-a-lago, refused to give them back when asked for them for more than a year. as a cia analyst, what do you make of what you've seen and heard? >> former cia analyst, when you have the cover sheets, we put it on top of classified information, and the pictures of the highly classified documents, it makes your stomach turn a little bit. i think what people sometimes forget, since 2000, we've had 11 or 12 high-profile investigations, fbi investigations of sometimes very senior people in the u.s. government, from both sides of the aisle, who have been accused of mishandling classified information. including former cia, you know, chiefs.

very important people. this is a process that we have to let play out. there's going to be a lot of speculation on what is in there. i haven't seen them. we haven't seen them. we have to let the process go. what i think is extremely important, though, is to understand what was in the documents and, frankly, what is at risk for our sources and methods. people forget, to get that information, to have it be that highly classified, we either had a human being who sold out his country and told us some of the secrets, someone very high up, we've been listening to someone's phones and we know sensitive information going on. it risks, a, that source of information, but it could risk people's lives for, you know, the folks who actually procured that for us. >> democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin of michigan, thank you for being on with us. adrienne elrod, eugene robinson, thank you, both, as well. great to see you. it is two minutes past the top of the hour. we turn back now to our coverage of the passing of queen

elizabeth ii. nbc's lester holt has a look at the special relationship she had with the united states during her 70-year reign. >> reporter: we've seen presidents come and go, but for 70 years, she was always right there. queen elizabeth, across the pond but close to so many american hearts. >> the queen has just left buckingham palace. >> reporter: it was love at first sight. her coronation watched by millions coast to coast. >> we are delighted to be here. >> reporter: on her first visit as queen, she reveled in an all american welcome, a state dinner hosted by president eisenhower and a ticker tape parade in new york. regal yet relatable. the young monarch leaving an enduring impression. since then, america's royal obsession only growing. as queen elizabeth charmed us.

including celebrating america's pastime. >> it was great. >> can we see her? >> i mean, she came all the way from england. >> it's wonderful. meet the great lady of the world. >> reporter: and watching horse racing. >> my heart is still pounding. >> oh, i was just overwhelmed. i got chills. >> reporter: our fascination extending to her children and grandchildren, through the highs and the lows. on america's 200th birthday, she spoke about the special ties between the u.s. and uk. >> your declaration of independence broke that link, but it did not for long break our friendship. >> reporter: and then a dance with president ford. she met 13 presidents in all. >> i'm confident that our common values and shared interests will continue to unite us. >> reporter: helping draw in more american visitors than any

other country. after 9/11, she famously had the royal guards play the "star spangled banner" in front of buckingham palace to show our tight bond remained unbroken. america remembering england's queen and celebrating her incredible legacy. >> you know -- >> beautiful. >> -- incredible legacy. funny story. she was the most diplomatic lady of all time. 70 years, she has to sit around, make polite conversation. when people say stupid things, she has to smile and deal with it. the one time i heard the diplomatic touch breaking was when she went to a baseball game. the baseball game we saw there in the clip, mike barnicle. she sat there politely through nine innings. one of her hosts turned to her and said, well, your majesty, what do you think about the game of baseball? she looked out, sniffed and said, "well, nothing really

happened, did it?" >> it is a really good question. >> such an american game, isn't it? >> i think it was camden yards. >> she went up there with bush xli. she was perplexed, why people would stand and watch nothing. >> it takes forever. >> it takes forever. we have jonathan lemire, katty kay, jon meacham still with us. >> and joining the conversation, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. >> mike is here, as well. jon, because we're history nerds, i go back to, as yesterday was her last day as the queen, i go back to her first day. this was winston churchill on the 7th of february, 1952. you know, at that point, people thought churchill was beyond his pride. anthony eden and other conservatives were scratching and clawing, thing the old man

lost too many steps. we'll be able to push him out. then he had to deliver a message on the queen, and i just loved the ending of the speech. he said, "tomorrow, the proclamation of her sovereignty will command the loyalty of her native land, and all other parts of the british empire, commonwealth and empire. i, whose youth was past in the agust, unchallenged and tranquil glories of the victorian era may well feel a thrill and invoking once more the prayer and the anthem, "god save the queen." >> you know, one of churchill's friends said, when winston is right, he's right, but when he was wrong, my god. he was right there. i think, to some extent, her majesty was an embodiment of churchill's basic view of the

special relationship, which was, there had to be one. it was in britain's interest. it was in freedom's interest. it was in western liberalism's interest. you know, churchill said of franklin roosevelt, no lover studied their mistress as i did franklin roosevelt. presidents loved being with her. they would -- katty was pointing out, i think, yesterday, they melted around her, these tough guys with nuclear arms and, you know, rising to the top of the hurtly burly republic, as churchill said. they'd meet this old lady and fall all over themselves. part of it, presidents are, by and large, history nerds, too. they understood that when they were with her, they were with a woman whose personal identity and her public vision had been formed in the crucible of war. exactly 2ace years ago

right now, london was bombed. she gave the radio address, god willing, all will be well. she was reassuring us when she was 14 years old. i think that, in this case, the child was the father of the woman. let me read one thing, if i can. mika will probably doze off. >> i'm good. >> she'll give me a second. mika is kind of like the queen, she watches this and tries to, you know, endure. so here's what churchill said. this is a paragraph that he put in or suggested to the queen for her coronation address on the night she became queen. she was crowned in westminster abby. she's gone through this sacred right, been elevated to basically being one of god's

human agents. this is what she said. parliamentary institutions with their free speech and respect for the rights of minorities and the inspiration of a broad tolerance in thought and expression, broad tolerance in thought and expression, all this we conceive to be a precious part of our way of life and outlook. that was said in the middle -- what was happening in america in june 1953? who was riding high still? joe mccarthy. this was a statement of conviction of a tradition that, in many ways, began with magna carta in 1215. the rule of law, that individual liberties, these mixed constitutions of monarchy and democracy, that however

complicated, not only should they endure, but they must endure. >> wow. >> yeah. let me go -- i think we have ed luce with us. ed, i wanted to pick up with something that you said yesterday. here, you have, in 1953, young queen elizabeth pushing back in the most subtle of ways against mccarthyism in america. you said something yesterday that struck me. here, you had a woman who presided over a government that was transformed from an ancient, crumbling empire in 1952, to a vibrant, post modern, extraordinarily diverse nation in 2022, which despite its

economic challenges that every country on the globe is facing right now, remains one of the most powerful economies in the world. always punches above its weight culturally and has soft power that few could have imagined in the darkest days of the 1970s. >> yeah, i think, you know, britain is no longer a world power in the genuine sense of the term. it is a second-tier global power, at most. but it is a cultural superpower. i think, actually, one of the best expressions of that was the 2012 olympics in london and the celebration of a very diverse britain. it annoyed some people, the prestige that was done, but the queen enjoyed it, playing a little skit with daniel craig. you know, that was a really good example of her being with the times. just an expression of how much has changed, until a century

ago, if a monarch died, the litigants, people who had cases in court, had to scrap their cases and restart from the beginning after the period of mourning. if you're about to win your case, that was pretty annoying. that's how dominant it used to be. now, it is just flags at half-mast, public expressions of sentiment, and it is all genuine. >> it is. >> by the way, we leave it to the brit to declare great britain a second-tier power. just the negativity of the british people toward their country. >> okay. >> it is overwhelming. they're not a second-tier power. >> i just want to tell this story before we get to a very special guest. former royal protection officer, richard griffin, told a story that revealed a humorous side to the late monarch. the former bodyguard for the

queen recalled the story last june on sky news. >> normally, picnic sites, you meet nobody. there were hikers, and the queen would stop and say hello. two americans on a walking holiday. it was clear from the moment we first stopped, they hadn't recognized the queen, which is fine. the american was telling the queen where he came from, where they were going to next. where he'd been to in britain. i could see it coming. sure enough, he said, where do you live? she said, well, i live in london. i have a holiday home the other side of the hills. he said, well, how often have you been coming up here? oh, she said, i've been coming up here ever since i was a little girl, so over 80 years. you could see the clock ticking. if you've been coming up 80 years, you must have met the queen. quick as a flash, well, i haven't, but dick here meets her

regularly. the guy said, you've met the queen, what is she like? because i was with her a long time, and i could pull her leg, i said, she can be cantankerous at times, but she has a lovely sense of humor. the next thing i knew, this guy comes around, put his arm around my shoulder. before i could see what was happening, he gets his camera, gives it to the queen and says, can you take a picture of the two of us? anyway, we swapped places and i took a picture of them with the queen. never let on. we waved good-bye. her majesty said, i'd love to be a fly on the wall when he shows the photographs to friends in america, and hopefully someone tells him who i am. >> that is a great story. >> that's a peek you don't get. >> i love it. >> talk about the restrain and stiff upper lip. great to get a look behind the curtain. >> this is special. >> bring in richard luce. good to have you with us, sir. your thoughts as you think back on your relationship and time

spent with queen elizabeth. >> well, great, first of all, to be on your program. and to join my son, edward. >> aw. >> the job that i had, which i started exactly 22 years ago, was as lord chamberlain. the job of the lord chamberlain to the queen is to be head of the household and to be accountable to the queen for the performance of all the staff on the household, and to be her principal adviser. in a way, you were a kind of chairman of the staff, and i had to lead the policy for the queen and to give her advice on any problems she might face. >> lord luce, it is katty kay here. one of the things that mystified us about the queen is her commitment to duty, and the idea she had all of these endless duties that she did 24/7, 365

days a year, and she never seemed, at least in public, to complain about them or get fed up with them. you had a glimpse behind the curtain. did you ever sense that what we saw on the outside, that incredible stoicism and tolerance for all she had to do and the people she had to meet, did it waiver in private? how did she deal with that? >> we have to bring in the duke of edinburgh. the remarkable side of this story is how they complemented each other. i had an office next door to the duke of edinburgh during the course of that job, and i would often seek his advice. the queen would often say, look, we've got a problem on this, that, and the other. before you give me your final advice, will you go and see the duke of edinburgh? have a chat with him, and come back with your joint view. and so his role in helping her

through this job cannot be underestimated. it was quite remarkable. a great deal is owed to him for the success of these remarkable 70 years for the queen. >> ed luce, this is such a special moment. you're writing about my father, and now we're asking you to interview your father. so you have the next question, ed. >> yeah, this is a surreal moment that i guess i'll make the most of. dad, you've had two female bosses. you were in politics, of course, and in the government in the '80s. of course, you served the queen. which of your two female bosses was easier to work for? >> that's a difficult question, edward, to ask me. you could not have had two more different people all together.

than the queen and margaret thatcher. indeed, it is fascinating to look at their particular getting on together. margaret thatcher was very tough, task master. she really put a great deal of pressure on our munsters and ministers and tested us out every day. she could be very fierce with us in front of other people, in front of other ministers. that was her way of testing us out. whereas, the queen had a quite opposite effect, which was this, if you were in her presence, you always wanted to do your best for her. she didn't have to say anything almost. you simply wanted to give it your best. if you made a mistake, you'd go and apologize. above all, what she said to me right at the beginning is, "i

want you to create a nice atmosphere for the staff, because if they work in a nice atmosphere, they will give up their best to the monarchy. that is the best thing to do." when i arrived in the job, of course, she had already created that atmosphere. and so it was a very different leadership, form of leadership between those two people. two very different people. >> lord luce, joe scarborough cure. curious, can you provide insight, beyond what we've seen on "the crown," about her relationship with margaret thatcher? "the crown" depicts it starting in a difficult manner. by the way, she appreciated the changes, many of the changes that thatcher brought to britain. what can you tell us about that relationship? lord luce? >> i'm sorry.

i actually missed that question. >> the question was, could you give us some insight on the relationship between prime minister thatcher and queen elizabeth? >> well, i think, just to remember, for two days now, just before her death, she had 15 prime ministers with her. all of them different. when they had their weekly meetings, which there was a regular feature of the relationship, not even i would know the outcome of that meeting, unless there was a decision that had to be passed on. it was a very private meeting. as far as margaret thatcher is concerned, i've actually -- when i was vice chancellor of the independent university of buckingham, had the queen at the university to open a business psychological. margaret thatcher was my chancellor. they had lunch with me together, with my wife, rose.

i can tell you, the queen was very amused, i think, by the character of margaret thatcher, by her strong views and strong character, and was absolutely in admiration. at the same time, probably not always at ease, particularly on commonwealth matters. >> yeah. mike, far more amused, i'm sure, than members of her cabinet. >> i'm sure. i'm sure. lord luce, 15 different pime ministers served the queen and the crown, and we as americans never get a glimpse as to whether she had any strong feelings, differences in ideology between the prime minister's governments and the philosophies of the various prime ministers. do you ever get any sense of disappointment or disagreement from the queen about whoever was serving her in the country?

>> well, it was a very confidential relationship. remember, bagehot once said, her job is to be consulted, to advise, and to warn. a queen in today's age are unlike the days of queen elizabeth i, it's above party politics. so she never interferes in the party political scene, but we'll be reflective in our meetings with prime ministers who have already said to us, people like major in public this morning, mrs. may and others, that she gave a lot of wisdom because of her lengthy experience. having worked with so many other governments and prime ministers. but above all, the most important message was that she was above party politics. that was the strength and is the

strength of the monarchy. >> lord richard luce, thank you so much. a great honor to have you here with us this morning. i must ask you the same question i would ask dr. brzezinski at the end of all of his interviews. tell us something about young edward. was he a difficult child to raise? >> sounds like he might have been. >> that is asking a very, very difficult question. because he and my other son, his brother, were very lively at school. i'm choosing my words rather carefully. and he was a challenge, i think, for the headmaster of any school he was at. >> oh, boy. >> but there was a frustrated talent there, and that's what i'm so glad to see today. >> all right. thank you so much, lord luce. >> love it. >> great talking to you. we're now going to debrief your son. thank you so much for being with us. ed's dad, thank you, lord luce. ed, talking about these prime

ministers, i find it fascinating that the queen, obviously, conservative with a small "c." a woman of deep faith, of custom, of convention, raised in the most conservative of settings growing up. again, moved freely toward a post modern britain. but i think back in reading about her, think back, one of her favorite prime ministers was a prime minister that tories tried to brand as a communist sympathizer. that is harold wilson. she was -- she was, truly, apolitical. thatcher, at times, rubbed her the wrong way. a fierce monarchist. here, you have this left-wing labor prime minister who she absolutely adored.

>> yeah, harold wilson, i think, was, you know, more working class. he was from the north of england. i think, unlike thatcher, who was both of those two, he probably didn't wag his finger at the queen. they probably just had relatively common sensical, practical conversations, which, by all accounts, is what the queen referred. she did not like being lectured. particularly, you know, by people who had been born after she became queen, which wasn't the case with harold wilson. the only president she didn't meet, interestingly, was lbj. she met all 13 others. there were 14 during her period. not lbj, and that is the period of harold wilson, when harold wilson was labor prime minister of britain. it was the one period where britain didn't fight alongside america in a war, the vietnam war. >> yeah.

we have lord meacham still with us and mike barnicle, you have a question for lord meacham. >> yes, i do. honor to have him here. >> uh-huh. >> jon, before we let you go, it strikes me, yesterday, today, and will for a while, that we have a woman that we're talking about who presided over a government for 70 years. she did her duty dearly, literally, dearly for over 25,000 days in her reign. we have no match for that. i'm wondering, if you look at her life and the way she behaved on the world stage, she was reliable, she was responsible, she never embarrassed herself or her government, there's something that is always missing in american politics when you compare the way we behave politically to this formidable woman of history.

>> i think the one lesson for us is what was she devoted to? she was devoted to an unwritten constitution that was, for all of its imperfections, was, in fact, founded on the rights of the individual. the declaration of rights in the late 17th century. we had our declaration of independence, but our declaration of independence, to some extent, to a large extent, grew out of an english-speaking tradition of individual liberty. and what was her brief? what was her cause? her cause was continuity, not for continuity sake, but continuity of a system that enabled liberty to flourish. it might not always flourish as one would wish, but the system

itself was not abused by an individual or an individual interest to their own ends. she genuinely put a common good ahead of personal gain. >> jon meacham, that was good. >> high praise. >> ed luce. >> thank you, your majesty. >> from a brzezinski. >> wow. >> sometimes i'm so bored. >> i'm done. >> we know ed luce is otherwise known as typically difficult. great to have you on. >> lively. >> lively, too. >> typically difficult. thank you, too, for being on this morning and bringing your dad along. still ahead on "morning joe," u.s. ambassador to the united kingdom, jane hartley, joins us to reflect on the legacy of queen elizabeth ii. and if it changes anything with america's special relationship. also ahead, less than 60 days away from the november

election, the chairman of the democratic senatorial campaign committee, senator gary peters, joins the table on how he hopes to turn the democrats' major lead in cash on hand into wins at the ballot box. plus, after the doj's appeal of the florida judge's special master ruling, one former cia officer says, the more we learn, the less we know. that former operative will be our guest ahead. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. the tenth pick is in the new all-american club. that's a “club” i want to join! let's hear from simone. chuck, that's a club i want to join! i literally just said that. i like her better than you the new subway series. what's your pick? time. it's life's most precious commodity, especially when you have metastatic breast cancer. when your time is threatened, it's hard to invest in your future.

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he also paid tribute at the british embassy, stopping by with the first lady and signing a book of condolences. joining us now is u.s. ambassador to the united kingdom, jane hartley. it is very good to have you on the show, madame ambassador, this morning. if you could tell us your thoughts on the legacy of queen elizabeth ii. >> well, when we found out yesterday, i was at winfield house with british and american staff. people were really heartbroken. although, i think we knew this day was coming, somehow, it just seemed too soon. she was truly an icon, an icon here but i also think around the world. i was lucky enough to be here in time for platinum jubilee. what amazed me then, the streets were lined with people that had come from all over the uk but,

frankly, all out of respect, out of admiration for this amazing, amazing woman. there were many americans there, too. i remember a story during that time in "the new york times," where an american woman from california said, you know, "she's our queen, too." >> ambassador, we talk so much about the special relationship between the united states and the united kingdom, and it certainly is there. from your interactions with the queen and from the interactions of previous american ambassadors to the united kingdom, how did the queen work to keep that special relationship? >> well, i'll tell you my own personal experience, if that's all right. i came a few months ago, and there is a -- every ambassador, the first thing they do is present credentials to the queen. so i did that, as well. it is a quite formal process.

usually, there's a horse and carriage that picks you up and drives you to buckingham palace. it happened to be the hottest day in london history when i did that, so the horses couldn't come. the queen insisted on sending her car, which was so kind of her. that's really who she was. in my audience with her, of course, it was substantive. i think sometimes people lose sight of how substantive she was, policy driven, how much she cared about issues. but she was also warm and kind. she was very worried that i was settling into london in the right way, that winfield house was fine. she perked up when i told her i had brought my dog. she was a leader, but she was also an amazing human being. >> ambassador, lovely to hear your description of her. we do hear from people that she is very good, despite being the queen of england and all the other titles, united kingdom and

all the other titles she has, she was remarkably good at putting people at their ease. i don't know if that stemmed from a sense of humility or natural diplomacy and good eq, but she was look at it. good at it. i wonder how your role as ambassador to the united kingdom will change now that you will be ambassador in a country that has king charles iii. what are you looking at? what are you preparing for? what are you analyzing in terms of the changes that might take place in the kingdom? >> listen, when you lose an icon like she truly was, i think the whole country is grieving. frankly, i think the whole world is grieving. my uk and u.s. staff here, everybody was in tears yesterday. frankly, i was, too. but i don't see the special relationship changing in any way.

the new king has the same sense of dignity and the same sense of duty, i think. i think, you know, that's what is so, so important. what did bring me to tears this week was that the queen met with the new prime minister, prime minister truss, in order to have her form a new government. and i just thought, my god, this is -- this is duty. this is responsibility. to the very last, she thought she had to do that. and i think king charles will have the exact same sense of duty. >> u.s. ambassador to the uk, jane hartley. thank you very much for joining us this morning. coming up, the republican senate campaign committee has burned through almost all of its cash. >> yeah, but, you know what, though, on the good side of what

rick scott is doing, he is saying he is going to raise taxes on poor people. >> that's nice. >> cut taxes for rich people. and get rid of social security. >> good branding. >> and medicare in five years. it is great branding, right? this guy has had a hell of a run. >> what a message. >> flaming supernova who is about to burn out. >> all right. two months to the midterms, can the democrats take advantage of this? >> why would you promise to get rid of social security and medicare in five years? make them fight for its very life every five years. >> chairman of -- >> checks are wasteful. >> -- the campaign committee, senator gary peters. >> i'll ask him if democrats want to get rid of social security and medicare every five years. >> join us on that. and the rules from the michigan state supreme court ordering an abortion amendment be put on the ballot. >> i wonder how that will turn out. >> we're back in a moment.

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say it with me one time. >> show me the money. >> say it like you mean it, brother. i want to hear you say it. >> no, no, show you the money. >> show me the money. >> show me the money. >> yes! louder. >> show me the money! >> yes, you got to yell that [ bleep ]. >> show me the money! >> i need to feel you, jerry. >> show me the money! >> jerry, you better yell. >> show me the money! show me the money! >> show me the money. that is what a growing number of republicans are asking of florida senator rick scott, the chair of the gop's senate campaign fundraising arm. despite raising a record $181

million through july. >> that's great, because that's really -- >> that's a huge amount of money. >> that'll help them in october when you need the money. fantastic. >> the group reportedly has just $23 million left wa, wa, wa. >> the democratic committee has a rise in the supreme court's decision to overturn roe v. wade. joining us, the chairman of the democratic committee, senator gary peters of michigan. >> listen, we know you're rick scott's counterpoint, and i won't ask you tough questions. but so many things that rick scott has done, i mean, i'm not even talking about, you know, defrauding, well, medicaid? >> okay. >> did he defraud medicaid? i forget now. but you've got the head of the republican senate committee --

and, again, the questions write themselves -- who is promising -- and if i have this wrong, please, somebody correct me -- promising to abolish social security and medicare after five years. then making senators who support social security and medicare fight to restart them. did i misstate that? did i mischaracterize what he wants to do? >> no, i think -- >> here are the tough questions. >> okay. >> do democrats want to abolish social security and medicare every five years? >> absolutely not. >> are you sure? i'm going to press you on this. rick scott, the head of the republican senate committee, says that republican senate candidates should push to abolish social security and medicare. >> absolutely not. >> what about raising taxes on working class, middle class americans? rick scott says that working class and middle class americans are getting a free ride, and they need to start paying more taxes. do democrats support making working class and meddle class americans pay more taxes?

>> no, we do not. it's part of the clear contrast, what we're seeing. >> let me ask you another question. >> okay. >> what about 14-year-old girls -- >> you're badgering him. >> i am badgering him, but this is important. you have a republican putting for governor in your home state who is saying a 14-year-old girl being raped, being raped by her uncle, is a perfect example of why she should be forced by the state, compelled to have the rapist's baby. do democrats support that? >> no, we do not. >> one final question. is this the most extreme republican party you've ever seen in your lifetime? >> no question, it is. >> again, these questions answer themselves. >> they do answer themselves. there's no question. that's what we're seeing across the country. >> seriously, what's at stake in this election, given the fact you've got the head of the republican senate committee saying he wants to abolish social security and medicare, he wants to raise taxes on working class americans, he wants little

girls who get raped by members of their family to be forced to have the rapist's baby? >> that's what is at stake. those clear contrasts. they're out of touch with where the majority of the american people are. elections do matter. we've seen that. which is why it is so critical we hold the majority in the senate and, quite frankly, because of this contrast between these candidates who are as extreme as you are outlining right now, it's why i think we can pick up seats. we're working to have, hopefully, 52 democratic senators, but we've got to get everybody engaged. even with these extreme positions, a lot of the races we're running in are states that are tough. these are going to be close races. >> by the way, they're tough because of the inflation. they're tough because of an uneven economy. extraordinary number of new jobs being created. it is still tough out there for working class americans, for middle class americans, because inflation continues -- well, it doesn't continue to rise, but it is the highest it's been in 40 years. what's the democratic answer to

that? >> look at what we've been doing. look at our recent inflation reduction act we passed. bring down the cost of prescription drugs. this is something we've been fighting for a long time, to allow medicare to negotiate with the big drug companies. >> how many republicans voted for that? >> zero republicans. >> for that? >> zero republicans voted. >> zero. >> zero republicans voted to bring down the price of press prescription drugs. >> what about insulin? i have a son that's type 1 diabetic. >> we have a cap. >> did republicans vote to get that for my son and for other people who are aren't on medicare. >> not one republican voted to reduce drug costs. >> by the way, i'm being serious here. why the hell would they not do this? people know my son has type 1 diabetes and i have people in pretty good neighborhoods coming up to me, economically, middle

class, slightly upper middle class neighborhoods coming up to me, i'm walking around, you know or when i'm on the beach with my metal detector trying to get some coins or something, and they will say to me, just say, i know your son has type 1 diabetes, my son's a type 1 diabetic, i can't afford to pay this. they're literally price gouging us for the same thing that used to call a fraction, and it's the same thing. the insulin's not gotten better. it's the same thing. pharmaceutical companies are gouging americans and american families who are diabetics. why would every single member of the senate vote for that? >> clearly, the republicans who voted no, who don't support it are on the side of pharmaceutical companies who continue to have the huge profits that they're getting and this is what the election is about. who is fighting for folks to

lower cost at a time to lower inflation. how are we going to deal with climate change? how are we going to make sure the supply chains are working. we are able to move forward on gun safety legislation. the democrats over the last few weeks have moved significant legislation and for the most part without republican help or in some cases as you mentioned with zero republican support. we have a very clear contrast in the election. voters are going to go in the fall and say there is a choice between people who are trying to make the world a better place to help americans with the struggles that they have in everyday life and republicans who are basically not willing to do that and as you mentioned, take away fundamental rights from women when it comes to reproductive freedom with incredibly extreme positions that will be rejected by the american people and we'll see it at the polls and a surge of voters who understand what's at stake in this election and these

are going to be tight races. we need people to be engaged in the next two months and we continue to raise resources and defend the senate.org to make sure we have the resources to fight against the billionaires and others who are supporting the super pacs that are pouring money against our democratic candidates in our key states. we need a grassroots effort in order to win. we will not only hold the majority. >> i know you're adding $16 million or so to defend the majority fund now. you mentioned the tight races and even in the states where there are extreme candidates or terrible candidates if you look at george a pennsylvania, ohio or arizona. those are still very competitive races and most within the margin and not arizona yet. where is your focus as head of the campaign committee? are there particular races where you are dialed in? >> my number one job is the chair and doing the incumbents'

back, and when we will do that we will still be at 50 and we will go on the offense and the states that are key for us are georgia, as you mentioned, we have to hold george a nevada, new hampshire, colorado we are also watching and we can also go on the offense and we have great opportunities. pennsylvania is looking very good for us right now and it's about getting out voters and raising the resources that we need. we've got wisconsin. we've got north carolina, ohio, florida. there are places that we can focus on and we're feeling good about that and right now coming off the summer in labor day we're in a really good position and we're in a fight and rolling up our sleeves to turn out people and as you very well know, midterms tend not to have the same kind of turnout that you have in a presidential year and that's a challenge, with issues like we have with a republican attack on reproductive freedom for women, we believe that is a highly motivating factor. >> how galvanizing has that been

to a league who says she just sees it objectively in her numbers and her support and we've seen polling from nbc and elsewhere that shows a huge swing among independents and suburban women on the issue of abortion. are your candidates going to push on that through midterm election day? >> they will. absolutely, and the contrast between their positions and the republicans who are running against who have taken extreme positions and no exceptions for rape. no exceptions for incest. the health of the mother. that's not where american people are. we're seeing that surge, even in places recently in kansas. kansas is not perceived as a pro-choice state and yet it was clear that voters are very concerned about these fundamental rights that are being taken away from women and from families. this is a family issue. >> this november's midterms is the first major election conducted since a number of republican state legislatures tightened access to the ballot

voting reforms under the guise of donald trump's big lies and how much of a concern is that for you as you look at the landscape and we know these are going to be to make sure people are able to vote and those votes are counted correctly? >> it does make a challenge in some of the states and we're organizing around that. it's absolutely horrible that republicans are trying to make it more difficult for people to exercise their fundamental right to vote, but we're not going to let that get in the way and hopefully that will motivate voters to get out to vote and understand that you have a party that is extreme. a party that's trying to undermine our democracy and make it more difficult for people to exercise their fundamental rights and to do everything it takes to get to the polls and make sure their voiceser heard lout and clear and send a signal to these extremists that that's not where america is. >> democratic senator gary

peters. thank you for putting up -- >> i was badgering and student loan forgiveness if you don't take care of the massive inflation for college cost which is is outrageous. we'll talk about that next time because alex is screaming in my ear. >> you are getting screamed at. the justice department's appeal to grant a special master. >> queen elizabeth's relationships with 13 sitting u.s. presidents that she met over the years has shaped our diplomatic ties with the uk. we'll be right back. uk. we'lbel right back. ♪♪ giorgio, look. the peanut butter box is here. ralph, that's the chewy pharmacy box with our flea and tick meds. it's not peanut butter. i know, i know. but every time the box comes, we get the peanut butter. yes, because mom takes the meds out of the box and puts them in the peanut butter.

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♪♪ ♪♪

the american -- is incredibly fast. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> a message. you want to look at it together? let's have a look. >> hey, prince harry, do you remember when you told us to bring it at the invictus games? >> be careful what you wish for. >> boom. >> oh, really? please. >> boom. >> all right. a light-hearted moment from queen elizabeth as she helped her grandson prince harry promote the 2016 invictus games. we'll also go live to london where the royal salute for the queen is happening.

>> fire! >> number three! >> fire! [ 21-gun salute ]

>> fire! >> number one gun. fire! [ 21-gun salute ] >> number two gun! fire! number three gun! fire! >> number four gun! fire! [ 21-gun salute ] >> we are watching, obviously, continuing tributes for queen elizabeth ii. katty kay, you know, when we --

when we talked to keir and you and others that we know, friends that have grown up in britain and this subject comes up, you all, of course, are professional as always, but we do notice a bit of a halt in your voice. this, i know you can't describe it completely to american, but try to talk about what exactly what this means for -- for people that grew up in great britain, and grew up loving the queen. >> so i've been on tv for the last 24 hours it seems like nonstop and your professional journalistic brain kicks in and you talk about the queen, the story and the monarchy and what she's meant and every now and again, keir and i are halting

and thinking, wow, she's gone. i feel a crack in my voice and a teary eye and it's something -- it's hard to explain. is it the passing of time? is it a memory of my own parents dying? is it -- for all of us a unified feeling of grief and something passing and changing. is it a sense of uncertainty about what comes next? i have this feeling where we're going into a new era and somehow by virtue of who she was, she held people together in a world full of divisions. there's a lot going on in the world at the moment that isn't particularly nice. not just in terms of wars, in terms of social media and the way people talk to each other and there was something about her being able to rise above the disquiet of the moment that gave us a sense of reassurance

almost. there was someone with a link to the past, to my parents' past and my grandparents' past who acted in a different way and in a way that was admirable and calming, and i guess that's what is making keir and i feel, mobile. i wouldn't want to speak for him, but there is something about the passing of time and what she represents in that moment. i met her once at a garden party in washington, and again, was there a wonderfully funny story and i hope people are remembering her sense of humor, and i am so glad you're playing those funny clips because one thing that's perhaps lost in america. we talk about her duty and her diligence and her not complaining nature and that's admirable, but she had this wonderful twinkly sense of humor. i was at this garden party in washington for her birthday, and she was there and an american

woman kind of grand in washington circles made sure she got to the front of the line so she got to the line and she curtsied for the queen and she said your majesty i am so happy to meet you. she said oh, really? why? >> she had this sense of yeah, i'm the queen. whatever. it's all of that, but it's really this sense of -- it's hard when you've known people who you've loved very much. i'm thinking of mika and her own mother this summer and it's triggering some of that this summer and it's a family losing somebody and we feel we're losing part of the family. >> that is what she wanted and what she understood that the royal family needed to be an example, but also to others, but also a part of others' lives in

a deeply personal way. you know, mike, there's no way we americans can understand this. the passing of a head of state for 70 years. i do remember growing up my mother saying that she grew up and fdr was the only president she knew and when fdr died after being president for only 12 years it was like the king had died. she said we were scared. we just couldn't imagine a world without this man who had taken us through the great depression and had taken us through world war ii, and she said we were scared. imagine, 70 years. 70 years on the throne. this is -- this is something that's hard for us to conceive. >> you know, joe, my parents had the same reaction to the death of fdr, the only president that they really knew in functioning form during their younger lives, the depression and world war ii and they had the exact same

reaction as your mother and katty, we are privileged, i think, to have you here today because you have lived on both sides of the pond. you have covered both sides of politics in great britain and here in america and it struck me, obviously, as an american that the queen's death and i had not reflected on this ever before, but for 70 years she never dropped her duty because she could not drop her duty. she ended up being term limited by god. we are used to people that come into elections and come into politics, fade, lose or disappear, time takes care of that, but not this unique woman and not this unique role that she had in the world and i'm wondering, as you think about it, if you do think about it, the contrasts between the clamor and the division of our

politics, especially recently, compared to the consistency and the honor that this woman brought to her role again every single day, over 25,000 days that she reigned over the commonwealth. over 25,000 days and she did it consistently without ever embarrassing herself, the crown or her role in history. >> yeah. i was -- i was saying to my husband last night, god i would have made a terrible diplomat let alone a royal and i go to one official function a week and i say oh, god that was boring. i'm never doing that again. why did i have to go? she did official functions all day long, seven days a week, 365 days a year for 70 years and she never complained. she never grumbled. can you imagine having the

discipline and the -- >> no! >> and the energy and the self-control to do that every day and she did it because she had, as you're suggesting, mike, this profound belief in the role. i think she did it because she's a very disciplined person. she had a lot of self-control, but she also did it because she really believed that if she didn't the british monarchy would be in peril, and she'd come out of a time when the british monarchy had been in peril and when her uncle abdicated it was a crisis moment for the monarchy. she understood at a profound level she was the ideal person for the role at the moment and she understood that if she did not behave the way she did the monarchy would not be strong and healthy. it was this remarkable -- and i don't think she was even particularly cerebral about it.

she just got up every day and she did the job without complaining. >> i was going to say, willie, we talk about her extraordinary discipline, her extraordinary sense of duty and the responsibility she felt to the people of britain and the commonwealth and to god, and her entire life looking back seems to be a reaction to that shock that caddy was talking about where her husband behaved recklessly while he was king, and then threw away the crown, brought shame on the family because of his communications with hitler, and you just sense that everything -- how did she do that for 70 years? it was all sort of an extreme reaction to the extreme

recklessness of her uncle. >> yeah. and at 25 years old. think about that. 25 years old getting that phone call in 1952 on safari in kenya, you are the queen of england and all that must have the rushed over her. on that day and for 70 years since, it is so nice to sit and listen to katty, keir and others talk about it because part of what we're hearing and feeling is the loss of permanence that every day for 70 years britons woke up to the queen. she was there, and this morning for the first time she's not. that constancy is gone. that link through the generations katty was talking about, parents and grandparents and old friends lost. i think everyone is feeling that today. let's go live to london. nbc news foreign correspondent molly hunter is there. it's good to see you. you have more on the legacy of queen elizabeth this morning. >> hey, willie, good morning and good morning to all of you.

i just want to echo, it is so nice to hear katty and keir talk about this because as an american living here it is very, very different. and everyone, whether you supported the monarchy and whether you thought the royal family was great or not, everyone is feeling this grief if you're a briton and it is fascinating program people felt like she belonged to everyone and everyone says she was the grandmother of the nation and we have more of her legacy and we have more on public service and duty. queen elizabeth ii taking on the challenge of her life at just 25 years old when she was crowned after the death of her father king george in 1953. elizabeth was not originally raised to be queen, but she always had a close relationship with the british people speaking to them during the london blitz as princess. >> god will care for in peace. >> after taking the throne for

70 years, she balanced the public duties of her office becoming the most widely traveled monarch in history with the private roles of mother, grandmother and great-grandmother speaking directly to her subjects in a christmas address every year. >> but now at least for a few minutes i welcome you to the peace of my own home. >> during her reign, 15 prime ministers served in office and she met 15 u.s. presidents. through turbulent periods of war and economic crisis, she stayed out of the political fray, but she embraced her role as head of state meeting weekly with prime ministers and seeking to project stability on her visits to commonwealth states after the decline of the british empire and gestures of peace becoming the first british monarch in 100 years to visit the republic of ireland after years of violence. more recently she navigated the turbulent waters of the brexit vote to leave the european union and later the covid-19 pandemic, but her public leadership was at times overshadowed by the royal

family's only personal upheavals. the tragic death of princess diana in 1997 rocked the family and the world. many criticizing the queen for waiting days to publicly address diana's death. >> i, for one, believe there are lessons to be drawn from her life and the extremely moving reaction to her death. more family strive, her son prince andrew facing accusations of sexual misconduct which he denies and disputes between prince harry and the family though she stayed close to all of her grandchildren and perhaps the hardest loss to bear came just last year with the death of her husband of over seven decades, the black-clad queen seen grieving prince philip alone. this year the family honored her, gathering to celebrate the queen's platinum jubilee marking 70 years on the throne, three future queens flanking the monarch, the queen carried on until the very end meeting with incoming conservative prime

minister liz truss just two days before her death. >> she carried on until the very end which is just so very her, willie. i just want to bridge you up-to-date and give you a look at what's expecting in london. we expect camilla an we expect them to meet with liz truss. we are hearing politicians kind of take the microphone and give their own tribute to the queen and later today we will hear king charles iii we believe at 6:00 p.m. give his televised address. we understand it's pre-recorded and his televised address to the nation as monarch. willie? >> we are watching on the other side of the screen, 96 shots go up from canons to honor her extraordinary life. thank you. joining us now the british ambassador to the united states karen pierce.

it's good to have you back on the show. i guess i'd like to start by asking about the queen's legacy in terms of how it impacted the special relationship. >> the queen was a great admirer and friend of america. she often spoke about the common heritage, a kinship, but she'd always go on to speak about the values that we both share, about freedom, and about democracy and about the way we have chosen. the queen never wanted lectures to the country, but she did want to draw attention about freedom-loving and common-law heritage that both britain and america had chosen, and she would often use the word chosen. she met 13 of the last u.s. presidents. she met everyone except lyndon johnson. she paid visits to the u.s. she's been here six times. she was a great admirer of the kentucky racing stables, but she

also saw britain as a stalwart friend and ally to the united states. she visited mount vernon. she visited a large number of places in the u.s. and we have been overwhelmed by incredibly kind messages right across america on her death. >> ambassador, it's katty here. i was very lucky to be at the kentucky derby when she was there and it was wonderful watching the crowd and the queen enjoying races. i was watching american presidents to make the journey across the pond any meet the queen and there they go wielding all of the hard power with what comes to be president of the united states, they have the most money in the world and the richest country in the world and yet they turn up at buckingham palace and my only best description is they have a need. it was so fascinating to watch president after president meet this increasingly frail,

diminutive woman, and sort of gushing over her. how have you watched it watching presidents go to meet the queen and being sort of completely won over by her? >>. >> i have the same reaction as you, katty, and what you and your colleagues were saying about your memories of her and the british diplomats around the world and especially those of us lucky enough to meet her. the point about the queen is that she embodied both the human and the personal and the epic and heroic and when you meet her it's like you're seeing the living representation of britain and the uk and the commonwealth, and i think world leaders who do meet her and not just u.s. presidents, of course, you are very conscious that she had been on the throne for 70 years or whatever it was at that particular point. she was there at the founding of the united nations.

she was there throughout all of the wars that were fought in the decades. she had embodied the british national spirit and in bad and for me, personally, when you see her in person, all of this comes flooding into your consciousness. so as i say, it is both human and epic at the same time and that's very unusual. >> ambassador karen pierce, thank you for joining us this morning. >> and still ahead on "morning joe." we are following the justice department's appeal of the decision to grant a special master in the investigation into donald trump's handling of classified documents. plus former trump adviser steve bannon handcuffed and indicted in new york city as he turned himself in on money laundering and conspiracy charges. >> wait a second. those are three shirts. >> you see a third? >> i see a third. >> the inside and the outside

and -- if you took the over, you win. >> no, there's three. i promise you. >> there you go. one and then there's another collar inside and then you've got the t-shirt and absolutely no contrast between that and the jacket. >> you all might find that interesting, what also is interesting is this indictment might also have former president trump worried about a similar one. >> and a little later -- u.s. tennis phenom, trances tiafoe who takes the court tonight and we'll tell you about his family's incredible story which is even more remarkable as his play on the court. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ng joe." we'll be right back. it's the all-new subway series menu. twelve irresistible new subs. the most epic sandwich roster ever created. ♪♪

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the justice department has decided to appeal part of of a federal judge's ruling to appoint a special master to review the documents the fbi removed from former president donald trump's florida home and club. prosecutors say they have serious concerns about handing government secrets over to a third party. the department argues the records seized from mar-a-lago last month are not the former president's personal records, and he has no right to possess them. the doj asked judge aileen cannon to put on hold her order blocking the department from using the seized records and its criminal investigation while it contests her ruling to a federal appeals court. law enforcement officials said in a filing yesterday they would suffer irreparable harm if judge cannon's order remained in place. judge cannon directed trump's lawyers to respond to the

government by monday. >> let's bring in nbc news justice correspondent ken delaney. it's getting appealed and going to the 11th circuit and a pretty conservative circuit at the same time. i'm sure they don't want to be reversed by the supreme court on something this huge and when you have everybody from andy mccarthy or "the new york post," a tough legal mind who has usually supported donald trump to former attorney general barr, to obviously neal katyal saying that this was just absolutely an egregious decision you wonder if even a conservative circuit like the 11th circuit won't overturn this. what are you hearing? >> you're absolutely right, joe, and that's yet justice department focused on the most egregious, from their point of view, the least supportable part of what the judge did here.

what they're basically saying is judge, we can live with the special master looking at donald trump's tax and health records that we took from his office, but the special master has no right to review these hundred classified documents that we've already segregated and put in a special place because donald trump had no right to them. they are not his personal records. they are government records. there's no possible claim of attorney-client privilege and even though the judge held out some theoretical possibility that some of them could be covered by executive privilege, the justice department says even if that were true the nixon supreme court, watergate case says that a criminal investigation holds sway here and in this request for the judge to stay a part of her order and there is an affidavit from the head of the fbi's counterintelligence division where he says, basically the intelligence community has put a stop on their damage assessment here because of your order because what we're doing with the criminal investigation is

inextricably linked to the damage assessment. for example, he said, there are a bunch of empty files marked classified that we found at mar-a-lago. you can't just tell us that you can do a damage assessment, but you can't look at these documents for the purpose of the criminal investigation and what should observers say that the doj is giving the judge a graceful way out. it would have been a motion to reconsider for the judge. they didn't go that route. we're appealing, judge, but we're giving you one last chance to put a stay on this egregious part of your order that has no support in law. >> ken, the filing of law enforcement saying they would suffer irreparable harm if the order remained in place. they do not want a third party seeing these documents again. when trump's team makes a move they end up revealing more about the severity of this case.

>> that's right, mika, because as the national archives said in a letter weeks ago, some of these documents contain some of the most highly classified markings that the government has. special access programs which are available to only a small number of people created by cabinet secretaries and there are compartments and people need to be read in and they had to have special clearance before they could even look at them. so we're talking about super sensitive stuff and what the government is saying and the irreparable harm part is we need to figure out right now what sources and methods have been exposed and not three months when the appeals process goes through and they're saying the united states of america, not just prosecutors, the longer we have to wait to investigate what the damage was. >> any way they turn, anything they plead, anything that's revealed, they're, like, okay.

>> they're going to hurt themselves and they're going to hurt themselves for the reason that we keep repeating every day, and after he's been indicted and charged people are going to look back and say, of course, he was indicted and charged with this. right now people are acting shocked, stunned and deeply saddened and the reason why everywhere they turn is bad news is because nobody has justification for what he's done. he's not justified it and his hacks out in the media haven't justified it. his hacks both in and out of prison haven't justified it. there's no justifying of this. i have to say also, chief justice roberts and i would think one or two other people on the high court, willie, are going to be really uncomfortable with a district court judge in the judiciary, in the judicial branch telling the executive branch, the department of

justice -- you know what? we understand the constitution gives you the power to enforce the laws and i'm not going to let you do that. >> we're going to rifle through these again and we'll delay the investigation because a fort stewart federal judge or fort pierce federal judge in florida, i'm going to just stop an investigation by the department of justice against a former president of the united states regarding perhaps the greatest security breach that any high-level official in the executive branch has ever been. i don't see the roberts' court going, yeah, we're cool with that. >> that's why this argument in the trump team wants to let this play out and get to the supreme court which she thinks is favorable to him doesn't make a lot of sense on the merits. >> they're against him in the stop to steal -- 63 federal judges, i understand they have their abortion ruling and i understand on these ideological

issues and how they respond. i do not believe they're going to respond in the way that surprises us when you're talking about, first of all, separation of powers issues and secondly law enforcement issues where they're going to start letting district court judges across america stop doj investigations? that's insane. >> and every time a new motion comes out and a new filing from the trump team as mika said we learn more about it and it gives the justice department another chance to say these documents don't belong to you. you had no right to take them and put them at the pool shed in mar-a-lago. >> ken, stay with us. we want to talk about another big legal story playing out right now. prosecutors accuse steve bannon of felony fraud in new york, and that's just one of the charges against him. we'll run through the latest next on "morning joe." orning jo"

ken, let me get you on another story. steve bannon pled not guilty in a new york court on money landering, scheming to defraud and conspiracy involved with the organization we build the wall, a group as a fund-raising effort to complete the wall of the southern border as president trump promised back then. it is alleged bannon defrauded donors and funneled $100,000 to the organization's president and then profited himself. bannon faces five to 15 years for the most serious charge? wow. >> in 2020 bannon was charged federally for his activities with we build the wall and was pardoned by then president trump before the case went to trial. bannon was convicted in july of two counts of contempt of congress after refusing to, ply

with the subpoena from the committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol. it was a striking image yesterday it see steve bannon placed in handcuffs in court. where does this case go from here? is there a chance he serves time in jail? >> i think so, willie. this is a very strong case. it was a very strong federal case and now it's a very strong state case. it's a garden variety fraud the way they've alleged it here and these people made representations and raised $25 million and they diverted some of it for personal use and what's interesting to me about this case is you remember donald trump pardoned paul manafort and the state of new york tried to charge him with crimes and that blew up over the double jeopardy. that can't apply here because bannon was never convicted in the federal case. it never went to trial. so the state is free to bring really the identical case, different charges under state law and go forward with it, and it's really hard to see what

steve bannon's defense is here. we'll have to wait and see. as prosecutors have looked -- who have looked at this and said this is an open and shut garden variety case and the kind they prosecute every day. >> nbc news correspondent ken delanian, thank you very much. the supreme court puts abortion on the ballot. we'll talk to congresswoman alyssa slotkin and the former chief of staff adrienne elrod how this can change the shape of every race in that state that and more when "morning joe" returns. d more when "morning jo returns. let's hear from simone. chuck, that's a club i want to join! i literally just said that. i like her better than you the new subway series. what's your pick?

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the michigan supreme court has ruled that a proposed state constitutional amendment that would protect abortion rights should be placed on november's

ballot. the ruling yesterday, overrides last week's party line vote by the board of state canvassers who blocked the certification of the proposed amendment. over 750,000 michigan residents signed the proposal. more than any signed proposal in the state's history. michigan joins several other states where voters will have a say this fall into what extent abortion is illegal post roe v. wade with votes also scheduled in california, montana, vermont and kentucky. joining us now democratic congresswoman alyssa slotkin of michigan and former chief of staff to the dccc adrienne elrod and she was with hillary clinton, and alyssa, how does your race feel a day after this decisions. >> all of us in michigan up and down the ticket know this is an issue that's completely

galvanized people and it's galvanized voters who might be row-choice, but it's also really galvanized voters who consider themselves pro-life. they just want some exception, some flexibility. so for us in michigan, we -- it is something that we believed in and we got signatures and when the supreme court came out yesterday for a lot of us down ballot it was a very important moment. >> congresswoman, this has become in many races the defining issue ahead of this november's midterms. what are republicans in office in michigan saying about this issue and we've had many on the show about a gubernatorial candidate there, to say this would be an opportunity for underaged girls to have a baby. >> i come from a district that's overwhelmingly pro-life and it is a republican-leaning district, and it has been amazing how many republican women have come up to me saying i could never personally had an

abortion and i wouldn't tell another woman how to live her life. what we're seeing is a huge division between those women and the elected republican leaders in the state and the candidates in the state. the republicans are the dog that caught the car on this issue. they literally have been preaching about this and talking about it in black and white terms and as soon as it happened they realized that politics doesn't make great policy and that particularly women understand there's a million reasons when you desperately want a child you may not be able to carry it to term and a 1931 ban does not speak to the realities that women go through. >> and i'm sure what you're hearing is what i'm hearing. a come from a pro-life area. most people that i grew up with consider themselves pro-life and so many of them have checked out on the radicalism. when you have someone running for governor saying a 14-year-old girl being raped is a perfect example of why she needs to carry the rapist's baby and have the state compel her to have a forced birth.

why 10-year-old girls are fleeing the state of michigan. this happened a couple of weeks ago we had a representative from south carolina practically in tears saying i know i voted for this, a doctor told me about a young woman who might die because of what we did here. this is crazy, people. you need to catch your breath and back up. again, these are pro-life people that are saying enough, and yesterday i saw a clip -- i think the recount posted, the south carolina state senate, they're debating a proposal that would ban nearly all abortions in the state. they rejected that, but opposition came from every democrat, female republicans and some male republicans and they kept it from overcoming a filibuster. i want you, though, to listen to state senator katrina shealy. she is a pro-life republican from south carolina and listen to what she said about the lack

of an exception for rape and incest. the speech is going viral. here's part of what she said. >> why am i talking about this, isn't she pro-life? yes, i'm pro-life. i'm also pro-life has with her children who are already born, i care about the children who are forced into adulthood that was made up by legislature full of men so they could make -- take a victory lap and feel good about it. you want children raising children who will most likely suffer domestic violence and live in poverty. but you don't care because you've done your job. and you will forget about them once they are born. you will fight my legislation on foster homes and adoption, not support regulations to stop sex traveling and pornography. will you not support my legislation for free meals for all children in schools. you're not going to help me on

that. if you want to believe that god is wanting you to push a bill through with no exceptions that kills mothers and ruins the lives of children, let's mothers bring home babies to bury them i then i think your miscommunicating with god or maybe not communicating with him at all. >> by the way, slow clap for her. and let me just say, as a southern baptist, i grew up reading the bible, make a backsliding baptist, but jesus never once talked about abortion. and it was happening back in ancient times. it was happening during his time. never once mentioned it. for people perverting the gospel of jesus christ down to one issue, it is heresy. if you don't believe me, if it makes you angry, why don't you do something you haven't done in a long time. open the bible, open the new

testament, read the red letters. you won't see it there. and yet there are people who are using jesus as a shield to make 10-year-old raped girls go through a living and breathing hell here on earth. they've also conveniently overlooked the parts of the new testament when jesus talks about taking care of the needy. taking care of those who are helpless, who live a hopeless life. because they believe these state legislators believe that life begins at fertilization and ends at child birth. and katty, what a powerful message yesterday from a southern pro-life conservative republican who i guarantee you speaks for so many southern pro-life conservative republican

women. >> she echoes the feeling that the supreme court's ruling didn't take into account the complexities that would happen after it made that ruling and the tragic circumstances of women around the country, whether it is a 10-year-old girl in ohio or a woman who has a pregnancy and the fetus is badly disformed and she needed to have a distraction. the ruling didn't allow for the human complexity and that is what is coming back to bite republicans when we hit midterms. that is not the first lawmaker stand up and say this is too brutal. it is having unintended consequences. she's speaking from a religious point of view but there are local lawmakers in the south that makes them feel, even if they are pro-life, this ruling and the consequences, the

unintended consequences have made them feel deeply uncomfortable. >> yeah. you're exactly right. she's not the first and she certainly won't be the last. i think we're going to hear this from more and more conservative republicans between now and the mid terps and probably after that because this is a lot that is on the books. the supreme court votes for it. it is not going away any time soon. but this is something that republicans have been so focused on for 20, 30 years and to an extent since roe was enacted into law in 1973. and it is coming back to bite them because the point you just made, they didn't think through all of the repercussions. the life of the mother, all of the circumstances that women have to go through when they are taking care of their own reproductive health. and they did not see this through. and what we're seeing is how this is playing out in certain demographics. latino men, a demographic that democrats have struggled with over the last several presidential election cycles,

we've lost more and more latino men, they say in certain areas they will only support a pro-choice candidate. i think some people and republicans thought oh, latino men tend to lean more catholic and they're conservative and that is not the case and you're seeing this among key demographics across the board in the electorate. younger voters are becoming more registered. and you're seeing among the latino men and black men. key demographics that democrats need to win in not just 2022 but 2024. >> elissa slotkin of michigan thank you for being on with us this morning. good to have you, adrienne elrod. great to see you. coming up -- that was the late queen elizabeth back in 2018 referencing the past two american presidents over the

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♪♪ a 96-gun salute in london. a short while ago. one for each year of queen elizabeth ii's life. britain is mourning the loss