♪♪ a 96-gun salute in london. a short while ago. one for each year of queen elizabeth ii's life. britain is mourning the loss of

their queen elizabeth who died yesterday in balmoral castle in scotland. just moments ago, king charles iii and queen consort camilla returned to london. now making his way to buckingham palace. he's scheduled to meet with british prime minister liz truss before addressing the nation this evening. welcome back to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, and 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. and 2:00 p.m. in london. the bbc katty kay is still with us for the hour. we continue to remember the life and legacy of queen elizabeth ii. the global outpouring perhaps best articulated by french president emmanuel macron who writes in part, she gave her all to her kingdom. rarely have subjects identified themselves so much with their sovereign and enthralled by they are every word and outfits and gestures, representing both the

legacy of the past and confidence in the future. she was one with her nation. she embodied a people, a territory, and a shared will and stability above the fluctuations and upheaval of politics, she represents a sense of eternity. she who stood with the giants of the 20th century on the path of history has now left to join them. >> and the queen's death now sets off a meticulously planned national memorial which reportedly was set in motion with four coded words yesterday, london bridge is down. as part of the plans, england's new king charles iii will deliver a televised address to the united kingdom tonight. tomorrow after taking an oath swearing to protect the church of scotland, the asession is expected to be announced from a balcony at st. james palace.

a small funeral reception will be aend itted by top government officials and that group will include liz truss, who was sworn in just this week. the queen's body expected to stay there until tuesday before it is moved again to westminster palace where members of the public will be able to pay their respects. simultaneously the new king will tour the u.k. and then return to london for queen elizabeth's funeral. following that funeral, the queen will be buried in st. george's chapel at windsor castle. >> and here in the united states, the queen's death is also resonating with millions of americans. many of whom have never known another british monarch. and nbc's chief white house correspondent kristen welker has that part of the story. kristen. >> reporter: good morning. the queen's death is being felt across the u.s. here in washington president

biden saying she helped make our relationship with presidents and an american audience who adored her. she belonged to britain. but america is mourning too. queen elizabeth's remarkable reign spanned nearly one-third the life of this nation. >> this just seemed like such a significant moment. the passing of this woman who has been the stalwart figure in the back of our minds for the past 70 years. >> president biden saying she was more than a monarch. she defined an era and paying his respected at the british embassy in washington. the tributes also pouring in from president's past including donald trump saying what a grand and beautiful lady she was. there was nobody like her. former president obama, we were struck by remember apss born out

of relationships forged over the years, meeting every u.s. president except lind ep johnson dating back to harry truman who she represented representing her father the king. only to return to the white house as a queen in 1957. >> i also want to say how much i appreciate the warmth and friendliness of your reception. >> reporter: visits punctuated by pomp and pageantry and she appeared to enjoy america's past times, watching a baseball game with the president bush and turning the kentucky derby into a royal affair during the second bush presidency. at the center of powerful moments, that famous dance with president ford at the white house, becoming the first british monarch to address congress. sharing her love of horses with president reagan and showing her support. while the last trip to the u.s.

was in 2007, every president since has visited the palace. two countries now bonded in grief for a monarch, a matriarch, her majesty. now president biden has met the queen twice. once as a senator and once last year as president when he said her grace reminded him of his mother. now mika and joe, we do expect the president will attend her funeral. >> nbc's kristen welker, thank you. joining us now, author and presidential historian michael beschloss and former secretary of state for foreign affairs of the united kingdom, david millieband and president of the international rescue committee and it is good to have you with us. >> it's a side note. all morning we've been saying every u.s. president except lyndon johnson and i can't help but think of a story that roy

jenkins told of foreign secretary rab butler coming to washington and lbj holding dollars over his head thinking he was humiliated him and roy jenkins said he spent the rest of his life retelling the story chortling, laughing and mocking lbj. not a lot of love lost between britain and lbj. but for the other presidents, an extraordinary legacy starting with truman. and we lost his audio. all right. here is a good lead up. david, a special relationship, talk about the queen. >> she did the impossible. she united a nation that has been fractious and divided and argumentative. across the u.k., she managed to ensure that she legitimatized

political division by symbolizing national unity. and fact that you have tributes from the around the world, some of the words you've been using this morning, grace, stoicism and who doesn't just spoke about something important globally and i have the very great privilege when she went abroad, the foreign secretary goes with her and gets to go and brief her about foreign affairs. most of the time, she knew more than we did because she had been there for so long, she met all of the people and the parents of the generation of leaders. >> and we have michael now. >> i am curious, though, tell us about her relationship, from a very conservative, with a small "c" background, very conservative background, i remember from the line from the queen where tony blair's wife said you labor prime minister's fall in love.

but i also remember reading about her special relationship and love for harold wilson. talk about that. >> that is a labor prime minister in the 1960s. i think you have to look at her formative years. the 1930s as she grew up. she learned about the rise of fascism and she learned how in 1940 she grave that extraordinary broadcast as a tiny young girl, 14 years old. she speak to the children of britain at the time. she at the time there was a very controversial u.s. ambassador to the u.k., john kennedy's father who caused controversy in the way he saw things in the 1930s. and then in the 1940s and '50s, she became queen by accident because it was her uncle's line and then after the 1930s and the entangledment with simpson, the line moved over to her. so she learned about change and challenge and from a very early

age and that is it is a institution by continuity, but also having to go with change. >> david, i want to ask you a basic question. i was talking to my children about the queen last night and they have great admiration for her and we're talking about her extraordinary life. but they were trying to sort out as american kids what does she do. why is she so significant. if she doesn't make the laws and set the policy, we think of our own president here. so you could articulate for the audience why she is such a significant figure, not just in the u.k., but around the world. >> it is a great point. the very limit of her powers is what gave her the power to unite the nation. she never had to put up with taxes or inflation, she never had to make the toughest calls. but she always there to advise. and one of the things about her is that she did her homework. every night she did the famous red box, work through her papers. she took her responsibilities very seriously. and her greatest responsibility was not to dabble in politics so

they didn't take sides between left and right. she allowed the democratic process to go forward and in that sense she really defined what a constitutional monarchy should be for the modern age. some people say she reinvented the idea of a monarchy. she defined and envented what a constitutional monarch could be. >> michael beschloss, i believe we have you back. talk about queen elizabeth's relationship with the united states and with every president going back to harry truman. >> happy to do it. morning, mika and joe. and sorry again to lose my sound. i loved your speech, your story about rab butler and lbj so much, i've been speechless for the last few minutes. but i've now recovered. she had these amazing relationships with these presidents. she came here as a princess, 1951, talked to harry truman as you have written, joe, one of the commanding presidents in american history.

and she held her own. she was in her mid-20s. and the amazing thing, and this is someone who is reflected in the series "the crown" which is not always accurate but was in this case, she didn't have an elaborate education. she was not prepared for this job. she wasn't in the line of succession until her uncle abdicated in 1936. and then she becomes queen decades earlier than expected at this extremely young age. and she is dealing with her prime minister, she's dealing with winston churchill and harry truman and dwight eisenhower. and i look at all of the documents from the american size since a lot of the british ones and particularly her own diaries and private papers will not be opened for a very long time. and all of these very tough politics who are president of the united states say, i learned so much from her. she told me about what eleanor roosevelt told her during world

war ii and remembered england's economic troubles after the war. so this was someone who dealt with them not only as an equal, but in some cases as a superior. could i also -- >> just one -- just one moment. we're looking at images now of king charles iii returning to buckingham palace. i have to ask david, i'm sorry, just how strange, even as americans, he's prince charles. he's forever the prince in waiting. we're now looking -- >> look at the king. >> -- at the king. >> it is 73 job training of a quite remarkable kind. and she obviously always wanted there to be not np iota, not a moment of indecision after her passing. now that he's greeting people speaks to the training that he's had. >> i want to bring in katty kay to this conversation.

and david was talking about how queen elizabeth handled change from such an early age and i wonder what this change feels like to you, katty? king charles, what is it like to envision this future given the 70-year legacy of queen elizabeth? >> i'm looking at these pictures and in a bit like you, i'm sort of kind of gobsmacked. has he changed? has he emerged from that car, this is the first time we've seen him as king. and is there a different aura about him. is there something -- something we haven't seen before and actually no, he just looks like charles. but there he is going out and greeting the crowds. this is his very first encounter with the british public as king. this is a big moment for him. and it is -- and charles, the challenge for charles now because he comes to the throne at the age of 76, he brings with

him of course a lifetime of well-known opinions and statements that he's made in public and she had none of that. she came to the throne as a young woman who was about a blank straight. she hadn't express the opinion about controversial issues which he has and he will now have to wrestle with how much of the causes he holds dear and has spoken about openly and publicly and championed his whole life, what happens now to those statements and those causes and how does he balance being king. and he said very publicly rather undiplomatically in the past, i'm not stupid. i know it is different. and it will be. and this is the first ever -- the first glimpse we get of him in this different role. and how will he carry himself and how will he handle all of those causes. just one thing. david millband is a constant diplomat and i'm chuckling at

his life about the entanglement with mrs. simpson and glossing over a rather rift in the british monarchy. >> keir simmons is just a step away from perfect wr we're watching king charles iii shake hands with the crowd gathered outside of buckingham palace. what is it like there. >> as the king's car arrived and he stepped out, people began to run to be close to him, to see him. those folks you see shakes his hands and exchanges words, there are people who have been waiting all morning in order to see him like this. this is an opportunity for him to really set the tone for his kingship if you like. and what he's trying to do here is to ensure that he is seen as a king of the people. that there have been times when prince charles has been seen a little aloof. maybe that is not fair. but that is the perception. and he's very determined to not

have that be the case now. and you know, i think back, guys, to princess diana who shifted their relationship with the people. who frankly metaphorically speaking stomped her foot and said you have engage, you have to connect. and to watch now her former husband walking there, shaking hands, that is another example of how the royal family has changed. and the demands of princess die sanaa, but also at the hands of -- i think they're singing god save our gracious king. which is just another one of those moments, isn't it, where you just think wow, we have to change the name, we have to change the words and the national anthem. i was just saying that that change, while at that moment with diana, the queen struggled to shift.

that change was very much guided under the queen. and she very much understood how to gently change while at the same time maintaining tradition. that is what prince charles is going to need to do. you could see there, there is going to be an awful lot of good will for him. and this is a constitutional monarchy. but guys, it is still politics. he knows that he needs to take advantage of this early time to set out who he is. as king. to hopefully he will be hoping to put the controversies as prince behind him and he cannot afford to be seen, to be distant. and i suspect when he makes his address later today, you'll see that same message again. another aspect, too, will be the slimmed down monarchy you've been talking about. it is just him and camilla, i can't see camilla in these

pictures. one notable point, there is going to be so many things that we're going to be picking out. another notable point when you watch charles and camilla now, she's walking behind him. he's the sovereign. he's the monarch. a lot of things. another example, i mentioned it earlier, and that while this is happening, the public, it is very much a publicity aspect if you like to his reign. while this is happening, the constitutional gears are turning. in courts across the morning, judges in courts act under the king. they reference the king this morning when they started work. there are going to be so many examples of the way you know, the british culture is going to shift a little bit. >> there is that. we're laughing at the kiss. the kiss that will -- i just said prince charles. king charles ii.

given no choice but to go ahead. >> she planted one on him. >> to accept a kiss from the subject. so, keir, i'm just wondering, you've spent your entire life looking at charles as a prince. i'm just curious as a british citizen, yu your thoughts on king charles iii personally and again it must be strange hearing god save the king. >> yeah. and i was listening to katty kind of try to put in words how we are feeling at this moment. obviously we know how we're feeling in relation to the queen. about king charles. and you wonder, don't you, whether the very gears of the constitution, the very fact of the constitutional monarchy, assuming the role, will shift people's perceptions and perhaps will shift a little bit how king

charles behaves maybe, or maybe it will just be something that you can't describe, that kind of ephemeral quintessential nature of monarchy. when you are on the throne, something is different. and we're going to have so see in the days ahead. there will be difficulties. there will be challenges for this king. not least of course how hard is it to step into the shoes of queen elizabeth. one of the greatest monarchs this country has ever known. but another point from history, which might be worth thinking about, after queen victoria, another extraordinary queen, we had edward. and the modern era is seen as an extension of the victoria era and that might be what we see now going forward. okay, perhaps a little less devotion, but it is fine.

king charles is fine kind of feeling. a lot is going to depend on how these people and millions of people around this country and actually around the world in the commonwealth who he is meeting with now, how their opinion shifts in the weeks and the months and the years ahead. >> prince charles has finished working that line of citizens and now observing some of the memorials that have been left at the gate after buckingham palace for his mother queen elizabeth ii. david, i'm curious what you think as you watch this. hasn't that been 70 years. we think about 1952. there is still pock marks on the building from the blitz. this is a long time coming. how are things different today than they were yesterday in the united kingdom? >> i think i could speak for myself but not for all britains, but think there is a sadness and also gratitude and pride because you've seen this transfer, not of power but of leadership. and the britain that you saw on the faces of those people there

was a very different britain from the britain of 70 years ago. but nonetheless, it has a sense of pulsing patriotism, but also commitment that i think is very important. as it happens, prince charles, now king charles is the patron of the international rescue committee in the u.k. so i saw him in the u.k. just two or three months ago. he's someone who cares. and what katty kay was referring to earlier was that could be that a problem for him as a monarch. i think it is the opposite. the fact that he cares is evident. he knows limits of what he could do and that is the secret of his success and you could see some of that in the reaction he's getting today. it reflects his mother and also reflects him. >> keir i'm watching these pictures and it occurred to me how much he's going to be scrutinized, every movement. i was trying to figure out does he look different or sound different. the way he interacts with the crowd. is she walking behind him or not walking behind him. everything he does, plaerly over

the next few days, until the british public gets used to him being king charles, everything will be watched and analyzed and how is he like her and not like her. and it is -- it is a moment he's been waiting for all his life. but it is also, and i'm thinking gosh at the same time this man is grieving his mother. his mother died yesterday and he's still having to go out there and smile at people and shake their hands. but it is this scrutiny under for us as we try to discern how he's going to be like her and how he's not going to be like her. how he's going to be his own monarch. >> yeah, you know, i think it is such a great point, just to point out in a moment like this even, you could see on his face, he appears bright and positive. it does look -- it does look as if camilla is walking behind him and at times not so much. who knows if they're trying to be more modern or stick with

tradition. these are the questions. but he looks like he's kind of best foot forward. and yet, of course, and katty, such opinion important point to remember that he's grieving. and i think we go back to that question, don't we, about what it is -- the question of duty. what duty and service really means and what we saw from his mother just this week when she appointed a new prime minister just days from her death. that determination to push through and just think about this, the story of william and harry walking behind diana's casket because the public wanted to see that. they wanted to see the royals out there on the streets. and then how they have described that moment in later years. and how painful it was. and that -- there is something in that, about what we're watching now and how they described and what we saw with the queen this week, that describes the nature of duty. it is very, very, very hard.

the expectation that you will walk out as king and squeeze hands and go and see the flowers and look the way king charles just looked, while it is less than 24 hours. we don't know actually exactly when she died. it is around 24 hours since his mother died. it is -- it isn't easy to give yourself to your country like that. that is what is expected. >> can't imagine it. it is fascinating and i know it is not always accurate. but you watch the crown, at the end of the first season, i said, you know, that looks like not the greatest job in the world. by the end of the last season, i was like, dear god, who would want -- who would want that life. okay. you live in a castle and -- but it is everybody looking at you every second of the day.

you can't smile, you can't betray for a second year true feeling. it is -- i'm just following up on what you said, keir, it is the opposite of what we think growing up, going what a wonderful deal. and then you listen to the boys talk about loosing their mother and what they had to do as young children playing this role when their hearts were breaking. and all of these people required to perform when they're going through deeply personal difficulty times. i wanted to ask, keir, and katty, just your impression of the new queen concert. camilla, obviously someone who didn't come to the international stage under the best of circumstances. and i was fascinated several

months ago when queen elizabeth announced that she would be queen consort upon her passing. almost as if she were lending her approval and also preparing the country for -- for what was going to come. what is camilla's standing right now with the british people? keir? >> well, king charles absolutely depends on her. he relies on her. the queen described prince philip as her strength and stay. that was absolutely going to be true too for king charles and the queen concert camilla. how the public will feel about her. i've been wondering for a long time when we come to this moment, will the -- will the unhappiness, the grief and anger frankly that surrounded those years of princess diana, will

they impact the way that camilla is perceived? they have worked very, very hard to try to shift that and to ensure that there isn't a negative feeling of course. but we wait to see. we're just really beginning here, joe. and again, just and before i let katty reflect herself on camilla. it is interesting, you're talking about the personal side of this. with a constitutional monarchy as opposed to a constitution and what you get is a flesh and blood constitution. and the value of that is can be and certainly was with the queen that you have this affection, you don't just have the legal, the law, the written word, you have this affection toward the sovereign which binds everything together and for the sack fwies that the people in the middle tv, it could be frankly

miserable. >> my understanding is that camilla standing in opinion polls and lord knows how you poll a family like this accurately, but that she has -- that her approval ratings have improved and people have been impressed by the way she handled the role. i was struck by something lord luce said earlier, how the queen did all of these duties and never let on that she was bored or tired or fed up or irritated and he pointed immediately to prince philip. so clearly camilla is going to be incredibly important in the success of king charles' reign. she will be a very critical figure and luckily they have a close, clearly this big love affair that they had between the two of them. the people who -- joe, you mentioned what a nightmare job it would be and i think all of us could relate to that. and that is one thing if you're born into it. imagine marrying into it. imagine being camilla or being being kate. and i think the reason people

look at the next generation of the royal family and think the monarchy is going to be in good hands is partly because of kate. kate, who came from a upper middle class family, met william at university, and chose even though she really knew what it was going to be like, she chose to marry into the family. and she, like camilla, is doing her very best to do the job in the way that is expected of her. and her approval ratings are also very high. and i think there is a respect for these women who marry into the family and an understanding of how important the spouse is, whether it is philip or camilla or kate, they are to the success of the monarch themselves. >> michael beschloss, i'm looking through prince charles, we've been talking so much about queen elizabeth and all of the presidents she met. prince charles has met ten himself. when he was a young boy, he met eisenhower when he was 11 years

old. what do we expect from the new king and his relationships with american presidents, with this american president, president biden and with the united states? >> well, you're absolutely right, willie. now king charles met diegt eisenhower in 1959 and guess where they were. they were at balmoral where the queen passed yesterday. so it is almost as if the entire wheel is turning. and he had the misfortune in 1970, the prince of wales came to the united states, president nixon had to him to the white house and told this to people and got into the papers at the time, that he was interested in kindling a romance between his elder daughter trisha to the prince of wales and king charles said i'm so glad to get out of there. he was trying to get me married off to his daughter.

so sometimes diplomacy has requirements we never expected before but one thing is whether he would be a great king or not. at this moment, i think everyone on this panel would agree, it is nor preordained that there will be a british monarchy in the future of the kind that we've seen in the past. there is every possibility that king charles could be in this job for 30 years. his grandmother lived to over the age of 100. his mother lived until the amg of 96. hope a long life for him. but whether the monarchy survives and has the kind of central role in the u.k. with the united states, with the world, it is all going to depend on the leadership of this man. and it is going to be tough. because can reminds me a little bit, joe was talking about lyndon johnson, i was read lady bird johnson's diary not long ago and a few months after the kennedy assassination in 1963, lbj had come into power and she was writing about the fact that

they had gone to some big social event where there was a crowd and she said, well it is okay, but the crowd all looked at linden and she were wishing for president kennedy. and for a while, that is the experience king charles will have. that those people on the rope line will love to shake hands with him but wish his mother were there. >> i'm always struck by harry truman quoting andrew johnson. who said he who followed lincoln, he rose no one to die. and we are at a moment again whereas michael said the survival of the monarchy depends on now king charles iii. i almost said prince charles again. and how he carries out his duties. >> presidential historian, michael beschloss, thank you very much and keir simmons, thank you as well. and up next, we're covering

two major legal stories playing out here in the u.s. department of justice appeals the florida judge's ruling on a special master. and steve bannon arrested and arraigned on charges of money laundering and conspiracy. we'll dig into both of those cases and later it is the final weekend of the 2022 u.s. open. but history has already been made with the incredible story of frances tia foe. we'll talk about the young american's remarkable path. we'll be right back. juicy rotisserie-style chicken. you should've been #1. this isn't about the sandwich, is it chuck? it's not. the new subway series. what's your pick?

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working side-by-side, we have the ability to solve the most insurmountable problems and to triumph over the greatest of adversities. 39 past the hour. the justice department has decided to appeal part of a federal judge's ruling to appoint a special master to review the documents the fbi removed from former president trump's florida home and beach

club. prosecutors say they have serious concerns about handle government secrets over to a third party. the department argues that the records seized from mar-a-lago last month are not the former president's personal records and he has no right to possess them. the doj also asked judge cannon to put on hold her order blocking the department from using the seized records and in its criminal investigation. while it contests her ruling to a federal appeals court. joining us now, former senior operations officer with the cia and nbc news national security and intelligence analyst mark polymeropoulos and joyce vance, also an msnbc legal analyst. good to you have both with us. joyce, the appeal or the appeal to part of the decision at least, what is the process on that? what is the timeline and do you think that the doj was right to

do that? >> so there are two simultaneous processes going on here. on the one hand we've got doj asking the district judge to stay part of her order. and that will proceed pretty quickly. she's ordered trump to respond by monday. the 11th circuit proceeding will take a little bit longer. that appeal will be docketed, the court will order a briefing schedule, it can either be expedited, and the court could make it move pretty quickly, but the traditional briefing schedule is something that runs on for a couple of months before the case is ripe for a decision. so the time line there is pretty much an unknown at this point, mika. >> and mark, the doj in this new filing, and the appeal said effectively, we need to under these documents do not belong to donald trump so there is no privilege here. and your new piece in the washington examiner it seems with every new filing from the trump team we do learn more about the volume any way of

documents, not necessarily of course their content. what concerns you most here and why do you say the more the learn, the less we know. >> well, i think that at the end of the day, it is clear that donald trump engaged in inappropriate behavior by taking documents home. top secret documents that he shouldn't have whatsoever and the issue of obstruction. but we still don't know the content of the documents and it becomes problematic because people engage in wild speculation. that these missing documents or what trump has had with him at mar-a-lago with the loss of u.s. intelligence agents overseas, that reportedly took place several years ago. so that to me is really speculative. but i think that we need to let of fbi do its job and in concert with the dni, the damage assessment and the mitigation assessment because we need to know what was in those documents and there my old line of work this has to do with potential lives of agents as well as

collection methods. >> so, steve bannon pleading not guilty yesterday in a new york court to charges of money laundering, scheming to defraud, and conspiracy. the charges relating to his involvement with the organization, quote, we build the wall. a group created and advertised as a fundraising effort to complete the wall at the southern border. it is alleged bannon defrauded donors and illegally funneled more than $100,000 to the organization's president and profited himself. bannon faces between 5 to 15 years for the most serious charge. in 2020, bannon was charged federally for his activities with we build the wall but was pardoned by then president trump before the case went to trial. so, joe, earlier we talked about your question in this case. and this is a really interesting question. if bannon is indicted for lying

about the build the wall fund, why would trump escape justice for stealing hundreds of millions from americans, lying about a stop the steal fund. anyone else would face justice. a federal grand jury is currently examining a fundraising operation created by donald trump after he lost the 2020 election. soliciting millions by falsely stating that the election results had been effected by widespread voter fraud. "the new york times" reports that the justice department is interested in the inner workings of save america pac, the main fundraising vehicle after the election. this is something that the house select committee investigating at tack on the capitol has also been looking into. in its second public hearing, we learned how the trump campaign raised millions, misleading supporters. >> the trump campaign knew those

claims of voter fraud were false. yet they continued to barrage small dollar donors with emails encouraging them to donate to the official election zeefs fund. the select committee discovered no such fund existed. >> there is not such a fund. >> is that another, i think we called it another marketing tactic. >> yes. >> and tell us about these funds as marketing tactics. >> just topic matter, where money could potentially go to be used. >> the claims that the election was stolen were so successful, president trump and his allies raised $250 million. nearly $100 million in the first week after the election. on november 9th, 2020, president trump created a separate entity call the save america pac. most the reason raised went to the newly created pac not to election litigation.

select committee discovered that the save america pac made millions of dollars of contributions to pro-trump organizations including $1 million to trump chief of staff mark meadows' charitable foundation and $1 million to a conservative organization which employed several former trump administration officials and 204,000 to the trump hotel collection and $5 million to event strategies inc., the company that ran the rally on the ellipse. >> so joyce, how difficult would it be for doj to prove the case against trump that it's -- that we see new york state trying to prove against steve bannon? >> it is a fascinating linkage, joe. and the real issue in these kind of fraud cases is, as you know, will be placing the former president in the mix on the decisions made by the new pac that was started right on the

heels of the election. was he involved in directing it? did he design the pitch? is he intimately involved and directing the operation of the fraud. he could also be a co-conspirator. if there was proof that he entered into an agreement that this pac would be used for fraudulent purposes. so there are a lot of options here. think something that is real interesting is the recording suggests that the grand jury that is investigating this fraud is a separate grand jury, a different grand jury from the grand jury that is taking a look at the insurrection proper. and that does suggest that there is some efforts to look at whether anyone is criminally culpable for the fraud here as opposed to using this as some of the evidence that would push forward the investigation into the insurrection. so a lot of interesting information to come here as well. >> yeah, marc, let me ask you, circling back to the special master, how concerned are you that -- that the handling of

this material by a special master, the delay actually could cause concerns for you over america's national security. >> sure. well this is not like fine wine. it doesn't get better over time. i think that there is a period in which you know the u.s. intelligence community and with the doj and the fbi do have to take some actions in terms of mitigation. but that means the investigation has to move forward. so delaying this by -- and i've heard even recently by several weeks or months, i think it is a problem. one of the things that i look at, our allies are watching us right now. and they understand that the current biden administration, i'm sure they've tightened up the document handling procedures and there is a lot of communication on this but it matters because there is a possibility that president trump might become president again. and so an investigation of what occurred is really important. we bilateral intelligence sharing agreements, i'm sure they're going fine now but what

happens in the future if president trump comes back into power. so this investigation really has domestic consequences for us in the united states. but the world is watching as well and the sooner we get through this, the better it is noing to be for everyone. >> former senior operations officer with the cia, marc polymeropoulos and joyce vance, thank you fog being on this morning. >> it is the best story in sports right now. frances tiafoe. taking the tennis world by storm. wait until you hear his unbelievable back story if you haven't heard it yet. we're coming back with mary carillo and mike lupica on "morning joe."

>> that'll do it, comes back in

the final set, and she will play for the u.s. open title. >> that is world number one, fiatek after dropping the first set rallying to a three-set victory at the u.s. open last night in queens. she advances to the women's final tomorrow. today francis tiafoe will take the court in prime time against carlos alcaraz in the first grand slam semifinal for both men. tiafoe is the first american man to make it this far at the u.s. open since 2006. he eliminated 22-time grand slam champion rafael nadal in four sets in the round of 15 before defeating number nine seed andre rublev in straight sets. joining us now mike lupica and nbc sports correspondent and analyst for nbc's tennis coverage mary carillo. good morning to you both. mary, you profiled francis

tiafoe five years ago, he was only 19 years old. boy were you on to something. here's a bit of that report. >> he may be america's next great tennis hope. >> look at that. >> 19-year-old francis tiafoe who in the past year has grown from a little known kid into one of the fastest rising stars in the men's game. >> oh, brilliant. >> you were this american teenager who already feels like you can live on the same court with anybody, with federer, with nadal, with murray. >> i believe that. i mean, i wake up every day, and you know, put my shoes on socks on just like i do, you know. why not? >> why not? perhaps because francis tiafoe is younger than anyone else in the world's top 100. by 15, he was one of the top junior players in the world, and at 17 he turned pro. now he competes on the sport's

biggest stages in grand slam events. >> why not? i love that. he's proving why not this week. so mary, if you can, for our viewers just tell a little bit of his extraordinary back story beginning with two parents who fled a civil war in sierra leone separately, met in the united states. >> yeah, it's a remarkable story, willie, and it's the quintessential american success story, right? the son of immigrants who comes. they had no money. his father was helping to build the tennis center. francis was watching on as all the little kids were playing, and he just wanted to play himself. he picked up a racket. he's just a great kid. now he finds himself in the semis of a major. he's electric. he's dynamic. he's so charismatic. what has changed in the last year is that he used to want to win the moment. now he wants to win the match. that's a big, big difference.

he's playing with so much more rigor, so much more discipline. beating nadal was unbelievable. then he went a step further, and now tonight he's in the semis. there's a big difference between being a great player and having a great career, and he used to -- you know, he's been a great player for a couple of years now. now he's trying to have a great career. >> learning how to win. you've seen a lot at the open over the years. this has got to be one of the best stories going, an american when there's been a drought for men for so long. this american who as mary said, father came as a day laborer to build a junior tennis center so has his son pick up a racket, and here he is on the brink of something really special at the open. >> mary's right. this story is a hymn to the immigrant story of america. all the people who try to demonize immigrants don't like francis tiafoe and his mom and his dad. you think about this, this is 65

years after al athea gibson, went to a national championship at forest hills. and now here comes this kid, and really mary, you know i think this. if he ever can win these two more matches that he keeps talking about, this will be as great an american tennis story as has ever been written, and it's so ironic. the first week of this open was all about serena williams, and maybe this last weekend is all going to be about this kid from maryland. >> so mary, just fill out for us the rest of his parents' story. are they able to enjoy this success with him? >> oh, yeah. i mean, they're both in the stands. they're both going nuts. i mean, the whole box is going crazy. he inspires craziness this guy. he's doing great. he's got a big contract. this is a kid who used to have to borrow demo rackets and

that's why his strokes are homemade. every racket was a little different so he would change his strokes. now he's had to reverse engineer a lot of his strokes. he's got a great coach now in wayne ferrera. his mother wanted him to go to school. he kind of fought that off, and now look at him. now this kid is about, as michael said, first week was good-bye to serena. second week might really be hello totiafoe. >> mike, we should point out, he's got a big hill to climb still. this 19-year-old from spain who's playing these five-hour matches until 3:00 in the morning, he's something special too. >> yeah, alcaraz is 19 years old, willie and mary, and it's like he's been pulling all nighters studying for finals here. it's just the final of the u.s. open. it may help tiafoe. you know, it's going to be fun because there's nothingalcaraz. he's the fastest thing i've ever

seen on a tennis court. i cannot wait for 7:00. i did not think that after serena was gone i would be this engaged by the open, and it's going to be great tonight. >> all right. mary carillo, thank you, mike lupica, thank you as well. >> thanks, guys. >> we'll be watching tonight for sure, and mike's new book "fallout" the latest in the jesse stone book series is out now. great to have you both. thank you so much, and gosh, that does it for us this week, and what a week it was. >> what a week. willie, final thoughts? >> yeah, thinking about the queen and that extraordinary image we saw just a few minutes ago of king charles iii. still getting used to saying that, working the line there outside buckingham palace and stepping through that gate as the king for the very first time, a moment that the united kingdom has not seen in 70 years, a new monarch. >> it's unbelievable. >> and we look at that with -- i don't know if trepidation is the word, but just what is this

going to look like? a lot of questions i guess, and a look back on the legacy of queen elizabeth, such elegance, such grace, such restraint. so many things that, i don't know, today's society doesn't have and we can learn from her for sure. >> duty, honor, country, add god to that, and that describes the 96-year-old, the life of queen elizabeth. >> that does it for us this morning and for this week. chris jansing and jose diaz-balart live from london as they pick up msnbc's live coverage right now. ♪♪ >> good morning, 10:00 a.m.

eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific, 3:00 p.m. in the united kingdom. i'm jose diaz-balart joined by my friend and colleague chris jansing in london as we remember queen elizabeth ii. look at when lies ahead for the british monarchy. >> reporter: jose, i'm outside of buckingham palace, and what an extraordinary view onto history. people have been blocking in all day, many of them carrying flowers. just moments ago king charles iii was here greeting many of them. we'll see some of that coming up, but everyone continuing to gather on what is the first full day of mourning for the nation's longest serving monarch. just happening everywhere in london, stores are closing putting up signs saying it's out of respect for the loss of the queen and her loss is having a deep impact on many people including this woman who spoke to our partners at sky ne.