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tv   Alex Wagner Tonight  MSNBC  September 13, 2022 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT

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on tv, or truth social, or facebook about trump himself, but planting evidence, the fbi, or did cause quite information. ask yourself then where are the lawyers. because of everything trump has said is true, and there would be a line around the block to represent to. but no one is there. so next time you go to defend him, ask yourself why no one who had make money doing the same thing will take the job. because i think that tells you everything you need to know. >> politics girl, with some food for thought to take us off the air tonight. where are the lawyers? and on that note, i wish all of you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late, i will see you at the end of tomorrow. e end of tomorrow today, president biden popped on his signature aviator
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sunglasses, i walked out to the south lawn he took off his jacket and eventually gave the white house version of a pep rally. >> exactly four weeks ago today i signed the inflation reduction act into law. the single most important legislation passing through congress to combat inflation and one of the most significant laws in our nation's history. we're gonna lower prescription drugs costs. lower health insurance costs. lower energy costs for millions of families. i want to take the most aggressive action ever, ever, ever to confront the climate crisis and increase our energy security. i want to build the future, the future, here in the united states of america. with american workers, companies, american made products. and after years of some of the biggest corporations in the united states paying zero in federal income tax, they'll not have to begin to literally pay their fair share. making progress and every
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country as big and complicated desires is difficult. it's not easy. i never has been. but i know, with conviction -- progress does come, and it's coming now. >> as much as the white house chalked up the timing of today's event of the four-week anniversary of biden signing the inflation reduction act. it's pretty obvious that today was all about the midterms. shine exactly how much democrats delivered for voters. vered for voters
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-- there's a reason that joe biden was out there celebrating the four-week birthday the inflation reduction act because they know they have to offer something to the american people. they can't rest on their haunches electron and dobbs do the work for them. we have an inflation -- there is talk of a major rail
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strike it could happen as soon as this friday. both of those things are so huge and so deeply felt by the american people. where do you think the biden administration is at this moment in time as they look at the landscape? so i talked to a member of my former colleagues today. there's been a team that's been working secretary walsh was out there trying to get everybody to come to an agreement. we know there's a huge economic impact. we don't need to see that, they don't need that headache.
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when >> you look at the data and how it overlaps the president's approval rating goes up. they're watching that closely as we do in the white house. i got probably teams of people they feel good. what's gonna happen this week.
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that the daily hard to believe developments in the, let's call it, trump and the curious case of the top secret beach club documents. another investigation into the former president has been moving forward out of public
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view. that's the january six committee investigation in the house. the last public hearing the committee held was nearly two months ago. today, they held the four-hour retreat at which they discuss the possibility of another hearing -- testimony from potential witnesses. betty thompson said the committee is discussing september 28, two weeks from tomorrow, mark your town there, as the target -- next public hearing. the four hour meeting comes one day after we learned that the justice department had issued approximately 40 subpoenas in the last week. its ongoing probe into trump and allies efforts to overturn the 2020 election. chairman thompson was asked about the subpoenas and the committees a cooperation with the doj earlier today. >> let's talk about the committees cooperation with the justice department. -- the doj's more active subpoenas, for example? >> --
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i think now that the department of justice is being proactive in -- i think -- [inaudible] >> so, keep an eye out for potentially more cooperation and sharing of information between the justice department and the january six committee. also today,, another member of the committee, as adam king summer, said a criminal referral from the company to the the -- justice department is looking more likely. >> doj has, i think, a pretty fulsome investigation going. that's gonna be where this baton, so to speak, -- criminal referral. i think that's likely. if the rule of law says you can attempt a coup as long as you fail, and you won't be held responsible, that's dangerous
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for this country than this fear of short term violence arising in the strait. >> kinzinger making a point that it's up to the doj in that the committee to impose real consequences for those -- of earth are the result of a legitimate 2020 election victory. that investigation appears to be accelerating. we now that according to -- investigators also stole self funds from trump advisers. look. federal agents -- boris epstein, an in-house counsel who helped to coordinate trump's legal effort and mike lowman, a campaign strategist who is the director of election day operations for the trump campaign in 2020. all of that is a big deal. the justice department is reportedly obtaining search warrants to seize cell phones of trump allies, issuing lot and lots of subpoenas.
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as of last week. now, we have less than 60 days to the election. -- less than two months to the midterms where the department has long term standing practice of not taking public investigative steps in a politically sensitive case so close to election day. but here we are. the doj is not showing any signs of slowing down. today, nbc's own ken delaney asked the head of the justice department's criminal investigation if he could say anything to help the public better understand the flurry of investigative activity in the last week dealing with trump's associates. >> the attorney general will share that it's important for us to preserve all relevant evidence, and that investigation, and any investigation. otherwise we will continue to speak through the work in the filing for the department of justice. >> importance of preserving evidence, you say? you have my attention. joining us now, matt miller,
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former chief spokesman justice department during the obama administration. >> so, for the subpoenas. i think just the timing alone, the number alone, maybe those things together, -- scope of the doj investigation into january 6th. how do you read all this activity? again, in this politically sensitive time before the midterms. >> i think it's clear there is a full scale doj investigation into everything surrounding donald trump's attempt to overturn the election from any nexus to the violence that happened on january 6th to the way he really raised money and spread it, perhaps five vigilantly, through his super pac, to his attempts to -- pressure the vice president intuits them them. i think they crossed an important threshold in june when we learned they took the cell phones of jeffrey clark and john eastman. up until that date, it wasn't certain that the department -- at least there were no public signs that the department was investigating anything other than the violence at the capitol. once they crossed that threshold, i think there's no other path forward than what we're seeing now, which is first subpoenas, and people coming before the grand jury,
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and ultimately the department having to make a decision on whether to bring an indictment. >> so we're talking about all of it here. the state of america pac, it's the fake slates of electors, is the pressuring election officials. all this is on the table for the doj investigation. >> yes. and one of the important things to remember is that there's a number of potential witnesses in subjects, almost 40 people who received subpoenas in the last few days. i don't think we should believe that's the end of the department subpoenas. it's probably just the beginning. these are probably subpoenas for documents. you'll see grand jury subpoenas coming, and these witnesses will have overlapping pieces of information and potentially overlapping criminal liability. when you see the department looking at multiple threats amid mastication, you can see how this might interact with each other. -- may feel pressure cooperating with an until, for example, -- coming cooperate, you come in and cooperate with everything. you can see how quickly the
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department would try to build this operation -- >> pressure point for all these officials analyses who are being subpoenaed here. i'm old enough to remember at the outset of the january 6th hearings. so much pressure, public outcry, about merrick garland and whether he was gonna pursue any of this. and now appears that january six committee in the doj are very much in line with one another in a way that they haven't been up until now. >> they certainly are. and i think the question continues to be, what happened? what turned the justice department on in june? if you talk to people at the justice department, they won't tell you anything about an investigation of course, but they will express frustration that those -- announcing outside were criticizing them for apparent inaction. all of us who have been in the justice department are familiar with the circumstance where you are doing things but you have to keep quiet.
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you get criticized for it but can't defend yourself. but they've always felt like they were investigating aggressively inconsistent. now, we see the evidence. >> what happens here? we have the doj investigation into the beach club papers -- mar-a-lago. and we have this investigation into january 6th. two investigations. -- investigate from the allegations put forth in -- justice department -- an inordinate amount of pressure -- criminal indictment of a former president. what happens here, and how untenable is his position, given institutional norms? look he just has to do what he promised to do since day one since the confirmation hearing, just follow the facts and follow the law, not to fall's way to political pressure. i think the way is comported himself the way he's been such a can cautious conservative attorney general, really more than any of his predecessors in
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recent times is going to serve him well now when he's really navigating these tough waters and making tough decisions. i do think at the same time he does have to listen to the pressure, he does feel it, in a way the mar-a-lago case has delivered him a much easier tries to go forward. if you look at the two cases, it is the much simpler case. i've always believed the most easiest charges to bring against donald trump would be ones that people have been prosecuted for in the past, not something. novel >> like inciting a riot at the capitol? >> nobody is obviously being convicted or indicted for a coup for obvious reasons in this country. they would be vulnerable to challenges on appeal, and with a supreme court who knows what would happen? a lawful retention of classified documents and
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obstructing investigation to them, it's thing not many people going to jail for and it's easier to get them. it appears to be further along, and because the legal issues are much more simple. >> maybe that is the indictment that merrick garland thinks can put the january six aon ice. >> not on ice, but work at the more complicated ones on a longer timeframe. >> we'll be working. former chief spokesman for the justice department during the obama administration thanks for your time. ahead still ahead, one name stands out on trump's team's list for the special master's, not in a good way. as to do with all of. a new york times in the next to get as to getting that are david enrich just written a book but i say law form an extraordinary work trying conservative policy and how it affects donald trump. he will join us next live, that is ahead. stay with us. striving to reach the ultimate goal of zero poverty
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documents from mar-a-lago. the justice department put forward two federal judges, people who they felt could play the role of impartial document referee. the trump team put forward two names, a florida federal judge and a lawyer. now the justice department has suggested it is willing to accept one of trump's suggestions. in a court filing, they would accept trump's choice of judge raymond dearie to be that special master. why would the justice department suggest they would accept one of trump's candidates not the other? well, we really don't know, but it could be because trump's other candidate for the special master job has two words on his cv that are a big red flag. the words are jones day. trump's special master's candidate is paul huck junior, a partner at that mega law firm. jones day is one of the largest
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law firms in the country, and like most large law firms in the country, it's old. it's been around for nearly 130 years. what sets them apart from other law firms is it spent the last six years serving interests of one claim in particular, donald trump. and in return, donald trump has done his part to serve jones day. new york times business investigations editor that are david enrich has just written a book called soldiers of the day and, law forms and donald trump in the corporate corruption of justice. in it, he says how jones day made its way into trump's orbit. he traces the beginnings back to the first campaign, when john's day decided to take on trump as a client. in return, trump gave jones day total control over his plans to appoint new judges, conservative judges to the court. most importantly, the supreme court. this is important not because
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it's the supreme court, because candidate trump's list will become a crucial turning point for his campaign. mitch mcconnell would explain years later that quote, the list reassured a whole lot of republicans that okay, maybe trump was doing fundraisers for four years but looks like he's okay on something that's important to us. the creation of the less mcconnell added, became the single biggest issue bringing our side and lied behind him, him as in trump. after trump became president, he appointed joins day lawyer, a guy named don mcgahn to be white house counsel and immediately began using his role to fill the federal courts with jones day approved judges. enrich says quote, in the white house there had been a saying
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among some republicans at john 's day, no vacancy left behind. i wasn't out of course to how many conservative mccann was and betting in the judiciary. but i had a more close to home meaning. john's day lawyers were those ending up on the bench. and there is more to the relationship between jones day and trump between appointing judges. enrich writes in his book quote, inside and outside the government jones, day had done as much as any private institution to help trump and his in ministration. it wasn't just defending the campaign against the mueller investigation, and it wasn't just mcgahn's herculean efforts to protect the president from ending up in court. once they had done a smorgasbord of federal bodies the consumer product safety commission and of course the justice department, which had been transformed into a political pundit of the white house. the relationship between the two enemies, the trump administration and the law form of john's day, is unlike anything we've ever seen for any other big law form from any other other presidential administration. and just four years, jones day wedded itself to trump and his
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movement. he represented trump from's for stopping votes being counted. asking the court to reject certain mailin votes in pennsylvania. that didn't ultimately work but the relationship didn't after trump lost. this is what enrich rights after trump's election defeat. jones day was poised to become a refuge for battle scarred veterans of the trump administration, who given the presidents toxicity would be unwelcome at many law firms. given the exodus from the administration, would alter the identity of the 126-year-old law firm. we are watching the legacy of trump and jones day play out each and every day when the supreme court ends the road right to safe and legal abortion -- as we look forward, what might it mean to have one of the world's most dominant law firms in trump's corner as he looks to regain power and undermine american democracy? i will ask david enrich. that and so much more.
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details the history of how john's day, one of american's biggest law firms, turn talent for representing unsavory characters into a political when fall by allying with the most unsavory character of the mall, donald trump. -- known for decades to be a tireless an extremely successful defender of some of america's worst corporate actors. the firm helped rj reynolds -- dangers of cigarettes, and helped -- protect its patents for oxycontin. it made a name for itself breaking in billions a year in -- tobacco, opioid, gun and oil companies. with donald trump, they took on another calling. reshaping the federal judiciary for generations and working inside the white house to influence national policy. as hemorrhage writes in his book -- the position of a new snake in washington, after decades of swelling ambition. what transpired at the donald trump era was an extraordinary transfer of talent. it brought the law form to a new administration. joining us now is david hemorrhage. he's an investigative journalist that the new york times and the author of the
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four mentioned book. it's a 30 reported we'd. david, congrats on the publication. >> thank you. good to be here. >> how did this happen? we know jones day leans conservative, but it's been supercharged and the run up to the election in 2016, and of course, once trump was president. for people who haven't read the puck, can you explain that metamorphosis and offer more details on the appalachian of this law form? >> the started years before trump came up in the political scene. john's day under its management partner, a conservative man, started taking on not these clients, but also causes. one other big issues under obama was attacking obama care. they launched multiple legal challenges trying to undermine the new health care law. the firm has increasingly become a home for conservative republican lawyers that wouldn't have been quite as
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powerful at other establishments in washington or around the country. in 2015, they hired -- 2014, they hired a group of hatchet republican lawyers to start a new practice that was devoted to helping republicans get elected. and one of these people in particular, don mcgahn, would soon become a household name. when the first cleanse he took on a nearly 2015 was the trump campaign. the interim saw idle ion on the lot of issues, but more than that, he saw -- strong beliefs >> particularly strong beliefs. that's one word for it. >> i sometimes speaking euphemisms. and he thought trump was his vessel to achieve many of his -- career ambitions. this included remaking the judiciary, and included dismantling what mcgahn disparagingly referred to as
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the administrated state. and trump was very happy to have people like mcgahn and -- it led a lot of establishment credibility to him at a time when not a lot of people were taking his campaign seriously. >> it's the moment when trump sort of convinces skeptical establishment republicans when he talks about this list of people he to point, and mcgahn is the linchpin. he's the guy connecting the federal society and their long laundry list of conservative justices and judges for the trump administration. and then, the list as he used. >> that's exactly right. it's not just mcgahn. it's a lot of other lawyers, it's the ferments off. the list was hatched at a meeting in offices on capitol hill. they brought together people like leonard leo, a bunch of republican lawmakers, and when mcgahn becomes the first white house counsel with trump, -- many -- strands himself not just in the white house counsel's office and elsewhere in the white
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house but throughout the federal government. and particular the justice department. together, all these lawyers who have just come from john's day really go out of their way to completely reconstitute the federal judiciary -- federalist society, just a very different court. >> yeah. we're seeing the harvest of that on a daily basis. what the mentioning is not just sight of, a whole bunch of conservative lawyers doing a whole punch of conservative lawyer. this is like lawyering like we have been seen before. the viciousness, the philosophy, the tactics that the use. i'll draw everyone's attention to an example in and around the pennsylvania -- after the 2020 election. john's day -- trying to stop this from being counted. not because they thought there was something improper underway. there was your evidence about that. but because they detected an
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opportunity to use the law to give their side a political edge. and the firms calculus, the consequences banning fears of fraud -- that would two months later erupted violent assault on democracy, those consequences were immaterial. they're practicing law in a way that not even the hallmark in a lot of the ways of the republican party in the conservative movement, but this seems like the origin story for some of that. >> i think that's exactly right. the origin story for johnston learned these tactics is that they for decades had -- rj are. i'm just going to these extraordinary lengths to not only win in court and protect their clients but to get steamrolled -- their opponents in ways that a lot of experts and people have spoken to at jones day war with pushing the envelope in a way that made a lot of people uncomfortable. this becomes the norm in corporate litigation, being brought to bear in the political ground and litigation like we saw in pennsylvania in 2020. and surprise surprise, they're using a lot of the same kind of smash mid tactics that have been perfected in the corporate
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arena. that's an important line to draw between what law firms did around big tobacco and guns, and applying those lessons and tactics and the political world. so it's dangerous, i call it a chapter, but it could be a dangerous teacher for american politics. what's also stunning is calling it a revolving door between discussed servant of law firm in the white house -- it's an understatement. there's no analog on the left. is that? i know those traditional watch groups of the kind. this -- liberal justices. but there's not this ecosystem that it exists on the right. >> i don't think there's anything equal to it. -- he called on the right either. and it's not just in terms of mcgahn masterminding the remake of the federal court, but on behalf of -- become kind of funny if it weren't so prevalent in a lot of ways. and if there is an example, that detail in the book -- under criminal and civil investigation from the criminal justice but department. --
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large part veterans day lawyers. the representing walmart. -- and does its darndest to derail that investigation and away that left federal prosecutors, including some that were employed by trump, just absolutely aghast at what they were saying. >> it is shocking and very important reporting that you have in this book. thank you, congrats on the back. >> thank you so much. >> author of the new book servants of the damned. thank you. again, we'll be right back. $0 delivery fee for a limited time.
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before we go. tomorrow i will be joined by georgia's democratic candidate for governor stacey abrams right here on the show. i'll be talking to her about voter suppression efforts and what it will take to install a democrat in the georgia governor's mansion. you do not want to miss it. that does it for us tonight. we will see it again tomorrow. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening. lawrence good evening alex, that'll be the seventh general assembly of the united nations meeting. we have the united states ambassador to the united nations joining us, linda thomas-greenfield. and normally in any kind of normal world, she would be the lead guest for the first half hour of the show. it's a very big deal having the un ambassador here, but we also have a ron kaine we may have heard of, white house chief of staff. and the man of the hour, the day, the week and possibly some weeks to come, geoffrey berman is going to lead us off.

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