hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. big decisions loom for the members of the january 6 select committee. tasked with investigating the deadly capitol insurrection as those members prepare the final act as what has been historic congressional probe into the plot to overturn the 2020 presidential election. politico is out with brand new reporting on the big questions facing the january 6th select committee. quote, should they seek donald trump's testimony? what should they do with republican lawmakers who defied subpoenas? will they be able to negotiate an interview with mike pence? members of the january 6th select committee is confronting

a to do list including sop of the most precedent setting decisions as they prepare to present closing arguments. add to that list what to do with the mountain of evidence they have accumulated specifically about donald trump's role, hands-on role as the driving force behind the campaign to overturn the 2020 election. one that would ultimately endanger his own vice president and members of congress. here's what committee chairman bennie thompson said about this when speaking to reporters on tuesday. >> i think now that the department of justice is being proactive, i think it's time for the committee to determine whether or not the information can be beneficial to that investigation. >> so thompson added in that press avail that the committee will issue an interim report in october followed by a final report by the committee at the end of the year. all the vital work by the the select committee happens as the

existential threat to democracy posed by trump and his big lie, a threat that the committee has already laid out in stunning detail over a series of hearings over the summer, shows no signs of evading. a report shows election deniers are on the november ballot. all over the country in races for healthcare.gov governor and secretary of state and general election battleground states. places lick arizona, pennsylvania and michigan. it's the culmination of a political party that has gone all in on the big lie. going hand in hand with the gop election denialism is the campaign to wash the attack itself. it got a big boost last night from the ex-president himself. he called in to a rally held in support of january 6th defendants, criminal defendants, and he spoke to the mother. bab bottom was shot and killed while storming the capitol on january 6th.

the january 6th select committee's buildup to the final act as the ex-president poses an on going threat to democracy somewhere we start the hour. politico national correspondent is here. with us at table, harry litman, former deputy assistant attorney general. he's the host of the podcast "talking fed." rick stengel is here. betsy, i want to start with you. not for nothing, we do not amply if i the twice impeached ex-president's comments, especially the ones of this variety. but this is an important one. i'm going to read what he said. donald trump calls in to a rally for the january 6th defendants and says about, it's a terrible thing that happened to people being treated unfairly. we love ashley. the man that shot ashley was a

disgrace. the man that shot ashley was a cop. >> it's just an extraordinary comment for a former president to make in regards to such a horrendous and violent attack. and it's also really interesting in the context of the midterms because up until just a month or two ago, republicans felt like they very much had the wind all the their backs going into november. all the polling showed things were going well for them. there was a lot of measuring the drapes when it came to what would happen in congress. but now when you have the defacto leader of the republican party associating himself so closely with people who are incarcerated and charged with violent attacks on literally on the nation's capitol building, that just compounds the extraordinary political pressure that the gop is facing right now. because it raises questions not

just about trump. we knew where trump was at when it came broadly to the january 6th fallout, but it also raises questions for every other republican running for federal office. do they think people who have been charged and pleaded guilty or bye-bye convicted in january 6th are being treated unfairly. do they think it was inappropriate for a law enforcement officer to take action to protect the capitol building during a violent attack when members' lives were at danger? suddenly these issues were being brought to the forefront. >> rick, i don't run campaigns. i don't work on them anymore. but if i d here's the ad that would be out today. the man who shot ashley was a disgrace. the man was a cop. and every republican running for everything from dogcatcher to senator should answer whether or not they think the cop who protected the capitol and the likes of ted cruz and every

republican who also ran for their life, they should be asked whether they agree with that or not. >> trump will be defunding the police pretty soon. she's become a martyr figure for the insurrectionists. >> just ask putin. he said it first. >> by the way, as appalling as trump's comments are about ashley, he said something a couple weeks ago. if i'm reelected president i will pardon every single person who was part of the attack on the capitol. if i were a political consultant, i would say you're running for office. if he's reelected, he will pardon everybody. do you support that? ask that to every republican candidate in the fall. >> the pardon process by donald

trump was scrutinized. there was some fantastic investigative reporting, but it always landed on the fact that a president's ability to pardon was absolute. so there weren't a lot of legal questions around what he did. but the constellation is now complete. it's the big deeper of favors for trump. that's who he is. >> it's well put. i toept think it's absolute. he couldn't do it based on race. there's good reason for thinking his pardons were among his more corrupt acts to the extent they were quid pro quo for testimony or oh kinds of attempts to induce. so he was really dodgy there. it's one of the scores of things that went under the radar with so much to cover. i agree with rick. the logic is my eneenemies, but with friends like these, he went

full qanon down to the button on his jacket. and you have to think there are a number of trump supporters out there who like him for whatever reason, but won't go that far. i think somehow it's caught up in his head with the whole fbi investigation against him. but he's really railing on the entire government and law enforcement. i think that's close to a third rail. >> that presumes we still have those third rails. harry mentioned the qanon. this is from ben collins who tweeted, quote, trump going mask off. the qanon stuff on truth social today. he retruthed a photoshop of himself wearing a q pin plus a couple of q catch phrases from a q account. trump is not flirting with qanon anymore. he's moving in. this is a political evolution, i guess. i don't know what we call it.

it has serious domestic security implications. christopher rae testified in september of the election year that domestic violent extreism of the white premise cyst stripe was of the gravest threat to the homeland. qanon is in a bucket of its own. it's bizarre. and trump is all in. >> yeah, it's a completely bonkers conspiracy theory. part of the reason that in addition to everything else, it's a total head scratcher that you have trump amplifying qanon messages is that the conspiracy theory debunked itself over the course of trump's presidency. it was built on this notion that trump was going to take all these dramatic steps to incarcerate hillary clinton and send generals to gitmo and on and on. steps that trump never took. you don't have to have a super

great relationship with reality to recognize that hillary clinton is not in prison right now despite all the predictions of the qanon people. despite that, despite the fact that these predictions just fell flat one after another after another, we still now perplexingly have trump more on board with it than he was when he was in office. it's befuddling in addition to a whole bunch of other things and it also shows the extent to which trump is no longer surrounded by any people who are telling him, hey, maybe pump the brakes. maybe tamp this down. maybe exercise a little messaging discipline. that's no longer the case. >> who would do that? the lawyer who lied for him? it's not clear that a lot of people did that while he was president. i remember savannah guthrie pressuring him in a town hall

and it's the same as being asked about the proud boys. he doesn't have anything in him that understands why a public figure, let alone a president and commander-in-chief, should push back against an extremist group. >> in a way, he was a captive of the oval office when he was in office. there was a number of people who could say you shouldn't echo this. but now he's kind of unbridled. there's nothing containing him. you see how deeply extremist he is and not even understanding what he's saying. although maybe he is. the thing is what we can do here, what the opportunity for electoral politics is that you can peel away independent republican voters who feel like, you know what, that insurrection was beyond the pale. i koent support anybody who is going to pardon these people. i'm in favor of law enforcement. i can't vote for this guy. the president of the united states and baically attacking every kind of statute and rule

of law that we have. so that is an opportunity. i think even as awful as these conspiracy theories are, it's still a minority of people who believe them. >> i raise these events because it feels like the world has changed since the last january 6th public hearing. and in some ways it has. the criminal investigation and the national security concerns about an american ex-president are not just current here. but the picture around the threat that donald trump created on the 6th and his doubling down on the bad actors, the criminals who carried out the insurrection is so flag rant now, it's so brazen. i wonder what you think that portends for the stakes of the next round of public hearings for the select committee. >> it portends more of the same. one thing is that it's basically talk about getting trump to testify. it would be useless. the big thing about them, they don't have a lot of time. it's 10:30, 11:00 on the

cinderella clock. a final report in december, so they have to make hay while the sun is still shining. they have done a very good job at taking what they have got and not fighting the rest. they have over a thousand interviews. they put it all together comprehensively. there's very much now for the doj to do. it's been bizarre to me why they have been so arms length about sharing information, but at this point, it's going to be a major handoff to them. they want the doj to succeed. they want the doj to have a full investigation that incorporates all their materials. i think that's what they are starting to think about. >> it's important the materials were well gotten by former doj employees, by former u.s. attorneys. perfect time to bring into our coverage the congressman from california, a member of the house select january 6th

committee. congresswoman, thank you for being with us. we have been discussing how the picture of trump's commitment to the insurrection and the insurrectionists is more out in public than it was since the last public hearing wrapped. he was disparaging the law enforcement officials who protected all of you and his own vice president on that day. at a rally, he said the man who shot ashley bab by the was a disgrace. i wonder if that changes the stakes for your public work. >> sometimes i think i can't be shocked, and then he shocks me again. >> i know the feeling. >> the idea that he's promised

to pardon people who brutally assaulted capitol police, who were protecting the vice president. they protected me. and it's outrageous. he's praising them. not only did they try to overturn our democracy, but they did so with brutal violence. many of them have gotten lengthy sentences because of the violence and the multiple felonies that they committed. so yeah, that's even worse than originally thought. we're going to continue to do our work, finish up the fact finding. this is information that was stated publicly, so it's out there. we don't need to let the public know perhaps about it, but it does fit in with many of the other things that we have discovered. >> does he make you all less safe?

>> i hope not. people who serve in public office to so because they care about their country and they are trying to do the right thing. certainly, the ex-president's call to violence did endanger us on january 6th. those rioters weren't come shake hands with us. they were coming to kill mike pence. we know from much of the materials come out in the department of justice filings that they intended to do physical volence to people that they discovered in the congress. so that's something that isn't the right way and our american democracy and it's something that the president i thinker bears some responsibility for. >> i asked you that because specific reporting in "the washington post" that your colleague on the committee now has security detail. the post writes, deputies in the

sheriffs office have been providing represent luria a security detail as she serves on the house committee investigating the january 6th riot. a vote to authorized payments to the deputies. and it feels like a tenant of our criminal justice system as if a insurrectionist stands trial, they plead for leniency in sentencing or other mitigating factors. the judges have been stern that they are responsible for their actions, but you have the presidential over here saying don't worry. i'll pardon you. i wonder if that makes them a different kind of danger, that they are not normal criminal who is may serve their time and be able to emerge in society. they are people who will be rewarded pardons. >> it's a message not just to those who committed violence on january 6th, but to others who are thinking about departing from our democracy and moving into a more authoritarian sl through violence.

really it's a message that you're going to be okay. that if the ex-president is reelected, people who move us away from democracy are going to be given leniency and pardons if they do so with violence. it's not what should be done, butt ex-president has done a lot of things that should not have been done. >> a key figure emerged in and around the public testimony of cassidy hutchinson as someone who she had a conversation with about donald trump's rage and not being shuttled back up to the capitol. let me share something that your colleague adam kinzinger told cnn. it says, members of the panel believe that former secret service agents were personally involved in effort os to discredit the testimony of aid cassidy hutchinson. while he was still at the agency. and said unnamed officials and

others simply adopted his side of of the story. i just think it's so important to keep in mind that through, quote, anonymous sources, which we believe to actually be tony himself, he pushed back against cassidy hutchinson's testimony and said it's not true. tony will testify under oath. he has not come in to testify under oath. are you still seeking the testimony of tony ornato and the other agents? i remember you sharing with us, have obtained private counsel. >> the answer is yes. we will do that in an orderly fashion when we have had an opportunity to review the large amount of documentary evidence that has now come in from the secret service. it's important that we get that information reviewed before we reinterview him. >> do you have new evidence that wasn't at your disposal at the time of the last public hearing

ended? >> yes. >> care to categorize i any of that? >> no, you know our rules don't allow us to categorize or discuss the evidence, but new information has come in. and some of it is very pertinent. some of it is less relevant, but it's been a large volume of information that we really pressed hard for the agency to release. they should have done so before we had to issue subpoenas earlier this summer. but there's now a very steady flow of data coming in to the committee and it's a huge amount. it takes a little bit to go through it all. >> i know you tried very hard not to do this, but i believe you just told us something new. i'm going to ask you one more question.

there was so much news coverage, great investigative journalism, about the text messages and all the comes and the committee not being told in a timely or forthright manner. what you're describing is a huge amount of information. i'm guessing you found other sources for what you were looking for in the text? is that right? >> i didn't say what specific types of information. i mean, i really am not at liberty to do that under the committee rules. there's texts, there's e-mails, that's radio, there's all kinds of information. so we're going through everything that's been provided. more is coming in. as i say, some of it is not relevant and some of it is. and it's a huge slog to go through it, but we're going to go through it. and the members of the committee themselves have been involved in this. and we hope to have that completed soon. >> it is nothing that has come in that you're aware of so far

is in conflict with any of the public testimony presented by the committee to date? >> let me say i have some concerns about documents and then comparing to some of the testimony that we have received. we hope to resolve any discrepancies in a way that would make sense. we'll have to do that as we proceed in an orderly way. >> will that be part of the public hearing because it was such a high profile element of the previous public hearings? >> don't know yet. i can't lay out all of what we're going to have. as you know, you can't fit everything into the two-hour hearing. so there's a lot of important information that we have found really for the other hear thags have already been held that really couldn't fit into the timeframe of the hearing. we're talking as a committee on how do we get those key elements of information that we couldn't

present, how do we get that out in a way that makes sense that the public can access. i don't know that secret service will be part of that, but we want to get all the relevant information out in a way that the public can take a look and make up their own minds. >> congresswoman, everything about what we as a public understand about doj's interest in the events that have been revealed and story told so expertly by the committee, we know from reporting, which is most likely an incomplete picture, but we know the subject of the committee of of the hearing you led is now under criminal investigation. have you shared the evidence that went into your public hearing with doj? >> let me just say, again, the committee rules don't allow me to disclose that, but i think

we'll have a very collaborative relationship with the department of justice as they move forward. a lot of the information that we have has been acquired through records that they also can get. so they are the ones that have to decide whether there was criminal activity. that's not a legislative committee's role. i said at some point, this was the big lie and the big ripoff. it's possible to do a ripoff and a rift without kmiting a crime. so they will have to decide that. clearly, he did empty people's pockets under false pretenses. >> i'm not sure how closely you're tracking sort of the right wing commentary around the lar la go search and the president's stealing and hoarding and lying about returning documents. >> i have been in the house

judiciary committee listening to the republican members, so i have had that treat. >> i would love to hear what that's like. i wonder what you make of this analysis from far right legal mind john yu who said i don't know about charging trump for the mar-a-lago crimes, which one, he did it, and two, it's clearly criminal. maybe you wait and charge hum for his january 6th crimes. he seems to be ahead of the other legal analysis. after everything you have seen and everything that you have poured through, analyzed and some you shared with the public, to you believe donald trump should be charged were january 6th-related crimes? >> i'm not in a position to make that announcement yet. i think the committee will have a discussion and make referrals or not. we'll have an intentional decision on that. but i do think what he did was wrong. he assembled a mob. he knew they were armed. he september them to the capitol

to prevent the counting of the votes. that's just the truth. and whether that constitutes a crime, that's for the department of justice to say, but it certainly was not right. it's not in keeping with the american tradition. it's unconstitutional. and potentially a crime. as i say, that's for doj to allege, not us. >> congresswoman, you have been very generous with your time. thank you very much. >> you bet. take care. when we come back with our panel, we'll turn to the mar-a-lago story. the ex-president's flop on claims he declassified all or anything of the documents he took and kept and lied about returning. doj attempting to shut down that shaky legal defense. where thatheading, next. plus mike lindell was tracked down at a hardee's drive-thru by the fbi related to

yet another investigation into alleged security breaches of local election offices around the country. the mypillow guy says his phone, which he also says holds everything, is now in the hands of the federal government. what this will tell us about the inner workings of the doj and the ongoing probes. later in the program, with primary season in the books, the general election race is on capped off by one more election denier making his way on to the ballot for u.s. senate. the extreme gop showing us exactly who they are and what they are running on. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. (motor starting) the most fun we have on the gator is just ripping around the property. it's a springtime tradition. yeah, who needs tv when you have...

...decoys and the dogs. there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. learn more at deere.com. [acoustic soul music throughout] [acoustic soul music throughout] there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. [acoustic soul music throughout] life... doesn't stop for diabetes. be ready for every moment, with glucerna. it's the number one doctor recommended brand that

is scientifically designed to help manage your blood sugar. live every moment. glucerna. hi, i'm jason and i've lost 202 pounds on golo. being a veteran, the transition from the military into civilian life causes a lot of stress. i ate a lot for stress. golo and release has helped me with managing that stress and allowing me to focus on losing weight. for anyone struggling with weight and stress-related weight gain, i recommend golo to you.

this is a real thing. this is not a hoax. you follow the plan, you'll lose weight. ♪♪ welcome to home sweet weathertech home. a place where dirt stays outside. and floors are protected. where standing is comfortable. and water never leaves a mark. it's spotless under the sink. and kids can be kids. order your american made products at weathertech.com.

we're back with everyone. i had not heard this before about what the committee received after all the flurry of stories about how secret service destroyed all the text communications on and around and since the january 6th insurrection. but she just told us that they have a lot of new evidence that fell in the category of texts, e-mails, she put it all in a list and said they had so much of it they were still going through it. >> yeah, i thought that was pretty notable too. the secret service's line since long before it became such a focal part of the january 6th probe has been they are fully cooperating with this select committee and they didn't even need to be subpoenaed to present witnesses to testify and to share documents with the select

committee. remember they testified behind closed doors to the select committee. my understanding is they went in voluntarily without having been subpoenaed. those interviews happened before cassidy hutchinson's bomb shell testimony. that said, the secret service's position has been we're fully cooperating and giving the committee everything they want. despite that, the select committee has taken more aggressive steps to get more information out of the secret service and the fact that now more information is materializing raises certainly some questions about just how cooperative the secret service actually was with the select committee. now one other point from her interview that i think is worth noting is that she still hasn't cleared up why they didn't immediately move to just

reinterview engel and ornato of after the testimony. they were reviewing documents and want to be careful and thorough about it. thoroughness and caution are to be, but it doesn't take a huge document review to ask somebody under oath to bring them in and ask them do you have this conversation. did you see this violent attack happen in the back of the president's vehicle on january 6th. the fact that the select committee has waited so long to bring back in both of these people means that it maybe a little more challenging for them to get ornato. they could have interviewed him while he was a secret service employee, but they waited for a long time and now he's retired and no longer has bosses above him who could push him to get in there on a shorter timeline. so i still don't understand why they have taken so long to try to bring back in both of these two men or even ask for written answers to questions, but the

revelation today they received lots and lots of new information and lots of new mediums certainly highlights the fact that the committee knows more about the entire secret service debacle than the public is aware of. >> and to betsy's point, they know that adam kinzinger was comfortable alleging on tv that the panel has evidence and they believe that former secret service agent is involved in efforts to discredit the testimony of cassidy hutchinson while he was still at the secret service. and that other officials at the united states secret service adopted his side of the story. so they have unpacked a lot of not just what happened in the vehicle and while trump was there, but a lot of the efforts to smear an important witness. >> so two points. first, on the actual production. betsy is write rooigt they said we're not sure we can get

anything. scenes from the congress had to say, they got a lot. if you look at the july 15th letter from bennie thompson to the secret service, that's what they want. they want the deleted e-mails. tony screams out to be interviewed. that's probably one of the reasons he retired so he wouldn't be ordered by his employer to do it. but who is the source of the story that cassidy hutchinson told? ornato is the one she reports said theeds things and now backs away from them means they really have to interview them. i assume he was kind of squirrely, bobbed and weaved and now it's more difficult, but it's a good example of the one-two inch that is the january 6th committee and the department of justice because if they don't have time now and they are not able to make ornato come forward, the doj surely can. unless he's a target, then that's a whole other consideration. but if he's not, they will make

him come. there's no funny business with the doj. he will show up and talk. >> when trump has mitigating evidence, he usually tweets it or he's banned from twitter so he puts it wherever he put it is. he does not ep keep it secret for this long. >> he makes it up actually. >> and again, we're talking about this part of the testimony because this tied trump not just to the violence, but to wanting to participate in the violence. what was happening at the capitol where he wanted to go was violence, which is the vice president running for his life. >> what i think is really important here is that the select committee is sort of a blocking back for the justice department. they have been out ahead. er they are creating holes that the justice department can can run through. what they decide to do in the next hearing will be very pivot tall to what the justice department does. it seems with the latest

subpoenas that the justice department is quite far behind where the select committee is. and the select committee is paving the way for them. in fact, it looks lick they are going to collaborate more. what they decide to do is important. if they can further link trump and show his state of mind that he knew people were armed, he knew people were violent and he wanted them to use violent means to overthrow the government, that's the grand slam. >> that's the smoking gun. i want to turn to the other criminal investigation involving or looking at donald trump's conduct as the search at mar-a-lago. today the government has basically called out trump's argument that he declassified any documents calling that irrelevant. >> yeah, that's right. they pointed out first that trump's lawyers had yet to definitively argue these

documents or declassified and they added that these documents are government property. even if trump had declassified them, which his lawyers hadn't said in court, if that were case, he wouldn't get to keep them because clearly they belong to the government and the people of the united states and not just to trump personally. the other point that they made in this latest filing that we have seen is that the president himself hasn't put forward any evidence, even in public, besides just his word that these documents were his personal property under the presidential records act or or that these documents were declassified. that he declassified them. essentially, it would be trump's word substantiated by nothing in writing, at least that we are aware of thus far. you have to imagine within the justice department people are a little perplexed that there hasn't been a stronger argument made by trump and his lawyers in defense of one of the key claims that trump himself is pushing in

his public platforms regarding these documents and defending the fact that he took them, that he kept them and even now he's trying to get them back. >> they might be perplexed, but they haven't met all his lawyers under investigation for lying. let me add two more pieces to the filing that i want to ask you about. doj pointing back to the, quote, exceptionally grave damage to u.s. national security in the handling and hoarding of these documents as well as pointing out that trump hasn't addressed this harm. describing it as a document storage dispute might have been a good thing for fox news, but it's not helping him legally. >> it definitely begs the question. overdue library books don't kill people. but they did more than that. betsy said it's 100% right that principle 1 through 10, no

possible argument he has any right to them, period, full stop. he gave no arguments to the contrary. but they do stick the knife in a little bit. i don't think they are perplexed. i think they expected even though he's been trumpeting this in the public sphere, he couldn't make his lawyers say it in an arena where there are kobs kwenss for lying. not only did they say he's never tried to say it, in a court of law, you need declarations and sworn testimony. he comes nowhere close. they do one more thing, which is, okay, you begged us, here you go. there's a real public interest in the dispatch of a criminal investigation. you asked, here you go. you, donald trump, are under criminal investigation. there's a real interest in the united states in doing that right. and you have given us another chance by leading with your chin to make sure erbe knows it. >> to be continued.

thank you for your coverage and for joining us. stick around for the rest of the hour. when we come back, the fbi taking the cell phone of the mypillow guy. what that phone of the prominent election denier and pillow guy and spreader of conspiracies might have on it that is of interest to federal investigators. that story is next. investigators. that story is next onic migraine- 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. so far, more than 5 million botox® treatments have been given to over eight hundred and fifty thousand chronic migraine patients. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache.

don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. in a survey, 92% of current users said they wish they'd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you. learn how abbvie could help you save on botox®. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we lost about everything trying to pay for prescriptions. we spent our whole pension but couldn't keep up. so my husband just stopped

taking his medicine. and then he had a stroke. i can't get back what i lost, but thanks to aarp, a new law will protect seniors with a cap on their prescription costs. that could have changed everything for us. i'm just grateful that no one will have to face the terrible choices that we did

mike lindell usually referred to as the pillow guy is going to the oval to plan the coup, to this day says the fbi questioned him yesterday and seized his cell phone. lindell tells the "new york times" he was in the drive-thru line at a hardee's when his vehicle was surrounded by several cars the agents presented him with a search and seizure warrant and interviewed him for 15 minutes. lindell, who continues to promote conspiracy theories about the 2020, says the agents asked him about tina peters. she's the colorado clerk dooitd on multiple felony dharges for allegedly tampering with the voting machines. the times explains, the search is a sign that a federal investigation into ms. peters has reached a prom figure in the national movement to investigate

situation. joining me at the table vaughn hilliard. you have ended up on this election denier beat. i'm sorry for you, but so grateful that we have you there and happy for us. tell me the story. remind everyone who she is and her ties to lindell and what this means. >> i think it was in colorado covering the senate race over the summer. but tina peterss is this figure who was indicted back in march for allowing somebody to come in. she's the county clerk. this is a far western county in colorado along with her deputy allowing somebody to take copies of the dominion voting systems along with passwords. then it got the into the the hands of right-wing outlets that fell into the hands of conspiracy theorists. that's what led to her indictment. this indicates the do jets's investigation is contining. whether mike lindell is a subject himself, we don't know. but she's a close aal lie of mike lindell. it's important to understand

while we may know him as the mypillow guy, he's the show. almost every trump rally i have been to over the last year, been one of the prespeakers. he spoke at cpac and the rnc convention. he's at the forefront of who dth is. he was at the white house. >> he's also the one around whom legal extreme legal peril follows. it's some of the segments that we have aired here of lindell continuing to pedal the conspiracy theories about dominion that were shut down by some of those right wing autojout lets because of the billion-dollar lawsuits. he's facing a lot of legal exposure. >> that defamation lawsuit that's ongoing now, and potentially now the doj, he's helped contribute his own money to tina peters' defense fund. when i was with her this summer, we engaged in a conversation that was not in our reality

here. i think it's important to understand these people are defiant. she's pleading not dplt. she was arraigned just two weeks ago. these are folks who remain committed to somehow proving that the election was rigged and that the donald trump got 10 million more votes. right there on the spot after our interview, she goes do you know the secretary of state candidate in arizona. she calls him up on speakerphone. these folks are in contact with one another. mike lindell, tina peters, mark finch um, secretary of state candidate in nevada, these folks are all in touch. he told me they feel like it's important to work in conjunction with one another along with those in michigan to be on the same page about their next steps are. they intend to all be in office. there's a very decent chance that these folks could be there. so while tina peters may be on

the line of facing doj prosecution, we don't know what happens to mike lindell next. we're two months away from some of these individual who is are facing the doj investigation potentially being in office at the same time. >> doj if you're listening, vaughn just laid out a criminal conspiracy to commit election fraud. they are all talking. isn't that potentially why they are under investigation? >> it is i want to put an explanation point on what vaughn said. peters is facing state charges. so this subpoena, this it seizing by the fbi means that the department is interested in it. it's more broad. and what does that mean? it possibly connects to donald trump. it wasn't long ago that they were being criticized. now they are the opposite casting a very broad net. just to contrast quickly their mission with the january 6th committee, there's now with this maybe six or seven potential crimes in play. the committee wants to paint an overall picture that all points in the same direction.

the department's job is different. it has to pick and choose and which among them will be the strongest sort of spear for all the elements beyond a reasonable doubt. but they are certainly looking very wide including now this. >> i have another question. stick around through a quick break. don't go anywhere. we'll be right pack. stick arou break. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. my name is douglas. i'm a writer/director and i'm still working. in the kind of work that i do, you are surrounded by people who are all younger than you. i had to get help somewhere along the line

to stay competitive. i discovered prevagen. i started taking it and after a period of time, my memory improved. it was a game-changer for me. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. she was supposed to be the one. i used to believe in the one. and then i realized, there's plenty of savings in the sea. what? amazon has daily deals, so every day is a chance

to meet the deal that catches your eye, that shakes your soul, that changes your destiny. i'm gonna go check on those tater tots. learn all the ways to save with amazon. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day, that's effective without topical steroids. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. plus, they felt fast itch relief

some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. ♪♪ giorgio, look! the peanut butter box is here. ralph, that's the chewy pharmacy box with our flea and tick meds. it's not peanut butter. ♪ the peanut butter box is here ♪ i'm out. pet prescriptions delivered to your door. chewy. rick, what vaughn describes

are cultists chiting a crime. >> they have a brief and their belief is based on the fact that their king could never have lost an election by that margin and won by 10 million votes, and they try to find evidence that corroborates that. i think what we'll find in the dominion suit, the chain of custody, all this will show that what they're alleging is absolutely impossible. again, it's a matter of theological belief for them. i don't know what their end game is other than donald trump being re-elected in pardoning them. >> but the theology has as its entire animating purpose the corruption of the election system, the same election sent hundreds of republicans back to the capitol. do they think that way or no, they don't think? >> no, especially when they're losing. tina peters ran for secretary of state this summer and came in

third. she even paid for a recount because she couldn't believe that she actually lost by the margin that she did. i think when you're talking about donald trump, some of these figures, i think they're having a hard time with it. that's a message with tina peters, we are a real threat to those that have been selecting those in power. >> what does that mean? >> they're making the claim in georgia, that those who are losing, the machines with the algorithms, have actually changed the outcome of these races. >> is that what the fbi is looking at? >> if they take tina peter's phone, there's messages with me, it says we're a real threat to those selecting who is in power. despite the doj investigation and the defamation lawsuit, mike lindell is still going out on the stage and giving speeches. >> i don't think the end game is they be smothered or killed, i think the end game is they be crippled.

we're going to have extremists around. we want the broader society to see them as losers and we want them to sort of dwindle in influence, but there will always be hard core folks. that's the importance of doj's take. that's the great importance of some of these lawsuits that are aimed at money and sort of bankrupting them, just weakening them. there's really i think no end game that they just disappear. >> the fascist playbook of undermining democracy in a way that then ends democracy, where you have no more elections. what happened in germany in 1936, 1939, that's what's so grim and scary about this. i don't think it's because they think, oh, let's do this because we know we're going to win fair elections. they know they won't. >> what is the threat again? >> quote, we are a real threat to those who have been selecting those in power. >> some sick you know what. >> sound like voters.

>> they think their elections aren't fair either, but from the other side. >> except the ones that elect republicans. thank you for being here. vaughn, harry and rick, thank you for spending time with us today. another maga republican last night made it to the general election race in the november midterms. how democrats can try to play that to their advantage. we'll turn to politics after a quick break. was a great decis. like when i decided to host family movie nights. miracle-ear made it easy. i just booked an appointment and a certified hearing care professional evaluated my hearing loss and helped me find the right device calibrated to my unique hearing needs. now i enjoy every moment. the quiet ones and the loud ones. make a sound decision. call 1-800 miracle now, and book your free hearing evaluation. ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ when it comes to giving your kitchen a fresh spin,

♪ ♪ with wayfair it's easy. so you can get an upgrade. change your scenery. and make it shine. so no matter what project your tackling, from refresh to remodel, wayfair's got everything you need to give your home a fresh spin. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ want a permanent solution to homelessness? you won't get it with prop 27.

it was written and funded by out-of-state corporations to permanently maximize profits, not homeless funding. 90% of the profits go to out-of-state corporations permanently. only pennies on the dollar for the homeless permanently. and with loopholes, the homeless get even less permanently. prop 27. they didn't write it for the homeless. they wrote it for themselves. i signed a letter with 120 other generals and admirals

saying trump won the election and, damn it, i stand by it. fix the unconstitutionality of voting machines, fix ids, fix college students who don't live here from voting, fix balloting. it's out of control, the expansion through covid is unconstitutional and needs to be rolled back. >> hi again everyone. 5:00 in new york. that is who the republicans in new hampshire just chose, selected from a menu to be their nominee for u.s. senate. don bolduc is a political outsider, army veteran who despite receiving trump's endorsement, he enthusiastically embraced the big lie. bolduc known for his 2020 election conspiracy theories

will face democratic maggie hasan in november. bolduc is yet another example of republicans putting forward ultra extreme candidates it could mean good news for democrats in the general elections. politico reports this, quote, even before bolduc's victory, dr. oz was floundering in pennsylvania. blake masters is underperforming in arizona. republicans in georgia and ohio are mired in competitive races. bolduc appears to have equal difficulties appealing to a general election audience. a retired brigadier general, he amplified trump's false claims about the 2020 election, called the state's popular republican governor chris sununu a, quote, chinese communist sympathizer and called for the u.s. military to get in there on the ground in ukraine. two other trump loyalists were victorious in new hampshire last night, robert burns and karoline leavitt won their house races.

last night's elections capped off primary season, and in their nominations republicans unambiguously show us who they are again and again. take a look at the results of a brookings institute report which we must note was completed before last night's primaries. researchers found 41% of republican candidates approvingly mentioned ex-president donald trump, maga or america first or had a trump endorsement or photo on their websites. 59% of republicans had none of those, but such candidates prevailed only 30% of the time. the republicans cementing themselves as the maga election deniers and conspiracy theorists is where we begin with cornell becher who is here, democratic pollster and president of brilliant corners research, also an msnbc political analyst. also joining us, matt dowd, political strategist as well as msnbc political analyst.

amanda carpenter is back with us, columnist for the bulwark and eddie claude from african american studies at princeton university as well as msnbc political analyst. matt dowd, i instantly thought and i'm sure you and cornell did, too, of your conversations in new hampshire for your reporting assignment. i wonder what you made of last night's results. >> i'm glad you mentioned that. when we talk to voters and talk to the republican secretary of state up there who has had the deal with this election conspiracy, election denial stuff up there, new hampshire has never had to deal with. there's never been a question about whether or not elections with safe and secure. it's never been a problem, but this whole virus that donald trump started, denying the election results has seeped everywhere, not just in the key states of michigan and georgia and arizona, but now it's come to fruition in new hampshire.

look what the guy said about the popular incumbent republican governor there who now is in a difficult position about what does he do in this race where he has a republican nominee who can't stand him and is an election denier against an incumbent democratic senator. to me it's another sign across the country where this has solidified the republican base, this sort of anti democratic election denial is solidified in the republican base. the exception, the exception to the rule is republicans who accept election results. that's the exception to the rule. 90 to 95% of the candidates in the key states where there were competitive races between a mainstream republican and election denier, the election denier won the republican primary. that's the problem. >> amanda carpenter, i spoke to a former house republican today and he said the problem for the country is democrats can't make the hard pivot of talking about republicans as what they are, and that is the gravest threat

to our country that exists right now. it is the language that is required based on the republican's own words and conduct. that guy said he's going to deal with the unconstitutionality of voting. what does that mean in a democracy? i wonder what your political advice is for democrats to get on the offense on this? >> well, i do think joe biden is on the right track and sort of charting this course to separate typical republicans from maga republicans which means taking extremist position, not only on election denial but abortion as well. that is a good start. but i think people do need to speak frankly to republican voters and say this idea that you hear from people like mitch mcconnell that these are just a few one-off candidates of poor quality and somehow these are the outliers, that is just not

true. that is not true. they are serious candidates at this point. they are the republican nominees in major races in major swing states. so there has to be a value proposition to these republican voters in saying, you know what? we may disagree on issues. as a top-tiered voting issue, do we agree we should run free and fair elections and when you vote, your vote is accounted fairly. no matter what the election result is, i will stand with you on that value. i can tell you those republicans over there won't. you have to find a way to invite them into the process rather than campaigning against them and making those voters the enemy when it's really these candidates on the ballot standing in the way of everyone. >> cornell, i always wonder -- voters are really smart, viewers and voters are really smart. they understand the nuances of what's going on, and that is despite having other concerns. i don't presume everybody follows every whiff and blow of

everything that happens in every state's primary. in their own words, republicans are for state-mandated pregnancy for 10-year-olds. republicans have moved beyond maga. donald trump is wearing qanon pins. how do you take this message to the whole country this is not who you are? if you're a republican and hate my position on taxes, stay with me for two years. in two years you can go back. this is some sick stuff. you don't want any part of this. >> it's funny what's happened over the last several cycles here. i remember back when you were working at the white house, our polling showed that republicans had a couple of really big advantages, one of those key advantages is the idea that we represent your values. that's something democrats struggled with mightily for several elections and republicans had key advantage with middle america's idea that

republicans represent my values. that has been eroded away and that's part of the brand problem for republicans, that they clearly don't represent the values of americans. in fact, they're outside very much the value of mainstream america. quite frankly, they're at war with the values of mainstream america. but i also do think democrats are beginning to lean into this a little bit more. i think you've heard the president talk about it. you've heard the vice president actually talk about it as well. i think they begin to lean into this ideal that this election is, quite frankly, about saving our democracy. also, and i think this is important, if you look at the segment you just showed us going into this, it is that, quite frankly, donald trump is on the ballot again. when you look at all the candidates that actually have taken up the big lie and

promoting him and putting him front and center, democrats have not had to nationalize this election. republicans have done it for us. it's something we've talked about time and time again. republicans have done a very good job of nationalizing this election and making this election about donald trump and the relitigation of 2020. if you're mitch mcconnell, you've got to be going nuts at this idea that they've nationalized this election around donald trump again as opposed to nationalizing this election around economic issues. >> you can't have a thriving economy in an unstable democracy. the reason economic instability is an issue is because republicans are destabilizing our country and our democracy, and republicans do that by not allowing the vote of the people to be the final answer after a democracy. having nine days where our election wasn't decided because trump was refusing to accept the results and then refusing to concede, that is the most economically destabilizing thing that can happen to a country,

and there's one party that does it, and they do it at every level. that's the republicans. >> absolutely. i was thinking about the answers, nicole, to your question. we're right to kind of track the political issues, but what if republican -- the idea of being republican cuts deeper than political choices? the data shows our political identities are bound up with who we take ourselves to be. it's a real deep kpis is tenl question or issue when one says i am a republican. it goes beyond simply i believe this, that and the other. it goes to the core and heart of who i am. you have maga republicans and you can make that distinction based on policy differences and the like, but what does it mean to appeal to someone who thinks of their political identity as a republican as central to their self understanding. it's going to be a hard nut to crack for democrats in my view

when we know political identities track alongside this really hard understanding of who i take myself to be, if that makes sense. >> i understand what you're saying, but i think the value argument has to be countered, eddie, and i think the argument is whatever your conservative ideal is -- and let's put some of them out there. if you believe in the second amendment, republicans will pervert it and take it away by being so bat bleep crazy that they never win another election. if you believe in a vibrant economy, republicans threaten it by decimating the peaceful transfer of power. you think foreign companies want to invest in a country where the election goes on and on and on? that's the most destabilizing thing the world over. why not make -- my god, we live in a country now where a 10-year-old rape victim who crosses state lines, the doctors that take care of her become

persecuted and hunted because of republican policies and disinformation. >> absolutely. you've got to make that argument. we also have to understand that there's a hierarchy of values, that one may very well be committed to all the things you just laid out, but one may also be committed to the idea that my sense of being an american is under threat, that there are demographic and culture shifts that threaten who i take myself to be as an american, that threaten this country. that value over rides all the other values. we have to begin -- i think you're absolutely right. we have to hit it right where you say we should. i think we need to understand we're not just about political choices. it cuts to this existential question of who these people take themselves to be. >> you're introducing in an elegant way race. i want to put this on the table more overtly here. what that new hampshire candidate is saying, don bolduc,

one of the things he takes after is expanded access to voting, ushered in by the pandemic. what he really means is we're going to shrink the number of people who can vote. it seems that -- eddie you're so good at pushing the conversations to where they're really profound, but what it seems like this assault on election is the assault on the right and the access to vote. do you see it that way? >> absolutely. when they said stop the steal, they were talking about atlanta, philadelphia, milwaukee. hmm, what's similar about all these things? they weren't talking about the places where they won. even in arizona when we think about what happened in arizona, the organizing of latino, latinx and native peoples. the data is clear about this. i'm not just beating the race horse. the data is clear about this that there's this sense that

among this particular electorate that the cultural and demographic shifts in the country are preeminent. it presents a threat. we have to acknowledge that and hit it and hit it directly, it seems to me, nicolle, just like you just did. >> amanda, i cut you off. go ahead. >> he made me think of a point i've been thinking about a lot and that is the value proposition that is up for grabs among persuadable republicans, the highest value of all, the freedom, the freedom to have your vote count. the freedom to be heard, the freedom to love who you want to love, to do business if you want to do business. i don't view this growing trend happening in conservative circles where they look at how they're losing representation on a national level and are thinking of exceedingly clever ways to obtain and extract control. this is a lot of what ron desantis is exploring with his governmental powers in florida. this is a lot of what you see in this national populous

conservative movement happening. to me that leaves a lot of good high moral ground for democrats to say no, no, this isn't what we're about. we're for the freedom to live differently. for the freedom to belong in society. those are uniting factors. those are the values of love. that is really what it should get to be if you believe in the american system rather than just believing in finding a way to get what you want above all else. >> matt dowd, this is the language you've been speaking since the beginning. go ahead. >> yeah. and i was just thinking as we were having this conversation, when you and i would sit around the table in 2004, i remember this distinctly. i would say let the democrats talk as much as they want about the issues. if we win the values, we win the election. elections fundamentally are always about a decision about values. what happens is, and this is my hope for democrats because i think our democracy is in peril

if the democrats don't succeed is democrats don't drift back into a series of issues they think they have to do in the next 55 days. this is probably the most fundamental value debate and proposition that needs to take place in our lifetime. what is more fundamental value than our constitutional democracy and what, as you lay out, delivers in a democracy. we wouldn't have social security but for our constitutional democracy. we wouldn't have medicare but for our constitutional democracy. we wouldn't have raises of minimum raises in this country. we wouldn't have unions if it wasn't for a constitutional democracy in our country. i think democrats have to step up in a big way, let go of their traditional thing they do which is go and list out nine different issues and where they stand on the issues and basically face the american public. they don't need to do this with their base because i think the democratic base understands this. but those people of good conscience and good culture in

new hampshire, michigan, arizona, who are sitting there not completely understanding, democrats need to tell them this is what's on the line. if you're an american citizen of this country and the most important value of an american citizen of this country is our constitutional democracy and the freedom and liberty of people to participate in a way and to empower themselves to achieve what they want in that system, that's what's fundamentally at stake. all these other issues you care about, yes, they're important. but if you don't have a constitutional democracy and the value upon which that resides, you're going to lose all those things. to me this is a great huge wide opening that i think, as i think amanda said joe biden has stepped into, i think other democrats, better when cornell and i and you were talking about this three months ago have stepped into. but they ought to welcome this debate about what does it fundamentally mean to be an american in a constitutional democracy and lay it on the

line. >> cornell, you're the only person that actually does this, advises democratic candidates. can they do this? will they do this? >> it's funny because, if you ask me what's the definition of a liberal or a progressive, i would tell you that is someone who thinks that most people see the world through the lens of an economic or pocketbook transaction. that's the real challenge to matt's point. we talked about how republicans had this values advantage and you all would lean into the values advantage and make it about broader values. democrats almost instinctually want to make everything about an economic or pocketbook transaction. nicolle, i remember in 2009 and 2010 after we elected barack obama president, we had people rising up and rise of the tea party and they were saying we have to take our country back.

all my progressive friends, oh, it's the economic angst, we have to figure out their economic angst. i said, no, i think perhaps it's about race or tribalism. i even wrote a book about it and they attacked me, the progressives attacked me. democrats are getting there on this value set but they do -- again, leadership from the president and the vice president in this space, but to what you and matt know very well, this is not a space that democrats have ever been necessarily comfortable with. democrats always try to shy away from the value conversation, although right now i would argue that democrats go around the country and say i will put my values out on the line and in competition with republican values right now, and i think that's a contrast that would absolutely win. >> i need to go to a break, but the last point, the two democrats that did put the values of hope and change in

saving the soul of our nation on the line prevailed in big whopping decisive national presidential victories. we're going to keep this going. everyone sticks around. when we come back, how republicans continue to shoot themselves in the foot on an issue that may be animating voters more than anything else and how they may be the most vulnerable. ukraine's president zelenskyy makes a dramatic visit to a town newly reclaimed by his military forces. the press forward with the impressive offensive that has russia literally running. queen elizabeth lies at westminster where she'll lie in state for the next four days. the sights and sounds on an emotional day in england. deadline white house continues after a quick break. please stay with us. small prices for big dreams.

♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. you might take something for your heart... your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something

for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

what does it tell you that -- >> you see in august senator graham saying this should be a state issue, boom, boom, everybody saying it should be a state issue, and then probably at the insistence of the maga grassroots coming out and saying there should be a federal ban. you'd have to ask the republicans as to why they poured cold water on it. they know they're digging a hole and they just keep digging it. i think what you're seeing there is a conflict within the republican party. there are those in the party that think light begins at the

candlelight dinner the night before. >> that is certainly the perception among voters it would appear. a fiery answer from house speaker nancy pelosi when asked about the muted and discord can't responses to senator lindsey graham's proposed national abortion ban at 15 weeks from people in his own party, including mitch mcconnell. graham's ban forcing many republicans to face an issue they're trying to run not tiptoe away from as the midterms approach, one that has energized many democratic voters and more problematic with them, put them at odds with big swaths of their own base. the numbers were so obvious, and i stink at plagt. 67% of americans want to roll up the way it was. the republican bans going on in states that had the trigger laws, some of them eliminate exceptions for rape, 83% of americans oppose that. some of them even make it very dangerous for a woman with sepsis in need of an emergency

miscarriage or losing a pregnancy to have health care. they ban that care. 93% of americans oppose those bans. what are they doing? >> i guess the conventional wisdom is that lindsey graham stepped in it by trying to provide an answer to the question. the reality is republicans got what they wanted by overturning roe v. wade. but now what? really nobody has any answers. lindsey graham was probably not the best person to step up and try to solve this question, a married guy who i think is 67 years old, probably mott the person that really understands it. i saw a quote from him where he said he sort of just picked 15 weeks. even though lindsey graham was probably wrong here, there needs to be resolution on the issue. running away from it is not going to help the republicans' predicament anymore. i don't view hard right wing republicans campaigning on absolutely no exceptions. as much as mcconnell would want

this to be a referendum on joe biden regarding inflation and crime, that's not what voters are talking about on the ground. i suggest that people who have a problem with lindsey graham's solution on the issue go out and talk to voters and propose a different one. >> here is what's happening on the ground. west virginia's republican legislature made west virginia the second state to pass the ban since supreme court overturned roe v. wade. rape and incest victims could obtain abortions up to eight weeks of pregnancy but would be required to report to law enforcement officers. victims who are younger than 18 would have to wait to 14 weeks of pregnancy to obtain the procedure. the vast majority of rape victims do not go to law enforcement and the vast majority of rape victims who become pregnant do not know they're pregnant at eight weeks. this actually doesn't address any of the health care needs of rape victims, but that's par for the course for the republicans. this is how lindsey graham

answered an even more painful question from a voter. >> what would you say to somebody like me who found out that their son -- >> here is what i would say. the world pretty much as spoken on this issue. as to your particular case, there will be exceptions for life of the mother and rape and incest. >> matt dowd, the problem -- i apologize in advance for coming to you, matt dowd. this is not about the life of the mother but the quality of life of her child.

the woman is asking what about me? you would be robbing that choice from those women when you say to someone like me. lindsey graham says here is what i would say, the world pretty much as spoken on this issue. no it hasn't. five white guys and one black judge ruled from the bench, overturned roe v. wade in extreme opposition to the vast majority of americans and vast majority of american women. >> when i was listening to that, i don't know what world he's talking about that has spoken on this. every modern democracy in the world has a is support for a woman's right to choose. two-thirds of the voters, three-quarters of the voters in america have tried to speak on this, though that was taken away by an elected court, have said we're there on this issue. one of the things, especially for people -- i know everyone has either known someone or been involved -- this choice is exceedingly difficult. having been involved in a choice where you have to make a choice at the period of time in that --

in being a person of faith, being what i feel is a deep person of faith, this is a conversation that ultimately people want to have between their doctor and their minister and their priest, not some state legislature from some rural county in the middle of nowhere who the republicans want in the room on this. i will harken this back -- this is why i think this is so horrible. i think lindsey graham committed the greatest own goal in the history of politics in the last 20 years, wading into an issue that the democrats have a huge advantage on. lindsey graham would be like the miami dolphins saying they want to pay the buffalo bills in the snow. when he waeds in on this issue and does what he does, that's what he's doing on this issue. one thing to remind folks of in the course of this is roe v. wade had a series of restrictions. it wasn't unrestricted access to abortion. it was never unrestricted access

to abortion. roe v. wade, if it was the law of the land today, has a series of restrictions, a series of things you have to go through at different points in time in the pregnancy to make those decisions in concert with your doctor and, if you want to, your minister or priest in the course of this. to me this issue is going back to something amanda said earlier, this issue is all about freedom, religious freedom to make the choice yourself in concert with your minister. the medical freedom to make this choice yourself in concert with your doctor. this is all about a fundamental freedom that americans know exists. nobody wants to debate whether or not some individual should have this or not have this. it should be up to that person's choice, as we say, with whoever they want in that room in the course of this time. that's why this is struck. lindsey graham -- i know mitch mcconnell is back there thinking what on earth are you doing. we want to talk about inflation, now you're going to wade in and talk about this choice issue

which the democrats have a huge advantage on. again, greatest own goal in the history of politics that i've seen. >> amanda i think alluded to this and john heilemann made this point yesterday. what's happening on the right, the state ban, some are so restrictive and abhorrent, and after what happened in kansas, there are some thinking what lindsey graham was doing was trying to put a more palatable national abortion ban on the table. i agree it was a massive failure. in some ways it's a window into how extreme and terrified republicans are about what's happening in the states. when they saw kansas, and the way the counties broke down in kansas, and where kansas voters stand on the elimination of choice, choice wasn't a pro abortion -- we had a choice where the pro-life community could present those options to women and ministers and families, and women had health care choices if that wasn't the way they wanted to go. what the supreme court has done -- and i think i -- i won't

speak for anyone else, i don't do a good enough job probing. i really want to understand this in the next 60 days. the united states supreme court has gone from being a political mover for republicans to political dead weight for the right. they don't know what to do. talk about the dog catching the car. it's almost like the dog caught the car, got inside and had an accident. this is a political mess for the republicans. >> you know, i've not had often an opportunity to say this in history, nicolle. republicans are in complete disarray. it's an absolute mess. if you look at the way they've been fumbling this and the opportunity again, unforced error, opportunity again that lindsey graham gave democrats yesterday, i was at the inflation reduction act event at the white house yesterday, and

majority leader schumer had this to say which i think is a smart messaging going into the midterm. he said while republicans are over there right now trying to ban abortion nationally, we are focused and working on bringing down costs and creating jobs. i thought, my god, what a gift of sort of contrast for democrats going into the fall. by the way, i think you'll hear that refrain time and time again. i think they're in absolute disarray over this and they don't know whether to back away or embrace it. a lot of republicans are now removing any sort of conversation or any of their past quotes or statements on abortion. guess what republicans? it's too late. we have a great deal of opposition research that we're rolling out right now, you'll

see in advertising about some of the incredible extremist things they've said about taking away a woman's right to choose and americans and their freedom to do so. this has put them in disarray in a way that i've never seen republicans in this sort of disarray. >> blake masters is his name. this isn't 198. you don't need an oppo guy to find out what's on his website. it was literally on his campaign website three weeks ago. i'm sure screen shots exist. it's been scrubbed, deleted. it's nuts. cornell belcher, matt dowd, amanda carpenter, eddie glaude, thank you for a deep political conversation. i'm grateful to all of you. when we come back, we shift gears as ukraine's lightning fast offensive pushes forward.

president zelenskyy makes a surprise visit to a key town taken back from russians. retired army colonel vindman will tell us where they go from here after a quick break. stick around. be known. uh, how come we don't call ourselves bikers anymore? i mean, "riders" is cool, but "bikers"...is really cool. -seriously? -denied. can we go back to meeting at the rec center? the commute here is brutal. denied. how do we feel about getting a quote to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? should flo stop asking the same question every time? -approved! -[ altered voice ] denied! [ normal voice ] whoa. (vo) at viking, we are proud to have been named the world's number one for both rivers and oceansce ] denied! by travel and leisure, as well as condé nast traveler. but it is now time for us to work even harder, searching for meaningful experiences and new adventures for you to embark upon. they say when you reach the top, there's only one way to go.

we say, that way is onwards. viking. exploring the world in comfort. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

what's it going to take for the world to reach net-zero emissions? it's going to take investing in some things you've heard of and some you'd never expect. it's going to take funding innovation in renewable energy, helping reduce carbon footprints, and big bets on environmentally conscious construction. citi has committed 1 trillion dollars in sustainable financing to help build a better future. because to reach net zero, it's going to take everything. ♪ ♪ the choice between prop 26 and 27? let's get real. prop, 26 means no money to fix homelessness, no enforcement oversight and no support for disadvantaged tribes. yikes! prop 27 generates hundreds of millions towards priorities like new housing units in all 58 counties. 27 supports non-gaming tribes and includes strict audits

that ensure funds go directly to people off the streets and into there's only one choice. yes on 27.

we've kwachd it here together, 202 days of it, of war, of carnage, savagery, butchery on the part of russia. a mother in kharkiv welcoming her son back home after six months of service during the russian occupation. she's saying i knew you would return here. with any luck, this will not be the last such instance of reunification as ukraine's counteroffensive surges forward. leaders there insist they've retaken some 3,000 square miles of their territory, liberating 150,000 people. russian forces meanwhile set back on their heels appear to be in the state of a frantic retreat running like mice, one ukrainian put it, caught so off guard that russians are often leaving behind equipment, ammunition, weapons, tanks. witnesses tell "the new york times" this: russian troops are increasingly ill disciplined,

unpredictable, anxious and simply scared, dressing as civilians to escape or stealing bicycles to move faster. in their wake a full picture of the horrors inflicked on innocent ukrainians. investigators are recovering bodies, people shot in the head, evidence of torture. president volodymyr zelenskyy in the retaken city of izyum thanked ukrainian soldiers and watched as the flag was raised from the burned-out city hall building. it is progress. the war is far from over. an expert joins us now, retired vin man. tell us where you are, what you're down and what you're seeing. >> sure, first of all, thank you for having me. i'm actually in kyiv tonight. i was in car conservative in the newly liberated areas this morning and i've covered

something like 850 road miles in the last 36 hours. so crisscrossing the country. i can tell you that those areas are, in fact, newly liberated. the front line has moved somewhere about 70 kilometers, and the offensive is still going strong in the north. russians are on the back foot. the ukrainians have captured the initiative. >> so much i want to ask you. i want to know two things. one, how did the ukrainians have so much military success in such a short period of time, and what do you make of the russians being described by all sorts of new sources as running? >> well, they are, in fact, running. they're still trying to establish a defensive line. they have not been able to

accomplish that, and the ukrainians were masterful in military deception, sell graphing for quite some time that their defensive would be down south. in the meanwhile they've been up north and they were able to establish local superiority against the russians in personnel through fairly thin lines and make really quick progress up to a natural reservoir, a barrier about 50 kilometers past where they started, they've done a masterful job of really maneuver in the open, and they captured, as you stated, a lot of russian equipment, dozens of tanks, multiple launch rocket systems, artillery pieces. they've broken through some really strong or storied russian

forces. they're continuing their attack and they're doing quite well in the south as well. >> one of the folks like yourself who knows this country and knows its military capabilities is ambassador bill taylor. i remember in the earliest days of the war, he said no one should underestimate ukraine's military. they are the best trained in europe right now because they've been at war. obviously the united states and western europe has sent massive amounts of military supplies. but i wonder if you can speak to sort of the third piece of the ukrainian arsenal, something that journalists and only people who have been there and sort of understand it have spoken to, and that's the character of the ukrainian people that extends beyond the military. they know what they're fighting for, and how that contrasts with the russian military mindset. >> sure. well, the ukrainians are defending their homeland. they are resolute.

they're determined. they will fight for their families. they'll fight for their land, and the russians are the attackers. it's really in some ways odd that the russians who are really close neighbors completely missed the nature of the fight here, and that the ukrainians whose grandfathers in living memory fought so hard in world war ii and died in large numbers in world war ii, to think they would give up at the beginning of the conflict was a huge mistake, a huge assumption that blew back on putin and the russian forces, and the ukrainians have shown great heart, really a demonstration that superior equipment does not overcome superior motivation and

superior training and, frankly, great flexibility and ability to master equipment like the himars, highly sophisticated weapon system. the ukrainians have fully capable of mastering weapons systems including more longer-range weapon systems, attack aviation and things that frankly we've withheld thinking that they either could not withstand the russians, that they would fold, they didn't have defensive power. all these assumptions we made about ukrainians' fighting power have fallen, and we should provide them all the weapons they need, and this is not a short conflict. the russians are going to continue to fight. they're on their back foot. they've lost the initiative, but they're going to continue to fight in the short-term. the only way we end this conflict is by making sure that the ukrainians are fully

equipped. >> retired u.s. army colonel vindman, thank you for spending time with us today from kyiv. we or grateful. >> thank you, nicolle. shifting gears for us, it's been an extremely emotional day all across the uk where tonight the body of queen elizabeth is lying in state at westminster. we will bring you all of the day's historic events and images after a quick break. such tree-mendous views. i'm at a moss for words.

when a cough tries to steal dad's punchlines, he takes robitussin naturals powered by 100% drug-free ingredients. are you gonna leaf me hanging? soothe your cough naturally. a monster was attacking but the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose. thinkorswim® by td ameritrade is more than a trading platform. it's an entire trading experience. that pushes you to be even better. and just might change how you trade—forever. because once you experience thinkorswim® by td ameritrade ♪♪♪ there's no going back. i'm a performing artist. so a healthy diet is one of the most important things. i also feel the same way about my dog. we got her the farmer's dog sent in the mail.

it was all fresh. i want my dog to have a healthy and long life. the farmer's dog helps that out. see the benefits of fresh food at betterforthem.com research shows that people remember ads with young people having a good time. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a pool party. look what i brought! liberty mutual! they customize your home insurance... so you only pay for what you need! ♪young people having a good time with insurance.♪ ♪young people.♪ ♪good times.♪ . your mission: stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis and... take. it. on. with rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. it can stop irreversible joint damage.

and rinvoq can leave skin clear or almost clear in psa. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. ask your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. rinvoq. make it your mission. learn how abbvie could help you save on rinvoq. >> tech: at safelite, we take care of vehicles rinvoq. with the latest technology. we can replace your windshield ...and recalibrate your safety system. >> customer: and they recycled my old glass. >> tech: don't wait. schedule today. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

today, queen elizabeth ii left buckingham palace for the last time. her coffin making its way to the palace -- from the palace to westminster where she will lie in state. king charles iii walked behind the coffin joined by his siblings, prince william, newly named as the prince of wales walked behind him next to his brother prince harry. the coffin greeted by the or bishop of canterbury and remains there four days until the funeral at westminster abbey. the public will be allowed to pay their respects 24 hours a day until the morning of her funeral. very large crowds expected as the country continues to mourn the death of the queen. mourners have been warned about very long waits, possibly even overnight. they seem undeterred. we will be right back.

what do we want delivered every month? clumping litter? salmon pate? love that for me. just choose the frequency and ship it! i feel so accomplished. now you can pet me. great prices on everything pets want. chewy. we lost about everything trying to pay for prescriptions. we spent our whole pension but couldn't keep up. so my husband just stopped taking his medicine. and then he had a stroke. i can't get back what i lost, but thanks to aarp, a new law will protect seniors with a cap on their prescription costs. that could have changed everything for us. i'm just grateful that no one will have to face the terrible choices that we did some days, it felt like asthma was holding me back. but asthma has taken enough. so i go triple... with trelegy. with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler,... it's the only once-daily treatment for adults

that takes triple action against asthma symptoms. trelegy helps make breathing easier,... improves lung function,... and lasts for 24 hours. go triple... go trelegy. because asthma has taken enough. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler... for sudden breathing problems. trelegy contains a medicine that increases risk of hospitalizations and death from asthma problems when used alone. when this medicine is used with an inhaled corticosteroid,... like in trelegy,... there is not a significant increased risk of these events. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase risk of thrush and infections. get emergency care for serious allergic reactions. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. don't let asthma take another breath. go triple. go trelegy. ask your doctor about trelegy today.

♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things.

thinkorswim® by td ameritrade is more than a trading platform. it's an entire trading experience. that pushes you to be even better. and just might change how you trade—forever. because once you experience thinkorswim® by td ameritrade ♪♪♪ there's no going back. i'm saying to pie secret service detail, i'm driving home. >> that was president joe biden having a bit of fun this afternoon at the detroit auto show. it was a business trip, though. it was part of that bipartisan infrastructure bill recently passed. the president announced $900 million in new electric vehicle charging stations.

they will span 35 states, 53,000 miles of national highway. and they'll be installed by union workers. once complete the president says charging stations will be as easy to find as gas stations are now. quote, the great american road trip is going to be fully electrified. we will be right back.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ this... is a glimpse into the no-too-distant future of lincoln. ♪ ♪ it's what sanctuary could look like... feel like... sound like...

even smell like. more on that soon. ♪ ♪ the best part? the prequel is pretty sweet too. ♪ ♪

thank you so much for letting us in your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we're so grateful. "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. >> welcome to "the beat." we begin with another trump ally having his phone seized by the fbi. and it's someone you may have heard of, mike lindell. ceo of my pillow, but also the reason he's come up in these cases, a very well-known and rich public ally and supporter of donald trump including in the big lie, the lies about the election, the lies about its