and you u.s. senator and you never had to try to cross over into anything. >> don bullock is only running for points behind maggie hassan, so maybe carried a fake shield so maybe carried a fake shield who knows? it's a mad, mad world. thank you, chris. great show. >> you bet. >> and thank you all for joining us this hour. consider what happened officer the space of just three days in january of last year. three events on three consecutive days that continue to shape our politics right up until this very moment. on january 5th of last year in georgia, two rp senators ran off for these united states senate which handed control to the democrats. the next day, january 6th, we know what happened that day. and then the day after that, on january 7th, back in georgia, election systems in rural coffee

county were breeched by a team working on donald trump's bee half. they were led into the office by a trump supporting local official. they were there to look for evidence of election fraud. they made copies of every voting machine hardev drive and every ballot. you have to admit it is brazen move to go breaching election systems in support of his lies literally the day after the election lies sparked the violent assault. but there they were. doing justth that. obviously, we talk a lot p about january 6th. it is worth taking a moment to consider january 5th and january 7th as well. and it's no accident that both those ventsnt that book ended january 6th as big election victory for democrats and possibly criminal election system breach in support of donald trump's s election lies that both of those events happened in the state of

georgia. it's a microcosm of everything happening in o american politic. take that election data breech inha coffee county. that incident is part of the sprawling investigation being conducted by georgia's fulton county district attorney into election interference by trump and allies. and amongan all the investigatis currently being conducted into donald trump, many legal observers think the georgia investigation may constitute his biggest legal threat. after all, the election data breech captain a month's long push by trump and allies to overturn the win in georgia, a push that included the call to georgia's secretary of state. you no he that was the call in which trump spent an hour berating and threatening him to find enough votes for trump to win.tr trump tried to overturn the results in lots of states. but no mace got the attention and the pressure that georgia

did. georgia is at the center of all of that. georgia is also stenter of the new wave of voter suppression legislation across remember states since the 2020 he lction. georgia was the first state to enact sweeping restrictions in the wake of donald trump's loss. the just in case the subtext was lost on anyone, brian kemp signed a lou surrounded by a bunch of white guys in front of a painting of a plantation. the midterm are the first elections in which georgia voters are contending with those new burdensome rules. in this the mud terms, all eyes are on georgia because it could determine whichec party control the senate, again. he is defending the senate seat against walker. democrats have been booing the fact that he is such a blockbuster candidate and herschel walker is such a --

what is the diplomatic way to put this, such a disaster. it is a decent margin for a democrat in a state until recently was reliably red. but that same poll shows a tight erase for georgia grofrn. sitting republican governor brian kem subpoena at 50%. democrat stacy abrams is at 48%. a separate poll tout day shows stacy abrams ahead by one point. and that one is from a republican pollster. this is clearly a super close pe race. now might also be the race that is more of a bellwether for american politics. more of a reflection of where the country is at than just about any other race in the country. i mean for one thing, this is a rematch. stacy abrams came within hairs

of beating brian kemp four years ago. abrams said her loss was made possible byr kemp's voter suppression tactics in that role. but since then the peach state voted for a democrat for president and elected two democrat uk u.s. senators. was that a blip? or is georgia realigning itself politicallyig in a more deep-seated way. if it is realigning itself, that is in no small part to stacy abrams herself. her ground breaking blend of organizing and voter registration and outreach to often overlooked communities. a lot is bound up if stacy abram's blueprint really works. this afternoon i sat down with abrams to discuss the campaign

and voting rights, abortion, and a lot more. take a look. >> it's great to see you, as always. i guess, you know, i just want to start with the big picture. s as we sort of frame up what is happening in this country. georgia is so central to the american political landscape right now. you're out there campaigning with a very important part of the american electorate. awhat does it feel like on the ground. >> people are anxious. they also have a sense of urgency that o things have to change. they survived covid. they survived racial s violence. they survived economic down turn. they were not expecting that. but they also have to grapple with government that doesn't them.o see or care about their future. and when we're out on the ground whether it's in atlanta or out in southwest georgia or northeast georgia, i hear the samea, conversations. how do you get us back to

safety? how do youba ensure justice? how do we have economic opportunity that is real? people want more. they need to believe they deserve more and can have more.h >> the polls have you tightening. the tolls are tightening have you getting closer to brian kemp. there's been some analysis about the strategy you're pursuing which gets to this age-old conundrum. do you try to peel off voters from the center or do you try to energize the base? a lot of the writing has compared your campaign to that of senator warknock.en he seems to be approaching moderates in particular, trying to peel off maybe some moderate republicans. and they say your campaign is focused on turning out a new selection of voters.

>> one of the pieces of my approach to politics that seems to confound people is i treat all voters as persuasion voters. i do not take for granted that anyone who shares my values will necessarily choose to vote. you're persuading people to come to youad for once. my approach is how do we share values? how do we persuade people to share the values or to participate in the election? those are both very important choices. that is not baus voting if you don't participate in the pa elections. you're not a basee voter unles you actually vote. so we see those communities as

persuasion voters as important as moderate republicans, as important as independents. in jornlgs george if you mach less than $9, they deny you access to health care.ac i'll get that you to. using your own money. the money that georgians already paid into the system. i'm in a posture where i'm talking about statehe level isss with a very large state that has very different dynamics depending on where you live. so my responsibility at the state level is to be as granular as possible with our policy messages. there is no conflict.

both of us want every voter we can. we want every voter to see themselves in this race as a part of how we make this decision. >> in particular in the state ol georgia when you talk about getting every voter, voters that don't traditionally go to the polls. we're talking young voters, voters of color.f you talk about -- and franchising the voters in aan w. how do you do that in this political landscape which so much seems broken? what is the level of concern. just the action of voting itself which in georgia is under threat? >> georgia unfortunately remains ground zero for voter suppression. despite this information and i wouldde say outright disinformation delivered often by our top two leaders by the governor and by secretary of state, the law they passed in 2021 was not in response to any issues of voter security. it was entirely driven as the governor said by his frustration with the results. the wrong people voted in his estimation. and so our responsibility is,

one, let the wrong people know, you were eoright. you were right to show up. you should show up again. now he did not say wrong people. i'm paraphrasing his behavior -- or his language. but he did say he was frustrated by the results. if you look at who led to the ed results, it was largely young people, people of color, rural voters who hadco not participat. those are the voters we are trying to galvanize. we also have to guide them througho the new mind fields o voter f suppression. under the governor, they rn outsourced voter challenges. what he did as a governor purging more than 1.4 million people, now you have unlimb you itted imchallenges. any person can come and challenge thousands of voters. we know 26,000 challenges have been adjudicated. another 37,000 pending in -- in that county alone. that is deeply problematic. senior citizens knew the absentee ballot was going to show up like clockwork, its no the showing upck because they changed the laws.

you won't get the ballot unless you apply for it. it is not an easy to use application. the same thing isy true for th disabled community. we're doing our best to help people navigate the minefield and why it's worth trying. >> you are worried? are you worried about the midterm election? >> i'm worried about the access to vote in georgia. with he know there are roadblocks put in place intentionally designed to block access. we know that the state has underfunded, once again, our local elections officials. we know the challenges coming do not come with additional money. it'sdi an unfunded mandate. every single blockade that's opinion but up, our responsibility is to acknowledge it, to val beganize around it and to road map our way through it. that's what we can do.we >> when you think about the fact that you are within -- i mean

you have a very strong shot of becoming the governor of the state of georgia. a bhak woman in the top of the state house running the snat. that special election happened on january 5th and we know what happened in january 6th. there was a movement forward to a more inclusive society or very violent pull backwards. and when you think about the stakes, when you think about what you all -- what you represent in this bid for the governorship, i mean, quha is the lesson we should take away? >> georgia is a microcosm what is playing out across this country. what happened in kansas isos no ansa anomaly. what happened in alaska is not an aberration. but that what can happen both in georgia on january 5th and in d.c. on january 6th are also very much a part of our current

politics. what does it look like to have a leader that believes in us having access to opportunity? is campaigned across the state. i was in north georgia which is largely white and rural. one reporter said why are you here? this is a place that is very red.ry counties don't vote. peopleun do. my responsibility is to meet people where r they are. my plan is a -- is a $5 billion surplus. i don't say usebi it only to satisfy this political itend. let's invest in etd indication. that liftsve all of our childre. let's invest in higher education. let's invest in our small businesses because they're 99% of the t businesses and 43% of e jobs. but a very small fraction of the investment that we ofmake. let's invest in medicaid expansion to save hospitals,

lives, create jobs. the for me, the conversation has to be a broader one.br the way we get to that binary die namic that we saw between the if you haveth and sixth is by ignoring the reality of both. but ignore more importantly the u tult of what wee accomplishe in georgia on the fifth. by electing john and engaging people who were told they would never participate in a special election runup for the u.s. senate, we demonstrated there are voice that's long been ignored that canon have volume d have effect. and my campaign, my mission is to make m certain that those voices don't get heard every two or four years and then dissipate. but there is a constant sea of volume and engagement. someone that lived many lives that i'm trying to help folks with, i want them to know that i'm going to behe there every s of the way. andep that we can do it without raising taxes. >> drop the mike. stacey abrams, democratic candidate for the governor of

georgia, the peach state, thank you for everything. thank you for coming on. >> alex, thank you for having me. >> great to see you. >> just ahead in, one final part of that interview with stacey abrams, we discussed how her personal stance on abortion rights evolved over her career and how she hopes others making that same journey will make their voicesam heard in novembe. and the january 6th committee gets its hands on thousands -- thousands of new texts from secret service agents including ones from that fateful day. the that is next. stay with us. the that is next stay with us

i spoke early we are stacy abrams about how georgia voters can be motivate bid attempts to limit voting rights. we also discuss how the same can be true this summer's supreme court decision overturning roe v. wade. abrams talked about how her own thinking evolved over time on the issue of reproductive choice. >> certainly telling people they can't vote is one way to galvanize them, right? the other is to hand down a supreme court decision that seems wholly at odds with where the public is at. i'm talking about the dobbs decision. they have information out this month. more than 60% of mail in ballots in the state of georgia.

more than 60% of the requests are from women, black women, roughly equal the requests of white men which is not traditionally how it goes in the midterm election. let's talk about abortion. there was a really interesting "new york times" profile about you on the subject of abortion. you did not start out your life as a pro-choice person. >> i did not. >> i'm not telling you something -- you know this. but for those that don't, i think the evolution is unique. explain how you came to the position which you now hold which is a proponent of choice. >> i grew up in the deep south, mississippi. my parents became ministers when i was in high school. i come from a very religious family. and there was never a conversation about where we should stand. but it was endemic to the communities i was a part of that abortion was wrong. and it was when i went to college, when i started meeting people who had my same faith

tradition but had a different perspective that i really started challenging my own beliefs. it didn't happen overnight. it helped me reconsider conversations i had with a teenager with a friend grappling with the decision to have an abortion. i didn't really understand what she needed from me. in retrospect, i'm deeply saddened i wasn't there for her. but what i know and learned over time is even if my personal belief systems, i would not make that choice. my responsibility both as a citizen when i'm voting and as a legislator when i'm making decisions is that that choice belongs to a woman. it is a medical decision. it is the only medical decision that politics decided that it should interfere with. and that to me is untenable. and so when i was getting ready to stand for office, i already shifted to being pro-choice. i made myself write an essay to myself about my posture. i'm deeply nerdy in that way. in my essay -- >> you were telling yourself this person is pro-choice.

>> how would you think about -- it wasn't about just abortion. how you would make decisions? so you would run for office. you get these different applications and endorsement requests. before i filled them out, i said let's think through where you stand on issues. abortion is top of mind for me. it's wrong for a state to impose political values on a woman's choice. >> it's odd that you had that conversation with yourself but also with voters. when you talk about rural voters, voters of color, looking at abortion as kind of this black and white issue that doesn't involve any evolution, do you feel like telling your own personal story is useful to telling voters that are themselves coming to -- having an evolution on abortion? >> absolutely. >> so often it is treated as a

binary. you're wright or wrong. you can have personal beliefs. but can you still vote for people who can create opportunities for others to have their bheefz. i'm here to say it's okay for you to have these conversations. it's okay to have the have the questions and vote in a way that says you may not have settled where you are but you know it's wrong to tell others that where they are is not appropriate. >> with primary season complete, democrats are trying to figure out what will inspire all eligible voters to head to the polls this november. john favro joins me to discuss what he learned while talking to voters across this country. hint, it is not what you expect

think. stay with us. , it is not what y think. stay with us

do you believe that we can determine who won the 2020 presidential election? >> i'm the only candidates in this race to say that joe biden legitimately did not win 81 million votes in the 2020 election. >> that was caroline levit.

she won the republican primary for new hampshire's first congressional district. at 25 years old, he is only the second member of gen-z to ever one a house primary and first republican member of that generation to do so. in addition to believing that the 2020 election was stolen, she wants stricter abortion laws. she wants to privatise social security. she wants to kill obama care and she believes that climate change is a manufactured crisis by the democrat party to fright enthe american people into socialism. her race is november is considered a tossup. so she very well may be headed to washington come december. and in senate primary, the general came out ahead. not only does general think that the 2020 election is stolen, not only has he expressed support for the january 6 nl rioters, but when he was asked late last year if he as a general thinks there is any role for the military to play if another election as he sees it is

stolen, general replied, i think there is always a role for the military to play if there is a threat to our existence of our government and constitution and the oath we take. absolutely. he'll run against democrat maggie hassan in november. she lost last general election by 1,000 votes. the most recent polls this summer had her four points ahead of the general that, race may be a little too close for comfort. now we can spend all night reading the tea leaves about what the primaries mean for november and for the state of the country. but here's the thing. a total of 92,000 people voted last night's democratic senate primary in new hampshire. when you have a fringe candidate running against the establishment candidate, the president of the state senate, the guy named chuck more ieven in a hotly contested matchup like that. only 140,000 people voted.

new hampshire is a small state. it paints a clear picture. in 2020, 800,000 people voted the general election. in the last midterm, back in 2018, nearly 6 hub hundred,000 people did. so as much as we can analyze the 230,000 people who collectively voted new hampshire primaries last night, is that really a good predictor of anything? after all, those are the people who really pay attention to mikz. the kind of people who vote in primaries. and november is likely going to come down to some 400 to 600,000 people who did not vote last night but might vote in november. if we're honest, they don't watch a lot of cable news. and that is basically former obama speechwriter john favro's theer you of the case nationwide. we know people that watched every neutral of the january 6th hearings are likely to vote. we know how the people that thought the 2020 election are

likely to vote. what we don't know is how the people who haven't raemy been paying attention to all of this will vote or if they'll even show up to vote at all. john is running focus groups like this one to find out. >> how many of you plan on voting in the midterm elections this november? >> what is that? >> who is your member of congress and do you think they're doing a good job? >> i don't know anyone in congress. >> that's okay. >> does anyone know who their member of congress is? >> no. >> okay. that's okay. >> joining us now is john favro, former speechwriter for president obama. he co-hosts a podcast and host of the wilderness, a podcast about the history and future of the democratic party. john, thank you for being with us tonight. congratulations on running such a successful focus group, i

think. >> that was fun to listen to. people really excited about the mid terms. >> fun and shocking. we have been told -- i mean we've been led to believe, we in the press and american public, that the mythic swing voter is some white dude in diner in the midwest. and i feel like your work tears that myth apart. what have you found out in your travel as cross this great country about who swing voters actually are? >> one reason i did the series is the 81 million people that showed up vote against donald trump in 2020, a very small percentage of them as you mentioned actually follow the news closely. most people who actual i had vote don't have a preformed political opinion. they're not super ideological. they're not super partisan. they show up on election day and pick between two candidates. i want to talk to some of the people. i talked to black voters in

atlanta. i talked to working class latino voters in las vegas. i talked to disengaged democrats in pittsburgh. that group was young voters in orange county. katie porter is actually the member of congress. and they all voted for joe biden in 2020. but they're not sure what they're going to do in 2022. when you talk to voters, what really comes through is issues they talk about and care about the most. trying to make their rent, trying to own a home. the cost of gas, the cost of food. they all talked about abortion that came up a lot after -- all these focus groups were in the wake of the dobbs decision. some of the voters talked about gun violence. they talk about a whole series of issues. issues that really affect their lives. i asked all the groups, you know, what issues does the media cover too much and politicians talk about too much and what issues do they not talk about enough? and almost every group said january 6th, elections, politics, that all gets talked about way too much. no one is talking enough about

housing, rent, food costs. they feel disconnected from politics because they don't think politicians are speaking about the issues that matter most to them. >> i mean, listen, i'm guilty of talking a lot about january 6th. but not so much because it's necessarily a sensational story. you can't do anything about economic policy or student debt or the climate. if you don't have a representative democracy. are they engaged on -- are they aware of the threats to democracy? or is it personal that otherwise it doesn't make a dent. >> so views of democracy and politics are that politics isn't working. the republicans are extreme. they don't see the threat to democracy because they're not listening to my podcast or watching cable. and so i think if democrats want

people to join in the project of saving democracy, they have to prove to people that democracy is worth saving and to do that, you have to show that democracy can actually deliver in ways that taniblely improve people's lives. i sweet about the focus groups. everyone gets frustrated. forget voters. let's focus on registering new voters. you had stacey abrams on. the work of registering new voters is talking to people just like this, people that don't pay attention to politics. happen to be more moderate. they're younger. more likely to be people of color. you have to engage in difficult conversations to persuade people why they should get out of their house and vote. >> you mentioned dobbs. we couldn't play all that focus group that, is like a seismic shift. at least from this vantage point. i think it's something these voters really did not seem particularly concerned with other aspects of our democracy.

they were disvalley concerned about. did you feel like this is going to be a catalytic event for young voters or -- is this going to drive them to the polls? i know i'm asking you a very big question for a limited sample size. but what was the feeling that you had when you talked to these guys about dobbs? >> i did the first focus group right when the decision leaked then i did the last focus group tend of august. but every single focus group without me prompting them, people brought up abortion. it is interesting in virginia, the focus group was people who voted for joe biden and then voted for the republican and the gubernatorial elections. we went after dobbs was decided and one woman said that chutely -- absolutely pushed me to the democrats. there was outrage from dobbs about all of the voters. the challenge is even as young voters that heard about dobbs and outraged by it didn't know for sure when the mid terms

were, how to get the ballot, who the member of congress was. that's the challenge and actually educating people about what they need to do to go vote. >> john, former obama speechwriter, focus group commander, season three of his podcast "the wilderness" is out now. great to see you, john. >> thank you, alex. still ahead, january 6th, investigators receive a treasure-trove of text messages from the secret service. stick around. secret service. stick around if you have diabetes, then getting on the dexcom g6 is the single most important thing you can do. it eliminates painful fingersticks,

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in two weeks, the january 6th commit is expected to resume the blockbuster hearings. we're getting a sneak peek at what new firepower the committee might bring to the table. today chairman ben thompson and committee members reveal the panel got ahold of thousands of exhibits from the secret service including text messages from january 5th and 6th. yes, those messages. the ones we all thought were infamously lost. in mid july, the watchdog for the department of homeland security which the secret service is a part of told congress that a bunch of messages that secret service agents sent on and before january 6th 2021 that the messages were erased and

banished. the secret service said they were not deleted maliciously and the migration was planned well before the dhs watchdog told them to preserve the data. big if true, as they say. but now there is a criminal investigation into how those messages got erased. and it is worth noting that "the washington post" previously reported that staff at the dhs watchdog's office planned to use a forensic data specialist to retrieve the lost messages but the agency's top watchdog shut that down. if you missed that part of the story, here it is again. this past february when a senior forensic analyst took steps to gather staffer's phones to begin that recovery process, his office told investigators to stop what they were doing. we don't know why. but apparently they did. there was insight into what happened to the president at the capitol was being stormed. we thought the text messages

were lost forever, gone. but now the january 6th committee parentally has the messages and then some. here is the explanation of the magnitude of this new haul. >> there's texts, e-mails, radio track, all kinds of information, teams meetings. so we're going through everything that's been provided. the more is coming in. i say some of it is not relevant. some of it is. and it's a huge deal to go through it. we're going to go through it. the members of the committees themselves have been involved in this. we hope to have that completed soon. >> it is nothing that came in that you're aware of so far is in conflict with the public testimony presented by the committee to date. >> let me say, i have some concerns about documents and then comparing to some of the testimony that we received.

and we hope to resolve any discrepancies in a way that would make sense. and we'll have to do that as we proceed in an orderly way. >> discrepancies in testimony? what could that be? and who does it implicate? i know just who to ask. joining us now is andrew wiseman, former fbi general counsel, senior member of the mueller probe and current professor at nyu law. thank you for being here tonight. >> nice to be here. >> so this sounds like a lot of new information. it's radio traffic, i think she said teams meetings. do you have any supposition about where this material may have originated from or how it's being procured at this stage in time? >> yeah. i do. you know, used to be when i started out as a prosecutor, if you obstructed justice and you

destroyed paper copies, that was it. it was gone. but now with lap tops and this device, the computer, and iphones, it's really hard to get rid of something. so even though there may have been reaching destruction or even worse somebody may have even intentionally tried to get rid of something, there are all sorts of backup system. there is a cloud system. if you sent that message to somebody else, you can find it on their system that they may have not been erased. there are all sorts of ways they could have charged you and re-create what it is that happened on january 6th, january 5th, january 7th calling for all of the documents. >> this would seem to be really quite valuable correspondence, right? these are some of the biggest questions we have about what happened on january 6th. what was trump doing as the riot

unfolded? the phone logs from the white house are missing. what kind of danger was pence in? is what kind of role did the secret service play in getting him off the property and maybe taking him to a secure location? was that their intention? what kind of correspondence was there between the white house, president, and the secret service? was trump actually reaching over the backseat of his vehicle to try and stay or be taken to the capitol as cassidy hutchison testified? these are key moments from p january 6th that in theory could be revealed by this traunch of new evidence that we have. what are the sort of most pressing questions you have in temperatures of this new information that the committee has access to? >> so i think you laid out a lot of them. all of that, you can get testimony for. but you have to then make a credibility judgement if you have a conflict.

the recent prosecutors love e-mail ands text messages and calendar invites and mess efrpger shots is because it's contemporaneously recording what people are seeing and doing at the time. and i think the key thing for the prosecutors that i assume for the january 6th committee as well is anything that directly ties to what the former president was doing. not just in sight it but actually be there on site. what was his reaction? what was he saying with respect to mike pence and his role? i think anything that relates directly to the former president is going to be really key for prosecutors and for the january 6 committee. >> the congressman suggests there might be discrepancies

between documents and testimony. do you have any sense -- i mean do you have open questions? does that sort of ring any alarm bells in your mind? do you have anything in mind when you hear her say something like that? >> you know, it doesn't. you know, as a prosecutor, there are times you make a judgement that oh, those are natural differences for different people may remember things differently. sometimes you see a document and it refreshes your recollection. you don't think that person is lying. it yale depends on what the discrepancy is. there are other times where it's very black and white and you think to yourself, how is it possible for someone to have forgotten that? so, for instance, just to take an example, one side of the equation, you know, what cassidy hutchison said is really not borne out by contemporaneous records and secret service had. and that means when she was told what was happening, whoever told her that did not accurately

recount what happened. if the secret service was representing that something didn't happen but they are on contemporaneous documentation and that is a lot of people's suspicion when they hear that person people's records disappears and, of course, your eyebrows go up and your antenna goes up. it's going to depend on the facts. >> andrew wiseman, former senior member of the mueller probe and professor at nyu law, thank you for your expertise. >> thank you. we have one more story to get to tonight. one that could have major reprecushions all across this country. stay with us. precushions all ac country. stay with us fit together with away things. ♪ ♪ that's our thing. ♪ ♪

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heads up. the country is on the verge of a huge railroad strike. and the economic and political stakes could not be higher. as soon as this friday, 115,000 rail workers walk off the job to demand better working conditions over sick days and regular time off from long shifts. workers do go forward with the

strike, it will have mass you have implications for american supply chains creating new shortages just as the nation begins to recover from the biggest supply chain disruption in history. which is why the strike is a big political problem. it is a key part of president biden's coalition to support the democrats will need heading into this year's mid terms. at the same time, a major supply chain disruption causing significant travel headaches is a boom to republicans. so the problem is complicated which is why democrats and congress have been reluctant to get involved. republicans, meanwhile, don't face the same political rallies. they're not crowing about being pro labor ever. they introduced legislation to force the rail workers back to work and by the way, put pressure on the democrats. the white house says it's developed contingency plans to get goods to market by trucks and airfreight. that could prove to be a colossal challenge given that rail carries 30% of the nation's

freight and other transportation systems are maxed out right now. that does it for us. we'll see you again tomorrow. "way too early" where jonathan lamire is coming up next. >> right now, if you work in the freight rail industry, one of the most grueling and dangerous jobs in america, you are entitled to a grand total of zero sick days. let me repeat it. you are entitled to zero sick days. what that means is that if you as a worker gets sick, if your child gets sick, if your spouse gets sick