plummeted. my first day in office i directed my national security and homeland security teams to develop a first-ever national strategy for counter and domestic terrorism. the goal is to improve and enhance our understanding as a growing threat within our country, prevent people from being mobilized to violence, the counter the relentless exploitation of the internet to recruit and mobilize domestic terrorism. and there's more we have to do together, a whole of government approach and a whole of nation approach. that's why today we're launching a new white house initiative on hate-motivated violence. we're going to use every federal resource available to help communities counter hate-fueled violence, build resilience, and foster greater national unity. for example, trainings on identifying, reporting, and combating hate-fueled violence

for local law enforcement agencies, workplaces, and houses of worship, partnerships with schools that help them address bullying and harassment. i'm calling for a new era of national service to organizations like americorps to bridge divides in our society and i'm calling on congress to do its part, raise the living allowance for national service positions to the equivalent of $15 an hour. [ applause ] this would make national service an accessible pathway to success for more americans of all backgrounds. pass my budget, increase funding to protect nonprofits and houses of worship from hate-fueled violence. [ applause ] and hold social media platforms accountable for spreading hate-fueled violence.

i'm calling on congress to get rid of special immunity for social media companies and impose much stronger transparency requirements on all of them. [ applause ] folks, it's not just the federal government that can act. everyone has a role to play in this story, whether you're a researcher seeking to understand the causes of hate-fueled violence, a philanthropist hoping to fund that research, or a concerned neighbor bearing witness to it and most collectively condemn those seeking mainstream violence or the threat of violence. look, as part of this summit, nonprofit organizations like the interfaith america, habitat for humiliate, and the ymca are launching new nationwide training to teach 10,000 americans how to become

bridge-builders in their communities. and the u.s. conference of mayors spearheading democrats, republicans, and independents to address hate-fueled violence in their communities. today a group of philanthropic leaders are mobilizing $1 billion investment toward building a culture of respect, peace, and cooperation in our civic life. [ applause ] folks, this is just the beginning, a new bipartisan initiative, dignity.u.s. will take this conversation on the road across all 50 states and the district of columbia, territories, tribal lands, to find ways to scale up the best ideas. bipartisan presidential center, senior officials from prior democrat and republican

administrations will all support this effort. we're also about to meet some local heroes as we're honoring the uniters, 29 follow americans, pastors, rabbis, imams, building across faiths, police officers, middle school student mobilizing our community, a film-maker documenting the epidemic of missing and murdered indigenous people, and so many more who are taking a stand. that's what this summit is all about. we, the people, we have to stand united. we have to do more. let me close where i started by thanking all of you and two people in particular, rona and sodi. as a brother, one of the first

american victims of post-9/11 hate crimes. on this day in 2001 with ground zero smoldering, he was targeted, shot, and killed at work in arizona by a white supremacist. to honor his memory, last year at the white house, we displayed the turban he used to wear with pride. ms. sarah collins randolph is also here today. in 1963, her sister was one of four little girls preparing for sunday school who were murdered by white supremacists at the 16th baptist church bombing in birmingham. ms. collins still carries the scars of that blast. mrs. collins rudolph, i'm honored to see you here again. thank you for being here. i visited the church on this day

in 201 you all these years later, ms. randolph, mr. sodhi, providing the evidence that we need proving that grief is universal. but so is hope and so is love. my fellow americans, we remain in the battle for the soul of our nation. when i look around at all of you here today, i know we'll win that battle. i know we'll win it. the powers within each of us to transform the story of our time, to rise together against hate, to show who we are. we are the united states of america, and there's nothing, nothing beyond our capacity. one of my reasons for optimism is, young people in this

country. they're the least prejudiced, most volunteering, least -- how can i say it? least likely to find blame and most likely to get engaged. we have to organize them, just like our generation was organized in the civil rights days. we can do this because the violence and the haters are in a minority. but unless we speak out, unless we speak out, this is going to continue. it'll continue. and, folks, we cannot be intimidated by those talking about this as somehow we're a bunch of wacko liberals. think about how it's characterized. we have to stand up and i'm

confident we will. thank you all for being here and, susan, thank you for organizing this. [ applause ] i've said many times, anytime i walk out of my grandpa finigan's house, he would say joey, keep the faith. my grandmother would say, no, spread it. thank you. >> hi, everyone. it's after 4:00. a remarkable speech there by president joe biden from the white house, capping off the united we stand summit. it's a day-long event designed to address hate-fueled violence in america right now. the importance of the message quite clear, but so is the

messenger. in the course of officially launching his successful candidacy for the presidency in april of 2019, the first two words he uttered were charlottesville, virginia, in the context of the violence there and the resulting imperative in his view to restore the soul of our nation. how appropriate and powerful then that today president joe biden was introduced by susan bro, the mother of heather heyer, who died in the protests in charlottesville. we're aware of what happened next. she was sadly just the beginning. in the years since, there have been more attacks. there is more hate, more innocent people have been killed. incidents of hate-fueled violence feel relentless in america. recall what happened in buffalo back in may. ten people who were just grocery shopping on saturday were murdered in cold blood by a gunman simply because they were

black. the victims of that disgusting, racist massacre weren't even buried yet. they hadn't been put to rest before the nation's focus abruptly shifted to the tragic in uvalde, texas. 19 students and 2 teachers dead, their crime, going to school or work. president joe biden today calling for a whole of society response to hate-fueled violence. the plan includes a host of new policies and actions on the part of the federal government, local leaders, and tech companies. it's where we begin our coverage today. nbc news mike memoli will join us from the white house as soon as he can make it from the president's speech out to the north lawn. jason johnson is already here, politics and journalism professor at morgan state university. also an msnbc contributor. and our friend t democratic

strategist, aisha mills is back. susan bro saying the president was following through on a campaign promise. but this certainly is an interesting bookend to that animated principle behind his candidacy today. >> yes. i mean, this is something that joe biden has believed in. if you believe the story, which i do, that he said i had no intention of running for president, he was the retired war hero out in the mountain chopping wood in charlottesville brought him back into the fight that everyone thought he'd have to fight again. and i found that to be charming and engaging. i've always thought that joe biden is a good moral leader when it comes to these issues. what i found missing from this speech is usually what i find from speeches like this. there were no teeth to it or specificity. hate-filled violence. most acts of violence are filled with hate. a sexual assault is an act of hate. you know, shooting people in a grocery store is an act of hate.

you know what's also an act of hate, defunding a city until the people can't drink water, underfunding schools full of black and brown children. we have to be specific about what kind of hate we're talking about, and this is taking place at a time where you have governors in florida and texas who are -- i'm not a legal analyst, so i can't say kidnapping, but are taking undocumented people and shifting them around the country as a political stunt. those are also actions of hate. so i'd like to hear more from president biden. where is the policy? where is the doj going to go to enact policy. >> one of the things he did speak of more specifically was gun safety legislation, what has been accomplished and what he views as a big to-do list t assault weapons ban on his list. what did you think of the

speech? >> well, i thought the speech was inspiring. i'm glad to see that he continues to talk about doing something about violence. you know, it's important that he tout all the things and the successes around gun violence and otherwise going into the midterms. i think that this speech is an opportunity to shift the conversation nationally to be one that is positive as we move into the midterms. as he was talking, i googled dignity.us, a new listening tour around the country to try to bring communities together. i like that he is centering my friend michael smith, they don't say ceo of americorps at the white house talking about this. he's centering national service and conversations within communities and getting community leaders to actually build bridges across difference. i think that all those are meaningful and important and inspiring and give us a sense of hope. remember that hope and change refrain? >> yeah. >> i think there's a hearkening back to the obama era of people

feeling powerful in their lives that the biden administration is trying to bring into the midterms, which are expected to be divisive. i agree with jason that there's a lot of devil in the details of actual policy measures that need to be moved, period, full stop. i do think we benefit as a nation from having a tone and tenor and being able to have broader conversations that are hopeful. and so i'm looking forward to seeing how that listening tour plays out and what the pr, frankly, looks like going into the midterms around all this. >> jason, just trying to beat your challenge of where is the substance. "washington post" reports there's been a surge of hate crimes under garland in the first six months of 2022. the justice department filed 20 case, a pace that would eclipse any single year of the obama or trump administrations. i take your point that it's cranking up too slowly in

pro-portion to what's going on in this country, but it would seem there's enough to build on here now. >> well, yeah. look, there's always something to build on, and the doj, especially with some of the deputies that garland's had, they have gotten better at prosecuting certain kinds of hate crimes. that's progress. we also have a president who says i want to fund the police at the same time that we're finding evidence after evidence and study after study after study that large police forces, even parts of the armed forces have been filled with white nationalists, that the attitudes and beliefs of many of these people that he wants to fund and put more of them in the street are the antithesis of what he's talking about. a year ago the president went to tulsa and talked about the terrible tragedy that happened 100 years ago. we still have two or three people alive from that attack. they haven't received reparations. the concern i have, nicole, is it's not a lack of faith in the heart, in the belief of the people speaking it.

i don't think joe biden wants america to be torn apart by racism. i don't even think some republicans feel that way. and it's a rare thing for me to say. i don't think republicans feel that way. but are they willing to do the difficult work? prosecuting somebody after they've committed a crime is closing the barn door after it's already stomped through your rice fields. we need to tear this stuff out at the roots, and that comes in the police departments, in policy, and in preventing people who have evil in their heart from getting the levers of power to attack those that they don't believe in and don't think should be part of america. that's what i need to hear, and that's the long-standing change that will make people who are concerned like me believe that maybe our future is going to be brighter. >> he did use the device of bright light as an antiseptic. let me show you what he said about the oxygen given to hate on the right of our media ecosystem. let me show that to you, aiesha. >> you know, hate can be

defeated. but it only hides. and when given any oxygen, it comes out from under the rocks. in the last few years, we've been giving too much oxygen to our politics, the media, and the internet. too much hate all for power and profit. that's the part that's changed a little bit. it's about power and profit. >> as he said that, i was thinking about the hatred directed toward asian americans by the ex-president during the covid-19 pandemic. i was thinking about the deeply personal attacks against vice president kamala harris. i was thinking about the ageism directed at president joe biden. i was thinking about the physical confrontations that the few republicans who have sought to hold donald trump accountable

have faced. there is an epidemic and a toxicity in our politics that doesn't go away if we ignore it, aiesha. >> nicole, you're right. and i was also thinking about the profit tiering around the coverage of those things and the sensationalism of them. and so it was curious to me that the technology firms were brought up as policing themselves or somehow putting forth some new initiatives to deal with the disinformation t misinformation t perpetuation of all the nasty that you just talked about that ends up going viral on these platforms, bringing all kinds of eyeballs to them and keeping them at the top of the national discourse. for me, i saw the color of change put forth a new plan this week to deal with the tech companies and hold them accountable for the way that their platforms are really how so much of this hate is being organized and then proliferated throughout society. and so i'm curious how they are

going to be trusted to police themselves, which sounds like a piece of this, and think we need to have some real talk about the fact that, you know, yes, all those things exist in society, they existed long before donald trump. the difference is that there are more cameras and that there are more microphones in front of it. what are we going to do about that? and i say we for all of us who continue to watch it as the train wreck goes by, that's a big question, and that's why i bring up this idea of what's the pr going to look like, because this dignity.us or whatever conversation this administration is trying to have, we'll be following them. >> let me add to the conversation. mike memoli at the white house. mike, this is a speech where at least our small focus group gives president joe biden high marks for what's in his heart, but they're looking for the policy tangibles. tell me what went into this speech today and what will follow it. >> reporter: nicole, i thought

it was interesting because at the white house of late we've been hearing a lot of talk about promises made and promises kept. we saw that on display this week as the president was talking about promises he made like infrastructure and the prescription drug cost cap that was part of the inflation reduction act. what we just saw from the president is a much more solemn pledge, not to do with policy, but what biden, of course, called the very soul of the nation. and i thought it was very notable who joined the president as he walked out. susan bro t mother of heather heyer who was killed in the violence in charlottesville, virginia, in 2019. that was the impetus for him to get in the presidential race to begin with. the president following through on promises he made to the groups after buffalo as well to use every aspect of the presidential bully pulpit to call out hate-fueled violence in this country, and i thought one of the most important lines from this president reflecting the criticism that he's been getting of late, especially in response to that speech in philadelphia a

few weeks ago that by calling out hate, he himself is dividing the country. he said we cannot be silenced. the only way to silence this is with our voice here. so that was an important distinction the president was making. but i thought part of the larger purpose of this summit, nicole, is that as powerful as he is as the president of the united states and setting a very different example than his predecessor, it takes the ordinary voices of ordinary americans to also speak up at an important moment. he said it's easy to call out the fringes. that's a much more clear line for a lot of people to draw. the harder task before us as a country is some of those more run-of-the-mill, mundane differences that have increasingly become sharper of late that you can disagree and try to build bridges without sacrificing your principles. that's been another major challenge for this administration. as far as other policy

deliverables, it is difficult. he called again for the banning of assault weapons. we've seen those as a major focus. but it's interesting the degree to which some ordinary policy prescriptions are also parts of this. i thought one of the most moving and troubling moments, in fact, was when susan bro described the fact that five years after her daughter was killed in charlottesville, you still see white supremacists leaving leaflets, propaganda, stickers throughout charlottesville, including at the site where her daughter was killed. there's a kind of training, and this is what biden did call for, that is necessary for local law enforcement for cities that never had to deal with this kind of thing before, that is, part of what his administration putting forward. the standing ovation was for calling out social media companies saying they have a responsibility to really step up to the plate here as well. and called for congress to strip immunity here. so those are some of the policy prescriptions. but this, of course, is a much

broader, more difficult task that the president has set himself on, but he said he's not going to give up that fight and continue this moving forward. >> mike memoli, this was not the first time we saw president joe biden today. he came out earlier and announced a tentative deal that would avert a rail strike. talk about what went into that and his role in that. >> reporter:well, it's interesting, nicole, because we see so often the president describing himself as the most pro-labor president in american history. he has been introduced at just about every event he's done of late on the economy by a union worker. but he approached this challenge trying to be a neutral arbiter to the extent that he's able to, no he go that one of his core promises as well is to advocate for collective bargaining, to get workers the rights they deserve. the president knew full well what a shutdown, a strike by these freight workers would have meant for his administration. we saw him investing a significant amount of time behind the scenes, conversations with both labor and management to try to get them to a

resolution. but you saw him also praise marty walsh, former mayor of boston but former shop captain himself that were part of the marathon talks at the labor department, 20 hours leading to a 5:00 a.m. announcement from this white house after a handshake agreement that this deal got done. this is a prosecute who wants to both -- i think it's significant, nicole. ultimately management gave up a lot. unions did win some of the most significant concessions they were seeking here, and it's important as the president was underscoring, knowing that a union that workers have a president's back. this is something that's a particular point of pride for the white house this afternoon. >> mike memoli on a big day at the biden white house. jason johnson and aisha mills, thank you for watching and covering this breaking news with us. we are grateful. when we come back, a member of the twice-impeached ex-president's inner circle has reportedly handed over new

evidence to the justice department in its wide-ranging january 6th probe as we wait for the judge to decide on that other trump investigation into the removed and hoarded classified documents at mar-a-lago. a lot of legal to unpack with our experts. plus, the ex-president continuing to give a nod and a wink to some of his most violent supporters, threatening, quote, problems that we've never seen before as a country. should he be indicted? we'll speak to congressman jim hines, member of the house intelligence committee, about the risk the ex-president poses to the country. later in the show, a political stunt in which the governor of florida sends away dozens of human beings on airplanes as though they are cargo, effectively, perhaps, it counts as human trafficking, all to appeal to a base where the cruelty is the point. all those stories and more when deadline house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

but couldn't keep up. so my husband just stopped taking his medicine. and then he had a stroke. i can't get back what i lost, but thanks to aarp, a new law will protect seniors with a cap on their prescription costs. that could have changed everything for us. i'm just grateful that no one will have to face the terrible choices that we did - i'm norm. - i'm szasz. [norm] and we live in columbia, missouri. we do consulting, but we also write. [szasz] we take care of ourselves constantly; it's important. we walk three to five times a week, a couple miles at a time. - we've both been taking prevagen for a little more than 11 years now. after about 30 days of taking it, we noticed clarity that we didn't notice before. - it's still helping me. i still notice a difference. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. when it comes to giving your kitchen a fresh spin, i still notice a difference. with wayfair it's easy.

so you can get an upgrade. change your scenery. and make it shine. so no matter what project your tackling, from refresh to remodel, wayfair's got everything you need to give your home a fresh spin. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪

you see, son, with a little elbow grease, you can do just about anything. thanks, dad. that's right, robert. and it's never too early to learn you could save with america's number one motorcycle insurer. that's right, jamie. but it's not just about savings. it's about the friends we make along the way. you said it, flo. and don't forget to floss before you brush. your gums will thank you. -that's right, dr. gary. -jamie? sorry, i had another thought so i got back in line. what was it? [ sighs ] i can't remember.

there are major developments to tell you about in the now-plethora of investigations into the conduct of the twice-impeached ex-president and his inner most circle. mark meadows is complying with a subpoena from the justice department's january 6th probe, making him the highest ranking official from the trump administration to respond to a subpoena from doj. a recent filing from former trump doj official jeffrey clark, he's the one who tried to pressure doj into backing trump's baseless claims of election fraud and sent letters based on that fraud to georgia,

became incredibly close to being appointed acting ag, so close that he was named acting ag in a white house call log by donald trump. it was revealed that the justice department searched clark's home and seized his phone back in june looking for evidence of three potential crimes, making false statements, conspiracy, and obstruction of justice. today is also the deadline set by the justice department for judge eileen cannon to rule on the request that investigators gain access to those 100 classified documents that were seized in the search of donald trump's private residence and golf club. doj says they will take their case to an appeals court if cannon doesn't make a decision. joining our coverage, carol leonning, "washington post" investigating reporter, and neal katyal, now a georgetown university law professor. both, thank god, are msnbc contributors and we get to call on them. the "post" has had great

reporting on the separate probes but also this portrait of increasing exposure for the ex-president himself. what is your take on the state of the various and now seemingly interconnected probes? >> well, nicole, great question. forgive my voice today. i don't have covid, but i have something. this topic, though, i want to share a little bit of what we know at "the washington post." number one, there's a good reason donald trump appears to be frowning at his golf course the other day. while there are a lot of conspiracy theories floating around about why he was there, his mood is pretty obvious. he has reason to be unhappy and displeased. he is on municipality fronts under investigation. some were returned, including

mark meadows, the request by doj for texts, all these these things flying around have given the department of justice a lot of information. he must know by now as well, nicole, that somebody in his inner circle, somebody close to him, close to him at mar-a-lago, close to him in his white house has been cooperating with the department of justice to make clear that there was a high degree of certainty that they would find classified records. still at mar-a-lago after donald trump's lawyers insisted they had done a diligent search and none were to be found. this is clear, i think, from the amount of activity going on that the department of justice is a lot further along with the straight-up case as refer to it at "the washington post" t straight-up case of potential obstruction, potential retention, and concealment of government records. then they are on the place where

there's a lot of subpoenas flying around, and that is was donald trump or some of his aides and allies engaged in a seditious conspiracy to start that pretty frightening insurrection at our capitol on january 6th? >> to carol's point, it's such a nuanced observation that the stealing of documents would be something that the archives knew in terms of what their work product was. all of it gets checked out and usually checked back in. but the obstruction case, which is what far-right legal analysts keep returning to, people like chris christie, it has to be aided by witnesses or documents that suggest that perhaps -- it would seem that it is aided by someone who can pointed them to

surveillance footage, by someone who could say, there's still more, or it's not all in the storage room, check the office. what do you make of the strength of the obstruction case? >> it's very strong. from the very start of that search, i and i think most people that worked at the justice department have said, nicole, they must have a source or sources on the inside. it's just too hard to think they would have known to go in, know where exactly to go in, and get these documents. so i certainly think there is a source or sources on the inside. i also think that donald trump himself recognizes it. politico just reported that the lawyer that donald trump hired is getting paid $3 million for this. and just, you know, i've handled a lot of the biggest case in the entire system. $3 million is an extraordinary,

extraordinary a. money to do a case. if you talked to the general counsel of any large company, they'll say maybe a couple of times we've done that and paid that much for a case. but that's a lot. that means there's one of two possibilities. possibility one is that this lawyer, who was the former florida solicitor general is demanding super premium because he's never going to work again, that's option one. option two is there's so much legal work to be done and it transcends just the documents and the obstruction case, because those two things together i don't think could get you $3 million. i do think it's remarkable that trump does at the end of the day manage to find new legal counsel when virtually every attorney that has gone near him thus far wound up the source of a federal probe or ethics violations or this and that. but $3 million evidently he's

talked to at least one person. >> the $3 million may very well have come from the big grift, which is also now under doj criminal investigation. so with trump t dog is usually chewing the tail. what do you make, though, of the fact that this development of mark meadows turning over to the justice department really just being responsive to a subpoena, all of the material that the congressional committee had. but it is high-level really off the record communications. we have liz cheney reading the text messages in the public hearings. let's play that. >> we have evidence of many others imploring donald trump and mark meadows to take action. here is some of that evidence, text messages sent to mark meadows during the attack. this is a text messages at 2:32 from lawyer ingraham. hey, mark, the president needs

to tell people in the capitol to go home. and the next message, this is hurting all of us. and then he's destroying his legacy and playing into every stereotype. we lose all credibility against the blm antifa crowd if things go south. the president's son, don junior, also urgently contacted mark meadows at 2:53. he wrote he's got to condemn this [ bleep ] asap. the capitol police tweet is not enough. at 3:31 p.m. on january 6th, sean hannity of fox news texted mark meadows. mr. hannity said, quote, can he make a statement? i saw the tweet. ask people to leave the capitol. later that evening, mr. hannity sent another text to mark meadows. this time he shared a link to a tweet. that tweet reported that president trump's cabinet

secretaries were considering i invoking the 25th amendment to remove president trump from office. >> carol you know this better than anyone. a white house chief of staff in any normal white house knows everything. they know every movement, they know every conversation, they know everyone in and out of the white house. in this case where according to liz cheney donald trump gathered a mob, he riled up the mob, and then he unleashed them on the capitol where they endangered the life of his own vice president and every member of congress, mark meadows may be either an accomplice to a criminal conspiracy or certainly a firsthand witness to everything that went down. >> i think that second part is so important, nicole. he is in the room every time one of these threads of nutty conspiracy plans are hatched. you know, when the pillow guy comes in and says here's what i think we can do, when michael

flynn and sidney powell are proposing rerunning the election, when he is, you know, literally getting all of the texts you just read, all of this scandalous material where leading republican advisers to donald trump are begging the chief of staff to get the president to do something, he's there and replying, at least in one instance, to the white house counsel, i'm sorry, pat, he doesn't want to do anything. he's eyes and ears for so much of what the government is trying to understand. was donald trump as president knowingly, intentionally defrauding the government, conspiring to obstruct a government proceeding. he put the target on the back of vice president pence. that's visibly known based on literally his own tweets. but what does mark meadows --

what can he tell the government about what donald trump was acknowledging one-to-one, man-to-man when these ideas were being fleeted. at least in one instance, nicole, which you and i have talked about, which i would like to harp on a bit, at least in one instance, that's in a conversation with then-acting members of the leadership of the department of justice after bill barr had said sayonara, i'm not staying for more of this, donald trump said yeah, i know. you don't have to claim there's fraud, just say there's fraud. in this instance, it was a glimmer that donald trump knew there was no fraud in georgia. he just wanted the department of justice officials to claim it, as he said, we'll take care of the rest. >> there are there's seem to be a very reasonable set of questions about mark meadows complicity and participation

with our members, as donald trump called them, about that call that carol is talking about now. he also participated in trying to overturn the results of the election in georgia after it had been thrice audit by the republican secretary of state and governor there. there are questions about his knowledge of violence ahead of time and the dangers to mike pence and members of congress and there is a reasonable bucket of questions about what he got a million bucks from the fraudulent, grifty super pac for doing. >> yeah, nicole. you know, it's a bit sad to think the expectations for donald trump and his inner circle are so low that the surprising part in all of this isn't that a former president's chief of staff received a subpoena in the federal investigation. it's the reporting that he actually complied with one. that to me is astounding. i mean, i know there's all these reports out there that say mark meadows is complying, but i'll believe it when i see it. i mean, meadows is a slippery

dude. it might just be pr spin that he's doing right now turning over a lot of things but not actually everything. now, if he does actually turn over anything, i think it's great that the federal investigators, the january 6th committee are getting. i just want to caution, this guy doesn't deserve a medal in any way, shape, or form for turning over this information now under a subpoena. i mean, it's not like he discovered a newfound sensitivity patriotism. to the extent he's complying, he's complying under the gun. one of the things we just don't talk about, we had a whole impeachment over all of this more than a year and a half ago. where was meadows then? where were all these people then? they were nowhere to be found on something as important as

january 6th and the first kind of invasion of the capitol since the war of 1812. it's unforgivable. >> carolyn, get better. we need your reporting and your voice. neal katyal, thank you. you stay healthy too. switching gears for us a little bit. as trump's legal jeopardy deepens, the threats against law enforcement grow. they're out in the open from trump. propped up in his own voice in interviews, we'll talk about that with congressman jim himes of the intelligence committee, next. there's a monster problem and our hero needs solutions. so she starts a miro to brainstorm. “shoot it?” suggests the scientists. so they shoot it. hmm... back to the miro board.

dave says “feed it?” and dave feeds it. just then our hero has a breakthrough. "shoot it, camera, shoot a movie!" and so our humble team saves the day by working together. on miro. what do we want delivered every month? clumping litter? salmon pate? love that for me. just choose the frequency and ship it! i feel so accomplished. now you can pet me. great prices on

everything pets want. chewy. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

questlove is the poetry of stillness. a thundering drumbeat. discovering the virtues of a wandering mind. conflict and climate change. a new black dream. the hidden melodies of trains. the sacred spell of words. this art was looted. the power of a dinner table. a country on the brink. carving a path through the heart of philadelphia. a story of love and obsession. affirmations, etched in vinyl.

[ it's funny how the universe works. ] it was stunning the number of threats that have been cataloged and indexed since the august 8th search at mar-a-lago. we've seen -- at the cincinnati fbi office and other places that is very explicit and specific, and others which are generalized and addressed, the security of each and every federal agent. the fact that it's a much more dangerous environment because of the political statements that have been made since august 8th is alarming to me. >> that was senate judiciary chairman dick durbin. he's been in the news a lot this week. today after a closed-door briefing by the fbi and the department of homeland security on the surge in threats against law enforcement, senator durbin there undoubtedly referring to statements made by the

ex-president who just a few hours ago made this threat to radio host hugh hewitt on what will happen if he's indicted. >> i think if it happened, i think you'd have problems in this country, the likes of which perhaps we've never seen before. i don't think the people of the united states would stand for it. >> what kind of problems, mr. president? >> i think they'd have big problems, big problems. >> you don't say. joining us now, congressman jim himes of connecticut, member of the house intelligence committee. congressman himes, what do you do about an existing domestic violence threat in the u.s. that is the largest terror threat that our country faces right now, and a president who seems intent on stoking the sentiments that undergird that threat? >> well, it's horrifying, nicole. i just finished doing three town

hall meetings in my district in connecticut. more than ever before, i've done town hall meetings, dozens and dozens of dozens over the years. more than ever before i worry about it because the polling shows that a record number of americans believe that violence may be justified in certain circumstances. you just ran donald trump's statement. you got a sitting united states senator, lindsey graham, sort of with this mafia-like language if the president were indicted, there would be rioting in the streets. you could say that's a warning. it feels almost as much as an invitation. bottom line is it's up to people like me, regardless of our party, regardless of our politics to say we have a robust argument, but under no circumstances is violence ever okay. in a very polarized time f we don't start our statements that way, there's just too much room for misinterpretation. >> well, i guess my question is a matter of the volume of the countermessage.

donald trump participated in a rally for the criminals, the convicted criminals and those awaiting trial, the insurrectionists. ashli babbitt's mother was there. he described the cop mike pence yourself included, called the cop a disgrace. how do you make sure the volume and direct messaging to people who can counter the disinformation and the incitement is on par with and is focused as the messaging and the direct lying communication between trump and the insurrectionists themselves? >> yeah. well, i mean, one of the things -- i saw this in my town hall meetings. be cognizant of the fact that what the president said in philadelphia, you might have complaints about how he said it or where, but the president was right. this is not two political extremes. this is very much the invitation to violence, the performance of

violence. i was in the chamber on january 6. then the justification of violence. the ex-president of the united states, donald trump saying, if i am re-elected, i will pardon those who attacked congress. what i get in town hall meetings is, what about portland, people throwing bricks through windows in seattle? we can't learn the discernment that allows us to say that right wing violence -- i got this briefing this morning. since 9/11, lethal violence has been white supremacistsupremaci. it hasn't been people on the left. we need to know where this problem lives. yes to some extent in our society where we are a violent society. but you have the right wing, whether it's donald trump or lindsey graham, not being willing to say that violence is wrong. in some cases saying, it might be justified.

>> the other difference is, nobody on the left is offering to pardon anyone who committed violence on behalf of any aligned causes. it's a stunning dynamic that we're glad to have your voice on. there's so much more i want to ask you about. you have been a constant voice and window into where congressional support stands for president zelenskyy on the war in ukraine. it has taken a big turn. they have reclaimed over 3,000 square miles. i wonder your thoughts on communications, your conversations about how we continue to support them so they can achieve an ultimate victory. >> well, certainly, the gains they have made on the battlefield in the last two weeks have steeled the spines of people in this building. i think inevitably over time, particularly in a situation of stalemate, when you see the brutal stories of civilians being hurt, people start to ask the question, are we going to do splg good here? the remarkable battlefield gains the ukrainians have made have

changed this building. there are people, particularly on the right, particularly on the right who are saying, for reasons that i can't fully unpack for you, who are saying we shouldn't be supporting ukraine. if you watch tucker carlson there's an instinct to be supportive of putin. hopefully, they are rethinking that. putin is not a strongman. he is a strawman, paper tiger, if you will. there's a small minority here who i think is skeptical. but the overwhelming majority is saying, we need to stand for freedom, democracy that we have always stood for. >> congressman, i don't know if you looked at the book by jeffrey berman. it's an unbelievable portrait of corruption at the highest levels of the justice department. senator durbin announced the senate judiciary committee would investigate the claims he made of politicalization at doj. it included opening

investigations and proceeding with investigations into former obama white house counsel and investigating john kerry. what do you make the need to unpack and investigate the misconduct and corruption of the crump era? >> it's obscene. it's not in any way, shape or form surprising. donald trump and too many of his people believe that neither the laws nor the rules nor the regulations nor the conventions apply to them. so you had a very clear attempt to use the doj as a political weapon. i sit on the intelligence committee. i can't tell you the number of times that intelligence people felt like they couldn't do their jobs because if they delivered the truth, it would be rejected the way donald trump standing next to vladimir putin rejected the conclusions of the intelligence community around the russian meddling in our election. one thing i would say, having

made that case, i hear as a democrat the constant refrain of, indict donald trump, throw him in jail. donald trump needs to be in jail. yes, if there's an investigation that leads to a chargeable crime, a trial and conviction, that should happen. those of us who may be the only ones left standing for an impartial judicial system need to be very careful that we don't inadvertently repeat the travesty of the trump administration by doing anything other than standing up for impartial and good process within the law enforcement system. >> i want to ask you about mr. durham. he wrapped up his probe. i don't know people would describe it the way you did, impartial. there were a lot of conclusions reached before the investigation and the investigative partial and evidence was marshalled to support the conclusions, at least on the part of donald trump and bill barr. i suppose it's good that it ened without bringing charges or

convictions. it was used for four years by the right as almost the right wing parallel to investigate the investigators. any thoughts about its conclusion? >> the attempt to rewrite history is staggering. no surprise, it turns out there was no deep state attempt to overthrow donald trump. the investigation really found nothing. they're trying to paper over the fact, calling the investigation the mueller investigation, into the trump campaign's behavior a hoax. the president invited -- the president's son invited russian meddling. the president invited it on television. we're in a world where facts don't matter to that crowd. i watched nine benghazi investigations against hillary clinton that proved that while a tragic event, there was no fault on her part or the state department's part. that doesn't matter. it's tribal liturgy at this point. facts don't matter.

what matter is taking your grievances and hate and anger and articulaing it in a way that angers people. >> i told we had a long list. thank you for taking our questions today. >> thank you. a right wing power grab at the expense of human beings. men, women and children. they were tricked into getting on a plane for someone to score political points, someone who could very well end up the next republican nominee for president. don't tell trump. that story is next. next inkorswie is more than a trading platform. it's an entire trading experience. that pushes you to be even better. and just might change how you trade—forever. because once you experience thinkorswim® by td ameritrade ♪♪♪ there's no going back. a monster was attacking but the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose.

when it comes to giving your home a fresh spin, wayfair makes it easy to refresh or remodel. so you can switch up your style. get an upgrade. and make it shine. no matter what project your tackling, wayfair's got everything you need to give your home a fresh spin.

♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪

all those people in d.c. and new york were beating their chests when trump was president saying they were so proud to be sanctuary jurisdictions, saying how bad it was to have a secure border. the minute even a small fraction of what those border towns deal with every day is brought to their front door, they all of a sudden go berserk. they're so upset this is happening. it shows you their virtue signaling is a fraud. >> speaking of chest pounding, hi, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. that was florida governor and likely 2024 presidential hopeful ron desantis. he has gone after president joe biden and his immigration policies before. today, a significant escalation in that fight. desantis is taking credit for flying two planes yesterday to martha's vineyard. they were filled with 50 human

beings, migrants from venezuela. they report, the migrant group, which included children, arrived on two planes around 3:00 p.m. without any warning, according to the state senator, a massachusetts democrat representing cape cod, martha's vineyard and nantucket. officials and volunteers from the island's six towns really moved heaven and earth to essentially set up the response that we would do in the event of a hurricane, he said. a state representative tweeted out this photo saying, our island jumped into action, putting together 50 beds, giving everyone a meal, providing a play area for children, making people have health care and support they need. we are a community that comes together to support immigrants. congressman bill keating of massachusetts described the situation this morning and went

after desantis for using migrants as political pawns. >> they reported to me these people got off the plane, men, women and children from venezuela as they told me. they had a map or instructions in their hand where they would get housing and jobs. it was a vacant parking lot. we contacted our governor. this is interesting. this is a tale of two governors, two republican governors. one who was using taxpayer money for chartered jets and reportedly his own video photographer to capture this for his own political benefit taking advantage of women and children, men who didn't know where they were going and another governor in massachusetts that we contacted and his office who put his nose to the grindstone and had his agencies spring into action along with local officials to deal with the crisis. >> today, news of more migrants being transported, this time

ordered by texas governor greg abbott, who has sending migrants around the country for months. two buses of migrants from the u.s./mexico border were dropped off near vice president kamala harris' home. just last week, the mayor of d.c. declared a public emergency over the continued arrival of buses of migrants. we begin with myles taylor, former chief of staff with the department of homeland security, basil smizel, a democratic strategist and director of the public policy program at hunter college, former cia director and msnbc senior national security analyst john brennan and harry litman, former u.s. attorney, former deputy assistant attorney

general. the host of the podcast, talking buds. people want to know what's supposed to happen. let me show that to you. >> there's a process in place. we have had a process in place. there's a legal way of doing this. for managing migrants. republican governors interfering in that process and using migrants as political pawns is shameful. it's reckless. just plain wrong. remember, these are people who are fleeing communism, who are fleeing hardship. if these governors truly care about border security, they should ask texas governor ted cruz and florida senators marco rubio and rick scott why they voted against the president's request for record funding for the department of homeland security.

>> i worked for a president who saw the issue of illegal immigration in a way not in line with his party. he agreed with the late ted kennedy and late john mccain. he believed in amnesty as ronald reagan did. the republican party is accident phobic. they will willing to move humans around like pieces on a game board as political pawns and symbols. >> these are human beings. there are men, women and children there. now we're getting closer to the midterm elections, you will see more of this politicking on the part of public officials. it's very unfortunate ron desantis and others are going to then use the immigration issue and the border security issue, which is a very important one. there's no easy solution to it. however, what you shouldn't do is to use these human beings in this politicking they're getting

into. therefore, i'm just really pleased to see that the people on martha's vineyard welcomed these people and tried to make sure that as difficult as the situation this is for them, that they're going to try to make them comfortable and show them that the united states is a welcoming country. despite what ron desantis or others do, there are communities that are going to try to do everything possible to stay true to our values as a country that welcomes immigrants, that welcomes those who are not as fortunate as we are. >> what is the solution when you have governors of states like florida and texas, not interested in being part of the solution, but playing politics with this issue? >> this is where i think president biden has tried to do what a president is supposed to be doing, which is to recognize that the federal government has certain rights and authorities, but also the states. the ones that are receiving these individuals that are coming across the border. it has to be a balance of ensuring laws are followed but to also make sure people who present themselves at the border

and risk their lives coming across are not going to be abused and mishandled. therefore, i think it's important that president biden, just like he did with the rail strike, is to engage. i think that's what the white house administration is doing to make sure there's this federal government interaction with the state and local authorities so we can push politics out of this. take care of it in a way that protects national security and our homeland security but at the same time shows compassion and empathy and values that the united states is known for. >> is it illegal to do what they're doing? >> i think it is. it's sickening, right, on a couple levels. especially the kind of pride at it. >> pompeo was laughing about it. >> right. they were making jokes about it. it's sickening in their disregard for two classes of populations. the 50 migrants and, of course, the very over stressed small winter population of martha's

vineyard. there's a law, a criminal law that makes it a crime. it's used for people who are trying to take them to safety. i think what ought to happen here -- i don't know. they ought to have -- bring a civil action to enjoin desantis and enjoin anyone else from messing with what is a quintessential -- it's a tough problem, deep thicket. but it's a federal program. it's a program for the federal government. they are mucking around in this way to score political points besides being grotesque is also against the law. it would be a hard law to make stick. you are not going to bring a criminal action against desantis. but i think a civil action to enjoin as far as i can see ought to work. >> myles, you were the chief of staff for the department of homeland security. i remember the day that

propubica broke the sound of toddlers wailing. images broke of children in cages from the trump era, department of homeland security. it seemed at that moment that the cruelty of the republican vision for how we treat human beings who come here from other countries -- laura bush spoke out, other former normal republicans spoke out about the inhumanity. it feels like desantis and abbott took a page from that and went deeper down the hole into the muck. do you feel any culpability for what the trump era department of homeland security put in motion? >> well, i mean, as you know, the really very sick bs i saw on immigration is what i cited when i resigned from the

administration and left. i think those are, frankly, some of the most grotesque policies of that time period. some of the people who are the architects of them at the white house are now people who have, we know, advised some of these governors on these tactics. they should be held accountable for that. i think that using migrants as pawns here is exceptionally twisted. i would agree with john and harry on that point. i'm not even so sure -- i'm not a lawyer like harry is. i'm not so sure there's not other hooks for the government to use against these two governors. i will give you an example. before i quit, trump asked us to do basically this. he asked the department of homeland security to go bus and dump, in his words, bus and dump migrants from the border into democratic cities, in particular he wanted us to pick out the murderers and drug dealers, violent ones and really put

those in places. we went to our general counsel's office to find every way to tell them that was illegal. we got enough options to go back and say, i put all of the senior staff on an email and said, this is illegal. now tell me you want to do it. there was crickets on the chain. i suspect the administration and hopefully the department of homeland security are looking at ways, whether human trafficking laws or something else, to hold the governors accountable. do we have an immigration crisis? of course. there's a crisis at the border. it's not joe biden's fault. that's congress's fault. congress needs to fix this. we need a human immigration policy, like george w. bush was trying to pursue. we need a compromise. that's the only way we're going to get this done. in the meantime, screwing with people's lives after they have come off a dangerous journey is just as bad as anything trump did. it goes to the top of grotesque behavior. >> basil and myles, i appreciate your candor and reflection at

the trump era inner workings. basil, this is something that has bedevilled democratic and republican administrations for decades. the problem as myles said lies in the congress -- not even gridlock. refusal to acknowledge and deal with the problem, it lies in the complicated nature of the problem itself. that said, there isn't time for us to get our ducks in a row while children are pushed on -- there's something so apocalyptic about small children being loaded on to planes and lied to and flown all over. the terror and lack of empathy for what these human beings go through feels like another indication of sort of the cancer in right wing politics at this hour. >> yeah. you know, i have to say this. it's despicable. it's inhumane. for those that don't know, particularly in the case of

governor desantis, it's actually tied, connected to some very racist history, because in the early '60s, and the backlash of borders to integrate the south, you had freedom riders going south, civil rights advocates going south. there was a backlash. southern segregationists engaged in reverse freedom rides and sent african americans families, children, to northern cities, including near the home of jfk, dropped them off with the same promise, they would have jobs and opportunities. they had nothing. they were dropped off in the middle of a place they didn't know among people they do not know. the fact that there's this sad connection with these two incidents suggests that this

deplorable behavior is spiteful. when anyone says, make america great again, we know exactly the time, the place and the behavior that they are referring to. as we try to prosecute trump and trumpism, this is how far it extends and perhaps even further. where are those sanctuary congregations, not just cities, because we know they are receiving a lot of these individuals and these families, but where are the sanctuary congregations that we saw in the '80s when the central americans were coming here? those christian conservatives, evangelicals were embracing them then. where are they now? where are people like desantis and abbott? they shouldn't hold office. one of them running for a higher office. >> myles, i was thinking as i read this story as it came

across the wire last night about just how dangerous to other human beings the desantis/abbott primary is going to be. >> yeah. you really gotta think, nicole, that -- you said this at the time. john said this. harry said this. basil said this. we're talking about human lives here. politics has gotten so corrosive now that we have totally taken the human element out. these decisions are being made without regard to the fact that these are children and their parents and they are vulnerable populations. it's important to note, that didn't start with desantis and abbott. right? a lot of this behavior started in the trump administration. when i said at one point -- i think it was on your show -- the cruelty is the point, that's what they are carrying forward. with their policies.

i think we all hoped in 2020 that we would put a stake in the heart of trumpism. these guys are keeping it alive. they are the new zombies of trumpism. the cruelty is the point for them. they want to create some sort of deterrence by mucking about with these people's lives. what i would like to see is people quit their administrations and speak out, like during the trump administration. where are the people in florida who know this is wrong? where are the people in texas who know this is wrong and can point out the ways it's being implemented against state law or in contravention of the good conscience of these people who became public servants? i hope we see that soon, in addition to the federal government finding ways to shut this down. we also should see congress pick up its efforts to find a good solution to the border security crisis, but also the humanitarian crisis, the

facilities down at the border are not good facilities, they're not welcoming. we do not look like a shining city on a hill when people come here. they feel like they're in concrete bunkers when they arrive. this is not what america should look like. it's time for us to wake up and do something about it. >> no one is going anywhere. when we come back, there are new developments across those myriad investigations into the twice impeached disgraced ex-president and his inner most circle. they fear the justice department's investigation may be more expensive than has been publically known prior to this week. stunning new reporting from our friends peter baker and susan glosser. they are out with a new book. it says john kelly actually purchased and consulted a book that concluded the ex-president was psychologically unfit for the job he held. the book says kelly used the book as a guide for how to deal with his boss.

later, ukraine's counteroffensive is pushing russians out of the country. it's revealing new depths russian brutality. they face a dire situation. we continue after a quick break. stay with us. ick break. stay with us ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection.

it's one pill, once a day, that's effective without topical steroids. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. plus, they felt fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. we lost about everything trying to pay for prescriptions. we spent our whole pension but couldn't keep up. so my husband just stopped taking his medicine. and then he had a stroke. i can't get back what i lost,

but thanks to aarp, a new law will protect seniors with a cap on their prescription costs. that could have changed everything for us. i'm just grateful that no one will have to face the terrible choices that we did millions have made the switch from the big three t to the best kept secret ine wireless: xfinity mobile. that means millions are saving hundreds a year with the fastest mobile service. and now, introducing the best price for two lines of unlimited. just $30 per line. there are millions of happy campers out there. and this is the perfect time to join them... with the best mobile price for two lines of unlimited. take the xfinity mobile savings challenge and see how much you can save. switch to xfinity mobile today.

there's new reporting today that tells us how trump world is feeling about all the latest investigative developments. new ones every single day. including today. across multiple serious criminal investigations involving the

ex-president's conduct. with 40 plus doj subpoenas issues to trump's inner circle this week. a source telling nbc news that his former chief of staff, mark meadows is complying with the subpoena. trump's allies and aides have been shaken and advisers fear the doj probe is more expansive than publically known because, quote, every day feels like something else is piling on, they say. it comes as we witness what appears to be new momentum from the january 6 committee this week as they round out their investigation. today, in georgia, that fulton county district attorney probe and leader is saying that her team has received allegations that serious crimes were committed that could lead to prison sentences. we're back with our panel. harry, you read through the

culmination of what is now just 18 months of a non-barr-led justice department and of a congressional -- not even bipartisan effort but a democrat-led effort with two republicans participating, it's remarkable what they churned up. but from the other sort of purge, you look at how bad it really was. it exceeds how bad we thought it was watching from the outside for four years. >> i think that's right. the book speaks to this as well. there was rot in d.c. it was especially in pockets that were controlling. people that we really haven't even heard of or only the biggest doj insiders were picking up the phone and calling shots that were very, frankly, political, the exact antithesis of what doj was supposed to be

do doing. the rank and file were in a kind of -- were demoralized. they were hinting at it. we now understand, you go to doj for justice without fear and favor and it was all about fear and favor. >> harry is talking about the book where he names names. he talks about bill barr's corruption. he names the names. it's interesting to examine the advanced nature of the mar-a-lago criminal probe and the fact that trump committed brazen acts of obstruction. it seems to be almost a relic of his conduct while barr was there to protect him. >> yeah. i think it's clear that donald trump has always felt as though he didn't have to follow the rules or the laws. before he got into the white

house as well as when he was there and afterwards. it's not surprising that he decided to take these documents to mar-a-lago believing they were his. as you said, it's a blatant disregard and reckless disregard, not just for the rule of law, but also for our national security. the fact that he left unsecured for 19 months or so some of the nation's most precious and highly sensitive secrets, possibly putting human lives at risk, revealing to our adversaries our capabilities as well as possible weaknesses, these are the things that i think as you pointed out in the beginning, he is twice empeach -- impeached, i think it permeated throughout the administration. having someone like bill barr who trump was hoping would protect him from these types of legal jeopardy issues, i think it reveals -- i'm glad that jeff

has come out and is revealing and peeling back the onion, just how corruption it was during this period of our history that was so critical, i think, to our nation. >> i remember your testimony about russia's attack on the election and the trump team's knowledge or acquiescence to a shared mission, which is what mueller found, a shared mission if not evidence of coordination. you now have in the mar-a-lago documents that have been unsealed very clear evidence that even if trump -- let's give him the most generous read. even if he unwittingly took hundreds of the most sensitive intelligence documented created by our documents, human intelligence, things that aren't supposed to leave the

originator. the government went in to get what wasn't turned over. even then, there were lies told by trump's team. if you have to offer the same sort of analysis of hord inghoa state secrets, where do you come down? >> it was intentional. he knew he shouldn't have those documents. this absurd claim he declassified things is just absurd. there's no way. the fact that he brought them down there -- it does seem as though there was a fair amount of obstruction of justice as they were moved around. the national archives and department of justice were told untruths. you are talking about the investigation into russian interference in the election and bill barr's blatant mischaracterization what the mueller report found, the

mueller report found although there was collusion, there wasn't the evidence that he was able to uncover for criminal conspiracy. i would think criminal conspiracy here in terms of trying to avoid any type of understanding that these documents were in mar-a-lago is something that i think donald trump and others are vulnerable to potential future indictment. >> when you are talking about how you had to marshall the law to get people not to do inhumane things, that feels like a pattern. they had to argue that firing comey was not legal or would bring about legal consequences to try to get him to not to do that. of course, donald trump does it anyway. having to use the law and the fact that that didn't work with trump is such an interesting window into how he saw himself as above the law or as representing the law. what do you make when you read the government filings and watch the back and forth over the

mar-a-lago case? >> you framed it perfectly. it's why this thing has gone from, in my words, maga-gate to mega maga-gate. there were so many attempts as illegality. we will remember this week as the one they rolled into one giant conspiracy case. that's what this is. put aside the fact that in new york you have civil and i think criminal probes into the trump organization and what's going on in georgia. this doj is into fraudulent electors and fund-raising schemes and how to interrupt a peaceful transfer of power. then you add on top of it the separate case on the mar-a-lago documents, you realize these things have a central thread. it's donald trump. now, this week, i think all around washington and other states, you can hear the sound of iphones being run over by cars as some of his former aides

are probably thinking, shoot, i'm about to get ensnared in this. they will. this was likely a massive criminal conspiracy that has so many ends. i'm curious for the lawyers that are on this segment, how on earth do you do an investigation like this that has so many potential problems? >> mega maga-gate, i like that. the short answer is, you do it all. for a department being criticized not long ago for seemingly being behind the curve, they are -- it's really clear they're doing it all. every week, every day, we found out more today about mark meadows, maybe jeff clarke. >> yesterday, it was the pillow guy. every day. >> then you sift through -- it's a different kind of task than for the committee. because they do have -- they can think about a sprawling single mega maga-gate conspiracy.

more likely, they're looking at discreet crimes and figuring out what way to go. on that chose, the most stark is january 6 and any of the crimes that came from there or mar-a-lago, discreet, precedent setting. i think now pretty clear, for the reasons john and others say, totally righteous. so brazen. what he is saying in court, it's just a little document storage problem. the declassification, but he won't say it in court. it looks, on top of everything else, like justified because it embodies this central trump thinking that he can do anything and there's no such thing as a public interest, there's just the trump interest. >> everyone sticks around. when we come back, there's some off the wall, bonkers, insane new reporting about trump from our friends peter baker and susan glosser about how bad

things got at white house under the ex-president. as bad as we knew he was, he was actually worse. we will bring you that next. your mission: stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis and... take. it. on. with rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. it can stop irreversible joint damage. and rinvoq can leave skin clear or almost clear in psa. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur.

tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. ask your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. rinvoq. make it your mission. learn how abbvie could help you save on rinvoq. when it comes to giving your kitchen a fresh spin, rinvoq. make it your mission. with wayfair it's easy. so you can get an upgrade. change your scenery. and make it shine. so no matter what project your tackling, from refresh to remodel, wayfair's got everything you need to give your home a fresh spin. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪

what do we want delivered every month? clumping litter? salmon pate? love that for me. just choose the frequency and ship it! i feel so accomplished. now you can pet me. great prices on everything pets want. chewy. among my patients, i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend.

whatever your thing is that you put in the cup to get through something bonkers, pour. there are crazy new revelations today about how one of the most

senior former top trump white house officials tried to deal with a mentally unfit, mocha test taking and dangerously uninformed president. according to a new book reported out by peter baker and his wife, retired general john kelly while serving as the second chief of staff secretly sought guidance from a book in which 27 mental health professionals warn that donald trump was psychologically unfit, that his mental state was dangerous to our nation's well-being. i read this book. it's terrifying. they write in "the divider," this, among those who secretly bought a copy of the psychiatrist's book was none other than john kelly who sought help to understand the president's particular psychosis and consulted it while he was running the white house, which

he was known to refer to as, quote, crazy town. john kelly told others the book was a helpful guide to a president he came to consider a pathological liar, whose inflated ego was a sign of a deeply insecure person. we're back with everyone. i have no words. >> since you gave me permission to put something in my cup -- i think this is scary stuff. there's no question about it. for all of those times when people said we shouldn't be armchair psychologists, we knew what we were looking at. voters knew what they were seeing. they were seeing a president like they had never seen before, somebody that seemed unhinged, spiteful, vengeful. certainly not policy oriented. someone who, as myles said earlier, that was intent between him and some of his acolyte on

inflicting cruelty on the american people. i'm excited to read the text. to harry's point earlier, it's not just the president. there are people who we are hearing about that are testifying either by choice or by force. that means that there's so many others that are still within government that we do not know, people who are public facing, that may still be sort of carrying out the wishes, intentions and, i don't know -- of this man who clearly was and still is unfit for office. >> myles, i want to know from your experiences and what you saw, what john kelly viewed as a tripwire, to secretly purchase a book about a mentally ill president, to try to understand him from a psychiatric

perspective. >> i have the right cup to be sipping out of for this conversation. i will tell you this. probably the real answer is his first meeting, you know, with donald trump. i came in very early with john kelly. he didn't come into the administration and i didn't come into the administration because we thought it was going to be a fun ride or anyone was going to end with a better reputation. kelly was very clear-eyed from the beginning that donald trump, at best, at best was untested and unstable. he came very quickly to the realization that donald trump was unfit for office. i mean, i remember as early as june of the president's first year, members of the cabinet were talking about the 25th amendment. that doesn't necessarily mean they were sitting in a dim basement planning to do it. but that term, 25th amendment, was coming out of their mouths in donald trump's first summer

in office. i'm sure it was whispered in the spring in times that i wasn't present. that gives you an indicator of just after a few months of exposure to the man how worried his lieutenants were about his mental state. that's because he couldn't -- it's all the things we know. he couldn't focus in meetings. we were told that ten-page memos had to be one-page memos. they had to be pictures. they had to be cartoons. you think i'm being facetious. i'm not. that's what we had to do. at one point, there were things we had people mock up computer-generated cartoons of things that we were talking about to help him understand. when you are a john kelly and you are secretary of homeland security and you see that, your immediate reaction is, the white house is in total turmoil. did john kelly want to be white house chief of staff? i don't think he did. who would have wanted that job at the time? in my mind, it was a good man jumping on a grenade thrown by a

bad man. he hoped he could stabilize the white house. unfortunately, he found that the only way do that is the president himself wanting to be more disciplined. that was never going to happen. >> myles, basil, harry, it's been real. thank you very much for being here today.

you see, son, with a little elbow grease, you can do just about anything. thanks, dad. that's right, robert. and it's never too early to learn you could save with america's number one motorcycle insurer. that's right, jamie. but it's not just about savings. it's about the friends we make along the way. you said it, flo. and don't forget to floss before you brush. your gums will thank you. -that's right, dr. gary. -jamie? sorry, i had another thought so i got back in line. what was it? [ sighs ] i can't remember. when hurting feet make you want to stop, it's dr. scholl's time. our custom fit orthotics use foot mapping technology to give you personalized support, for all-day pain relief. find your relief in store or online.

(woman vo) sailing a great river past extraordinary landscapes into the heart of iconic cities is a journey for the curious traveler, one that many have yet to discover. exploring with viking brings you closer to the world, to the history, the culture, the flavors, a serene river voyage on an elegant viking longship. learn more at viking.com

as ukrainian forces make stunning advances reclaiming the entirety of the kharkiv region, there's new evidence of russian atrocities committed against the ukrainian people. residens of liberated towns describing the horrors of the russian occupation. >> it's a reminder of the danger and uncertainty the ukrainian people still face every single day as the war nears the

seven-month mark. it's only expected to get worse for them, the civilians, as winter draws closer. her portrait of zelenskyy has raised $125,000, all going to relief efforts for ukraine. thank you so much for sitting time with us. the doctor can get anyone and everyone marshalled to row in

the same direction to support this cause. i want to know how he persuaded you. i know you do a lot for a lot of people. why did this rise to the top for you? >> partly because i worked with him for many, many years and have total faith in what he is planning to do next. also, i like the title, all of the words ukraine, children, action and project. that drew me. i think people have to choose whatever draws them particularly. the causes are endless in the world. >> yeah. yeah. i think for -- i'm involved, too. i try not to get myself -- i try to cover things as best i can. this is the rare exception. for me, you keep going over there and getting on the ground and coming back and giving us your firsthand knowledge of what the suffering is really like for these kids. i want to ask you this question.

it seems to me that what we're seeing in the ukrainian advances is that war traumatizes kids, whether you are winning or losing. for some reason, this story about military success is so hopeful for ukraine, but i imagine it's just as painful for kids whether their parents are away at war and winning or losing, they're still away. that trauma still exists. tell me how you see the good news for ukraine on the military front but the ongoing trauma for children and refugees. >> sure. the reality is that there are a number of things going on simultaneously. obviously, the progress theare . win or lose, whenever this conflict is over -- we hope it's soon -- the trauma done to so many millions of children in ukraine is incredible.

it's not going to disappear because the war is over. these children will not go back to their homes and communities because they have been destroyed. i have a feeling the have a fee will win the war, but the longer war of dealing with the humanitarian crisis will persist, and especially for children. then we'll have to be dealing with recovery, and that's going to take a long time and a lot of money as well. >> for president zelenskyy, advocacy and the attention that people like herself bring to the war in ukraine is of the utmost importance. i think he more than any world leader past or present has the power of people -- if you could just tell me what you see in president zelenskyy's efforts to

sort of the meld public safety and culture and all those soft powers to have support for this very brutal war. >> yeah. first of all, it keeps coming to my mind that the russian soldier kids also need help, and probably irwin will be involved in that as well. zelenskyy is probably the first -- is the first nonviolent pacifist painting i've ever done. i've never painted a war hero. but there's something about him. . clearly he came from nowhere and became this leader the people love. i have to portrait, by the way, up by the road. it's not quite a billboard, but it's pretty big, and people honk when they go by. it gives them something to

relate to and be pleased about. as for himself i just hope he lives long enough i can dance with him when this whole thing is over. >> i think that seems highly likely. he seems like someone who when he's not a were time leader is a well rounded person. irwin, i'll give you the last word tell us what we can do as people who care. >> thanks, nicole. the problem is for these children, there are two big challenges facing them. first of all, they're not back in school yet, many of them, and this is a disaster long-term. but the other thing is that they have this profound psychological trauma that needs to be identified and treated, and we're doing a lot on that score, on both scores, really, to make sure children are getting the support they need to come out of this with some sense of hope and optimism, which i think is possible. and people can help us, they can support the ukraine childrens

after action project, which is ukrainecap.org, and that would be greatly appreciated. we're doing a lot already and we're going to be doing more. thanks to people like joan and you nicole, we're not going to let the attention leave the front of our minds. so thanks so much for you and for joan, of course. >> victor irwin and joan baez, thank you so much. what a treat. thank you for spending time with us today. quick break for us. thank you. we'll be right back. for us thank you. we'll be right back. when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis persists... put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when uc got unpredictable,... i got rapid symptom relief with rinvoq. check. when uc held me back... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq.

check. and when uc got the upper hand... rinvoq helped visibly repair the colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief. lasting, steroid-free remission. and a chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check. check. and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older... with at least 1 heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq... as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. put uc in check and keep it there, with rinvoq. ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq. and learn how abbvie could help you save. what's it going to take for the world to reach net-zero emissions? it's going to take investing in some things you've heard of and some you'd never expect. it's going to take funding innovation in renewable energy, helping reduce carbon footprints, and big bets on environmentally conscious construction.

citi has committed 1 trillion dollars in sustainable financing to help build a better future. because to reach net zero, it's going to take everything. ♪ ♪ i brought in ensure max protein becauswith 30 gramst zero, it's goinof protein.verything. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uhh - here, i'll take that woo hoo ensure max protein, with 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar and now in two new flavors (♪ ♪) ♪♪ whenever heartburn strikes get fast relief with tums. it's time to love food back. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums ♪

oooh we're firing up the chewy app... what do we want delivered every month. hmm. clumping litter? resounding yes. salmon pate, love that for me. and some of those catnip toys. just choose the frequency... and ship it. we did it. i feel so accomplished. now you can pet me. ok that's enough you're literally so annoying. just kidding love you. great prices on everything pets want. chewy. >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, let safelite come to you. ♪ pop rock music ♪ >> tech: my customer enjoys time with her family. so when her windshield got a crack... she scheduled with safelite in just a few clicks. we came to her house... ...replaced the windshield... and installed new wipers. that's service on her time. >> grandkid: here you go! >> tech: wow, thank you! >> customer and grandkids: bye! >> tech: bye! don't wait, schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

some news breaking earlier today -- president joe biden will meet with the families of wn superstar brittney griner and paul whalen. the meeting is it to take place tomorrow. it's the first meeting between the president and family member who is spoke via phone with the president in july. the president will meet with the families separately, meeting with griner's wife and whalen's sister. griner has been detained for seven months. whalen nearly four years. the administration says the president will discuss his continuing efforts to bring them home. we'll be right back. ht back. for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ a monster was attacking but the team remained calm.

because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose. your mission: stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis and... take. it. on. with rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. it can stop irreversible joint damage. and rinvoq can leave skin clear or almost clear in psa. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant.

ask your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. rinvoq. make it your mission. learn how abbvie could help you save on rinvoq. as a business owner, rinvoq. make it your mission. your bottom line is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. ™

thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with army arm starts right now. >> welcome to "the beat," everyone. i am ari melber. we have a lot going on. there is a shift in trump world as one of the people who was loyal to trump to the end on the big lie and the insurrection, the former chief of staff, mark meadows, you may remember, he threaded the needle with the january 6th committee. he did not get indicted. he did not testify. but now he's talking. reportedly complying with the doj because he was hit with a criminal subpoena. we have more on that, but we begin with something on the line between policy,