at a special summit convened at the white house to address the rising hate and violence in america today. we wanted to give you that update and final word. thanks for watching "the beat." "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. tonight, on "the reidout" -- >> they are begging for more diversity. why not send migrants there? in huge numbers. let's start with 300,000 and move up from there. >> tucker asks and republican governors deliver. exploiting and abusing human beings, men, women and children, to score cheap political points on immigration. how do these people sleep at night, let alone square this dehumanizing behavior with their supposed christianity? >> plus, new tonight, the january 6th committee releases walkie-talkie recordings from the oath keepers inside the capitol on january 6th. >> we are in the main dome right

now. we are rocking it. they're throwing grenades, shooting people with paint balls but we're in here. >> be safe, be safe. god bless and godspeed and keep going. >> get it, jess. do your [ bleep ]. this is what we [ bleep ] lived up for. everything we trained for. >> we begin tonight on the start of hispanic heritage month, when americans are supposed to celebrate the culture and contributions of americans with ancestors from mexico, the caribbean, and central and south america. it was president lint lyndon johnson who created hispanic heritage week after appealing the most xenophobic anti-immigration law. today, while many americans are honoring those hispanic contributions, last night, florida governor ron desantis had a different idea. proudly taking credit for sending two plane loads of latino migrants to martha's vineyard in massachusetts.

roughly 50 venezuelan and colombian migrants, many fleeing venezuela's maduro regime, said they had gun from san francisco, texas, where they were offered flights to boston, not martha's vineyards, roughly 100 miles away. they had no idea what was really going on. >> some of them have been through really horrific things. so they need a break. and they need help. >> this is part of a plan that desantis hatched back in 2021 where he created a new program to transport so-called unauthorized aliens out of florida. and please allow me for a moment to take a moment of former sunday school teacher privilege. because this tactic by supposedly christian right politics like desantis, doug ducey, and greg abbott of texas is about as unchristian as it gets.

deuteronomy 27:19, which marco rubio has yet to share with us today, states cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless. the foreigner resizing among you must be treated as your native born. love them as yourself for you were foreigners in egypt. there's also as you have done to the least of these, you have done to me, that part from the new testament. fox news was, of course, given the exclusive heads-up and broadcast footage throughout the night. and that is not the only exclusive that they scored. abbott shipped two bus loads of migrants to the washington residence of vice president kamala harris, where a fox camera was waiting. abbott began busing thousands of migrants to washington back in april. ducy has been doing it since may. and this should come as no surprise to you that all three have oversized political

ambitions, and fox news. well, they were in hog heaven. >> everybody basically that you know on the left has a home there. do you think they're going to be embracing their new neighbors? >> you know, these are all sanctuary cities until they're in their sanctuary. i doubt they'll embrace them. >> not only a good political move, it's actually making those democrat governors and mayors actually start to be border states. >> what's your view of this? >> you know, i actually get a kick out of it watching these liberal mayors throw their hands up and say we can't handal it. >> for the record, massachusetts has a republican governor, and also, no officials on martha's vineyards threw up their hands and said we can't handle it. local authorities rushed in to help feed these people and find them temporary housing, and today, community leaders are working to get immigration lawyers to the island. it turns out that the place to

find christian love is in the supposedly godless woke scape of martha's vineyard, where actually decent people, jews, muslims, people with no religion at all, stepped up, while for desantis, the cruelty is the point. >> you have folks that are inclined to think florida is a good place. our message to them is we are not a sanctuary state. and it's better to be able to go to a sanctuary jurisdiction, and we'll help facilitate that transport for you to be able to go to greener pastures. >> joining me now is massachusetts state representative dylan fernandez, who represents martha's vineyard, a staff writer for the miami herald, and the cofounder and director of the venezuelan american caucus. thank you all for being here. i do want to start with you, representative fernandez. what is the state of play right now on martha's vineyard for these families, these human

beings, men, women, and children? >> sure, this is an island that sprang into action to get everyone the beds, the shelter, the food, clothing, water, medical resources that they needed as soon as they arrived. they're going to be on island again here tonight and we have all the resources for them. the island community actually pulled together a spanish mass that folks were just attending. and we're a community that embraces diversity. we're an incredibly diverse community here. and we're going to treat these people with respect and dignity that all human beings deserve. >> and were people telling their stories and have you been able to learn, these are reportedly mostly venezuelan and colombian migrants. some of which i have heard were fleeing the maduro regime. have you heard any of those stories yourself? >> yeah. some of these have been

harrowing stories of people traveling two months just to get to the border. and then, you know, they were shipped here, rounded up and shipped here on a lie. these people were told that they were going to, you know, i'm told to new york, to go to their -- and other cities around the country. some were told they were going to their immigration meetings. others were told, a lot of them were told they would once they arrived here, they would get -- they would immediately get jobs and shelter. and just, you know, think about that. think about kind of the depravity of lying to these people. and look, the people here, these are human beings. these are children, these are families. these are women. and for the past weeks, days now, the governor of florida has not been serving the people of florida and the issues there, but has been working to hatch a secretive, you know, political

plot to use people for his own political pawns, women and children, just so he could get on tucker carlson and fox news. that is profoundly inhumane. >> it's twisted. he's trying to win the fox news primary, as are ducy and abbott. let me go to you, david. it isn't new, this plan. back in the 1960s, segregationist governors did the exact same thing. they would take black folks during the freedom rides and as their response and retaliation for the freedom rides, i'll read what npr wrote about this. fuming over the civil rights movement, southern segregationists had concoced a way to retaliation. in 1962, they tricked about 200 african americans from the south into moving north. they would drop them off claiming they were going to get jobs and housing and when they got there, they were abandoned them there just to sort of own the libs. their version of it. so basically, you have these

southern governors and one western governor playing the same role. what was the calculation from your reporting of this governor in doing that? because recently, didn't his lieutenant governor also mess up and claim they were going to do the same thing to cubans only to have to take it back? >> right. so the calculation, of course, is he's running for re-election. he's running for presumably to be president of the united states, so he's really pitching this specifically to his base. the right-wing base. none of this is new. we knew this was a program the legislature had approved and they hadn't just got it up and running. but i think most people thought it was going to be by bus. i think it's still a little confusing. his office has yet to release details about how much it cost. how they went about doing it,

why people were taken from texas. at least one flight stopped in florida first and went on to the new england area. there's still -- we still don't have a lot of answers as to the mechanics of this and how it played out, but certainly here in miami-dade county, which is a largely hispanic community and, you know, largely democratic, although it changed a lot in recent years, people are watching this closely. they're talking about it, and many people are outraged. >> absolutely. you're very kind person for not getting me for mispronouncing your name. thank you for being such a gentleman. i do want to bring in daily ferro. this is a very large community, the largest growing hispanic cohort, texas, california, and florida. i used to live in south florida.

i remember there were so many venezuelan nationals living there. this seems to me to be an incredibly stupid move on desantis' part, because he is offending a growing, vibrant, very large and vocal community, and again, he claims he's against regimes like the maduro regime, and then he does this to people who are fleeing it. your thoughts? >> first of all, thank you so much for having me. i live there, actually. governor ron desantis is using us as a political pawn, as a prop for his -- he is trying to galvanize a very extremist base in order to get his presidential nomination on the republican

party. and i think that thinking about venezuela about immigrants, about cubans, thinking about them as human beings is not something that's on his agenda right now. i think we are just some kind of little chips on a game that he's playing. and we are not qualified as human beings anymore. he has been very vocal against maduro regime because he has called maduro socialist, authoritarian, cruel, criminal, but, and this is the little tiny detail, is that 6.5 million venezuelans fled the country, running away from that cruel

socialist and criminal regime. and we need help. and the venezuelans that are already here, their immense majority are people who just want to work, and these people who have been through so much, unimaginable pain and suffering. and what, he only support us whenever he call maduro cruel and criminal, but the people that are suffering because of maduro, he just despises us. >> it's clear. let me play another -- child of immigrants, i'm one of one as well, so it offends me as a daughter of immigrants. i think it offends anyone who understands what the american story is supposed to be. here is karine jean-pierre, the first haitian american woman to be press secretary of the president of the united states, what she said today. >> there is a legal way of doing

this. and for managing migrants. republican governors interfering in that process and using migrants as political pawns is shameful. is reckless. and just plain wrong. and remember, these are people who are fleeing communism, who are fleeing hardship. >> david, is there any conversation that's being had through your reporting about whether or not this is a crime? because this has been called trafficking. there's a lot of chatter now that what these governors, including ron desantis have done, is to have trafficked these families. >> right, and that's something that a lot of people are asking the department of justice to look into, including california governor gavin newsom, and democratic -- democrat nicky fried who was our acroculture commissioner. it's such an unusual thing that happened and we still know so few details about the mechanics

of how this happened, but desantis and his people are pretty smart and i'm sure they ran through different scenarios in hashing out this plan. >> the bottom line, the message to "the new york times" and others hailing this guy as the solution to trumpism and maga, if this is what you guys think is the moderate version of republicanism, i don't know what that means anymore. i done think that word has meaning and words should have meaning. it's cruel and sick and sadistic. that is me saying that. i will not put that on any of my guests. thank you all three very much. >> all right, coming up on "the reidout," breaking news on the mar-a-lago special master. stay with us. such tree-mendous views. i'm at a moss for words. when a cough tries to steal dad's punchlines, he takes robitussin naturals powered by 100% drug-free ingredients. are you gonna leaf me hanging? soothe your cough naturally. the chef's chicken sandwiches at panera, freshly prepared with clean ingredients... spark an explosion of the senses.

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breaking news tonight in the many, many investigations into all things trump. judge aileen cannon has denied a justice department request to carve out access to 100 classified documents seized in a search of trump's florida resort home. and has appointed one of the trump legal team's picks, judge raymond deary as special master. it comes as also tonight the house january 6th committee has released damning new evidence that it received in the form of walkie-talkie communications between members of the oath keepers inside the capitol that day discussing violence against lawmakers. >> cnn just said they evacuated

all members of congress into a safety room. >> there's no safe place in the united states for any of these [ bleep ] right now. let me tell you. >> trump just tweeted, please support our capitol police. they are on our side. do not harm them. >> that's saying a lot, but what he didn't say, he didn't say not to do anything to the congressmen. >> it's yet another signal that the committee is gaining momentum in its ongoing investigation. after committee chair bennie thompson said the committee has received new information from the u.s. secret service. thousands of exhibits including text messages, email communications and radio traffic. the texts do not, however, include missing texts from specific individuals on the 6th that were permanently deleted, weirdly enough. joining me now is tally weinstein, legal analyst and former state and federal prosecutor who clerked for then judge merrick garland and curt

bar dello, adviser to the dnc and dccc. i'm going to go to you first. your thoughts on this decision by the judge. our understanding is that judge deary is seems to be a straight up, stand-up guy. he was a fisa court judge, so he has this security clearance you would need. what do you make of her denial of the request to have access to those records? >> well, joy, you're right. judge deary is a very fine judge. i actually appeared before him many times when i was a prosecutor in the eastern district of new york. but the assignment that he has been given makes no sense because the issues that judge cannon has passed on to him to resolve are really defenses that are supposed to be adjudicated after somebody is indicted. imagine that the government had a search warrant to seize illegal drugs from donald trump's residence.

right? it had probable cause to believe he was storing cocaine and it took some bricks of white powder and he said oh, no, that's not what you think it is. those are actually baby powder. that's not something that he could say before he was indicted and it's not something you would have a special master conduct a mini trial about at this juncture. that's something he could bring up later, he could say, well, the drug testing the government does isn't effective, and that's what he's saying here. these documents you're telling me are contraband that i was not supposed to have, i think i was supposed to have them. for example, because i declassified them. and of course, he wants to do this, and she has allowed him to do this, because he would rather push off that indictment should it come as far as possible, and joy, i'll just say this. i don't know why she is passing on her responsibilities to another judge. if she thinks this stuff is supposed to be decided now, then i would have expected her to

take on that responsibility herself. >> well, i mean, kurt, the occam's razor answer is she's a politician, she's there to protect trump. it's hard to get around it. the consistency can be the hobgoblin sometimes, but in the case of lawyers, when lawyers all say the same thing, you can basically believe it. because every single legal expert we have put on, everyone has said it. this judge is doing something that is completely unorthodox. no one has ever heard of this idea. so how do we get around the idea that this lady is not just in the tank for trump? >> well, i think that we're seeing without question that there is an implicit bias and corruptive element here on the bench that's very troubling and disturbing, and it really illustrates the consequence of when you let these people take power, the cronies that they install, there can be very serious repercussions that we had not even thought of.

when donald trump was president, i don't think anyone thought we would get to the point where a judge he appointed would be in charge of sensitive top secret information being stored at mar-a-lago. that's why this is so important that we don't take elections for granted, that we actually pay attention to the type of judges being appointed and make sure republicans aren't in a position to do this, because it's very clear the rule of law means absolutely nothing to these people. they do not care about our constitution. they do not care about what's lawful. they just care about power and doing everything they can using all of the instruments of power to help cover it up or let them get away with it blatantly, and that's what we're seeing from the bench, and it's incredibly disturbing. >> what are the potential -- what can the government, what can the doj do at this point? we know there were leave-behinds. jeffrey clark who was one of the leave-behinds is under serious investigation.

he was one of those late, try to shove him into the attorney general's office. you now have this judge who is also a leave-behind. someone trump nominated after he lost the election. it feels like she's doing his bidding. does the government have any recourse or are they stuck with this situation? >> well, the government told judge cannon last week that if she did not grant them that carve-out that they asked for by today, that they would make an emergency appeal to the 11th circuit, and i imagine that that thing is written and we're going to see that motion really soon because they have maintained throughout that this is a state of emergency, and you know, another really troubling thing in this opinion that we are processing right now, it just came out a few minutes ago, is they said look, we cannot do a security assessment because of your order, because it's intertwined with the criminal investigation, and she said basically, yes, you can.

>> wow. you know, just to move on for a second because we do have this other piece of breaking news. this new audio from the proud boys and oath keepers communicating. i can imagine that despite the fact that definitely he has a judge that is very helpful to him, the trump team has to be concerned because there's more and more documentary evidence of violence intended towards congressmen. what do you imagine they're thinking now with bannon under guard now because he's under indictment in the state of new york, with all of these potential charges facing donald trump? what do you think is going on in their minds tonight? >> well, we recently even heard audio of donald trump talking about there potentially being grave consequences if he is indicted or if anything happens on a legal front. it's very clear that this entire orbit of people believes that violence is an acceptable form of protest in this country, that

when they don't get their way, when the voters reject their ideas or their candidates, that exercising violence against their political opponents is the way to do it. i was just at yesterday the official portrait unveiling of the late elijah cummings. it was held in the cannon caucus room where the january 6th committee actually do their hearings. and i think about all the times that elijah would sit there at the oversight committee where i used to work and say things like, we're better than this. he would be heartbroken that january 6th even happened. and even more heartbroken that so many of his former colleagues have tried to dismiss what happened that day, have tried to call it just another tourist day, have tried to exonerate donald trump and keep him from being held accountable. it goes to show the lengths to which these people will go to justify their venom and we have said this so many times on this show. january 6th was just the beginning for these people, and

they're telegraphing it every single day, that they intend to do more. >> elijah cummings is very much missed. he was a very, very good man, and one of the people he considered a friend and defended when he needed defending, mark meadows. >> thalia and kurt, thank you. >> coming up, an 11th hour tentative deal has been reached to avert a national railroad strike. transportation secretary pete buttigieg joins me next. vacatio. yeah, i'm going to live here. only to realize... what if i can't sell my place? don't worry. sell it directly to opendoor and we'll help you buy your next one. aww. get your free offer at opendoor.com for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are positive for acetylcholine receptor antibodies, it may feel like the world is moving without you. but the picture is changing, with vyvgart. in a clinical trial, participants achieved improved daily abilities with vyvgart added to their current treatment.

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you might not know it, but one of the most influential leaderoffs the american labor movement at the turn of the 20ths century was a woman in her 60s known as mother jones. yes, the magazine is named after her. she fought for workers across the country, including miners and textile workers and steel workers. demonstrating the power of labor. unions have ebbed and flowed over the past century, but we're currently seeing a resurgence from nurses to teachers to starbucks and google and amazon employees to rail workers. today's railroad workers are facing a similar battle. they currently face penalties for taking time off, even for an emergency. and labor groups say workers have been fired for going to routine doctor's appointments or family funerals. they had threatened to strike, starting on friday. which would have had a disastrous impact on the

economy. costing $2 billion a day. but a tentative deal has been reached to avoid that strike. employees will for the first time be able to take unpaid time off for medical care. they'll also get a 24% wage increase. this deal came together thanks to the direct involvement of joe biden, who ran for president the way he's always run for senator, as pro-labor and pro-union. "the washington post" reports that he was personally involved in the talks, calling into the negotiations and growing animated in recent days over the lack of scheduling flexibility for workers. expressing a mixture of confusion and anger that management was refusing to budge on that point. and joining me now is the secretary of transportation, pete buttigieg, and great to see you, secretary pete, and this is very, very good news for these workers. i know that marty walsh, the labor secretary, and yourself were involved in these negotiations too. how did this team and how did president biden help to get the two sides together, and what are

the contours of the deal? >> well, you're right. we were deeply involved. the president was personally engaged. secretary marty walsh convened the parties at the department of labor for the final stretch of negotiations. i was on the phone constantly, so was secretary vilsack, agriculture secretary, because rezauving this is so important to american farmers. i really believe it was the direct intervention of the president as well as all the other things the administration did that helped move this toward a deal before it was too late. the outlines of the deal include a significant pay increase for workers, about 24% cumulatively, and also as you mentioned, very important quality of life concessions that were very important for the unions and that they won at this bargaining table. t we're seeing really across the transportation sector is an attention not just to compensation but to quality of life issues. you have essential workers who don't have the kind of normal schedules that so many american workers can count on, don't have

the flexibility a lot of us would take for granted, whether we're talking about flight attendants, truck drivers, these union rail workers, they are focusing on that, and that was one of the key things that needed to be resolved in order to get to this deal that is now good news for workers and good news for railroads in general and of course very good news for the american economy that we didn't face a shutdown. >> absolutely. it's interesting. we were talking about this earlier when we talking about doing this segment and on the team call, it really does make a difference. i know you're a lover of history such as myself. i will class you as a fellow nerd. there's a lot that depends in these historical moments about who the president is. when it was ronald reagan t was bust the unions. when it's the civil rights movement, it mattered that it was kennedy and lyndon johnson who were open, and so a lot of people were like, don't march on them, and no, that's who you march on because those people are actually willing to talk. what kind of a difference do you think it made that biden, that

president biden, does have this history of being a pro-union guy and a trains guy. the trains guy thing seems like it's important too. >> that's right. you have a president who is passionate about making sure we have excellent rail in america, and a president who is proud to be the most pro-labor, pro-union president that we have had in modern times, perhaps ever. i think that led to a lot of credibility. especially when he was making these calls like last night around 9:00 in the evening. as the talks were already going into probably their 12th hour or so, calling on the parties to get to that solution and find that deal space. i think he's earned a lot of trust and a lot of credibility, and it comes from the heart. we saw it also yesterday when we were with united autoworkers at the detroit auto show. for him, the technology that's happening, the electric vehicle revolution, this is all about doing it in a way that makes sure workers can win. today, we were celebrating the administration's buy clean initiative. i was in detroit along with the

soon to be national climate adviser in the white house and our general services administrator, with steel workers, and they have participated in what's called the blue-green alliance. a pro climate labor movement that is insisting that we break this old idea that there's a choice between climate action or good jobs. and instead make sure that we're creating good paying union jobs through what we do on climate. it's a through line through everything we're doing in the administration that served the president of the administration well in terms of credibility at this absolutely critical juncture for our economy that we went through last night and into the wee hours of this morning. also as something that is part of what we're doing every single day. >> and we know this is a tentative deal. is there a definitive date when this is solid? what is the timeline for it to go from being a tentative deal to a deal deal? >> that plays out over the next few weeks as it goes to the members for ratification. as that process plays out, you

now have a deal that has the backing of the unions that fought so hard for these concessions and these improvements, and the railroad companies that were at the table negotiating this. and of course, the administration and a lot of others who are eager to see this succeed. so we'll follow that process closely, but again, just so thankful for everybody who got us to this point, and i'm thankful and proud to serve under the leadership of a president who was willing to roll up his sleeves and get directly, permy involved to get this thing over the finish line. >> i have one question, it's related but not exactly in the same exact vein. one of the things the president has talked about in terms of the initiatives to get more electric out. he was talking about getting in electric vehicles and that sort of thing. what's the timeline on rolling out more help for those of us who do have a hybrid or electric vehicle, because charging stations are kind of few and far between, and it's kind of hard to push that initiative if you

can't charge the thing. what is the timeline on getting more of that infrastructure out and what's the jobs picture going to look like for that? >> well, that's right. we need to get to where you can count on finding charging stations just as easily as you can a gas station when you're on a road trip. the good news is there are a lot of opportunity to charge at home or work for some americans, which you can't do when you're filling up with a gas card. a lot of folks in multifamily dwellings especially in lower income neighborhoods where it's not yet profit frbl companies to put in chargers, we have to take steps and make sure those are available and the same thing to make sure we have that full national network. this week we announced a big step on this. ahead of schedule, we were able to clear 35 of the states so far that have come to us with plans on how they're going to use this new federal funding through the president's infrastructure package to deploy those chargers. the vision is 500,000 chargers by the end of this decade across the country, and we know that won't happen on its own. we're working and partnering with the states to make it happen and that will make it

more convenient and accessible for everybody to take advantage of these evs. >> secretary buttigieg, i'm going to have you come back because i want to talk about electric buses and mass transit. thank you. appreciate you being here tonight. >> all right, blessed be the fruit. actress ann dowd, the menacing aunt lydia on the handmaid's tail is here to talk about the real life gilead, aka, post-dobbs america. under his eye. we'll be right back. wait. i got to sell the house! don't wait, just sell directly to opendoor. easy as pie. piece of cake. whichever. when life's doors open, we'll handle the house. ♪♪ here goes nothing. hey greg. um...hello? it's me, your heart! really? yes! recording an ekg in 30 seconds. tada! wow that was fast!

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the new season of the handmaid's tale has started streaming on hulu at a time where margaret atwood's vision is a real thing. when it comes to art imitating live, one karth really stands out. aunt lydia, gilead's fanatical menacing overseer making sure the handmaids obey the rules. it's a line of thinking that feels very familiar right now in the united states of gilead, aka, red america. aunt lydia mirrors what current members of the republican party believe as they implement draconian measures to control women and girls and mandate pregnancies. today, a near total abortion ban takes effect in indiana. as republicans fight to dismantle abortion from coast to coast. senator lindsey graham has introduced a nationwide ban on

abortions after 15 weeks. with the narrowest of exceptions for conditions, for situations that graham will never have to think about or endure. yesterday, at graham's press conference, a woman shared the story of her nonviable pregnancy and the excruciating loss that came with it. >> somebody like me who found out that they would have no life at 16 weeks. i did everything right, and at 16 weeks we found out that our son was likely not going to live. when he was born, he bled from every orifice in his body. you would be robbing that choice from women. what would you say? >> here's what i would say, the world pretty much has spoken on this issue. as to your particular case, there will be exceptions for life of the mother and rape and incest. but -- >> there are no exceptions in this bill. >> joining me now is ann dowd, the emmy award winning actress

who plays aunt lydia on hulu. welcome, welcome. and i wonder what you make of that, because you know, we say the cruelty is the point. adam serwer's brilliant line, but it's also the indifference. i was struck by he just couldn't wait for that lady to stop talking. he was like, i don't want to hear this. i don't care. what do umake of all this? >> it's disgusting. that's what i make of it. and honestly, watching that right now, how dare -- how dare he. acclaim himself a servant to the people. best i don't watch before i speak. as to handmaid's tale and the world we're in, let's be clear about one thing. what we do is make believe. when i go home at night, i know that no woman has been forced to be pregnant because of our show and stay pregnant.

what's happening in our country is appallingly different. because in our country, we have made a very blind and costly mistake. and just set aside for a moment if we can the nonnegotiable right of a but we are do they think abortions are going? away? abortions are going underground. and women will die. and children will be forced into this world without love, without a chance to believe in themselves, and the hope of life, which every single child deserves -- who is going to suffer? the poor. the disenfranchised. people of color. and how dare -- how dare -- they used the phrase pro-life. this is not pro-life. because, if you open your eyes, and look around, think of all the children without homes, without love, without care,

desperate for a chance, i haven't been familiar with the foster care system and the gift of my son, who is now my adopted son, and those lonely, desperate kids who have been let down -- don't you dare use the phrase pro-life. look after those who are on this earth in need of help. and frankly, don't use -- don't their hide behind god's word. because god would never put people in this circumstance. and the thing about lydia is that she is coming forward in our make believe world. and the walls are dropping. and she is looking and saying, wait a minute, what am i doing? what am i doing? i say, i am helping -- >> you know -- >> sorry -- please, sorry. >> no, i just love listening. it is so great for me to listen to your voice because i just know that that voice is a welcome to the show. i watched the show with one

hand over my eyes -- >> i hear you -- >> because it feels too real to me now -- >> i got you -- >> this is what margaret atwood said, in the los angeles times, about the make believe world that she created. she said, any totalitarianism always has views on who shall be allowed to have babies and what shall be done with the babies. it has been going on for a really long time. so, what you are saying is really true. i do want to play a clip and this is a clip, specifically, of aunt lydia, and this is an episode two, this is not a spoiler, anybody who hasn't seen, it put your fingers in years ago, law, law, law. -- >> it's a tragedy, of commander waterford's death. our good lord has found a way to grace us with opportunity. this is your moment to shine in the sunlight of the spirit, girls! a chance to impress pre-spread prospective commanders, to do

his good works, and to make yourselves truly worthy. oh, bless it be this day! >> what strikes me about aunt lydia is her fanaticism, her true belief in the system, but also the fact that you realize that she gains power from the system. and that is one of the reasons she seems to stick with it. what do you make of that kind of fanaticism? for me, it feels like it is what we are living through in real life, people are fanatics. ife,>> yeah, the desire for powr is remarkable. power over integrity is just -- you are really going to give it up and this supposed, i can't even say his name, really? he is worth that? no, he is not. lydia -- it depends, you know, if you read the testaments, the beginning of gilead is terrifying. and it is all about survival. now that is not how we look at

the handmaid's tale. handmaid's tale, lydia, grew up raised own shame, with a father, deeply, deeply religious, shamed by sex and everything else that goes with it. so, her walls are strong and they are tall and the alleyway is narrow. her belief in god, to her, is real. above everything else, it is real. what she learns in this season is to open her eyes and look and see what is really going on. now will she get to a place where she realizes her profound belief is based on something that is not real? it was produced from the opposite of god, which is to say, shame and cruelty and you don't count. we are not there yet for her. but she is moving forward. so, i would say to the fans,

hang on. i would. this is a shocking season. but boy, it is well thought out. and i'm just saying, hang in there. knocked bingeing, for mental health purposes -- but just hang in -- >> i can't, it's too hard. i can't do, it's too hard. >> -- joy -- >> the last question, exit question -- for you, and it has to be a little triggering it'll traumatizing to be in this role and be in this world as an artist -- do you come away from just experiencing this world yourself, fictionally, and then looking at the real world and how they're kind of getting closer together, do you feel hopeful? el hopeful? >> yes. i think we are in a very, very bad way. without question. we have lost our way on many levels. as to leaving behind the show and going home -- >> yeah --

>> you see, that's crucial. it has to happen. but we cannot do that. >> yeah. absolutely. ann dowd, you are a treasure -- >> so are you! >> oh, thank you. thank you, thank you, thank you. all right, cheers. we will be right back. chairs. ack. chairs ♪ (customer) save yourself?! money with farmers. (burke) that's not wrong. when you bundle your home and auto policies with farmers, you save yourself up to twenty percent. (customer) that's something. (burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers. kinda creepy. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ ♪ ♪ this is how it feels to du more with less asthma...

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under's eye. all in with chris hayes starts right now. >>r' tonight, on all in -- >> the fbi came after me, they took my phone, they surrounded me at a hardee's. >> a drive-through rendezvous with justice. >> they started asking me these questions about colorado, about dominion machines, colorado with tina peters. >> tonight, the criminal case between mike pillow search warrant and how the election threat is only growing. then -- >> can i put pants on first? >> sir, we have to clear the house. -- okay.