movement that has been overturning roe for multiple decades. this is what we actually walk, finding a lot of people does not like that. thank you very much. thank you very much. >> thank you. that is "all in" on this thursday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now.ne good evening, alex. >> good evening, chris. it is funny what happens when republicans have to articulate policies. isn't it? >> yes,te well particularly whe you know, you're asked like should the survivor of sexual assault, a minor have to carry a pregnancy to term, you know, it is one to say in the abstract as a hypotheticalin and another to sayth like that actual individu in dearborn actually is going to have to do that. it is quite different. >> yes,it it actually makes you see theit humanity behind polic making. that's problematic sometimes fol the republican party. chris,ic great to see you as always. great job.

>> you too. thanks to you at home for being here. we have breaking news tonight, in the investigation into trump's handling of top secret classified government records that wound up at the florida beach club. and the special stay of the special master ruling, judge cannon ruled that she will appoint a special master, an independent third party to review the 11,000 seized records that the fbi retrieved from trump's lome 40 days ago, and in response, the justice department be grudgingly said okay, go ahead and appoint the special master but please exclude the roughly 100 classified documents seized from mar-a-lago because we need to continue the criminal investigation of the classified documents due to special national security interests. also aal second intelligence assessment into the potential risks and harms that may have been caused byat having those t secret classified documents hanging out at trump's club, the justice department argued that

thatst assessment could not continue without the fbi's assistance. now tonight judge cannon has deniedas that request. she said basically tough luck. judge cannon wrote in her order, quote, the court cannot advocate its control over questions of privilege and does not find the government's argument sufficiently convincing as presented. not sufficiently convincing, there has been no actual suggestion by theer government anyrn identifiable emergency or imminentti disclosure of classified information arising from plaintiff's allegedly unlawful retention of the seized property. in other words, she did not agreeor with the government's argument that her order not only delayed their criminal investigation, but by impeding the parallel intelligence assessment would harm our national security. and cannon clarified the fbi is free toed participate in the inl assessment. quote, the temporary restraintn does not prevent the government from continuinges to review and use the materials seized for purposes of intelligence

classification and national securityen assessment. just go on, keep doing what you were doing even though d you sa it is not possible. is this is tough news for the justice department andr otentially the intelligence community. judgete cannon did officially ne the special master who will oversee the review of these government records tonight. she has appointed raymond j. deary ain judge for the eastern district of new york who was appointed by rond reagan. first suggested by team trump as one of the picks for special master. the justice department s agreed that the senior judge would be a gooddg pick but the government would like theod special master it would like him to work expeditiously. the d.o.j. has asked if the special master was indeed appointed that he or she wrap it all up by mid october. and today the judge said conclude thedg review by novemb 30th or thereabouts.

in addition to all of these apparent concessions to the former president, judge cannon also said that trump's team will get a chance to review everything with the appropriate security clearances ofyt course but that is a big win for the former president.fo who potentially gets to go over all of the classified material, much of which he no longer has the clearance to review. it is worth noting here that judgert cannon does not accept e government's assertion that they seized roughly 100 classified documents in the first place. she casts serious doubt on whether or not those documents are actually indeed classified. and you can almost hear the mistrust of the government in hermi ruling tonight. quote, in describing the documents from the larger set of seized materials, the 100 classified documents, the government effectively asked the court to accept the following premises neither a the court is expected to adopt easily without special review by a master. there first is that the

approximately 100 documents isolated by the government are classified government records and plaintiff could not have an interest in any of them. the second is that plaintiff has no plausible claim of privilege as to any of these documents. so basically, the judge is saying b i am not ready to acce that those 100 documents are classified. who are you to say that, d.o.j.? the justice department told the that they will appeal thisat ruling to the 11t circuit court of appeals so keep an eye out for that. this ruling is a doozy, and we have a lot to unpack here. joining us now is barbara mcquade former u.s. attorney for the eastern districtmc of michigan. thanks so much for being here to help decipher what's going on. let me just first ask you, what is your reaction to this ruling that seems to be a gift to donald trump, at least from the initial assessment of what's happening here? >> yes, it's really astonishing, the justice department threw her a lifeline and judge cannon threw it right back, doubling

down on this idea, as you say it, just drips with distrust of the w government, saying just because they say they're classified, how do we know they're really classified and how can you say that donald trump has no interest in them andno how can you say there is privilege. classified documents must be stored in a skiff, in a basement, the idea that he somehow has a right to these documents isgh really i think completely beyond the dispute. but i will say there are a couple of things carved out here that are not bad. one is she met d.o.j.'s deadline. they wanted a decision.j by tod. she didn't have to follow their deadline. but she did. that was good because the case is moving along. and it is not dragging anymore than is necessary. the other thing she did clarify that intelligence risk assessment the justice department wants to do can include members of the fbi, to the extent it is inextricably intertwined of criminal aspect, interviewing ofwi witnesses or fingerprinting or ear things, they can do that and i think one

worry is if they did, that than any of those witnesses who were involved later in the criminal course would be deemed tainted and an ultimate conviction could out.rown and so i think she has included some clarifying language there that could actually be helpful in conducting that assessment. >> so you think that the meaningful atcarve-out, that th will assuage some of the fbi's concerns here? >> well, no, i don't think, i didn't even mean meaningful and assuage all of their concerns, it does talk about the risk assessment which is the most urgent thing that can be done. i think the other things are wrong andth i think the justice department will appealk on tho bases to clarify the law as a constitutional matter going forward that someone a subject of the search cannot challenge the use of those things, later in the indictment, and here i think the judge is saying explicitly she is going out of her way here because she believe that donald autrump's reputatio could surfer irreparable harm

and that is treating him differently thanan any other litigant gets treated so i think for institutional reasons, the justice department has to appea, this order. and i think withpe regards to ts risk assessment of the intelligence community, that can go forward now and she has given them ard little more leeway to include the fbi in it. which is essential. because the cia cannot conduct investigations on u.s. soil. >> and the important distinction. the other thing that stood out to me is the notion that trump's team can see everything that wah seized including classified materials.ie for seized materials, make available for inspection by plaintiff's counsel with controlled accessif positions, including hearing requirements and under the supervision of the special master, the documents marked as classified and as papers attached to such documents. is thatd to problematic? >> it is, alex, the idea of classified documents is only those with a need to know within the intelligence community should even be looking at these things. now, we don'tt know who donald

trump will use to be his lawyer in this instance, and christina bobb, or it could be rudy giuliani, these people will have access to the crown jewels of our classified intelligence information. and as we've heard, there is somee' pretty explosive stuff i here, relating to the national defense. having that information in the hands of people who are not reliable government answers, is definitely a risk to national security. >> the other piece of this is the time line. the government has wanted to wrap this up pretty expeditiously. we are now given an extended deadline here from judge cannon to november 30th but there is kind of anud appeals process fo every batch of documents that either side takes issue with, in terms of classification. could this slide into next year, barb? >> i'm afraid it could. now one thing she did say is she asked tosa prioritize the 100 o so classified documents. so he will look at those, make a decision, and turn them over.

but of course, that's where all of the action is. i can imagine donald trump makingi an argument there, aft judge deary makes his ruling, judge cannon will be able to make her ruling and from there, there could be appeals. so you know, this has always been donald trump's game. run out the clock. delay, oudelay, delay. stall as long as possible. but i don't know that he can stall longt enough for this ca to run aground in terms of the 2024 election. i think at some point, it may get delayed by another month but i think at some point, this case will come to fruition and i do think based on all that we know it, seems impossible for the justice department to declineib pursuing criminal charges here there's some new fact of which we're currently unaware. >> we do know that they probably, the next move is probably to appeal to the 11th circuit of appeals, six of the 11 judges on that are trump appointees. barbara mcquaid former u.s. attorney for the eastern direct of michigan. thank you.

and ben rhodes, former national deputy security adviser for the obama administration and msnbcra analyst. thanksnd for being here on shor noticeng in the middle of a breaking news hurricane here. first, i want to get your thoughts on the disdain with which this judge is treating the national security community, the justice department, questioning whether or not thesede records e even classified again, as a reminder, "washington post" reporting on september 6th that there are documents describing a foreign government's military defensesnt including nuclear capabilities, in theng tranche documents that ended up in the broom closet down at mar-a-lago. what did you make d of that language? and what did you make of her posture as it relates to national security? >> i mean i think it is totally reckless, a little bit insane, alex, and we see these filings, they have the s look of legal documents that beestows a legitimacy on them. but this makes no sense and this is a m judge that has no background whatsoever in national security.

her main qualification is that she would beur a rubber stamp f donald trump and the republican party's agenda. and if you think about the classification issue, just for one example, i had the high security clearance in the u.s. government for eight years, there is a cover sheet that has the classification on it, every single page offi the document i stamped top secret or secret. therest is not a question as to whether these are classified. that's an absurd thing to be asserting. it is markedhi all over the documents themselves. and the justice department, as part of the intelligence th community, is well aware of what the classification status is of thesee documents, and so she's basically imposing like a trump defense rationale on to her own legal opinion and it has nothing at alll to do with the underlyg reality that there are 100 classified documents that apparently had very significant and sensitive seeks of the u.s. intelligence community and passed around that is unnecessary and disrupt the government's act to understand

why trump had those documents and to understand what the d.o.j. said in the filing, why there are 50 document folders that are marked classified that ares empty in mar-a-lago, too d they need to try to understand whether there are n more documes out there. so this is throwing a wrench into the gears in a way that is totally disrespectful of any equity that the national security intelligence community might have about why these documents were at mar-a-lago in the first place. >>ma well, and let's keep in mi that the people, the fbi agents who were tasked with reviewing these documents, some of them didme not have the security clearance necessary to review the classified documents and because of this order from judge cannon, you could feasibly have a former cross-fit lawyer or rudy giuliani looking over some ofok what bash mcquade called t crown jewels of our national security infrastructure. i mean that prospect should terrify everyone regardless of party affiliation. >> it should. i will take one example that has been out there in the press, the

"washington post" report about information about a foreign nuclear weapons information, and this isre not a memento that donald trump had on the wall and not a letter from a foreign leader, this is f a report presumably prepared not just for donald trump but for people who need to know about that foreign country's nuclear weapons program. the information in that document, which is certainly more than one page, would include sources and methods of intelligence gathering, multiple sources and methods of intelligence gathering, perhaps signals intelligence, intercepts, perhaps information derived from human sources, who are out there inde the world rit now, today, wondering whether or not somebody might have compromised information they provided to u.s. government, and whether or not they might be he n-danger. these are they questions that e on the forefront of the minds i'm sure of the people of the d.o.j. and the only question that seems to be on the forefront of the mind of the judge is how she could run political deliverance for donald trump.ca i think itna calls it what it i. this is not normal.

there is not a lot of precedence for what the judge is doing. if i had these boxes here in my basement in los angeles, i would be in prison right now. in couldn't walk out with 100 documents. you know,00 we just have to be bearing in mind what we are watching there are two systems of justice in this country according to thisre judge.hi one for every american and one forev donald trump. and the idea that we even entertain a conversation for one of these lawyers to be sitting there reviewing nuclear weapon information about another country just to satisfy donald trump's desire to sow sox seeds of doubt about what the isernment is doing here that an absurd role for a judge to play. >> a thus far the judicial syst has acted as a check on trump's ambitions and we have a judge exclusively calling a, explicitly calling a page from the trump play book, and questioning trust of the determination of thequ departme justice. the institutional accuracy has now infected the judicial branch and we are watching it play out before our very eyes.

>> yes, i mean alex, you and i have talked about a good bit over theab years that trump in conversation, people-watching but oneco of the things that i pointed out as i have looked at other country, the first thing when an autocrat tor do, is to shift to an autocratic system, to try to pack the courts with judges that they will find in their favor and we have seen it from russia to hungary and what donald trump tried to doar is appoint people who are highly unqualified in certain cases for their including this judge for that matter, whose main point was fealty to a trump agenda. they weren't subtle. very young, very inexperienced who come up through a pipeline of judges who are very ideological. and we are seeing the results of thisin across american life. we obviously see it, the most extreme level in the dobbs case in the supreme court, but bear in mindhe now, there are judgesn the system that, it's not whether or not theyem disagree

with my particular philosophy of governance, it is not whether they disagree with certain aspects of what is in the constitution and what's not. is someone inserting themselves into like a fairly routine criminal prosecution when you consider what trump has taken with him outside of the government.de nobody can deny that it is a crime to take 100 classified documents down to your basement in mar-a-lago, and creating, you know,re rationales to throw san in the gears of that process, and to chip the rule of law so it is not equal administration of justice in this country. so the national security is secondary as an interest to donald trump's personal legal interests, and his reputational interests. that is actually what she says here. you know. and soal i think that to see th as part of the danger to democracy and not just a danger of national security but a danger of the radical approach to the judiciary that puts the of a political actor above the national interests. >> it should be distressing, not just the ruling itself but what itin signifies more broadly.

ben rhodes, former national security adviser in the obama administration, good to see you, my friend. thanks for your time. >> thanks, rialex. ahead, my interview with john fetterman, democratic nominee for senate in the state of stpennsylvania. his answers to questions about his health, republican attacks, and how the supreme court abortion ruling is playing out on the trail, and trolling dr. oz. and the latest republican stunt using migrants as a politicalts pawn. just howca low the gop governor are going to make a political point. a very long history in america. and we will explain all of that coming up. p.

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i'm john fetterman and i approve this message. >> dr. oz made a fortune on tv. i remember his show. he had a magic pill for everything. raspberry ketone. yacon syrup, dr. oz pushed all of those pills. and he knew they didn't really work. >> there's not a pill that is going to help you lose weight without diet and exercise. >> he took advantage of the viewers. now he expects us to trust him as a politician? forget about it. >> that is the latest campaign ad from pennsylvania senate nominee democrat john fetterman. who has been blessed with one of most unintentionally stunning appointments in history, television personality dr. mehmet oz and the fetterman

campaign made the campaign about dr. oz himself, how rich he is and how many homes he has and where those homes and specifically just moved to the state he is now trying to represent. personal politics on display here have not gone unnoticed by the oz campaign which has responded in turn by going very, very personal. days before the primary back in may, fetterman suffered a stroke. he has since made it back out on the campaign trail holding rallies and getting the campaign mostly back to normal but dr. oz has done all he can to make the focus of the race not on any particular issue but instead on fetterman's health. as much as this race is about dr. oz's larger than life persona or john fetterman's health or even the state of pennsylvania itself this race is also ultimately about which party will control the senate come december and that means not only is pennsylvania's senate seat on the line but so are abortion rights and health care and social security and everything else republicans would like to get their hands on

if they get the majority. earlier today, i sat down with john fetterman to ask how his campaign is going. >> john, thank you so much for being with us tonight. and let me just first start with how you're feeling, and if you could tell us how this whole recovery process has been for you, he mean we haven't thought about the incredible drive in the last few months but also the difficulties i'm sure we don't even know about. >> so it is so wonderful being with you today. and the recovery has been really kind of like a miracle, because it's simply could have ended my life with a stroke but thankfully i happen to be the in the right place and have it at the right time and it got me to the hospital in about 20 minutes and that allowed them to save my life. and since then i've been making a recovery that has now left me able to run the kinds of campaign, to do rallies, do interviews and be evaluated by

doctors and everyone, who all agree that i'm absolutely up to run this race. and right now, dr. oz has really, he is making a very, very big fit, making fun of or mocking somebody, with a health care challenge, and at rallies, i ask, i ask people, who has, who has had a major health challenge in their lives, what about your parents, what about children, and what about your grandparents, and by the time most of the hands are up, and you know, they say, i am so sorry you're having these kind of challenges but i hope you never have a doctor in your life making fun of you, or saying that you're not able to do your job and to work, but unfortunately i have a doctor in my life saying those kinds of things. and if we're not able to send him back to new jersey, he's going to be in all of our lives saying these kind of absurd things. >> you make a great point that you are doing interviews, we're so thrilled have you on the show

and you've done a few other ones as well. >> great to be here. >> there was a convalescent period though and i wonder if you could tell aus little bit about what it's been like. take us back to that moment in early may, and how was your summer, what was happening, how were you thinking about life and your candidacy? >> sure, it was absolutely -- my wife saved my life. i was on the way to an event, and she said oh, my gosh, you're having a stroke. and i'm like, no, no it's fine. come on. we got to get to the event. and actually, no, she is like no we got to get there and that's exactly what happened. and it was very bracing to think of the fact that i could have died, and you know, thinking about that, reflecting on that, that the father of three young children, and a wife, and thinking about all of those things, i promise you, that is ten times bigger and ten times harder than the kind of cheap

shots that dr. oz has chosen in this campaign. but began it's his story, he needs to tell it the way he needs to but he needs to own those kind of words because a doctor is choosing to mock somebody who is making, or recovering from a stroke, i don't believe, demonstrates that you're a guy, who has lost his way, in fact, he has never had his way, and the kind of campaign that we have right now. >> apart from, we're going to talk a little bit about the verbal and cognitive concerns, but emotionally, has it changed you? >> sure, it's definitely changed me. before this, this stroke, i thought i was a very empathetic person and i really understood what it was like, when people feel these kind of challenges but after it happened, it made me even more, ten times more empathetic and understanding. and i really have been able to connect with people in the audiences all across pennsylvania, tell me, hey, i

have been dealing with cancer or i had a stroke or i have these kind of issues and they're like thank you for what you're doing, and no, no, thank you for supporting me and supporting, you know, the kind of race that is about standing for basic democratic values and issues that i think a majority of pennsylvanians support. >> you know, your campaign as of yesterday has agreed to a debate with dr. oz at the end of october and i know as part of that, one of your commissions is using a closed captioning system. can you explain to people how and why that is necessary? >> sure. absolutely. in fact, i'm speaking with captioning right now, just because, after the stroke, they could have taken my life, the actual lingering issue of auditor processing. and sometimes i may not be able to hear things or i might miss a word, and now i just want it make sure i'm able to know exactly the question that is being put to me. and an example of kind of what happened, having the stroke, it

was, let me give you an example. you know, i thought i was going to, i was going to go to wegman's, and i was in regners and i turned around and said i'm actually at weg ner's, combining two words together to create something that doesn't exist here, and what is the simple truth. >> a lot has been made of your health, especially by republicans, there are viral videos, mash-ups of your, i think, cognitive, or vocal errors, things that they think suggest cognitive decline. what do you think pennsylvania voters who see some of this stuff on the internet, who hear the ads from dr. oz's camp, and are worried about your fitness for office? i mean what do you say to skeptics who think i don't know about this guy, is he operating at 100%? >> well, all of my doctors on the team believe that i'm absolutely fit to serve. i just took a test, i think it

was yesterday, that confirmed that i'm absolutely fully functioning, in the range as well, too. the one side that wants to try and lie about that, they want to run away from the truth, so they don't want to confront really basic issues like abortion. and dr. oz is unwilling to address that, and answer it straight up. >> let's talk about abortion. this week, senator lindsey graham proposed a 15 week federal abortion ban. what did you think when you heard that? >> well, dr. oz might be a joke, but it's not funny, because abortion is on the ballot, and it is a simple question, dr. oz, do you support the bill, excuse me, the gop bill to ban abortion, yes or no. >> do you think this is a question that dr. oz needs to answer, does he support lindsey graham's federal abortion ban? and do you believe that is -- >> yes. >> i mean when you first heard lindsey graham propose this, did you think this is a gift to

democrats who are looking to beat republicans in the senate races? >> i don't consider it as a gift, it is actually a very dangerous kind of law, and what's even more scary is that dr. oz would vote to eliminate abortion rights here in america. the truth is, is that it may be a clown, but a clown with a vote is very scary and we have to make sure that we send him back to new jersey where he lives and make sure that we stand for abortion rights, we stand for the union way of life, we stand for minimum wage, and we stand for health care, and we stand for making sure health care can have the kind of opportunity that saved my life for everybody and stop turning around and making fun of somebody who is challenged. >> you are on the mend, the

first and only debate, out there talking to the media, the race is expected to tighten, what's your state of mind right now? >> sure, i'm feeling really great about the race. i'm getting stronger, better and better every day. and you know, whether you look at all of the different polls and of course, the ones yesterday, you have i think nine points and five points and we're going to run, if we're down five points, every day, and the kind of campaign that we have always run, and at the end of this, we are going to take this all the way to november 8th and we're going to make an argument ought across pennsylvania that a man from new jersey who has 12 mansions is somebody that believes that abortions should, a decision should be held in their choice, not women and their doctors, whether that is the kind of candidate that believes that the union way of life needs to be taken away, or

believing that the minimum wage is just fine, at 7.25, and i believe at the end of the day, the majority of pennsylvania voters all agree with me, and we're going to see november 8th when it all comes down and i sure hope, pennsylvania and america doesn't have a doctor in your life that has chose to spend their campaign ridiculing somebody that had a stroke. >> i just got to say it, sounds like you're having fun trolling dr. oz, is that a fair assessment? >> well, i mean he is -- he's a gift, you know. he puts out all such raw material, whether the fact that he lives in new jersey, or that he has, you know, pointing out that he has 10 or 11 homes, you know, it really makes, he's very rich for material. >> he's got plenty of material. john fetterman, this is an extraordinary race, and an

extraordinary state at an extraordinary time in american politics. lieutenant governor of pennsylvania and of course the democratic nominee for the u.s. senate, good luck, sir, and thank you so much for spending some time with me tonight. >> thank you so much. thank you so much. coming up, republican governor ron desantis is using people as props. desantis used taxpayer dollars to pick up migrants in texas, to lie to them and fly them across the country and leave them with nothing. >> i wish i was kidding. that story coming up. dding. that story coming up snoring? because quality sleep is vital, the sleep number 360 smart bed can gently raise your partner's head to help. ah...that's better. our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. save 30% on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed. only for a limited time.

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most of the people who came have only a shopping bag with perhaps one change of clothing. no money. knowing nobody. it was one of the most inhuman things that i have ever seen. >> may mother was told she was going to have better everything. she would have a job and she is going to be able to support her family, and her children will get an education, you know, they will go to school. >> that alone was not the truth. >> that was the summer and fall of 1962, hundreds of black americans arrived at cape cod, massachusetts, near the summer home of president john f. kennedy, arrived in their sunday best, dresses, curls, white hats. they had little else packed for what they expected to be a permanent move mostly because

they had little else. segregationists in southern states convinced them to travel to massachusetts on buses by promising the world. jobs, permanent housing, and a new life, and a meeting with president john f. kennedy. none of that happened. these people, women and men and children, were lured, lied to, and sent to massachusetts, with nothing. kennedy wasn't there to greet them. but the cape cod naacp was because they caught wind of the trick. the whole thing, if you can believe it, it was on purpose. real people with real lives and real human needs were used as pawns in a game concocted by white segregationist southern leaders who were angry about the push for racial integration. they were angry about the activism of the freed riders in 1961 who aimed to integrate interstate bus travel, they were so angry that they punished innocent people on purpose putting them on what they called reverse freedom rides back up north. >> the ultimate accomplishment

has been a theme, and that that is to focus attention on the hypocrisy of the northern liberals and the naacp urban league and people like that especially. >> we will continue until the people in the majority tell those politicians we are through with this foolishness about political rights and civil rights. >> early similar, targeting another group of people of color, immigrants. >> we are not a sanctuary state. and it's better to be able to go to a sanctuary jurisdiction, and yes, we will help facilitate that transport for you, to be able to go to greener pastures. in all of those people in dc and new york who are feeding their, beating their chest when trump was president saying they were so proud to be sanctuary jurisdictions, saying how bad it was to have a secure border, the minute even a small fraction of what those border towns deal

with every day is brought to their front door, they all of a sudden go berserk. >> yesterday, florida's republican governor ron desantis moved 50 migrants to martha's vineyard, a small island off the massachusetts coast and the governor used. so $12 million the state legislature set aside for transporting migrants out of state of florida and the planes originated in san antonio, texas but stopped briefly in florida first and plane who flew to martha's vineyard were told they headed to boston and that means florida governor ron desantis became the third republican governor joining greg abbott and arizona governor doug doocy in trying to tern the immigration system into a political prank using people as pawns to prove once and for all that democrat-led states and cities are not actually sanctuary cities for migrants.

he'll show those states. >> can you tell me about the events of the last 24 hours? >> they're worried and deceived. it is the year 2022. but this stunt echos what we saw 60 years ago, when segregation of southerners bussed black americans up to massachusetts. we are again seeing a group of disenfranchised black and brown

people used as pawns, because a vision of those very same black and brown people being fully integrated in american society is terrifying to certain conservative leaders. we'll have more on this just ahead. 60-degree spinner wheels. ♪ ♪ so you can go with the flow. ♪ ♪

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fox news is the first to learn that 50 migrants would be arriving at martha's vineyard yesterday on a chartered plane funded by the state of florida.

they got this footage. not because of amazing shoe leather reporting but because governor desantis tipped them off, hired a vid grapher to ride on the plane with the 50 migrants. he did not however give a heads up to local authorities whoen the migrants arrived and the cruelness and the cameras captured. that abbott was bussing those from texas to new york and chicago and dc. and all about telling authorities in those cities ahead of time. when it comes to florida, npr reported on the migrants to martha's vineyard and the migrants said a woman they identified as pearla approached them outside the shelter and lured them into a plane saying they would be flown to boston to get expedited work papers and

providing food and pearla was trying to recruit more passengers hours before their flight. one migrant from venezuela says pearla offered help, help that never arrived. now we are here. and we have been on the plane with a vision of the future, of making it, and look, when you have no money and someone offers help, well, it means a lot. we got on the plane because of a promise of help. they received none from governor desantis. only cameras. joining us now is julian castro, former mayor of san antonio, texas, and secretary of housing and urban development in the obama administration. mr. secretary, plchlgt mr. mayor, thank you so much for being with us. >> goods to be with you, alex. >> so you were the former mayor of san antonio, we have some reporting that the bus load of migrants traveled first through san antonio and then eventually martha's vineyard from a mayoral municipal level, what does it mean to have bus loads of migrants arriving in your city with no heads up and no action plan in order to help them? what does that practically mean

on the ground? >> what it means is it causes chaos. you have to scramble to try and provide what kind of resources the city can, and also recruit nonprofits, whether it's churches, or other nonprofits, to do what they can, and that's exactly what we've seen in each of these cities, where these migrants have been bussed, that's actually the story i think that shows the compassion and the humanity of the american people. but the flip side of that, as you well pointed out, alex, is governor desantis and governor abbott and doocy, being so mean spirited, being so cruel, and lying to these migrants about what is going to happen to them, you know, it's really a measure of how cruel they think they have to to be be successful in the 2024 republican primary, that they all want to run in for president.

>> it might also be illegal. i want to bring everyone's attention to a tweet you answered earlier this afternoon. governors abbott and desantis are lying to immigrant families to lure and traffic them out of the state on the taxpayers' dime to help themselves politically. it is pure cruelty. it may also be illegal. the d.o.j. should investigate. do you think there could be legal repercussions here. >> i absolutely think the d.o.j. should investigate here. they're sending people across state lines under false pretenses, they are essentially trafficking these people for their own political gain. there are human traffickers that traffic for money. these people are trafficking these migrants for political gain. it's mean spirited. it's cruel. it's not effective as immigration policy. and it's inhumane. the willingness of so many republicans to go along with this, i think also says something about the republican base, and my hope is that not only will the d.o.j.

investigate, but that these three governors are going to pay a political price for doing this at home in their state. >> the dehumanization of immigrants in this country, largely at the hands of republicans, and i'm thinking of the family separation policy that was a hallmark of the trump administration, this latest policy by would-be contenders in 2024, it plays well on fox news. the border is a singular focus of conservative media. and i just wonder, in this tied of history as it turns will we look upon this chapter will we look upon the reverse freedom rides of the 1960s or something that the republicans will continue to run on and make a central flank in their policy platforms in the years ahead? i'm not sure that they're going to be turned off by the discussion we're having, they're going to ask for more more of it. >> look, they're trying to find somebody who is as mean-spirited and as cruel to migrants as donald trump was, without the baggage of donald trump, and i think this goes in cycles.

really, this isn't the first time in american history where we've seen this kind of cruelty, hatred, towards immigrants to the country, and it may be the last time we see this, but i think that every time, you see a pushback, and you do see the better angels of the country prevail, at least for a while, so i think we are going to look upon family separation and what desantis and abbott and doocy are doing as shameful in the years to come. >> they will be asked about it if they do run for president, we know that. julian castro, former mayor of san antonio, and former secretary of hud, thank you so much as always for your time. >> thank you. we'll be right back. time >> thank you. we'll be right back.

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that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. in america, evil will not win. it will not prevail. [ applause ] >> white supremacists will not have the last word. and this venom and violence condition be the story of our time. >> that's president joe biden calling on the country to stand against hate-based extremism. it's a major concern for the president, who noted the intelligence agency has determined that white sprem six violence is the greatest --