look at how these toe taryn

regimes get started. they get started by a demagogue, an authoritarian basically demanding fealty, and not just to himself but to his version of reality. we saw that start on the afternoon of the inauguration where, you know, alternative facts about the size of the crowd became the argument the white house was making to overlook the fact that there wasn't that big a crowd, and it continues to today where people who you would think not only know better but would want to do better are siding with this outrageous and i believe probably illegal use of classified material. so it's a mystery to me, but it is a dangerous mystery that you have the republican party still enabling the fantasies and the power-rungry dreams of the former president. >> that was former secretary of state and former presidential

candidate hillary clinton speaking with us last hour on "morning joe" about the case against donald trump and the hypocrisy of how republicans reacted to her emails versus his alleged mishandling of classified material. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 9:00 a.m. in the east, 6:00 a.m. out west. we have got so much to get to this hour, including a federal judge appointing a veteran jurist to serve as a special master in the criminal investigation into the presence of classified documents at former president donald trump's florida home and at the same time kept in place an order that bars the justice department from using the material to conduct its investigation. also ahead, republican governors continue using their partisan tactic of sending migrants to democratic strongholds without advanced warning. we'll get a live report from

martha's vineyard in just a moment. and late they are hour, it has been one of the most covet spots in pop culture bs the cover of "rolling stone." to land on that hallowed ground signaled like nothing else that you had made it. we'll talk to the man behind the iconic magazine. we'll begin with our top story this morning, willie. yeah. that is the appointment of a third party to review the documents the fbi seized from former president donald trump's mar-a-lago home and club in florida. federal judge aileen cannon named raymond dearie as a special master. among the responsibilities laid out by judge cannon will be to determine if any of the documents are protected by attorney-client or executive privilege. dearie has until november 30th to review the materials.

judge cannon deied the justice department's request for documents seized from mar-a-lago to use in its ongoing investigation. but she insisted her order does not restrict the government from continuing to review the materialings for intelligence classification and national security assessments or from briefing members of congress about them. the doj is expected to appeal the rolling to the 11th circuit court of appeals. joining us now, former u.s. attorney joyce vance, also an msnbc legal analyst. joyce, good to see you. so, what do you make of that second ruling on the justice department's ability to review these documents, those 100 classified documents specifically, that they do have to continue to hold and pause before the special master looks at them? >> it's i'm going to say an interesting ruling, willie, in the sense that it's internally contradictory, because the judge tells doj that she rejects their

assessment about whether documents are classified or not and whether there are privilege issues, but on the other hand there's this really interesting footnote late in the ruling where she says that if doj ultimately finds that the criminal investigation and the intelligence review come together in a way where they're inextricably intertwined, that doj can just make that judgment and go ahead. this seems like a judge -- and it sort of pains me to criticize a federal judge because cases are often very close. the supreme court decides a lot of cases 5-4. but increasingly it's clear that this is an unprincipled ruling that the judge doesn't have a factual record that supports her rejection of doj's classification of documents on the one hand but tries to give herself an out because she's received a lot of criticism for interfering with the intelligence community process. and so her ruling, her effort to i guess have it both ways is

ultimately unsuccessful. it's a great opportunity for the 11th circuit. there's been a lot of criticism of the circuit. folks pointed out how many judges, i think 6 out of 12, there are 11, one seat is vacant, so half of the court appointed by the former president, this is an opportunity for the court to come in and stand for the rule of law like so many judges did in the wake of the 2020 election where they refused to accept the former president's arguments that were made in violation of the rule of law, the 11th circuit now has its moment ahead of it. >> joyce, i want to follow up with what you said. we've talked about this before. i'm always very careful. i don't want to second-guess federal judges because, like you said, sometimes the cases are very complex, we don't know what's before judges. and, you know, i always cringe when people start talking about what a -- that a jury, if a jury rules a certain way it must be racist or it must be enlightened if it rules the way they want.

i want makes me cringe because they're not there. they don't know all the facts and evidence. they also don't know the rule of law. i say all that to say, despite my continued praise for the federal judiciary, this is an embarrassment. this is a black eye on the federal judiciary. when you have everybody from former attorney general barr on the right to people in the middle, the left, when you have intel agency experts talking about how this harms american national security, one said he fears that there will be some people in the intel community who will quit overseas because their work will be exposed. you've got a federal judge who just doesn't give a damn for political reasons. this really is a mark against

the federal judiciary, isn't it. >> it's a really disturbing decision. it's one federal district court judge, a trial judge, and of course we have courts of appeals that exist in order to correct the rulings of the lower court federal judges when they run astray from the rule of law. so this is really in many ways for an opportunity for the 11th circuit to do its job, to stand for the rule of law. many people have said it's a conservative circuit and they take that to have a political meaning. you know, before i was a u.s. attorney, i was the appellate chief in my office and practiced in front of that court for many years. i would say they're conservative in the sense they're very protective of doctrine-al parts of the law. they are in many way a circuit that believes that law enforcement should have the capability, the tools it needs to do its work and to hold people accountable. i would expect to see this

circuit push back strongly against some of the judge's assertions that are not supported by any evidence in the record. she simply reaches this these conclusions. she says, you know, i don't trust doj's assessment, i can't get this far without having a neutral third party make these decisions for me. and that's perhaps the oddest feature of this opinion, joe, because as you know, she's supposed to be the neutral third party herself who makes these calls based on the facts and the law. she has totally abdicated that responsibility. it will be up to a three-judge panel in atlanta to tell her she got it wrong. >> former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance, thank you very much for your insight this morning. so, a source familiar with the matter tells nbc news that former trump white house chief of staff mark meadows has complied with a justice department subpoena into efforts to overturn the 2020 election. he's now the highest ranking

member of the former president's inner circle to comply. meadows has turned over thousands of text messages and emails to lawmakers investigating the january 6th attack. multiple reports say he fro vided the justice department with the same material, though nbc news has not been able to confirm that fact. >> willie, for some time i've been wondering where meadows stands on all of this. i think there's a reason why he dumped all those documents on the january 6th committee. i think there's a reason why he's the highest ranking of the trump administration to comply. he's exposed in such a big way legally on a variety of fronts. unlike donald trump, he's not going to be able to summon people that commit acts of violence to protect him. he will be the first that trump throws under the bus to send him to prison if somehow trump thinks he can point the finger at meadows and push the blame

that way. >> yeah. meadows and his team made a big show saying they were defying the subpoena from the january 6th committee. that actually came after he already turned over thousands of pages of documents. so, that committee had what it needed. when we saw those hearings, we saw the role he played, the extreme cowardice he exercised when people were saying we have to do something to stop this, and the big guy doesn't want to do anything and goes back to his phone. he knows he's exposed and at the center of the this. fascinating now he is complying with at least the subpoena from the justice department if not from the select committee. there's also that investigation in georgia, the fulton county d.a. gave an update on her office's investigation in the efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in the state of georgia. she said, "the allegations are very serious. if indicted and convicted, people are facing prison

sentences." she confirmed in a paper she expects to wrap up the fax-finding stage of the inquiry before the end of the year, adding the probe will stop its public activity, like calling witnesses, for the month before the midterms. when the special grand jury has hearing from witnesses, it will provide a report that could include recommendations for indictments. meanwhile, today, president biden will meet with the families of wnba star brittney griner and former marine paul whelan at the white house as the administration continues to push for their release from wrongful detention in russia. nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander live at the white house. a meeting today, symbolic, the president sitting down with these families. what about the progress to get the two of them out of russia? >> reporter: the aides say this more than anything is an effort to ensure the families that the administration is committed to securing the release of their loved ones and they remain front of mind.

this is the first time the president will meet in person with the families. it will be a pair of separate meetings, one with brittney griner's wife, chenelle. whelan was sentenced to 16 years on spying charges he denies. the meetings underscore the pressure the president is facing to bring these people home. talks have not moved as quickly as the u.s. would like. russia has balked at the prisoner exchange the united states offered this summer to trade griner and whelan for convicted russians arms dealer, viktor bout. the russians have wanted a two-for-two person exchange, but u.s. officials say the russians have not come up with a serious counteroffer. this is one other tension point here that's notable. the former u.s. ambassador bill richardson, former new mexico

governor, was in moscow last weekends on behalf of the griner family, and richardson has had some success in the past bringing home americans detained overseas. but top officials have publicly spoken out against his help in this situation. the state department this week saying that richardson did not coordinate his visit with the u.s. embassy and suggesting that his efforts are in their words likely to hinder the work the u.s. government is doing to bring griner and whelan home. willie? >> let's hope they can get them home. peter alexander at the white house for us. thanks so much. mika? pressure is mounting on the white house as some republican governors are sending migrants up north, moves they claim are to draw attention to the crisis at the border. yesterday texas governor greg abbott sent two buses of migrants to the naval observatory in washington, d.c., where vice president kamala harris and her husband live. while earlier this week,

governor ron desantis directed two planes carrying dozens of migrants to massachusetts. let's bring in nbc news correspondent emily aceda. what's the latest on the situation? >> reporter: it's day three for the migrants here at st. andrews church. we're learning from a local official that the migrants will be given the option to go to a more equipped military base on cape cod, a bus set to arrive later this morning, this as the debate over the growing number of border crossings reaches new levels. this morning on the wealthy summer getaway, martha's vineyard, migrants are caught in the middle of a political fight over immigration. officials say two charter flights carrying 48 migrants including young children landed here wednesday without warning.

the planes were arranged by florida's republican governor ron desantis, protesting president biden's border security policies. >> we are not a sanctuary state, and it's better to be able to go to a sanctuary jurisdiction. yes, we will help facilitate that transport for you. >> reporter: president biden condemning the move. >> what they're doing is wrong, un-american, reckless. >> reporter: this woman who boarded the flight in texas said she was told we were headed to boston, adding, we want to contribute in the united states. local officials say they were give nonnotice but sprang into action along with volunteers to provide shelter, food, and medical care. what's going through their minds? >> they want work. they want answers. they've been lied to. >> reporter: democrats say these migrants and others like them have become political pawns, pointing to desantis' possible presidential bid in 2024. >> this is the taxpayer-funded private jets, quite expensive,

for a political stunt for the ambition of the governor of florida. >> reporter: but desantis is not the only one. republicans say the record-breaking influx at the southern border is straining the system and that they wanted to push states with liberal immigration policies to shoulder the burden. greg abbott and doug ducey have been also sending thousands of migrants north, including chicago and new york, where mayor adams says the city is nearing a breaking point. in the nation's capital, these are the more than 100 migrants sent by abbott to vice president harris' residents after she called the border secure despite a record 2 million illegal crossings in the last year. >> the border is secure, but we have a broken immigration system. >> reporter: the number of migrants crossing the u.s.-mexico border is growing, but the white house and the department of homeland security aren't seeing eye to eye on how to address it.

some are pushing president biden to bus or fly others to other parts of the country. >> nbc's emilie ikeda, thank you so much for that report. >> people saying these children and families are being used as political pawns are exactly right. and two things can be true at the same time. willie, we have a crisis at the southern border, and we've had a crisis at the southern border, we had it obviously during donald trump's term, and he handled it in ways that were grotesque and inhumane. the biden administration has been accused by many of not focusing on it enough. at the same time, we're seeing how political human trafficking is cruelly being used against

children and republicans are willing to abuse these kids pet petulantly. what's happening, though, is beautiful, good samaritans opening up their homes, their community centers, good samaritans have thrown open church doors wide open, and are accepting these people in. it doesn't mean we don't need to make dramatic steps to fix the crisis at the southern border because there's a humanity crisis there too. but my gosh, this political human trafficking is just beyond the pale even for those who are doing it. >> yeah. we've had democrats on just this week, joe, saying that vice president harris is wrong, that the border is not secure, that there is a crisis at the border. when you look at the statistics,

it's objectively true. you have 2 million migrants being arrested, breaking a record in a single year. that is a crisis. but my goodness, there's a better way to handle the crisis. you can criticize this administration and democrats who are in power right now, but telling women and children that they're getting on a plane to the promised land, that they're going to boston or new york, lying to them, having them land on a strange island without telling the people receiving them that the 50 migrants are coming, is not the way to handle it, obviously. i think governor desantis, governor abbott, they think this is a way to rat it will cage of progresses and democrats saying here's what we're dealing with on our border, you have a taste of it. but caught in the midrl real people, human beings, who went through hell to get to america and now have been mysteriously dropped onto an island with no idea where they are. >> terrible. still ahead, political analyst and pollster frank luntz

joins us to talk about his latest focus group on the state of the economy and how voters feel about america right now. and we'll go live to london where people from around the world are waiting in line for hours, 24 hours a day, to pay their respects to queen elizabeth. also ahead, a high-stakes meeting ends with vladimir putin showing a little bit of humility with the chinese president. we'll explain what happened ahead on "morning joe." allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good.

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presidents vladimir putin and xi jinping met yesterday in uzbekistan amid the ongoing war in ukraine, this as the ukrainian government has made the grim discovery of a mass grave in a recently liberated city. nbc news foreign correspondent megan fitzgerald has more.

a warning, some of these images are disturbing. >> reporter: this morning the brutal reality of russia's war emerging again. a mass grave with at least 25 bodies found in izyum, one of hundreds of towns and villages liberated in ukraine's northeast region of kharkiv. some crosses marked with only numbers. investigators say there's hundreds more as residents who survived describe the torture they endured in the basement of this police station. "they made me hold two wires attached to an electric generator. the faster you spin it, the higher the voltage. they kept spinning." at another police station, blood on the floor and evidence burned. 30,000 war crimes investigations already under way, 20,000 involving civilian victims. "it's not a war," president zelenskyy has said, "it's a genocide. russia is leaving death everywhere." the missiles keep coming,

hitting civilian buildings and damaging homes in central ukraine. as russia continues their attack, president putin meeting with president xi. putin changed the chinese leader for what he called a balanced approach to the war but admitted xi also expressed concerns about the invasion. >> what's striking is president putin's apparent admission, at least as stated in the media, that president xi has concerns about russia's war against ukraine. it is somewhat curious that president putin would be the one who admit it and to admit it so openly. >> reporter: putin using the platform to blast what he calls ugly u.s. policies as the u.s. sends ukraine another $600 million in military aid. but russia out with a warning, if the u.s. arms ukraine with longoria range missiles, it would cross a red line. >> nbc's megan fitzgerald reporting from ukraine. that meeting yesterday in

uzbekistan, president xi gave president putin absolutely nothing in terms of support for the war. in fact, in a statement e afterward put out by the chinese government, he appeared to implicitly criticize the war and vladimir putin. >> now. i'm not sure vladimir putin shaw -- saw that coming. a live look at the queue to pay respects to the late monarch. it is mimes long. by last night it had stretched to five miles. london police say it's the largest security operation ever, which is saying something, because the city hosted the olympics ten years ago. a government-run youtube tracker of the line says it's at capacity and tells people not to attempt to join. it could be hours before police reopen the line. political analyst and pollster frank luntz happens to be in london this morning.

frank, good to see you. >> not on queen-related business, i don't think, at least for the purposes of this show. frank, you did a focus group on the economy, and i've written down this week whenever we get andrew ross sorkin on, i just put down a list of the crosscurrents in the u.s. economy, people feeling terrible despite the fact we have had record job growth, record job openings, 11 million, according to the "wall street journal" a generational dominance of the u.s. dollar, child poverty at record lows, gas prices going down, supply chain problems improving. but inflation for working class and middle class americans, inflation seems to make all of that irrelevant to so many americans. what did you find in your focus group? >> the issue -- and by the way, last night i did go on to the

queue and spent about an hour interviewing people. and i've been very depressed. i know people will laugh at that, but if you listen to what i listened to, you hear what i hear from the american people, it's very upsetting, the level of division, the level of anger and frustration having this country continue gog higher, to a point you never thought it could reach. yet standing in that line, talking to those people, some who have flown from new york, miami, mexico city, across europe, people from africa that i interviewed, the level of reconciliation, of coming together, of being eager to talk to each other and share their experiences, none have ever met a member of the royal family and none will, but the belief that that institution keeps the country together, that it's been one of success even though it's had trials and tribulations over in recent years, the idea that

the entire population can share in this grief and reconnect with each other, i wish that we had some unifying force in america, i wish we had someone who brought people together. let's hope it doesn't have to be the loss of a political or social or any kind of figure that we could do so in a positive way. joe, to anxious your question specifically, inflation affects every individual in every community in every city of the country. it doesn't matter whether you're working class or upper middle class, you pay more for gas. and the key issue that's coming in the next three or four months, electricity. the idea that some people may not be able to afford electric bills in december and january when they'll need it. "the new york times" did an excellent job of bringing out this fear of what's happening, this frustration. you can read about it in sunday's newspaper.

joe, i won't call it a crisis, but i will say this -- it feeds into the negativity and it feeds into the division, and we don't seem to have any answers for it. >> you conducted the focus group earlier this week in conjunction with "the new york times." it was a nationwide sample of voters, half of whom voted for donald trump, the other half for joe biden. and you asked if they think washington understands the economic situation. let's take a look at some of their responses. >> what does washington not understand about you economically that you wish to tell them? >> everybody in congress, almost everybody in congress, they're serving independently wealthy, more money from congressional salaries, and i don't think they understand how expensive it is to live right now. i don't think they understand how expensive rent is, the number of houses signed for less

than $300,000 to almost nothing in the last five years, just the fact we can access not even building wealth but just getting stability. >> like chris said, i feel that they are far removed from their constituents. they do not care. and if they really looked at what was going on with homelessness, with affordable housing, with all of that, there would be more done and then money would be redirected and spending would be a lot smarter. i like the way some people answered. i don't think they're realistic. they don't know the day-to-day decisions we have to make in order to survive. >> frank, what is so fascinating is gas prices are going down, other costs are going down, but the one area that you kept hearing about, rent, housing, affordable housing. remember after world war ii, you

know, you look at those documentaries, you see levittown in those documentaries, pictures of the home, because guess what, that's at the heart of the american dream, that you come home from war, or you graduate from college, you find somebody special, you have a job, you buy a home, and you live the american dream. my parents did it. i'm sure your parents did it. we all grew up where that was able to be done. now the cost of rent is outrageous. and as far as a starter home, forget about it. it just costs too much, doesn't it. >> there's a philosophy behind this, and it's promise that the country's made to its people. you work hard, played by the rules, paid your taxes, raised

your family, attended religious institutions and things are supposed to work out for you. but for tens of millions of americans, they cannot afford the cost of day-to-day life. this is something that both political parties do not seem to address. we seem to focus on employment numbers, which are outstanding, but forgetting about the fact that the day-to-day concerns, the day-to-day priorities of so many americans cannot be met under the current economic conditions and that you heard that frustration with congress, the feeling is that congress doesn't get it. they argue, they fight, they bicker, and we're not better off as a result. >> so, here are some of their responses when you asked for one word that describes present-day america. >> one word, i'm calling on you e each of you to describe conditions in america right now. >> poor. >> disparity. >> struggle. >> confusing.

>> uncertain. >> depressing. >> miserable. >> divided. >> shaky. >> unstable. >> polarized. >> dire. >> dismal. >> division. >> and, frank? >> oh, my -- >> let me remind our viewers that half of those people voted for donald trump, half of those people voted for joe biden, and yet it seems like all of them right now do not like the direction of this country. >> joe, i'm going to take this opportunity, at some point, you break. we talk about it. we joke about it. the late-night comedians have routines on it. we share our points of view. we pontificate. but at some point, the country comes apart. and this is my warning, everyone hearing this right now -- we're

reaching the breaking point, reap it politically, in our inability to talk and listen to each other, we're reaching it economically in our inability to provide for ourselves and our families, we're reaching it socially with so many of these divisions. mika, joe, this is serious. this is significant. and someday, i don't want us to look back on this moment and say, well, we heard it, we knew from americans how they felt, but instead of solving the problems we made them worse. god help us if that's how we look at this moment. >> political analyst and pollster frank luntz, thank you, i think. >> thank you so much, frank. so important. >> wow. we appreciate it. >> for our fans watching. >> very informative. up next, from rock 'n' roll to politics and activism, the co-founder of the iconic "rolling stone" magazine, jann wenner, will be our guest. and before we go to break,

willie, what do you have planned for "sunday today"? >> i've got a good one dialed up for you. the star of the highly anticipated movie about marilyn monroe called "blond," incredibly talented ak stress, explosive performance, difficult, uncomfortable sometimes. she was nominated for golden globe, bond movies, "the gray man," a rising star. you'll hear about the movie sunday on nbc with ana de armas. we'll be right back on "morning joe." cancer. when your time is threatened, it's hard to invest in your future. until now. kisqali is helping women live longer than ever before when taken with an aromatase inhibitor or fulvestrant... in hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer.

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let's get real. prop, 26 means no money to fix homelessness, no enforcement oversight and no support for disadvantaged tribes. yikes! prop 27 generates hundreds of millions towards priorities like new housing units in all 58 counties. 27 supports non-gaming tribes and includes strict audits that ensure funds go directly to people off the streets and into there's only one choice. yes on 27.

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most influential magazines of all time. for decades, "rolling stone" has been at the forefront of music and culture. joining us now is the force behind what has been one of the most iconic publications in history. founder, co-editor, and publisher of "rolling stone" jann wenner is out with his new memoir entitled "like a rolling with us for this conversation. >> thanks for being with us. let's start with a name, obviously the dylan song came out a couple years before you began the magazine, the stones, of course, several years before. talk about the name, rolling stone. did you pick it up from the dylan song, from the stones, or from -- >> honestly from the dylan song. it was a title of an essay written by my co-founder of "rolling stone" called "like a

rolling stone." it was based on that song "like a rolling stone." the stones have said that i named it after them. bob claims otherwise. the truth is it's dylan. >> so, i have a copy of the first issue of "rolling stone." i think it's john lennon, image from how we won the war. i love what you said about why you used that picture, which really shows how you're a 21-year-old kid, you had no idea how this was going to explode, but you just said, hey, you know what, i was just looking for free pictures. and you found that one. what an iconic first cover for "rolling stone." >> absolutely. it suggested all the things that we'd become well-known for -- politics, coverage of movies, music. >> yeah. can i ask you, on the topic of john lennon, to i don't think

there's competition, most iconic interview of all time, 1970, you and john lennon, and he just unloaded on the beatles. it was a shocking interview. talk about how you got it, and if you understood the second you turned off the tape recorder that you were going to make rock history. >> well, i didn't realize fully the full impact of what it was going to mean. it was certainly the first time john had been interviewed or spoken out about what it was like to be in the beatles. before that, they were in a bubble, and nobody could penetrate that bubble. but john decided to, you know, let it out and tell the true story. i had been courting him over a while, but also we had been supporting him with the two versions cover they used to call all the time to "rolling stone"

to tell their peace activities, john and yoko, and i don'ted us as kind of their spokespeople in print, you know, their defenders, and who they would talk to. so when it came time to do the interview, which i'd been pursuing him about for three years, he just let -- he was also in therapy at the time, and he just felt like letting it all out. was i shocked? yes. was i surprised? it was on the front page of papers around the world, everywhere, lennon breaks up the beatles and stuff like that. we called it "lennon remembers." later on john called it "lennon regrets." >> jann, good morning. "rolling stone" is so iconic, now it's hard to remember that there was a time when you started this magazine at 21 years old where you had no, as you said, no money, no business plan, and no real ambition about it. you just wanted to write about music. when did it explode for you and

become something else and say this is going to be my life's work and we're going to expand beyond music and look into politics and the world? >> well, the declaration we were going to go into politics and to big things started fairly early. fairly early on, we had the altamont story and the charles manson story. we did both those things and won the national magazine award, our first ever, doing that when it was like in 1970, i believe. but i guess there was a point came where the financial exigencies became overwhelming and i had to look at myself and think to myself what do i really want to do as a career? you know, because i had to buckle down and raise more money and get on it. i thought, i'll stick with this thing and did and it gradually escalated over the years. you know, not again with any business plan in particular,

but, you know, a lot of ambition. >> jann, you know you and i have talked down through the years, and one of the things that was interesting to me, we did a couple of things in the magazine on my political and civil rights stuff. but you and i would talk music in your office. >> right. >> a long conversation you had about james brown, like a father to me. but michael jackson, i did the eulogy, he used to talk about how "rolling stone," when you helped break through in terms of putting black artists on the cover. and i don't think a lot of people understand that the music world in terms of the established media was not as inclusive as you helped to make it by cover stories, by making them pop, mainstream artists. it was almost like a surrogate, and you helped break that up. >> michael was on cover when he

was 11 years old. >> right. >> we were from the beginning devotees of rhythm and blues and understood that it came from black music. that's where it's from. so we were straightforward about it and loved the music itself and wanted to honor those people who created it, part of its soul. and really almost more than sports helped to integrate the armed forces, sports, and music was what helped integrate the country. so we were -- yes. >> i'm so sorry. i didn't mean to interrupt. >> i just wanted to add, once al came in the office years ago to speak to our board of ed or thes when he was running for president, and he just dazzled everybody with his knowledge and stories about james brown. he had us on the floor. >> he has the best stories. >> but they didn't endorse me for president. >> well, you know. >> okay. >> eh.

>> jann, i keep telling reverend al, write the book about james brown, baby. write the book. and reverend al always says, i can't print most of the stories. that's the problem. problem. so jann, help me out here. i was born in '63. most of the music that -- most of the music that -- from '64 to '70, the era i really sort of -- the british invasion to the beetles breaking up, but all the incredible things that happened over those six years, the music i listened to my entire life, never heard anything better. even going into the early '70s, listening to the eagles -- the eagles say, henry says this when he was alive -- glen fry said this when he was alive and henley said it as well, they play our songs now more than

they did back when we were together. what was it about '64 to say, '74 or '75, if we want to take "hotel california" what is it that was so extraordinary? >> it's an era in which lifestyle, politics, the spirit of youth were all aligned with the music. and a group of artists came together unique for their times, the guitar playing on "hotel california" the writing abwhat was going on today. it was a unique period in history. but also as of today, today every bit of that music is available everywhere in the world at all times free if you're carrying a phone around and therefore accessible to people who were not alive then and didn't have the opportunity to see it. look at this picture gallery, my gosh.

>> amazing. >> who are these people? i know them. and so it's lived that way. it's not the popular music of today. today's popular music is a different kind of thing, it's taylor swift, harry styles, the rap stuff, naples i have no idea who they are. but the basic rock and roll thrives and lives and will live for a long time, although it's not the music that sells records today. those acts like the eagles go on the road and they don't make money selling the records, they don't make records anymore but they make tons touring. that's great for all of us. what a benefit. i'd love to see the eagles. >> and paul mccartney just finished up a tour. >> and you, not born too late. >> apologies to don henley, who's still alive. we do a four hour show and we get tired. >> we do. i hate to ask you this with just

a few seconds left is there a favorite or most powerful cover or the cover you regretted? >> the cover i regret is the boston bomber cover, which cost us a lot. although it was a legitimate news cover and a cover, i didn't at that point understand that the american people and our readers viewed the rolling stone cover as something you earned and you deserved and conferred a little bit of heroic status, i missed that beat and it turned out to hurt a lot of people's feelings, sorry on about that. the most iconic cover is jon lennon and yono oko on the eve of his assassination. that's what they wanted to do for their new album coming out, that's the cover in the middle there. it evokes the first anniversary

issue cover of them naked together which put us on the map really and evokes death. it's been called like the monitor -- it's a really sad and super strong cover. i think it won magazine cover of the decade award or something. >> extraordinary. and i have to say the entire issue, i remember it all. i remember the incredible writing. talking about i think it was the kirk douglas movie that the author watched over and over again, kept watching it knowing how it was going to end and kept replaying jon lennon, those events knowing how it was going to end. >> chances are joe will be reading this memoir front to back as well. we're going to right now here it

is, entitled "like a rolling stone" jann wenner. thank you for coming on the show. congratulations on the book. >> pleasure to be here with everybody. >> pleasure to have you. and reverend al write your book on james brown. >> get it done. we'll be right back with a special project that reverend al is a part of premiering this weekend here on msnbc. stay with us. weekend here on msnbc. stay with us igraine - 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. so far, more than 5 million botox® treatments have been given to over eight hundred and fifty thousand chronic migraine patients. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.

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this sunday, msnbc films premiers a new four part series entitled model america which looks at the country's complicated relationship with race through the lens of new jersey, reverend al you're involved in this project. tell us about it. >> well, in 1990, a young man was shot in the back by a policeman who said he thought he

had a gun. and this is a bedroom community. i think the story here is tea neck, new jersey is a bedroom community, racial harmony was always projected as that. and all of a sudden in the middle of this police shooting, kids in the street with violence and i came over, worked with the family and the officer was indicted and acquitted and this story talks about how what was going on in the country ended up going to a community that never thought in their fondest dreams they'd end up being a location for a police brutality and racial kind of confrontation. you learn a lot. you hear all sides. his mother and sister of the deceased is there, who i worked with. but you hear the police side as well. i think people ought to watch it because it's not an urban story, it's an american story, "model america" at 10:00 p.m. right here on msnbc.

>> it'll be the premier episode, "model america" this sunday 10:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. also streaming on peacock. let's take a quick moment before we close the week for some final thoughts. joe? >> well, tip of the hat to the good people, not only of martha's vineyard but new york, chicago, across the country. yes, and in texas and florida across the country, willie, who are taking care of these refugees that come to our country. >> i share your final thought, that's what i was thinking. the humanity in an otherwise episode. opening their doors and churches, gathering food and clothing and caring for the migrants dropped onto their island. >> if these republican governors were trying to make a point not sure they succeeded in that. i think they showed the other side. the open arms for these people,

despite these people being used. >> what they did was, they wanted to, quote, own the libs and use little children to try to do that. the end, they just made the good people that opened their churches and their community centers, the good samaritans that they are. >> that does it for us this morning. on monday we'll be reporting live, covering the queen's funeral, we'll start at 5:00 a.m. eastern for all of the live events there. jose diaz-balart picks up the coverage right now. good morning, 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. the justice department is expected to appeal after a judge rejected its request to resume using classified documents seized at mar-a-lago in its criminal investigation. we're going to breakdown what happens next as the special master prepares to review the material. in ukraine, a devastating discovery. officials say they have found what could be the largest mass grave to be un