has changed a lot, even in this decade. and that is a reason to hope. thanks chris, as always. >> and thanks to you at home for being here, as we all know, very well, one of trump's loudest defenses following the fbi search of his florida beach club last month, club last month,

court in brooklyn this afternoon for their first conference with the newly in pointed trump picked special master, and judge raymond dearie. gary is a senior judge in the eastern district of new york.eis brooklyn is his turf. two hours after trump's team cast out on the government's assertion that these documents are classified, again, ca reportedly classified, with air quotes.encl yes, like this very clearly marked documents you see right now on your screen. reportedly classified. the special master, again, and pick by trump, especially says, i'm inclined to think they are indeed classified. before i read this quote, quick classical lesson here. you should know that prima flashy evidence means on the hy face of it. here is judge jerry on these documents, speaking to trump's attorneys.

the government, of course, once the classified documents off thh table for the moment at least. and i understand that. we're dealing with presumably highly sensitive information. if i'm going to verify the classification, what am i looking at? is there a claim that the document is classified that should not of been classified?th is that in play before me as a special master? is there a claim that something was labeled purposefully classified that isn't? what exactly is the nature of it? the reason i ask is if the government essentially gives me prima fasci evidence that these are classified documents, and you, team trump, decide for whatever reason not to advance any claims of classification, which i understand is your prerogative, i'm left with the prima fasci case of classified documents. and as far as i'm concerned, that's the end of it. to be clear, judge dearie, the special master, who trump's side advocated for, basically told r, trump's attorneys the government has said these documents are classified.to

unless you somehow prove otherwise, quote, that is it. or another was, limits terms, put up or shut up. even through this zinger at team trump later during the roughly 45-minute quantum fence.s quote, i guess my view out of it is, you can't have your cake and eat it. trump's attorney, james trusty, responded, sure. i just. it obviously, the court is gonna want evidence, not just pure argument. s o you can say that again. trump's attorney then pressed the judge on obtaining a proper security clearance, so team trump can view these purportedly, or pretty decidedly, classified documents. let us say that did not go so well. who's trump attorney jim trusty again. quote, we would appreciate some help from the court kind of pushing that along where we might be able to get people cleared and away where it doesn't slow anything down, andw doesn't unnecessarily hand string us if we review these documents. special master diary responded, quote, let's not belittled the fact that we are dealing with at

least potentially legitimately classified information. jury continued, the government has a very strong obligation, as all of us, to see to it that that information does not get in the wrong hands. it's not just a matter, it seems to me, being cleared. it's a matter of need to know. and if you need to know, you will know. that's the way i see it. if you need to know, you will know.te the subtext there seems to be, i'm not really sure team trump needs to know right now. special master dearie also made some announcements towards the end of the conference to concerning those documents.ea m he said, quote, if i can make m, judgments without, i don't to see the material. it's presumably sensitive material.ma if i can make my recommendation to judge cannon right or wrong, without exposing myself or you to that material, i will do it. special master dearie today weni out of his way to say he didn't want to see the classified material, and will do his best to make his recommendations without viewing it.

another point in the hearing, dearie asked the doj lawyers ed what they would do if their motion in the 11th circuit court of appeals feels.y the doj attorney replied that the department would consider its appellate options.li or, and either waits, take it to the supreme court. joining us now is josh goldstein, senior legal affairs -- who was in the courtroom today. thanks for being here. >> nice to be with you again. >> what was it like in that shl wh tm? i read the reporting, some limited transcription of what came to pass.ng did it feel like judge dearie rt was issuing a brush back to the trump legal team? and sounds like that and the written version of this.he but what was the mood like in the court? >> well, i was very cordial. it's not a judge who raises his voice. you, know a great deal. but from the very outset, the first few minutes of this 40-minute hearing, it was clear

the judge was trying to send the trump team a message, as you say, a heater, a brush back pitch, by saying, you, know if you guys want to pursue some litigation, that's fine here, but i'm not gonna allow it to delay this proceeding. and it was that kind of tone that we heard from him again and again. he let the trump lawyers have their say and it come back with some sort of rejoinder. most of those episodes that you just covered. so there was no question that there was a bit of tension, and tension around their. it seems like the trump lawyers and the judge, wednesday it was oil and water, but there are not fully nsync. they went on the same wavelength. >> well, clearly not. he keeps offering them this d ir opportunity to say, what was declassified? and they keep saying, oh, we can't put that cart before the horse. we're gonna deal with that later, after we had a chance to review these documents. >> well, that's in keeping with the sort of standard defense attorney strategy. you look for opportunities to delay because you don't want your client to face the music right away. and you look for opportunities to keep your options open.

that's the issue. some's already got on twitter and said this was all declassified, and you can do that as much as he wants. but the moment he signs a declaration under oath saying it was declassified, if somebody steps forward and says something that isn't true, he is just handed doj another charge they could file against him. so, no judge was saying here to trump's lawyers look, if that t strategy, that's fine, we're not gonna allow that to derail -- the not to be able to get, -- unless trump comes forward. or someone else, maybe one of trump's aides, like passion patel, or someone like that, once to sign a declaration saying sudden is precedence, trump said these documents were declassified. how he would know that they're the same as the hundred documents in mar-a-lago, i don't know how anyone outside the doj could know that. >> well, since like trump's team does not know what this classified documents are. they said repeatedly in the courtroom today, we don't have

an index of what was in those boxes. we're not sure. that's why we need to review them. but that's also telling, because in order to have to classified anything, you would need to know what the documents were. >> you think so. although trump is putting forward this very broad argument that there is some implicit declassification that he was, if you will, so cavalier and careless in the way he handled documents in the white house, and perhaps even down at mar-a-lago, that he took thingsn up to the lake -- lincoln bedroom, he left them strewn around the east wing of the white house, he took them down to mar-a-lago and left them strewn around their. and this was somehow implicitly declassified. i think that's the broadest trump argument. maybe they think they can level that somewhere and get some traction for it, but the judge said in this proceeding, it's not a criminal case where the government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. the burdens on trump's lawyers

to prove that this stuff wasn't classified if that is indeed a critical issue that stunt contention in this case. >> until then, unless theyn do, that he's gonna presume they are classified. i thought was really interesting. a, he's not gonna let them have access to the documents as they desperately want, and be, he himself doesn't want to look at the documents. that's how seriously he's t treating the government claims of classification. >> he's living on a fair -- leaving open the possibility that of trump's team doesn't come up with something concrete in the course of the next few weeks, that he may say, i'm gonna take the government's word for it, and i'm gonna soon whatever they say about these classified documents is true. i think there's other arguments still the trump team can put forward, and they started to put forward today that maybe some ow the documents are classified, th but personal bizarre arguments like that, and they started talking about those things in court. without contesting the classification issue right now. the question is, do they want to close down trump's options if -- having him signed something you're having his defense team commit to a strategy of saying,

these number of documents were declassified.imde >> well, the strategy seems muddled at best right now. one thing that you highlight is the fact that the lay seems to t be sort of foundational principle here. what i noticed in the reporting on what happened in the wh courtroom is that every turn -- whether it's the timeframe in which the documents can be scanned by a third party vendor, or choosing a third party vendor, every stage of this, trump's team is asking for more time. they want to take baby steps and all this. a >> right. even the request to get clearance to look at the classified documents, that two consumes time. they have to get permission from different agencies.eq sunset stone one member of trump's team has a top secret clearance right now. they would need additional clearances. so the more this gets jumbled together, that to extends the time. the judge down in florida has already said that she wants this process completed by the end of november. but realistically then, issues will be raised with her.

anything dearie decides can be ideal to the judge in florida, t and we already have issues pending at the 11th circuit. the notion this is gonna be resolved anytime and the next couple months, i think, is kind of a fantasy. and it does seem like the trump team, even though they're saying they're not seeking delay, as you say, and each instance they're requesting a somewhat longer timeframe than the government. >> it's piecemeal bargaining. we're talking about days, weeks. but it all adds up. >> to be fair, they won one of the arguments for the judge today about picking the fender. they said you can have till the end of the week. he initially wanted them to do it by tomorrow.ee he gave the trump people a few pounds. it wasn't all conflict and i i don't think he wanted to draw bright line in front of them and say, you, know this is rain coming down. >> so, does this investigation. there multiple levels taught us. we also have breaking news tonight that letitia james, the new york attorney general, is announcing she will have -- a major announcement tomorrow at

10:30. we know that this is the civil investigation into the trump t organization, and whether or not they inflated or deflated their assets basically to hoodwink loan assistance and the like. do you have a sense of what might be coming down the pipe? i know this is all supposition and prognostication. >> it does sound like what she's been promising in that apartment now for a year or two, which is some kind of massive civil case on behalf of the state of new york. perhaps on behalf of the city, or other entities in new york that may have been shredded in her view. we'll state taxes, perhaps subject to some kind of insurance fraud.xe she's gonna file some kind of case. it sounds like trump was deposed, you remember, after his ex-wife passed away. it was delayed, and back in august, he was finally deposed in this case. i think he invoked the fifth amendment more than 400 times. he fought tooth and nail to not give that deposition where he

didn't end up saying anything anyways.s. obviously, he didn't want the optics of having to invoke the fifth amendment as many times as he did. it sounds like this is where letitia james has had it. she doesn't have a lot of criminal jurisdiction. so it sounds most likely like this is the long advertised massive civil suit over tax fraud, insurance fraud, and similar issues that she's been advertising for sometime. >> sounds like being the operative face. we don't know this is gonna be an announcement about trump, but the fact that her office rejected a settlement deal in the recent weeks, the wheels of justice i've been spending with greater ferocity in recent months. perhaps this is the much awaited conclusion to a high profile investigation.tyhs josh christine, senior legal affairs reporter at politico, great to see. >> great to see. >> we have much more ahead this hour. president biden is in new york city tonight and the white house press secretary, karine jean-pierre, is gonna join me right here on set in just a few minutes. but next, trump's legal team cited the 2012 federal court i

ruling to argue the documents sir -- seized during the mar-a-lago search should be deemed personal items. the 25 case involved audio c recordings kept in former president clinton's sock drawerd no, really. former president clinton's sock drawer. that's coming up next. stay with us. 80% of couples sleep too hot or too cold. because quality sleep is vital, the sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing, so you both stay cool. our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. save 30% on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed. only for a limited time. and it's easier than ever to get your projects done right. with angi, you can connect with and see ratings and reviews. and when you book and pay throug you're covered by our happiness check out angi.com today. angi... and done.

and the legal filing today from donald trump's legal team, go on and watch that continue to try to block the justice department from even looking at the classified documents they seized from trump's beach club, even though those records are the u. s. governments on documents, and now filing today, trump's team keeps referencing a case from year 2012. the kind of premise their entire defense on it. this case from 2012, they, say proves that all those documents

the fbi seized at mar-a-lago where trump's personal property and they never should have been taken from him in the first place. that's 2012 case is called judicial watch versus the national archives and records administration. if you're thinking, to just watch? haven't i heard of them? oh boy, have you. joshua watch as a right-wing legal organization best known for flooding democratic administrations with ridiculous lawsuits. they filed 20 lawsuits over hillary clinton's emails, they filed lawsuits against government claim that scientists accusing them of fraud science, they've pushed every pro trump voter fraud conspiracy you can imagine. their founder just had his law license suspended in washington, d. c. but according to reporting from cnn, was traditional watch as president, tom -- who convinced trump he should keep these classified documents, that they were trump's personal property, i'll based on this court case.

the judicial watch, fought back in 2012. that case concerned, i'm not getting here, bill clinton's sock drawer. him when bill clinton was president, he periodically invited his old friend, historian taylor branch to the white house, with a made recordings of clinton reflecting on his presidency. the idea was after clinton left office, he would use the tapes for an autobiography. here's taylor branch talking about it in 2009, when he published his own book based on those tapes. >> he consulted me, an old friend, who had worked a lot in presidential libraries, out of the blue he asked me. what can i do to make sure the records 50 years from now will relieve psyched what's going on in the administration? and we lit on this idea of doing a secret diary. from the very beginning, it was secret, and only in the second administration to do trust me enough to say, you put them away. he had hit the ministry sock drawer in the closet in the bedroom. >> well. when judicial watch found out

about the tapes, they filed a lawsuit to get them. they said, these are official presidential records and we should have access to them like any other presidential record. the national archives and records administration, norah, countered that former president clinton had decided these tapes where his personal property. there were a personal record he made for himself. and kept us locked. or the archives weren't gonna demand that he had them over. judicial watch lost the case. the court ruled that bill clinton was within his rights to the side that is socked or tapes or personal records. based on that ruling, donald trump is claiming that he has the right to declare that all these classified documents he's hidden away at his beach club are as personal records because he set. so i'm not a lawyer, but i would say there are a number of problems here. chief among them, they would seem to be some obvious differences between some tape recordings he made a face-off,

captain your sock drawer, and, say, classified details of another country's nuclear program, as well as top secret human intelligence sources. you can't just decide another country's nuclear secrets are on personal property. that's not how any of this works. even if trump wants to claim he's decided that stuff is all personal -- let us not lose sight of the fact that these documents may never have even been presidential records. to the extent those classified documents are really federal agencies records, they're explicitly excluded by law from the definition of presidential records. these documents didn't belong to trump when he was president and they certainly do not know that he is a private citizen. joining us now is nbc news presidential historian in michael beschloss. thanks for being here. >> my pleasure. great to see you, alex. >> so, michael, take a senate timing back to the 1990s. bill clinton's and his buddy, taylor branch, are sitting in

the west wing making tapes to be used and some forthcoming autobiography of some sort. can you contrast that with trump's alleging regarding these classified documents he scrawled away at mar-a-lago? >> sure. i've even talked to bill clinton and taylor branch about those tapes. they specifically, bill clinton said, these are private records sitting beside. if you've got a president, for instance, who sends love letters to his wife, are those protection? or convict judicial watch subpoena that is and publish them in the newspapers while the president to serving? of course not. and the same way, donald trump has absolutely no right to say that highly classified documents with, let's, a nuclear secrets, if that's what these are, or lists of friends of cia agents in foreign countries, or other things that can be used to harm americans and make them vulnerable to terrorists, if you just as, you know, those are my private documents. i can do what i like with them. it's ridiculous and this will

not survive the test. >> it's amazing how many times if you read the transcripts, how many times they cite the sock dry case. we talk about presidential records as if it's like, scrapbook keeping. or in this scenario, trump's team wants us to believe that these are souvenirs. presidential records on the presidential records act came about after a very specific chapter in american history. can you talk about why the perry, the presidential records act, is important? and what it signified in a post nixon era? >> okay. i'll take my time machine back to the 1970s when richard nixon was leaving office. you get a lot of embarrassing documents. people who visited the west wing at the time he was leading notice that there are a lot of fireplaces working overtime, and the acrid smell of documents

being burned. plus, nixon had arranged to happen military planes illicitly take some of these documents out to where he was going for his retirement. finally, he made a deal with the new president that he never should've made which side, there's gonna be a -- california. it sounds like something and a hitchcock film. walter, california, nixon's -- one key to be held by the national archives, the other key to be held by richard nixon, with the suggestion that if nixon decided to use his key and destroy every document that was embarrassing to him, he can do it. congress and the american people find out and this act was passed in 1970. tom it's the most everything the president produces in terms of documents during his presidency is the property of the american people, and has to remain within their hands. it can't be sold by a president. even more so, as you're saying, alex, classified documents, especially from another agency are not just souvenirs that trump can sell to a hostile government or terrorists, or show to visitors to mar-a-lago. those whose secrets that can be used by people who hate america to kill our children.

under the law, they're supposed to be in a national archives fault under heavy guard. i'm not sitting around mar-a-lago with people walking in. trump can sell to a hostile government or terrorists, or show to visitors to mar-a-lago. those whose secrets that can be used by people who hate america to kill our children. under the law, they're supposed to be in a national archives fault under heavy guard. i'm not sitting around mar-a-lago with people walking in. >> it really feels like the parallels between what happened with nixon, our president intent on destroying records, keeping things involved with only a single or two keys, the parallels between that mar-a-lago are stunning and airy. michael beschloss, nbc news, presidential historian, thank you so much for your time and wisdom, michael. >> pleasure. love it. thank, you alex. >> still ahead on this, our soldiers in ukraine continue the fight to take back that country, i will talk to one of their own, a ukrainian combat medic who's live onset.

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>> president biden just arrived here in new york city a few hours ago for the united

nations general assembly. it's expected to speak to the 193 member body tomorrow, rallying support for ukraine as that country continues to fight back russian forces. the white house says biden will lay out his plan for american foreign policy at the un as he juggles a number of other items on the home front, and ongoing immigration situation at the border. rogue republican governors, looming midterms, and the end by the middle of a pandemic. joining us now is karine jean-pierre, the white house press secretary who is here in new york with president biden's u. s. delegation to the un general assembly. kareem, welcome to new york. >> thank you for having me. congratulations on the show. >> thank. you congratulations to you. congrats all around. i want to talk about the rogue republican governors first because today, governor ron desantis in florida, it was reported them, there was a suggestion he might be flying a plane of migrants to president biden's home state of delaware. that plane landed moments ago, an hour ago, i'm not as sack the share of the timeframe, and it was empty.

it would seem to suggest that desantis was aware that president biden had his number. i know you commented on this political ploy earlier. but the face-off between republican governors and this administration is pretty posh. i wonder, internally, or not internally, as the president reached out to these governors? >> here's the thing. i was asked this question earlier today. i don't know why we would reach out to a governor or governors who are clearly playing a political game. it is something they're doing not to find a solution, but to literally put peoples lives at risk. we're talking about people who are fleeing communism, we're talking about folks who are leaving venezuela, leaving cuba, because there are regimes there that are incredibly dangerous. and they're using these children, these families, as political pawns after dealing

with the political stress that they're dealing from another country. so that's not the solution. that's a political game that they're playing. and so what we're doing is we're calling that out because it's dangerous. when you leave kids on the side of the road of a busy busy street, that's dangerous. we've heard from these families saying that they were worried, they were scared, that they didn't know it was happening, what was going on, and it is incredibly shameful. the question around the, governor desantis, as what he talking to the people in florida? folks who are from those countries, that you are using these folks as a political pawn, as a political game. look, we've always been ready on day one. the president said he put forward his immigration legislation, and comprehensive piece of legislation, and he said let's figure out how we fix

this broken system. but instead, that's not what they want to do. they don't want to vote for historic amount of funds that would go to dhs to deal with this issue. they don't want to work on real solutions. so we're gonna call that out, alex. >> i understand that. this is clearly political gamesmanship, if you will. and it's not incumbent on the person who's not playing that game to call them. it shows that joe biden is the kind of president you think -- i mean, this is a kind of president he proposed himself to be as a candidate. who would say, cut it out. whether that would make any difference to governor abbott and ron desantis is an open question. it might not. but in terms of the crisis on the border, something that directly needs to be addressed, i want to talk about where the white house is that in terms of solutions. we have some reporting from nbc.

dhs officials have presented the white house with some auctions including flying migrants to the northern border, canada, to alleviate crowding on the u. s. mexican border. migrants will be sent to such cities as los angeles, where shelters would get an advanced warning to have time to prepare for the influx. i know some people are gonna say, sending migrants on planes -- weight, allow ballots. tell me how that's meaningfully different from what desantis and abbott are doing. >> let me just say a couple things about what's happening at the border. dhs put out a report playing out what kind of migration situation

we're dealing with, which is very new. i mentioned venezuela and nicaragua, cuba, we've seen an increase of about 100 and 21% tom since last year of what's going on with these countries that are fleeing communism. that's gone up. if you look at not central america in the last three months, we've seen a decrease of about 43%. so we're in a different kind of migration -- we have to deal with where we are. the way we work this thing is there's title 42, which is a tight -- cdc health authority. it's not an immigration authority. what we've been able to do and the past 19 months, and the past year, as we've seen a very much

increase, a historic increase, of people we've been able to expel out of the country. so that is something that we've been able to do. look, the system is broken. we know that. it was decimated by the last administration. and what we're trying to do is fix something that has had decades and decades of deterioration. when you look at the system. so what we're asking is where axing to really fix it in a way that is trans formative. we're asking republicans, instead of playing political games, why don't you join us in trying to fix the real problem that's happening at the border? >> so these measures title 42, a trump era holdover, flying migrants to other cities, you see this as a skunk dot gap measure. >> because we have to fix what's actually broken. >> yeah. >> right? if we don't do that, we're not truly addressing an issue that is affecting all of us. and so, look, the border is not open, we're doing everything that we can to make sure that we're dealing with this issue. it's a crisis that has been decimated. the system has been decimated by the last administration, and so we have to do everything that we can. but again, these political games, we're gonna call them out. they're really inhumane and inappropriate. >> maybe joe biden should

fly down to florida and visit ron desantis. i'm gonna stop with the joe biden run desantis thing. but one good turn deserves another. i wanna ask you about covid. >> okay. >> and how you think of this pandemic in the white house. right? on 60 minutes, president biden says, we still have a problem with covid. we're still doing a lot of work on it. but the pandemic is over. now, does he think the pandemic is over? >> so let me just put this into context a little bit. when he was asked this question, he was walking through the detroit auto show which had not been open, or had not been held, i should say, and three years. even as we're talking about unga, he's going to unga, and it hasn't been held in person and three years. so, we're in a different place because of the work that this administration has done. because we're prepared, because this treatment, because there are vaccines, because there are tests. and you look at where we are

today, 90% -- when we walked in, the deaths were about 3000 a day. which is really awful. that's what we are seeing. now, that number has gone down by 90%. if you think about schools are now open, businesses are now open, because of the work of what this administration is done. so he's saying, it is not disruptive as it was before. we are in a different place, and he's been consistent and saying that. but, there's still more work to do. in order to be able to continue to get this vaccine, for this next generation, if you will, of vaccines and treatments, we have to keep doing the work. that's why are asking congress, hey, we need that funding to continue what we've been doing. 220 million people are fully vaccinated. why is that? it's because of the work that this administration has done. it's 77% of the population. again, it's not as disruptive as it was before. we're managing this now. we know it works. we have the tests. we have the vaccines. we have the treatment. but again, we have to think

about the future. >> yeah. i believe it's only 34. 7% of the country got their second booster. we still have 400 people dying a day, and by the way, 21% of americans who caught covid have long covid, which is a whole another wave of this. so i'm trying to glean the essence of this. it's not over, we are seeing some kind of light at the end of the tunnel, but we're still in the tunnel. >> we are -- >> is that what you feel? >> yes. and here's the thing, americans are feeling about themselves. that's why when he was walking through the halls of the detroit auto show, he pointed out how people were not wearing masks, and now the auto show is open again, and that matters for folks. right? this is a different time than we were when we walked in, january of 2021. that is because of what we've been able to do.

a comprehensive vaccination program that we have been able to put forth. because it was so important to manage this the right way in order to turn our economy back on, in order to get our schools open, in order to get him -- save some of these small businesses, get back going again. and that's when he's talking about. and is not disrupting our lives. not the way it has been. it's not controlling our lives the way that it has been. do we have more work to do? yes. and he actually said that, as you just laid out in his comments. >> we are onset, unmasked, things have changed. there's no doubt about that. karine jean-pierre, thanks so much. >> thank, you alex. >> you have a busy schedule, thanks for joining us on set. great to see. >> great to see. oh >> i'm next, i'll be joined live right here on set by a member of the ukrainian military. we'll look here firsthand at what life on the frontline's life, and how people are feeling as ukrainian counterattacks recapture territory from russia. stay with us.

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but does it for us tonight we'll see again tomorrow. now it's time for the last word is. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. he pointedly said if you don't present any evidence to me, trump, then i am left with the records that i have. i have evidence that these documents are classified. if you decide for whatever reason you do not want to present any evidence, that's fine. you don't have to. but he then went ahead and said then this case becomes very easy. >> that's formerer mueller prosecutor ann true wiesman breaking down how the judge responded to trump's legal team in the first special master hearing. we'll wal