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an estimated 15% of their valuation. do you think the market is overreacting? how'd you know that? the company profile tool, in thinkorswim®. yes, i love you!! other are good at all of you please ignore that. td ameritrade. award-winning customer service that has your back. from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome to alex witt reports. developing this hour, new details on what we can expect from the january 6th committee's public hearing on wednesday. earlier today, jamie raskin gave nbc news fresh insight into what may or may not be the committee's last public hearing. >> what we are going to do on wednesday is fill in those details that have come to the potential -- it may be the last investigative public hearing.

we are going to try to round out of the factual narrative. i'm hopeful that we will have a hearing that lays out our legislative recommendations about how to prevent coups, insurrections, political violence, electoral sabotage. >> there are two big guidelines this week from the special master reviewing the records seized at mar-a-lago. the doj has until tomorrow to certify they have provided a full and accurate list of items found. trump's legal team has until friday to dispute the fbi's a list. also today, new polling is getting a look at how the race for control of congress is tightening with 43 days until the midterm elections. in a new cbs news battleground poll, republicans lead in the house. they are projected to win two or 23 seats in november, down three seats from august. seven down from july. it is still within the margin of error. a new poll from the washington post and abc news shows voters are nearly split on party

control of the house. 47% say they would vote for a republican compared to 76% who say they would support a democrat. both numbers are within the margin of error. earlier today on meet the press, republican congresswoman nancy mace gave new insight into what could happen if republicans take control of the house. >> and you expect an impeachment vote against president biden if republicans take over the house? >> i believe there is a lot of pressure on republicans to have that vote, to put that legislation forward and have that vote. i think that is something that some folks are considering. >> joining me right now is jacqueline alamo knee, washington post congressional -- as well as charles coleman, former brooklyn, new york prosecutor and an msnbc legal analyst. a big welcome to you both. we're going to begin with some new reaction to the allegations made by a former investigator on the january 6th house panel.

this was a call between the white house switchboard and a writer that happened during the capitol attack. the full interview on this airs tonight on 60 minutes, but let's listen to this part. >> when you see that the white house switchboard had connected to a rioters phone well it's happening, that's a bit aha moment. you get an hour -- >> wait a minute. someone in the white house was calling one of the riders while the riot was going on? >> absolutely. >> i only know one end of the call. i don't know the white house and. >> that's one of thousands of details that the committee is aware of. to me, it's interesting, but much less interesting than the fact that donald trump told the crowd in public, you have to fight like hell. >> this says the call came from inside the white house. >> i can't say anything specific about that particular call. we are aware of it. we are aware of lots of contacts white house and different people that were

obviously, in the coup attempt , you report on how members are rankled by his decision to write a book. while we don't know many more details, including who placed the call, what it was about and where if it's in the january six committee also remains elusive at this point. what are you learning from your reporting on all of this? >> yeah, alex. we received a statement about the claims that riggleman made on 60 minutes. timothy told the committee has run down all of those leads, digested analyzed all the information that a war was from the work that riggleman did on connecting the dots on phone records, suggesting that the investigative please did not materialize in the way that riggleman put forward in a

rather tantalizing manner. we have also learned that in the broader scheme of riggleman's book, committee members were largely unaware that this was coming out just a day before their final hearing. again, they were rankled by the fact that riggleman miss lead staff about his decision to write about. he told him he was resigning in april to pursue an opportunity to help a nonprofit in ukraine. we know that he was actually -- his book agent was contacting agents. when senior staff confronted him about rumors circulating that he was planning to write a book, he told them he was not. in a later subsequent conversation prior to his departure, he said that he was going to be writing a book, but that it would not be published before the end of the year. again, you have seen the committee continue to sort of subtly say that riggleman's

involvement in the broader scheme of the committee's work was fairly limited as he was only there for the first half of the investigation. >> this is quite extraordinary, this whole back and forth, particularly considering the extent to which the committee has gone to prevent any kind of leak. they have been really good about keeping a lid on everything up until now. as this possibly lasts hearing a set for wednesday, when the committee has been light on details, what we are going to expect wednesday, what do you expect? do you think this is a grand finale? >> yeah. alex, one thing we do know about this committee is that they have consistently undersold what they eventually reveal. we've heard scanty tales about wednesdays hearing. we know that they do appreciate shock value and making a splash-y surprise impact. the amount of details that we have about what they are going

to put forth on wednesday are very fake. we have heard from some sources that part of the hearing could be about the former presidents intent. we've also heard that on like past hearings that followed a chronological order and we're focused and conceived of around various themes, this hearing will be a little bit more desperate in that way, contrasting with the other hearings. it could be about a range of different topics. we are hearing that this will be the final one. we have three more days before it happens to figure out what it is going to be about. >> and to see what liz cheney might have been referring to. let's move on to the mar-a-lago matter. the special master in this case gave the department of justice -- a full and accurate list of items seized at mar-a-lago

alex, you might not know this about me, but i'm probably one of the biggest star wars fans that you know. the fact that he thought that he could jedi mind trick the judicial system is quite frankly abhorrent to me. star wars fans everywhere -- all jokes aside, i will say that if his attorneys felt like there were things that they could plausibly maintain that he had declassified, they would have done that in the numerous pleadings as well as their initial letter to the fbi if you recall. one of the respect to the -- the affidavit that was revealed around the search warrant was a letter from team trump to the fbi. they talked about the powers of declassification that the president had. what they did not do was illuminate or enumerate anything that he had actually declassified. if you know your client has

declassified things and you can stand on that, that would have been laid out not just then, but several times since. the fact they hadn't shows very clearly that they were not confident and being able to stake that claim, which is why they reserved it. i think that judge dearie has really pushed them on this. what you are going to see is them stop trying to advance the notion that, listen, they can think about these things. that process was not engaged. that's why they have not identified these things. they will not try to. >> i appreciate you, charles coleman. i'm also a star wars fan. last question to you, jacqui. where do you expect things to go this week? how do you see it playing out? >> sorry, alex. we have a barking dog at the moment. >> that's okay. >> i do think that this week is going to be extremely telling. there is not much more i can add to charles's student analysis of the situation. the trump legal team thought they were going to get an easier bet with raymond dearie.

he is actually asking them to back up the former president's fraudulent claims of the fbi taking documents that they should not have taken or that they had documents that they weren't actually taking to combat some of this disinformation that has taken a hold with a substantial amount of trump supporters. i think we're going to see this proceed in a fairly normal and -- way that it should in terms of the process. judge dearie himself has 11,000 documents to get through. it seems like he is eager to get this done expeditiously so that the investigation can come to a conclusion in the coming months. >> absolutely. jacqueline o'malley and charles coleman, thank you both so much. turning to the breaking news as we are tracking tropical storm ian, which is expected to

intensify into a hurricane in the next couple of days. florida is in a state of emergency. it comes after former hurricane fiona slammed through parts of eastern canada, knocking out power for 350,000 people. the storm is behind a -- 12 suspected deaths in puerto rico, one confirmed death and guadeloupe, and another confirmed death in the dominican republic. and we cease stephanie stanton isn't dunedin, florida, barack to begin with and we see news meteorologist bill karen's. let's take a look at ian and what we are looking at right now. yeah, we still have a lot of questions. we have to know first of all where it's going to go, and what's the intensity going to be when it gets. that goes the two big. things historically, the track forecasts are lot better than the intensity forecast. this time, there's still a lot of questions about. let me explain. to give you the latest on the hurricane center, is eligible. storm it is not really begun to get its act together to really strengthen. we think it will later on tonight, and then all day tomorrow. as of now, is just kind of a blog on the screen.

moving to the northwest at 14 right now it's pretty much do. south grand cayman. it's going to start taking his truck up towards the gulf. maybe clipping areas of western cuba. notice the hurricane center has it all the way up to a major hurricane, by tuesday morning. this is a rapid intensification process over very warm water. we hope it doesn't, if it doesn't, great. that's all the better when it gets to florida. it's a category four by the time we get to wednesday morning. by wednesday morning the conditions get less favorable. where the jets fly, they get very strong. it's going to share the thunderstorms apart. if it's more before pope mire, it's not gonna have as much time to weaken as much it's going to have -- a weaker storm. if it was the tampa area to fort myers, it would be a category one or two just to

give you an idea between a panhandle landfall, and down towards tampa. as far as you go to the tropical wind source, most likely, right now, that's the hurricane forecast up towards tallahassee. i do believe that tampa, the cedar key, the most area, all the way over there towards panama city, that is going to be the area that has the best chance of tropical storm force gusts. the latest models are american models, they're shown just off the coast, but the european model for the top of tampa. the whole west coast of florida is at risk north naples and then over to panama city pensacola. our computer spaghetti lines these command every six hours we check on them to get a trend we notice and nothing is near miami fort lauderdale it appears safe, no direct land sal. no direct landfall very. there and between, that pensacola and sarasota, those are the areas that we still need to narrow down. no matter what, alex.

these are going to be a big rain event once it does reach landfall. we don't worry about florida, because the sandy soil soaks and pretty well. once a southern -- we will have some issues with. that of course, these are flood prone cities when you get heavy rain. those oral stories we'll be watching in the days ahead. thank you so much for doing that, much appreciated. let's go now to nbc stephanie stanton who's antony to florida. let's talk about the folks there. i'm sure they appreciate the forecasts for -- how serious are they taking this threat? yeah, alex. >> at this point, folks who are taking it very seriously. they have come out here and they are putting their hands to the shovel, they are filling the sandbags. i am here in genetic florida. this is about 30 miles northwest of tampa. we are on the water here. this is a coastal resort, city of about 36,000 people. we heard bills forecast there.

this city, and pretty much all the tempo right now, is in that cone of uncertainty. that is why officials are urging people to take this very seriously. let me show you a little bit more about what's happening here. the city officials here have been dumping truckloads of sand, tons of sand all day long. they started at 8:00 this morning. they are seeing very long lines. here it is very orderly, it's very organized. everyone here is helping each other. everyone here is in good spirits. i did speak to the fire chief here and the city of benitez, he says that they are on full alert as we move forward, as the season develops into a hurricane as expected. he also wanted to warn people to make sure that they heed orders to evacuate, if and when those orders come down. he says there will come a point in the storm when officials may not be able to help everyone in need. on >> for the safety of the firefighters, we do have our limitations. any people living on boats, around the water, will be

pulling our resources, our fireboat. to be able to facilitate water rescues, -- and then also, when the storm heightens to generally 50 miles an hour sustained winds, will shut down when it comes on safe to operate our apparatus, our vehicles on the road, and then we'll just have to wait down as soon as it becomes safe to go outside. we'll be back out to help. >> and that is why and storms, for people who choose not to evacuate, should there be a storm surge, should they get into trouble, they've had to wait it out. we've seen that happen in many other major storms. in addition to what's happening here with the sand bags, we are also seeing preparations being made all across the state, not just here in the tampa area, but in orlando, down in fort myers. that is people buying supplies. they have been buying up supplies like bottled water, we are seeing empty store shelves, gasoline, were seen a lot

aghast a shuns, alex, that have run out of fuel. people are taking it seriously. >> as well they show it, giving those forecasts. okay, stephanie stanton, thank you so much for that. it is one reason why referendum in ukraine is being called a sham. russian soldiers reportedly going door to door to correct votes. it comes amid a pre-seen signs of a desperate vladimir putin. it's this new threat to use nukes to be taken seriously? or is he bluffing? that's next. that'sex nt. way to treat hiv. it's every-other-month, injectable cabenuva. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider every other month. it's one less thing to think about while traveling. hiv pills aren't on my mind. a quick change in my plans is no big deal. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression.

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are following today. growing protests around the world. iranian woman who, according to the hospital, died three days after police took her into custody. she was arrested for allegedly violating the country strictly enforce islamic dress code. global condemnation continues as russia holds referendum votes in four key regions in ukraine, where russia believes it's taking control. when local ukrainian mayor

shared this video on telegram, he says that shows armed members of the pro-russian military knocking on doors to get people to vote. msnbc's news have not been able to verify these accusations, however, the west have declared this a sham, and shows proof of -- >> it's not a sign of strain. that's not a sign of confidence. quite the opposite. it's a sign that he is struggling very badly and ukraine with the russian army is struggling badly. he doesn't have a lot of options left. >> joining me, now glenn watts, former cia fbi agent from army ranger, now distinct research fellow at the -- research institute and msnbc national security analyst and contributor, which we're grateful for. welcome. what do you think of the white house's assessment? how is this referendum related to what's happening on the battlefield? >> yeah, just real quick, i was not cia agents, i don't want people to think that.

>> you're still cool. >> thanks. in terms of referendum, this is just a way for me -- to put himself in a position where he can claim that those our russian lands, that referendum is nothing more than a sham. everyone that's inside southern ukraine knows that. president zelenskyy knows that. when ukraine says is this perception, internationally, that's what they're going to argue. and he attacked that goes against this -- puts more stress on the nato cooperation with ukraine. this creates an extra wrinkle. overall, it's entirely and effective. everyone knows that this is a press. a comes down to how well will putin secure this territory overtime, because he clearly has not gained ground in the country, or the support of the population, despite the sham vote. he controls that terrain overtime. >> clint, we've seen these images of all those russians fleeing since putin announced

the mobilization. is this an effective tool for putin? should he be going into battle with unwilling soldiers, or those who have never had experiences. 38-year-old was quoted in the new york times, or, or those who are so much older, they're using soldiers who are in the 30s, 40s, 50s. this is the folks who are being drafted, if you will. it's been a while since they've seen combat. my >> gab, it's not a plan. i think that's the key point, alex. both the mandatory conscription they're trying to do with the occupied territories, combined with his older generation of former reservists. it's not going to work. you can't just just these individuals up. some announcements of two weeks of training, heading to the front line, that is not a plan that is going to work. ukrainian military has been last one month. over the last they

instead, what will probably see is a lot of deserters going to the front line. a lot of them not willing to. fight even when you look at some of the horse conscription's going on in the occupied territories, these are people who, i think minorities for example, who don't even want to be wilbur russia. there was a shift to some degree. i don't understand how this is going to play out overtime in a way that russia is going to be able to gain ground. i just don't imagine it. >> it feels like the sacrificial lambs going here at this point. that is why there are so many trying to flee. as you know, the white house is sending a stark message to putin over his most recent comments, two -- here's what president zelenskyy said about putin's threat. he said it today. >> these are the first steps of his nuclear blackmail. i don't think he's bluffing. i think the world is to turn, and containing this threat.

>> realistically, clint, what can the white house, what can the rest of the world do about this? apart from engaging in tit-for-tat nukes, which no one wants to see. >> yeah, alex, i don't think that's on the table. it's not unrealistic. i think we have to remember that there's a range of nuclear options for vladimir putin. was likely what he's talking about is short range tactical needs that would be used inside the conflict. i'm very worried that we're at a point where it doesn't really matter what nato in the u.s. does, he would use that to essentially block against a defeat. meaning, for vladimir putin, this is different than a democracy. when he leaves, there is no election up into appointing a new person. we don't know who would be in charge. i think he's quite worried about an internal coup at this point because the war is not gone the way he said he was going to. the casualties have been enormously high. six months ago, i had written an article in the washington

post about this topic, which is a nuclear flood is very real. it's different than anything we've calculated in the past. then what would we do an exchange. i know there is been dire consequences, probably as realistic -- for the nuclear weapons and response. it will set up a chain reaction of events that we have not seen, really, and any mystery of war there. i think if vladimir putin feels threatened, as leader of russia, he would not take a loss and to use all options on the table. that's why i think president zelenskyy says its nuclear blackmail west, nato, in ukraine, but it's also poker should be trying to play. >> gotta say, it's so. ground that is for sure. let's talk very quickly about the protests in iran. give me an assessment about how the u.s. is responding to the civil rights issues there. >> it's pretty remarkable. many probably don't remember the end of the 2000s, there was the beginning of the green revolution. that was largely social media inspired -- lots of posts, it was in the

context of pre-arab spring. this is quite different. it's not something that i think many people are anticipating. there seems to be a natural bit of resistance. the video there isn't ticket of a bet. the scale of the protests is really, you know, not been addressed. we have not heard enough about media and -- i think the u.s. response is -- they had to be quite careful. not only about provoking conflict with the, rotten or becoming an instigator and the reason behind it, but let it unfold naturally, -- those kinds of things, naturally. the u.s. in the west just have a lot on the plate right now. russia, and turkey, crane, china, in terms of different policies, they have a very impressive statement from taiwan community china this week. there is a lots to be handled. i think if you take some time and see -- i wouldn't be surprised, really,

if we saw an arab spring kind of revolt against the leaders in tehran. it's a see this come up, and how much natural -- >> it has been remarkable, for sure. are all, right clan, thanks. beyond the duma glue be the economy, there is bright spots and silver linings. we'll share that with, you. next you next for the all-new subway series menu the new monster has juicy steak and crispy bacon. but what about the new boss? it looks so good it makes me hangry! settle down there, big guy the new subway series. what's your pick? (vo) with their verizon private 5g network, associated british ports can now precisely orchestrate nearly 600,000 vehicles passing through their uk port every year. don't just connect your business. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) make it even smarter. we call this enterprise intelligence. oh, that i can't believe i scored this price feeling! wayfair always delivers small prices for big dreams.

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now, where were we? [ cheering ] i think i changed my mind about these glasses. now, where were we? yeah, it happens. that's why visionworks gives you 100 days to change your mind. it's simple. anything else i can help you with? like what? visionworks. see the difference. the state of the economy looms as the major issue over the midterms. about three and four say their economy is at a not so good, or poor. meanwhile, the housing market is essentially -- in many parts of the country. -- to feel the effects of rising interest rates, but there are some silver linings with these headlines. nbc's weijia louise can look at that for. as what we're going to begin with the housing market, with nbc scott -- who is in california, not new jersey. all right, scott.

what do you dig about the umpires there? >> yeah this is in the san francisco bay area, alex. this is been very hot market in the recent past. also, what are your from buyers. force you to find the buyer. is there a lot tougher to come by than they were. anyone who sell in a coat could tell you that. -- the national numbers or burn that. outlook at all the housing market has really just sort of hit the brakes. home sales down 20% from a year ago. the medium price for homes on the market is up by about 23%. i think some of those numbers are, those numbers on your screen or not correct. 20% decrease in home sales, 23% rise in inventory. there's a lot more on the market. yet, the price of holmes as rising in roughly about the rate of inflation. now, this kind of thing does get some buyers into the market so sees an opportunity. like the guy we saw on seattle. he said the marcus is now a lot

less frenzy than it was, that's a good thing. >> the market now is, i guess you could say, it's cooled off a little bit. it is not the way it was a year ago when everyone was trying to spend $200,000 over asking price, that kind of thing. it was very much a sellers market. everyone is really -- now is calm down a beds, inspection contingency, isn't -- >> that is the kind of balance that federal reserve policy makers are going for with their fifth rate increase this year, this past week, in the housing market is one of the things that's -- talks about in his news conference this week. we are not where we need to be, particularly in terms of affordability. those mortgage interest rates have risen considerably along with the fed rates. now we're looking at interest rates that are roughly double where they were a year ago. that is impacting the affordability. there you see, 6.3% now, those

are rates we haven't seen since 2008. that means that the monthly payment they will have to shell out for a medium priced home is now 1861. of 50% from where it was a year ago. this is a great illustration of why it causes a lot of pain when you try to ring inflation out of the economy. alex, as they say, typically, as the housing market goes, so goes the rest of the economy. >> i've heard that many a time. all right, scott. thanks for that. now for some good news on the economy. let's go right, with no case at all, without delay, i should say, haste to nbc richard louis. good news, we want to hear it. >> alex, as many advisers say, don't leave your money on autopilot. gas prices, for, instance are all lying that. this, week they went up four cents a three 71. silver lining, it was the first surprise that we saw in almost 100-day long downward streak. in some cities, economists say you may still see more drops.

let's turn to jobs. 11 billion jobs available. that is an all-time record for -- these want -- new polling saying two out of three feel confident about work prospects and the coming year. for those in the market for a new home, we were just talking about some relief, pluses, as was noted, falling 6% in august from record peaks in june. for example, we haven't seen that in almost a decade. some studies, like phoenix, enjoying even sweeter discounts. down here, as you see, $35,000. for the one and three home buyers, tired or pushed to the sidelines because of high prices. today's discounts may cause a surge of free energized fires. alex, stay with silver linings, these buyers refinance, with rates level up, they could make a nice -- >> so nice of you to bring us the silver linings, i appreciate that, my friend. thank, you richard. the pulse of america, with 43

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i literally just said that. i like her better than you the new subway series. what's your pick? >> 44 days to the midterms, and a deeply divided electorate will determine whether control of the house and senate shift from democrats to republicans. but president biden is making a promise to americans who cast a vote to democrats. >> with 46 days, america has to

choose. if republicans win control of congress, for abortion will be banned. but if you give me two more democratic senators of the united states senate, i promise you, we are going to codify roe. >> democrats hoping to hold on to their slim majorities in congress will have to contend with a republican party increasingly focused on crime and border security. studies show those issues are gaining ground among potential voters over issues that favor democrats, like abortion and investigations into former president trump. joining me now is jonathan alter, writer of the substack newsletter, old goats, and an msnbc contributor. we're glad to have you as always, jonathan. here we go. these two parties are running almost parallel campaigns, you have republicans right now focused on inflation, crime, immigration. you have democrats targeting abortion as well as trump's takeover of the republican party. recent data that we've seen

shows internet searches related to immigration and crime are surpassing abortion after that issue just skyrocketed to the top when russia was overturned. and he concerns for you on this, going into november? >> when you look at an election, anything that relates to peoples attention and what they're focused on is a matter of concern and interest. but i wouldn't be too concerned about this. this is a very, very competitive election. remember, immigration has been in the news because of governor desantis's stunt. a lot of those searches relate to what's in the news. of course, the biggest search of all, recently, would be queen elizabeth. right? so, it doesn't necessarily tell you what they election is going to turn on. but it may be that abortion is losing a little bit of its own, as a divining issue in this election. that's just encourage democrats

to redouble their efforts. look, alex, this is a turnout question. that's always the issue in midterms. but 130 million americans voted in presidential years, 80 million, roughly, in midterms. the turnout is almost everything. if the turnout is what it was in the 2014 midterms, the democrats are in a lot of trouble. if turnout is more what it was like in 2018, when it was up 13% over 2014, then democrats, you know, they will likely hold the senate. and they will make the house very competitive. >> you talk about 2018, which was a lot of repudiation of donald trump. so, out to that end, when you look at democrats right now focusing on the trump malfeasance, all the legal issues, everything that's going on, is that a winning strategy for them? >> i think it is, in combination with focusing on

rights. the right to vote, the right to have reproductive rights. if they take these two issues, the menace that trump and his supporters posed to american democracy and the need to reassert our rights, those are two quite powerful issues. are they more powerful than the economy? we don't know yet. we don't even know what the september inflation figures will be, that will be a very important statistic, just a few days from now. to see whether things are moving in the right direction, at the gas pump. >> yeah, that could definitely play and certainly early voting sentiments. just over half of american say that former president trump should be charged with crimes for his handling of the classified documents. his fundraising, or for his actions related to january six. back in the 1990s, trump threatened to sue you, jonathan, for defamation.

so, i think we know where you stand on this. however, should democrats keep him at the center of their strategy? as you consider his continued popularity, confounding as it may be to some. >> yeah, but it's very important for democrats to have him be a continued focus of their attacks. because that is what drives democratic turnout. this isn't a persuasion election, it's not about persuading trump voters to suddenly become democrats. but by the way, you talk about how popular he is, he's never been popular. never been over 50%. so, he makes a lot of noise, but let's not confuse that with -- you know, he's lost the popular vote into presidential elections, by significant margins. and he lost in congress in 2018. i think democrats need to focus on the threat that he and his

supporters posed to democracy, particularly in some of these races that nobody is paying attention to. for instance, for secretary of state in nevada and in arizona. in nevada, there is a democratic candidate named cisco aguilar, running against an election denier named jim marchant. a guy who believes that democrats are titled to win elections. in arizona, it's even more dire right now. you have a candidate named adrienne fandos running for secretary of state against a guy named mark finchem, who is an oath keeper. let me just focus on this for a second for you. if an oath keeper, a guy who believes that any election that democrats win is illegitimate and he has control of the machinery of government, it basically means no democrat can win arizona in 2024 if he is

elected. these races for secretary of state, in two or three key states, have been ignored by democrats who are too focused on congress. they could lose the house and it's not the end of the world. you lose the secretary of state races, big problems in 2024. >> a threat to democracy. i, mean they cannot be underscored enough. okay, my friend, a student tells us as always. thank you, jonathan. my next guest knows donald trump's business finances better than most. it's case on the new york civil fraud suit and how the former president is defending himself, next. you try crazy things... ...because you're crazy... ...and you like it. you get bigger... ...badder... ...faster. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing...

and power is a very good thing. ♪ more now on that civil suit

filed by attorney general letitia change the trump organization. david evans joins me now. the new york times business editor and author of dark towers, deutsche bank, donald trump, in an epic trail of destruction. his new book, and service of the dam, donald trump and the corruption of justice. welcome, david. your first book, dark towers, digs pretty deeply into deutsche bank, which gives loans like these to donald trump. as you've heard earlier in the broadcast, trump is alleging the bank should not have trusted their filing. should they have known better? >> oh, they absolutely should

have known better. i think in some cases, in georgia wing's case, they did know better. the question really to me is whether the internet general is going to be able to prove that as a result of trump's exaggerating, hyping, in line, the banks agreed to give him loans on better terms than they otherwise would have. having read in detail the 200 plus -- complaints. there is some evidence that suggests that a lease the interest rates that trump receives on his -- 's embellishments were affected, and i think there's a good chance that that is a strong arguments. it's anyone's guess. >> the trump claims he paid back's loans as very little debt. unbelievably little debt is what he said. is that believable? could that be a viable defense? >> no, i don't think it has anything to do with the question of whether or not he misled, deliberately misled,

fraud -- from his financial partners. he has a majority -- but he once owed to deutsche bank, and he still has a fortune $5 million of debt owed to them. he still has hundreds of millions of dollars of debt, outstanding to other banks. he is, there is some truth to the fact that relative to other people in the real estate industry, trump is not as burdened with that as others. that's immaterial to the question of whether he is guilty of trying to commit fraud. >> david, trump's children, don junior, eric ivanka, they were all implicated. how involved they bennett hyping the asset value of the properties? >> in some cases, there are civil complete is replete with references. -- through a clean, heavily, regularly involved in communicating with their personal bankrate deutsche bank,

who is lobbying internally for these loans. she and her brothers all new that trump, hurt their father, was routinely -- not just banks and insurance companies, but also journalists. i think there is not a whole lot of question of whether they knew that this was something he was doing. i think the question for them is going to become whether they realized it was being done, and -- whether they directly, personally participated in that. >> david, i want to have you come back and talk about your new book, the title is servants of the dam. giant law firms, donald trump, and the corruption of justice. we'll take a look at -- that is one huge law firm. there's a lot to discuss there. please come back we, pushy at that. >> absolutely. >> that's going to do it for me on this edition of the alex report. we'll see you again next saturday at noon eastern. my friend -- continues this coverage after the break. te the break.

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