good to be with you. i'm in for katy tur. the january 6th committee is back this week and barrelling toward the next chapter in the public phase of its investigation, into the former president's role in the january 6th insurrection. in just two days, members will gather for what could be one of

their final hearings before releasing a report of their findings. but exactly, what exactly the committee will be presenting is largely under wraps shall the panel member adam schiff says this hearing is expected to be more sweeping than some of the others and when asked where they go from here he echoed his colleague liz cheney's belief that the panel will move forward unanimously and there are criminal referrals very much on the table and received 8,000 pages of communications from the secret service in response to their subpoena. yesterday, members say they were still sifting through that information. while the new material is not a substitute for the january 6th-related messages that were deleted, it is expected to offer some additional color to the internal back and forth between staff members, before, during, and after the insurrection. and as the committee continues to beat the drum for the evidence it is set to unveil on wednesday, it is also downplaying new comments from

daniel rigleman, a former technical adviser to the committee, a "60 minutes" interview that aired he claimed a call from the white house switch board and text messages to and from white house chief of staff mark meadows revealed a road map to an attempted coup on the day of the riot. >> you get a real ah-ha moment when you see that the white house switch board had connected to a rioter's phone while it is happening. that's a pretty big ah-ha moment. >> wait a minute. someone in the white house was calling one of the rioters while the riot was going on. >> on january 6th, absolutely. >> and you know who both ends of that call -- i only know one end of the call, i don't know the white house end, which i believe is more important. >> we still don't know much about the call he is describing including who placed the call and how important that person may have been within the trump administration. committee members seem to be waving it off saying it is not new to them and looked into.

spokesman for the panel says he has limited knowledge of the investigation, going on to say he left his position with the january 6th committee in april, prior to our hearings, and much of our most important investigative work. joining me now from capitol hill, is nbc news correspondent ali vitali and georgetown school of law professor and msnbc legal analyst paul butler and eugene daniels. let's talk about the comments. why is the panel choosing to distance itself from what he is saying? >> that's exactly what they're doing, joe. you're right. they're throwing cold water on, this trying to say it is just one of thousands of revelations that they have had during the course of their investigative work according to congressman jamie raskin on "meet the press" yesterday and trying to do, to say that this is something they knew about despite the fact that he is calling it a ah-ha moment rolling out the new book, and

they are looking at the short duration of time that they worked on it, that this is not something for them, who understand the full context and the scope of the revelations that they found, this is not that kinds of a moment for this committee, which i think if you look at the totality of the hearings over the past summer and the past few weeks, we have seen that this is a committee that doesn't often bury the lead, and so clearly, what they're trying to do here with the new revelation is try to tamp down on it and basically steer the ship back to the things that they would prefer to be talking about, which is the revelation and the conclusions that they're drawing in realtime over the course of each of these hearings, including the one that they are going to do wednesday which according to my sources, the understanding is this will be the last investigative hearing that we see before election day, and then of course, we have to look ahead to the potential for an interim report, but certainly to a final report which will come sometime before the end of the year. joe? >> i do want to ask you about the interview. he seems to be trying to close the loop between the white house and members of the mob, and

suggesting the coordination, of course there is a lot we don't know about the call and if the call is not as significant as he is making it out to be, how much more work does the committee have to do to try to look at this lane themselves going forward. >> the house panel already has access to all of the information rigleman is coming forward with. and the switch board call is intriguing, but i suspect if the house investigators have been able to track down anything incriminating about the call, the public would already have heard about it. and in any event, federal prosecutors at the department of justice can continue to crack down this lead, in some ways they have more investigative power than the house, so at this point, he i think is mainly a side show, and a dude trying to hawk his book. >> and he will be a guest with katy tomorrow, so a look ahead to. that the last hearing was a while ago. so the committee has had time to prepare and since the hearing,

we've heard sentences handed out to those in the mob so what exactly can we expect to hear and see on wednesday. >> they're very quiet about those kinds of things before we get there, so with it being kind of one of possibly the wrap-up of the investigative hearing, it is the final act, what are the final things they have to say. since the last hearing, that we've also known that ginni thomas, the wife of clarence thomas, the supreme court justice, will sit down at some point with the committee. behind closed doors probably, and not in front of folks but those kind of things that they have been continuing to investigate, and what they've seen and said over and over is every time they have a hearing, they get a lot more incoming, they goat a lot more information, and so sifting through that, as they roll down to that final report that they have to, they need to wrap up, before the house flip, if it is a flip to republicans, in january, so they want to wrap this up pretty quickly, and so

you know, other than hearing that it is going to be sweeping, which is not very clear, that means we're probably not going to zero in on a certain day or a certain time period and not going to just talk about the folks who were there, or the people that were in the white house, and more of an overarching conversation about what they know, and more importantly, what they think the american people should know as they head toward making that final report. >> sweeping is the opposite of a detailed description. so we know these hearings have been historic and insightful and long and exhausting sometimes and people are looking at the overall outcome and what it is going to be, i want to play some of adam schiff's comments this weekend on that. >> we operate, we've had consensus and unanimity, and it will be certainly i think, my recommendation, my feeling that we should make referrals. i do agree, as the judge, judge carter in california, wrote in multiple opinions, there have been several laws broken, and is is, i think, apparent that there

is evidence that donald trump was involved in breaking several of those laws, and upon which finding evidence that people have broken the law, it is not always the case that it makes a referral but in circumstances like these, i think that is the better part of the argument. >> what do you make of that evaluation? what kind of criminal referrals are you expecting based on what we know now? >> you know, joe, the community seems to be split on whether to make a criminal referral at all, including what about donald trump. this isn't a big deal, though, because the justice department doesn't need a formal referral to investigate. plus, we know it has already impaneled two grand juries that appear to be looking at trump and these matters. one looking at the violence of the insurrection, and another looking at fake electors scheme, so for people who are keeping track at home, that's two

federal grand juries looking at january 6th. and a third looking at the classified documents trump was hoarding at mar-a-lago. >> the political ramifications of all of this, eugene, i want to get your thoughts, a new poll shows the majority of americans think that trump threatened democracy while leaving office. 54%. do we know if that public consensus will have much influence on the committee when they're deciding whether to hold trump accountable? >> i don't think so. i think the think they've said over and over and over again they will follow the facts where they made lead and the reason people feel that way is because of these hearings, so it's not really the public that's going to be informing the decision so much as it has been the committee hearings that have been informing the public. and if you look at the numbers where they were, you know, last year, even around january 6th, these had ticked up, meaning that what the committee wanted to do, which was give the american people a fuller picture and truer picture of what

happened on january 6th has worked in that people now believe that something happened there, which is what the committee wanted them to believe. and i will say that the thing that i think these numbers are going to be more important, when thinking about it is, 2024, when i talked to republicans behind closed doors, they talk about these hearings, if not being a legal issue, for donald trump, being a political issue for him, because what it does is, it em beaudins the rest of the -- emboldens the rest of the republicans who might have been on the fence running in a 2024 primary and possibly throwing their hat in the ring because they know, and they feel the same way, that the drama and the chaos surrounding donald trump might not work for them in another presidential election. >> let's talk about 2024. i mean ali, let's also talk about what vice chair liz cheney said this weekend about that. >> we have an obligation to make sure, and i certainly will,

whatever it takes, to make sure donald trump isn't anywhere close to the oval office. i'm going to make sure donald trump, make sure he's not the nominee, and if he is the nominee, i won't be a republican. >> so she has alluded to this before, and that begs the question, how significant are these comments from cheney? >> they're significant. especially if you're looking in the broader field of how the republican party has changed. this is a party that is now squarely in the donald trump era, to be a republican means to be an ally of the former president. cheney clearly not that. but the word cheney, the name cheney, used to be smon mouse with conservativism, it is the striking shift that we saw in wyoming politics, as a micro example of this macro change that is happening across the country politically. but also, what cheney is doing here, in this period after losing her congressional seat is charting the blueprint in realtime of what it means to be a republican in the trump era, who is not aligned with the

former president. what she is saying here is that that might mean not being ready to abandon her party yet, because that is a point that she made when i was sitting listening to her in that auditorium in austin this weekend and also saying that she is willing to campaign with democrats, in the instances that they are campaigning against election deniers. for example, in the arizona governor's race, where as katie hobbs the democrat, against kari lake who had gone all in with trump on the idea of the big lichl and cheney piecing this puzzle together in realtime and the last salvo of the committee's work. >> we'll see what happens. thanks so much. appreciate all of you. just hours after donald trump posted a string of q-anon memes and references on his social media account, he doubled down on the group's conspiracy theory movement in front of thousands at his rally in north carolina on friday. vaughn hillyard has been looking into the impact and the former president embracing that

movement. and i know you were at the rally and you spoke to a woman who is quite the story. who really says her life has been shattered by the continued promotion of these theories. >> yes, i want everybody to meet her. she is 21 years old a michigan woman. and she though in so many ways represents what a lot of families have gone through, at least from the point of family members going through the rabbit hole of q aknown and isolation and pair nayo, and it is a violence conspiracy theory entangled all together in what is a movement and notably on the fringe for the last couple of years but now they have the former president of the united states overtly embracing them and if you take a look at this here, you can hear from the 21-year-old rebecca and really see where this movement is today. >> it seems like this when donald trump's embrace of q-anon became clear. >> we will fight for america like no one has ever fought before. >> the former president at rallies over the last week

closing with this song. ♪ >> and in no condition to lead our country. >> the music, i think is really -- >> that's the title of the q-anon conspiracy movement theme song. and trump has posted a flurry of q-anon memes on the social media account and q-anon conspiracy theorists are vast and violent. >> i believe they have the military behind them and i think biden will be gone. >> what does that mean, go? >> he will go to jail for treesen. >> will the military help donald trump with that? >> that's what i believe. >> the movement believes there is a cabal of satan worshipping pedophiles and hopes that donald trump will wage a secret battle with the military to reclaim power and executing government officials, democrat, and hollywood officials and other elites. >> do you believe democratic leaders should be executed. >> anybody that is treason. >> the weeks of the q anone movement is enormous. if you think of the ideas of q-anon worm their way into places they never would have

before. >> the q-anon movement has become more than memes and slogans and internet rabbit holes. >> my dad thought he would carry out martial law. >> donald trump would? >> 21-year-old rebecca and other close family members say her father grew isolated working from home during the pandemic and became so obsessed with q-anon that he grew paranoid. >> he got a gun and said we kill everyone in the family and would try to kill me, too. >> on september 11th, he killed rebecca's mother, the family dog and shot her sister. killed in a standoff with police. who say they are investigating a specific motive which is yet to be determined. >> how was your dad before this? >> he was a totally different person. and i can say i think i started reading him before this happened. like i started realizing that he's not the same person i grew up. >> the one fringe movement

festered after the 2020 election as followers baked new conspiracies. >> people don't have to be on 4chan or 8chan to follow q-anon. it has seeped into other parts of the far right ecosystem. >> we the people make up q. >> we're all waiting and ready. >> i think there that a lot of families who are thinking, nobody takes it seriously. >> what is your message to donald trump. >> i think he should have sanity and try to denounce these people. >> donald trump has not denounced the q-anon movement. and the republican party has largely been silent over the course of last month since donald trump the former president took this overt embrace of the movement. >> thank you so much. appreciate it. still ahead, bracing for impact. the latest on a major storm set to rapidly intensify tonight before making landfall in cuba, then florida. russia is floundering in its war against ukraine. and facing rising unrest back home. as protests and violence erupt

over putin's military draft. live on the ground near ukraine's border with russia. >> with just over six weeks left until the midterms, the california governor gavin newsom calls for an overhaul of democrats' political strategy. >> where are we organizing bottom up, and a compelling alternative narrative? where are we going on the offense every single day? e? where are we going on the offense every single day the first time you made a sale online was also the first time you heard of a town named... dinosaur? we just got an order from a dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first.

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hurricane ian is quickly intensifying as it travels up the caribbean, cuba is preparing for what the u.s. national hurricane center is calling a potentially life-threatening storm surge, forecasters also expect the storm to produce significant winds and more than 13 inches of rain when it makes land fall in cuba sometime tonight or early tomorrow morning. from there, ian is expected to strengthen as it barrels toward florida, which is now operating under a state of emergency. ian could make landfall in tampa as early as wednesday, potentially as a category four storm, tampa has not taken a

direct hit from the hurricane, in a century. we're covering all aspects of the storm and guan venegas in cuba and ellison barber is in tampa. guad, let's start with you. residents there are the first to feel ian's impact. the clock is ticking. how are preps going there? >> right, they issued an alert for seven different provinces in cuba, five million people could be affected by the storm, and the worst in the west of cuba, which has about 200,000 people that could be affected. this is what will have the worst rain of course. the hurricane winds. and now when it comes to havana, it's just east of that, where we're expecting tropical storm conditions, this is what the meteorologists with the institute of meteorologist told me earlier today, which is still dangerous. the u.s. embassies theer shut down today and expect to remain close for tomorrow and people

here are doing what they can to prepare and an island with limited resources, and a lot of the government sources, rationed the food that they can buy, and what they did, going into the hurricane, they rallied people on the west part of the island to buy extra food so they can prepare for a lot of the stores to be shut down once the tomorrow hits and improvised marks with vegetables and bread and those with extra money are buying what they can with lines everywhere. this is very different from what we see in the u.s. we don't have major stores where you can buy everything you can, so people are trying to pack up on whatever they can they can get their hands on and of course they can afford. meanwhile the military, the civil defense in cuba, is in charge of the evacuations, and they informed that 50,000 people will be evacuated in the western part of cuba where the sea is expected to rise and they informed us that the power is expected to be shut down in cuba

as the storm is expected to create some damages on the power grid. and they're moving resource, the limited resources that exist to that part of the island, so that trucks and materials can all be used to make their repairs, in anticipation of what the hurricane could do to power lines, to poles, and to awful this infrastructure, so that's what -- all of this infrastructure, so that's what people are preparing at the island, hours before, we expect the rainfall to begin here in cuba. >> let's move north to florida, this is potentially a once in a century storm for residents in tampa. i remember, i was there in tampa, five years ago, when hurricane irma was threatening, fearing a worst case scenario and too early to tell if that is the situation there, and how are people there responding? >> people are taking it seriously. and you can look at floridians and you know how to prepare for, this but people that we've spoken to say they would rather be overprepared than underprepared and this section of batteries and flashlights, almost all of that is left in terms of hurricane supplies at this home depot. and we were here this morning,

there was an entire area over here that was just full of cases of water, and generators, and also diesel cans, we left up a go pro and as the hours ticked by, they literally flew off of the floor and one person we spoke to, he said he was coming to get the generator after watching and listening to the forecast in the morning, he felt increasingly like he needed to get more supplies and came here to get what he need, and what he doesn't need, he will leave it in a box and bring it back and based on the warnings, particularly after the evacuation order, most people here are not wanting to take any chances. listen to more of what we heard. >> we're sort of starting to realize we probably should have prepped a little bit. so i'm here this morning getting water and batteries and lots of flashlights. and you know, we might fill up our bathtub and that sort of thing and i probably need to get more dog food too. >> actually i feel confident, i do, we go through this every year, every year, and however this time i'm on the generator

end of the stick. >> so in this county right now, there is an evacuation order for what's considered zone a, that's kind of the coastal area, a couple hundred thousand people live in that area, so local officials have said they wanted to issue the evacuation order early so they can give people the time and help people make their way a little more inland. a big concern of why they issued that evacuation order is so that the potential of storm surge, we're starting to see other counties along the western side of florida issue evacuation orders as well. and there's also a mandatory evacuation order in manatee county, as well as the one here in hillsborough county. joe? >> ellison, you and i chatted at 7:00 this morning on nbc news now and the water and generators were plentiful. no surprise they went so are so quickly. stay safe. catastrophic consequences, how the u.s. is pushing back on putin's renewed threat to use nuclear weapons as russia forces flound ner ukraine.

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governor gavin newsom is calling on his party to take a page oust republican play book, or risk quote getting crushed by the gop. the advice was offered during a conversation with msnbc's own alex wagner at the texas tribune festival this weekend in austin, just a little over six weeks out from the midterm elections. >> these guys are ruthless on the other side. ruthless on the other side. they dominate the most important thing in american politics today and that's the narrative. facts become secondary to narrative. they dominate with illusion. and we are getting crushed. we are on the defense over and over and over again. where are we? where are we organizing bottom-up, a compelling alternative narrative? where are we going on the potential every single day on the offense every single day. they're winning. >> joining us susan, where are

the democrats in offering an alternative and is it a blind spot for democrats or struggling to accomplish or is it maybe not a priority for many? >> i think there's a division among democrats over whether that is exactly the right thing to do if you want to win elections and if you want to win the senate or do better in the house, and there are some like governor newsom who thinks that the party needs to be more aggressive in staking out very clear principles, putting republicans on the defensive, forcing votes on tough issues, but there are also democrats from places like ohio, and pennsylvania, and arizona, who think that is not the recipe to win elections in those states where you need to persuade some voters in the middle, to support you. so he's articulating a position in the party but it is not the only position that democrats have. >> i want to ask you about newsom's take on good governance.

he was asked by an audience member about that. let's take a listen. >> in the face of so-called culture war issues, is good governance really enough to win elections these days? >> no, it's not. it's not. otherwise, biden would be at 75% approval. >> so annie, is he right, is good governance no longer good enough to win elections or do you have to consider inflation to be an impact on the party in power. >> i think it has never been enough to win elections, you have to be able to go out and sell what it is that you're doing, and the biden administration has been remarkably poor at doing this and i say remarkably because biden himself has identified sort of a lack of ability to sell some of the obama era policies as problematic and they're strug bing with that but

i think it shows how hard it is to break through the media environment and trying again and again and look at the sunday papers, the saturday papers, you have two or three stories on the front page that are about donald trump, and very, you know, where biden is often on a-6, or a-17 and that is sometimes where the governance goes, good governance goes, inside the paper so it is a bit of a conundrum but i think policy alone has never been enough. and so that's not news, and it's not news to joe biden, he knows that has happened very well. >> newsom made reference to the famous line from former first lady michelle obama, when they go low, we go high, and something that got a lot of applause at the time and now that is an outdated approach and the republican party is too ruthless for democrats to rally around that mantra. do you agree that strategy is not bearing out for democrats? and if so, if we look at the abortion rights, civil rights, what are democrats for? >> democrats are definitely for

abortion rights, that has been an issue that has made a big difference as we look at prospects for the midterm election now just 40 days or so away. the overturning of roe v. wade has energized not just democratic voters but a lot of women voters who are independent and moderates and some republicans and change what we expect to happen in the midterm elections. but you know, many americans want to have it both ways. because i think the idea of taking the high road is something that is appealing to a lot of voter. on the other hand, we know negative ads can have a big effect on elections, they're used a lot because they work. >> and we've run out of time and you learn that in political science classes, too. and here is an example out of washington. majority leader chuck shooumer and forcing republicans to vote on same-sex marriage protections would have quote been the easy thing and he chose to delay the vote. is there criticism for something

like that, democrats aren't seizing the moment in those places where republicans are really championing unpopular policies? >> i think that's right. i mean i think there are, i think to susan's point, it sort of depends what kind of democrat you are and it depends what sort of race you're running in, and for example, gavin newsom, it is not lost on anybody that california is a very blue state but there are other places where democrats are going to do much better on a different kind of message, but it also adds here, the criticism of democrats not being ruthless, you know, i think i would quibble a little bit with governor newsom about that, and one thing that i've done a lot of reporting on this primary season has been the amount of money, $50 million, the democrats have put behind ultra maga candidates, using their words, in primaries, and they have done this, used this tactic, giving democratic money, behind some of the views that democrats abhor the most, in order to pick candidates that they think will be easier to win

in the general election. and if you see democrats holding on to the house, and the senate, it may be very well because of a tactic like this, that made many in the party -- >> and some may call that a more ruthless strategy. good point there. susan page, thanks for joining us. goods conversation, we appreciate it. italy elects its first prime minister since muse leana on the right, and what is behind the political shift. and first major unrest in russia where putin plan to mobilize forcing is met with growing resistance. mobilize forcing is met with growing resistance repairs by building . for softness, and resilience. if you know... you know it's pantene. think he's posting about all that ancient roman coinage? no, he's seizing the moment with merrill. moving his money into his investment account in real time and that's... how you collect coins. your money never stops working for you with merrill, a bank of america company.

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nuclear weapons rather than accept defeat. there are intensifying protests in russia with the call for hundreds of thousands of military reservists to the front line and several hundred have been arrested across the country amid the unrest and a massive exodus and that outrage took a violent turn when a man shot a military official in eastern russia and has been taken into custody. joining me from the kharkiv region from ukraine is nbc's jay gray. unrest in russia is boiling over, russians are scrambling for the borders. i know you have been following humanitarian efforts on the front lines. what are you seeing? >> reporter: you're absolutely right. they seem to be coming unhinged in russia, as this call-up for 300,000 troops continues. it's good news for those here in ukraine who say that it is evidence that russia doesn't support this war. we have been with some of these relief team, the equivalent of the u.s. national guard, if you

will, riding into areas and trying to provide what they can for those who remain. we actually went into an area, about two and a half, three miles from the russian border, with one of these relief teams and you can see, they bring in the necessities there, grains, water, things that they have to have to keep going in these villages that quite frankly are ravaged. many of them, they were some of the first hit and they were occupied for months, this particular village that you're seeing video from now was just re-taken by ukraine forces, two and a half, three weeks ago. and so the people there are desperate for any help they can get. and they're getting that. i should tell you though, that these teams come in, amidst what is constant shelling. shelling 20 minutes before that truckload of aid arrived in the area. and so it is something that they continue to do when they can, knowing full well that that is going to be necessary for quite

some time. it doesn't look like the fighting is slowing down at all in that region. in fact, it has been picking up the last couple of days. >> jay gray in ukraine, thank you so much. appreciate it. georgia maloney is a nationalist who has been accused of spreading white supremacist ideas and set to become italy's first prime minister and the first far right leader elected in italy since world war two. the party can trace the roots to mussolini who was considered fringe a few years ago and now predicted to have a majority in both the upper and lower houses of italy's parliament. we have more from rome. this would be a huge shakeup to the world stage. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: it is definitely a big shakeup for italian and european politics. as you mentioned the first government led by a far right

leader since mussolini, world war ii era, and what does this mean for italy? certainly, they have introduced the typical far right policies on issues like abortion, immigration, and lbgtq rights, and so forth. what does it mean for foreign policy? well, georgia maloney, the leader of the brothers of the italy, she has been very critical of the euro, the european union in the past, but she has promised during her campaign that she will continue the support for ukraine, as many other allies, that italy is giving money, and weapons. she said that she will continue to do that. but she has a problem, that her allies, this is the belief, berlusconi, if you remember him, back in government, and these are the allies that she needs to keep the government alive. one of the allies has been calling for a drop of sanctions in russia for a while now. while berlusconi during an

interview, on italian television a couple of days before the elections, he justified the war saying that putin was in some way tricked by the leaders of the self proclaimed independent regions of ukraine, because they, he said, they didn't want this at all and tens of thousands of people need to come to rescue us and berlusconi says that putin just wants to go in and save the russians that were living there, and replace, his words, zelenskyy with good people. so she has a problem here, of course, with her allies, but she needs them to keep this government alive. >> claudio, looking at the roots of the party here, how has maloney tried to separate herself from mussolini? >> well, maloney has a history as a very young activist and militant that has emerged by fascism and she certainly didn't hide, it and then of course,

recently, she tried to tone that down, to appeal to a wider audience, a wider electorate and says herself and her party consigned thech had, members of her party have been quoted on several occasions for instance the roman salute which is a typical fascist gesture. that is another problem she has on her hands. >> claudio, thank you very much. appreciate it. up next, collision course, we are just hours away from something we've only seen in the movies. what nasa is doing that could one day protect planet earth. dah

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