say way to go let's oh, it's about darn time somebody play that thing. and on that absolutely beautiful note, i wish all of you a very beautiful night. from our oliver colleagues across nbc nbc news, thanks for staying up with. associate the end of tomorrow. omorw.ro we have a lot to get to tonight including a major three category hurricane getting through tonight. the january six committee has postponed its to committee and light of hurricane ian bearing down on parts of florida, we've decided to postpone tomorrow's posing ripper praying for the safety of all those storms back. love more on hurricane eat and a lease on january six investigation later this hour.

but we start tonight with a major political battle taking place across the country. as of today, we are just six weeks out from this year's midterms. despite economic and historical trends that could she -- should favor public, and this election is shaping up to be closer than anyone expected. thanks in large part to republican extremism and states across the country. from the supreme court's decision to overturn roe v. wade and subsequent state abortion bans, to election denialism, to a cruel political stunt using's a asylulm seekers, to book bans and censorship in the classrooms, republicans are executing on a radical agenda. those efforts are being led by red state governors. governors like texas greg abbott and florida's ron desantis. men who are pushing this extremism while they raise their own political profiles and jockey to inherit trump's mantles as leaders in the next generation of republican presidential hopefuls. on the other side of that fight our handful of democratic governors. the people who are, in many

ways, leading the charge against radical republican policies. chief among them is california governor gavin newsom. after surviving a recall election last year, governor newsom has come out swinging hard against republican governors and stoking a few presidential campaign rumors of his own. the california governor has put up billboards in republican -controlled states attacking their leaders extreme abortion policies, he's running ads in ron desantis's florida saying freedom is under attack in the sunshine state. he's urging residents to move to california. this weekend, governor newsom took a trip down to greg abbott 's texas to continue the campaign of calling out republican governors. and otherwise making himself a thorn in the side of the right-wing. while he was there, i sat down with him for an interview to talk with him in austin, where i asked him about his aggressive new strategy. >> you talk a lot about going on offense. and you have evolved yourself in the business of ron desantis and governor abbott here in texas. what is the point of that?

of the billboards? what is the point of -- i'm not gonna call it trolling, but it sort of feels like you're trolling republican -- >> they need to be called out. they need -- the can't just get away. was it they can't claim to be pro-life -- they can't claim to embrace freedom, where they're denying freedom. -- they have to be called out. how are they possibly going to be celebrated and successful in terms of political ambitions because they both ascended even further and closer to the real elections as a consequence of their demonization. how are they getting away with that? and so my frustration is, you know, we need to call them out. now are you paying attention to what these guys are doing? how many books have been banned

here in texas? 801 books have been banned. ron desantis is a -- elected official. he is sending swat team for people it's ethics in the morning because they register to vote and voted. that is insane. just think about it. that's insane. he went to another state to find migrants and use state money that was intended for unauthorized immigrants, not those seeking legal asylum and send them to an island. and he's being celebrated for that. -- you see and today trying to describe his own head -- of history trying to describe slavery. >> it was american revolution the cause people to question slavery. no one had questioned it before we decided as americans that we are endowed by our creator with unalienable rights. and that we're all created equal. >> he doesn't know he's talking about. except he is successful. and we are going to be more assertive and waking folks up. it's not just mar-a-lago. it's not just trump and january 6th. because, i mean we all hope the

trump is an asterisk in history and we can turn the page on trump. but then? what trump is just a whole other level. these guys are at another level of demonization. i mean, there on another level. -- and applying that demonization through legislation. trump has to be blushing with some of the stuff that some of these republican governors have gotten away with. >> you filed an appeal, basically, i notice with the doj saying you think it should be criminal investigations related to the migrants stunt. do you believe desantis and abbott could be criminally charged for this? >> i don't know they could be criminally charged. i grew up in a different world, a bit old-fashioned about accountability. but, i mean, by every definition he broke state laws as it relates to the utilization of those state dollars. the question is did he break federal law? it's sick. i am a parent. man. how do i explain that --

forget being democrat or republican it's us vs them. it's like, what? someone did. that they would do that to kids? to other people's kids? to human beings? what kind of person does that? >> the n r s c is sending out emails saying, which date would you like migrants sent to -- >> air desantis. this bravado. and then this toughness. it's all bs. they are bullies. nothing more than police. ranked police. >> why the desire to have the strong -- >> because it works. >> is it desire for a top? casey >> -- decades ago, when we got slapped -- given the choice american people always support strong and wrong versus weaken right. this truth that about, that truth today about. that this demonization has political benefit. it works. it works situationally. and that is what is so sad. but now it's weaponized on a whole number level with this feedback loop of social media. and then, of course, the propaganda works. and the anger machine. which of course the right dominates. and we have nothing, respectfully, nothing comparable.

my awakening in all this is it's not just about midterms in congress or 2024, biden will biden, will it is deeper than that. the rights revolution that we've taken for granted is being wiped out in realtime state after state. and they have attention. they are focused. and they will stop at nothing to achieve their goals of rolling back all of these rights. and they're doing it successfully. >> during our interview i also asked governor newsom about what he thinks democrats should be doing in this moment to combat republican policies and push back against a torrent of misinformation that's being pushed out by the right way. we also discuss some of the pointed criticisms he's directed at his own party. >> the right-wing has been formulating this stuff for decades. they have a structure of leadership that has been incredibly effective. and there isn't an analog on the left? i look at what you did and what you are saying in the wake of the dobbs decision. you are out there saying, -- >> where is the democratic party? where is the party? why aren't we standing up more

firmly, more resolutely? why are we calling this out? >> how lacking are we at the national level in the democratic party? >> i mean, there's no doubt that states are on the front line of the rights -- battles, period, full stop. in this supreme court has now made it crystal clear. -- we focused ourselves more distinctly and that -- we can argue, what are we doing on immigration reform, what are we doing on other, issues i'm not going to deny this stuff tentative challenges our party has as well. addressing those tough and pressing issues. it's not just the messaging -- but one that has presented our party for years and years. costly on the defense. we allow these culture wars to take shape and we are consisting on the back end of eight of the top ten states of the highest murder rates, all our republican states. how do democrats not know that? in fact, it's really nine out of ten. georgia went for biden because -- it's a clearly a republican state, arrest, day eight out of ten. and you're losing that message? crime is higher, as well as

taxes here for the average citizen in texas. it's higher, crier -- crime higher than the state of california. 67% higher gun death rate in texas. why don't we push back? >> why don't we? >> i don't know. in terms of my current point of view, i'm optimistic about our ability turns around. if we go on offense. that's why i'm doing the billboard. that's on doing that. that's why i'm doing the tv commercials in other states. take it to them and take it to that damn social media. and whatever that things, true social. which by the, way i can imagine will be around in two years. >> have you seen a difference if you started doing this? how of -- how is it impacting, if? anything >> i think we should to debate a little. get the, like look at over there. i am not that. but -- i am talking to other governors. and some of them are my friends, some of them are becoming closer friends saying, i wish i could do that. i really do like that you did that. >> what are they worried about?

>> i'm in the middle of an election, i have my own issues. that issues not -- i get it, there's different politics for me. but increasingly -- or, let me just get through november. i really want to talk to you in the transition. let's go. i cannot, by the way, i'm my mother dad's grave, i cannot tell you the number of elected officials in power -- for positions that are soon to be -- that are ready to go. i think we are answering -- and i'm not saying -- you're seeing it with biden, he's moving. he's down on the policy. but now he recognizes, they always recognize. but now they're leaning in on -- >> let's talk about that for a second. biden came out. a joe biden that i think joe biden did not think he would ever see. which is joe biden standing there talk about how maga republicans, which by the way is a lot of republicans, had become semi fascist.

that they're in the thrall of autocracy. and the after effects of that speech were complicated for joe biden, right? there are republicans who watch and said, you have forsaken the -- you're not the leader of the entire country. this is outrageous, they fund-raise off of it. the more you use pointed language against republicans, the more you troll them, and the more you take it to the doorsteps, i think that's probably good for democratic policies and priorities and politics. but what does it do to the ability of anyone to bridge the gap between left and right? does that even matter anymore? is that a fools errand? >> at the moment, in my humble opinion. and i think the president has learned the hard way. i mean, he is hardwired for another world but that world is gone. and he has acknowledged that very publicly on multiple full occasions. you're right, i think is very hard for him. because it's decency, his honor, his character, his moral persuasion. you have all those things, are

the tools in his tool kit. it's who he is at its core. he wants to compromise. he wants to find our better angels. and he wants to find that sweet spot in terms of enhancing our -- and values. but that's not how the system is designed. that's not what the supreme court represents right. now that's not with these redistricting efforts represent right now. that's not what all the -- the rights are being rolled back a realtime -- my mom was really upset with me. -- she was, like you have the model better behavior. we've been doing that, and people are losing their rights. people are losing their rights. i can't sit back -- we have to push back. we have to hold him accountable. and, yes we prepare ourselves for the great reconciliation. and that's to come. >> you think? really? >> for no other reason -- we can't live like this. we run into a truck at the grocery store. and we'll see each other the soccer games. >> i just wonder if we're gonna be sharing the soccer field and the grocery store aisles. i mean, the tit-for-tat between you and governor abbott and desantis is, you guys come live over here. you guys live over there. and i wonder if that does -- the sorting of people into red

states and blue states. which will even further deepen partisan divides. is that that a good outcome for the country? >> it's not a good outcome. but at the end of the day, you can't wall each other off. you just can't. you could do offense yourself on social media -- but at the end of the day, we all share the same love. certain things in common. one short life with pretty limited wisdom. small world. and we're gonna breathe the same air. and at the end of the day, we're gonna rise and fall together. >> how do you capture that shared humanity? how do you bring people back to the things the tie us together rather than the things that separate us? if you also want democrats to go on the offensive and be angry and be motivated by the fear that the walls are closing in and that freedoms are being basically taken for granted for the last 50 years or be evaporating over our live -- eyes? >> we have to be -- aggressive we have to have a sustainable mindset and winning these large debates.

you can't win fleeting victories at other people expenses. >> have you talk to desantis or abbott? >> abbott? i think in a few years ago on multiple occasions for helping us with the wildfires, didn't play politics -- and whenever play paul is if he needed anything on those lines. desantis, no. most of the republican governors, i have great relationships with. i spent time with them. in fact, some of my more close republican colleagues are republican. >> some of your best friends or republican? >> yeah. -- i find it interesting life. in that respect. and it's awkward conversation around an ex wife -- >> an ex wife, kimberly guilfoyle whose definitely not a democrat anymore. >> nope, not lately. >> it must be weird for you. >> of course. but you have to understand --

we had a different relationship with trump when i was governor as well. >> yeah. >> we had an interesting that non combattive relationship. even though we went at it on a lot of issues. we also found ways to get along. so i say all of that for no other reason -- it's essential that we find those spaces. >> but i got to ask you. you're out there, you're aggressive, you are practicing a new brand of democratic politics. and the people who are the heads of the democrats at the highest -- white people in the 70s, do you think part of the reason the democratic party hasn't been as responsive and aggressive other should be is because, in part, the generational difference between who is leading at the federal level and who needs to be active at the state level? >> no. my hero bobby kennedy says what the people needs our quality of youth, not a time of life, a state of life, quality of imagination. joe biden has a quality imagination. nancy pelosi does. look what they were able to

accomplish in the last two years. there is demonstrably evidence in that on what they have accomplished in achieved. plus, a few more political masters than nancy pelosi. in terms of being able to organize a caucus to get votes. may never see anything like this again. we have to broaden that focus and focus on building this party institutionally across the spectrum and develop comprehensive narrative where we can take these great policies -- and take our vulnerabilities. and package them in a way that we can go on offense in a much more collaborative and aggressive way -- using the tools at our disposal as we build a surround sound and build the apparatus that the other side has done -- success leaves clues, after all. and reconcile the fact that we're losing the messaging debate broadly state by state in this country. >> and one final thing, at the end of our interview i asked governor newsom about his own political ambitions and whether or not his recent offensive against republicans is a prelude to maybe a future presidential run? >> are you running? would you ever?

>> would you ever? is this the would you ever? would you ever? >> will? you do? you is this all part of a plan? >> it's all part of a strategy. >> why not? you're taking billboards out you're definitely using your national profile. >> it's not the intention. my intention is to raise attention to these critical issues. on what is happening -- >> it's not my intention is not a no. we will -- >> stop. let me ask your question. no, and then, oh no, and then no. and no. how many cameras you have? no. no. >> no for new hampshire? no for south carolina? no for nevada? okay. i will play each time you're in one of those states. that's five. i take what you are saying. i will take it at face value for now. >> that is what he is saying now. keep your eyes on governor gavin newsom of california, everyone. we have much more ahead this hour. we keep an eye on hurricane ian as the storm barrels towards florida, prompting millions in

the state to evacuate. nbc's news meteorologist bill karen's will join us for more on that. but, next a surprising lawmaker who's given his support for a piece of legislation that may very well prevent another january 6th style situation from happening again in congress. stay with us. with unitedhealthcare my sister has a whole team to help her get the most out of her medicare plan. ♪wow, uh-huh♪ advantage: me! can't wait 'til i turn 65! take advantage with an aarp medicare advantage plan... only from unitedhealthcare. now, here is something you

don't see every day. if you overconsume political news, as i certainly do, you know that this is an unusual sight. this is senate republican leader mitch mcconnell joining other senators on the dais at a senate committee meeting. senate majority and minority leaders do not sit on committees. that's why you almost always only see them speaking from the floor of the senate. but on rare occasions when a senate leader feels strongly enough about a particular bill, he will show up personally to the committee meeting on the bill to show support. and what made today a double rarity is that the bill that republican leader mitch mcconnell schlepped down to that committee room to support is a bill that was the brain child of democrats. this bill aims to prevent future efforts to subvert presidential election results. basically to make it harder to do the kind of stuff that donald trump tried to pull off on january 6th. when congress gathered to certify joe biden's win on january six, trump's allies in

congress objected to the slates of biden electors that were submitted by certain states. trump pushed a theory that vice president mike pence as the presiding offiver that day could then reject the biden electors and essentially had the election to trump. which pence refused to do, rightfully. this new bill would reform the 135-year-old electoral count act, to make clear the vice president does not have the power to do that. and it would also make it harder for members of congress to raise objections to a state's set of electors. and this bill has been steadily gaining bipartisan support and now mitch mcconnell's full-throated blessing today, his appearance in that committee room. it all but assures that it will pass. i will note that there was one vote against this bill today. and it came from none other than ted cruz, one of the republican senators who objective biden slate of electors on january 6th. but except for senator cruz, the bill got unanimous, bipartisan support from the committee members. and that's something to really focus on. and it's a step towards

preventing a repeat of what almost happened on january 6th. and it comes at the latest trial gets underway for people charged in the attack on the capitol that day. jury selection began today in the trial of the leader of the far-right pseudo-paramilitary group, the oath keepers. stewart rhodes and several of his fellow oath keepers are charged with seditious conspiracy against the united states. multiple oath keepers and tactical gear entered the capitol that day and some fought with police. the indictment charges that they had stashes of guns and ammunition just outside washington dc that day ready to deploy. and that road spent weeks coordinating the plan to course keeping trump in office. obviously, the main question of the trial is whether rhodes and his coconspirator will be charged -- there are also questions about what more we may learn about january 6th and what happened on that day.

three oath keepers have already pleaded guilty to the seditious conspiracy charge and are now cooperating with prosecutors. at just one example of questions that remain, one of the cooperators told prosecutors he overheard stewart rhodes trying to reach trump through an intermediary -- but the person on the other end of the line would not connect rhodes to the president. what was that about? washington post reports that investigators are still asking those oath keepers cooperators about their knowledge of any coordination between their group and the others on january 6th. joining us now is barry berke who served as chief impeachment officer -- at president trump's january 6th impeachment trial. barry, thank you for being. here. >> my pleasure, alex. >> so, are you confident that through this oath keepers trial we are going to get the information about the connection between these rioters, the seditious actors and the trump white house? >> i'm not confident that we're going to get all the answers

because it is an imperfect case where there are just trying to determine whether they can prove seditious conspiracy. but the evidence of the bigger role, when january 6th -- long before january 6th, when donald trump is speaking to groups, like telling the proud boys to stand back and stand by. when people like roger stone, we saw his video, is closely lying to the oath keepers, to the proud boys. and is talking in july about the plan to prevent the peaceful transfer of government. you see the pieces, and part of this defense reaffirms it. that they were there, that stewart rhodes was there because the president told him to come. that he thought they might invoke the insurrection act. that's not a defense to using violence to interfere with government. not a defense at all. but it does lay the groundwork of how donald trump is guilty of a whole litany of crimes based on the facts that we know. >> what about your line of questioning for stewart rhodes. we highlighted this evidence that we have. that stewart rhodes was trying to connect with donald trump

through an intermediary, that intermediary would not connect the two, the president and stewart rhodes. what would your question be for stewart rhodes in a trial like this? >> if i could appear as chief impeachment counsel, my questions would be, who was that intermediary? was it roger stone? what do the president say at the time? president trump, that caused him to think he should come use force, and commit crimes in order to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. who were his earlier contacts? all of these people who surrounded the president and we're trying to prevent this transfer -- the peaceful transfer of power. what role did they play with the oath keepers? how long did these tentacles extend out to other people who were involved? and i think those are the questions i would ask. if i was the prosecutor, i would establish that he came here with intent to commit

violence -- and that should be enough for conviction. >> how does this detail with the doj's investigation into january six? are they watching this and saying, basically creating a checklist? >> i think it is a preview of certain things. there's a whole litany of crime that they have to consider whether or not to bring against the former president and those around him. the most serious is seditious conspiracy. and they've laid out a strategy and a theory that could theoretically apply to a whole host of people. however, there are lesser crimes as, well like interfering with an official proceeding. so i think that department is able to look at this and see it as a preview to go up. typically, the department of justice and stop the low level people that come into the act. but the people who planned, it who organized it, who are most directly responsible. the people who said the election was stolen and we have to prevent it. the ones who went and use the language of violence knowing the crowd was armed -- and they intended to march to the capitol. i think the department has a lot of evidence. i would tell you, alex, i think the strongest argument often, made whether it's the oath keeper or former president is deterrence. and you have people, now not only saying that they support

overthrowing or interfering with an election, but they are running for office, serious office on that campaign. so if you don't prosecute a former president with the evidence -- where the evidence is overwhelming, where he knew he lost the election and he sought to prevent the certification of that loss, then everyone's going to feel that they are at liberty to do the same. >> well -- it's meaningful that we talked about the electoral count act, it's an -- tacit acknowledgment that would happen on january six much and -- must never happen. again one wonders whether a sane group of republicans will send up, if and when the doj pursues a criminal charge against, primary actors, i'm not naming any names, right? i do want to ask you as we try to put together a more full picture of what transpired that -- day the secret service remains, kind, of to some degree of mystery. what was going on? we don't have the text messages

that were exchanged between agents on january 5th and sixth. and now there's a lot of reporting about the degree to which the inspector general of dhs, who was charged with overseeing what happened with the secret service and the missing text messages -- there's a lot of questions about whether he is fully pursuing that investigation in the way he should. let me first ask, you we have a tranche of i believe 1000 pages of evidence that have been turned over to the january six committee and congress. are you optimistic that that trove of information as it pertains to the secret service will be useful? we know the text messages are not among the documents that have been given to the committee. >> i'm hopeful they'll be something that helps us understand what communications were happening that day. the secret service, they were right there with the president. they are supposed to defend him from physical harm. not from indictment. so there may be evidence that were in the text message to reaffirm what we already know, that trump wanted to go to the capitol and he was prevented. that he wanted to march. so the fact that they were destroyed is greatly disturbing. and if i represent people all the time, that if they destroy evidence for something that is

surely going to be investigated, they would be prosecuted for obstruction. so the issue is, was this done intentionally? was it purely by accident? and if there is evidence that it is intentional or the act of it happening was covered up or somehow kept from congress or not shown in a way that it should've, that is serious. and that only doesn't interfere with the investigation but it attacks the integrity of our law enforcement. the hope is that this new material will help fill in the blanks. we already know a lot about what happened that day. but if we can gain more information of why the secret service was so concerned that cooperates evidence we've already seen that is not in any way conflicting -- that shows what secret service ages were saying that day, that could be very powerful in the case against the former president. >> i think one thing for certain is the inspector general's behavior and management of this, joseph cuffari. the examination of his behavior and what he has done or not done, that examination is not

over no matter what is revealed in the hundred thousand documents that the committee is not reviewing. barry berke, who served as chief impeachment counsel of the house of representatives at president trump's january six impeachment trial. we appreciate your expertise, and wisdom, and thoughts, and game plan for all of this berry. still, ahead extremism from groups like the oath keepers is not new. as stewart rhodes and others face trial for their actions on january 6th, we'll take a look at the misogyny and racism fueling their violent behavior. a law professor, anita hill, will join me live on set for that conversation. but next, a live update on hurricane ian as it grows stronger it makes its way towards florida.

kevin: i've fought wildfires for twenty years. here's the reality we face every day. this is a crisis. we need more firefighters, more equipment, better forest management to prevent wildfires and reduce toxic smoke. and we need to reduce the tailpipe emissions that are driving changes to our climate. that's why cal fire firefighters, the american lung association, and the california democratic party support prop 30. prevent fires. cut emissions. and cleaner air. >> as a category three or four. yes on 30.

early this morning the hurricane slammed into cuba with heavy rain and 125 mile an hour winds. new tonight, cuba's electricity providers said the storm has caused the islands power grid to fail, plunging the country into darkness. officials expect it to be restored into tomorrow. meanwhile, florida is under a state of emergency with 2.5 million people under some form of evacuation order. florida's gulf coast, people are stocking up on food and

water and other essential supplies as they prepare to ride out the storm. authorities say that ian could leave parts of the state without power for most of the week. bill, what can we expect from indianapolis 24? hours we >> can expect the damage to begin and get worse. this time tomorrow night is when we will have thousands of people going into the, dark a lot of damage taking this right now, 24 hours. i just got a report from place around hollywood, florida. a private airport had a bunch of planes that were flipped. no one was in. them but tornadoes were a threat during the overnight hours. the winds are starting to howl. this is as close as the storms are gonna get to key west. winds just gusting to 70 miles per hour. that's about as bad as it will get in the keys. and then we're gonna watch the winds increase. when you wake up tomorrow morning, the winds will be howling from fort myers all the way up the coast of sarasota. and that's where we expect the

worst of this to hit. here's the forecast in the hurricane center. the next comes at american -- next will be 5 am. every six. hours they have that landfall right around five or four in the afternoon, coming on shore somewhere just north of -- venice is right, here inglewood with it to the south of here. -- if they shift a little more south -- this keeps creeping towards you. fort myers, cape coral, all the way down there through beautiful areas around santa belle island. and then the storm, as we go throughout on that wednesday. and then into thursday, the storms gonna be through central florida. orlando the disney, complex, those areas will have a lot of power outages. trees down. and even as far as friday we're gonna watch the storm hitting up the coastal areas. and then we're gonna see a storm surge to deal with. as it makes a second landfall near santa. not a hurricane by their, still a tropical storm. but regardless, it's gonna cost. problems it's at least three days in a row we're gonna have to deal with the storm. the worst thing as far as life-threatening is water.

it always is. it's not the wind that killed more. people it's the storm surge and the freshwater flooding. 8 to 12 feet. we do not know exactly where that's gonna occur. it's gonna be south by about 10 to 20 miles. of wherever the i-makes landfall. -- if it goes up like, this areas from sarasota -- you have a blowout wind. that wind will be clearing out to sea on the north side. but if that southern onshore wind. i'm very concerned with the storm surge from naples -- and again, sanibel, captiva, fort myers, even parts of charlotte in charlotte bay. that's an area with high tide tomorrow as we go throughout 6 pm. that's right when the highest water levels could be surging. we're gonna add -- and another -- to high tide. so that's way up there. that's what we don't want to deal with. and i mentioned some storm surge even on the jacksonville coastline. the other problem with water is the high risk of flash flooding in central florida. someone's gonna get two feet of rain in that i-four corridor. this includes you, tampa, all the way through

orlando back up towards daytona beach. alex, you get the idea. if the wind, it's the water, but even major hurricanes -- you're gonna have a billion dollar weather disaster unless it hits an unpopulated area. this is a highly populated area. i would be surprised if it ends up being a ten billion dollar weather disaster bites all -- by the time zones and done. >> terrifying. it hasn't got her. yet bill karins, you're gonna be a very busy man next 24 hours,. stay strong. we eagerly await your updates. thanks for everything. up next here tonight, law professor anita hill will join me live in studio to talk about the thing that might be at the root of both restrictions on reproductive freedoms and threats against our democracy. it is not what you think. that is next. stick around. girls trip. ♪ it's the most wonderful time of the year ♪ get fast relief of your worst allergy symptoms. including nasal congestion. with powerful claritin-d. so you can breathe better. feel the clarity and make today the most wonderful time of the year. claritin - d. from the #1 fiber brand comes metamucil gummies. getting your daily fiber is now even easier.

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even when the power goes out, life rocks on. right now get a free 10-year extended warranty and up to $750 off. when oath keepers leader stewart rhodes was arrested and charged with seditious conspiracy earlier this year, his estranged wife said she was relieved. before the insurrection, she says she had spent years directing his violence and rage at her, and their children. tasha adams spent the last four years trying to sever her ties with rhodes and finalize a divorce. in 2018 she filed for a restraining order saying she was afraid because quote, whenever stewart rhodes is unhappy with my behavior, i want to leave the house, he doesn't like me to leave, he will draw his handgun which he always wears, rack the slide, wave it around, and then pointed at his own head. telling me my behavior has caused this.

i filed for divorce three days ago and i am terrified of his response. adams found that after she says, rhodes choked their 13-year-old daughter. we only stop when their son threw him off, according to the suns account to the reporter. then challenged his son to a fight. when rhodes was finally arrested, not for assaulting abusing his family, but for attacking the capitol on assault and democracy, adams tweeted this, quote, seems like a good time to re-post that in the spring of 2018, my request for a protective order slash restraining order against my estranged husband stewart rhodes, was denied, because the court didn't believe me when i said he was a threat. that is the man standing trial for seditious conspiracy. the man who helmed an anti government paramilitary group that provided security for community businesses during some 2020 black lives matter protest.

the man who offered to send militia members to kentucky, who denied marriage licenses to same sex couples. and who authored oath keepers overdoses again on january six to overturn election results and keep donald trump in power. the cost of denying the accounts and experiences of women like tasha adams and her children can be steep for everyone. but those denials happen every day. within families and workplaces and even in courts. very few people know that better than anita hill, professor of social policy, law, and women's gender and sexuality studies at brandeis university. most of america remembers her for the testimony she gave during the confirmation hearing for justice clarence thomas. she spent the decades since research and teaching, and writing, about the gender case violence entrenched in out democratic systems and in our daily lives. joining us now is professor anita hill, out today with a new paperback version of her book, believing, our 30 year journey to end gender violence. thank you for being here today. >> it's a pleasure to be able to talk with. you congratulations on your new show. >> thank you so, much and iq for being on this new show! i just want to start with the sort of moment we are in an american politics. where you have in particular,

for today, an example of a group of men oath keepers, whose very existence as a group is based on homophobia, racism, misogyny. you have groups like the proud boys. also implicated in january six. who called themselves proudly, pardon the pun, western chauvinists. how and why is this happening? so publicly. articulated with pride. with zeal. is it coming as a backlash to, you know games we've made in second wave feminism? what in society, what is the poison among us that has led to group like this? >> well i think in terms of patriarchy, there has always been an element of misogyny. i belongs it where lives. there's an element of racism. homophobia, we can -- you know all of those things are now coming together. and they are part of this whole long list of white male grievances that we have in this

country that have been directed at politics. i talk about some of the ways that misogyny is used to recruit people in to white supremacist groups. people who may not have white supremacy sentiments. but who have misogynst sentiments and they get brought in. and now they not only have the misogyny but now they have already converted and be part of a group, and really be trained in white supremacy as well. i wrote about it in the book because of the gender implications. it seems to be very clear that this is not going to go away on its own. that's where we are in this moment when we have these groups very proudly, proclaiming this kind of animus

toward people who are making progress in this country. who are taking leadership positions which apparently, in enrages some of them. and it's not going to go away with us ignoring it. and i think that's what we have done so far. we sort of put january six in one category, and we put misogyny the in one category, and racism in another category, and really there is this a little relationship between them. and if we aren't studying, if our agencies aren't studying these groups, these extremist groups, with all of that in mind, they are gonna be missing the point. >> do you see the dobbs decision, i'll set clarence thomas aside, but do you see the republican zeal to control a woman's body as an extension of that chauvinism, obviously pro-lifers will tell you this is about protecting the sanctity of unborn life, but do you see the same sort of

sean-ism and misogyny that give rise to the proud boys and the oath keepers, do you see an extension of that in the dobbs decision related to state abortion bans? >> you know, i see a lot in dobbs. and i'm going to go back to 2013 when ruth bader ginsburg wrote just a phrase and it in one of her dissents that said that her colleagues, on the conservative colleagues on the court, we're on this unrestrained course to corral rights in this country. civil rights in this country. and what she was talking about was employment discrimination, specifically racism in employment, as well as sexual harassment in employment. and what she predicted was basically, if we continue this path, we are going to be setting back precedent that we have --

had thought that was there. protections, that we thought you know, were going to be with us forever. >> yeah. >> and i think what we are seeing with dobbs is that is part of what she was complaining about. this, that this is a tendency of the, the left, excuse, me the right part of the conservative part of the court, to really limit and disrespect the granting of rights. the extension of civil rights. so i don't see dobbs as separate from removal and protections of sexual harassment in the workplace, for example. and that's what ginsburg was complaining about back in 2013. i just see this as following a

pattern that she identified and that will continue. already in the dobbs, decision, and concurring opinions, thomas's concurring opinions, he's giving every or he's giving every indication that he's willing to hear lgbtq rights put on trial again. same sex marriage, put on trial again. and so we know, we have had those messages for a while. but i think what we do have in this country is this tendency to try to divide and conquer. >> yeah. >> and so we are trying to divide the rights to an abortion, from the many other rights and we need to see them altogether. >> it's not a question of the judiciary or the legislature, or the gubernatorial races. it's all interlinked. >> it is. >> professor anita hill, at brandeis university, thank you for your time, you are of course author of believing, a 30 year journey to gender violence, out in paperback

today. it is so important to think about these issues holistically. thank you for your time. >> appreciate it. >> we'll be right back. announcer: type 2 diabetes? discover the power of 3 in the ozempic® tri-zone. in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. announcer: ozempic® provides powerful a1c reduction. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it.

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that does for us tonight, we'll see you again tomorrow, now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening lawrence. >> good evening, alex and i have a feeling that this time tomorrow night, we will be in effect, simulcasting like the weather channel here. >> i think we will be doing our best, talk about meteorological patterns and we will also be hoping that the damage is not too extreme for the people of florida. >> yeah, it is definitely gonna be a rough night tomorrow night in the florida. at this point and we will find out what we find out then, tomorrow night. >> we will find out what we find out and we'll know what we'll know when we know it. >> that's right alex, have a good night. >> have a good show. >> thank you. >> the special master in the appropriately named case of donald j trump versus united states of america issued a new order in the case because what