in the words of governor ron desantis. some areas have been inundated with up to 30 inches of rain. two and a half million people are currently without power with two major counties essentially off the grid according to desantis. one county sheriff described the conditions he and first responders are faing on the ground this morning on "morning joe." >> we're finding that a will the of the roads are impassable, a lot of power lines down, a lot of flooding going on. i don't want to speculate on fatalities. we have had some reports being called in to us in reference to some potential bodies being found. >> some communities effectively cut off from the outside world. the bridge connecting sanibel island to the mainland has been severed. it was washed away by the storm surge, and this is the scene in bonita springs. it can only be described as catastrophic damage, with roofs

torn off buildings. the treacherous situation has led to rescues all across florida. the fire chief of fort myers says his department conducted 200 rescues overnight over the course of just a few hours. this video shows a group of good samaritans who call themselves the call your county cowboys, they pulled a man stranded in his car to safety. in orlando, a reporter who happened to be on the scene rescued a woman trapped in flood waters. the situation has led biden administration to pledge a fulsome response. president biden has officially declared ian to be a major disaster, a move that makes federal funding available immediately to several hard hit counties. president biden warned of tough times ahead for floridians. >> this could be the deadliest hurricane in florida's history. the numbers are still unclear, but we're hearing early reports of what may be substantial loss of life. we're going to learn a lot more

in the coming hours, but we know many families are hurting, many, many are hurting today, and our entire country hurts with them. >> the storm is now expected to strengthen again and turn back into a hurricane and make landfall in south carolina. fema today warns that hurricane ian remains a life-threatening storm. let's bring in nbc news correspondent, steve patterson. he's live in pa nell las park, florida. steve, tell us what's happening today, but also share with our viewers how you got through the night and what you saw. >> yeah, nicole, look, less than 24 hours before hurricane ian made landfall, some models had it directly hitting where i'm standing. you know, the counties that surround tampa bay essentially. people here are so thankful that that did not happen. however, that does not mean the storm damage escaped them. take a look behind me. you can see this tree down across the street taking down this power line. i'm going to walk towards it, but not too close.

this is an active live line, and then into the house behind that. this scene has been up pretty much for the last three or four hours. they can't get to it because there are more priority targets than just this. so we've got power lines down. we've got trees down. we've got, you know, some instances of flash flooding, some roofs that have been sheered off. but for the most part we've avoided the main hurricane damage in the major flooding that was predicted in this area still. the wind, the rain battered, hammered this area last night. several people report hearing almost like a train coming through, the wind, the rain, obviously incredibly tough for people to get through over the night. they have done that. meanwhile, people are still without power, some 120,000 customers in this county alone. you widen that out to the entirety of the tampa bay area. you're looking at more like half a million, still a far cry from what we're seeing down in a place like fort myers and charlotte county. obviously the damage is sporadic

here. it is still devastating to people that are still waiting to have their power turned back on to go another night and another night and another night. thankfully, though, this area did escape most of it. some people are even thinking about going down south to help out their neighbors in neighboring counties that were harder hit. for now, though, it is cleanup on a grand scale going street to street, assessors, utility workers trying to do their best to get power back on. >> steve, one thing that i know that the governor has emphasized and other officials have emphasized is how many people were standing by, even crews from outside of the state to help get things back online. but with such large sort of adjacent areas of the state so devastated, how is that work impacted or impaired? >> well, look, i mean, it's the entire state essentially, especially the western coast of florida, but now even the eastern coast and through the

central part of florida. so much was hit in such a small amount of time and is still being hit by bands of this storm. it's an incredible amount of work. you know, that being said, there are a lot of boots on the ground. 40,000 line workers, 5,000 national forward members here in florida activated. they're trying to get as far as they can, but there are so many like little neighborhoods like the one i'm standing in. right this scene is probably replicated 100 times throughout the state of florida, but this isn't even the worst scene that you can see. obviously people are under water. people are, you know, going to go days, weeks, months without power possibly, millions if not billions of dollars worth of damage. we don't know the loss of life. right now this is about assessment. how much was damage, how many people may have been killed. who's still injured. who still needs to be rescued. those are the primary things. that's the order of operation. after that we can talk about some house damage, some power lines that are down where they're not able to get a blockade on a street like this.

for now they just have to leave this up. i mean, this is what you have. so they've blocked this street off because there are more priorities than just the house like this. as dangerous of a situation as it is, because it is, if squad cars come by here and tell us, hey, you need to back up at least 15 or more feet or so, this is still not the priority here in florida. there is so much to do and it's going to take a long time. nicolle. >> steve, i know in the immediate aftermath, people have -- they express what you expressed, you know, a feeling that a bullet was dodged, that the worst of the storm didn't come here. how -- what is your sense from talking to people behind you and in the community about how long their patience will last without power and with questions about water and other things like that. >> yeah, people are so thankful though. they've seen the images like you and i have seen the images and they're haunting and they're terrible, they know, they feel

it in their bones. there was a guy who had a tree come down off the other side of this tree if you can believe it. took out most of his yard, almost took out the car on the other side. that was owned by a woman whose power is off. it just missed her daughter's car, but she's smiling because she's seen, again, what it looks like 50 miles south of here. now, she's going to be inconvenienced, and i'm sure if i asked her maybe the same question on thursday or friday, it may be a little bit different, but she knows that she's lucky. we know that we're lucky standing where we're standing, and i think this whole community can feel that and they're more worried about their neighbors in florida, you know, and other parts that were harder hit. still, very inconvenienced. this is repeated in this community, in this neighborhood, and it will be probably for several days until they can get to it, nicolle. >> so steve, you beat me to the punch. it is dangerous. i know from working in florida that a lot of the injuries come in the days after a storm like this.

so please stay away from downed wires and standing water, and please take care of yourself and your crew and let the people there know that we are all thinking about them. thank you so much for your reporting. >> we'll do that. nbc news meteorologist bill karins who has been up all night joins us with the latest. please confirm you've been up all night. i've seen you up all night. >> my pillow misses me. >> yeah, so i will shove this over to your side of the table. i want to just pull back the curtain on what we're contending with. i think it might be a window into the scope of this. our reporters are having a hard time moving around the state, having a hard time reaching some of them. tell me what that means about the state and what's going on in terms of what happened yesterday and last night. >> yeah, we're all kind of in this rush to find out what happened. people are in a rush that live in the area that had to evacuate, and everyone wants to know how's my house, how's my

community, how's my favorite beach. it's all the people that are evacuated, they're texting, they're calling everyone they possibly can and they're slowly finding out the verdict on their property. you know, was it okay? was it ruined? what did they have to come back to? did they have anything to come back to and they have to plan their lives from that point on. the sun's only been up for nine hours. we're just gathering at this point. obviously first responders are trying to answer the calls that are still coming in getting out to those people in the daylight hours when it's safer to do so. the winds didn't come down until the middle of the night. now that the storm is pulled away and the sun is out, now it's just full-fledged get in there and try to make everything as safe as possible, and then get to the people. you know, to put this storm into, you know, context, this will go down as the fifth strongest hurricane in our country's history. we started recording this thing in the 1800s. the worst one ever, the strongest winds was the labor

day hurricane hit down in the keys. camille was in the mississippi gulf port in the panhandle. andrew in south florida, michael wasn't that long ago. that was the one that hit mexico beach in florida, and then ian joins charlie, laura and ida for tied for fifth on the list. if i was to tell you the fifth strongest hurricane in our country recorded history went to a major population center and hit it square on, you would expect it to be a horrific disaster, and that's what we're watching today. so how bad is it going to be? i heard earlier, the insurance adjusters had computer models that they put this stuff into. how bad was the wind, what was the storm surge? i've heard estimates of 50 billion up to 100 billion at that point. we've adjusted numbers for history. katrina's the costliest hurricane we've ever had in this country, 186 billion. of course that horrific houston flood event was about 150. so all of a sudden when we get down here, hurricane sandy was

82 billion. all of a sudden we kind of sneak in here possibly as if being maybe the fourth most costliest hurricane we've ever had in this country. the other thing you want to notice, look at all the years, 2000s, 2000s, 2000s, we're going to add this to the list too. we have had now six category 4 or 5 hurricane landfalls in this country in six years. >> incredible. >> that's never happened before. >> so what does that say to you in terms of what this -- it seems like recovery, and i think puerto rico is going through this right now. recovery doesn't mean just putting things on, repairing a fragile grid. it seems to mean something entirely different. building something that can withstand this. >> yeah, i mean, it gets into the whole -- we don't know yet how many homes had water in them. we've seen the aerial pictures, right? all we have now, the knowledge we have is these pictures from these helicopters showing us the devastation on sanibel, 6,000 people live there.

of course the fort myers, the cape coral area. we know that there is six to eight feet of water in these areas. obviously i've had people ask me, why are we seeing houses on fire. when the houses get damaged, we get gas leaks, and that's why we have fires like that. that's very common, actually, unfortunately, after we get done with these disasters like this. so my fear with this storm, which is different than other ones is how many houses do we have that people can no longer live in. that evacuated, that now have to be -- find a place to live. now, it is a seasonal community. there's a lot of people that have houses other places and they come to that area, but there are also a lot of permanent residents that live in the fort myers area too. we've got to find shelter for a lot of people, a lot more than a lot of these other storms on that list behind me with harvey and marie and sandy. where do people go. and then obviously, you know, we get the whole climate change angle of this too. is this just going to be common?

you know, we keep having these hurricanes. there's no proof that we're having more hurricanes. now it's getting pretty obvious that the ones that form, they're getting strong. as i said, you know, six category 4 or 5. the ones that change communities, change neighborhoods, change people's lives the most are the stronger ones. those are the ones that can relocate and make you start your life over again. so that's kind of what we're looking at. if that's our new reality, then, you know, god help us. >> we need to clone you. let me just ask you about what happens next. where is this storm now? where is it heading? >> we don't want to ignore all our friends who are preparing. we want people in the carolinas, that are trying to make decisions should i leave my home. this is coming my way next. you're seeing the pictures of what it did. you're like i don't want to be in the way of this and evacuate. listen to your emergency managers. this will be a category 1, maybe at worst-case scenario category

2. highly doubt it. if they're telling you to get out, get out. if they're saying you're fine to ride this one out, make sure you have your hurricane supplies. the worst-case scenario will likely be maybe a week or so, maybe two weeks at most without power, wherever it makes landfall and gets the strongest wind. it's off the coast right now, and we do have those hurricane warnings up from just about savannah, charleston area, all within that area that could see hurricane force winds, and here's the path from the hurricane center. this willup date for us at 5:00. they do have it becoming a hurricane. it may not. a storm, tropical storm is going to do the same amount of damage. it's just kind of for the history books, it makes the headlines on tv. it's a hurricane again. it doesn't really matter as far as when it makes it onshore. we're looking tomorrow morning is when the gusty wind and the rain starts in the carolinas. then the winds will be mostly before the center. early in the morning is when most of the damage will happen with the trees falling on power lines, houses, cars, that sort of thing in this entire region.

then it will be a big rainstorm as it heads to friday and saturday. we're not going to see pictures like what we have out there. it's going to be a category 1. if a big huge tree is over your property and that falls on your house, then, you know, that ruins your plans. >> everyone stay safe. when do you sleep? >> whenever i can. this weekend maybe. >> thank you for staying up to share all this really, really important stuff with us. we're really grateful. let's turn now to the disaster response teams on the ground. this video is from hard hit fort myers shot by team rubicon. it's an emergency response nonprofit. they've been deployed all across the state for several days now in advance of the storm. team rubicon's ceo art de la cruz joins us now. you're headquartered sort of out of where a lot of the damage is, but you're dispatching teams all over the state. i wonder if you can just take me through what your most critical missions are right now. >> yeah, right now the critical mission is the previous -- have talked about.

it's just understanding -- presently here in tallahassee where we've got gray shirts embedded with the agency, and they're across the state trying to understand, you know, exactly where those needs are. we do know that there are some critical needs, and we've had teams that have moved forward. they're essentially heavy equipment and i.e. they can cut down trees, and what they're doing is beginning to cut their way into the area for emergency managers and fire departments, et cetera, have to go in there to be able to gain access. so they're doing that. the other element, we have five reconnaissance teams, and these are teams that, you know, travel by truck begin to talk to the emergency managers. they begin to understand what is happening in these communities and what type of unmet needs

there are, and how team rubicon can begin to address those to help the communities recover more quickly. >> i'm familiar with what team rubicon does and who team rubicon is made up of and the global reach, the response to disasters worldwide, but in case any of our viewers are not, will you just quickly tell us about team rubicon? >> yeah, of course. team rubicon is an organization that helps communities prepare, respond, and recover in natural disasters and humanitarian crises. as we speak, we have our volunteers in puerto rico, ukraine, rebuilding homes, actually in alaska as well and all over florida. these are men and women who put down what they're doing and they give our time and energy to help people on their worst days. >> what sort of reports back are you getting from the field at this point? i was just sharing that, you know, even for us, we've got correspondents that were all over the state, and it's tiflt

difficult for some of them to move around. some of the hardest hit areas, we see those images. what feedback are you hearing from your team? >> you know, our teams continue to move out and frankly they're moving their way into the disaster zones. i think what they're describing, which is flooding. it's debris. it is just the tip of the iceberg. we all know from the tissue that are -- coming in, it is sad, and i think it will continue to go. i think it's, you know, incredibly important time to stand up. it's also a very unsafe environment. more people get hurt after the disaster than during oftentimes. i think this is one of those times where we have to continue -- and also, you know, saving the life and helping communities get back on their feet as quickly as possible. >> art de la cruz, thank you for what you do, and thank you for spending some time talking to us. we're grateful. >> thank you for having me,

nicolle. >> when we come back, someone who knows all too well about these devastating days and what they're like for the state of florida. craig fugate led recovery efforts for years as head of emergency management in the state at the national level. he says after what he has seen today, ian will end up being the worst hurricane southwest florida has ever experienced. and still ahead, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas ginny thomas, she finally testified in person today before the january 6th select committee. and almost two years after president joe biden's win in the 2020 election, you will not believe what she said. she told the committee she thinks the election was stolen from donald trump. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. e" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. for the #1 stain fighter and odor remover, it's got to be tide. president biden has now signed the inflation reduction act into law. ok, so what exactly does it mean for you?

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jacob. watch over here. >> that was my house. my house is gone. >> it's just our guests keep saying the tip of the iceberg, just a few of the scenes of the devastation that we're beginning to see out of florida right now after hurricane ian tore through that state. here you can see a cameraman stopping in the middle of covering the news to help families fleeing to safety. while in orlando, nursing home residents had to be evacuated on

stretchers. these heartbreaking stories of bravery and perseverance keep coming. nbc's kerry sanders talking to one woman unable to evacuate who had no choice but to put a life vest on her paralyzed husband and take shelter under a table. >> i hid under the kitchen table. >> under the table? >> yeah, i made kind of a fort with pillows and blankets and i hit under the table. before i hid, i had to protect my husband. >> how did you protect him, and what was that like? >> that was terrifying. i took some blankets, and i put holes in them with a scissors and i zip tied them to the hospital bed and i took a big tarp lan that had grom mets and i zip tied them. and then i put a life jacket so he wouldn't drown, he would float. >> quite an ordeal for you. >> i don't want him to die. >> of course. and he's okay, right? >> he's alive. he's traumatized but he's alive. >> clearly a lot of traumatized

people, fellow citizens in the state of florida. joining us now, craig fugate, the fema administrator under president obama. he's seen his share of natural disasters of hurricanes specifically, and he's led recovery efforts in that state and others for years. craig, just first tell me personally what you think when you see both the scope and size of the storm and the devastation that we're seeing just in these early hours afternoon. >> yeah, i was on the ground in upon ta gor da after hurricane charlie. so knowing that this storm is going to be bigger, knowing that there were going to be a lot more storm surge. i lived in the state. i've been down in these areas. we've worked a lot with the local officials, we've done a lot of planning. we've responded to smaller events. this is one of those events that i think -- that's why i said

this is the worst hurricane to ever strike southwest florida. this is hurricane andrew. they don't have the history of it and everything that is occurring is record setting. but also, we -- there is an advantage, i think, sometimes when you think about these storms is florida continues to learn and build capabilities so the lessons of hurricane andrew, the lessons of hurricane michael, again, are applied. so the ability to bring a lot of responders from across the state to support local governments. governor desantis leading the florida national guard, emergency management. you know, the fema folks that are coming in to support that is unfortunate that this has happened, a lot of what is occurring has been built upon past tragedies. >> craig, let me show you something that deon kriswell the fema administrator said this morning on -- specifically on the situation at the hospitals.

oh, let me read it to you. she said there are nine hospitals that they're focused on in lee county, the reports that she had in the morning was that lee county's water has been disrupted so we're focused on a couple of things. we're supporting the state in assessing what the extent of the damage is, how quickly it can be repaired and whether we're going to have to do additional evacuations if we can't get it repaired quickly enough. let me ask you about the excruciaing choices between bad and terrible when you look at hospital evacuations. do you see this number of nine hospitals out of power, some of them without water, you know, what are your questions when you look at that this morning? >> well, yeah, i've been through this. we evacuated the hospitals in charlotte county. after that we evacuated hospitals in new york city or superstorm sandy. i mean, really for fema, this is pretty much what they do.

they're going to want to know how many patients and where are they going. they've already dispatched several hundred ambulances into the state, so if they cannot restore the water system and if the hospital administrators say, okay, we need to evacuate, resources have already been moved in and quite honestly, this is not easy. but these are the kind of things that, you know, the state and fema plan for, and they need to make those decisions based upon what the, you know, the hospital administrators and the local officials say we can get up, what we can't get up, and if we need to move patients where we're taking them. that's, again, i've done this, we had to do this in the middle of the night or after hurricane charlie. we had three hospitals that all came to the same conclusion. they were no longer viable and they need to impact the rest of the -- it is something that this is why we do emergency management. this is why we build a team so we can work together in case we have to do this. >> craig, one of the most important things in these early days when people may look outside and it's not raining or

blowing but as all of our reporters and guests have pointed out, a lot of the injuries and deaths do often occur in these early hours after a storm before power and services have been restored. >> well, i'm going to tell people to do something they don't want to do. if you're somewhere safe, stay there. i know they want to get back and see what's left. they want to find out what's happened, but the responders are still working in very hazardous situations and trying to get in and locate people, complete the rescues. you've got utility crews that are assessing. this is still a very hazardous area. the safest thing for people to do if they're somewhere safe is stay there. again, we know that this is still very hazardous. we have seen time and time again florida where we have people lose their lives after the hurricane. traffic accidents, electrocutions, drownings, falls, carbon monoxide poisoning. it is an extremely dangerous

environment for the next several days, the next several weeks. for right now this is a day after. let the responders and officials get in there and start working and wait until they give you the all clear to come in. i know that's not what you want to hear. that is the way to allow the responders to do their jobs, to get the people that still need to be rescued and keep you safe so you don't add to the workload as they're trying to get the communities to even begin thinking about the next steps of recovery. >> craig fugate, it's a pleasure and a privilege to get to talk to you today. thank you so much for your time. >> thanks for having me. switching gears for us. after the break, ginny thomas, the wife of a supreme court justice. her connections with former chief of staff mark meadows and coup architect and planner john eastman are sure to have been of interest to the committee. we'll talk with the former committee staff member former

congressman denver riggleman said her actions should be, quote, an eye opener for everybody. that story is next. ody. that story is next like she goes to work at three in the afternoon and sometimes gets off at midnight. she works a lot, a whole lot. we don't get to eat in the early morning. we just wait till we get to the school. so, yeah. right now here in america, millions of kids like victoria and andre live with hunger, and the need to help them has never been greater. when you join your friends, neighbors and me to support no kid hungry, you'll help hungry kids get the food they need. if we want to take care of our children, then we have to feed them. your gift of just $0.63 a day, only $19 a month at helpnokidhungry.org right now will help provide healthy meals and hope. we want our children to grow and thrive and to just

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so many people are overweight now, and asking themselves, or go online to "why can't i lose weight?" for most, the reason is insulin resistance, and they don't even know they have it. conventional starvation diets don't address insulin resistance. that's why they don't work. now there's release from golo. it naturally helps reverse insulin resistance, stops sugar cravings, and releases stubborn fat all while controlling stress and emotional eating. at last, a diet pill that actually works. go to golo.com to get yours. did you speak with your husband about your belief that the election was stolen? >> thank you for your question. i look forward to answering members. >> she didn't say much, but pretty extraordinary moment

today. stood back just a half an inch and think about it, what is the wife of a sitting supreme court justice on her way to talk to the congressional committee investigating the deadly insurrection at the united states capitol, ginny thomas sat through three and a half hours of questioning today, and when it was all over, january 6th select committee chairman bennie thompson confirmed two things. first, that ginny thomas told the panel she still believes the 2020 presidential election was stolen from trump, and second, that ginny thomas is still considered a witness, that she hasn't officially been accused of anything. while we don't yet know what the committee asked her, it is pretty obvious what the committee hoped to learn. in addition to her correspondence with the architect of the coup itself, john eastman, her repeated appearances in former chief of staff mark meadow's surrendered text messages.

paint the picture of not only a conservative activist but a diluted one with a direct line to the highest levels of the federal government, apparently aiding in the effort and egging them on to overturn the result of the 2020 election. her lawyer said in a statement that she answered all of the committee's questions. and once again, she also happens to be clarence thomas's spouse. a few questions about how much he knew about what his wife was doing to overturn the 2020 presidential election. you aren't the only one. former republican congressman denver riggleman once a member of the january 6th committee staff was responsible for assembling and interpreting much of the committee's collected data. in his brand new book "the breach" riggleman writes this, although i had suspected it, i was taken aback when we definitively tied all these messages to ginni thomas. she seemed mentally unwell. what really shook me was the fact that if clarence agreed with or was even aware of his wife's efforts, all three

branches of government would be tied to the stop the steal movement. just wow. joining us now, the man we just read from, former congressman and a former adviser to the house january 6th selectrigglem "the breach: the untold story into the investigation of january 6th" is out right now. it is a bombshell and it's making a lot of waves, and we'll deal with the bombshells and the waves. we need to deal with ginni thomas first. i read the book, i never looked at it that way. what thomas does is ties all three branches of government. we have the 19 members, he described them as such to doj. we have trump's known efforts to participate in the violence. what you talk about is the spouse of one of nine supreme court justices actively involved in the legislative work, which is the actual sort of hand to hand grass roots work of

overturning an election result. >> thanks for having me. i think one of the things, you know, when you look at the text messages, people want to concentrate on the qanon sort of crazy stuff and the things they said about the biden crime family. what got me was about in the middle of the text messages, there were 29, 21 she sent to meadows and eight that meadows sent back to her. right in the middle she forwards a text message from the chief of staff of louie gohmert, and i think that's when i started sort of locking in to our team were the first one to see it, right, after those two people had seen it, and to read it, to look at it. this was, what, february, early february. it was just sort of shocking to see that she was also talking about, you know, direct contact with jared kushner. so those -- i know people really want to concentration, and they should that qanon has saturated every level of the gop by that point. the fact that she was talking about interacting with jared kushner and she was forwarding

texts from a congressional staff is really where i started to think even in early february this was not a good look for a supreme court justice spouse. >> so you're separating out in your data analysis a radicalization, which is the qanon ideology from the operational aspects. let's deal with that, the operational aspects. tell me what as you mapped the communications, what the story of the data connections test. >> it was looking at the evolution of it from the beginning of november to the end of january. i've gone over these things so many times. >> are you looking at meadows' texts that were produced? >> >> that was one of the first things we received, and i guess that was back in december, right? so we got that, and you know, the staff had done a pretty good job, i think, with some of the names, but we had to validate a lot of stuff, so when we got it, you know, we started looking at the content, but we didn't have all the names associated with the numbers. so some of the context said hey, my name is joe smith.

that was probably joe smith. we could validate the numbers. what we saw at the beginning of november, early november 5th or 6th. it's amazing to see texts from emails or texts from numbers saying, hey the elector scheme started as early as november 5th, maybe earlier, november 4th. >> and ginni was one of them texting about the alternate electors back in november. >> back in november. so you're thinking, well, we only asked for texts back to the beginning of november, but as you know, i was working this problem well before november. so i already knew that that was -- that kind of stuff had been discussed back in the fall. that's why i did the qanon resolution, that was about two years ago. me and you talked about that. that was a lonely time. i think it's seeing that and then seeing all of the different types of individuals. congressional members, trump family members, trump associates, senators, all of them involved in trying to sort of form and manipulate the election based on their own

theories that was everything from italy fwaet, italian satellites changing votes is to romanian and ukrainian digital mules coming across the border, so that's what started to open our eyes that this was all the way. this was from the congressional side, the executive side and the legal theories that we saw and that's the triangle you're looking at. right? the legal, the political, and the legislative and executive. >> so ginni thomas is operationalizing the eastman memo. she's writing the legislators and telling them using her name, telling them to overturn the biden vote, which was thrice counted in some of these states by republicans in some of these states. do you think that she's of interest to doj? >> i think she would be. i mean, if you're -- it's interesting the first two states she sent emails to, you start looking at other documentation. it looks a lot like peter

navarro's deception document. when you read giuliani's communication plan or these bizarre memos. or phil waldron's briefing. all of these actually align. so when you see people pushing the stop l the steal nonsense, a lot of it based on conspiracy theories, you see this interweaving of conspiracy theories and strategy. that's what's so fascinating about this is that there was a strategy to overturn the election based on fantasy. it would be like saying we should overturn the election based on alien abductions. >> yeah, but i guess my pushback is they're using the strategy to rig the next one. i mean, they've put -- i think the most alarming thing that happened today on this story is that bennie thompson confirms that ginni thomas still believes the lie. she believes the 2020 election was stolen from donald trump. >> nicolle, that is why i wrote the book.

you know, it's in the data, right? it's a great parable to say slow and steady wins the race. great. we're in a new battle space now, and two years ago was the election more or less. so with the speed of data, with people changing their tactics and their procedures, we have to right now start looking at this in a very different way, and that's the tiny iest little bits of data. we did a thousand interviews. our piece with the millions of lines of data, called detail records and open source intelligence materials where we're looking at people in the deep, dark and open web, that's it. but looking at that, there's millions of links, right, or tens of thousands of links. you get this idea that the command and control was very good, right? they came very close, and now they've learned the lessons. it's two years. we better look forward, and nicolle, that i think was an incredible point. we have the midterms coming up

in 2024. how many people now believe the election was stolen and what kind of people were running for office. and now you got president trump retruthing, you know, pictures with him now is maybe worse than i think before january 6th. >> why did you write the book? >> fear, you know, really fear. you know, it's been 14 months and i think part of it was intensely personal, you know, what had happened to me. the fact is the military and the government has trained me at a level to do this that's pretty neat, you know, and this is my kind of thing. and i love data. so instead of something you know, i think as people read it, this is additive. the data shows the committee is in an incredibly strong position and they're going in the right direction and i wanted to prove to people, listen, the littlest pieces of data, what people are doing right now, we need more resources and a new way of looking at this problem. i figured if i didn't get this out now, if i waited aier, i don't want to be accuse odd of

holding things back, and also, you know we wrote this book in ten weeks. so you know, i have a lot in my head, but i had to put a team together that could keep up with me, and they did. i'm absolutely terrified based on what happened in my life, my friends, my family, but also this country. we have a diseased system and we've got to get out in front of it. >> and it's only on one side. it's on the republican side. i think there's something that former republicans feel more -- they see -- they see how far the party has fallen and how dangerous they can be. is that part of what you feel? >> how dare they, right? you know, and i think that's what it is is how dare somebody make things up to win regardless, right? try to destroy our institutions because you believe in some troll farm nonsense coming from, you know, basement dwellers, you know, talking about stop the steal conspiracy theories. that's all based on another basement dweller like roger

stone. >> they got to ginni thomas. >> got to members of congress, got to senators. i don't think what hasn't come out -- and i was very careful about that, just the hundreds of links attached to these text messages. videos that would just shock the country. you'd be like there's no way a sitting member would send these videos. that's why when you're the first and you go through all of them, and i'm the one who broke out every link, you know how long that took? >> you're looking at the tax and you're opening up the asinine bs, it's political junk, but what was it? what were they sending around? >> a lot of them were foreign videos. >> like russian manufactured -- >> absolutely. >> can you give me like 50% russian, 20% domestic crazies? >> oh, it was mostly domestic crazy. the foreign stuff was nuts, but the domestics were winning. if this was the ryder cup of crazy, the americans won it, right?

so it was just unbelievable, the stuff you're seeing. somebody who believes you're center right, believes in limited government, believes in freedom of thought. you're looking at these christian nationalist memes, you're looking at this oaf the top good against evil apocalyptic theories or even within the text messages talking about groomers or pedophiles or how people were making money or democrats were making money on child trafficking. nobody's pushing back. there's not a chief of staff pushing back saying hey maybe get off the crack. right? that's the kind of thing -- >> so i want to put this out there. meta data is something the country first heard about in the context of post 9/11, metadata is what you use to put all the pieces together. not just the grass roots crazies but the highest levels of the republican establishment touching the supreme court, touching the congress and touching the white house. i want to put that out there, and i want to talk about that.

>> sure. on the other side of a quick break. don't go anywhere. of a quick break. don't go anywhere. super emma just about sleeps in her cape. but when we realized she was battling sensitive skin, we switched to tide hygenic clean free. it's gentle on her skin and out-cleans our old free detergent. tide hygenic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin. do you take aspirin? plain aspirin could be hurting your stomach. vazalore 325 liquid-filled aspirin capsule is clinically shown in a 7 day study

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our civil liberties, and keep families together. i hope you'll join me in supporting the aclu today. because we the people means all of us. call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire i have another hour of questions for you, let me start with this one. if i came to set on january 6th, the timeline will tell you everything.

this is a domestic terror attack on holding, and if you look at other national security crises, it's the timeline that tells you the story of september 11th. and so that's why all the content in early november is so interesting. this is a text that happened on november 5th. the qff block chain -- sounds crazy already -- have been part of the huge trumpet and military white hat sting operation in key battleground states. 2500 -- and ballot fraud co-conspirators, social media, fake stream media reporters, et cetera, are being arrested and detained for valid fraud and will be living in barges of gitmo to face military extradition. before we get to how bad --

crazy that is, let's look at the date. >> that's what's important. whatever intelligence official you are talking to is pretty darn smart. i deployed right after 9/11, and the timeline is important. you want to see is at the beginning of the planning cycle. that's how you do things. that was the first text i read, by the way. that's what i call a bourbon text. you need to get a bourbon to read it again. because she is sort of basing that off, who is a noted conspiracy theorist. and the guy has done things that he said he hasn't. when you look at where she's getting the data, what you do is you start looking into where that data may be coming from. back on november 5th. and like i told you, when me and tom started building the queue and on resolution in august, i was already seeing

that data. i was tweeting things and trying to get in front of this, because we were already seeing that things are going a little nuts. and trump was doing that before november 3rd. when you see this on november 5th -- >> to mark meadows. >> and there's no pushback from chief of staff -- >> they were never planning on leaving. >> november 5th is pretty obvious. when you start going through all of the text messages that we know of, that we received, when you start going through it, there's never a change in the evolution of a plan to overturn the election. and a lot of it comes from these type of conspiracy theories. a lot of people were sourcing stuff. a lot of these individuals were parsing and sourcing from areas that were may be literally a combination of massive graft and insanity. >> from november 5th through the end of the year, they take all the crazy stuff into courtrooms, and they lose every case.

i never muster any evidence that any of it is true. why do they still believe it now? be mac because the globalist deep states new world order has taken over. >> they got to the trump appointed judges?'s be mac of course they did. i'm saying this completely sarcastically. there's this belief that faith is always more powerful than fact when it comes to that. that's what i've even noted in anecdotal and personal conversations. i can say, how about this, guys? if all the folks went to biden in some late-night slough, why did the republicans win? >> right, why did the republican members of congress go back? >> but it doesn't matter, because there some massive algorithm that is able to pick and choose where it wants to go in different states with different voting rules, different baseline software, different hardware, right?

>> what is your degree of alarm about the state of domestic extremism and delusion in america? >> looking now, i think my alarm is more than it was january 5th. >> what does that mean? >> i think you look at those that are now openly embracing christian nationalism, people still thinking the election was stolen. you're looking at doug mastery i know, these people won primaries. as a former public, you talk about it being personal. how are people that diluted? either they are the most amazing sociopathic grifters i've ever seen, or they are stupid. and they are somehow mixing charisma. words like a combination of all three. ginni thomas, is somebody, who sadly, i think reverted back to her sort of -- and sadly -- conspiracy theories. i think conspiracy theories,

she's attracted to. i think that's sad, but it shouldn't be somebody is actually attached to the most powerful republican in the country. clarence thomas is more powerful than trump, than anybody. when ginni thomas walks in there, she wants to be made happy. i don't even care at this point if it's criminal. we have a diseased system or somebody with that kind of access can push that type of nonsense and promised to overturn an election. >> you did something really, really risky, and you put a lot of information out there that's really important to everything going on in the country and let the chips fall where they may, and i'm glad you are out there telling us what you know and what you in the data. thank you very much. the untold story of the investigation into the untold story of january 6 is released today. there is brand-new reporting on

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>> that's why we made the decision to get out there and get after it in the middle of the dark. as soon as the wind passed and got over 45, our staff ceased fire. they got out there and made

close to about 200 rescues, four feet, 10 feet, or getting people out and getting them to shelter. we can replace buildings, we can place structures, we can't replace people. such as water, such as power, such as things that can actually get us through for those processes. >> hi again, everyone. 26 hours after hurricane ian made landfall in lord of, emerging is a picture of other devastation and destruction with massive rescue efforts underway. the historic flooding walloped the southwest version of the date. in the last hour, they reported 6 fatalities. that's according to a county administrator. during a visit to fema headquarters today, president biden issued a grave warning

that ian might be the deadliest hurricane and tortoise history, and there were reports that loss of life may be substantial. the associated press captured these images of damage to houses and infrastructure that looks positively apocalyptic. more than 2.5 million florida residents are left without power. first responders have been inundated with calls for help those they thought could write out or wait out the storm, or those who had no choice but the day behind. tragically, the storm's lap is not over. ian crossed the state of florida. it is now in the atlantic ocean where it is just now been upgraded to a hurricane once again and is due to make landfall again tomorrow morning and south carolina. we begin the hour with ali velshi on the phone in naples. tell me what's happening today that also, for our viewers, who followed our every live shot, take us to our overnight last night, you will. >> thank you for having us back

again. i'm not on tv with you, because we are actually trying to relocate. we are on the north side of me naples. we are trying to get to fort myers, because we know there's a actually more damage there. we have 6 people in charlotte county who are reported dead, and at this point, it's not a state count, a number of the commissioners were trying to make some sense of how bad this is. last night, the water dissipated, and it is now starting to come back to normal. there is still no power here. there's no running water. there's been water advisories in effect in some places. authorities are asking people to either cautiously go out and try to clean up around them so that they can debris off the street, and powerline workers can come in and try to fix things. and again, while the storm has passed it into the atlantic and that more damage overnight, we are now seeing, after first light this morning, we look at

places like fort myers beach. the destruction is quite, quite, quite severe. as you and i were talking yesterday, were looking at the accommodation of a big hurricane, 155 miles an hour, when it came ashore close to fort myers. and the surge that you and i witnessed yesterday, where it came in -- by the way, i suspected my cars were washed away, they were. which, another reason i'm on the phone with you, because we are trying to secure transportation to ortmeier's. you think about that, there are tens of thousands of vehicles. there are tens of thousands of homes that are inundated with water. you can't just roll back in. you then have to figure out, is there damage? how does that get repaired? there's cars all over the place, there is still a lack of power all over florida, now more than 2 million people without power.

on the other hand, they have 30,000 power workers that will come in from all across the country, and they say they are ready to go and they start working. i can see the power trucks and the power workers. so that's the situation. it's a bright, sunny, clear day. that's been very helpful for authorities as they try to move on. and at least the storm, it's behind florida. whether it comes back as a category one, or as a hurricane ashore in georgia or south carolina, is another issue. but florida has now seen the back of it. >> people come up and tell you their stories. i've seen it in poland and florida. tell me what you are seeing from people who have been affected. >> i talked to people who actually watched one of our vehicles float by. they were in the building there, they were actually saying the team a few vehicles, one of which completely went into the water. and they couldn't tell, because

it was raining, whether or not anyone was in the vehicle. whether someone was driving and they have been inundated. so three men went down into higher than waste deep water to check, and they determine the car was empty, but there is nothing they could do about it at that point. the car ended up in the water. i talked to another guy was working at the hotel that we were staying at, and he was telling me that they lived in a motorhome -- in a motorhome park. and so they have come to the hotel where they worked to be safer, and they've also lost their cars. one was insured, the other one wasn't. and it's gone. so everybody's got some story of loss. and while we are hoping that the best, the death toll isn't higher than it is, there are tens of thousands of people who are suffering some loss. and even today, for most people, that's okay. they can live without power for two days. for a lot of people, stuff still happens.

they still have to go to the hospital. whenever we think these storms are done and we think we can move on, there are literally tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of people in lord of whose lives are altered for a very long time, and possibly forever. >> you are trying to move around the state. how difficult is that? >> a little tricky, he goes without power, you don't have traffic lights, which means every intersection, you are either hoping people abide by the rules and don't cause accidents. are police in the street that are trying to help traffic, but every police officer or something corralling traffic is somebody who's not available to do something else. we think everybody in collier county who was trapped has been rescued, and most of the rescues are done and leave county as well, which is the fort myers area. we don't know for sure. you look around, and you see all the people who are leaving

motels, trying to go back to their place is, trying to see what it looks like, and there still bridges that are out, and we still have the islands on the west coast of florida where we don't have a full picture. we know the damage. we can see that. maybe they're taking pictures and trying to get images. but we still don't know if there are people there. that we didn't know about. so that's going to take a couple of days so we can kind of exhale and say, okay, most of the people got out, and most of the people are safe. we don't know that. with each new report we get, we are holding our breath and hoping that there wasn't greater loss of life. >> i been waiting to talk to you today, so thank you so much for calling in. please stay safe, and send up a flare when you get to your next. we will be looking at you in your reporting. joining our coverage, the commissioner collier county, florida, who is currently on

marco island. rick, you are one of the most impactful people i spoke to yesterday. when you are writing out the storm, i want to hear what's happening today and right now, but i just want you to bring me back to 24 hours ago and take me through the night for you. >> i had a command center set up here, and things got really bad so we hunkered down. thankfully, we evacuated quite a few people. the big difference between the storm and some of the other hurricanes, the last one was irma in 2017, irma was more about the wind and the rain. this one for us, and southwest florida, we were in the southeast quadrant of the florida. a lot of times meteorologists will remind someone, you are in the dirty part of the storm and you are going to get storms search. marco island, and aisles of pre- , and goodland. these are all coastal towns that are a beautiful piece of

paradise, but their elevation sometimes is literally zero. the distance you see above sea level, 12 feet of storm surges catastrophic. we were able to dodge some serious storm surge with irma, but this one came out of -- in all the right ways and bad ways, quickly -- i spent all day -- i district as a big chunk of naples, marco island, and all the other places i mentioned, to just get a feel of the damage. allie is right. there's utility trucks everywhere. they really been trying to direct them to the places that have the most need and would most positively affect the most people quickly. you get a lot of calls, my power is out, but if you are in a grid with minimal people, we are trying to get hospitals and make sure they are perfectly online. even food stores, so that the masses can go there. so some of the neighborhoods the end of

the block may not be the ultimate ellipse this you know, the initial priority. i spent a while driving around the aisles of capri, which is a very small sort of fishing village town, and literally, every house has a big pilot furniture and carpets in front of it. the thing about water is, unlike losing your roof or you lose your cool cage or something like that, if the structure is intact, you can come back from being evacuated. but if you have three, four, five, six of water in your house, that's not something that you could just ride out. if you evacuate and come back, you are going to find a really horrific situation and a living condition. >> rick, take us through how your constituents are doing. we are reading about some of the heroic rescues that started overnight. it's sounded like you said yesterday you were in touch with about 400 contact. tell me how people are doing in terms of those safeties.

>> you know, you got folks down here that have lived here all their lives, or that have retired down here. but i would hope every county commissioner would say this, i'm so proud, were so proud of our first wrist ponders, and it's not just here in collier county. we've been sharing workloads. north of us, they got hit hard, but in different ways. some of the levels of expertise we have for water rest you, if they were needed as much, we were quick to settle those first responders north. but you are hearing these isolated incidents that are adding up to a larger group than i would have liked to hear as far as people who didn't evacuate. >> this is a resort town. you know, we have -- e -- everything is gotten shut off because of the storm, and you aren't always aware of -- some

first responders in the neighborhood, either knocking on doors or hearing from -- >> rick, we are starting to have some of that with you. we will try to get a better connection with you. we will stay in touch with you. that's the county commissioner of collier county. please let all your constituents know that we are thinking of them. we hope that you and they said they safe. the recovery from hurricane ian is expected, if you just heard there, to take many months. joining us, a real expert in all of this, a retired general. he was the commander of the joint task force in the aftermath of hurricane katrina. general, it's an honor to get to talk to you today. i have 1 million questions, and i want to first start with your impressions of the devastation that you seen. >> this might be one of the biggest ones we've had in the country. we've had deadlier ones thus

far. we don't know what the number is. we had betsy and katrina, but this might be the biggest and the most destructive from the amount of terrain it has caused, and it is still raising havoc on the east coast. and it's maybe not even halfway through its lifecycle yet. this is a big one, nicole. i think this one is up on the list -- that being said, i'm impressed with the interagency response and how fast people are getting there. >> it seems like there's this window where, you know, the rain stops and the wind stops, but we still don't have our eyes on what has actually happened. what are your earliest questions? what were the first reports that you would want from the people from these hardest hit areas? >> well, we backup the local

bar and police communities. i suspect there's a lot we don't know. donald rumsfeld said, you don't know what you don't know. i suspect there's a lot of people that are remaining in their homes that need help. the storm did make a turn, and it surprised some people. and the amount of water that came ashore, i got contacted by a couple of people that are still waiting to be rescued, which is not unusual. some of them have to wait a while. because they might have a mobility issue. you got to get there. and they are still pouring in enough search and rescue teams. imagine about 250,000 houses, nicole. here we are talking multiples of 10 times more than that, just between a landfall in

orlando. so it's a massive amount of work, and i think they're going to have to give more search and rescue teams, because everybody's got to go knock on every door. >> you know a bit about the tragic history of katrina and the hospitals. we learn from the fema administrator today that their nine hospitals in lake county that she's worried about. those have to be excruciating decisions, whether or not you evacuate sick patients, or just take me inside what that's like for policymakers. >> yeah, that's a hard one. they have a priority for communications. they have priority for getting electricity, and they have priority for generators and gas. for obvious reasons. but in this case, when they lost water, losing water, as we see in jackson, mrs. b, is a disaster onto it all. so they are going to have to make some decisions on that grid, because it looks like

they have major grid failure in lee county. i don't see how you could keep people in their for very long, even if you tried to get the water and the electricity back on with their amount of damage to the homes. so they are going to have to make some decisions on how they are going to put people in places where they can survive while their homes go through recovery, because after watching this last year, nicole, with ida, category 4, we still got 5000 people in trailers. and that was a very small population compared to what we have seen right here with this storm. this is enormous. but it's got to get done, and we are going to need some first responders. they don't have enough people on the ground to go knock on all those doors. i'm not there, but that's my best judgment at this time. they want to have to push more people in there.

>> what you are talking about is relocating people, right? a storm surge this high, they have to be rebuilt. what is a long-term commitment? what is the long-term need for a storm with this much water damage in this wide-open area impacted ? >> we hadn't done this before. we hadn't done this before. on this level or scale. and it is still causing havoc up around sonoma. so we need to find a new way, because the old way of trying to bring trailers and, i don't think that's going to work here. we are going to have to fight with new techniques to deal with this many people meeting temporary shelter, and we done it in the past. the old playbook from fema on how we do recovery is going to have to change. you know, we have housing for hurricane laura or maria.

many insurance companies, 10 of them in louisiana. recovery is going to be a living . that's where all these politicians who have all these extra energy, or want to offer money at the congress and the state level to figure out how we are going to recover this large of a -- not just for the money, getting the money will probably be the easy part. but getting the logistics, and how do you deal with the debris? who's going to live where? the government has got to make some hard decisions. >> i'm just thinking all of the lives and all the upheaval and all the relocation, all the families impacted just back to school. i'm going to make a bold prediction here. i'm sure your phone is going to ring. you are one of the world's foremost experts on all of this, and we are grateful that you took some time to talk to us. thank you so much.

>> have a good day. god bless. god bless our first responders, god bless florida. >> we will continue to cover the story of the devastation in florida from hurricane ian, we are going to go back to the breaking news we covered at the bottom of the last hour. the january 6th hearing, and jimmy thomas's appearance before the committee. a quick break, stay with us. you can always spot a first timer. gain flings with oxi boost and febreze. do you take aspirin? plain aspirin could be hurting your stomach. vazalore 325 liquid-filled aspirin capsule is clinically shown in a 7 day study to cause fewer ulcers than immediate release aspirin. vazalore is designed to help protect... releasing aspirin after it leaves your stomach... where it is absorbed to help prevent another heart attack or stroke. heart protection with your stomach in mind. vazalore. the first liquid-filled aspirin capsules...amazing! you love closing a deal.

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>> for us, we are going to go back to that starting moment on capitol hill today. because it's perhaps still something, we are going to hear it again for you.

what ginny thomas said during her 3.5 hours with january 6 committee investigators today, an extraordinary moment under unprecedented circumstances. the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, the loan to center giving testified access to the ex-president's records, which included text messages from his wife. she was questioned by a committee about her communications of the architects of the plot. she told them today, nearly two years later. >> so she says she still believes the election was stolen?

>> not sure exactly what the reporter was asking. luke broadwater, who has a brand-new story, and author of the new york times at msnbc container joins us. and andrew wiseman is here, former justice department prosecutor for me senior member of robert mueller senior counsel investigation, also an nbc legal analyst. before i read it out loud, why don't you just tell us what you reported? >> right. so a group of us reporters were there outside deposition room, i guess, in the o'neill building. about four hours, while ginny thomas was being interviewed by the january 6 committee. we understand that she stuck to her claims that there was widespread fraud in the election and that it was stolen, but she said she did not discuss her activities with her husband, justice thomas.

we do know that according to her lawyer, she answered every committee question, but we also know from the committee that she found some of her evidence useful enough that they may well use it at their upcoming hearing. so we could see some ginny thomas clips at the next hearing. and let's just remember what she wasn't called with. she was pressing state legislatures, sending these letters to different date legislators she was texting, to the chief of staff, mark meadows. she was in communications with john eastman. the john eastman thing is what the committee is most interested in, because they view him as one of the intellectual architect of the plan to overturn the election, and in effect, steal the election. and remember, those text messages to mark meadows, she said she had been in touch with jared kushner, and she even recommended cindy powell as a lawyer in the efforts to be the

election. those four hours could've covered a lot of ground. we don't know everything, it was a closed-door hearing, we don't have a transcript in front of us. but we are getting a good sense of what was asked and answered. >> the wife of a supreme court justice is testifying before the committee investigating the insurrection, that committee gained access to some of its most fruitful evidence because the supreme court voted 8-1 to give them access to the ex- president's records. her husband is a low dissent. so at a minimum, it's a perception problem for the united date supreme court, and one we need to be aware of. she seemed unbothered by all of that, probably walking to the united states capital, which was attacked and had to be defended from people who believe what she believed. >> i asked her a couple of

questions, she just smiled and didn't answer them. i don't know if the lawyers told her to smile in response to the questions, but, you know, that was -- yeah, that video you are showing is exactly the way she acted the whole time with us in the hallways. she did give an opening statement, but that dealt directly with her denying discussing any of this with justice thomas. she seems to be most interested in letting the committee no on the record that that was -- denying any discussion at all about challenges to the election, or postelection activities or encouraging the trump legal team, that that had anything to do with clarence thomas. it seemed to be her main point she wanted to stress to the committee before they even got to those questions. i think that's the thing she's most concerned about, is her husband's reputation, and his independence on the supreme court. and that is honestly something

that a lot of people are concerned about in this country, because if you have a compromised supreme court justice, that could be a grave concern for the country. she really try to emphasize that this was nothing at all to do with clarence. >> i guess -- it's interesting that he wasn't involved with her in an effort to carry out a q is kind of -- she was awash in delusions that she remains awash in today, and is one of nine people in the united states supreme court. forgive me if i don't feel better. >> i think in many ways, there is a substance of what she had to say, and luke sort of outline the various areas where he would expect her to be asking questions. but there's also sort of her as an exhibit, where -- i mean, just to put it in your vernacular, she comes off like a whack job. there's no evidence of the

election being stolen. and we are a bunch of adults having this conversation, but there's literally no evidence, and she's married to a justice on the supreme court, where evidence and law is supposed to matter. there sort of these two strands running through this. and obviously on a substantive level, there are just a host of questions you want to know, like what is her evidence of the fraud? in a text to mark meadows, she called biden the biden crime family. what is her evidence of there being crimes committed by -- by the president biden? does she believe that the president is in fact the president? and obviously, all of her conversations with mark meadows and john east. and i think the final area i would be willing to narrate is if she really thinks the john eastman philosophy is right, and that pence had the ability to

defy the election and the votes , and a unilateral determiner of what happened, that she thinks that that's what should happen in the last election, and, harris should get to decipher the entire country to the next president is? >> i will answer that for you. of course she doesn't. you and luke are talking about this, and i'm thinking of stephen ayres. easy insurrectionist the testified before the january 6 select committee and said he is now seen enough to understand it's all a lie. ginny thomas -- she might even wackier than the one who carried out the invasion of the united states capital, went beyond the barricade. she is crazier than he is. what we do about that? >> well, let's just get real. i mean, i heard that the chairman was saying that they weren't accusing her of anything. and obviously, she wasn't on

the barricades on january 6, going into the capital. but if you were behind the scenes, i don't understand why you wouldn't potentially have liability. i think the only reason that people would be treating her with kid gloves is precisely because of who she is married to. but in fact, if she is sitting there doing all of this and fermenting all of these fake theories in order to defy the will of the people, it's hard to see why she wouldn't actually have liability here. >> were out with a new book, and i know it's sending shockwaves throughout a lot of official washington, but what is the analysis that you had about ginny thomas's text, they do sit at this sort of fulcrum of contact with the most senior white house official, mark meadows, contact with the trump family, jared kushner, an

association with the supreme court through marriage, and she said she didn't talk to her husband about it. fine. and contact with louie gohmert, and other republican members who've been identified by some of the justice department officials and others as having been involved in meetings inside the white house. cassidy hutchinson testified in december, talking about ways to overturn the results of a free and fair election. what do you make of the prongs of what we do know is under investigation and scrutiny by doj, that she also touches the fake electors of the eastman plot? >> i think that the justice department might find her someday to be an interesting person to be quick, and i don't think that they have any interest right now in terms of somebody they believe has violated a criminal statute. i would never want to leap to that conclusion, but your point, she does put out a lot of

information about why people were doing what they did. so for the justice department, it's a potential liability. the committee, because she touches so much, she is someways extremely important because the committee is going to have to find a report. and she hopes to create that very full narrative. she does complicate things a little bit, but i thinks she believes the election is still up in the air, and they will have to include all of her thoughts. they won't want her to pick and choose when they write this for work. and so that would be a complicating factor. it won't matter. there is a double-edged sword to having her come in. certainly her saying under oath that she thinks the election is: is complicated. for the committee, and for the justice department, she is a

very interesting person to come into contact. >> that such an interesting point that i hadn't thought of until you just said it. and every other former high- level insider has been used in the opposite manner. bill barr came in and told -- donahue and all of the senior leaders of doj were in there. they were standing against the coup plot at doj. all of trump's lawyers who came in with all of their conditions said, no, we were trying to stop it. even all the republicans back in the states that said rudy had no evidence, they were all on the side of truth. even the insurrectionist that came in have become convinced that david had lied to them. what do they do with him one who still believes in the instruction itself, luke? >> you are referring to the people whose testimony was used publicly. i do believe they have talked to lots of people who probably shared the same views as thomas.

this is a stolen election, they are fighting on the side of truth and justice, and that's why they did the things they did. the committee has now been putting out those statements publicly, but they've been putting out what they believe is the truth. from the very beginning, they did not want to muddy the rodders with their presentations and just dump all the evidence out there. they wanted to lay out for the public exactly what the truth was and not put a bunch of lies out there. now, they have a couple of times . they put out photos and video of donald trump lying, saying things about the election that were true, and then quickly debunked those things. so it's possible they could lose that in that same regard. one thing i do know that the committee was very interested in was a q and non-philosophy. the sort of crazy idea about the election, and how these could make their way to the wife of a supreme court justice, and she can try to spread them around in the halls of power, and i do think they

are quite interested in how those, you know, those widespread conspiracy theories are going across the country to influence so many people, and including some very powerful and influential people. and so while it's true that they mainly view ginny thomas as a witness, they don't think she's a targets, they don't think she was a central planner of the attack or someone who put the attack into motion. they do view her as a very key witness to some of these things we are talking about, especially the spread of this sort of election denial. >> this moment shouldn't be lost on anyone, for the disgraced that it is. the spouse of one of 9 supreme court justices today, inside the united states capital, which is under attack in a historic way, repeated the lies that you will that deadly attack. they are sticking around, we are going to switch gears with you developments in the mar-a- lago case to talk about.

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whether the election was or was not stolen? you have the spouse of a sitting supreme court justice today marching or walking down the hallway where the rioters led to the deaths of five people. four police officers by suicide, one person died at the scene, and said she believes the 2020 election was:. isn't this a crisis for the supreme court? maybe he should assert whether the supreme court thinks president joe biden is the president. >> well, to quote you for a moment ago when i was talking about kamala harris, yeah, that's going to be a great idea, but it not going to happen. he's going to keep his head down. honestly, if a case came up to the supreme court, they would have to, as the 11th circuit court, and ruling, they would use phrases that talk about the former president, referring to donald trump.

so i think that it would come up that way, but i don't think you are going to see anything proactive from this supreme court on something that would distance themselves -- the same ways and, by the way, that you don't have judge roberts leaving on judge thomas -- justice thomas -- with respect to whether he should be sitting on these cases where he should not have been. >> three cases where he decided with donald trump and his arguments. i want to return to your tweet about justice canon. give us the back story and fill us in on what has happened today, andrew. >> yeah. in many ways, people, including myself, should not overreact. because the main issue, which is about classified documents, was removed from judge cannon's purview by the 11th circuit. in other words, they slapped down her decision that

classified documents should be somehow not part of the criminal and best negation right now, or part of a national security investigation. that is all -- she's been reversed, and that has been going forward. so now we are talking about the special master, we reviewing information and the inventory. it's things that are probably a whole lot less of it to the government. what happened was, the special master, who was selected, it was a choice of donald trump's, who was appointed by judge cannon. issued a variety of rulings that had deadlines, and one of the more important ones was that special master was tasked with determining what exactly was taken from mar-a-lago. and so he said that the government had to file an affidavit setting out ackley what was taken, and then he gave the -- he gave donald trump approximately two weeks to say whether that was a

complete list, or in that sense, whether anything was planted. so that was his trying to carry out her order that there should be a complete inventory that everyone agreed on. well, donald trump appealed that back to judge cannon, and she basically said, that is not something i required. and so i'm not going to impose it. i am overruling the special master, and that donald trump should actually have to say anything. at least for now. and she left open the possibility that it could be required later, but certainly isn't requiring now. and i would predict, is never going to require it of donald trump. he basically -- out of court, he can say things were planted, but he can't be required in court to say, are you saying that here in court? so it really relieved him of the biggest downside of his having brought this lawsuit, which is -- it's a place where

fact and law matter. >> katie, it's also -- canon has done exactly what trumps lawyers have argued should be done in a rather whiny response to his order. i mean, how does the doj deal with this judge? >> they have to follow court orders, so the way they are dealing with it is they're taking it day by day, and they are going to comply with the court. they will appear where and when they think appropriate. in the meantime, they're going to continue with the investigation. they will look at the evidence they have before them, they will look at the classified documents they created, it will work with the intelligence community to figure out how they had these documents at mar-a- lago, and they will have to decide whether or not to bring charges. >> what is the practical effect of these developments? >> the practical effect is that

donald trump gets to continue lying publicly by claiming that things were planted. but in a court of law, where a judge had said i need to know whether you are saying that are not, and gave a deadline that he has now relieved of that obligation. i really think the practical implication is that he is not being required to actually be candid in a court of law. but in terms of the criminal case, i think it will have no effect in terms of that proceeding, and in terms of the national security review. i think will have no effect. >> with donald trump being allowed to lie in public and on conservative media as a grave effect. just look at the delusional lives of the supreme court justice. katie benner, andrew weissman, thank you so much for spending time with us on these stories. we are so grateful. when we come back, a update on

the trial of 50 keepers of the most serious charges yet. will be back after break. don't go anywhere. n't go anywh.

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>> an update to now and the trial of oath keepers founder 11 and four other members of the right-wing militia group. they are facing the most serious charges that have been filed to date. charges of sedition and conspiracy. jury selection has been concluded and jury selection has been chosen in opening

arguments likely begin monday. joining us is ryan riley. this was a dramatic process for the jury selection, take us inside. >> a little bit of a grind you could you have to have so many defendants and alternatives. a total of 16 jurors was qualified but the judge held a couple back and said to come back monday in case anyone drops out over the weekend. people was questioned about their history, their personal history in terms of belief about january 6 and the personal feelings of it and the oath keepers. it is always interesting in these jury selection processes because you get such a cross- section, and diversity is reflected in the sea where people are attuned and have strong connections to the capital.

you don't hear that much information and there just going about their daily life. they didn't necessarily know the details about the oath keepers or various other groups that have been charged in connection with the capital attack. now officially we will start this process and this trial could go five weeks and it will be a very complex one involving some complicated issues in the charge of sedition and conspiracy. it really should be something to watch, and certainly i think we will find out more about the connection between the oath keepers and some of the trump folks in terms of the overlap between those two groups. we are expecting testimony from some former oath keepers who have already pleaded guilty. one thing i'm looking for is if we are expecting testimony from one old keeper when he said he was in the room with stewart

rhodes on the night of january 6 when he tried to talk directly with donald trump. he urged donald trump to call on groups like the militia to step in to help donald trump retain power. >> it is amazing how it ties back to him and what they thought they was doing. i thought it was particularly telling, at least more than one of the potential jurors was afraid and scared for their own security if identify. how much of a factor is that and what was those exchanges light? >> i think is a factor because there's so much media attention. this is that your typical jury process. there is a lot of folks in the room, and a lot of these pieces are high profile but i don't think they are as much of a threat as when the two don was being tried. you and i worried that supporters will necessarily track you down. but the oath keepers is a large

organization with a lot of people across the country with a special sort of set of skills. a lot our military and former law enforcement and some current law enforcement. that certainly is something to view a little bit more about the oath keepers that they may be somewhat concerned about. overall in the trial of i have watched so far i have been impressed by the questions that have been asked, and they go into rhe detail and take the job seriously. that is something i think we will see in this case as well. >> we are lucky that you are covering this for us and thank you so much for joining us today. a quick break for us and we will be right back. back. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

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>> thank you so much for inviting us into your homes during these extraordinary and tragic times. the beach start right now. just a little bit of news for you today my friend. >> a very busy and sad day coming out of florida. welcome to the beat. catastrophic destruction and reports of substantial loss of life. president biden said it could be the deadliest hurricane in the history of florida. at least nine confirmed totality so far and that number is expected to grow. this is what hurricane ian did across florida. governor ron desantis called it is short and we are awaiting a news conference at this hour. the fourth most powerful hurricane to hit the state ever. search and rescue teams are on the