>> after the verdict, the story was very much left unsettled. tonight on the mehdi hasan's show, jimmy thomas sits down with the january six committee. but was her testimony worth waiting for? and what about? terrence plus, is letting her putin planning a nuclear slate against ukraine i will speak to -- with the toughest sanctions against russia. what does he think about the atomic threat? and why the american right-wing is racing to embrace italy's new prime minister and why many are not taking her seriously enough. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening. i am mehdi hasan. donald trump held a rally in michigan and it went pretty

much as you might expect. the former president -- touched on many of his greatest hits. he wanted to execute a drug dealers. he praised foreign dictators. and he pushed the big election lie. there is a new addition to his routine. the donald also singled out one woman in particular for a shout out, for praise. take a listen. >> i would like to thank a great woman named ginni thomas. do you know ginni thomas? she is a great woman. the wife of a great man, justice clarence thomas. her courage and strength -- she still believes the 2020 election was stolen. she didn't say, oh well, i would like not to get involved. of course it was a wonderful election. it was a rigged and stolen election. she did not will thunder pressure like so many others that are weak people and stupid people. >> you bet we know ginni

thomas. let us count the ways. the conservative political capitalist -- appeared on a hill on thursday. that was voluntary and not under oath -- to speak with her because of her involvement with the trump efforts to overturn the 2022 presidential election. let that sink in for a moment. the wife of a sitting supreme court justice had to be questioned by the house committee investigating the january 6th insurrection. she had to be questioned because she herself was at the stop the steal rally in washington d. c. on january the 6th. she did not continue on to the capitol that afternoon. she had already gone home. because she said, she was too cold. how about you at home because she believes in an orderly and peaceful transfer of power? no. and an early morning facebook post on january the 6th, she also sent a message of support anti trump supporters who had gathered in d. c. -- there were other ways that you try to overthrow joe biden's victory. the dozens of text she sent to mark meadows in the weeks after the election, repeatedly pressing him to overturn the results -- in one of the text, she even

pushed a qanon conspiracy saying that, -- we're being sent to barges off of guantánamo bay to face military trials for sedition. yeah. it's easy to dismiss such conspiracies as just plain crazy. but this time last sunday, former republican congressman and 16 committee staff member -- was explaining to 60 minutes the value of the mark meadows text messages, including those with ginni thomas. have a listen. >> the text messages show you an administration that was completely eaten up with a digital virus called qanon and conspiracy theories. and apocalyptic messianic, buffoon early. you can look at the text messages as a roadmap. but it is also a look into the psyche of the republican party today. >> apocalyptic, messianic

buffoon worry. he said it, not me. we are in great danger of having such people have control over all three branches of the u.s. government before you know it, by any means necessary. in addition to her sex -- text messages she sent 20 messages to arizona -- a clean slate of electors. and you stand strong in the face of political and media pressure. one of them went to shauna -- bullock, whose husband clint, so it's on the arizona supreme court and is a close friend and former colleague of supreme court justice clarence thomas. so, don't try to tell me there is some sort of chinese wall between justice thomas and his wife. that they have nothing to do with each other on this story. as jenny claimed in her opening statement to the 16 committee. they refer to each other at each other's best friends. so how exactly was she returning to when she texted mark meadows this reply, saying

thank you, needed that. this plus a conversation with my best friend just now. i will try to keep holding on. america is worth it. perhaps the committee members asked her about that. although, i remind you, she was not under oath. so, can we expect her much awaited testimony on her alleged role in the to? to make an appearance on the next and final -- despite confirming that the wife of a supreme court justice confirmed -- was stolen, the chairman, benny thompson, said that some of thomas's testimony could be incorporated into the race scheduled hearing if there is something of merit. if there is something of merit? if? another january the six committee members reveal they're not sure of ginni thomas played a major role in efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

one described her position as deranged. lawmakers are uncertain if they will feature any of her final testimony in the hearing. you cannot believe both that and this. take a listen to 16 committee member jamie raskin talking to my colleague ali velshi. >> she is saying that she still believes that donald trump won the election and that joe biden 's victory is based on fraud. that is a remarkable thing for anybody to say, much less someone who is married to a supreme court justice, who theoretically bases their whole work on the rule of law. >> yeah. but what are you planning to do about it? major role, mineral? she should not have at any role. it is now five weeks until a midterm election against a party that makes mountains out of molehills. but her emails! hunter biden's laptop! there is concrete and outrageous evidence here of the wife of a sitting supreme court justice helping to plot overthrow the results of a presidential election.

and the democrats seem to be giving her a pass, caving in the face of it. a new supreme court term starts tomorrow and once again, the stakes are enormously high. clarence thomas and his fellow conservatives in the trump constructed supermajority, are set to dominate on issues like the affirmative action, voting rights, religion, gay rights, free speech. clarence thomas will be crucial in all of that. he has failed to recuse himself on a case ever. in fact, he is ruled on 16 related and election related cases back when we did not even know of his wife's involvement in all of that. he did not tell us. how could anyone trust him? how could he have any credibility left? ginni thomas matters because this is not just about her. it is about clarence thomas. it is about the supreme court. it is about democracy and above all else, it is about accountability. joining me now -- our daily beast columnist and author of the book a back to where you came from. also with us -- dean, host of the dean show on

sirius xm and then msnbc daily columnist. thank you both for joining me. let me start with you. why aren't democrats making more of this ginni thomas issue? why haven't they made more of this issue? why do they always bring a butter knife to a gun fight with the gop? >> weakness. they have chosen civility over law and order and accountability. it's good to be an extremist wife of a right-wing conservative judge as she works the money and he works the courts. and if the shoe is on the other, foot we know what would've happened. there would've been subpoenas and hearings and nonstop 24/7 clamoring. as soon as we found out those texts that she sent to mark meadows, the qanon texts -- which is a national domestic terrorist threat, she believes in that. she also sent texts and emails to lawmakers in arizona and also in wisconsin, begging them to overturn the election. and we also know that she hosted john eastman, the right-wing attorney, who is promoting the coup of illegal -- this is a couple that is going to get away with it. she is all smiles because she realizes nothing will happen to

her. they are running out of time. now it is up to the doj to show the american people that no one is above the law, even jenny and clarence thomas. but i fear nothing will happen. >> committee chair bennie thompson compared -- she still believes the 2020 election was stolen. and he said, some of her testimony could be incorporated into the rescheduled hearing if there is something of merit. there is been some reporting that liz cheney, the vice chair of the committee, it is close to the thomas's. do you think that played a role in not subpoenaing her and not putting her under oath and not bringing her forward much earlier? >> possibly. can i just say it is great to be on this power our. i'm glad to be a part of this right here. second of all, you can't lie to congress if you're under oath or not. some people know -- you can't lie to congress. that is a felony. so, she still faces peril if she lies. second, the idea that she

sticks to a law. she is a lawyer. she understands that the right you go. -- i now know the election was -- the question is, when did you know? that how did you know that? and which he sending text messages during the time she knew it was a lie? -- so, she is a lawyer. justin -- justice thomas, he gutted the voting rights act in shelby county and then -- he is doing his part in his tandem here to undermine our democracy. it's not just one of the other. they are working together and bringing our democracy down. i would trade 30th her for one donald trump. >> waj, conservatives want us to believe that joe biden knew of every business move that's son was making, and ukraine are trying to. they also want to believe that this conservative power couple, so similar in their politics, so close to each other, going to the trump rally angry -- and the other one doesn't have

a clue, is totally in the dark. that does not seem realistic to me. i'm a married man. it does not seem realistic to me. >> i am glad you mentioned that they refer to each other repeatedly as best friends at also in the texts, who is her best friend? it is her husband. this conservative court, the one moment when they went 8 to 1, was the order in which they forced trump to turn over the documents, related to january 6th. who is the one vote that said no? who is the one vote that's that no? clarence thomas. >> indeed. last quick question to you before we run out of time. new term beginning for the supreme court. confidence in the court and a new low, 40% approval of the supreme court. 47% for the judiciary as a whole. this is open goal for the democrats to take on the supreme court, this partisan supreme court, to try to reform and expand it, hold clarence thomas to account. -- >> absolutely.

and part of this justice thomas being on the court while his wife is out there trying to undermine the election, further erodes confidence in our court and that is really scary because the right does not want -- they are rushing in fascism, getting rid of the institutional guardrails. if we give up on the left, on the courts, it is done. there is no one left to fend again. we need legislation to get judges to recuse themselves by law, mandated. they should at least do that. >> i have kicked off the show so many times with a discussion about supreme court to try to remind the viewers how crucial it is that democrats deal with the court. both of you, please stick around. much more to discuss with both of you later in the show. but coming up next, i will speak with senator chris van hollen about volodymyr putin threats of nuclear war. yeah, we have to worry about to. and the upcoming term elections. stick around for that conversation.

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and democrats are facing challenges on multiple fronts. there is the economy, the supreme court, abortion, threats to democracy, gas prices, and now president biden also needs to worry about russia potentially launching a nuclear attack against ukraine. as of 2022 could not get any worse. these concerns were raised after vladimir putin delivered an insane speech on friday, proclaiming he was annexing for occupied parts of ukraine, amid putin's anti west rhetoric, the most alarming moment came when he said, just by the by, he just states they started the president of using nuclear weapons. he cited hiroshima and nagasaki during world war ii, nearly 80 years ago. vladimir putin's speech has caused officials in washington

to game out scenarios on how to respond if russia does, god forbid, decide to use what is called a tactical nuclear weapon in ukraine. and while u.s. intel believes it's unlikely putin at this point will use nuclear weapons, ukrainian intelligence who is saying just the opposite. warning the risk is actually very high, they say, so how is washington d. c. responding to putin's alarming and deranged threats? i spoke earlier with a senator chris van hollen, democrats of maryland, who sits on the senate foreign affairs committee and has been pushing for a bipartisan amendment to file more sanctions against russia. >> senator chris van hollen, thank you for coming on the show. let's start with ukraine. you sit on the senate foreign relations and banking committee. you have been leading the charge to impose tougher sanctions on russia over ukraine. how worried are you that a besieged, isolated putin with his back to the wall, suffering multiple defeats on the battleground, decides to use tactical nuclear weapons in ukraine? --

as he implied in that bunker speech last week. two u.s. officials are saying it is unlikely he uses nuclear weapons. but ukraine's chief says it is very high risk. >> look, anytime a leader threatens the use or hints at using nuclear weapons, we need to take it seriously and i know that the biden administration has communicated very clearly what the consequences of that would be. but i don't think it means that we should let up, that we should let up in helping ukraine both with weapons and the congress just passed the legislation, the continuing resolution that provides 15 billion dollars there. and i do think we need to close one of the bigger holes and the sanctions, which deals with all the money putin's making from the profits of oil sales. i support this idea of putting a price cap on those sales. i think it needs to be backed up with a secondary sanctions. >> just briefly, if u.s. officials are saying unlikely, but ukrainian intelligence saying high-risk, where do you stand on that? what do you lay in towards and

those two scenarios? >> i think the u.s. officials are correct in saying there is no current evidence, material evidence, that putin is wanting to do it, but putin has made, as you say, in his speech, he alluded to that possibility. he has done that before. i think he recognizes that nato's united and his resolve to continue to remain together. i think anytime a leader, even one that is giving a crazy speech, that is something that we should take seriously. >> senator, i also want to get your take on what we were discussing before the break. clearance and ginni thomas? regardless of what she saw the -- doesn't ginni thomas's involvement in the trump coup attempt, no matter how allegedly minimal, mean justice clarence thomas should at least have to recuse himself from all election related cases?

and at most, be impeached if he continues to refuse to do so? what credibility does justice thomas have left? >> well, i do believe he needs to recuse himself. his wife continues to spout the big lie. we know that justice thomas was the lone dissenting voice and the supreme court decision to require trump to turn over some documents to the january six committee. so, he should be recusing himself, given that very close connection. i should also say that the supreme court as a whole needs to be held to the same ethical standards as all the lower federal courts. we do have legislation, i'm a co-sponsor of legislation to do it. it's crazy that they've had some to themselves. >> it is crazy and a lot of people don't realize that. senator, you are the head of the dscc. in order for your party to hold

on, should it be prioritizing the 16 investigation, the gop's war on our democracy, on voting rights, on abortion rights, semi fascism, to quote the president? or should it be focused on, quote unquote, kitchen tables or -- gas prices, -- >> i do think this is a place where it can be a one-two punch. i do think we need to point out to the american people some of the good things we have done. we finally gave medicare the power to reduce the cost of prescription drugs, to say that nobody should be charged over -- and republicans voted against that. they voted against the american rescue plan to provide direct relief to the country at a time when we are in great need.

we need to point out. we also need to point out the extremists and you just sort of presented that list, which is everything from continuing to buy into the big lie to continuing to be beholden to donald trump. and to cheer on the supreme court's decision to rip away reconstructive -- lengthy ground legislation to impose a federal, national ban effectively on abortion -- i really do think it is a one-two punch when it comes to the upcoming elections. >> last question, senator. you've been outspoken on the killing of palestinian journalist -- a killing which multiple investigations say was not just carried out with the israelis, but with intention, say a lot of investigators. why has the u.s. government not done its own investigation? why has the biden ministration accepted that it was an accident? >> i do think that this is a dereliction of duty. secretary blinken early on said that we should have an independent investigation, but the biden administration has retreated from that position. we are continuing to call on the biden administration to

have an independent investigation, a group of us, senator leahy myself, and others, something secretary of state a letter back in july with a series of questions to be answered about the facts, including wanting to get this report that was done by the u. s. coordinator on the ground, which was not an investigation, but simply threw together some of the other conclusions. we will keep pushing on this. we cannot allow this to be swept under the rug. as you, say they are two conflicting stories here. a lot of independent analysis saying that she was not killed in any kind of exchange of fire with palestinian militants. only the idf is saying that. so, we do need to get to the bottom of this to protect an american citizen or protect american citizens going forward and to protect journalists. we rely on them to get us the facts. >> i appreciate you pushing on this if you. senator chris van hollen, thank you for coming on the show.

>> i appreciate you pushing on this if you. senator chris van hollen, thank you for coming on the show. >> still to come, a live update from florida on the recovery efforts after hurricane ian. but first, richard louis is here with other headlines. hello, richard. >> good evening to you. three people are dead after a small plane crashed into a northern minnesota house. people say -- the cause of the crash is under investigation. two people were inside the home, but were unharmed. tomorrow, justice ketanji brown jackson will hear her first arguments as a u.s. supreme court begins a new term monday. the court is set to rule on disputes regarding affirmative action, voting, first amendment, and lgbtq rights. and old europe cheese, issued a voluntary recall of debris and

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the residents that remained. now, fort myers beach is one of the places that was hit the hardest. a lot of images we have seen on television, aerial images of before and after, that is fort myers beach. a lot of structures were destroyed. others are still standing. after the storm, some people chose to remain and the days after the storm, things got worse and worse. as of yesterday afternoon, authorities said there was a new mandatory evacuation for everyone in that area. as they went building to building, trying to find survivors people who needed help, they have also been evacuating many people who have remained for a few days. for some of us who have remained on the other side of the bridge, there is essentially a bridge that connects the area we are into the island where a lot of these residents are being evacuated. we're trying to understand what is happening on that island. most of the media has been kept outside. some have been able to enter,

escorted by authorities. we spoke to an evacuated woman today. this is what she had to say. >> these last three days, what has it been like? >> it has been scrounging around for whatever food we can get. we have had people bring us things, trying to find close to where. we have no shoes, nobody could get a hold of us. we couldn't get a hold of anyone else. it was just -- you felt like you were the only person in the world. >> a lot of people like this woman, she said, and initially thought they could stay for a few more days until they figure things out, but conditions just worsened. and now, authorities continue without search and rescue. in fact, we have not seen ambulances -- i don't know if you can see the lights.

there is one driving next to us. all day long, ambulances go in and out. national guard vehicles are helping with the evacuation of these residents in one of the hardest hit areas here in fort myers beach. >> absolutely horrific. stay safe. thank you so much for your reporting. >> next, republican leaders are praising the neo-fascist soon to be next italian prime minister. but are we in the liberal media giving her a pass as well? but i commentary is next. and don't forget, you can listen to the mehdi hasan show free wherever you get your podcasts. peaceful state. full plate. wait, are you my blind date? dancing crew. trip for two. nail the final interview. buy or lease? masterpiece. inside joke. artichoke. game with doug. brand new mug. come here, kid. gimme a hug. the more you want to do, the more we want to do. boosters designed for covid-19 variants are now available.

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elections, giorgia meloni, leader of the brothers of italy party, its prime to be the next prime minister. republicans have been falling over themselves to congratulate her on her win. and identify themselves with a neo-shot fascists. mike pompeo and republican senator tom cotton boast congratulated her as a fellow

conservative. and when an old speech of hers, decrying speculate later's, financial speculators, i think we know who she is referring to. it went viral in conservative circles. ted cruz tweeted, a spectacular! even though his own life is a managing director of what some would say is the grand champion of actual financial speculators, goldman sachs. my favorite right-wing tweet about giorgia meloni was a -- this one, from an employee at breitbart, who said you are for the patriarchy if you dare criticize italy's first female prime minister. and also tweeting,, calling her mussolini just because she is italian's racist. to which i responded, how about comparing her to miscellany because she has praised mussolini, color and -- currently echoes mussolini, and runs a party that includes muscling his errors, and is a

member of the italian movement which was formed by mussolini. how about that? by the way, did you see how i managed to squeeze all that relevant biographical information about giorgia meloni into 140 characters? because a lot of mainstream media pieces running into the hundreds or thousands of words weren't able to do that, sadly. and i'll be honest. i expected the republican right to embrace her. they are at best, to quote the president, semi fascist themselves these days. what has been so depressing is just so much of the, quote unquote, liberal media, the mainstream media, the -- giving her a pass or playing down her and her party's fascist roots, focusing more on the fact that she is female, and less on the fact that she is a fascist. that has been deeply depressing to see. there was the washington post headline. georgia maloney could become italy's first female prime minister. here is what to know. here is what you would not know from that headline. you would not know that she has ties to fascism. but hey, she's female! there was the headline in the financial times.

we can pull that up as well. likely victory for italian right portends risks, but no lurch into extremism. don't worry! no lurch to extremism! even though they just elected card carrying extremists. but still, hers is a heartwarming tale, isn't it? i kid you not. this was the tweet from politico europe. let's pull it up. in july 1992, a 15 year old school girl rang the doorbell on a local branch of the youth front, a far-right movement in rome, and asked to be let in. this weekend, that same school girl could become italy's next prime minister. wow. forget the fascism! forget the fascism! focus on the inspiration there. then, there was this op-ed in the new york times. we giorgia meloni is extreme, but she is no tyrant. well, that's all right then! at least is not a tyrant! there is this op-ed in the atlantic that argue that the most immediate concern about italy's new government isn't any threat to the country's democratic institutions, still less a return to fascism. did you notice a trend yet? it is not as bad as you think. this isn't really fascism.

stop the hyperbole and hysteria. it will all be fine. in fact, i couldn't help but think that i had seen these hot takes before. remember the washington post op-ed on the 2016 u.s. presidential election with this headline? come down. we will be fine who matter who wins. remember the new york times op-ed with this headline, the month before the 2020 presidential election? there will be no trump to. in fact, i couldn't help but think that i had seen these hot takes before. remember the washington post op-ed on the 2016 u.s. presidential election with this headline? come down. we will be fine who matter who wins. remember the new york times op-ed with this headline, the month before the 2020 presidential election? there will be no trump to. look, i have a humble suggestion for many of my colleagues and the, quote unquote, liberal media. how about in the year 2022, we stop playing down, minimizing, whitewashing people who literally say or do fascist things? people who want to overturn elections and banned muslims.

people who, in the case of italy's next prime minister, -- while running a political party that has a direct connection -- can we try doing that? please? after the break, we will discuss all of this and more with my all-star panel. do not go away.

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become italy's prime minister assuring the first government since the mussolini government. congratulations italy. that election is reigniting authoritarianism both here and in the u.s.. i've got my panel with me back with me to discuss. also joining a panel, and award-winning foreign policy journalist who used to -- thank you all for joining me. let me start with you. you know italian politics better than most. you know giorgia meloni herself. is this fascism? is this a neo-fascist authoritarian party that is about to take power? >> absolutely. it is a new fascist, who was an activist, a militant in the neo-fascist group when she was only 15. she never changed since then. she was elected a week ago and she is already threatening to sue journalists, critics. i mean, i debated her on multiple occasions. she denies --

that fascism exists, but she never disavowed her fascist base. her brother in law, who happen to be also a party member, her right hand, also in charge of the reforms, built, financed mazda liam's and crips to fascist generals who committed war crimes, a who committed atrocity. her party celebrates generals who committed massive deaths in italy. people died in italy because fascist bombs the countries from the 70s on. they covered up and they celebrated that. she endorsed extremist policies. she thinks that the lgbt community, immigrants, minorities, are a threat to traditional identity. she calls herself christian. that means anybody who does not -- practice christiane it is somehow is a threat. >> following her election, you tweeted about a video that she shared back in august, which appeared to show a woman being attacked, raped even, by an asylum seeker. gruesome. you also pointed out that her father was a convicted drug

trafficker. i think you are making the point that people should not be conflated with other people. she responded to that with a post on facebook, appearing to threaten a lawsuit with you. do you see this as her trying to silence journalistic criticism? >> absolutely. this is typical fascist politics. she has been trying her people, the founder of her party, -- but also her brother in law, on multiple occasions, threatened me with lawsuits, but also other journalists, who currently are living under police protection. the person who broke the stories about her family financing these mausoleum's to a fascist general, -- is paolo, he lives under police protection. he was trying to be sued under multiple occasions. but in my case, the only black,

the only muslim voice on italian television, she singled him out. i am not the person that broke the story about her father. i simply suggested that nobody should generalize. her own father was a drug trafficker. she is not to blame. but she is blaming and demonizing and criminalizing all immigrants. she used me as an example to silence everybody else. >> i should point out that she and her party publicly, officially disavow fascism, even though she is on record praising italian fascist from the mussolini period and she has sprouted and of -- great replacement theory is very popular in america thanks to tucker carlson and fox. let's talk about the warm embrace that she has received from conservatives here. what does that say about the gop? >> fascists flock together. the only difference between male fascists and her is lipstick. she wears pastel colors, she wears makers, she smiles. she's a mother. and she is a fascist.

it's a concept called gender washing. when you use women to soften the image of an authoritarian. but remove it and it is the same. there is a reason why steve bannon praises her. there is a reason why cpac invited her to speak in 2022. they also invited viktor orban, who has praised her. also ted cruz praised her. tucker carlson, keri lake who's running for governor of arizona, praised her and said she saying exactly what i want to say. this is a right-wing alliance. i also want to remind people that as a 19 year old, youth activist, she praised mussolini. she said he was a good politician. anything he did good he did good for italy. like aligning with the not? seas she has never disavowed mussolini. what do you think she is? fascist. >> a lot of people watching this will think, liberals, they call everyone a fascist. even though we're talking about someone who specifically runs a party descended from the

post-fascist party of 1946. i would say that some in our own industry, as i pointed out in my commentary before the break, they also want to play down the f-word. there's a lot of, let's calm down, she's not so bad. i feel like it's 2016 all over again. >> very much so. and i don't know what it is. you talk to these people in the media every day. what is going on in their minds that they feel like they have to whitewash it? or boat size it. , famously said, there are not two sides to every story. i wish more of the media would take that to heart. i remember writing an article a few weeks after the election, saying that donald trump was plotting a coup. i had pushback. people saying, you are outrageous! how dare you say that? and more recent times, -- these terms, fascist. i think part of -- like what you did in your tweet, we need to explain what that means. people think it is like we are doing a mirror of -- the right. saying that they're fascists. we have to explain it. it is an enemy of democracy.

it is embracing violence. it is about getting people against each other. but it is the enemy of democracy. nothing else to take away from the enemy of democracy. that is fascism. >> well said. this idea that you are the enemy of democracy, the enemy of women's rights, the enemy of lgbtq communities. you say that in italy. you see that in the u.s.. there are commonalities. and then you see iranian women protesting against their own authoritarian anti democratic government and you wonder, how much credibility do some people in the west have to be standing with those iranian women, given what is happening in our own country? look at authoritarianism globally and i wonder, we need to fight it every, where do we not? >> absolutely. but also, we need to understand this is a global movement. we go back to giorgia meloni. in 2018, she said, on video, i repeat, on video, that she actually supports the has below

militias. she supports -- assad, she supports putin. because somehow they are defending christiane eddy and syria. this is what she said. and that context, she also said she adores torture because it's a good tool for law enforcement so they can defend themselves. this is what she says. so when there are whitewashing her international media, they are actually -- that is what secrets the most. legitimacy. that is what she wants. she wants to be normalized. the way that fascism groups and globally and takes over is by being normalized. by making it socially acceptable. and it is dangerous. this woman is actually the only leader of a party in italy who is a woman who voted against women's rights. especially equal pay. >> italy, depressing news from the last week and the state of democracy in the west. and then you look at iran, where iranian women are taking to the streets and showing the world how it is done in terms of standing up for freedom.

>> if you stand up for women, you need to stand up for women in iran. you need to stand up for dignity. you need to stand up for women in america -- you are standing up for women's rights, thanks to the white ring magnets extremists. and you have to stand up for women in europe who choose on their own to where the hug job, and not scapegoat them as well to the left and right parties have done. you need to stand up for women all across the world. you need to stand up for them equally and they need male allies right now. >> thank you all for a fascinating discussion. appreciate it. coming up at the top of the hour with damon, secretary of state janet griswold. her warning as the gop intimidation efforts expand nationwide. that's tonight at nine eastern, right here on msnbc. i will be back in a moment with a man himself. i want to talk to him about lizzo and the flute. don't go away. this is the moment.

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classical flutists is invited by another prominent black woman, the library of congress, to play a 200 year old crystal flute, once owned by a founding father, conservatives have a collective breakdown. i'm sure you saw that they attacked lizzo, for quote, desecrating and mocking american history. because she dared to play the flute at her concert in d.c. on tuesday night. it seems to me, as you and i have discussed right here in recent weeks, that for conservative media stars in america today, a black woman cannot be cast as a queen on board of the rings. cannot be the little mermaid, and cannot play james madison's flute. a flute none of them had ever heard of until five days ago. >> i completely agree with you. first of all, this has nothing to do with the flute, like you said. i don't think anyone in america even knew james madison had a flute. it is about who gets to tell and share in america's history and the truth, as some have pointed out, is that this is about a proud, talented black

musicians showcasing to her audience and the world a moment of her happiness and joy that just trigger the right-wing. the very same right-wing that loves to call everyone on the left snowflakes and claim they get triggered by the smallest of things. just imagine what kind of person you need to be, how insecure you must be, to have this epic meltdown because lizzo played a former slave owners flute. you want to talk about really desecrating american history? talk about the day donald trump put his tiny hand on abraham lincoln's bible and support to defend the american constitution. by the way, a constitution he spent four years shredding and trying to overthrow? that in my opinion is what truly defiles american history. >> yes. very well said. i'm glad you mentioned the slave owning. james madison was a great man, a great political figure in many ways, but he also owned 36 slaves at the time of his death, who he chose not to free either in his lifetime or via his will. so yes, there is some delicious

irony to see a proud black woman playing his crystal flute. all the centuries later. >> absolutely. >> >> enjoy the rest of your evening. and good evening to you at home. red scare republicans have regrouped from their 2020 losses and they are rigging the game to make sure you they never lose again. plus, racist violent meltdown, trump's attacks are putting lives in danger and exporting extremism, how far-right parties abroad have influence the beliefs of radicals right here at home. i am ayman mohyeldin. let's get started. we have a lot to get to tonight, but we begin this hour with an update on the aftermath of hurricane ian. floridians are starting the cleanup process as the death toll continues to steadily rise, now up to 87. >> we directed everyone to wear the body was