irony to see a proud black woman playing his crystal flute. all the centuries later. >> absolutely. >> >> enjoy the rest of your evening. and good evening to you at home. red scare republicans have regrouped from their 2020 losses and they are rigging the game to make sure you they never lose again. plus, racist violent meltdown, trump's attacks are putting lives in danger and exporting extremism, how far-right parties abroad have influence the beliefs of radicals right here at home. i am ayman mohyeldin. let's get started. we have a lot to get to tonight, but we begin this hour with an update on the aftermath of hurricane ian. floridians are starting the cleanup process as the death toll continues to steadily rise, now up to 87. >> we directed everyone to wear the body was and then, when

they were just about ready to take her out, they said, you don't want to see this. >> she had been floating for three days. >> even to describe that, what does that feel like? >> it is horrible and i am an ex nurse. i don't want to see that. >> all right. let's cross over now to fort myers beach, where we are finding -- bring us up to speed on the latest. it is nighttime there. do these rescue and search efforts continue in the night even though there are challenges of working in the dark. no electricity and the perhaps -- the weather may not be cooperating. what is going on there? >> those search and rescue efforts are taking place 24 hours a day. we have been speaking with authorities who say they have people there during the day and at night. in fact, they have shared videos on social media, the sheriff's department, where you can see officers using lights.

of course, it's not the same to do this at night as it is during the day. but the efforts do not stop. unfortunately, today, a number of people that died -- every day they are discovering more bodies. some of those being discovered here in fort myers beach. they continue with those efforts. that area has been blocked off. they're being very careful with who is allowed in there. there is a mandatory evacuation order for fort myers beach. that area on the island -- initially, they had allowed residents to go back and you find some of whatever belongings were still okay in their house. some were even staying there. but then they did declared this mandatory evacuation. they're focusing on search and rescue and evacuating the people that have remained on the island. now, meanwhile, there is a lot of other communities nearby communities, that flooded completely. people lost everything inside their homes. so, this morning we went around and we talk to some of the people in those communities to see what it is like. many of them just clearing the island from inside their house and we are also hearing the

stories of how some of them survived the storm. here is part of a conversation we had with a man who said he had to hide or he had to climb inside the attic of his home in order to avoid drowning. listen to this. >> when the water got up to here, they used a table to stand up and they went in the attic. some of them slept up there. [speaking spanish] >> some spent the night up their. >> [speaking spanish] >> [speaking spanish] >> they spent almost a full day out there. eight of them went in the attic and then when the water finally went away, they were sleeping on top of the refrigerator or anything that they could because everything else was wet. >> so, authorities here are focusing of course on the search and rescue, restoring power to southwest florida. they brought a lot of food and a lot of water. but then, people like the man we just heard from, don't

really know what is next. he worked in the service industry on one of the islands. he says he no longer has a job. he can't stay in his house. everything was ruined inside. he doesn't have a lot of money saved. he doesn't know what the next step this. a lot of these communities that live in houses that weren't destroyed, but were flooded, so that essentially ruined everything that they owned, they want to know what is the next step for them because they can't stay there, so they don't know if they can go somewhere to get to more help. they think that authorities will be focusing on these communities to offer some type of guidance and help as they move forward and try to start from scratch with what they have. >> a colossal effort underway indeed. -- thank you as always, my friend. stay safe. turning now to tonight's other top story. republicans have learned their lesson. no. not the good kind of lesson learning. let me explain this for you

here in just a second. in 2020, we also, what republicans failed. after losing the popular vote and the electoral college, the gop try to overturn the election results through illegal and fraudulent means. that failed. two years later, they have learned from those mistakes and they are coming back with a vengeance. since those failed efforts to overturn the election, the republican party, both at the legislative level and the activists level, have regrouped and built this anti-democratic infrastructure and coalition that they lacked the last time. we are not talking about rudy giuliani ranting outside a landscaping company anymore. no. conservative legal scholars and right-wing knots, they are coming together and counting on the new conservative super majority in the supreme court to do the heavy lifting for them. as we discussed last night on the show, the court is about to hear a consequential case. --

if endorsed by the justices, it would allow republican-led state legislatures unfettered ability to gerrymander, cutback early voting hours, make other changes to election processes and their states, all of that without any kind of judicial oversight. another state on the docket -- back at a lemonade one of the few remaining station -- against rigged legislative maps. if the conservative supreme court doesn't go along with the psychotic legal fantasies, right-wing activist groups have laid down of their infrastructure changes. that will ensure that americans will not have their voices heard. at least 11 states -- complaints are emerging about conservative canvassing groups going to adore -- and some election officials and even the justice department. in washington state, those complaints include canvassers becoming hostile, telling

voters they work for election offices and even just playing fake badges. the washington secretary of state has called it what it is, voter intimidation. other activists groups are working to toss out tens of thousands of voter registrations and ballots and battleground states, increasing the chances that overburden affection -- election officials could actually make mistakes that disenfranchise the voters. according to the associated press, some of these activists are now signing up to help administer elections for the first time. that would further endanger the very democratic process. look, i need to be clear about this, danger in this process is real. republicans almost got what they wanted back in 2020. they might be sore losers, but they are not dumb losers. given another chance to destroy our democracy, they will not make the same mistake again. joining me now is colorado secretary of state -- she is the chair -- madam secretary, thank you so

much for joining me. do you agree with that overall thesis that i just laid out that republicans are really finding their strategies to disenfranchise voters? they are relying on a supreme court with a superconservative majority and they are working for state legislatures and running for offices that could ultimately change the very democratic processes of this country? >> first off, thank you for having me on. including to talk about this really heavy topic, that democracy is in danger. and we are seeing a coordinated effort to destabilize american elections and you outlined a few of the things going on. but we are also seeing voter suppression laws being passed across the nation, over 34 voters oppression laws were passed last year. we are seeing attempts to destabilized elections through threats to election workers and also through fake attacks and

son officially -- embracing conspiracies and becoming security threats themselves. and you touched on it. there are 11 big lie candidates for secretary of state now running to oversee the nation's infrastructure. this is code red for american democracy, but i am very optimistic that we are going to win a lot of these major races and make sure that we push back on the attempts to take away american freedom to vote. >> one of the states mentioned in our reporting here at nbc's the conservative canvassers targeting voters and colorado. from your vantage point, from what you see, what can be done to stop these activists from intimidating voters? >> well, in colorado, the naacp and a league of women voters have actually filed a lawsuit against these groups. and the group leading the charge on colorado has also been tie to security breaches

we have that here, so it does seem that it is part of a coordinated effort to destabilize elections. you know, my job as secretary of state is to make sure that every eligible republican, democrat, and on officiated -- we have been pushing back against attempts to destabilize elections here and across the nation, very successfully. so, rest assured, we are seeing these attempts that we should not see any united states of america. but we are winning the battle to make sure that elections remain free and fair and i am sure that we will win going forward into the november 8th election across the nation. >> you have warned that americans need to pay close attention to secretary of state races across the country to safeguard voting rights. i would almost here to say that four years ago most americans did not necessarily know that secretaries of states and most dates oversee our election infrastructure. explain to me a little bit about what you meant by that. >> right now, there are election deniers running as the

republican nominees for secretary of state in nevada, arizona, michigan, and new mexico and other states also. these candidates are telling us that they will suppress the vote, destabilized elections. there are folks that do not believe in free and fair elections running to oversee free and fair elections. democracy is on the ballot across the nation and in fact, on top of secretary of state candidates, over 60% of american voters in november will have an election denier on their ballots. democracy is on the ballot, but so are fundamental freedoms and we as voters have this huge responsibility and opportunity to make sure that this country remains of, by, and for the people and we do that by getting out the vote and making sure that we push back on this extremism in november. >> one thing i wanted to ask you about and it is something that sometimes gets a little bit criticized -- we are no longer but -- it really is election week. votes in many swing states will not be fully counted on election night.

can you speak in a broad sense to why that is not nefarious and whether or not it is good that it takes us so long to count the votes and not be a little bit more expedited, given how modern and advanced america's? >> american election should be decided by american voters and to do, that voters need accessible, secure and safe elections. i think colorado is a really good example of an accessible election that works really well. we have vote by mail for all, so just affirmatively sand every registered voter a mailed ballot. they are going out in a couple weeks, the week of october 17th. we also have in-person voting, same-day voter registration and a host of various other access points. when you get folks access in a secure way, they will vote. we have the second highest turnout in the nation. you are absolutely right. it is not election day. it should be several election

weeks because there are a lot of people in every state and there are a lot of people across the nation. and frankly, it is egregious to think that america's would have to stand in a long line -- we're a modern country. government needs to offer modern elections. a tactic of voter suppression is to make it hard, make them jump in hoops. so, elections can be nice and accessible and secure just like in colorado. i encourage every american. republican, democrat, on affiliated to make sure the register to vote and to make a plan to vote because it is coming up here soon. >> it does not work if people do not get up and actually vote and make the system work. secretary, janet griswold, thank you so much for your time. really appreciate you joining us this evening. after the break, trump's racist, threatening attacks.

there's a reason comcast business powers more businesses than any other provider. actually, there's a few... comcast business offers the fastest, reliable network... the protection of security edge... and the most reliable 5g network. want me to keep going? i can... whether your business is starting or growing, you need comcast business. technology solutions that put you ahead get started with fast speeds and advanced security together for $69.99 a month for 12 months. plus find out how to get up to a $650 prepaid card with a qualifying bundle. hi, my name's steve. i lost 138 pounds on golo and i kept it off. so with other diets, you just feel like you're muscling your way through it. the reason why i like golo is plain and simple, it was easy. i didn't have to grit my teeth and do a diet.

golo's a lifestyle change and you make the change and it stays off. golo's changed my life in so many ways. i sleep better, i eat better. took my shirt off for the first time in 25 years. it's golo. it's all golo. it's smarter, it's better, when you're dealing with it will change your life forever. someone for whom there is no bottom, it's not surprising to see him hit a new low. that said, trump's latest attack on mitch mcconnell stands out for its recklessness. we're not gonna show you the social media post that we're talking about here. we don't need to further amplify his height. but it's important that you understand some of what he said. trump said mcconnell has a death wish for supporting legislation to keep the u.s. government operating. language that could be read by his supporters as inviting violence against mcconnell. and then, trump used a racial slur against mcconnell's asian american spouse -- transportation secretary and

his own administration. -- washington post, to dismiss all this as just trump being trump is to ignore what is really going on here. the january 6th attack on the u.s. capital by his crazed followers after he ran leaned -- then president urged them to fight like hell to overturn the 2020 election result should've put to rest any debts that his where it's concealment violence. in an unrelated piece about threats to members of congress, the u.s. time -- security purposes since last year as lawmakers face a greater number of death threats. maine senator susan collins told the times, i wouldn't be surprised if a senator or house member was killed. and yet, republicans, knowing about their increased security risks and knowing trump's ability to incite violence, said nothing in response to his odious where it's. and yet, republicans, knowing about their increased security risks and knowing trump's ability to incite violence, said nothing in response to his odious where it's. this morning, rick scott, the

head of the senate republicans campaign arm refused to condemn the attack against mcconnell and dismissed the racist slur against elaine chao, chalking it up to just another trump nickname. yes. the racists low that is so offensive for me to say on national television was just a nickname for rick scott. -- didn't mention trump's words or ask republicans about them, as was the case on fox, where it was ignored during a conversation with georgia governor brian kemp. but some -- can't speak to every republican, and the truth has, shouldn't threats of violence and racist slaves be condemned without having to ask them for them to be condemned? the same republican who was outraged when president biden used the word semifinalists the other week, the same republicans now have nothing to say about trump. they are cowards, and their cowardice could get someone killed. let's bring in our sunday night panel. -- chair of the department of

african american studies at princeton university. he's an msnbc political analyst -- associate professor of political science at florida university. good to have you with us. i'll start with you. your reaction to trump's remarks, both the attack on mcconnell and the threat against mcconnell, as i see it, and the racist slur used against his wife. >> well, first of all, it's great to see you. and it's indicative of what we know about trump. it's indicative his character. but it's really important for us to see the relationship between these two comments. so, when trump uses a racist slur, he's actually speaking to a particular segment of his constituents. you're speaking to white nationalists. he's speaking to the oath keepers. he's speaking to those who hold noxious views. when he uses these graceful slurs, racist slurs, alongside a veiled threat or not so veiled threats in a mob like way, he's actually activating that particular constituency.

he's activating those things that animate them. we need to see the relationship not between just some throw off nickname, but the way he uses language to activate his followers. people who are trump supporters, but actually engage or potentially engage in violence. it's a very dangerous move. it's like the mob on one hand, but it's also a direct -- he's directly speaking to those noxious elements within his following that can do violence in the name of racism. >> christina, what do you make of rick scott's dodge on trump 's comments, brushing it off as a nickname, saying he might even have a nickname for me. >> well, i think what we've seen right now is that there just is no bottom with so many members of this party. the way they're standing up for the former president and his racist ideology is, it's really disappointing.

but not surprising anymore. doesn't seem that donald trump is gonna be happy until there is some real bloodshed, and we saw some on january 6th. but the fact that he's threatening, and not veiled threats threatening mitch mcconnell who is of his party, the fact that he's using a racist slur to a cabinet member from his own cabinet, that lets us know it should be every single republican coming out denouncing this type of rhetoric, this type of language and mobilization. but the fact that time and time again, when the former president does this and they're met by silence by republicans, from the federal level to the state level, even down to republicans who are in state house, all of them should be in lockstep denouncing this disgusting rhetoric. and they're silences saying a lot about what they actually believe and condone we. >> at a, why do you think that is?

christine's point about the silence from the republicans about this. is it simply fear or is it agreement? why do you think republicans have a hard time condemning these remarks? >> i think it's a combination of things. i think it's fair, i kind of cynical position, they're worried about their base, and then there's agreement. that these folks actually hold similar views to trump. when we think about feckless politicians who are just kowtowing to what they take to be the base and what the base decides, the dangerous. they're complicit. when we think about folks who agree with these folks, they're dangerous. because of their commitments. and we think of cynical politicians, they're only concerned about holding power. so they're dangerous. i think we need to be very

clear. oftentimes, we think about political violence in the united states as something that is well beyond the pale, when in fact, political violence has been essential part of our politics since the formation of the republic. up until recent history. so, we need to understand these threats as real and substance to i've, and as a constituent part of the political history in this country. >> christina, last night, speaking of political violence, you had a rally in michigan. it was headlined by marjorie taylor greene. this is a direct quote. she said, democrats want republicans dead and of already started the killings. -- deeper than trump, because this is projection islam, i think, when republicans used this kind of language. this is just cold, calculated incitement to somehow suggest the democrats are killing republicans. >> you said the right word. it's projectionist. the fact that republicans are obsessed with the fact that democrats are allegedly racist, or allegedly the party of peta files, where the ones that hate

the climate and poor people, the projection is so unreal that you left scratching your head. i think it's also dangerous, though, is that someone like marjorie taylor greene is gonna go to michigan, where the sitting governor, a credible threat, to kidnap and kill her was foiled. thank goodness. but there are nine individuals who have a deep plan to not just kidnap and kill the seeding governor, democratic governor, but many other democrats throughout the state. so to go, just as a delay that, to actually just start sowing more seeds and really galvanizing the type of base that donald trump and marjorie taylor greene and their ilk have been cultivating for so many years, is incredibly dangerous. they are literally telling their supporters to take arms to do what they think is correct. we cannot underestimate the severity of january 6th. not just the fact that people were murdered. the fact that the sitting president told individuals to actually go and take something. those images, you know, a burned in our brains. but i think far too many

americans are taking it -- aren't taking it seriously enough. that was just a calling card. that was just a preview, foreshadow, of what donald trump is talking so many of his supporters to do in the next few years if they don't get the results that they want. >> and that piece in the new york times, eddie i was just referencing there, it goes on to say that the threat against members of congress that people targeted the most, as you can imagine, democrats, women, people of color. aoc, speaker pelosi. not surprising when you say the way republicans target these women and others, that the biggest number of threats would be directed against them. and my eyes, it's a correlation between the language that is used as incitement against them and the risk level that they are facing. >> absolutely. they become representative of the threat to the republic as they see it. it's almost like a pencil move.

your first segment, talking about, you know, secretary of state. talking about voter suppression laws. putting in place the seeds of doubt. undermining legitimacy interest in the election. so if the outcome isn't what they want, the connection the undermine it. the can resist. and then, setting up the potential of violence. so you undermine the electoral system, you undermine the basic foundation of american democracy, and then you set up the strong-arm, the violence, that can ensue as a result of fear rejecting the outcomes of the election. this is very dangerous. we cannot play with us. this is not just about trump being a bad actor. this is part and parcel of the very threat to the republic. >> all right, panel, please stick around. we've got more to discuss. up next, ginni thomas. she's become a problem.

the last to be chosen. shelter dogs with special needs face a far longer road to adoption. but subaru knows even the toughest roads can lead to the most amazing places. that's why subaru and our retailers created national make a dog's day... to help all underdogs find homes. subaru. more than a car company.

♪limu emu & doug♪ it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. showtime. whoo! i'm on fire tonight. (limu squawks) yes! limu, you're a natural. we're not counting that. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ i would like to thank a great

woman named ginni thomas. she said that she still believes the 2020 election was stolen. she didn't say, i'd like not to get involved. >> that was donald trump last night praising ginni thomas for holding strong to her belief in the big lie, which we now know she reiterated during her interview with the january six committee this week. that's the problem here. not only because she pushed through multiple avenues adverts to overturn the 2020 election, but also, let's be honest, because of who her husband us. as michelle -- new york times, you don't have to be a left-wing anti trump minion of the deep state to think it's a bad look for american democracy to have the wife of supreme court justice implicated in a multi tentacled scheme to overturn -- ginni thomas claims her husband,

clarence thomas, had no knowledge of her postelection activities, but he doesn't need to know all the details to support the big lie like she does. lest we forget justice thomas was the lone dissenting vote on the supreme court when it rejected trump's efforts to block the release of his presidential records for the january six committee. the wife of a sitting supreme court justice believes the 2020 election was stolen, and we are to believe she never talked about any of that with her husband. who are we kidding? my sunday night panel is back with me. christina, i'll start with you. trump is praising supreme court justice's wife for believing the big lie. it doesn't get much crazier than that. >> now. and the fact that justice thomas still hasn't recused himself should let us know we're in very dangerous territory with the supreme court. it should be an autonomous branch and shouldn't be affected by politics and the way that ginni thomas is

clearly -- several states across the united states. she seems pretty unabashed about it, the fact that donald trump is fine praising and campaign right now -- effort to overturn a legitimate presidential election should let us know that clarence thomas should definitely recuse himself from several cases that are coming into the supreme court. we had to dig deeper about the role of spaces and these very important positions. >> even if clarence thomas didn't know about his wife's efforts to overturn the election, which i'm currently not buying, isn't it bad enough that the two of them spoke or at least likely spoke about the big lie? and the fact that she believes that the election was stolen two years on? >> absolutely. christina is as brilliant as always and just hit the nail on the head. it flies in the face of reasonableness for us to believe that they haven't talked, and it seems to me that even if they hadn't, just for the sake of the matter, he should recuse himself, as christina laid out. these folk things that can do whatever they want and not be held to account. let's just be clear.

that's what they believe. and to be damned i think the norms, they're just gonna do whatever they want to do. -- they don't seem to care, it seems to me. >> -- so many friend's, especially with their attack on our democracy. what would you like to see in terms of accountability? it doesn't seem like the january six committee as its sights set on -- the stage -- there's no accountability for what you may done in trying to overturn the election. >> now. it doesn't look like there's going to be -- high-profile republicans that are not just believing the big lie but doubling down and trying to strong-arm and bully people in various states to go along with the other nonsense. but i do think there's a recourse that we could have, it would be great if eight of the supreme court justices said to

their colleagues that this is actually not great for us as an institution, as a body. you need to recuse yourself. because your wife has been so vocal and so egregious and believing and supporting and pushing forward this big lie. i would hope justice roberts would sit down with clarence thomas and say, for the sake of the republic moving forward, for people to have trust in the supreme court, it's imperative that you step aside. because how can anyone believe that the supreme court's autonomous doing the work it's supposed to do, as laid out in the constitution, if we know that clarence thomas allegedly doesn't speak to his wife about something so important as overturning election? >> i was gonna say. peoples confidence in the supreme court is so low. large part of it has to be that conflict of interest that submerged as a result of clarence thomas. the longer this festers, the more people will lose confidence in the supreme court in addition to all the

decisions they've been making in might make this time. professors, can't thank you enough. always a pleasure to see you both. thank you. still to come, the militia group members about to go on trial for their role in the capitol insurrection. first, my friend -- with an update on in. hey, richard. >> hey, ethan. great to see. -- across the grub to condemn iran's government crackdown on protests in the country. this began after the death of a young woman while in police custody, 22-year-old mahsa amini. los angeles, boston, and toronto, just to maine a few, just saw massive demonstrations. demonstrations the neuron as well over -- entered their third week. iran's morality police detained her in the capital for allegedly not adhering to the strict islamic dress code. -- she was beaten, but officials claim she died of a heart attack. -- at least 92 people have been killed during clashes with iranian forces. nbc news has not yet verified

those numbers. that same group says there have been severe cuts to internet access in iran. more -- after this break. you see that? that's when i realized i'm ready to start my own place. yeah, i'm really excited. alright, that sounds great. so i'm making plans for right now. ♪♪ like going back to my roots and opening my own restaurant. ♪♪ start your plan today with a northwestern mutual financial advisor and spend your life living. ♪♪ moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day, that's effective without topical steroids. many taking rinvoq

saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. plus, they felt fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. ♪ ♪ this is the moment. for a treatment for moderate-to-severe eczema. cibinqo — fda approved. 100% steroid free. not an injection, cibinqo is a once-daily pill

for adults who didn't respond to previous treatments. and cibinqo helps provide clearer skin and less itch. cibinqo can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. do not take with medicines that prevent blood clots. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma, lung, skin and other cancers, serious heart-related events, and blood clots can happen. people 50 and older with heart disease risk factors have an increased risk of serious heart-related events or death with jak inhibitors. this is the moment. but we've only just begun. speak with your doctor about cibinqo today. an innovation from pfizer. ♪ ♪ speak with your doctor about cibinqo today. luxury exemplified. innovation electrified. with apple music seamlessly integrated.

the all-new, all-electric eqs suv from mercedes-benz. >> polls in brazil are closed and incumbent president bolsonaro,, former president

luiz inácio lula da silva are heading for a -- the two will continue to battle it out and once one of the most contested and polarizing elections in the country's recent history. meanwhile, leftist luiz inácio lula da silva has maintained the clear lead over right-wing bolsonaro. coming ahead of the current president in the first round of voting, there's really no way to tell what could come next. bolsonaro has been not so subtly planting seeds of doubt in his own country's electoral process. i wonder where you got that from? he's repeatedly without evidence allege that puzzles electronic voting system can be easily manipulated, claiming a few receives less than 60% of the vote, quote, something abnormal has happened. an incumbent president lagging in the polls, promoting rigged election conspiracies before votes have even been counted. again, where have i seen that? this kind of behavior is a new for bolsonaro, once declared that his tenure in office would end in one of three ways. victory, death, or prison. but it does come at an interesting time. the washington post characterized the election as a referendum on the countries democracy. it's election comes on the heels of giorgia maloney's victory in italy last week,

when she became italy's first female prime minister and first far-right leaders since -- world war ii. she belongs to the fascist party founded by supporters of former italian dictator benito mostly any. and she is keeping those fascist roots alive and well. she claimed large-scale illegal immigration was planned and deliberate, carried out by some unnamed forced to import low wage labor and -- drive out ethnic italians, which he calls ethnic substitution. you might know it as the far-right great replacement conspiracy theory that has been paired it by republicans right here in america. maloney has been praised by american far-right figures like steve bannon and, earlier this year, she was personally invited to speak at the political action conference. >> we live in a time in which everything we stand for is under attack.

our individual freedom is under attack. our rights are under attack. the sovereignty of our nation is under attack. the prosperity and well-being of our families are under attack. the education of our children is under attack. >> that kind of fearmongering falls right in line with the gop's current platform. nearly devoid of policy, but chalk full of terror and fear. the republican embrace of giorgia meloni should not come as a shock, since conservatives have already sold their soul to, as biden calls it, a semi fascist leader right in america. -- five members of the oath keepers militia group, including its founder, stewart rhodes, are set to stand trial for their role in the january 6th insurrection the keep donald trump in power. they're the first defendants to be tried on seditious conspiracy charges. that means prosecutors will have to prove what happened that day. prove that it wasn't a bryant, but a coordinated plot to stop the press substantial transfer of power.

it's an example of something we've seen play out time again with authoritarian leaders abroad. militia back to, and our case, thankfully, that did not succeed, at least some of its peers for traders are now facing the comp -- consequences. if history is shown us anything, it's not the arc of human civilization does not necessarily bend towards democracy. there will always be another leader likable scenario, meloni, and trump backed by groups like the oath keepers who used the power to bend the arc away from the will of the majority, away from freedom, and away from justice. so, how can defenders of democracy fight back against a global authoritarian assault? after the break, i'll speak to author and journalist catherine stewart about the rise of far-right extremism here at home, as well as overseas. stay with me.

covid-19. some people get it, and some people can get it bad. and for those who do get it bad, it may be because they have a high-risk factor. such as heart disease, diabetes, being overweight, asthma, or smoking. even if symptoms feel mild, these factors can increase your risk of covid-19 turning severe. so, if you're at high risk and test positive, don't wait. ask your healthcare provider right away if an authorized oral treatment is right for you. >> democratic values are under

assault both at home and abroad. far-right groups are pulling from the same playbook,

basically, stoking fear and strengthening their own power in the process. let's discuss this now with catherine stewart. she's a reporter who specializes and extremism. she's also the author of the book the power worshippers, inside the dangerous rise of religious nationalism. catherine, great to see you, great to have you here. lucky for us. i wanted to get your reaction to what is happening in both brazil and italy. it seems, as i was saying there, both playing on a similar set of furious. it has to be a major cause of concern. >> it's interesting what's happening in brazil. bolsonaro threatening to disrespect the consequences in an election he doesn't like. this is absolutely what trump did by spreading election lies and seeking to undermine the electoral process. but this is very characteristic of authoritarian leaders. it's not the only thing the men have been common. they both exploited religion

for political purposes. confusing -- religious nationalist rhetoric to consolidate their power. and so, religious nationalists observe very similar means of trying to consolidate authoritarian power. they attacked the electoral system, they attacked the courts, they attack the press, they attack, often, women's rights, lgbtq rights, and they identify an internal anomie that they blame all of societies problems on. they use it as a scapegoat go. >> at the same time, they say that we are under attack. -- and maloney's case, as we played in that clip earlier, talking at cpac, saying we're under attack, our way of life is under attack, and she said another segments. christiane 80s under attack, identities under attack. they use that narrative of being under attack as a way to justify the positions. >> the un exclusionary nationalism.

her party rejects immigration and people of immigrant background. they reject women's rights, again, lgbtq rights, and they reject globalists and claim that the ones being persecuted, even as they're trying to consolidate a more authoritarian form of government. >> -- they found that one in three americans prefer a strong unelected leader to a weak elected leader. basically, preferring an undemocratic but strong leader to a democratic but weak leader. that number is higher among republicans, which is in the astonishing 42%. does that result shock you? does it worry you that people are drawn to undemocratic leaders as long as they are strong? >> i think it should worry all of us. but it shows that propaganda works. one thing that former president trump did as he used the language of persecution. he sort of used a lot of propaganda, and this is something that christian nationalist movements -- americas form of religious nationalism has done in our

country. they use propaganda. if you can persuade large numbers of americans to believe in conspiracism and be immune to certain kinds of real information, and makes them much more easy to control. >> one of the ongoing debates in the country is whether or not this is a top down driven movement, or a bottom up driven movement. what do you think, based on what you've seen? can you have an oath keepers without trump? can you have a trump without the base that allows him to rise to the top? >> the movement, the religious nationalism in america, is absolutely a top down leadership driven movement. it's also organization driven. and works with these various organizations, who served to get the leadership of different factions on the same page. when you look at groups like the oath keepers, these other militia groups, i think it's a mistake to see them as survivalist folks. these people have fully embraced the rhetoric of religious nationalism. they reject any government official that doesn't buy into their agenda. but where does that rhetoric

come from? a lot of it actually comes from the leadership of the movement. >> speaking of the oath keepers, -- if they are in fact found guilty of seditious conspiracy, those that we can the movement? is it enough to derail this burgeoning threat that the fbi now says one of the biggest if not the biggest threat facing american national security? >> when you look at groups like the oath keepers, these militia movements, that's not really where the bulk of the movement is. they're incredibly useful -- to would be authoritarians like president trump, but much of the movement targets the courts. leadership knows that a lot of their policies would be -- they know if you can get the quartz, you can get the country.

so there are norma sums that have targeted our courts, we have a very un-representative supreme court. six conservatives. every single one of them is a current or former member of the federalist society. one of the key organizations of the moment. so, whether or not you have the oath keepers themselves or other militia movements, a lot of the way religious nationalism works is through the courts and by sort of gerrymandered state legislatures. >> when you look at the world and service -- we were talking about it earlier. you have it here in the u.s., you're seeing it in italy, certainly in brazil, you still have it in turkey, you have it in israel, these right-wing governments that draw on a religious base, religious nationalism as you say. how do you reverse the tide of this extremism? >> it's really a challenge. i think that right now, in america, we're certainly in an all hands on deck moment.

one thing that the movement is very good at doing is persuading the rank and file, how important it is to vote, and listen. this is a minority -- the majority of americans, religious and nonreligious alike, reject the politics of conquest and division that this movement represents. we have the power. we just need to use. >> let's hope the supreme court doesn't up and our democracy. catherine stewart, thank you so much. oh is fascinating to have this conversation with you. hope you'll come back. >> thanks for having me. >> thank you for making time for us at home. be sure to catch ayman back here on -- saturday nights at eight, sundays at nine. follow us on twitter, tiktok, and into program. i'm ayman, msnbc. -- saturday night sunday, sunday nights at nine. make sure to follow us on tiktok, twitter, and instagram, and hayman at msnbc. hayman at msnbc. . just one sheet helps remove pet hair from your clothes! looking good starts in the dryer with bounce pet.

(vo) you can be well-dressed. (man) wahoooo! (vo) you can be well-groomed. or even well-spoken. (man) ooooooo. (vo) but there's just something about being well-adventured. (man) wahoooooo! (vo) adventure on a deeper level. discover more in the subaru forester wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. subaru is the national park foundation's largest corporate donor. make your home totally you. i did with wayfair. sometimes i'm a homebody. can never have too many pillows. sometimes i'm all business. wooo! i'm a momma 24/7. seriously with the marker? i'm a bit of a foodie. perfect. but not much of a chef. yes! ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need. ♪

new astepro allergy. now available without a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid free spray. while other allergy sprays take hours astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can... astepro and go. before we begin, i'd like to thank our sponsor, liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. and by switching, you could even save $652. thank you, liberty mutual.

now, contestants ready? go! i'm craig melvin. why? why? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

>> and i'm natalie morales. >> and this is dateline! >> it happens on tv. it doesn't happen to your nephew, to your brother. but it does. >> no one thought it could happen to him. he was a tough guy prepared for anything. >> he always would say, if anyone tries to begin hint. i will kill them. >> instead, he was killed. >> stabbed in his own home. >> you show your dad's cool to the touch? >> his son, and daughter in law, stumbled into a terrifying scene. >> that's what i saw the gun. >> they