to which some republican candidates are interested in taking this issue. >> terrific on the ground reporting there, we appreciate it. "politico's" elena snyder, thank you very much for joining us this morning. thank you to all of you for getting up way too early with us on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪♪ good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, october 4th, a lot to cover this morning. major developments out of ukraine. sweeping new gains for kyiv as the ukrainian military forces russia to retreat from areas vladimir putin claims to have annexed. also, new revelations on the trump documents case. did the former president try to get one of his lawyers to make a false claim to prosecutors that all of the government documents had been returned. we'll have the latest reporting on that. and the most high profile trial yet. connected to the capital attack

as the justice department accuses the far right militia group, the oath keepers of plotting an armed rebellion to keep donald trump in power. we'll go live to the federal courthouse in washington, d.c. where testimony begins today. and liz cheney steps up again, this time speaking out against trump's recent attack on mitch mcconnell and mcconnell's wife, calling trump's remarks about elaine chao absolutely despicable and racist. we'll have the latest update on a growing scandal. >> that's actually one republican that's spoken out. >> exactly. >> against donald trump attacking the senate majority leader with violent rhetoric and making racist statements about his wife. i don't really -- not a lot of other republicans, elected republicans who have done that. >> i guess we can't be shocked anymore, but it is shocking. it still is shocking.

>> it should be. >> that the leader of the united states senate in the republican party had a quote death wish placed on him by the former president of the united states. his wife was attacked with racist slurs. and no one says anything. mitch mcconnell has a whole lot of friends in the united states senate, people he has worked with for decades, long before he ever met donald trump. they won't stand up in this moment of all moments and defend him against that. it's still stunning even though it shouldn't be. >> it is still stunning. this guy is not going in politics forever. like they're going to have to live with all of the decisions that they've made over the past five, six years, and those decisions keep getting worse. it's like we were talking about before, this is a moment where it's obvious the legal problems are mounting. he's becoming more vicious in his rhetoric. he's putting a death wish on the top republican of the united states senate. and this is a good chance for

them to step away, whether they support ron desantis, the virginia governor, whether they support somebody else who can carry through on the same issues. they won't do it, despite the fact he's embracing qanon. >> the thing is we should be shocked. every time donald trump does this, he desensitizes the republican party which seems in some ways most led like members of his cult, and americans to this type of behavior. republicans, i'm not a huge mitch mcconnell supporter but i'll do your job for you. no, you should not threaten mitch mcconnell. you should not make racist attacks on his wife. you should not put him in danger. you should not put his wife this danger. these people may not agree with them serve our country, served in the administration, this is wrong. it's not hard. >> you know, willie, i can't even begin to tell you, and i know this is obvious, but from

my time when i served anybody that made a statement closely approaching this, they would be condemned, and they would be sitting in their office wondering if they were going to have to be shoved out of public service. i saw members of congress make really stupid statements, statements that immediately go out and apologize for, and they still get in trouble. they still saw their political careers, their lives in public service damaged greatly because of a mistake they would make here or there. this is so beyond the pale, just like everything this guy has said is so beyond the pale, and again, why elected republicans in the united states senate aren't speaking out and defending mitch mcconnell. why they're not speaking out and defending mitch mcconnell's family. it's just beyond crazy. >> you could make the case, guys, that the fear of donald trump is the strongest force in

american politics because if you're in the united states senate, a republican, privately we know what they say, they're disgusted by him and that message, but they're saying do i stick up for my friend and do the obviously right thing and say that's a disgusting statement, he shouldn't have said that or do i criticize donald trump, do i back off. what do i do here. and the answer always has been i got to back off because i don't want to upset donald trump. i don't want to upset his supporters. it's the same reason i imagine we won't hear much criticism of herschel walker despite the stories we saw yesterday. we'll get into that a little bit later but the fear of donald trump is guiding all the decision making in the republican party. >> it's chipping away at the fabric of who we are. >> we're going to introduce everybody and talk about this and much more, let's take a hard turn really quickly. still waiting for number 62. judge. and i don't care whether you're a yankees fan, a red sox fan, you got to be rooting for this guy. he's just such a good guy.

waiting for him to get to 62 home runs and be the all time single season home run champ, major league baseball needs to wipe out all the steroids, the cheaters, wipe them off the record books. if judge hits 62, he's the all time home run champ for a year. still waiting there where pujols, just incredible what he has done at 32 years old. there was some question whether aaron judge would sit one of the games. now he only has three for shots to break the record. infield single last night, struck out. he was in the on deck circle, joe, when the final out for the yankees was made and the crowd booed because they wanted to see him hit one more time. two games today, one game tomorrow. in the three games, if he gets

up enough, you would like to think he would be able to put one out. the last couple of weeks, obviously with this much attention on it, he's certainly feeling that. three more chances to break the record, and i sure hope he does. along with joe, willie and me, we have u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay and the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire is with us, and we are still learning this morning the toll of hurricane ian after at least 100 people are now confirmed dead in florida. search and rescue crews continue to sift through the rubble in one of the hardest hit communities looking for life. nbc news correspondent sam brock has the latest. >> reporter: a gut wrenching look at fort myers beach at the ground level for the first time since hurricane ian made landfall. >> no structure on this island has gone unscathed. >> reporter: our cameras, the first to tour what is now just

unframed homes, unrecognizable lots with nothing left except air-conditioning units, toilets and rubble. the international association of firefighters president edward kelly leading us through the wreckage. >> search and rescue. >> reporter: searching 3,500 properties just in fort myers beach. how long do you think that's going to go on for? >> it's a common question and a lot of people want to know a time frame. unfortunately, time frames are very dynamic, they're fluid. >> reporter: as you look at the thousands of properties on fort myers island, they run the gamut are from homes that look like they're still standing to piles of rubble that have to be sifted through layer by layer to other properties that look structurally unsafe. all require a different approach and delicacy to go through. for homes at risk of collapse, the process can take hours to protect anybody that could still be inside as well as the emergency responders. >> we don't want to free more

victims, and more victims from the storm and more victims from the rest of this. >> reporter: criticism is growing around when officials called for the evacuations. the national hurricane center cited life threatening storm surge for fort myers at 5:00 p.m. monday. on tuesday morning, the first mandatory orders were issued and expanded throughout the day. >> i think it was a little late. it should have been sometime monday. it's such a low lying area, and even though it was hit in tampa. tampa is right there. >> people don't want to leave their valuables behind. >> reporter: in the midst of the dark chapter, the chairman and ceo of florida power and light, changes to infrastructure are helping with repairs. >> anybody that can accept power, thousands of structures will not be able to accept power by the close of business on friday. >> reporter: a glimmer of light for a community stunned by so much loss. >> this is my mother's house, this is my whole life.

my mom was supposed to retire here and spend the rest of her life and be happy and now we have nothing. >> nbc's sam brock with that report, and we're going to go live to florida's hardest hit community just ahead. our coverage will continue on that. willie. looking overseas now, ukraine making more major breakthroughs on the battlefield this morning with forces gaining ground in parts of the country that's long been controlled by russia. nbc news correspondent erin mclaughlin has the latest. >> reporter: ukrainian forces are making stunning gains to the south, just days after a victory in the eastern town of lyman hoisting the ukrainian flag and tearing russian signs down from areas where just days ago, russian president putin declared the ukrainian territory would be russia's forever. a long awaited breakthrough in a

bloody war potentially entering a new phase. this man says a bomb blew a 30 foot hole in his backyard. >> how did you survive? >> translator: i don't know, he says. >> reporter: russian state tv bluntly warning viewers we should not be expecting good news, and airing this video of draftees training before heading to ukraine. but around half of the soldiers conscripted in a region of the far east now being sent home after being deemed unfit, according to a russian official. the leader of chechnya releasing this footage claim to go show his teenage sons, including his 14-year-old preparing for war. days after the putin ally called for russia to use low yield nuclear weapons on the battlefield. >> nbc's erin mclaughlin reporting from ukraine for us. joining us retired u.s. army general steph twitty, he served a number of combat tours in iraq

afghanistan, and he is also an msnbc military analyst. general twitty, thank you so much for being with us this morning. what do you make of the reports we're hearing there from on the ground about the gains made by ukraine in the south, contrasted with the rhetoric we have been hearing from vladimir putin over the last several days that they have now taken back those four regions, that they are on the march, russia is achieving its objectives and in fact, it may use low yield nuclear weapons. what is the state of the war right now? >> willie, it's been impressive to watch the ukrainians. they have taken the city of lyman as you just reported and donetsk, and they're headed now to take crimea and luhansk so they're pushing deeper in the east. by the way, in the south, they pushed deeper today. north of kherson, headed to the dnipro river, if they can cut

the dnipro river, that will stop the logistics going from the east to the south and so they have forced the russian hand and they have them fighting on a two-front war, and the russians cannot mask because of this, and so the tactics that the ukrainians are using are pretty good tactics at this point. they just need to keep the momentum. in terms of the rhetoric we're hearing out of russia, what i will tell you is we should be concerned about nuclear weapons, tactical weapons, chemical weapons, but we should not be deterred and as you can see the ukrainians, they are continuing this momentum here. they're not deterred and so from the west's perspective, we just need to continue to support them and get them the equipment that they need so they can continue this momentum. >> you know, let's go to bbc's katty kay, it's very interesting

that when vladimir putin waves the bloody flag of nuclear blackmail, it seems daunting at first, and then the more people seem to analyst they understand what a lose-lose proposition it is that if you were to use even a limited nuclear strike, some american military people would say the u.s. would be justified to destroy the russian army, sink their navy and basically finish them off. of course that would lead obviously to other consequences as well, but it is a no-win scenario for vladimir putin the second he steps through that door. >> yeah, my understanding, joe, is that bill burns, the head of the cia has made that clear to the russians in conversations that they've had that were there to be the use of any kind of low grade or tactical nuclear weapon in the field in ukraine, which is what the assumption would be, that's where they would try to use it in the theater of

operations in ukraine, that actually the americans may well respond at that point with some kind of strike against russian forces in the east of the country. they did it in kosovo, incredibly effectively in kosovo, we have seen the americans do it before from the air, have impact like that. you're right. there would be a lose proposition from the russians, which i think vladimir putin is weighing up. general, one question to you, if vladimir putin now says that the areas of the country that ukrainians are making advances in are actually part of russia, which seems to be what that declaration implies, what does that mean for his retaliation against the ukrainians or was that declaration just an empty threat, if it doesn't actually change the fact on the ground in terms of retaliation against ukrainian forces. >> well, i personally think it was an empty threat. we must remember, in order to claim, you must be able to hold

it. when you take a look at the four blasts, russian soldiers do not own any of them, and so it looks like the ukrainians will be able to hold on to the four o blasts and continue to march deeper in them. you can claim by voice all you want that you have the land, if you don't have boots on the ground holding it, it means nothing. >> all right. retired u.s. army general steph twitty, thank you very much for your insight this morning. we'll be following this. we have a new development to report this morning in the mar-a-lago documents case. "the washington post" reports former president donald trump asked one of his lawyers in early 2022 to tell the national archives that trump had returned all the materials requested by the agency but that lawyer, alex kennon, declined to do so because he was not sure if that claim was true. >> he didn't want to lie to the justice department. >> don't want to be put in that

position. that's according to people familiar of the matter. let's bring in the coauthor of the report, jackie alemany, what can you tell us? >> what our reporting told us yesterday is that the former president trump is actually now at the center of the mishandling of improper classified documents. this story has him asking one of his lawyers to tell the national archives in early 2022 that he had returned all of the materials requested by the agency. but that lawyer declined because he was unsure that the statement was true according to people familiar with the matter. obviously later on when the fbi actually executed the search warrant of mar-a-lago, they discovered hundreds of other documents that had yet to be retrieved after that initial january haul. we know that the former

president actually wanted this lawyer to tell the archives that he had, again, handed over everything. he had suggested a certain statement, and again, this lawyer refused to do so. >> jackie, tell us a little bit more about alex cannon, we know the attorney who decided not to follow the president's orders. has he been interviewed by the january 6th committee. per his reporting, if trump is telling him to lie, that indicates obstruction, no? >> those are all very good questions and points, john. we haven't figured out the answers to the first two things. we know the doj has really been engaged in exhaustive interviews in a lot of parties involved with the mar-a-lago boxes investigation, and actually that investigation, we have been told, is further ahead than the

january 6th investigation. so i would presume that it would make sense that alex cannon would have been interviewed by these investigators as many of the staff who dealt with this already have been, but that is still unclear, and with regards to january 6th, it would also seem like cannon would be a good person for them to interview as well because cannon was the person who initially arranged for these boxes and these records to be located at mar-a-lago. although, he did tell staffers not to go through the boxes. he was at that time worried that there could have been classified information in some of those boxes and he didn't want any other staffers for the former president to sort of implicate themselves in any potential wrong doing. we also know, actually, i left this out, my first answer to mika, but this is important, that cannon initially told the

archives as early as december that he thought that there could be more documents. that is key to the investigation and key to the belief from the department of justice that there were still missing documents. you've got a detail in your story we have heard before, but it's fascinating where you say that donald trump personally packed the boxes back in january that were going to go off to the national archives, which was a tough visual to grab first of all that he's doing the work himself, but more importantly, that he was hand sifting the former president of the united states through the documents and deciding which would go back and which would stay at mar-a-lago? >> yeah, thank you for reading very closely. this is true, that trump himself eventually packed all of the boxes after very reluctantly agreeing to do so. remember, the national archives and trump's lawyers were going back and forth on this as early as may. this issue, again, was flagged

by lawyers in trump's white house two weeks prior to trump even leaving the white house and going down to mar-a-lago. but, again, this does put the former president at the center of all of this that he himself was packing the boxes. he was very secretive about the process. we were also told despite having staffers who live in palm beach and work very closely with him on the premise, but again, alex cannon had also recommended that staffers try to stay out of this, and he did ultimately arrange for one staffer to be there when the national archives contractor eventually picked up the boxes in late january, but trump is really the one who knew exactly what was in those boxes. >> all right. "the washington post" jackie alemany as always, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. willie, i know it gets old.

i don't like to talk about it every year, you know what i'm going to say. >> no. i don't think so. >> listen, every summer, and we don't like to talk about it, but willie and i, we go to the beach, and we just spend a week holed up, doing our physics experiments and this past year, and i don't have to tell you, willie, you know, but we did experiments in tangled photons and quantum mechanics, and the nobel, ripped us off, out of a delaware beach house out of the love of the game and giving the nobel prize for someone else. >> we don't do quantum mechanics

for the prize. it's a little bit like remember back in the '90s when michael jordan clearly was always the best player in the nba but it got old to give him the mvp award, they would throw in a barkley and a carl malone. we're so accomplished in the field of quantum mechanics that it gets old to honor us every year. >> every single year. >> why do you have to, like, go to him, willie. >> this year they gave it to anton zellige. >> they're good. whatever. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll go live to fort myers beach. >> the masters in '87. no one remembers because niklas won in 86. the latest on recovery efforts following hurricane ian, and a look at the take aways from a dramatic first day in the trial against five members of the oath keepers. we'll look at the case being

laid out by the justice department, and we're digging into new reporting on republican georgia senate nominee herschel walker. there are new questions being raised over his stance on abortion. also this morning, a look at the morning papers across the country, including new reporting on the most expensive governor's race in the country. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. try. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪♪ with 20 made-to-order griddle combos, there's a perfect plate for everyone. great value for all your favorites only from ihop. download the app and earn free food with every order. bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real

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with a qualifying bundle. we continue to follow the devastation in the wake of hurricane ian, and death. the total now for the hurricane is at 100. fort myers and the surrounding area, really ground zero for the hurricane when it made landfall at a very strong category 4. some questions about lee county and whether or not people were

evacuated or given an evacuation order soon enough. we'll be following that. joining us live from fort myers beach, florida, nbc news correspondent dasha burns. what's the latest there. >> reporter: mika, every morning, you know, we stand in front of a new pile of rubble because the options are frankly endless. this behind me, this is everywhere, and it's the scale skt and the scope of the search and rescue. fema tells us they have a total of 17 urban search and rescue task forces. 104 boat squad, 60 k-9s in the field. a total of 1,280 personnel and counting. those numbers have already increased because they continue to ramp this up. i'll tell you something, what you won't hear in those numbers, and what you won't hear in those

press conferences are some of the unsung heroes of this tragedy, of this devastation, and i want to introduce you to one of them. her name is ilene, and she is a nurse at one of the hospitals here. golisano children's hospital. she spent four days sleeping, living at this hospital, taking care of pediatric icu patients. ilene is pregnant with twins. she has a 1 1/2-year-old daughter at home. she was disconnected from her husband and her daughter for 24 to 36 hours, which to her, you can imagine, felt like forever. she was watching out the window as the parking lot of the hospital flooded, as cars began to float, her own car getting destroyed, and imagining what could be happening at home. she couldn't contact her husband. when they were able to call 911, she says they got a dial tone. you can imagine what runs through the mind of a mother in

that moment. i want you to hear just some of her story. >> i lost contact with my husband very early on. >> reporter: so you didn't know what was going on. >> if they were okay, if our retention pond behind our house flooded and the house was under water. if they were alive, no. do they have flotation devices, does she have a helmet, can they get to somewhere. can someone get to them, and the answer to that question was no. because at some point during the hurricane, as we were checking on our coworkers, we called 911 for a welfare check once the storm was over, and there was no 911. >> reporter: so mika, as she's thinking about her own child, she is taking care of other people's children under incredibly difficult circumstances. ultimately, she did get reunited with her husband and her daughter.

they're okay. their roof is damaged, their pipes have burst. they're trying to now get their home prepared for these twins that are coming. she is 32 weeks pregnant. you can just put yourself in those shoes, what it's like to be a young mom, to have those kids on the way, and to just have gone through all of this trauma. she was having contractions, stress contractions in the middle of our interview, and those kinds of stories, mika, are all over this place. >> amazing. nbc's dasha burns, thank you so much for bringing us that story. willie. back to politics, mika. former university of georgia and nfl running back now the republican nominee for georgia senate herschel walker says he wants to completely ban abortion likening it to murder and claiming there should be no exceptions for rape, incest or even the life of the mother, but "the daily beast" is reporting walker urged a woman who asked not to be identified because of privacy concerns to have an abortion after she became pregnant with his child whether

they were dating in 2009. the woman said she did have the procedure and that walker reimbursed her for it. according to "the daily beast" she supported her claims with a $575 receipt from the abortion clinic, a get well card from walker, and a bank deposit receipt that included an image of a signed $700 personal check from walker. "the daily beast" independently corroborated details of the claims with a close friend she told at the time and according to the woman and friend, took care of her in the days after the procedure. a lawyer representing walker's campaign told the publication the story was false. walker also released a statement calling the story a lie and threatened to sue "the daily beast" for defamation. hours after the story broke, walker's son blasted his father's bid for a senate seat calling him a bad father, a liar and a hypocrite. in a series of tweets, christian walker wrote this, quote, every

family member of herschel walker asked him not to run for office because we all knew some of his past, every single one. he decided to give us the middle finger and air out all of his dirty laundry in public while simultaneously lying about it. i'm done. he went on, i don't care about someone who has a bad past and take accountability, how dare you lie and act like you're a moral christian man. you've lived a life of destroying other people's lives. how dare crow. that is from herschel walker's son. joining us now, elena schneider, good morning, what more can you tell us about these accusations from "the daily beast," who christian walker is besides being herschel walker's son because i think that's important as well, and what this means for herschel walker's campaign. georgia republicans don't seem to mind any of the accusations we have seen come down the pike. >> these allegations came out

less than 24 hours ago. we're going to see how this is going to affect this race. in the early hours, this has had a significant impact on the race. this is one of the most important senate races across the entire country. one where herschel walker is challenging senator raphael warnock who won the seat in the 2021 runoffs which was important in giving democrats their 50/50 split in the senate. this is really a one-two punch for herschel walker in his race. first, we obviously saw the allegations that came out yesterday from "the daily beast" that laid out compelling evidence about an abortion that he allegedly paid for in 2009 even though he's a candidate who said that he does not support abortions and basically in any cases, no exceptions or rape or incest. this is a clear divergence from what he says publicly, versus what he does personally but the second sort of more devastating blow potentially is what his son has said, christian walker.

so christian walker is a tic took influencer, conservative gen z who has become popular on social media and who has been supportive of his father, not so much on his social media as conservatives in georgia would like but has generally been supportive. it's notable that he has come out and said that he now not only has told his father not to run but has further, you know, bringing to light accusations about his violence and his hypocrisy. sort of this really difficult one-two punch for herschel walker. the problem, though, is as you said he's weathered a number of controversies over the course of the summer and managed to keep the race very very tight, and i think it's important to remember how the "access hollywood" tape, although it was shocking when it came out in 2016, ultimately did not dissuade people from voting

for donald trump, and i think in some ways the electorate in georgia is somewhat similarly dug in, but it will be fascinating to see how democrats in georgia try to use this as a way to continue to disqualify herschel walker as a candidate. >> if the information bearings out, katty kay, how republican voters respond to it. there's two issues here. if the reports are true, it's the ultimate hypocrisy on the issue of abortion to be against it in any scenario. to find it convenient in your life, that's the ultimate hypocrisy on an issue that's incredibly important to many americans, and i think the letter from his son is piercing. it just remains to be seen if people are tuned in to these issues or just don't care and kind of stay in line again for someone like trump without thinking about details as you would perhaps if it was someone else. >> mika, willie said earlier on

the show that donald trump is the strongest force in american politics at the moment. is it the case in the story of herschel walker and this depressingly dysfunctional relationship he seems to have with his son. who knows what's going on in that relationship, but does it have any impact or is it really all about trump? can herschel walker get away with anything because he is prepared to support trump on the single biggest issue that matters to donald trump, which is about the lie around the 2020 election. i mean, elena, these stories about herschel walker have been out there in georgia some people suggesting on social media yesterday, some conservative commentators, look, we kind of knew all of this about herschel walker so what does this actually change. i mean, i guess all of that is incredible. the stories have been out there are not really aired and that conservatives don't care about those stories, particularly when it comes to any issue of hypocrisy in abortion.

>> you're alluding to some georgia republicans who said on twitter that this is something that was whispered about, gossiped about, and sort of assumed that maybe people already knew about this. i think there is a big difference between what conservatives and what people in political circles know privately and what voters actually know who are not tuned into elections, aren't paying attention to politics every day, and are seeing pretty devastating attack ads against herschel walker. georgia is a very very red leaning state, and it's only in the last couple of years, it has suddenly become incredibly competitive. i think it's notable that herschel walker has faced these weathering attacks, kept it close. i think this is another really challenging hurdle that we're going to see manifest in television ads, digital ads, that's going to make them

question whether or not this is a candidate they can support. >> elena thank you so much for being here this morning. we appreciate it. jonathan lemire, we can add this list, these are accusations, a report from "the daily beast" but the woman involved in the story literally has receipts to present to "the daily beast" to show she had an abortion. he says he's pro life. we have that story. he says he's pro family, three children out of wedlock that he's never spoken of and has no relationship of. we have the accusations from his ex-wife of 20 years that herschel walker held a gun to her head and said i'm going to blow your brains out. he said the past is the past, i have mental illness, let's move on. but a real test if pro family, pro life means anything. >> walker has had to face questions about a number of aspects of his background that he has misrepresented who he is and things he has done in his life, and you just detailed some of the more disturbing accusations against him. but yet, he has managed to stay

close here. polls have him down, only down a few points consistently here in such an important race for the u.s. senate with the balance of the senate potentially in power, and i think probably heard cries of frustration from senate minority leader mcconnell and his allies because of course he didn't want walker in the first place. this is trump's candidate, trump pushed him, as his choice, the party, which includes mcconnell, of course, eventually fell mind behind him, and now they have walker in trouble. and it should be noted and elena said this on "way too early," this is reminiscent of donald trump, access hollywood, that was a bad moment. he got through it. walker maybe gets through it. we have five weeks to go. there's time for the story to change. certainly democrats are going to pounce on the story. we're going to be hearing about it in the next couple of days to be sure but the two candidates have a debate in two weeks. that will loom large. there is still a lot of time and

there are a lot of outside forces, abortion rights, inflation, that likely will be the deciding factors it in that and every race. yeah, and coming up, latest on a major ballistic missile test by north korea's military. the launch has an american ally on edge this morning. we'll have a live report straight ahead. plus, the case against boosting far right candidates and why it will backfire against democrats next month. that's coming up in this morning's must read opinion pages. "morning joe" is back in just a moment. pages. "morning joe" is back in just a moment at booking.com, finding perfect isn't rocket science. kitchen? sorted. hot tub, why not? and of course, puppy-friendly. we don't like to say perfect, but it's pretty perfect. booking.com, booking.yeah. it's the subway series menu. 12 irresistible subs. the most epic sandwich roster ever created.

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it's 46 past the hour, and take a look at new york city, a foggy, rainy morning as the sun's going to struggle to come up over the big apple. the japanese government this morning issued a rare evacuation

order urging residents in its northern regions to take shelter after north korea reportedly fired a ballistic missile without warning that flew over japan for the first time in five years. according to japanese officials, the missile flew nearly 3,000 miles for 20 minutes before falling into the pacific ocean. the white house strongly condemned the test as dangerous and reckless. joining us now live from beijing, nbc news foreign correspondent janis mackey frayer. >> thank you so much for being with us. any insight on why such a provocative move would be made by north korea at this time? >> reporter: it is a major escalation. this missile flew 2,800 miles clear over japan, and that in itself is rare. only twice before have missiles flown over japan, both were in 2017. this one triggering those warnings for people to take

cover. normally, the missiles are fired higher into the air, so the distance is up into the sky. this one went straight across, landed in the pacific 2,000 miles off of the east coast, officials are now talking about appropriate reaction. the u.s. and south korea. south korean military officials saying they're already conducting quote precision bombing drills as a response. the question on timing, there's certainly been a rapid pace to testing. this is the fifth missile in just over a week. there's also been more of a showing off of capabilities. north korea could see an opportunity in the timing to test longer range weapons because the u.s. barely paid any attention to the short range missile testing that it's been doing over the past several months. as well, the biden administration is obviously focused on ukraine, and there's also the sense that this could

be the preamble to a nuclear test. that's something that hasn't happened, that kim jong un hasn't done since 2017, but there has been evidence of activity around key nuclear testing sites there, so there is the sense that perhaps this is another provocative step towards that. >> one of the lines of communication at the moment, who's doing the negotiation with north korea. sometimes it's like kim jong un is acting like like a toddler who's not getting attention, and he feels he can get away with more or he gets the world's attention. what's the point of contact given there are no formal talks between the six party talks. does the u.s. have to rely on beijing, because the relations between the u.s. and beijing aren't particularly good at the moment or do they have back channels themselves? >> there don't seem to be any line of communication between any of the players, not between south korea and north korea, not

between japan and north korea, and not between the u.s. and china. talks broke down, or suspended or cancelled in the words of chinese officials after nancy pelosi's visit to taiwan and the chinese military exercises that happened around the island for weeks after that. this is another -- we always talk about ramping up tension in the region, but there just seem to be so many dynamics at play here. remember, too, it was just a few weeks ago that u.s. intelligence suspected that north korea may be selling weapons to russia to use in ukraine. north korea officials have denied that. there are all of these things that are conspireing to work together. the fact that china is having its party congress in just a week where xi jinping is expected to assume a third term in power. a lot of power plays are in the works here, and there is the

sense that the u.s. is having to pay attention. there have already been repeated statements from the state department calling this reckless, calling it dangerous, saying that it deeply destabilizes implications for the region. statements have been coming from the embassy in japan, so there is the sense that if it was a tension that kim jong un was looking for, perhaps this is the one that it. >> nbc janis mackey frayer in beijing, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. and still ahead, $55 million and counting, that is the cost of a governor's race in one battleground state. we'll tell you where. plus a troubling admission from an elections supervisor in georgia, just weeks away from voters heading to the polls for the midterms. "morning joe" is coming right back. the midterms "morning joe" is coming right back

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it's four minutes before the top of the hour, time now for a quick look at the headlines across the country, in georgia, the "atlanta journal constitution" is looking at upcoming midterms and how election officials across the state, one said we're spending a lot of time putting out fires instead of doing what needs to be done. >> i know an election supervisor in florida who spends too much of his time chasing down conspiracy theories that people have. so again, the basics aren't able to get done as efficiently as

before because of all the conspiracy theories and the lies that are being churned up by donald trump and his supporters. >> to new york where the "post standard" reports on school districts near syracuse adding more armed police, including some elementary schools for the first time. dozens of new positions were created in an effort to address safety concerns among parents, staff and students. school officials say the move is in part a response to the elementary school shooting in uvalde, texas, earlier this year. let's go to illinois where the ”chicago tribune”'s top story focuses on mayor lori fight -- lightfoot, no property tax hike. the moves are aimed at addressing top voter concerns ahead of next year's election. and in wisconsin, the

state's governor's race there has become the most expensive gubernatorial campaign in the country. >> in wisconsin. >> polls have shown incumbent governor tony evers and his republican challenger neck in neck. the two sides have spent $55 million since the august primary. and coming up, former president trump goes after the top republican in congress and his wife with violent and racist language. and once again, republican congresswoman liz cheney is saying what most people in her party won't. we'll have her comments next. we're back in two minutes. in t. next is the new great garlic. the tender rotisserie style chicken is sublime and the roasted garlic aioli adds a lovely pecan flavor. man, the second retirement really changed you. the new subway series. what's your pick?

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rebuild. >> very calming, dignified. >> and being there for them. hurricane fiona was terrible. >> i think that was important. >> that was president biden in puerto rico yesterday in the wake of the devastation from hurricane ian. also fiona. which hit first two weeks before, and let's compare that to former president donald trump when he visited the island in the wake of hurricane maria in 2017. >> i hate to tell you, puerto rico, but you've thrown our budget a little bit out of whack because we spent a lot of money on puerto rico, that's fine. we've saved a lot of lives. and that's him tossing paper towels into the crowd. >> you get a paper towel, you get a paper towel. >> just turn the page, america. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, october 4th. >> unique. >> jonathan lemire is still with us, and joining the

conversation, pulitzer prize winning columnist at "the washington post," eugene robinson and former white house press secretary and now msnbc host and welcome, as an msnbc host, to "morning joe." >> thank you. good to be here. >> jen psaki. >> good to be here, mika. >> yeah, really good to have you. we've got a lot to get to this hour. yesterday we told you all of former president trump's latest incendiary attack against senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. in a post on his truth social web site on friday, trump criticized mcconnell for supporting legislation sponsored by democrats, suggesting he had a quote death wish. mcconnell had voted in favor of government funding that was set to run out on friday night. the former president also went on to mock mcconnell's wife, elaine chao in racist terms. we also showed you the response from senator rick scott, the campaign chair for the senate republicans, when he was asked about those comments from trump.

here again, senator scott, equivocating, followed by republican congresswoman liz cheney with words senator scott couldn't seem to find. >> trump said quote he has a death wish for supporting democratic sponsored bills, he also mocked mcconnell's wife and his own former transportation secretary elaine chao as china loving and cocoa chao. you're a member of the senate gop leadership, are you okay with this? >> i can never respond to why anybody says what they say. the president likes to give people nicknames. you can ask him how he came up with the nickname. i'm sure he has a nickname for me. i don't condone violence, and i hope no one else condones violence. >> nicknames are one thing, but this appears racist. is that okay? >> it's never ever okay to be a

racist. you know, i think you always have to be careful, you know, if you're in the public eye how you say things. >> i think that we saw on january 6th that words matter. we have to recognize that in the world in which we're living today, political violence increasingly is becoming part of our politics, and it cannot be that way, and we all have to be responsible for our words. you know, when you see former president trump just in the last 24 hours suggesting in a pretty thinly veiled way using words that could well cause violence against the republican leader of the senate saying he has a death wish, and then, you know,

launching an absolutely despicable racist attack against secretary chao, leader mcconnell's wife, and then you watch the fact that nobody in my party will say that's unacceptable and everybody ought to be asked whether or not that's acceptable and everybody ought to be able to say no, that is not acceptable. they ought to be required to say that. but i think that we've come to accept a level of venom in our politics that is very dangerous. >> you know, willie, when you're asked a question, are you okay with this, the answer is no, you're not okay with this. you're not okay with racist language. you're not okay with if you're a united states senator, regardless of what party you're in, you're not okay with racist language or language that any law enforcement will tell you will increase the number of death threats, will increase the

number of concerns that security around mitch mcconnell and his family are going to have. we've seen it when he attacks members of the democratic party. we have seen it when he attacks members of the media. we've seen it when he attacks fbi agents and members of the fbi. we're seeing it here when he attacks republicans. every republican senator understands that he just increased the risk, safety risk for the republican senate leader, and rick scott, and i would assume other republicans when asked can't just say that basically are you okay with this. they just can't say no. >> can you think of an easier question to answer than are you okay with a racist attack and still you get these mealy mouthed answers. it's just, it really is, it remains incredible to watch now what we know is the routine. donald trump says something offensive or appalling or

racist, republicans are asked about it when we get a chance to even ask a republican a question. they go, well, they i equivalent -- and then we roll a bite of liz cheney and adam kinzinger, the two republicans that will state the obvious in a moment like this. eugene robinson, it should be shocking. i guess it's not anymore. on a simple question, not even when there's gray area. donald trump placing a death wish on the leader of your party, mitch mcconnell, a friend of yours who you've worked with for decades, long before you knew donald trump and makes a racist attack on his wife who also happens to be a former cabinet official in the trump administration, and they can't condemn it, they won't condemn it, except for, here we go again, liz cheney. >> and i'm sure if you asked

adam kinzinger, he would condemn it full stop. that's it. you're absolutely right. i think of mcconnell's colleagues this the senate, his republican colleagues in the senate who have known him, who have fought battles with him, who have had victories and defeats with him over the years, and none of them, not one of them will stand up and say, this is despicable. this is unacceptable and, you know, are you okay with it, and i'm not okay with this. they won't say that, and it's just fear. it's fear of donald trump. they're still afraid of this former president down in mar-a-lago because they're afraid he will take their base away. and he will take their job away if he turns against them. it is the most despicable play of cravenness, i think i've ever

seen in my professional life. but it goes on and on and on. >> you know, jen, people may be saying why are you still shocked about this. let's talk about the progression. first he was attacking democrats when he was president. they would show up on kill lists of his supporters. then he'd take media members who would show up on kill lists of his supporters. we saw recently him targeting the fbi by releasing -- by attacking the fbi and then doing everything he could to have their names released which of course put their lives this danger. and is something that the head of the fbi, a trump appointed fbi director said, and now why are we still talking about it, because now he's not just attacking any republican, he's attacking the top republican in

washington, d.c. trump's in mar-a-lago. he lost. he lost the senate, the house, the white house. he was responsible for all of that. but the top ranking republican in washington, d.c., is now -- is now in more danger today than he was a couple of days ago because of donald trump, and nobody can speak out against it in the republican senate. >> unquestionably. we're talking about it because this shouldn't be normal, and shouldn't be normalized, right, and it's only gotten worse as we have been talking about among us here. over the last couple of years. i mean i will tell you personally that when i was in the white house i was not an elected official. i certainly wasn't a leader in the senate but i got many threats to my cell phone, to my home address, to mail, names of my kids, you know, with specifics. it's really scary, and if we don't talk about it, we're normalizing it.

and what is scary is the silence. it's so deafening, from so many members o. republican party right now who are afraid, i mean, they're fearful of losing their jobs. that's what they're fearful of, so their ambition is overriding everything else, and that is a sad state of affairs in washington right now. >> that state of affairs may be getting sadder. willie and gene mentioned the two republicans who would speak out against this, liz cheney and adam kinzinger, as of january, neither will be in congress. cheney was defeated soundly in her primary. who does step up. what republican might step up? occasionally it's mitt romney, other than that, we're short on names. there's no sense here that as long as donald trump still maintains his vice like drip on the republican party that anyone will dare defy him. this will continue. it could get worse. >> and the threats against members of congress have skyrocketed. the costs for some members of

congress to protect themselves, absolutely skyrocketed, and so often it's connected with donald trump. and again, targeting not just democrats, not just members of the media, but republicans. >> and the process of desensetization that is happening in our country, especially among republicans who don't know the difference anymore between right and wrong, and in some of theirs candidates now, it's showing. what they stand for, what the base wants but the hypocrisy comes through, and nobody seems to care. >> they know the difference. they know the difference between right and wrong. it's ginni thomas saying she thinks the election was stolen. she knows the election wasn't stolen. they just choose to side with donald trump. they choose to side with power despite knowing what's right and what's wrong in this political debate. >> and that is where our

political process slowly becomes destroyed. let's read from some of the must read opinion pages. columnist hamilton nolan has a piece from the guardian entitled the democrats are purposefully boosting far right republicans. this will backfire, he writes in part, quote, democrats across the country spent millions of dollars to boost the candidacies of right-wing maga candidates in the republican primaries on the theory that those extremists would be easier to defeat in the general election. but politics is more than the next election. if you help to make the maga candidates stronger today, it is possible that will have a negative social and political consequences even if they do not win the election. the historic figures who have done the most to promote justice did not do it by deviously clever manipulations of voter data. they did it by fighting for stuff that was right, spending money to try and dupe hapless republican voters into backing

the goofiest fascist. it's not just stupid, it goes against justice, tricking people is not part of organizing. the sophisticated democratic strategies are pouring poison into the well that we all sooner or later will have to drink from. jen psaki, i'm curious what you think about that. my gut is to completely agree with this. it feels to me the democrats have a lot to run on and don't need to do this on top of what nolan was pointing out. >> mika, i think what's left out of that story and what a lot of democrats tell me when i have asked them about this, they see leadership of kevin mccarthy or mitch mcconnell to be existential to the rights of women, to the right to vote, to fundamental rights for people across the country. democrats have republicans have been playing in primaries for decades. they have been putting money in. it's true this cycle as well. if you look at new hampshire, the democrats and were trying to

boost up the moderate republican who did not win the primary because they thought he would win. this is not about morality on the republican side. this is about trying to win on both sides. that's what they're doing. it's not without risk. there's critiques that should happen here because our democracy is at risk but at the same time this is three dimensional politics, people trying to win, and democrats trying to hold on to control of at least one house of congress because they're worried about the risks to rights of people in this country. >> gene robinson, while republicans and democrats have been playing in primaries in the past, it is different now. democracy is at stake. and i agree with democrats who say democracy is at stake, so if you believe democracy is at stake, and let's take one example, and you have a republican who voted to impeach donald trump, and you pour millions of dollars in to defeat

him in a primary so a guy who believes women getting the right to vote was a disaster for the united states of america and who is an election denier, that's beyond playing with fire. some of these people could win. is that not extraordinarily reckless for democrats to do? >> well, look, what i worry about is exactly your worry that some of these people could win. you just don't know, so it is a risky strategy to pursue. it is, you know, it is being pursued and directed by people who are pretty good at politics, pretty good at reading numbers and who do look at that data, and who think this is the best way to win that seat. but that is a special case. you're talking about that grand rapids seat, and that is a

special case because it is one of the few republicans who cast a courageous vote to impeach donald trump. against a complete looney bin, and so it would have been difficult for me if i were making the decision to put that money in to that race in support of the looney bin. but i, as someone who generally supports the progressive side and worries about what republicans would do with the majority, i hope it works. i really hope it works. >> well, and the stakes have never been higher, willie, and this has happened before, but let's look at a couple of examples from a guy named ronald reagan. when reagan ran for governor in

'66, some people who supported pat brown feared reagan's opponent who was more moderate in the general election, so they poured money into reagan's campaign. he crushed pat brown. chris matthews tells the story of how when reagan won the republican primary, they had a party in the white house in 1980 because reagan was too crazy, too right wing, too much of a b list actor, the carter people thought to ever win the election. >> hillary clinton, donald trump. >> you look at hillary clinton, she goes on "saturday night live," and they're mocking donald trump saying can you believe how lucky i am to draw donald trump. it always backfires, it seems, you've got claire mccaskill and todd aiken one or two stories like that. >> that didn't work. >> those are different cases. we're literally talking about democrats supporting people who don't believe in democracy.

who don't believe in fair and free elections, who only recognize the outcome of an election if their side wins. how do you do that? how do you take that chance with american democracy? >> be careful what you wish for. it may be a mixed bag. some of the candidates they supported may be so extreme they'll lose and that's definitely true in some cases, but some of these races are awfully close, and jen psaki, we have been talking about herschel walker how uniquely terrible a candidate he is with his specific contradictions we see in the light of day with his pro life, claims of being pro life and pro family and all of these accusations. dr. oz, not a great candidate, getting awfully close to fetterman in pennsylvania. blake masters hanging around. the rnc has distanced themselves from some of the gubernatorial candidates. from the point of view of republicans, from the point of view of the white house, how are

they looking at this fall? obviously the house is going to be an up hill climb, which means you have to win the senate. >> yeah. >> look, i think they feel better about the senate as most democrats i talked to do. but to your point, there are race where is you look at these candidates, and it's like mind bending how it's possible that herschel walker or dr. oz could be very much in the running but they are, and it's important for us sitting in washington or new york to remember that in pennsylvania, in georgia, in nevada, people are voting around a range of issues and in georgia, you look at herschel walker, the story that has come out overnight about the possibility. i know it hasn't been confirmed that he had funded an abortion for his girlfriend which he's denying. the hypocrisy means he is okay with his partner having an abortion, but nobody else, the tens of thousands of women can't do it. but these are divided states.

they're purple states. they are sometimes reld leaning -- red leaning states saz as is georgia. the senate feels better i think to the white house and officials i've spoken there, and certainly to democrats, the house is very much an up hill climb. it's a narrow gap and because of the seats that have been lost over the last couple of cycles, but it is a state by state play here, and it really could come down to one race, which is going to be nail biting until the end of this. >> jonathan lemire, what's their plans over the next five, six weeks. >> they have been using president biden in an interesting way where he has gone on the road some. he's not able to this week because he's doing the hurricanes, puerto rico and florida, but it's up to the individual candidates whether they think biden is useful in

that district or state or not. we have seen him deployed to the great lakes states, pennsylvania, michigan, ohio, spent a lot of time there. aides have been using him lately delivering 30,000 foot attacks, painting republicans as extreme, doing it largely from the white house or national events. he's on the road less. he's able to used his increased popularity. we have seen democrats put together a bunch of wins over the summer and early fall. there's some momentum there, but they're being judicious. the other way they're using him, raising money. they have increased a lot of fundraisers in recent weeks. he has another one coming up later this week. that's useful for democrats as they hang on to one house of congress. >> host on msnbc, jen psaki, thank you, great to have you on "morning joe." and still ahead on "morning joe," iran's supreme leader

addresses the growing unrest in his country. as human rights groups report more than 130 people have been killed so far in the protests. we'll have a report from iran. plus, ukrainian troops have been making major gains in the eastern part of their country and taking back land from russia, in the south as well. looich to ukraine. day two of the highest profile trial related to january 6th to date. the seditious conspiracy charges against the founder and other members of the oath keepers. we'll have a report from a reporter who has been inside the courtroom, and up next, we'll go live to florida as the death toll from hurricane ian has now surpassed 100 people. you're watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. u're watchi" we'll beig rht back. ♪♪ subway's drafting 12 new subs for the all-new subway series menu the new monster has juicy steak and crispy bacon. but what about the new boss? it looks so good it makes me hangry!

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back at 7:27 here on the east coast, rescue efforts are

ongoing in florida this morning. six days after hurricane ian tore through the state. joining us now live from fort myers beach is nbc news correspondent sam brock. good morning, what does it look like there today? >> reporter: devastating, still, willie, half the deaths so far, 106 confirmed deaths are hero in lee county in fort myers beach, 3,500 structures, all of them for the most part damaged or destroyed, complicating the ongoing search and rescue efforts as folks have to peel away the rubble. boats jumbled like toys, more evidence as to why so many are asking whether those evacuation orders came early enough. in between the sparsely populated homes on fort myers beach are rows and rows of ripped up lots. some wiped clean of any trace of life. >> to the rescue. it's the first ground level look at this island that took some of the worst that ian had to offer.

the destructive hurricane claiming more than 100 lives, half here in lee county. on monday, search and rescue crews let us follow their frantic search for survivors and victims. >> where does this rank for you, is this comparable to a katrina? >> absolutely. >> more than a thousand people taking part in a massive rescue effort. >> that requires very extensive tedious, very slow methodical searching. >> as this morning questions persist about whether the call for evacuations here in lee county came soon enough. by last monday at 5:00 p.m., the national hurricane center warned areas in lee county were in danger of life threatening storm surge, the county didn't start ordering evacuations until the next morning. jeff spots who has lived here for 40 years and survived the storm has a different take. >> do you feel like the government gave adequate notification for mandatory evacuations. >> oh, yeah. all over the radio, i mean, i

didn't leave because i'm dumb. >> reporter: florida's governor also dismissing the monday morning quarterbacking. >> we should be focusing on lifting people up and stop incessantly talking and trying to cast aspersions. >> amid the tears. >> >> my mom was supposed to retire here and spend the rest of her life and be happy. >> reporter: crews have restored electricity to 2 million customers. the remaining 400,000 expected to get it back by friday. >> between the storm hardening and investments in smart grid technology, we have significantly shortened the amount of restoration time. >> reporter: the help coming from above as well. lieutenant nate jones, a 29-year-old u.s. coast guard pilot was one of the first on scene after the storm came ashore. his team rescuing ten people and six pets. jones following in the footsteps of his own father, bruce jones

who helped rescue thousands of survivors during katrina. >> this is what we train for. this is why we joined. and when catastrophe strikes, we are racing to the call and ready to do our jobs. >> reporter: to the evacuation order decision, interesting bedfellow, we heard the same thing from lee county officials, governor desantis, and fema administrator saying 72 hours out of landfall, the fort myers area was not in the cone. 48 hours out, it was in the periphery and the last 24 hours, we saw the emergency orders. willie, back to you. >> it did take that turn south. boy, those pictures are breathtaking. you think you've seen it all and then you see something else. sam, thank you so much for bringing them to us. we appreciate it. gene, you're writing about hurricane ian, after ian, florida can't rebuild the same way. it can be better. we were talking to someone whose job is to assess the damage. i asked him, what should we do

better. what should we be thinking about looking forward long-term, and he said, well, we have to think about whether or not it makes sense to rebuild in these places because we know big, strong hurricanes are coming again, and that's the point you make in your piece. >> yeah, we know they're coming again. we know that because of climate change, these storms are bigger and wetter and slower moving, and more destructive. and this is like not debatable. i mean, this is happening. and so what used to be a 500-year storm is going to happen a lot more frequently than that. and so these, you know, florida is vulnerable. and florida has recognized this in the past. after hurricane andrew in 1992, that killed 65 people and wiped

out a big chunk of miami, and florida, the state building code that was much tougher and that really had an impact, and had an impact in this storm, and in protecting at least against wind damage. but not so much against the storm surge, which is, after all, really the killer in hurricanes. and so that's the sort of thing that florida needs to look forward to as we talk about rebuilding southwest florida. does it make sense to have developments that are crisscrossed by canals that sort of invite storm surge into the heart of the community, like cape coral. does it make sense to build on those barrier islands again. look at fort myers beach, the town which was on the barrier island of estero island, it is wiped off the map. it does not exist anymore.

and so does it make sense to build that same town in that same place in that same way, even with tougher building codes or do we need to take a look at that kind of development, and, you know, these are big, big questions because people want to live in these beautiful places. i totally get that. florida is beautiful. but, these storms are going to happen, and we're going to have to take some measures and probably going beyond building codes, but deciding where we rebuild, if we're going to, you know, just to go forward, just to deal with the reality of the world that we live in now. >> yeah, really tough questions, gene, thank you. and coming up, we're going to continue our week long look at some of the little known aspects of the civil rights movement, how the marches were meticulously planned, including how the organizers made sure

spies and other provocateurs were not able to infiltrate their plans. that is next when "morning joe" returns. plans. that is next when "morning joe" returns. i'd like to thank our sponsor liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. president biden has now signed the inflation reduction act into law. ok, so what exactly does it mean for you? out of pocket costs for drugs will be capped. for seniors, insulin will be just $35. families will save $2,400 on health care premiums. energy costs, down an average of $1,800 a year for families. and it's paid for by making the biggest corporations pay what they owe. president biden's bill doesn't fix everything,

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civil rights movement, josea williams reacting to the death of martin luther king jr. king and williams were two of the first leaders at the southern christian leadership conference, a civil rights organization which among other things taught recruits how to effectively protest in a nonviolent manner. joining us now, pulitzer prize winning journalist tom ricks. tom is back with us for day two of his "morning joe" book residency. his book is officially out today entitled "waging a good war," a military history of the civil rights movement, 1954-1968. also with us this morning for this conversation is member of the editorial advisory board at washington monthly magazine, deborah dickerson. she reviewed tom's book in a recent piece entitled "how to get from bravery to victory", and tom, today we look at the supreme discipline and organization of the movement.

can you tell us about that. >> sure. they were inside the movement. they knew they needed discipline and organization. i have found that the reader reaction to my book has been surprised that the preparation was so meticulous that it sometimes was weeks, months and even in a couple of cases a couple of years. how do they carry out a demonstration, what message do they want to send, what kind of training will people need to carry out a demonstration and successfully maintain confrontational nonviolence. it's a really difficult, hard approach to carry out in order to do it. people really had to work hard, but people who did it, people like seth shuttleworth, these are people i would like to see on postage stamps frankly. >> i'm curious, what struck you about what they were able to do

in this movement, and how they did it, and of course you can take it to tom, if you would like. >> well, this is a subject that's always been near and dear to my heart. and i, you know, i consider myself like an armed chair historian of the movement because, you know, i have the survivor's guilt of not having been old enough to participate and, but, you know, i reap all the benefits, so it's the subject that has always fascinated me, and i'm always frustrated by modern movements because they constantly invoke the movement but they don't use its methods, and so tom's book was just such a -- so necessary. i was very advised with the occupied movement and i kept trying to get them to listen to how they did it. you want to replicate what they did, this is how they did it. it was about discipline. it was about planning. it was about commitment.

it was about, you know, adhering to something larger than yourself. i mean, these kids would write their eulogies before they went out on these missions, and trying to get the people in modern times to understand what it takes to do what they did, you know, i never did the math, but tom, it wasn't until your book i realized it was only about 13 years, and they accomplished so much. >> other books tell you what the civil rights movement did. this book tells you how they did it. >> gene robinson. >> give us a couple of mini profiles of people who jumped out at you, who perhaps are not yet on postage stamps but ought to be. tell us who they were, and what they did? >> thank you. i love these people. fred shuttlesworth, he's a minister in birmingham. originally a moon shiner.

almost in some ways the philosophical opposite of martin luther king. he's aggressive. he's tough. he's kind of the church militant before people were using the word militant. he gets called in by birmingham's white power structure, and they say we're really worried, martin luther king is coming to town, how do we stop it. shuttlesworth leans forward and says, you know, i have been bombed twice in this town. none of you ever gave me a phone call. but now, now, you want to talk to me. two other guys, bob moses and amsey moore, these are people who went in alone into the toughest, hardest parts of mississippi and somehow survived working alone and then later running organizations up. it really strikes me, especially the mississippi people, they cracked a totalitarian system in

mississippi. they got black people to be able to finally register and vote and in 1968, blacks voted in great numbers in mississippi. one of the people who got elected soon thereafter was a young man named bennie thompson, went on to become mayor, and now the january 6th committee, which is doing a lot of truth telling at what happened in the capitol invasion. i draw a direct line from freedom summer 1964 to the january 6th committee. thank you, bob moses. thank you, amsey moore, thank you fanny lou hamer, the heroes who gave us someone like bennie thompson playing the role he's playing today. >> in the book you discussed the role that a nonviolent philosophy played in the movement and you write in part this, the civil rights movement paid close attention to training. it was in lectures, discussions, and role-playing sessions that

the philosophy of nonviolence was imparted. those sessions prepared new volunteers for the ugly violence many would endure, and also made them familiar with the overall strategy of the movement. done right, a thoughtful training program also will identify potential new leaders. the soldiers who learned fast, show persistence and self-discipline and are able to help others. the nashville civil rights movement is particularly striking for its development of leaders. out of its initial install group of 40 or 50 students drew a cadre of people who would become, then in the birmingham marches and finally in selma. when you look at what he has written about the extent of the training, the detail, the shared

goals, the shared values, the shared commitment, it almost makes sense that so much could happen in just 13 years. >> the way it's laid out, i thought that i knew something about the movement. but the way tom lays this out from places like the highlander school, they basically had structures that so closely mimic the military, things like squadron officers and just the people going to india to actually study with gandhi, although many had already done it before the movement, really, it's so humbling to -- in the campaign for nashville, i'm forgetting -- lawson, he sent students in the waves of 100 today, then 200, then 300, 400.

can anybody name an instance where the protesters participated in violence. i've read all the books. i really can't find hardly any because of the discipline and because, just like in a war, you can't just show up and say i want to fight, let me join the battlefield. you have to show up for training. and rather than throw bodies out there, no, we're not going to do that, until they have been trained and more importantly vetted. the people were not allowed to participate. >> yeah, sorry, the sound with the zoom is tough. top member of the editorial advisory board at washington monthly magazine, debra dickerson, thank you for joining us, and of course pulitzer prize winning journalist tom ricks, thank you. the new book "waging a good war," a military history of the civil rights movement 1954-1968, and we will continue the conversation with his "morning

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the hour. going to be one of those days in new york city. it's ugly outside. this morning, new details from a year-long independent investigation which revealed emotional and verbal abuse along with sexual misconduct within the women's national soccer league. anne thompson has more. >> reporter: this morning, a damaging look behind the scenes of the women's national soccer league.

investigators conducting more than 200 interviews and spoke with over 100 current and former wsl and national team players. according to the report, teams and leagues failed to respond appropriately when confronted with player reports and evidence of abuse. >> we're talking about sustained and manipulaive conduct that was all about power. >> reporter: sally yates led the independent investigation commissioned by u.s. soccer last year after multiple reports described allegations of abuse by nbsl coaches. they call it systemic, how widespread was this. >> the barriers were not there, thus it allowed a systemic problem to flourish for years. >> reporter: the athletic first breaking the report of past players accusing former coach paul riley of sexual and verbal

abuse. the allegations created an uproar across the league, including player protests during games and riley's ultimate firing. mona shimm told her story on "today" last year. >> it is so prevalent. it's not just this team, this coach. it's across the league. it's across the sport. >> reporter: the court also alleges the systemic abuse in women's soccer is not just at the professional level. >> verbal and particularly emotional use is common in youth soccer. >> reporter: in the wake of the alarming report, u.s. soccer says it is taking immediate action. the federation's president called the findings heartbreaking and deeply troubling. we'll see what they do with those findings. coach paul riley has denied those accusations, by the way. today is day two of the trial of members of the oath keepers charged with seditious conspiracy for their role in the

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it's the top of the third hour of "morning joe." welcome back. it's tuesday, october 4th. we're going to go live to the federal courthouse in washington, d.c. for the first full day of testimony in the sedition trial against the founder and four other members of the far-right militia group,

the oath keepers. we'll tell you what we learned from yesterday's opening statements. and from georgia, new allegations against republican senate nominee, herschel walker. claims that the pro-life conservative paid for a girlfriend's abortion along with sharp new comments from his son. a conservative influencer. can the walker campaign weather another crisis? but we begin this hour in ukraine where ukraine forces are making major breakthroughs on the battlefield. let's bring in erin mclaughlin live in kharkiv. >> hey there. a spokesperson for the kremlin says today it's likely vladimir putin will sign into law the illegal annexation of four ukrainian territories, this as president zelenskyy says they continue to make gains on the battlefield. >> reporter: ukrainian forces say they're making stunning

gains to the south, liberating two territories in the occupied kherson region. just days after a victory in the eastern town of lamont, hoisting the ukrainian flag and tearing signs down from areas where days ago russian president putin declared the ukrainian territory would be russia's forever. a long way to break through in a bloody war that's potentially entering a new phase. while liberated areas have been devastated. this man says a bomb blew a 30-foot hole in his backyard. how did you survive? i don't know, he says. russian state tv bluntly warning its viewers we should not be expecting good news. and airing this video of draftees training before heading to ukraine. around half of the soldiers conscripted in the region now being sent home after being deemed unfit, according to a russian official. the leader of chechnya releasing

this footage, claiming to show his teenage sons, including his 14-year-old, preparing for war. days after the putin ally called for low-yield nuclear weapons on the battlefield. and in a rare admission, russia's defense ministry pointing to ukraine's superior -- that's the word they used -- superior tank units to the south for the reason why ukrainian forces have been able to break through russian defenses down there. >> wow. what a shifting dynamic. erin mclaughlin, thank you very much. let's bring in the president and founder of the eurasia group, ian bremmer. >> in many cases, these forces are panicking. they're leaving their tanks. they don't have transport. they're operational and running

away. they're stealing local ukrainian cars to get out. they're leaving a lot of their colleagues behind. those who remain understand they're being left and the morale is abysmal. this is the reason why without a plan at all, putin decided to suddenly call up these 300,000 minimum troops in a mobilization and they're trying without any training and without adequate equipment to get them to the front lines as quickly as possible to start defending some of this territory. right now, the ukrainians are taking quite a bit back. >> well, obviously with no training, we heard maybe one-day training, no training for a lot of these troops, their situation is going to almost -- will very likely end up worse than what we've seen over the past six to nine months. i'm curious, look around the corner then, let's say the russian army continues its collapse, what's next?

>> one of the reasons why the white house has been warning the russian government and putin directly about the use of weapons of mass destruction, particularly nuclear weapons, they understand there are no good military options left for putin. he's becoming desperate. in a position of desperation, that's something he would potentially consider. it's a last-ditch option, but something that's possible. in the nearer term, we're seeing all the remaining energy the russians are supplying into europe are being cut off. we saw over the weekend, no more gas from gazprom to italy. we saw a week ago, nord stream 1 and 2 pipelines suddenly blown up. the belief on the part of nato members, there is no hard evidence of this, the russians were behind the sabotage. there are still a couple pipelines, one through ukraine, one going to turkey that provides some energy to europe. the expectation is those will be shut down in coming weeks. this is only going to get harder

economically for europe. again, so far, the europeans, the americans, the canadians, all of the allies have held together incredibly tightly in response to russian escalation. and despite the hardship coming this winter, no one believes that's about to change. >> we went through some of the limited options putin has. let's talk about where the ukrainians are. counteroffensive seems like they're picking off new towns in the south, pressing their advantage. they're aware that a cold winter is coming, not just going to test the european allies but freeze the battlefield in place. how far can or should ukrainians go? >> it looks like kherson, which is this town to the north of crimea and critically the one that provides all of the infrastructure, the water to crimea, one of putin's core demands that he's been making when he's talking privately to people saying the shanghai cooperation, what would it take to end the war?

he said we have to provide that support, that supply line to crimea. the ukrainians are likely to take that. that's already been formally annexed by the russians, even though they don't have full control of it. i've never seen an annexation of a territory that the country doesn't control before, but that means putin will have to go back to his own people and somehow express the fact that they have lost russian territory. what are they going to do in response to that? prepare to accept that as a loss? will they continue to throw more and more russian troops into a meat grinder, 300,000 can become 500,000, can become a million. there's no limitation in the terms of the mobilization he's drawn up. or would he consider taking escalatory measures including against nato. the thing that worries me, if you watch russian state media and the fact they're admitting to the losses they're now taking, they're talking not fighting ukraine, they're fighting these super ukrainians because it's all nato.

they're fighting nato, fighting nato intelligence, troops and training. so the potential that the russians would be willing to start lashing out through cyberattacks, through potential drone strikes or missile strikes against even some of the military depots in poland, that becomes a much more real possibility. so over the coming months, i think we talk less about russia versus ukraine and more about the potential of this war widening. >> ian, putin has so isolated himself with this war, now even the remaining friends he has on the world stage, president xi of china, prime minister modi of india have condemned him privately or in public. he heard all that a couple weeks ago and put his foot on the gas effectively. does that mean he's not listening to anyone else? he's a man alone right now? >> he's close to a man alone right now. even belarus, which is sort of

the little brother of the russians on the global stage has declined to recognize the annexed territories that russia -- that putin has just enshrined into law. i wouldn't say that the chinese and indian leaders have condemned putin, but they have said this war is a disaster, and they want it over. in response to that, you're exactly right. putin stepped on the gas. he's basically said, no, i'll escalate. this has been the worst week in terms of escalation of the war since it started on february 24th. and the most disturbing thing is that it comes on the back of the greatest direct pressure from the only remaining important friends that putin has on the global stage, india, china, turkey, kazakhstan. and so, yes. we're finding that putin is increasingly a man, a country that is becoming a pariah on the

global stage. back on february 4th, when he was talking with xi jinping, he was the most important part of china in the global stage. in seven short months he's gone from that to becoming a global iran, a rogue state, that is an antagonist to everybody. >> it's been two weeks of protests in iran after the 22-year-old woman died in the custody of the country's morality police. >> reporter: this morning concern over renewed clashes in iran's universities after two weeks of unrest and deadly protests sweeping across the country. on monday, iran's top technology university was shuttered following an hours-long standoff between the students and the police. amnesty international denouncing police for violently attacking

and arbitrarily arresting university students. the unrest ignited by the death of a young woman in the custody of iran's morality police. flaring up for a third week despite government efforts to crack down. campuses now a hot bed of dissent. it's not just college campuses, resistance in high schools, too. footage shared by the new york-based group shows iranian girls removing their hijab while chanting from their schools. a stunning act of defiance and another sign of young women leading the way in these historic protests. addressing the latest violence for the first time, iran's supreme leader expressed support to the security forces and condemned the riots on monday calling them a bitter incident and accusing the united states and israel, iran's arch

adversaries, of orchestrating the disturbances. the latest harsh crackdown drawing widespread international condemnation. president biden issuing a statement overnight saying i remain gravely concerned about the reports of the intensifying violent crackdown on peaceful protesters in iran, including students and women who are demanding their equal rights and basic human dignity. elsewhere, the protests that engulfed the country following the arrest and death of the 22-year-old, subsiding over the last week due to the massive security presence, arrests and internet blackouts. under ten cities saw running battles with riot police while women across iran defy the hijab with their heads uncovered. >> ian, it's a remarkable story, a remarkable uprising by women, especially in iran.

how do you put these protests coming into context compared to 2009 with the green movement, some of the protests we saw in 2019, 2020? are these protests more of a challenge to this regime that has had almost total control since 1979? >> they're more of a challenge in the since that they're grassroots. they're leaderless. it's not like you can go and round up a few troublemakers and that's going to end it. this has happened kind of organically in response to the incredible outrage of young and old women across the country because this innocent woman was abused and killed by the religious police. that's very hard to suddenly just end a movement that has that kind of gravitational pull. on the other hand, it reflects less of a direct threat to the regime because there are not any leaders who are trying to take anything over. what they want are rights.

they want reforms. the issue will be whether or not the iranian government is prepared to provide structural change in the rules by which a relatively socially liberal population is governed. this is not a religiously conservative group of young people like in saudi arabia for example, some of whom are interested in some of the laws. in iran, you have a secular society that has been governed over by the religious elite. those tensions are bubbling over. >> so, we want to move to venezuela now. a relative of two of the americans freed in a prisoner swap with venezuela over the weekend is blasting a republican lawmaker for his comments about the exchange. in an interview yesterday, the daughter of one of the freed men criticized senator marco rubio of florida for questioning the biden administration's decision to bring her father, her uncle

and five other men home. here's what the senator had to say on sunday followed by her comments yesterday. >> every time you do one of these deals, and i wanted these people released as much as anybody, every time you do this, now others know, i can take americans and hold them. it's a huge win for maduro, it puts americans all over the world now in danger. >> i'm disappointed that a leader in our country is perpetuaing this myth that getting our people home actually puts americans at risk. you know what i would ask senator rubio is you've supported getting them home, you have done absolutely nothing for me or my family or most of these men and any of the families could tell you that. he even had a constituent from his state that was released and i would ask what did you do for his family and how have you been supporting them and have you checked in on them instead of

pandering to your constituency? i find his comments unpatriotic and unhelpful. >> jonathan lemire, it's staggering that you have a republican senator that you have any senator being critical of bringing hostages home who have been away for years. also, incredible that he is saying that he wanted them home and didn't do anything while these americans were being held hostage. what is the message if you're traveling overseas and held hostage, you will rot in jail? if the united states does anything to try to get you home, that's a sign of weakness? you talk about hyper partisanship, the fact that you have a republican senator that did nothing while these americans were being held

prisoner, being held hostage in venezuela, did nothing. and then was critical when they were freed shows you just how twisted the hyper-partisanship in washington has made some members, even of the united states senate. >> yeah. white house aides last night dismissed the senator's comments as hyper-partisanship and an attempt to achieve points when american lives were at stake. this also comes at a moment where prisoner prisoners are moving to the forefront in the biden foreign policy. we had a number of deals in recent days. it's put in the spotlight again the case of brittney griner. that she now has a chance to appeal her sentence, that's being held later this month. there are negotiations still ongoing for this arms dealer, maybe more, russia is being resistant to this point. talk to us about whether you see a chance for a deal here and the biden policy at large on prisoners. >> all three of the countries we

mentioned, venezuela, iran, and then the griner deal potentially for viktor bout, this notorious arms dealer from years ago, these are all principle adversaries of the united states. we don't like these regimes. even in the circumstance when we talk about the existence of american citizens being unjustly held, we try our best to get them out. if that means we're prepared to actually let some of their citizens go in a deal, that's been consistent u.s. policy for a long time. this is not a democrat or republican thing. it's unfortunate that marco rubio is scoring a point on this. i agree that's increaingly where our divided and dysfunctional politics in the united states is, but we have nothing but contempt for these regimes, and we work very, very hard to get these americans back to their families.

>> ian bremmer, thank you very much for being on. "the power of crisis: how three threats and our response will change the world." still ahead, the trial of five oath keepers including the group's founder will resume in a washington, d.c. courthouse. we'll tell you what the government says about the weapons that the group had standing by. we'll get a live report on what we can expect today. later, are democrats a long way from hope and change? many of their campaign messages have dark warnings ahead of the midterms. we'll explain. plus, one of the largest banks in the world is having serious problems. it has some analysts speculating that we could be watching the start of a lehman brothers style collapse. andrew ross sorkin joins us with more insight on that. and up next, the latest on recovery efforts in florida which are becoming more dire by

the day. the aftermath of the storm is raising more questions about evacuation orders in some of the the hardest hit areas. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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we are still learning this morning the toll of hurricane ian after at least 100 people are now confirmed dead in florida. search and rescue crews continue to sift through the rubble in one of the hardest hit communities looking for life. sam brock has the latest. >> reporter: a gut wrenching look at fort myers beach at the ground level for the first time since hurricane ian made landfall. >> no structure on this island has gone unscathed. >> reporter: our cameras, the first to tour what is now just frames of homes, unrecognizable

lots with nothing left except air-conditioning units, toilets and rubble. the international association of firefighters president, edward kelly, leading us through the wreckage. >> reporter: there are search and rescue efforts on the ground, comprised of hundreds of firefighters. searching 3,500 properties just in fort myers beach. how long do you think that's going to go on for? >> it's a common question and a lot of people want to know a timeframe. unfortunately, timeframes are very dynamic, they're fluid. >> reporter: as you look at the thousands of properties on fort myers island, they run the gamut are from homes that look like they're still standing to piles of rubble that have to be sifted through layer by layer to other properties that look structurally unsafe. all require a different approach and delicacy to go through. >> research and rescue, anybody here? >> reporter: for homes at risk of collapse, the process can take hours to protect anybody that could still be inside as well as the emergency responders. >> we don't want to free more victims, and more victims from

the storm and more victims from the rest of this. >> reporter: criticism is growing around when lee officials called for the evacuations. the national hurricane center cited life threatening storm surge for fort myers at 5:00 p.m. monday. on tuesday morning, the first mandatory orders were issued and expanded throughout the day. >> i think it was a little late. it should have been sometime monday. it's such a low lying area, and even though it was hit in tampa. tampa is right there. >> it's their whole lives. people don't want to leave their valuables behind. >> reporter: in the midst of the dark chapter, the chairman and ceo of florida power and light, says recent changes to the infrastructure are helping to expedite repairs. >> we believe we will be done with anybody who can accept power, and understand that thousands of structures will not be able to accept power by the close of business on friday. >> reporter: a glimmer of light for a community stunned by so much loss. >> this is my mother's house, this is my whole life. my mom was supposed to retire

here and spend the rest of her life and be happy and now we have nothing. >> nbc's sam brock with that report. and we're going to go live to florida's hardest-hit community just ahead. our coverage will continue on that. willie. also ahead, we'll go live to washington where the leader of the oath keepers and other members of that extremist group face charges of seditious conspiracy on the january 6th attack on the capitol. ryan reilly is outside the courthouse and joins our conversation when "morning joe" comes right back. " comes right back it's the subway series menu. 12 irresistible subs. the most epic sandwich roster ever created. ♪♪

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we have a new development to report in morning in the mar-a-lago documents case. the "washington post" reports former president trump asked one of his lawyers in early 2022 to tell the national archives that trump had returned all materials requested by the agency. but that lawyer, alex cannon, declined to do so because he was not sure if that claim was true. >> he didn't want to lie to the justice department. >> don't want to be put in that position. that's according to people familiar of the matter. let's bring in the coauthor of the report for the "washington post," jackie alemany. what more can you tell us? >> yeah, mika. what our reporting told us yesterday is that the former president trump is actually now at the center of the mishandling of improper classified documents. this story has him asking one of his lawyers to tell the national archives in early 2022 that he

had returned all of the materials requested by the agency. but that lawyer declined because he was unsure that the statement was true according to people familiar with the matter. obviously later on when the fbi actually executed the search warrant of mar-a-lago, they discovered hundreds of other documents that had yet to be retrieved after that initial january haul. we know that the former president actually wanted this lawyer to tell the archives that he had, again, handed over everything. he had suggested a certain statement, and again, this lawyer refused to do so. >> jackie, tell us a little bit more about alex cannon, this attorney who wisely decided not to follow the president's orders there. has he been interviewed by the

january 6th committee? and per his reporting, if trump is telling him to lie, that indicates obstruction, no? >> those are all very good questions and points, john. we haven't figured out the answers to the first two things. we know the doj has really been engaged in exhaustive interviews in a lot of parties involved with the mar-a-lago boxes investigation, and actually that investigation, we have been told, is further ahead than the january 6th investigation. so i would presume that it would make sense that alex cannon would have been interviewed by these investigators as many of the staff who dealt with this already have been, but that is still unclear. and with regards to january 6th, it would also seem like cannon would be a good person for them to interview as well, because cannon was the person who initially arranged for these boxes and these records to be located at

mar-a-lago. although, he did tell staffers not to go through the boxes. he was, at that time, worried that there could have been classified information in some of those boxes and he didn't want any other staffers for the former president to sort of implicate themselves in any potential wrongdoing. we also know, actually, i left this out, my first answer to mika, but this is important, that cannon initially told the archives as early as december that he thought that there could be more documents. that is key to the investigation and key to the belief from the department of justice that there were still missing documents. you've got a detail in your story we have heard before, but it's fascinating, where you say that donald trump personally packed the boxes back in january that were going to go off to the national archives, which was a tough visual to grab first of all that he's doing the work himself, but more importantly,

that he was hand sifting, the former president of the united states, through the documents and deciding which would go back and which would stay at mar-a-lago? >> yeah, thank you for reading very closely. this is true, that trump himself eventually packed all of the boxes after very reluctantly agreeing to do so. remember, the national archives and trump's lawyers were going back and forth on this as early as may. this issue, again, was flagged by lawyers in trump's white house two weeks prior to trump even leaving the white house and going down to mar-a-lago. but, again, this does put the former president at the center of all of this that he himself was packing the boxes. he was very secretive about the process. we were also told despite having staffers who live in palm beach and work very closely with him on the premise, but again, alex

cannon had also recommended that staffers try to stay out of this, and he did ultimately arrange for one staffer to be there when the national archives contractor eventually picked up the boxes in late january. but trump is really the one who knew exactly what was in those boxes. >> all right. "the washington post" jackie alemany, as always, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. coming up, another shakeup in the race for senate in georgia. herschel walker is facing new scrutiny this morning and it could have a big impact on the election. we'll explain next on "morning joe." orning joe. for more on the new boss, here's patrick mahomes. incredible - meatballs, fresh mozzarella and pepperon- oh, the meatball's out! i thought he never fumbles. the new subway series. what's your pick?

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maybe you don't have to be vampires. whoa... okay, yikes. oh sorry, i wasn't thinking. we don't really use the v word. that's kind of insensitive. we prefer day-adjacent. i'll go man-pire. a former university of georgia and nfl running back, now the republican nominee for

georgia senate, herschel walker, says he wants to completely ban abortion likening it to murder and claiming there should be no exceptions for rape, incest or even the life of the mother, but "the daily beast" is reporting this morning that walker urged a woman who asked not to be identified because of privacy concerns to have an abortion after she became pregnant with his child when they were dating in 2009. the woman said she did have the procedure and that walker reimbursed her for it. according to "the daily beast" she supported her claims with a $575 receipt from the abortion clinic, a get well card from walker, and a bank deposit receipt that included an image of a signed $700 personal check from walker. "the daily beast" independently corroborated details of the woman's claims with a close friend she told at the time and who, according to the woman and the friend, took care of her in the days after the procedure. a lawyer representing walker's campaign told the publication the story was false. walker also released a statement calling the story a lie and

threatened to sue "the daily beast" for defamation. nbc news has not yet confirmed the allegations or those documents. hours after the story broke, walker's son blasted his father's bid for a senate seat calling him a bad father, a liar and a hypocrite. in a series of tweets, christian walker wrote this, quote, every family member of herschel walker asked him not to run for office because we all knew some of his past, every single one. he decided to give us the middle finger and air out all of his dirty laundry in public while simultaneously lying about it. i'm done. he went on, i don't care about someone who has a bad past and takes accountability, but how dare you lie and act like you're some moral, christian, upright man. you've lived a life of destroying other people's lives. how dare crow. that is from herschel walker's son.

joining us now, elena schneider. good morning. what more can you tell us about these accusations from "the daily beast," who christian walker is besides being herschel walker's son because i think that's important as well, and what this means for herschel walker's campaign. many georgia republicans don't seem to mind any of the accusations we've seen come down the pike. >> look, these allegations came out less than 24 hours ago, so we're still going to see how this affects the race. in the early hours, this has had a significant impact on the race. this is one of the most important senate races across the entire country. one where herschel walker is challenging senator raphael warnock, who won this seat in the 2021 runoffs which was important in giving the democrats their 50/50 split in the senate. that's how important this race is. as you said, this is really a one-two punch for herschel walker in his race. first, we obviously saw the allegations that came out yesterday from "the daily beast" that laid out compelling evidence about an abortion that

he allegedly paid for in 2009, even though he's a candidate who said that he does not support abortions and basically in any cases, no exceptions or rape or incest. this is a clear divergence from what he says publicly, versus what he does personally. but the second more devastating blow potentially is what his son has said, christian walker. so christian walker is a tiktok influencer, a conservative gen-z who has become popular on social media and who has been supportive of his father, not so much on his social media as conservatives in georgia would like, but has generally been supportive. so, it's notable that he has come out and said that he now not only has told his father not to run but has further, you know, bringing to light accusations about his violence and his hypocrisy. sort of this really difficult one-two punch for herschel walker.

the problem, though, is as you said, he's weathered a number of controversies over the course of the summer and managed to keep the race very, very tight. and i think it's important to remember how the "access hollywood" tape, though it was shocking when it came out in 2016, ultimately did not dissuade people from voting for donald trump. and i think in some ways, the electorate in georgia is somewhat similarly dug in, but it will be fascinating to see how democrats in georgia try to use this as a way to continue to disqualify herschel walker as a candidate. coming up, ukraine pushes russian troops back towards their own border. we'll get the latest on the war there and how vladimir putin is reacting to his losses on the battlefield. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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i get to afghanistan, go to the camp for al qaeda, and they get training to the specialist in how to build a bomb.

and i start giving training for the guys. >> so taught them how to make bombs? >> yeah. teach the people how to make bombs. at that time, osama bin laden, he had a suicide list. >> suicidal list? >> yeah. >> what does this mean? >> like the ones they want to do bombing. ♪♪ >> he has a list for the guys that are ready for this. it has 200 names. after you graduate from these camps, you want to go to bomb in america, bomb in saudi arabia,

you go to anywhere, you don't give a shit. >> so you feel that you are -- >> important. very important. you're going to change the world. >> that was one of the opening moments from the documentary film which ultimately was entitled "the unredacted," which premiered at the sundance film festival earlier this year. the film follows four yemeni men held at guantanamo bay for their alleged involvement with terror groups responsible for the 9/11 attacks. they were later released, and after returning to their home country, the men were ordered to undergo intensive counseling at a newly constructed facility intended to deradicalize them. the film was met with mostly positive reviews upon its debut.

but soon after, controversy took hold. the sundance film festival would end up issuing an apology for even screening the documentary in the first place, and the film's director would find herself nearly broke. in a moment, we will speak with the filmmaker. but first, for more on the reaction to the film, we're joined by national reporter for "the new york times" michael powell. >> michael, thanks for being with us. this is a remarkable story of -- we showed the first part of their story, one of these yemeni men sat, and how they were broken through the process, how some of them survived it. it's a remarkable story. i found it to be a remarkable documentary. but the reaction to the documentary also remarkable as well. walk our viewers through it. >> yeah. it was a curious thing.

it started off as you note getting great reviews, including from, you know, frankly left liberal places like ""the guardian"" newspaper, and the worry was initially that they were going to get controversy from the right, that, you know, you're humanizing terrorists, you're -- or men accused of terrorism. in fact, the attack came very strongly from the kind of cultural and political left, not -- there are exceptions to that, but they attacked it -- many muslim and arab-american documentarians attacked it as anti-arab, islamphobic, and raised the question with their white allies, what's this white woman doing making a documentary

on arab men as they put it, south arabian men? >> right. and your piece in "the times," you quoted ken burn and other documentarians who said i can't just do documentaies about white people. obviously, we're glad ken burns can look across the wide range of human existence, another great documentary. but i mug u must say i agree completely with you. i saw the documentary after i heard about the controversy, and i must say the first 30 minutes i was uncomfortable as a person who supported the war on terror. i was uncomfortable going, wait a second, are these guys telling the truth? is this anti-american propaganda? did this really happen? we're letting these alleged terrorists, you know, run down

the united states. and then you go to the -- and so i say that actually as a positive thing for the documentary because, like, great docs you get into the world view of everybody. and you go through this entire process. so i thought, like you and like many others, the attacks would come from the right, when, in fact, they make a lot of these guys i think far more sympathetic than most americans have ever seen since 9/11, since the gitmo controversies. >> oh, i very much agree. it's kind of fascinating that way, right. and you're left -- you know, i think at the end you're left with an ambivalence, with a sense of well, you know, are they fully rehabilitated? you know, but, i mean, that, again, it strikes me that's very

often the stuff of art. >> yes. >> right, where you're -- it's not, you know, as one documentarian said to me, you know, it's not like arrow is the candy land, so you're going to think this. it's forcing you to engage with these men, you know, all of their complexity as human beings. it doesn't say you have to come out, you know, applauding them, but it is, right, a pretty nuanced look at these guys. >> it is, mika, an extremely knew wajsed look at these guys. it's tough on the united states in parts. it's tough on the saudis at times. you see these men who started this process supporting the terror attacks as we saw in the piece, and by the end being broken and, in fact, even in

this rehab, saudi rehab center, they're saying it's tough. even when you get out of here, life is going to be tough. it's going to be difficult. and sure enough, they're alone at the end, walking through saudi arabia, a society that doesn't allow them to be active participants in that society. >> why don't we bring in the director of the film, meg. thank you very much for coming on the show today. i'd love for you to tell us your story, what your intention, what you created versus the severe reaction it got. >> yeah. so, thanks for having me. the "unredacted" is about a group of men, who, after spending 15 years in gaughan tan mow, are sent to the first rehabilitation center for terrorists in saudi arabia. they're all yemenis and the country is not their own.

it took me about over five years to make it. it was a year to get access, three years with the men, following them through a year and a half of the rehab program and a year and a half after they get out and try to find jobs and start families, then two years of editing. and i think for me, what i really loved about this film is the last 20 years of the war on terror, we've talked about these men, but this is kind of our first opportunity to talk with them and hear from them directly. and i think that's really imperative because as i was making this film, i think for me it reminded me of a story my dad told me when i was younger about starfish, and he told me the story about this fishing village in northern california who had a problem with invasive starfish, so one day all the fishermen decide to get together, collect the starfish, and kill them all and cut them up with three, four, five pieces.

thinking they were dead, they threw them back into the ocean not knowing that starfish regenerate. the population explode and devastated the fishing economy. the moral of the story being when you try to fix a problem you don't understand, you usually make it worse. this film tries to understand these men, who they are on a human level, and kind of dives into their different motivations, their backgrounds, and kind of like the experience they had both in gaughan tan gu before. for me, what's been really kind of inspiring is a lot of the reactions we have gotten from the few people who were able to see it during sundance, and a lot of those people surprisingly were from the vet company, a lot of vets from afghanistan and iraq, have reached out and sent emails and messages saying they've watched or this film has been one of the more healing things they've seen. one vet wrote me and said, you know, when