do this time around, come out of it better. >> president biden and florida governor ron desantis put politics aside at least for a day as the president tours more hurricane damage and even compliments his potential 2024 rival. plus, there's a new claim from the woman who says herschel walker paid for her abortion. meanwhile, walker doubles down on his defense that everyone but him is lying. also ahead, what a dramatic cut in oil production overseas could mean for the price we pay at the pump. we have a lot ahead this morning. good morning and welcome to "morning joe" this thursday, october 6th, along with joe, willie and me, we have u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay, former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele is with us this morning, and as always, the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire,

so we'll get to our top story this morning. willie. >> it's front page of all the newspapers, pictures of president biden and governor ron desantis together one week after hurricane ian made landfall in florida, president biden warning more storms will come. the president visited florida yesterday, just days after surveying storm damage in puerto rico. in florida, president biden and governor ron desantis temporarily put politics aid -- aside as they met with residents in the fort myers area. >> we were fortunate to have good coordination with the white house and fema. one of the things you're seeing in this response, we are cutting through the bureaucracy, we are cutting through the red tape, and that's from local government, state government, all the way up to the president, so we appreciate the team effort. >> i think he's done a good job. look, i called him i think even before he called me when i heard the storm was on its way, we worked hand and glove. we have very different political

philosophies but we worked hand and glove. >> i have been to a lot of disaster areas in the last couple of months, last six months, and there's a lot going on, and i think the one thing this has finally ended is the discussion about whether or not there's climate change. >> you got to build back better because we know more is coming. >> we'll have a live report from florida in just a moment here on "morning joe." so joe, it should not be extraordinary but i think people were relieved perhaps that there was nothing political about yesterday. it was joe biden complimenting governor desantis on the job he has done after the storm and governor desantis nodding to president biden and his role there. >> yeah, i mean, not extraordinary for most of our history but extraordinary right now, and you know, i always thought that chris christie catching the grief he got for

hugging barack obama, just shows the insanity of our political situation because people don't understand that when you're in a hurricane zone, you always hear this nonsense about, oh, a president shouldn't come or a governor shouldn't come because we're trying -- we're busy clearing this or busy clearing. let me tell you something, my first year in congress we had three hurricanes in northwest florida. i ran against bill clinton. when i was on the campaign trail, that guy was in every senate seat. you know what i found out when the hurricanes came, when the president of the united states, be he or she, a republican or democrat, when they come into the middle of a hurricane situation, same thing with the governor, you know what, if you're having problems with fema, if you're having problems with sba, if you're having problems with any of these government agencies you got the president there. you say mr. president, we're

having trouble. we've had islands back to the houses and see if they have any of their momentos left. to see how their house is. you have the president or the governor there. and if they're good at what they're doing, everything clears for you. this is a good thing for people who have really taken a horrible storm, maybe the worst storm in florida in decades, and mika, it's a good thing that joe biden and ron desantis were there and that they were cooperative and working together, and i hope that everybody can look at that and celebrate it, just like we tried to celebrate when their bipartisan bills that are passed through congress, despite all

the craziness, the nonsense, despite all the anti-american talk about fake election results, these are moments that you grab hold to and say this is how we tie the fabric of america together. >> no, and critics of the christie hug, i bet you none of them were near a hurricane zone. when people are hurting, and people are desperate, and their homes have been decimated, nobody wants to see anything but unity between a governor and a president. they do not want to see any daylight between them when it comes to getting their lives back on track. by the way, joe, president biden is getting a bit of encouraging news with just over a month to go until the midterm elections. the latest npr maris poll shows the president's approval rating is up to 44%, the third straight month of approval. biden's approval among democrats is at 87%, 39% among

independents, and 6% among republicans. the poll has warning signs for democrats as well. as seven in ten people think the country is headed in the wrong direction. among the top issues voters say they are thinking about, inflation. we talk about abortion being such a galvanizing issue, and i think i can count on many women coming out just for that issue, but inflation, that goes across the board. >> it really does. and i must say, michael steel, it's interesting, three, four months ago, people were saying, well, biden's approval ratings are low, but the democrats are doing very well. now we have joe biden doing pretty well. there's also morning poll out yesterday, joe biden up to 46%. democrats are doing well. but what you're hearing in media, what you're reading in

media about the top issues, about dobbs, about abortion, being an overwhelming motivator this year, not showing up in polls. please, don't shoot me, i'm only the piano player, maybe it will be. maybe -- i suspect probably like kansas, women are going to be a lot more engaged than even polls pick up and michael, man, if you look at one poll after another poll after another, there are three issues and you know what the three issues are, inflation, inflation, inflation. and democrats are going to have to deal with that. and by the way, below inflation is crime, so i know what everybody is saying, and maybe abortion will turn out to put democrats over the top. i don't see them in the polls right now.

>> you don't see it in the polls, look, the economy is the closest thing to everybody. abortion is a specific issue for this person or that person. preserving democracy is a specific issue for this person or that person, but here's the way you also have to look at this. while abortion or the democracy question may not be their number one, it doesn't mean it doesn't resonate, and it doesn't mean they're not going to vote on that issue. they may be concerned about inflation and we've seen this, joe, we've seen this trend line in the numbers. voters are beginning to bifurcate and pocket how they're looking at these issues. joe biden is under water, but democrats are carrying the generic ballot, right? joe biden's numbers may be, you know, below 50%, but democrats in regions of the country are doing very well, particularly in

competitive races, so these other issues while they may not be number one, they're part of a broader set of issues that the voters are going to be looking at and how they assess not just joe biden, but how are they assessing the democratic candidates versus the republican candidates, versus the republican party. you take a national poll, yeah, inflation is number one, but how is that -- how are those other issues sort of lifting up that issue or a part of that issue in a way that voters going to the ballot box, yeah, inflation is number one. i'm really concerned about democracy, too, and i don't like that candidate's position on democracy, and that weighs as much on how they vote. >> there's a national poll, obviously, willie, and we talked about it before. you can't really even tell you the generic polls are going to play out. democrats may get a lot of support in states like

california, new york, and that might inflate it a little bit. it's a race by race, district by district, state by state campaign. you look at the state of michigan and gretchen whitmer, she is doing great because her opponent is extreme on abortion, says 14-year-old girls who get raped by their uncle are a perfect example of why she wants the state to force them to have the rapist's baby. >> there was a poll that shows gretchen whitmer up by 15 points in that race. a lot of that goes to the extreme language we have heard from her opponent, including the fact that she said rape can be healing to deliver the baby of the rapist. so that's not working in the state of michigan at least. katty kay, inflation, that's the word that comes out of the mouth of every republican candidate, including around the story of herschel walker, we've got more details about that. republicans say this is a distraction from the cost of gas and groceries and crime. that's all they want to talk about, and you can see why in a

poll like this. generally not good news to see high inflation, and a wrong 70% for the party in power heading into a midterm election. >> and we'll get to that later. the news out of opec saying they're going to cut oil production is going to raise prices and inflation more. if we think back over the last few months, when was it that republicans were looking particularly strong and democrats on their back feet. it was when we had oil prices, gas prices, at, what, $7 a gallon at the pump, and that was killing democrats and democratic candidates around the country and although joe's right. this is a state by state issue, and a candidate by candidate issue, if you're running against a weak candidate, that helps you. inflation is a country wide problem, and you feel it in every state you're in. if the gas prices creep up again between now and november, now and polling day, that is only going to hurt democrats in

almost every state and every district. >> interesting, john, to see the use of president biden, he'll be in upstate new york visiting the ibm factory, and a 74% approval rating, what he can do or what he may not want to do for certain candidates in these races. >> it's a deliberate white house strategy to tout accomplishments, the sect conductor act, the chips act, done there in a swing district in upstate new york, as well as fund raise. he's got fundraisers in new york and new jersey. he's making money for his party. they think that's a better use of his time and travel than heading to some of the more competitive districts out there. white house certainly nervous. i know we'll talk about opec later. gas prices, chief of staff ron mcclain says he checks every day checking the price of gas. that's not going to be a great number. republicans bullish right now. they feel like the national conversation is turning to the economy, to inflation. they think that's good for their candidates. they're briefing reporters on a daily basis, hey, we think we've

got momentum. democrats have pushed back with this. they think dobbs is still a factor. republicans with trump have had more success bringing new voters to the polls. democrats think this time around it's them, new women voters who will vote democratic in november. >> the state of georgia, herschel walker, another allegation, the woman who told "the daily beast" that walker paid for her to have an abortion in 2009 now says she also had a child with him. if true, that claim would undercut walker's defense that he did not know the woman who claimed to be an ex-girlfriend. "the daily beast" article states this, when the woman first told "the daily beast" her story, we agreed not to reveal details over concerns for safety and privacy. then walker categorically denied the story, and said he did not

know who was making this allegation. the woman, a registered democrat whose years long relationship continued after the abortion told "the daily beast" her concern with revealing her name is she is the mother of one of walker's children. she wanted to protect privacy while also coming forward with the truth. the article goes on. walker has acknowledged the child as his own, and the woman proved she is the child's mother and provided credible evidence of a long-term relationship with walker. walker responded to the new report providing nbc news with this statement. quote as i've already said there's no truth to this or any other daily beast report. he denied the allegation he paid for an abortion. he's threatened a lawsuit against "the daily beast," nbc news has not confirmed "the daily beast" reporting on this. >> so the question is how do republicans respond to this. his campaign has raised more than half a million dollars

since his monday appearance on fox news during which he denied claims he paid for a girlfriend's abortion back in 2009. and since "the daily beast" publication of the story, we continue to see republicans rallying behind walker. here's ted cruz. >> herschel walker is going to win that race. georgia is a red state. it's going to be represented by a republican. listen, i get it's real nasty. i believe herschel walker is going to be the next senator. i'm proud to support herschel walker. >> senator lindsey graham came out in support of walker, while slamming media for attacking republicans and senator rick scott, the head of the republican senate campaign committee made similar comments. joe, i'm not -- and it's not even the claims of the abortion, which i think you know at this point we have reports. he's denying them. that's where that stands. but the more information that comes out about things like this with herschel walker is they

turn out to be true. it turns out he has more children than he claims to have. it turns out, you know, he didn't manage hospitals, he donated. there's all sorts of twists and turns to his claims about himself and republicans just stick with him. >> i don't get it. this is a new phenomenon. i mean, you ran the republican party. if you had a candidate who lied about his educational degree, lied about being in the fbi, that would be enough right there. that would have finished a candidate right there. but then stories about how he put a gun to his ex-wife's head, lied about the children he had, has four children out of wedlock that his son says didn't raise a single one. this report comes up. republicans are still backing up. this report comes up, and

they're still supporting him, and now a follow up where herschel walker said he didn't know this woman, didn't know anything about this, it wasn't true, and now we're finding out, according to the latest report that and my gosh, based on the past, i would guess this report is accurate, there's a good chance, better than good chance that it's accurate that actually she has one of his children that he's not raising. and republicans are still coming out saying they're supporting him. again, i just, is there nobody in any of these member's offices saying, hey, maybe you should back off a little bit here. let it stay its course. >> no. >> there's no reason why these people should be supporting a guy this terribly flawed. >> they're supporting him because the voters in georgia don't care.

they're not getting phone calls from people in georgia or anywhere else screaming to back away from walker, so they lean in. this whole family values ruse of the gop is busted. democrats didn't expose it. they didn't expose the family values lie, right? republicans exposed their own lie. you know, for 25, 30, 40 years, they have been telling people how to live, who to love, what to believe, when they themselves weren't applying those standards to themselves, and now that's exposed and they don't care because the only thing that matters is that republicans hold that, get that georgia seat. this is about power politics. they know they're going to have a sycophant in walker who's going to come to the senate and do whatever he's told to do, period. that's the only thing that matters. he's a vote on the board. and he's one more step to taking absolute control of the government. that's the game.

>> wonderful. >> and so it doesn't matter. you can have a picture of herschel walker, you know, engaging in all kinds of crazy stuff. you can have more women come out. you can have men come out. it don't matter at this point. they don't care. there's no value here for them other than the owning of democrats, getting this particular seat. so until their voters are expressing concern and a lack of interest in the campaign because of these types of issues, they're going to lean in. ted cruz is going to lean in. that's my guy. yes, he's got how many kids, i don't know, i don't care, it's a vote in the senate. >> michael steele, to build on your point, this goes back to donald trump, willie, saying, yep, i could shoot someone on 5th avenue. no one will care. it's not like these allegations and revelations about herschel walker are stunning new allegations. we never knew this before about

this good man. they knew all of this. they knew that he had a checkered past. they knew about these allegations of abuse. he had this already out there and they didn't care when they chose him. >> and when did people stop caring about a man putting a gun to his wife's head and saying i'm going to blow your brains out. >> when donald trump said i could shoot someone on 5th avenue and he continued to win the president, to bully people, to face shame people, to be racist, completely inappropriate, to call countries you know what hole countries, he has desensitized the country and the entire republican party from anything that is remotely close to decent. >> well, this is the trump playbook, isn't it, katty kay. i mean, behave badly, lie about your behavior, dig in your heels, and then when confronted about it, and you know you're caught as herschel walker appears to be here, democrats and the media are out to get us

again, hit the button to give more money so we can fight and win. and many republicans are saying what michael steele said out loud, we need the vote. whatever he did, we can't afford to care about it, because we need the vote in the united states senate, 50/50. power takes precedent over anything else, morals, ethics, holding a gun to your wife's head and saying you're going to blow her brains out. >> all of these things joe mentioned, when two cycles ago in politics would have ruined a candidate now actually just seem to produce a fundraising bonanza, and we have seen the money pouring into herschel walker's campaign since these revelations on monday because republicans are afraid that actually maybe this will weaken him, and so they counter it not just by supporting him verbally, but actually by supporting him financially as well, and in a weird way, this becomes a benefit to him because it fills his campaign coffers, we're in a very very different place in this country from where we were even just a few years ago on the issue of character, and i think

you can, you know, you can go back to what mika was saying about shooting somebody, donald trump saying he could shoot somebody and the access hollywood tapes. it's that the voters themselves are tolerating so much more. it's that pact that donald trump made with evangelicals, i will deliver conservative judges to you, i will deliver a supreme court which is in line with what you want, the overturning of roe v. wade, which is what you want, he's done t and that's exactly the calculation being made around herschel walker right now. if we can get the senate, we can get more conservative judges, more conservative policies that we like, and we'll overlook the rest of it, and it doesn't seem to be making any difference. >> here's my question, why are there two standards, jonathan lemire, you look, democrats have had to deal with kyrsten sinema

and joe manchin and beg for their votes for a reason because they had north carolina in the bag in 2020. in the closing weeks, a candidate, cunningham, admitted to an extra marital affair. and kaboom. for a democrat, that's the end of his campaign, at least in 2020 in the age of trump, that's the end of the campaign, and my god, what republicans said about that, and what republicans wrote about that, with donald trump at the top of the ticket, but for some reason it's disqualifying for democrats but in 2022, in 2020, 2016, a double standard there. >> the word is hypocrisy. two parties playing with two very different playbooks on most of these issues. and you're right to highlight

how democrats have had to kowtow to what manchin and cinema want. they want to turn minority to majority, that's all they want, and they're following the trump playbook. it's not just full steam ahead. it's deny, deny, deny, you don't give an inch. you don't acknowledge wrong doing, you don't apologize. you blame the fake media, the democrats, whatever it is to get a political advantage to raise more money. >> hypocrisy is not new, and complicity with it with an entire party, this is interesting. this is something that i haven't seen in my lifetime to the complicity to trump that now is dribbling down to statewide races. >> the woman at the center of the story says walker paid for the abortion and she's the mother of a child, and she said well, i guess, what do you make of the denials, i guess there are so many of us with his children, it's possible he's forgotten about me.

>> joe, this is the thing. >> and by the way, what separates herschel walker from donald trump, from everybody else, it's just -- it is -- >> it's acceptance of it all. >> it's almost like a perfect lab experiment to see how low the republican party can go with people it's willing to put in the united states senate, what used to be called the world's most exclusive club. again, willie rightly keeps going back to the thing that is so jarring that his ex-wife said he put a gun to her head and said he was going to kill her. he's never denied that. and that you've had one horrible story after another horrible story about his lies, about his behavior, his son saying --

>> he was terrorized. >> again, you have all of this regarding whether he's actually fit to serve or not, and like i have said, and i wouldn't be the first, many have worried through the years that he might not have the mental, emotional stability required, being polite here, to be in the united states senate. and all of this comes even before we get to the fact that republicans understand he's not qualified to be senator. he doesn't know the issues. he can't talk about any issues in a way that's cogent, that makes any sense whatsoever. people in his own hometown who grew up and whose kids play at herschel walker stadium, and a rural georgia town say he

couldn't even be mayor of our little town, let alone united states senator. this is almost the perfect lab experiment on just how low republican voters are willing to go to quote own the libs. it's not worth it. they'll learn that at some point. but they sure haven't at this point. >> well, still ahead on "morning joe," we've got a lot to get to. we're going to get a live report from fort myers, florida. where residents continue to take stalk of the damage left behind by hurricane ian. and congresswoman liz cheney is out with a warning for arizona voters ahead of next month's midterm elections. we'll tell you about her comments for nominee for arizona governor and secretary of state. and sean patrick maloney will be a guest this morning. president biden making a stop in his district today to tout new investments coming from the

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no one. [ bleep ] with a biden. >> you got that right. >> can't argue outside the house. >> that's exactly right. >> president biden with a hot mic moment. >> what was the context around that. i looked at the tape and i couldn't make up what else they were saying. >> we went back and tried to listen to the audio. it wasn't clear. that was a local official there, the fort myers beach mayor. he was thanking the president for being there, and that's the card the president played. not sure why. >> i like it. swagger, if nothing else. >> i was looking for some context. it turns out there isn't any. he just walked up to a stranger and said that. >> it's okay. you say that to everyone, right? >> yeah. >> i say that nobody does that to the peeky blinders, so maybe he watches the peeky blinders a lot. maybe he's being arthur. >> i liked it. >> it's so funny, you look at

the shows, joe biden is losing his mind, he said this crazy thing, that crazy thing, where have they been in 40 years. he got run out of a presidential campaign in 1947 for saying the craziest things. this is what he does, but i will tell you, i don't -- i'm sure republicans and democrats will be offended by this, but, you know, somebody was talking to a member of the bush administration, 43, and they were asking him, they said -- he's like, you know, you're boss, he can't talk in complete sentences. he's great off camera, sometimes he says and does the craziest things, the sort of things we latch about here, and the person said, yeah, you know what we pick up in the polling, people like him. he's a real guy. he's human.

he's not like this smooth talking bser, people can see that sometimes he's struggling when he's in front of 300 members of the press corps. this person who was close to bush 43 in the white house said it actually works for us, and i do think there's a bit of that in joe biden. he's president of the united states. he's a regular guy. and i'm not -- i'm no encouraging kids to go around and say that when you go to school this morning, when somebody asks if you got your homework done. i'm not encouraging, but if you take your car to get the tires rotated and they say, well, sir, would you like a 15% discount, you don't say it at that point either, i'm just saying, it's kind of like, you know, it's just what he does and what he's been doing for 40 years. >> i'm flying out of laguardia

today, i'm going to try that at tsa. is that a good place to start or no? >> your time at the airport might be extended if you do that. two points on that. remember last week when he called at an event, a congressman who had died earlier in the week, and he was like, that's a sign that he's slipping and people around him, to joe's point, this is who he's always been. he once asked a local lawmaker to stand up and be recognized, that person was in a wheelchair. our colleagues on the ground noted how the people in fort myers beach responded to hill. he had the personal touch. some were clear, they did not vote for him. they were happy to shake his hands. he was empathetic to people. he's able to connect with voters, able to do that now in a way that he couldn't during the height of the pandemic, and we saw yesterday there were people there who said, look, i didn't vote for this guy. he was here, he heard me, i understand.

i like him. >> and you know, the first time i met the guy at a reception, i think it was probably 1995, i was considered to be one of the right wing nuts in the class of '94. the same idea is being called a rhino or left winger. he came up to him and started talking and said i know you're crazy, and that said, we were laughing, and had a great conversation just because he is a very likable, decent guy, it's so fascinating, people trying to put horns on him, nancy pelosi, oh, aoc, you know, it doesn't work with joe biden. again, as i always said, this is going to be a left wing radical, the biggest knock against him when he was in the senate was he was too close to the credit card

companies. he was too close to the bankings. he's from delaware. he's a regular guy who also has been pro business and pro corporation on a lot of different issues. so yeah, a lot of these attacks of him being this left wing marxist, they don't stick. >> he's at his best when people are in need and are hurting. >> that was on display yesterday. he shows that empathy down there. let's go to fort myers where the president was yesterday. nbc news correspondent jesse kirsch is in fort myers beach. what can you tell us from the ground there. >> reporter: we saw one of the moments we often see in the after math of the calamity as the presidential motorcade made its way through in fort myers beach, people stopped and watched. i asked one of the business owners who was trying to get things back together, and i asked what the moment was like. he said it's good for morale, and the reality is they need to get it over with so they can get

back to clean up. a rare moment of solidarity between two political leaders who often do not see eye to eye, echoing the sentiment their administrations have been in lock step, even before hurricane ian made landfall. he toured by air, before going into the area on the ground, and he saw an area nearby where we've been, where we've seen boats stacked up on top of each other like dominos, and the motorcade would have made its way, we saw it making its way through where i am now, past a boat, 30, 40 feet long with an suv crumpled underneath it. that is part of what the president of the united states was seeing in this disaster zone. a couple of the stats we heard from the governor and the president, the president says more than 3,800 rescues have been carried out. almost 100,000 structures have been searched according to the governor. that coordination is going to carry forward. the president saying bottom

line, the job to do here is get florida what it needs, and hopeful news on the rebuilding efforts came yesterday. the governor says a temporary bridge to pine island, one of the communities that has been largely cut off. that temporary bridge has been completed and is now open according to the governor, sanibel island, however, which had its major cause kay swept away in parts by hurricane ian that, causeway needs to be rebuilt. the governor hopes that temporary roadway will be up and running at some point later this month. that's where things stand on recovery and rebuilding. of course there's that grim reality setting in here. the death toll climbing 127 confirmed dead in the after math of hurricane ian, and all but five of those deaths in the state of florida, willie. >> you look at the footage we have been showing. president biden said it yesterday, and it's true, it's going to take years and years to recover from this. nbc's jesse kirsch, live from fort myers beach, thank you so much. we're going to turn now to a

horrific report out of thailand now. still breaking. still developing, as we're getting numbers in here. authorities say at least 24 children and eleven adults were killed today in an attack that began at a child care center in the northeastern part of the country. now, according to police there, the gunman fled the scene, shooting from his car as he drove home where he killed his wife and child before taking his own life. "the washington post" citing thai authorities reporting the gunman was a 34-year-old former police officer who was dismissed from the force after being caught with drugs. we will continue to follow this story as it develops this morning. also ahead, a major decision overseas could undo months of falling gas prices. we'll look at the latest projections on the impact of opec's production cut. plus, kim jong un launches more missiles raising tensions

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top oil producers, including saudi arabia and russia promised deep cuts to output. opec plus announced it would slash production by 2 million barrels a day to spur a recovery in crude prices. the white house calling the decision shortsighted. >> we are providing security, stability to the energy markets. >> the move defying an aggressive push from president biden to keep fuel flowing, visiting saudi arabia this summer to convince them to increase oil production. with midterms just weeks away, higher energy prices could be a blow to democrats and undo months of steadily dropping costs at the pump in most areas of the country. talk to me about the timing of the cut. >> the barrels that are going to be cut will be cut in november. but what it means also is higher prices for drivers. higher prices for heating. higher prices for holiday travel. >> in parts of california, gas prices are already topping $7 a gallon. >> i got to go to where i'm going. i got to pay it, but i'm not

happy about it. >> reporter: across the country, scott macfarlane has been in the heating. >> it's going to be a tough winter for everybody, the consumers and anybody in business. >> adding insult to injury for families struggling with soaring inflation. >> let's bring in former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner, what's the economic impact for americans? >> of the opec, prices are going to go up. $8 a barrel roughly $0.20 a gallon as it filters through the system. this is the saudis trying to manage oil prices. they're the drivers. they'd love to keep oil prices in a band of 80, 90, up to $100 a barrel which is roughly where

it is now, and what they saw starting to happen was oil prices falling, in part because of lack of demand that as the world moves into a slower economic growth, possibly a recession. demand for oil tends to go down, and you're seeing that especially also out of china and on the other side of the coin, the russian oil supply has not been cut at all. almost every barrel is finding its way into the oil system. prices are starting to fall, and the saudis and other members of opec plus stepped in, and said we want to stop this and get oil back into the range we like and the consequences could be maybe $0.20 a gallon on the price of gasoline and heating and so forth for american consumers. >> steve, it's fascinating, you look at the timing of this, one month before an election. you look at the fact that joe biden caught a lot of grief for going over and visiting the saudi leader, a guy, of course, accused of murdering a

"washington post" columnist, a virginia resident, and this is what he gets a month before the election. this is what he gets when vladimir putin is on his back heels. what's your thought about biden's, he just spit in biden's face? >> he did. all of those things are absolutely true. the saudis have always been kind of frenemies, they act in their own interest as most nations do. i'm not going to excuse or condone in any way, shape or form what happened with khashoggi. in general, how they try to manage oil is based on their interests and trying to maximize the long-term value of oil and make sure current prices aren't too low. they had absolutely no interest in accommodating anything biden was trying to do. they did what they thought they needed to do for themselves and

the other members of opec. it's the way it's always been and the way it's going to be until we change our energy situation around and become less dependent as a world on saudi oil. of course as you know, the u.s. not dependent on it. we are an exporter of oil, but the world oil price affects us just as much as it does the rest of the world. >> you know, i've talked to others in the region who -- katty kay, about this move, and they just said it's a shortsighted stupid move that the saudis arguments didn't make any sense whatsoever, and i'm not being a conspiracy theorist here, when i bring up the fact that mbs, very close to jared kushner, very close to the trump administration. i suspect if you're watching news out of america and you really don't understand the subtleties of american politics, you might think that donald trump is going to be president again. you would really, again, i could see how people overseas might think that.

it's -- i would be shocked if it happened, as shocked as if the red sox won the world series this year. it's not going to happen, but still, i can't help but think they made a calculation. they don't like biden. they're close to jared kushner. they're close to trump. trump never gave them any grief about chopping up a "washington post" reporter and lying about it to the world, so listen, i'm all for countries doing what's in their best interest. again, this didn't make sense. doesn't make sense for the saudis when you have biden going over there, catching a lot of grief at home for doing that, but reaching out to the saudis. and then they spit in his face. the future -- i don't think the future is going to be exactly what the saudis think the future is going to be. this is such a shortsighted move.

>> it's one of those things that when you talk to trump supporters around the country and you say, well, you know, about the gas prices, they say, oh, well, this would never have happened if it had been donald trump in office. that ignores the ukraine situation which precipitated the big price hike in the beginning of the summit, but trump supporters certainly believe that, you know, a trump cozy relationship with the saudis would have helped the gas prices at the moment, but -- and it doesn't look great for the white house, does it. they go there. they get a tiny boost in production after biden's visit, but then weeks later get a much bigger cut in production, and steve, just in terms of, you know, the american consumer, what tools are left in the tool box for the white house to try to offset any price hike at the petro pump between now and november, because the timing of this could hit just, you know, it couldn't hit worse for the democrats as they head into the midterms. >> no, it's not great for the democrats.

oil prices or gas prices at the pump had started moving up a bit. i think they're up about $0.12 a gallon from their absolute low, simply as oil prices move around in world markets and are volatile. we have released a lot of oil from our strategic petroleum reserve. it has made a difference. some people estimate as much as $0.40 a gallon. could have been $0.40 higher if we hadn't released the strategic petroleum reserve. we are doing as much of that as we can. so the unfortunate news for the white house is there really isn't much else they can do between now and the election. as i said, the only good news is that oil prices have jumped about $8 a barrel. they are nowhere near where they were at the worst of ukraine, up to $130 a barrel. you won't see gas prices going back to where they were, and the worst of it, they are going to continue to edge up over the next couple of months, and there is as i said, there isn't much

else the white house can do about that. >> let's be clear here, you talk to people who know what's going on. this is the saudis getting involved in american domestic politics. this move doesn't make any sense economically. it makes no sense diplomatically. who's the next president going to stick their neck out for mbs. joe biden did it. people are saying, what he did is horrible. we need to move forward with our relationship. he's going to be there for a long time. we need to do it. biden does it, and this is what they do a month efore the election. for me, obviously, what's more distressing is you have ukrainians fighting for their lives, fighting for their hometowns, fighting for freedom, and here the saudis go helping vladimir putin out. making sure their oil prices go up so he makes more money.

it's disturbing. speaking of disturbing, steve, let's talk about something the united states has inflicted on themselves, republicans and democrats alike over the last 40 years or actually 25 years. when i left congress there was a balanced budget, and we were talking about paying off the debt. now we're over $31 trillion, "the new york times" reports a couple of days ago, and you know, steve, you and i have been talking, warning about the debt, the inflationary pressures that massive debt brings, but what we would always say is fortunately interest rates are at historic lows if they are at historic lows, servicing the debt doesn't cost as much if interest rates go up. once interest rates go up, there's a snowball effect and here we are at $31 trillion. >> we are at $31 trillion, so

the interesting fact, though, is that in the first 200 years of our country's existence, we incurred $4 trillion of debt and the last 25 years or so, as you said, we have incurred $27 trillion more of debt. obviously the dollar is worthless and so on and so forth. the change in deficits has been dramatic and clinton did balance the budget, with help from congress, had a surplus, and when george w. bush came along, the mentality shifted. dick cheney said, deficits don't matter, reagan proved that, and they created deficit spending, and of course it ballooned during the financial crisis, and that was really nobody's fault. we had to respond to that. obama worked the did i have sit down to $500 billion, then covid hit. the mentality has been different. even if you take covid out of

the equation, under donald trump, his policies, tax cuts combined with a lot more spending, which people aren't generally aware of, added 4 1/2 trillion dollars to the debt, and joe biden has spent a lot of money, but it's only in quotes 2 1/2 trillion. really, trump has been so far by far the worst president in terms of incurring deficits and adding debt, and those numbers i gave you don't include covid. covid spending was emergency spending, we can put that aside, even without that, you're talking about 4 1/2 trillion dollars of additional spending and tax cuts under trump that have really put us in this position of having deficits over a trillion dollars as far as the eye can see. >> when i first ran, i ran on the issue of deficits, on the issue of debt, on the issue of balancing the budget. and when i left congress in 2001, get this, we had $155 billion surplus, michael

steele. $155 billion yearly surplus, and this is the partisan in me coming out, the old former republican partisan coming out, democrats fought us every step of the way, said we're going to destroy the country. said if you tried to balance the budget in seven years, you're going to wreck the economy. we didn't wreck the economy. the economy did pretty darn well. bill clinton took credit for it in his book, he was freaking out at the time, saying we were wrecking the economy. the deficit exploded to 5.7 trillion under george w. bush, exploded to 11 1/2 trillion dollars under barack obama. under donald trump, i'm sorry, it was 57 when bush started went to $11 trillion, jumped up to $19 trillion by the time barack obama left office and donald trump even without covid, even without covid, the so called conservative republicans, biggest deficits ever, biggest

federal debt ever, biggest budgets ever, every year. bigger deficits, bigger budgets than before. fiscally, they were radicals, even before covid, and then covid hit and there you go, we're at $31 trillion. >> yeah, and we're seeing the pressure on the economy from all of that spending coupled with the fed policy with respect to interest rates right thousand, and -- right now, and we're sitting here waiting to see, as we get to the rest of the quarter and the fourth quarter of next year what the fed policy is going to be and increasing interest rates further. the market is all over the place. yeah, we had a 700 plus day dow, but it's now the leading indicator since this morning. you're going to have this back and forth with respect to these externalties, joe, which puts the pressure, the onus, as you

rightly noted on congress to sort of manage that with its spending policies with the types of policies that attach to what the nation's priorities are going to be to help americans sort of weather this rough patch. from 94 to 2000, your generation of republicanism spoke -- not just spoke about the impact, the positive impact of deficit control, controlled spending, but actually implemented it, and found the consensus in congress to get that done. we're now, again, operationalizing government on a day by day ad hoc basis. there is no long-term fiscal policy. there's not even a short-term financial understanding of how this economy is working. so the american people, going back to our first part of our

discussion this morning about inflation, they're rightly nervous about it because they don't see anyone in washington who has a damn clue of what to do about it. they don't understand how to help them in their businesses navigate through this as steve rattner pointed out, giving some of these externalities like mbs and his slap at the biden administration, pushing opec to increased production. all of this is going to play politically going into this fall and into next year and we're not going to be any better off from it. >> and you know, the real problem, mika, if you're like me and you're concerned about deficits, concerned about the federal debt, concerned about the fact, as steve said, that over 200 years, we accumulated $4 trillion in debt, and over the past 20 years, we've accumulated another 20, 25,

$26 trillion in debt. the problem is there's not a party that actually is going to answer your concerns. the only time republicans give a damn about deficits are when democrats are in the white house. that's the only time. if you look at the deficit skyrocketing under george w. bush and under donald trump, again, under donald trump especially it's record breaking, and by the way, this is what populist right wing across the globe do. >> it's like obamacare, they use it to complain about. >> they attack immigrants, they attack the libs, they go after the lgbtq community. they get these social issues, they whip people up into a frenzy, and then they spend like drunken socialists. >> correct. >> that's what they do in italy. that's what le pen said she wanted to do in france. that's what donald trump did there. pump up spending for the welfare

state and talk like a conservative. oh, he's pro life, well he can spin us into debt, that's cool. he's taking an extreme position, he doesn't like background checks for guns, okay, cool, that will own the libs. great. okay, yeah, he can keep stealing from our children and our grandchildren and destroy their economic future. they just wave the bloody flags of these social issues and they can act as radical and left wing and spend like socialists, and they have. you look at spending under donald trump pre-covid. the biggest most bloated budgets in the history of america, but conservatives didn't care because he said the right things. the gestures were right for them, and he owned the libs. great, i hope you enjoyed owning the libs, and i hope you enjoyed the gestures because he damn

near bankrupted america. >> the admiral on the set says it's drunken sailors. just so clarify. >> in this case, it's drunken socialists. >> steve rattner, thank you so much for being on. it's great to see you. we are several minutes past the top of the hour. just ahead, former president trump teases another presidential run for months, a new documentary from the bbc is looking at his possible comeback and what issues are motivating voters ahead of the midterms. we will talk to katty kay about that. big project she's been working on. also ahead, we'll get a live report from beijing on north korea's kim jong un making new, aggressive moves with his missile program and more. joining the table former nato supreme allied commander, james stavridis, msnbc's chief national analyst, and willie, we'll get to our top story there. an overnight attack, russian

forces used at least half a dozen iranian supplied drones to strike a military base about 50 miles south of kyiv. in the last three weeks, it is the closest attack to the country's capital in months, highlighting the growing risks ukraine faces as it forces advance to the south and east. this comes as russian troops appear to be ramping up their use of iranian made drones on the battlefield. iran denies supplying the drones to russia while the kremlin has not commented. russian president vladimir putin signed the final papers to annex the four regions of ukraine. this comes as moscow's military struggles to control the occupied areas. in response to the annexation, ukrainian president zelenskyy announced the fast track application to join nato earlier this week. zelenskyy ruled out negotiations with russia saying putin's actions made talking to the russian leader impossible. so admiral, let's talk about the move here by vladimir putin.

he holds the victory celebration last week in red square. we did it, we took back there's four regions, even while he's talking, the ukrainians are rolling into the regions and pushing his troops back. >> it was a good week for our ukrainian friends, and our production in moscow looked like dancing with the stars except it was kind of like annexing with the oligarchs. i think it was theater, political theater, i'm tempted given russian revolution, the village, fakery at its highest and the ukrainians are putting the lie to what vladimir putin is attempting to do and they're doing it with real courage. they're doing it with help from us. we have to keep our foot on the gas pedal. i think we will, and i'll close with this, willie, you look at the volodymyr zelenskyy, he's applying to join nato, the way the ukrainians are going, maybe nato should apply to join

ukraine. >> they're doing it with massive support from the united states and the west, but vladimir putin, i mean, let's talk about six, seven months ago, he thought he was going to be sitting on a thrown in kyiv with the russian flag flying over the capital. how does he recover from this. he tries to call up 300,000 servists, there's pushback, people rushing to the border to get on planes and trains to get out of the country. does this military have a shot here in ukraine? >> oh, yeah, they still have plenty of dirty cards in the hand of tricks, if you will, and it could be as we've talked about at the really dark end of the spectrum, a nuclear device. i think that's highly unlikely. he could use a chemical weapon. he's ramping up the carpet bombing, if you will, simply going after ukrainian civilians, mounting on a up huge tower of war crimes. the mobilization is going to fail him. and winter is coming for

vladimir putin. >> admiral, on the topic of possible escalation, i want to get your response to a story actually in the "new york times" today in which u.s. government officials have concluded it was part of the ukrainian government that was responsible for that car bomb in moscow in august that killed the daughter of a prominent russian nationalist. at the time there were thoughts that it might have been a russian false flag operation that putin was going to use as an excuse to take things further. a, why, and why is the u.s. talking about this now? >> first, you're the journalist, but boy that story appears to be to be very well sourced, very well written, and my assessment of reading open source is that it's probably an accurate story. in terms of is the u.s. talking about it, one would guess so given the fact that journalists are not going to go out and make up stories. the real question to ask first is why did the ukrainians do it,

and was it a smart move. and i think they did it because they want to strike a blow because they're deeply engaged in a horrific fight. but if i were advising the ukrainians, i don't think this is a smart move. it takes them off the moral high ground, has low tactical utility, jonathan, and third, it kind of invites something that russia is good at, which is assassinations. their conventional forces are failing. they're pretty good at finding their way in and killing individuals, and boy, a hammer blow to ukraine would be a similar attack against god forbid, volodymyr zelenskyy, so i'm not sure it makes sense from a tactical strategic standpoint: why it's coming out right now is kind of a mystery. >> joe. >> it really doesn't make sense. doesn't make tactical sense. that's why i do have some

questions about the story and the authenticity of the story, the authenticity of the sourcing only because if you're beating them on the battlefield, you don't have to blow up cars in moscow. i also, when i saw this, i was reminded, you know, we so often hear these stories coming out, leaks from the intel community, and i think about the leak we heard back i guess it was in 2020 about how donald trump knew there were bounties, that putin had put bounties on the head of soldiers in afghanistan, and that was declared gospel, that it was the truth. and then it was declared false. soon after, in fact, you had one agency saying maybe it happened, another agency, i think it was nsa, having a little more confidence in it, so i just want to underline what you said, it doesn't make sense. i'd be curious as to why the ukrainians would ever think

about doing that. so i just wanted to put that out there since the story was brought up. secondly, i just want to ask you, on the field tactically, you say winter is coming. you give us that warning. red sox season is over, so i would suggest winter is here. they're in last place, a cold long winter until spring training, but i'm curious, you're looking at the map, if you're managing the battlefield in the south and the east, what are your objectives? what's your key objective before winter sets in if you're ukraine? >> joe, you want to take as much territory as you possibly can because as winter does come, as everything gets muddy and cold and terrible, troops on both sides, shall we say lose their enthusiasm for combat. this is the world war i scenario. you look ahead to see kind of trench type warfare, so if you're ukraine, you want to make

hay while the sun is still shining, so to speak, and you want to drive a wedge as far as you can into the heart of the russian controlled territory, meaning they're still pretty strong up in the parts of the donbas, and they still hold that part of the system below. if you can drive a wedge in a perfect world, get to the black sea, and split those russian forces, that would be quite an accomplishment. and let's hope they have a chance to do that. >> admiral, if you could stay with us. still ahead on "morning joe," at 10:00 a.m. eastern time, president biden will depart the white house on his way to new york. as he tries to wade back into the midterm battle. he will head to congressman sean patrick maloney's district, and then the congressman will join us ahead of the visit right here on "morning joe." plus, another secret service cover up. the agency is under fire this morning after misreporting a car accident as they were traveling

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is there any chance the democratic candidate for president can win arizona? >> are you afraid of a civil

war. >> if it comes, we'll tight. >> absolutely. and if we have to do that, in order to save our country. we will. >> the republicans have absolutely no credible justifiable empirical evidence would suggest that the last voting system was flowed. >> people just have lost their trust, and that's what breaks my heart. >> it didn't used to be that way? >> no, and i can't imagine what november is going to be like. >> that was a sneak peek at trump the come back, bbc documentary hosted by katty kay. great writing, horse back riding, really cool. over the last few months, katty has been traveling around the country, talking to americans about the issues driving them to the polls this november. what the issues are and what is

the inspiration behind them. tell us more. it looks amazing. >> it was great. i had a month on the road, we went to arizona, georgia, back here to d.c. i met people like the woman you saw, an election official in georgia who has worked as a nonpartisan election official for 20 years, really trying to uphold the system, doing her best to make democracy safe, and i also met a lot of people, some in arizona, like kari lake who are undermining democracy in the country, the midterms are going to be a test of whether america can hold an election that's free of violence, and i came back from that month alarmed by the degree to which everybody is talking about anger and anxiety and violence, how people, both democrats and republicans told me the system is flawed, democracy is in peril in this country but for very different reasons. my concern is you've got a whole

lot of republicans saying the election was stolen, but you're getting people put into a position of power who could change the system and then a cycle or two down the road, you're going to have democrats saying the system is stolen too, and nobody is going to trust the vote anymore. >> is it your sense, talking to all of those officials there in arizona, which is just a great study and a great lab for what's happening in the republican party right now, there are people like mark fincham who believes this, and kari lake, running for governor, who supported obama, spoke out against donald trump in 2015 and 2016, was a news anchor. does she believe all of this stuff at her core or is this a cynical ploy to become governor? >> my assumption going into the interview was that this was a campaign strategy, but i did push her on that, look, do you really believe this and there was, in a way, whether she believes it or not is sort of irrelevant because she's never going to admit that she doesn't, and when you present one

argument that the election was not stolen, there's another argument that comes up from these people. look, there are all of these lawsuits that were thrown out, even by trump appointed judges, but what about the dead people voting or the ballot boxes that were stuffed. there's always another comeback, and they will never concede that the election wasn't stolen. for her, you know, this is a litmus test for donald trump whether you are loyal or not. you cannot allow a chink in that argument. i spent a day with mark fincham, they will be in a position where they control potentially arizona's electoral college people. it's not many people you have to change the voting process, who wins the election in 2024. >> trump, the comeback, with a question mark, is available to

stream now on amazon prime video channels along with the apple tv app and the roku channel. you can catch the documentary airing this weekend on bbc world news. looks great. great project. >> can't wait to see that. >> breaking news overnight. north korea has launched two more missiles and now the united states and south korea militaries are responding. let's bring in nbc news foreign correspondent janis mackey frayer. we're also getting the news moments ago from seoul that pyongyang has launched 12 war planes near the south korean border. >> reporter: 12 north korean fighter jets and bombers were apparently staging air-to-surface firing drills today. so provocative, south korea sent 30 air craft, it comes as the

u.s. is going to hold trilateral military exercises with south korea and japan, and tension all around the korean peninsula edges higher. >> the air carrier, uss ronald reagan moving into waters around the korean peninsula, prompting north korea to fire another two missiles, what pyongyang called counter action in a statement blaming the u.s. for posing a serious threat. it all comes a day as the u.s. and south korea fired surface-to-surface missiles as deterrents. in what is now the most hostile escalation here in five years. >> if they continue down the road, it will increase the condemnation, increase the isolation, increase the steps that are taken in response to their actions.

>> reporter: north korean's testing blitz is a sign the regime is intensifying the weapons program, intermediate range ballistic missile right over japan, soaring 2,800 miles and triggering alarms for millions to take cover. the pace of testing also reminiscent of 2017, when kim jong un last did a nuclear test. u.s. officials expect another to happen soon. this satellite imagery according to maxar shows that north korea is doing construction and restoring tunnels at its main nuclear site, the same one they claim to have destroyed in 2018, during short lived diplomacy with then president trump. an emergency u.n. security council meeting yielded little, beyond accusations that china and russia who hold veto power are blocking discussion, and protecting north korea from stronger sanctions.

as has been the past military displays by north korea, timing and context matter to kim jong un, but the sense is a 7th nuclear test by north korea could be imminent, possibly after china holds its key communist party congress here in a couple of weeks, but before the midterm elections in the u.s. willie. >> nbc's jans mackey frayer from beijing. admiral, you have missile jets and fighter planes buzzing the border of south korea. nuclear tests coming down the road. this is serious business. >> it's deadly serious, and if you think about the global crisis right now, we spend virtually all of our time focused on ukraine, and quite understandably. you've got u.s., china relations that are kind of bubbling along. we had a big spike in concern there with the speaker pelosi

visit, saw china encircle the island of taiwan, and we're following iran and events there very closely. here's a point there willie, what's beneath the surface, where's the shark under the water that you haven't seen in a while. that would be kim jong un and he's someone that consistently tries to get attention in all the wrong places and he's doing it now. this, i believe, is his 24th ballistic missile test record this year. we're still in the fall, obviously, and most ominously as discussed,n't done a nuclear test in a while. boy will that rattle some cages, particularly as the timing unfolds as janice indicated. >> admiral, let's go further, sometimes north korea and china linked, certainly support at times, from beijing to pyongyang. is there a sense here that kim jong un would have permission from beijing to do this now? >> i think in the end, jonathan, all roads to pyongyang go

through beijing, and so if you want to negotiate, if you want to put controls economically, if you want to figure out a way to pull back on him a little bit, you have to work with the chinese. coming up on the 16th of october, the 20th party congress, that will solidify president xi, and it would put xi in a position, i think, a stronger position, and hopefully he can put restraints on his little cousin across the sea. >> oh, my. all right. former nato supreme allied commander, admiral james stavridis, thank you very much for being on with us this morning. >> thanks, mika. still ahead, republican congress a woman liz cheney goes to arizona and urges all voters not to vote for arizona's republican nominees for governor and secretary of state. we'll play for you what she had to say. also ahead, we'll unveil the second annual forbes know your value, 50 over 50 list, which is

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welcome back. it is time for a big announcement here on "morning joe" for know your value, and forbes. the reveal of our second annual 50 over 50 list. it is out this morning celebrating amazing women over the age of 50 who have achieved significant success, later in

life, often overcoming major obstacles. our honorees have rejected the notion that the best, most dynamic parts of their lives are behind them as they age. they are thriving. the women on this list are extraordinary and include supreme court justice ketanji brown jackson at 52. actress, sheryl lee ralph at 65. author and psychologist marsha lindham, at 79. dolores huerta at 92 and many many more. over the next few days, we're going to highlight several phenomenal women who made the list, and we start with a member of our nbc family, hoda kotb. hoda kotb has been an icon on "today" for more than a decade. coming into our homes before the sun is up with curiosity, compassion, and that beaming smile. hoda's journey was not fast or easy. rejected by 27 different companies before she landed her very first job in local news

spending a decade in the mid west and the south until she got the call from nbc news back in 1998 to be a correspondent on "dateline," to then spend years on the road. in 2007, she joined the "today" family. shortly after, hoda revealed she'd been diagnosed with breast cancer. >> today was not a good day. >> openly sharing her pain and eventual triumph over the disease. >> in 2018, she was named coanchor of "today" with savannah guthrie, becoming the first female anchor duo to lead the show. together, they covered the most crucial stories of our time. she had already been cohosting "today's" fourth hour for a decade. with her professional career thriving this her 50s, hoda decided to openly dream and make motherhood a reality. adopting her two beautiful daughters, hailey and hope.

it was savannah who nominated hoda to be on the forbes know your value 50 over 50 list. >> hoda is a living breathing demonstration that you can have it all and you can have it on your own terms. she is authentic, she's devoted to her family, and she's an incredible professional and wonderful journalist. i sat down with hoda and she told me at 58, she's never been happier, and that everything has come right on time. congratulations. >> i cannot believe it. by the way, i have the old forbes 50 over 50. i have the first one. let me, i was learning about all of these women, and i thought how do i not know them. i was fascinated by it and honored. >> it's an amazing list, and i think it has an amazing message, that is long runway, longer than we thought. >> i remember when we were both

at nbc and i just remember where we were in our careers, and how we were kind of hobbling on, and wondering, like, was the end 15 years ago, 20 years ago, could that have been the end of our careers, and look at us sitting here. >> my career actually ended. i got fired. >> and you emerged. i heard the saying, it gets greater later. it gets greater later. and it does. it gets greater in every single aspect of life. >> did you ever imagine your career after 50? >> i didn't either. >> i think it was because we kind of watched people's careers come and go, didn't we. it was like you knew there was always the old guy anchor and the young girl anchor. >> it was never us. >> it was never ever us. it was kind of funny, you watched this and you thought that was the norm, and then one day, you turned 45 and you were here and you turned 50 and you

were here, and you looked across the street and saw katie couric, meredith, oprah, gayle king, robin roberts. >> and we can do that, that's a possibility. >> and yet for you it's multifaceted. what would you consider your greatest accomplishment over the age of 50. >> my greatest accomplishment over the age of 50 is having hailey and hope, without question. who would have imagined that. >> i didn't see it coming. i literally watched it live when you broke the news, and i thought, are you kidding me. >> a friend of mine and i were walking down the street, and i remember, well, we never wanted kids, and mid sentence, well, actually i did. and i said, you never said that, well, because i'm 50 so i don't want to say that, but i've always wanted them.

i've always kind of dreamt about it, and lo and be hold the minute i said it out into the universe, i started thinking, why not me. >> i think it really actually makes the message of 50 over 50 so much more robust. you can achieve massive success over 50. we have women over 60, over 70, over 80 over 90 reaching their highest impact, really killing it, and what you're telling us is you can find happiness too. >> i know itch never ever in my life been this happy, never. this decade of my life is by far the best decade i have ever had, and i would never have imagined that to have been a possibility. >> did you ever have a moment in your life before the age of 50 where you almost gave up? >> the one thing i think i do really well is i get up. i used to play basketball in high school, and i believed with

15 seconds on the clock down five points we could do it. i would calculate, you know what's going to happen, i'm going to get shoot, go for the foul shot, miss the rebound, that's four. like i believed to the end it was possible. >> i can't wait to ask you this next question. what do you say to younger women in their 20s and 30s who are like i was, rushing, trying so hard to, like, check off all the boxes, like constantly in a rush because you think you've got this clock ticking. >> don't rush it. don't rush it. all the best things in life happened in my 50s and we took all the lessons we learned and kind of applied them. i think just slow it down. i remember i actually called robin roberts, can you believe i'm 50, whatever i was, 52, and i have a baby and she said you know what that baby is, hoda, and i said what, she said that baby's right on time. and i thought, everything's

right on time. your job for you is right on time. any job for me right now is right on time. we're right on time. >> two beautiful girls, i have two girls. i love it. i loved it when they were little. hope and hailey. so for women thinking of a similar path, what's it like. >> i love have children in my 50s. i love having a 3 and 5-year-old. i love it. when i go to the gym to work out, i make sure i lift 40 pounds or more because i want to hoist hailey. my trainer is like, what dupe to lift. i said i want to lift 40 pounds and when she weighs 50 pounds, i want to lift 50. having kids in your 50s, i'm so much calmer than i was. i'm so much smarter, living in the moment. >> my girls, i was 28 and 30, and i was so, i was on overnights, mornings, whatever i was doing at msnbc, that stuff. everything was so rushed. >> yes. and if i could do it again, i would do it in my 50s, because i

feel like i have so much more to offer and i can be still and love it. >> yes. >> so i think it's like savor and linger, that's what i'm trying to do. savor and linger. >> i love it. and savannah, who just turned 50 nominated hoda, which is so amazing, we have an interview with savannah and you can watch my entire interview with hoda at knowyourvalue.com. forbes.com. joining us the editor of forbes women and the driving force behind the 50 over 50 list, maggie mcgrath. thank you so much for coming on. so first of all, let's talk about hoda who proves that over 50, success is not just work. >> indeed. she embodies the ethos of this list. you can see it in her appointment as the coanchor of the "today" show n her family life, there's no ticking clock. >> he's the embodiment of the list. there's four categories, impact,

entrepreneurs, lifestyle, money, first of all, we had so many submissions, we had women lining up and we had to say sorry, sweetie, you're too young. but why four lists? >> we see this as a community. we don't want to limit this to just 50 people and a little inside secret, the 30 under 30 is our other age focus list, we have 20 categories there. here we chose four broad categories so we can tell stories across media, entertainment, technology and none, and what's really fascinating is as you look at these women, you see the intersections of women disrupting male-dominated industries like manufacturing and chemistry. >> and doing it well over 50. let's go over some of these phenomenal women. i have my spokes models, jonathan lemire, and willie geist here. diane hendricks is 75. take it away. >> diane hendricks is worth $12 billion, america's richest self-made women. she is one of the most

successful female entrepreneurs in the u.s. ever. she is now 75. what's fascinating at her story. she cofounded a roofing distributing company with her husband in 1982. her husband passed away tragically 15 years ago, and everyone assumed when he passed away she'd sell the company, and she said, no, this is my legacy, this is my legacy to my children, and she dug did you go in. she has grown the company five fold since he passed away, and she's also diversified into giving back to beloit, her hometown in wisconsin. >> you have a nobel prize winner, frances arnold, she's 66. >> at 62 she became the fifth woman in history to receive a nobel prize for chemistry. joining marie curry. and if that wasn't enough, she's cofounded companies, commercial application of research to pharma and biofuel. >> we have women in their 50s, 60s, 70s, we have many women in their 80s, and we have women in

their 90s. several women in their 90s, active and having impact. >> active and instrumental in their fields. we have delores huerta, she is 92. she has a long career in activism. she survived an assassination attack when she was 58, and she is actively engaged in civil rights and feminist causes. we have joan myers brown, she's near and dear to my heart, founding a company for black dancers in philadelphia. in 1991 at 60 she founded the international association for blacks in dance. this is tremendously important because we see the way systemic racism affects all sectors of the american economy but particularly in dance, we need organizations like hers to have people network and grow. >> 64-year-old angela bassett is on the list and there's other celebrities as well. talk to me about sandra bullock, who's streaming, she's in movie

theaters, "gang busters." >> some of her biggest roles have been over 50 and she made our list of america's richest self-made women for the first time ever. fun fact, she owns $60 million in real estate. she's very active. >> just that, that's all. it happens. and dolly parton, i just love dolly parton so much. >> she's 76. she seems to get more popular adds time goes on and in part, we saw in 2020, the $1 million donation she made toward vaccine research, and that contributed to moderna's production of the covid-19 vaccine. >> amazing. >> i would argue dolly parton, american hero and someone who has in recent years gotten the recognition she deserves and a lifetime of service. >> greatest living american is dolly parton. >> and the donations of books. >> and commitment to animals. katty kay, this is something you and i have talked about through know your value events and confidence code events over the

years, and this partnership with forbes for this list it just shows our daughters don't rush, don't do what we did, okay. you can enjoy the moment. >> what i love, i keep coming back to this. first of all, it's a genius idea, congratulation, i love the women, i love that we are profiling women who are achieving so much. and some are achieving so much because they have been amazingly successful and made a lot of money along the way, and some of them are achieving so much because they are changing the world and changing society in different ways. i love the range of these women. the thing i keep coming back to is the message that you have for younger women as well, and it's always -- i'm always trying to think what could i give women in their 20s who i know are struggling, women in their 30s, thinking how do i do it, should i quit, i can't do it all, and what i love about the message is the long runway. >> for everything. >> that runway is longer than you think, and you don't have to think you have to do everything

in your 30s, never see your children, work 15 hours every single day. you can take a pause. your career doesn't have to be a ladder, it can be that wave. it goes on for a while. think wave, not ladder. >> thanks. it is really great. no, i'm loving this for the next generation. we're going to have so much more on the women on our new list, it's out now. forbes.com. all the interviews, we have more in the fourth hour of "morning joe," including my interview with kris jenner and. president biden's approval rating is inching up again ahead of the midterms but the polling isn't all good news for democrats. we'll explain. plus, new reporting about a secret service motorcade accident involving vice president harris and the agency tried to sort of obscure what really happened. "the washington post's" carol leonnig joins us with that new reporting. "morning joe" is coming right

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alec baldwin and the producers of the movie "rust" have settled a lawsuit with the family of the cinematographer who was fatally shot last year. now the movie is set to resume production. miguel almaguer has details. >> reporter: nearly a year after the fatal shooting on the set of "rust," the family of halyna hutchins has reached a settlement in a wrong the death lawsuit with the film's producers, including alec baldwin, the movie's star and the man behind the fatal bullet. in a statement, her husband matthew says all of us believe her death was a terrible accident. i have no interest in engaging in recriminations or attribution of blame to the producers or mr. baldwin. it's a major change in tone since he sat down exclusively

with hoda in february. >> the idea that the person holding the gun causing it to discharge is not responsible is absurd to me. >> reporter: while a financial agreement has not been disclosed, matthew hutchins will now be an executive producer on the film, which will go back into production early next year. it all comes as the santa fe district attorney could file criminal charges against as many as four people, possibly including baldwin himself. >> each of those charges will include some variation of the homicide statue. >> reporter: the d.a. says the settlement will have no impact on the ongoing criminal investigation or the decision to press charges, adding no one is above the law. can the d.a. still move forward without the victim's family support? >> technically the d.a.'s case against these defendants has not been weakened at all by this

settlement. practically speaking, it has because reluctant victims make for a difficult prosecution. >> reporter: earlier this year, attorneys for the hutchins family released this animation they say shows how baldwin was holding the gun as a live round was fired with halyna standing four feet away. that bullet killed the 42-year-old and injured the film's director, who now says he'll return to finish the film. >> i would never point a gun at anybody and pull the trigger. >> reporter: baldwin who denied responsibility for the accident called the agreement a resolution to a tragic and painful situation. >> justice is a tricky concept. >> reporter: halyna's family hopes the settlement will help pay tribute to her final work. >> she deserved to live. nothing can bring her back. >> such a terrible accident. miguel almaguer reporting. and they're going ahead with the

movie. >> yeah. still ahead on "morning joe," new allegations against herschel walker, the georgia senate candidate has denied knowing the woman who claims he paid for her abortion. now the daily beast reports she's the mother of one of his children. plus gas prices could rise in the coming weeks after opec announced a cut in oil production by 2 million barrels a day. can the biden administration do anything about that? we'll go live to the white house. and president biden heads to new york and new jersey today to campaign and to raise money for democrats. sean patrick maloney joins us. we're back in a moment. it's the greatest sandwich roster ever assembled.

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but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire i think he's a remarkable person. i think he's the most important senate candidate in the country because he'll do more to change the senate just by the sheer presence, by his confidence, by

his deep commitment to christ, by the degree to which he's -- he's been through a long, tough period. he had a lot of concussions coming out of football. >> that's the first time i heard the "our candidate has brain damage defense." >> i'm so confused. >> that is something. >> a lot of concussions. >> i don't -- so -- i'm confused. >> i am, too. >> this also -- you know, willie, you heard me talking very carefully about herschel walker because this is -- i do believe this is a guy who has suffered for quite some time with mental/emotional problems. and there is so much overwhelming evidence that -- i guess, again, i'm just

flabbergasted with what newt said. i wonder if you start connecting the dots and you look at fact that overwhelming majority of pro athletes that retire do actually have great challenges and we've seen tragically those that have played in college and the nfl have had emotional regulation problems, have had mental lapses, have had struggles with depression. it's a real tragedy. i'm certainly not making light of that. but -- >> that's fair. >> -- you look at the fact that herschel walker has trouble completing sentences, has trouble concentrating. and maybe newt gingrich is on to something. i can't believe i'm saying it -- maybe he's on to something there. the tragedies surrounding football players and cet are all around us. we read sad stories every day.

i wonder if maybe newt gingrich accidentally stumbled on to something that perhaps we should be focused on a little more and be sensitive about. >> it's possible. i don't think there's been public diagnosis or private diagnosis of that. and herschel walker has talked about his mental illness. he does not deny the story that we've been talking about a lot this morning where he held a gun to a woman's head and said he would blow her brains out. he said i struggled with mental illness, forgive me for my sins. okay. mental illness, very serious. cte, very serious, but you don't have to run for the united states senate if you're struggling with those things. to hear newt gingrich explain all of that away because herschel walker took some hits to the head in the 1980s when he was playing, or for the new jersey generals, to hear him talk about his christianity and

leading with christ, except for according to the daily beast he paid for abortions with at least one woman. are republicans hoping to swipe it away so they can have that vote in the united states senate? they cannot afford now to turn their backs on herschel walker, despite everything we're learning recently. as mika pointed out earlier, we've known a lot of this, not just for months but for years about herschel walker, because he is trump's hand-picked candidate, nobody would speak up and say, well, we like herschel walker, we appreciate what he did at georgia, man, i don't know if he should be united states senator. no one dare say that to donald trump. >> you really do wonder, michael steele -- mika said it before -- wasn't there anybody around him that could have stopped him, that could have protected him? that could have stopped this slow-motion train wreck? his son said that his entire family begged him not to do it.

it's kind of like rudy giuliani, a guy who we know was at one point called america's mayor. credited for having a large part in an incredible turnaround in new york city. so many times i see rudy giuliani going out clearly -- clearly having lost several steps. in fact, donald trump said that even back in 2016, that rudy's lost more than a few steps. you're like where are the people protecting these folks? and with herschel, you go, come on, who would be cruel enough to put this guy out there? and then, of course, you look and see -- it wasn't mitch mcconnell. he didn't want him in there. it wasn't any georgia republican. they want to win the seat. they should be 8, 10 points up right now. but donald trump picks a guy who shouldn't be out there. not only is it not in the republican party's best

interest, it's probably not in his own personal best interest to be going through what he's going to be going through over the next several weeks. >> it's not so much what he will be going through over the next several weeks, it's how he will function as a united states senator. >> god help us. >> how he will run his office. how he will manage the affairs of state that come before him. no one cares about that. they just want the seat. you know, it's -- the attitude that emerged inside the gop, which we saw manifest the first time with donald trump -- oh, we can control him. we can manage him. no. yeah. his behavior is antithetical to everything we stand for and argue before the american people. once he wins, we'll control him. it's that sense of we know how to handle the monster we're creating. the reality of it is they don't know how to control him. once he is elected and a united

states senator, he will be his own man. he will want to say and do things his own way. and every day someone will show up with -- to one of those republican senators with a microphone going, do you hear what senator walker said today? what do you say? they don't care about the family aspects. his family said don't run, don't do this. this is not the best thing for you. now all this stuff is coming out. the party doesn't care. they want the seat. so this rests at the end of the day with georgia voters. you have to ask yourself, is this the best extension of yourselves you can put forward to the country? that's who -- that's who our representatives are. they are an extension of us. they represent us. if this is the best extension of yourself in georgia, okay, fine. then live with the consequences

of having this individual who, as we noted, can barely articulate a position on any issue, not an issue he supposedly knows something about, but any issue. there's a lot of other things going on with him that the political system should not be taking advantage of out of the interest of getting a seat in the united states senate. i -- i'm looking to the voters of georgia at this point. you have to decide, you're keeping the race close. you know that this man is unfit to serve. do you really care that much that you own the libs or that you give the republicans the power to what end? because it's not going to be a functioning member of the united states senate. he's not functioning as a candidate for the job. >> yeah. >> and that's the reality here. >> yeah. >> it's just the reality. just the facts that we're

talking about here given everything that is known about this candidate. you know, we have some interesting new poll numbers for president biden and the democrats with just over a month to go until the midterm elections. the latest npr poll finds the president's approval rating is up to 44%, the third straight month of improvement. that's good news for the democrats. the bad news, 7 in 10 people think the country is headed in the wrong direction. as for the top issues for voters, inflation continues to top the list. joining us now, the chair of of the d triple c, and president biden will be visiting your district this afternoon. joe, the big question for the democrats like sean, especially with the opec news and potentially gas prices, everything going up again, that could definitely be challenging for democrats. >> definitely could be. sean, i'm curious about a trend

we're starting to see in senate races. the "new york times" report about the wisconsin senate race that got tight. things that the democratic said in wisconsin like the democratic senate said in pennsylvania about crime and "defunding the police" those exact words weren't used. but you saw firsthand in 2020 that down the stretch that actually kept a lot of races closer, the whole democrat soft on crime argument from republicans in the closing months. of course we understand, we say it here all the time, you can't be for beating the hell out of the cops and you can't be for terrorizing fbi agents and their families and defunding the fbi and being pro cop. but that, of course, doesn't stop shameless politicians from going back to that argument. my question for you, i know a lot of democrats are asking this in wisconsin and pennsylvania, across the nation -- what's the

democratic response to that? democrats are soft on crime. what's the response? >> that talk is cheap. we'll fix these problems and the other side is seeking to exploit them for their own political power. we passed out of the house a local police funding bill that will provide assistance to police departments under 125 officers, that's every police department in my congressional district. we're the only party that supported law enforcement when we passed the rescue plan, which was $300 billion to local governments, that means every county, every town and city and village in my district got help. that's what kept our first responders, cops, firefighters, health care workers on the jobs. talk is cheap. we know we have to take these lies and distortions seriously. we're going to do it. >> and that really is -- why are you asking that question, people

are asking. that's right. lessons learned from 2020. sounds like, again, there are a lot of those policies that all republicans voted against that obviously can be pushed right back at them. let's talk about inflation. we're talking about the saudis jacking the price up, opec jacking the price up of oil despite the fact it's been -- gas prices have been coming down. they're not going to go back up to where they were before. i know you've seen an internal polling, all democrats have seen it. americans, a lot of americans really upset about the abortion ruling. a lot of americans upset about democracy, upset about the denial of fair and free elections by a lot of trumpists. inflation is still a top issue as well. what's the democratic answer to inflation, a runaway inflation? >> well, again, we're working

the problem. they're working on their own power. we don't disagree with the other side on lowering peoples costs. what we disagree on is when we have a plan to bring down prescription drug costs which we passed into law, capping seniors out of pocket costs at $2,000 a year, all of the republicans voted against it. when we have a plan to cap child care costs at 7% of your income, republicans opposed us. on gas prices, the president released 90 million barrels from the strategic petroleum reserve. we're going after the big oil companies for price gouging. that's a plan. the other side is trying to exploit these frustrations. we disagree on your reproductive freedom. while we agree prices are high, the fact is that the republicans disagree that you should make personal health care decisions for yourself. that's motivating voters all over the country. if you don't believe me, i'd like you to meet congressman pat

ryan. >> right on that line, congressman, with abortion, the poll we just showed from npr and pbs is immigration. this fiscal year, 2 million border arrests, by far a record in the history of this country. do you agree there's a crisis at the border? if so, what should be done differently by this administration? >> again, we've got a plan to fix the border. we had one for years. we would start with helping dreamers, temporary protected status individuals and farm workers, which is bipartisan, have legal status here in the united states. we would also enforce our asylum laws. we wouldn't put, you know, moms and kids on a plane and send them to martha's vineyard exploiting human beings for some political stunt. we take our laws seriously. people come here legally and claim asylum, they have a right to have that adjudicated before a judge. we'll obey our laws and enforce the border. we don't disagree that we need a

border that is under control and where we follow our laws. what we disagree on is exploiting human beings for political gain. >> so what's going on at the border in your assessment, congressman? 2 million arrests at the border, what's happening there? >> what's clearly going on is we have a broken immigration system. democrats had a plan to fix that for years. the republicans have opposed this every step of the way and sought to exploit the issue for political power. what is going on in recent times is that we had to close the border for the pandemic, that created a backlog of asylum cases and others seeking legal entry or legal process. we have a surge in drug trafficking that we have to combat. and that's creating violence, particularly around the fentanyl trade. none of these are new problems. these are issues we have seen for years. we have to enforce our laws, including our asylum laws, we have to get control of the border. we can respect human beings and avoid the political stunts that

we saw the republicans engage in. can i tell you something, right now, when the republicans have litigated this issue in places like the hudson valley where today with the president we're announcing thousands and thousands of good, manufacturing jobs and more than $100 billion in invested through the chips and science act, pat ryan won, their candidate lost. >> congressman, good morning. we're just five weeks or so from election day. the organization you chair received a lot of attention this primary season, including criticism from democrats for funding some republican candidates, extreme republican candidates under the theory they might be easier to beat in november. some in your own party criticized that saying that's too risky, we might give them a chance to win, and it looks like we're promoting candidates who are anti-democracy. the stretch run upon us, do you defend that decision?

>> you just said -- i have enormous respect for you, you said we funded republican candidates. we attacked a single republican candidate with a general election ad that we ran two weeks early. right now, hillary scolden is leading in the polls by double digits. she will beat john gibbs, that's a loss for kevin mccarthy and the maga movement. in a budget of over $300 million, the democratic national campaign committee invested $400,000 attacking a single republican primary candidate with a general election ad a little bit early. i don't own whatever the senate has done and the governor has done, people have concerns about this and they are always difficult and moral and philosophical questions. >> you just explained something your organization did, but some

democrats feel the candidate that benefited from this is a danger to democracy. i understand obviously we were talking earlier in the show about parties that are making choices to back someone who is clearly unfit for office in their estimation. we talked about herschel walker earlier. for our democracy right now, do the risks outweigh the rewards here? >> i would say this is a great example of a false equivalence. if you're going to compare attacking a republican candidate months ago in a single primary, about you compare that to what's going on now with herschel walker in georgia, my goodness, we're sitting here 30 days out from a midterm election where our basic reproductive freedoms and political freedoms are on the line. families like mine won't fit in the maga view of america. we will go into campaign mode from coast to coast right now. i'm not looking in the rearview mirror at a decision that was

made months ago. i'm looking forward through the windshield at holding this majority. and that's the larger moral imperative so the people who set aside the election, 139 of them, were already in congress on january 6th. they voted to set aside the election. 75% of the republican caucus right now supports a nationwide ban on reproductive freedom, abortion. that's the moral imperative to keep those people out of power. >> you just talked about, congressman, the large number of republicans who actually voted to overturn a peaceful democratic presidential election. the question that i'm always asking myself after we get off the air is how much americans really care about the things that i care about, that i've obviously put above partisan

concerns. and i want to know, not just what you hear from democrats, because i'm not interested in, you know, preaching to the choir. sometimes i worry that we just sort of preach to the choir here when we talk about the election deniers and the dangers that they cause to america when we point out that january 6th was more than a riot, it was an attempt to overthrow an american democratic election, when we talk about a former president stealing top-secret, classified documents and taking them to his resort, to his home, then lying to the fbi and the department of justice about that. you put all of this together, you put together the fact that even before the election he was telling his attorney general he wanted him to arrest his opponent and family. you have ginni thomas saying she wants him to be locked up and

put on a barge outside of mar-a-lago. it's all very dangerous stuff. madisonian democracy under threat. i'm saying this and so many people i grew up with don't give a damn. they don't really care. but yeah, yeah, nancy pelosi or aoc. i'm just curious, do you see any evidence at all that independents that are not in the tank care about these issues that i'll just say mika and i care so passionately about and that we're so concerned about every day? >> yes, of course we see that. it's our job to make the case, of course. but if you look at kansas, turnout doubled from the last gubernatorial primary. 70% of new registrations were women in kansas. in upstate new york, college educated voters independents were swinging heavily our way

because they care, we know, about having their political and reproductive freedom ripped away by a maga movement that would do that in service of their own power. look at what happened in alaska, in five special elections since the dobbs decision, we have cut the trump margin in half or won. so something is going on out there with young voters as well who don't want to live in a future where their personal health care decisions are made by a politician but they can make those with their doctor. the folks watching this show have to get out and vote. and people have to show up. we're 30 days out. we're under the gun right now. it's time for people to get involved. as democrats, we have no intention of losing. we know what's at stake. i was there on january 6th. we'll leave it all on the field and you're seeing our poll numbers get better, the president is getting stronger. we're peaking at the right time. people need to show up. >> sean patrick maloney reaching out to the other side, quoting

patrick j. buchanan from 1996. democratic congressman, sean patrick maloney of new york, thank you very much. i do want to say, michael steele, there's a difference. the congressman was talking about abortion. >> right. >> people of good faith can have a debate on abortion, whether pro-life or pro-choice. we both have friends in both parties who are both. but that's -- that's really not what i was talking about. i'm talking about madisonian democracy, i'm talking about january 6th. this is something about where people of good faith who are pro life and pro choice can be concerned about the state of madisonian democracy. have you seen evidence that people actually care about this and that anybody is going to

vote around the threats to american democracy? >> i'm so glad you asked the question. i don't think the congressman really touched on the point you were getting to here. the short answer is yes. why do i say that? i go back to before the january 6th hearings began, this idea, this concept of democracy and what happened on january 6th, the attack, the undermining of madisonian democratic structures didn't resonate with voters. they were getting ready for summer. they were getting ready for gas prices that shot up to $6, $7 a gallon. the hearings began and 20 million people tuned in. >> good point. good point. >> 20 million people tuned in and they stayed with the

narrative. and they have been there. go back to that poll you put up this morning. 37%, right, are out there saying, oh, my god, inflation. what's the next big number? 27% of americans are concerned about democratic principles, madisonian democracy. that number did not exist three, four months ago. that number was below 10%. >> yeah. >> so this whole narrative has begun to resonate, which is why i made the point i made in the first hour of "morning joe" -- that the american people are absolutely concerned about inflation and it's important. they want to know, okay, can you help a brother and sister understand what's going on here and make it better? but they also know there's a greater threat. there's another danger that they have to have an eye on, which is what the republicans have been pushing and counting that the american people won give a damn

about. we can show our behinds like my mama used to say and they won't care. but you know what? they do. they're watching. they're assessing. they're evaluating. that 27% is a real number of americans. it is a danger for republicans to assume that those voters won't vote, period, along those lines. because they will. it doesn't mean to your very important point that they're not pro life or not pro choice or that they don't care about the economy, they do. at the end of the day, they have to sit back and go, all right, those things are important, joe and michael, but if i can't access the ballot box, if i cannot freely assemble, if i cannot register my complaints before my elected officials, doesn't matter what the price of

a gallon of gas is, does it? you can't protest on it, you can't freely assemble to complain about it and you can't vote against the politics who aren't doing anything about it because they stripped away your access to the ballot box. voters are not stupid. that's because of the way liz cheney framed this narrative, the way bennie thompson framed this narrative, the way you and others have talked about this, not in a hard partisan way, but saying, folks, this piece is real, too, and it matters. i think folks are getting that. we'll see. georgians, i get how you may feel about the way herschel walker played football, but do you think he's the best representation of you in the united states senate? that's what elections are about. >> yeah. willie, if we were on espn right now and we were around the horn,

where they give the reporters the points, michael would have won going away. i would have gone ding ding ding. he would have had 87 points. he would be the "morning joe" around the horn champ. what a great point. first of all, the reason i asked the question is because this is the first time i've seen that number so high in a poll that was in the npr/maris poll. what a great point that they thought they could push january 6th aside. 20 million americans saw the first one and are still tuning in. >> i saw that poll this morning when i came in. inflation makes sense, everyone is dealing with that. when you take a step back and put yourself out two years ago, five years ago, to see that a quarter of the american population is most concerned about the democracy, is democracy going to hold? we're talking about foundational

questions. these are not pocketbook issues. these are not things we see on a list like this. preserving the democracy, 27% of americans say that's the number one issue. that's extraordinary. these hearings have captured the american attention. i want to read one last thing. this is from the lieutenant governor, a republican, the lieutenant governor of georgia. he said this last night. if we're being intellectually honest, herschel walker won the primary because he scored a bunch of touchdowns in the '80s and now he's donald trump's friend. now we move forward several months on the calendar, and that's no longer a recipe to win. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll go live to the white house for what the biden administration plans on doing to combat opec's major cuts to global oil production. plus we'll go live to florida for the latest on the recovery efforts from hurricane ian. president biden and florida

governor desantis put their political differences aside yesterday for a tour of the destruction. also this hour, our conversation with the great william shatner. it is everything you would imagine an interview with shatner would be. you're watching "morning joe."or " 12 irresistible subs. the most epic sandwich roster ever created. ♪♪ it's subway's biggest refresh yet!

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no one [ bleep ] with a biden. >> damn right. that's exactly right. >> oh, my goodness. did he say -- >> what was the context around that? i looked at the tape. >> a couple of us went back and tried to listen to the audio. it wasn't clear. that was a local official there, the fort myers beach mayor. he was thanking the president for being there. and that's the card the president played.

>> i like it. swagger, if nothing else. >> i was looking for some context. it turns out there isn't any. he just walked up to a stranger and said that. >> it's okay. you say that to everyone, right? >> yeah. >> i say that nobody does that to the peeky blinders, so maybe he watches the peeky blinders a lot. maybe he's being arthur. but, yeah, listen -- >> i liked it. >> it's so funny, you look at the shows, joe biden is losing his mind, he said this crazy thing, that crazy thing, where have they been for, like, 40 years? he got run out of a presidential campaign in 1987 for saying the craziest things. you're like, what? this is what he does, but i will tell you, i don't -- i'm sure republicans and democrats will be offended by this, but, you

know, somebody was talking to a member of the bush administration, 43, and they were asking him, they said -- he's like, you know, you're boss, he can't talk in complete sentences. he's great off camera, sometimes he says and does the craziest things, the sort of things we laugh about here. and the person said, yeah, but you know what we picked in the polling, people like him. he's a real guy. he's human. he's not like this smooth talking bser, people can see that sometimes he's struggling when he's in front of 300 members of the press corps. this person who was close to bush 43 in the white house said it actually works for us, and i do think there's a bit of that in joe biden. he's president of the united states. he's a regular guy. and i'm not -- i'm not encouraging kids to go around and say that when you go to

school this morning, when somebody asks if you got your homework done. i'm not encouraging, but if you take your car to get the tires rotated and they say, well, sir, would you like a 15% discount plan? you don't say it at that point either. i'm just saying, you know, it's just what he does and what he's been doing for 40 years. >> i'm flying out of laguardia today, i'm going to try that at tsa. >> please don't. >> is that a good place to start or no? >> your time at the airport might be extended if you do that. two points on that. remember last week when he called for an event, a congressman who had died earlier in the week, and he was like, that's a sign that he's slipping and people around him, to joe's point, this is who he's always been. in 1988, he once asked a local lawmaker to stand up to be

recognized, he was in a wheelchair. that's what joe biden does. our colleagues on the ground noted how the people in fort myers beach responded to him. he had the personal touch. some were clear, they did not vote for him. they were happy to shake his hands. he was empathetic to people. he's able to connect with voters, he's able to do that now in a way he couldn't during the height of the pandemic. we saw it yesterday. people said i didn't vote for this guy, he heard me, i like him. coming up, live reporting from the white house and wall street as saudi arabia stands with russia when it comes to curbing oil production. what it means for energy costs this winter and the price at the pump right now when "morning joe" comes right back. the tenth pick is in the new all-american club. that's a “club” i want to join! let's hear from simone. chuck, that's a club i want to join! i literally just said that.

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star trek, a recent space traveler and a living legend. now william shatner is on to his next big project, the release of his new book called " boldly go." shatner respects on the key events from his 91 years of life focusing on our fragile bond with nature and celebrating the joy that comes from always being open to learning new things. william shatner joins us now. >> that sounded really good. i'd like to be worthy of that introduction. >> well -- >> you are. >> and you are. >> mr. shatner, i read some headlines -- >> it would be so much better -- "morning joe" deserves bill, i think. >> that's big. that's very big. all right, bill. we'll say bill.

i read a headline about a year ago that said william shatner is 90. i'm like, well, okay, that's a misprint. maybe 75. >> or reverse, 60. >> exactly. >> i read a quote, i loved it so much that i wrote it down of something you said upon turning 90, your realization, you said nothing matters in the end. what goes up must come down. and mika and i saw that quote and we were like, my god, if we had only known that earlier in our life. it really does put things into perspective. it really does suggest where you can stop and look at the wonders of the world and say wow. >> saying wow. that's the critical importance. "boldly goes" is a thought about how the universe is out there,

and purportedly taking care of you, and if you can vibrate in conjunction with the universe by any means, prayer, meditation, blow the tibetan horn, whatever, or being aware of our connection with that vibrating universe, which is also the vibrating earth and the beauty of earth, if you can connect with that, you're living the life i think you're supposed to live. >> i love the different chapters, what you focus on. by the way, you should have so much in common with my family lines. your grandparents are immigrants from eastern europe. >> lithuania. >> yeah. you went to miguel, my father and my mother immigrants from eastern europe, my mother had an incredible affinity for nature. i remember once her taking the time to stop in the middle of a conversation and to pick up a

spider and bring it out the back door of the house and set it free. you have a chapter that says listen to the animals. tell us about it. >> well, everything is trying to communicate with themselves and with the things around them. they're speaking a language that sometimes we get a glimmer of understanding. we hear the fish talk and the whales sing, the dogs bark, the horse giving you the nonverbal signals. the earth is communicating all the time. we've just begun to understand, for example, how trees communicate with each other. not only with pheromones being drifted downwind and saying the bugs are attacking me, make your sap more acidic or whatever it is they do, we understand sending electrical chemical signals around the fungi.

all of a sudden electrical chemical signals among the trees are the same electrical chemical signals in the dendrites in our head. it begs the imagination to the extent in which these 5 billion years of growth, of evolution has brought about the extraordinary beauty and fertility on earth that we are so arrogant that we have begun to destroy it. >> given the age we live in, the culture is so skewed to people much younger than you or i. what have you learned about yourself, your life and living your life over the past decade, since you were 80 years of age? >> it's all -- it all boils down to commonalty. we hear these things, it's over so quickly. it's over so quickly.

it's over so quickly when you subtract the years of growing up, your fragility when you're older. you got 40, 50 years of life. and then you die and essentially it's meaningless. so you got to make those few years count not only for your happiness and awareness. one thing i saw coming down from space was how insignificant this planet is, how insignificant we are on this planet. and yet, we have awareness. we are aware of the awe and wonder. we're aware of our insignificance. i think that's the only entity on earth that thinks that way -- i think that, of course we don't know exactly -- but we're $5 billion years in evolution in this solar system. but the universe is three times -- as far as we know, three times that old.

so other things were happening. what was happening during all that time where other worlds evolved and became more intelligent and our brains are based on survival. so we're this mixture of good and bad. but can you purify over more years? there's so many beautiful, burning questions in our life that far exceed the pettiness of all the things we see around us. >> you know, it's so fascinating, you talk about how insignificant we are not only as a planet but as individuals. that is something that frightens you as a teenager. that would frighten me as a teenager. oh, my god, i'm so small. i'm, like, dust. and yet there's something extraordinarily liberating about that. philosophers have talked about this for centuries that when you recognize your place, when you recognize the insignificance,

when you look at nature and even look at the earth, as you had an extraordinary opportunity to do through humility, that's liberating. talk about that, if you will. >> well, that's the perfect if we were just even less arrogant about we are the keepers of nature -- we're not. we're part of this ongoing thing. when you think of the 5 billion years of evolution and as we speak things are going extint, beautiful things we've never seen, insects. i drove here in los angeles up and down the san joaquin valley recently, making a trip to san francisco and back, and i had one insect splat on my windshield. it's supposed to be -- you can't drive with all the insects that meet their death on their windshield.

one. we're killing everything. and through our arrogance, if we were -- had a thimble full of hmility about our place in nature and our place with other human -- every other part of our endeavor is meaningless when we have an existential threat by our lack of humility. >> so, bill, it was just about a year ago your trip to space, and you talk about the beauty of it and being overwhelmed by it. but i was struck by a word you used, grief. tell us about that dichotomy, moved by the beauty and the grief you felt that trip. >> i've been an ecologist since the book "silent spring," and that was 50, 60 years ago, and i was terribly moved by it and was talking about it even then.

and of course all kinds of voices saying it's not happening. the grief i felt was the beauty that i know the earth is and has and expresses itself all the time. the tree is talking to you when it moves its leaves. dogs bark and tell you things that are meaningful. a man said i was watching my dog looking at the sink, looking, looking at the sink. he'll telling me he's thirsty! and the dog speaking -- how do lions plan an attack on an animal they need to kill to eat? how do they do it without language? there's this whole communication going on in nature that we're so unaware of and it's dying. it's in danger of being extinct. that's the grief. >> you know, the last chapter of the book is entitled "when i'm gone, at and you quite, "i'm

blessed to know that some people will miss me when i'm gone, but more and more i think about what i will miss. i love life, every precious moment of it. i will miss it. i will miss is ton in the sky. i will miss voraciously tearing through the pages of a new book. i will even miss the hideous los angeles traffic because it is part of the miracle of this ineffable world of ours. it's nomt a great part, but it's all part of a rich tapestry, isn't it?" lovely. >> let me ask you about that, because mika noticed, and i noticed, her mom just passed away. she had parkinson's and she was 09 years old. but every morning she woke up and she would hand us books, whether it was steve jobs ebiography or a bob dylan biography. she kept doing her artwork.

mika said one of the things that filled her with awe was the fact that her mom, till the very end, she was not ready to die, she was not ready to go, she wanted to be here. and that's not something that made me just sad. that's something that made her celebrate the fact that her mother remained so curious. and like you, able to say, wow after seeing all the things that you've seen. talk about where that comes from, that curiosity that still springs from you at 91. >> i was recently given an award for lifetime achievement what does that do? lifetime achievement. just by living and breathing and talking to each other like we are now. that's an award right there. what is a lifetime achievement? what i have achieved in a life that deserves an award that the person i meet on the street

shouldn't have? and if it was any -- this is what i said accepting the award, if there was anything that i was -- use the word proud but, like, a little self-satisfaction, was this inner child that we have, it purportedly starts around the age of 3 and goes to 7, 8, 9, and then life begins to dull that curiosity, that, oh, what's that, mom? why is the sky blue? i just stumbled. everything about a child is new and fresh and open. if you can cultivate that inner child, don't let it get sour and callused. if you can sustain the, oh, "wow" factor around everything. right now i don't know if you can hear it, my dog is barking. protecting -- i am -- it's his

job. he's there, proudly protecting this thing from you don't know, coyotes -- you never know when a coyote might come. you know? it's a language. it's going on all around us. and to miss it, to miss even when she was trembling, she could hear the sounds of her daughter saying i love you. i mean, love. at the last moment in this documentary on this trip i took into space, jeff bezos hugs me. and i'd been going on about we're nothing but we're aware and that awareness is our gift and then he hugged me. and i thought that's the last key -- love. let us not forget that your mother just was empowered by your love for her.

it was everything. her daughter loved her. and what does that mean? you spent time, you sacrificed. you were everything to her. that made her life viable. now that i've reduced you to tears -- >> oh, my lord. yes, you have. thank you. >> thank you so much. it's been so great having you here. and your dog is actually trying to tell you've spoken with us long enough, now pay attention to him. >> the new book is entitled "boldly go: reflections on a wife of awe and wonder." william shatner, or bill, thank you very, very much, for being on. >> thank youl. >> thank you for your kind words. >> i admire your program very much. take care, everybody. >> thank you so much. >> and we peel with right back with much more of "morning joe."

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. fourth hour of "morning joe." boy, what a show it's been today, joe. >> what a show. by the way, what you're looking at right now is the set of "the matrix." either that or los angeles at 6:00 a.m. >> mm-hmm. >> so glad to have you with us on the west coast and all across the country. you know, mika, it has been a great show. hoda --